Illegal Aliens

[Reportanddeport]

Flower shops buy greenery from people for use in bouquets. I used to sell the florist I worked for clippings from the trees in my own yard. So it's possible that your trees are being harvested by a thief who is then selling your tree parts.

I suggest you take a picture of your trees, and maybe bring in a leaf sample to the different florists in your area and see if they are buying your tree parts, and maybe you can get them to stop it.

If massive amounts of clippings are disappearing, then you might even be losing out to a wholesale florist supply service.

I find it very unlikely that someone would regularly steal from your for their own personal arrangements.

I would not be surprised if illegal aliens are doing this.


A month or so ago we noticed that several of the young maples along the front of our property looked irregular in shape. On closer inspection we discovered many branches had been cut off, leaving only stubs. This cutting of branches has continued to happen despite lights and a sign, and at last count five trees had lost 38 limbs.

A few more branches are taken every week, and now very high branches are going, necessitating the use of a stepladder. The trees are grotesque and may not survive, and at $200 a tree and four years of growth, this is a huge loss for us.

These are small branches, an inch or so at the large end, and 4 to 8 feet long. The trimmings are taken away, so we’re pretty sure it’s not just malicious vandalism, but that someone is using them for some purpose. (Even the sheriff thought this whole thing was pretty weird.) The leaves had just started to turn, so we’re guessing that maybe someone wanted them for (large) decorations.

So who is doing this? There’s obviously a market somewhere. Maybe an interior decorator or florist. If you see, in your wanderings, pots full of long maple branches with small red leaves, perhaps in a restaurant, winery or hotel, please let us know. Our overwhelming emotion is sadness — that in the wonderfulness of West County there exists a person who would come onto private property and disfigure small trees.

[Magick]

I find it very disturbing that you would assume that what you call "illegal aliens" are guilty of something you have no evidence of. This kind of prejudice is divisive and hurtful.
I find the term illegal alien offensive and know that much of the problem with poverty in Mexico and other poor countries are caused by our trade policies.
This request to report and deport is a sad commentary on the current level of compassion in our culture. I hope you reconsider your assumptions and find it in your heart to try to understand and to research the true cause of so many poor coming to the US.
Peace, Magick


Flower shops buy greenery from people for use in bouquets. I used to sell the florist I worked for clippings from the trees in my own yard. So it's possible that your trees are being harvested by a thief who is then selling your tree parts.

I suggest you take a picture of your trees, and maybe bring in a leaf sample to the different florists in your area and see if they are buying your tree parts, and maybe you can get them to stop it.

If massive amounts of clippings are disappearing, then you might even be losing out to a wholesale florist supply service.

I find it very unlikely that someone would regularly steal from your for their own personal arrangements.

I would not be surprised if illegal aliens are doing this.

[shellebelle]

Hmmmmm

So are you more concerned about other countries homeless and poor and suggesting we simply ignore our own?

How about we fix our own countries poverty before we worry about others? Let their country worry about their people.




I hope you reconsider your assumptions and find it in your heart to try to understand and to research the true cause of so many poor coming to the US.
Peace, Magick

[vdeva]

Thank you Magick for your reply....I was saddened and disturbed by this statement as I read it too.

vdeva


I find it very disturbing that you would assume that what you call "illegal aliens" are guilty of something you have no evidence of. This kind of prejudice is divisive and hurtful.
I find the term illegal alien offensive and know that much of the problem with poverty in Mexico and other poor countries are caused by our trade policies.
This request to report and deport is a sad commentary on the current level of compassion in our culture. I hope you reconsider your assumptions and find it in your heart to try to understand and to research the true cause of so many poor coming to the US.
Peace, Magick

[Reportanddeport]

"Illegal aliens" are people in America without legal permission to be here and work here. I understand people find this term offensive, but I can't figure out why that is. When someone is in America illegally, they are frequently up to no good. You don't know where they came from nor what their real name is nor what their history is nor who they've hurt nor what crimes they've committed. And since illegal aliens can't work here, legally, then they will commit crimes, like stealing someone's tree branches to sell as greenery to a florist. Sonoma County has 10,000-15,000 illegal aliens, and many of them are illegal vendors. So I would not be surprised to see them doing whatever it takes to suck money out of America. I figure since America is a sovereign country, we can make whatever kind of deals we want to. And because other countries sign for their part of the deal too, it doesn't somehow mean that We The People have to then surrender our U.S.A. to those individuals who choose to break our laws. The true causes of people sneaking into America is for the same reason as any other theft: YOU GOT IT, THEY WANT IT, IF YOU DON'T STOP THEM, THEY'RE GONNA TAKE IT. I am poor too, so tell me where you live so I can come rob your house.

I find it very disturbing that you would assume that what you call "illegal aliens" are guilty of something you have no evidence of. This kind of prejudice is divisive and hurtful.
I find the term illegal alien offensive and know that much of the problem with poverty in Mexico and other poor countries are caused by our trade policies.
This request to report and deport is a sad commentary on the current level of compassion in our culture. I hope you reconsider your assumptions and find it in your heart to try to understand and to research the true cause of so many poor coming to the US.
Peace, Magick

[vdeva]

If you want to talk about people who break our laws then why not mention the illegal actions of the current President & Vice who stole the elections and then broke so many laws that their administration will live in infamy.

The history of workers coming across that southern border is long and complicated. It is so because the need for cheap Mexican and Central American labor has pre-empted the need for protection against these people....also because these folks are primarily hard-working and honest. The hatefulness that you don’t even see in your response is really upsetting. Its this kind of racist scapegoating that brought about the oppression of Jews in Europe.


"Illegal aliens" are people in America without legal permission to be here and work here. I understand people find this term offensive, but I can't figure out why that is. When someone is in America illegally, they are frequently up to no good. You don't know where they came from nor what their real name is nor what their history is nor who they've hurt nor what crimes they've committed. And since illegal aliens can't work here, legally, then they will commit crimes, like stealing someone's tree branches to sell as greenery to a florist. Sonoma County has 10,000-15,000 illegal aliens, and many of them are illegal vendors. So I would not be surprised to see them doing whatever it takes to suck money out of America. I figure since America is a sovereign country, we can make whatever kind of deals we want to. And because other countries sign for their part of the deal too, it doesn't somehow mean that We The People have to then surrender our U.S.A. to those individuals who choose to break our laws. The true causes of people sneaking into America is for the same reason as any other theft: YOU GOT IT, THEY WANT IT, IF YOU DON'T STOP THEM, THEY'RE GONNA TAKE IT. I am poor too, so tell me where you live so I can come rob your house.

[vdeva]

You know this is one of my button pushers and I want to say again that the targeting of "illegal aliens" is a scary development that has brought about so many problems for good, hardworking really poor people....as well as keeping our focus on "Blaming the Victim" instead of watching those who are bringing this country to its knees.

The people closest to me who came across the border without papers were the 2 sisters I helped raise who came with their family when they were 2 and 3 years old. My family gave so much of ourselves to help them raise themselves out of their poverty and get them green cards so they wouldn't fear deportation.

It is so difficult to immigrate here, if you really knew what folks go through, you would understand more how people suffer because of this system. The financial costs are tremendous and so many cannot bear this burden. And as Magick said the trade policies of NAFTA, GATT and the WTO have burdened people all over the world. People come to survive and make enough to return $ to help others survive at home or return with enough to survive when they go back.

Global Exchange offers a border education trip that you could join and learn more about the border and the new militarization taking over there.

Now one of these sisters is in service cleaning up hurricane damaged areas on the Gulf. The other is a bright, young woman working with families like the one she grew up in, giving and supporting people that she honors and shows the way. Like many immigrants before them they will be wonderful citizens.

I hope you can imagine that your thoughts against these people have been manufactured by those who want you to look toward where the most vulnerable can be blamed and away from those who need closer watch.


"Illegal aliens" are people in America without legal permission to be here and work here. I understand people find this term offensive, but I can't figure out why that is. When someone is in America illegally, they are frequently up to no good. You don't know where they came from nor what their real name is nor what their history is nor who they've hurt nor what crimes they've committed. And since illegal aliens can't work here, legally, then they will commit crimes, like stealing someone's tree branches to sell as greenery to a florist. Sonoma County has 10,000-15,000 illegal aliens, and many of them are illegal vendors. So I would not be surprised to see them doing whatever it takes to suck money out of America. I figure since America is a sovereign country, we can make whatever kind of deals we want to. And because other countries sign for their part of the deal too, it doesn't somehow mean that We The People have to then surrender our U.S.A. to those individuals who choose to break our laws. The true causes of people sneaking into America is for the same reason as any other theft: YOU GOT IT, THEY WANT IT, IF YOU DON'T STOP THEM, THEY'RE GONNA TAKE IT. I am poor too, so tell me where you live so I can come rob your house.

[Reportanddeport]

Because I was suggesting a possible explanation for the disappearance of tree branches, and I figured Bush and Cheney wouldn't have anything to do with it.

You're right that the history is complicated. But it need not be. It's going to take a fence and enforcement of our laws to set clearcut ideas of what behavior is acceptable and what is not. I think the weird, gray area of something being illegal but not enforced is terribly confusing and hurtful for EVERYONE. Lack of enforcement of any law makes you wonder why the law exists at all. And then SELECTIVE enforcement of a law is TERRIBLY UNFAIR.

No need for labor pre-empts ANYONE'S need for protection. Just because someone wants someone for cheap doesn't mean everyone else is going to surrender their security. Maybe YOU'RE willing to do it, but I'M not, and neither are millions of others. JOB ONE of government is and should be TO PROTECT, NOT provide cheap labor.

It seems to me that if the people of Mexico and Central America were primarily honest and hard-working, then those countries would already have stable, representative governments, instead of highly stratified societies with deeply corrupt governments. And I find it extremely naive that you would imply that people of those countries have some special blessing of honesty and exceptional work habits. It seems to me that the reason for good work habits has everything to do with your desire to keep a job, NOT where you come from. It seems to me that if they were so honest, they would have gotten permission to enter America, instead of sneaking in.

You're right, I DON'T see hatefulness in my posts, I just see the reality of what it takes to secure a COUNTRY. But it seems to me that YOU HATE AMERICA, or you're just furious that someone would disagree with you, or you have no concept whatsoever of "country".

There's absolutely NOTHING, "racist", about securing ANYTHING. That's a wall in your mind that you've yet to learn to see around.




If you want to talk about people who break our laws then why not mention the illegal actions of the current President & Vice who stole the elections and then broke so many laws that their administration will live in infamy.

The history of workers coming across that southern border is long and complicated. It is so because the need for cheap Mexican and Central American labor has pre-empted the need for protection against these people....also because these folks are primarily hard-working and honest. The hatefulness that you don’t even see in your response is really upsetting. Its this kind of racist scapegoating that brought about the oppression of Jews in Europe.

[Reportanddeport]

YOU'RE telling ME that it's hard to get someone in the country??? REEEEEEAAALLYYYYY??? It took me 2 1/2 years to get my wife in the country, 2 trips to The Philippines, 2 trips to Canada, thousands of dollars, a stack of forms and documents a foot high and a couple gallons of tears:
Dear Senator Feinstein,
I am writing to request that you help me by forcing the Immigration and Naturalization Service to actually deliver service.
Although the INS has caused a multitude of problems for me, I realize your time is limited, so I will make my first and foremost specific request immediately:
Please force the INS California Service Center to actually answer the phone. I have been calling them almost every day, several times a day, for the past two weeks, and the line is ALWAYS busy when I call during business hours. There is absolutely NO way I can talk to the INS about my case. If you call this number, 949 831-8427, you will see that it is ALWAYS busy during the day. If you call that number at night, you can get information about cases, and a recording that says to call and talk to a person during business hours. Yet they either intentionally keep their phone off the hook during the day, or there are so many people calling that number, that it can't work. The INS must be forced to actually provide a service to the people it takes money from, and it should serve the American people. People should be allowed to get information about their cases.
My case with the INS is for all intents and puposes DEAD, because the INS will not talk to me about it. The National Service Center knows nothing about my case, and they refer me to the California Service Center, yet the California Service Center does not actually do anything for me. I even wrote to the California Service Center almost a year ago, and they never answered me. My government is doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for me.
Although I filed a petition with the INS in March of 2001, and paid a fee, the INS has not answered the petition, nor will they tell me anything about the status of it.
I have started a regular campaign of calling the National Service Center daily, to remind them that the California Service Center number is not working, in the hopes that the message will get to someone somewhere, and that maybe some day someone will make the phone work, and I can maybe talk about my case, and maybe get to live with my wife some day. The National Service Center then gave me another number to call, which does not work either, and I believe is not even a legitimate number, but is a recording pretending to be a real person, and it hangs up on you automatically. That number is 949 389-3007.
I married a Philippine citizen in The Philippines in January of 2001, and petitioned her with an I-130 in March of 2001. The INS sent a receipt in March of 2001, and said that it will take 815 to 825 days (that's 2 1/4 YEARS) for them to process the petition. I then sent them a letter immediately, asking why it would take so long, but they never answered it.
The ending of this cruel waiting period is my next request of you:
Please stop this U.S. Government practice of attempting to limit immigration by making people wait so long to be re-united with their loved ones, that the marriages and families are destroyed. The United States might be successful in destroying my marriage, because I have cried so much in missing my wife, that I have contemplated divorce. People can't just hang on forever, while YEARS of their lives are wasted in lonliness, while they battle an indifferent government. The emotional trauma of loving and missing someone deeply, while you fight your own country to be with your loved one is devastating. If you want to limit immigration, simply pass a law banning international marriages, and then everyone will know not to get their hopes up.
Please allow U.S. Citizens to bring their foreign spouses into the U.S. as soon as they are married. I should be able to start any criminal background checks in advance of marrige, and then simply use passports and a marriage certificate after marriage to immediately bring my spouse into the U.S.
There is now suposedly a new type of visa, called a "K-3" visa, which will supposedly allow me to bring my wife into the U.S. sooner than after 2 1/4 years of waiting, but I have not applied for it yet, because I do not actually believe it will work, because the INS will not even talk to me about how they have screwed up my current case. My original petition might have been rejected already, and I have no way of finding out.
A few nights ago, I was successful in reaching the California Service Center after hours, which is nothing but a recorded message. But it did say that in June of 2001, they sent me a notice saying that they needed more information to process my application with. But I never received anything from the INS. So for the past ten months, the INS has apparently done nothing with my petition, while they failed to notify me of anything. Now, if I can ever get through to the INS, I might find out what they need, or that they have rejected my petition because they think I abandoned the case. But I never abandoned the case, I simply never hear from the INS, and I don't know what they are doing. And if my petition has not been rejected, then perhaps I will have ten more months tacked on to the 2 1/4 years I have to wait for my application to be looked at, or maybe I will have to start the entire waiting period over again.
I could have started calling The California Service Center a year ago, to see what they were doing, but I was told by the National Service Center not to call, because the California Service Center would have no information for me until my case was processed. And since the National Service Center didn't even know the answers to my questions, and so-called "Information Officers" hung up on me when I politely asked for information, I thought nothing would be accomplished by calling the California Service Center. But of course I have been going crazy, contemplating divorce, and missing my wife desparately, so I started calling a few weeks ago.
If I had not been told by the people at the National Service Center not to call the Califonia Service Center, then I might have found out many months ago that the INS needed more information from me, and I would not be writing this letter now.
The INS is a disaster of an agency. On separate phone calls to the National Service Center, I have been told that the processing time for my I-130 petition is 2 1/4 years, 1 year, 6 to 9 months, 1 month, and 3 to 31 months. I am told a different thing every time I call, and never am I told the same thing. Sometimes I am told not to call the California Service Center, because my waiting period is not up yet, and they would have no information for me. Other times I am told to call anyways. Yet the number NEVER works. One person at the National Service Center after I told her that I know the INS needs more information from me, suggested I do absolutley nothing for 2 1/4 years, and then see if the INS tries to contact me again.
At the INS, nobody knows what they are doing, what the rules are, what the waiting periods are, what the waiting periods are for, nor will they talk to me about my case.
I have no hope that without your help, the U.S. Government will ever do anything fair and responsible to talk to me and tell me what they are doing with my petition, and if I will ever get to have my wife.
PLEASE help me find out what is going on with my case. PLEASE make the INS DO SOMETHING.
Enclosed is a copy of my I-130 receipt, and a copy of the letter I sent to the INS a year ago.

Sincerely, Jeffrey Wilson
[email protected]
707 XXX-XXXX
XXX XXXXXXX Dr.
XXXXXXX, CA 9XXXX

<hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;">
MTLXXXXXXXXXX


To: U.S Department of State
From: Petitioner, Jeffrey Wilson
Re: Petitioner's change of address; and notice of discrepancy concerning beneficiary's name.
Case no. MTLXXXXXXXXXX
Date: 3-28-03

Approximately six weeks ago, I told the NVC by telephone, of my change of address. However, to insure that my change of address is properly recorded, and that mail concerning my wife's case is sent to the correct address, I thought I should send you this written notice.
I, Jeffrey Wilson, am the petitioner for my wife, XXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX Wilson. Please send all mail concerning this case to:
<center>Jeffrey Wilson
XXXX XXXXXXX Ave. Apt. A
XXXX, Ca 9XXXX</center> I recently reviewed the most recent correspondence you have sent me, and I noticed that you refer to my wife as "XXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX Wilson". This is acceptable to me, because it is indeed the name given on her Philippine passport, but is is different than the name I have previously provided to you. I gave you her name as "XXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX Wilson", because when I first petitioned her through the INS, the Philippine government had not yet updated her passport, and I did not know that they would insist on using her maiden name as her middle name. Because of the differences in Philippine and American tradition, I am actually confused as to what is XXXXX XXXXX'X legal middle name. I don't know of any U.S. law that recognizes a maiden name as a legal middle name, but I wish it to be known that "XXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX Wilson" and "XXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX Wilson" are one and the same person.
For the sake of continuity, I am going to have my wife keep using the name, "XXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX Wilson", on the forms she sends to you. But I will have her refer to herself as "XXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX Wilson" if you explicitly instruct her to do so.

<hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"> This is to report a change of address for both my self and my wife, and to inquire about the status of my case. My old address is Jeffrey Wilson, XXX XXXXXXXXX Dr., XXXXXXX, CA 9XXXX.
My new address is Jeffrey Wilson, XXX XXXXXXXXXXX Dr., XXXXXXXXX, CA 9XXXX.
My wife's old address is XXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX Wilson, XX XXXX St., XXXXXXX XXXXXXX, XXX. XXXX, XXXXXXXX XXXX, Philippines 1XXX.
My wife's new address is XXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXX Wilson, XXX-XXXX XXXX XXXXX, British Columbia, Canada XXX XXX.
I submitted an I-130 application with you in March of 2001. You responded that month with a receipt saying that it will take 815 to 825 days to process the application.
I wrote to you in April of 2001, and asked why it will take so long to process my application. You never responded to that letter.
I have been trying every day, many times a day, for the past two weeks, to call you at 949 831-8427, to inquire about my case, but the number is always busy during business hours. A few days ago I called in the middle of the night, and listened to your automated recording about my case. In your recording, you said that in June of 2001, you sent me a notice requesting more information. I never received any notice from you asking for more information. If I had received such a request, I would have provided you with any information you needed.
I have not abandoned my case with you. I hope you have not denied my petition, based on an assumption that I don't care to answer you.
I do not know what you are doing with my case, nor has the INS given me a working way to inquire about it.
Please make your phone system work, so I can call you and find out what you are doing with my case. Or please write me and tell me what is the status of my case. I wish to know if you have denied my petition, or if it has been processed at all. Since you say you asked me for more information in June of 2001, I wish to know if you have denied my petition because you think I don't want to co-operate; or if you have not denied my petition, will you add an additional ten months to my 825 day waiting period? And if you have denied my petition, am I permanently barred from ever getting my wife into the United States?

Jeffrey Wilson
XXX XXXXXXXXXXX Dr.
XXXXXXXXX, CA 9XXXX

<hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;">
Dear INS,
according to to the instructions on the receipt for my I-130 petition, I should call you to inquire about the status of my case. So I have been doing that every day, sometimes several times a day, for the past month, but it is always busy during the day. However, I was able to use your automated system at night, which said that you sent me a request for more information in June of 2001. But I never received any request for information, and I surely would have responded had I received it. I love my wife very much, and I would co-operate with you to the utmost, if it would cause you to let her come home to me.
I mailed you a written request in April of 2001, which you never responded to. I asked to know why it will take 815 to 825 days to process my petition.
I mailed you another written request for more information in the first week of April, 2002, which you have not responded to either. I told you about my address change, and I asked about the status of my case.
I talked to an immigration attorney who told me that you are processing the I-130 petitions of U.S. citizens in 8-10 months. However it has been 13 months since I petitioned my wife, and I still have heard nothing from you. I am indeed a U.S. citizen, as I proved with the birth certificate I submitted with my I-130 petition, so I am deeply distressed at your ignoring my letters, and not making your phone system work. My marriage with my wife is very real, and my separation from her is much too painful for me to simply forget about my petition. I can not and will not forsake my wife, simply because you will not answer me, but I am at a loss as to why you ignore me, and how to motivate you to respond to me.
I will not let this case die, or drop this issue with you, and you will continue to hear from me with increasing frequency, until I get a response to my petition and/or letters. We are talking about my wife, the person I love very dearly, as you may love YOUR spouse, who is separated from me as if she is in prison, because she is locked away from me by your inaction.
Everything about my petition and case is legal and straightforward, and I want to know what you are doing with it. Please tell me what is the status of my case, and tell me whatever information is needed to finish processing it.
Jeffrey Wilson
XXX XXXXXXX Dr.
XXXXXXX, CA
707 XXX-XXXX
707 XXX-XXXX




You know this is one of my button pushers and I want to say again that the targeting of "illegal aliens" is a scary development that has brought about so many problems for good, hardworking really poor people....as well as keeping our focus on "Blaming the Victim" instead of watching those who are bringing this country to its knees.

The people closest to me who came across the border without papers were the 2 sisters I helped raise who came with their family when they were 2 and 3 years old. My family gave so much of ourselves to help them raise themselves out of their poverty and get them green cards so they wouldn't fear deportation.

It is so difficult to immigrate here, if you really knew what folks go through, you would understand more how people suffer because of this system. The financial costs are tremendous and so many cannot bear this burden. And as Magick said the trade policies of NAFTA, GATT and the WTO have burdened people all over the world. People come to survive and make enough to return $ to help others survive at home or return with enough to survive when they go back.

Global Exchange offers a border education trip that you could join and learn more about the border and the new militarization taking over there.

Now one of these sisters is in service cleaning up hurricane damaged areas on the Gulf. The other is a bright, young woman working with families like the one she grew up in, giving and supporting people that she honors and shows the way. Like many immigrants before them they will be wonderful citizens.

I hope you can imagine that your thoughts against these people have been manufactured by those who want you to look toward where the most vulnerable can be blamed and away from those who need closer watch.

[Sara S]

You are poor in so many ways; you have my sympathy.


"Illegal aliens" are people in America without legal permission to be here and work here. I understand people find this term offensive, but I can't figure out why that is. When someone is in America illegally, they are frequently up to no good. You don't know where they came from nor what their real name is nor what their history is nor who they've hurt nor what crimes they've committed. And since illegal aliens can't work here, legally, then they will commit crimes, like stealing someone's tree branches to sell as greenery to a florist. Sonoma County has 10,000-15,000 illegal aliens, and many of them are illegal vendors. So I would not be surprised to see them doing whatever it takes to suck money out of America. I figure since America is a sovereign country, we can make whatever kind of deals we want to. And because other countries sign for their part of the deal too, it doesn't somehow mean that We The People have to then surrender our U.S.A. to those individuals who choose to break our laws. The true causes of people sneaking into America is for the same reason as any other theft: YOU GOT IT, THEY WANT IT, IF YOU DON'T STOP THEM, THEY'RE GONNA TAKE IT. I am poor too, so tell me where you live so I can come rob your house.

[Dark Shadows]

Let me tell you a story. The Kickapoo tribe was driven by the Cavalry from areas that span Missouri, Kansas and Oklahoma into Mexico. What law gave them the right to do this? To take a people who originated from an area and drive them into a place that was unfamiliar and not very adaptable to their culture, i.e. they were used to hunting certain animals for food were not found in Mexico and used to growing certain vegetables that would not grow in that climate. They adapted, but the damage done to the culture was sometime irrepairable.

As a young girl, my grandmother, a Kickapoo would cross the border on a bridge that spanned the Rio Grande for a penny toll. She had no birth certificate and there was no record of which side of the border she came from. I can remember her being afraid to go to Mexico for fear they would detain her at the border for not having proof of citizenship and that she would never get home. She had cousins there who she dreamed of visiting, but could not.

What right has a people, or the US government to divide an ancestral homeland by an artificial border that separates families, for the sake of keeping this country free of undisirable, poorer individuals who had the misfortune (or maybe the fortune) to have been born on the wrong side of the border? The answer is that this is unconscionable.





"Illegal aliens" are people in America without legal permission to be here and work here. I understand people find this term offensive, but I can't figure out why that is. When someone is in America illegally, they are frequently up to no good. You don't know where they came from nor what their real name is nor what their history is nor who they've hurt nor what crimes they've committed. And since illegal aliens can't work here, legally, then they will commit crimes, like stealing someone's tree branches to sell as greenery to a florist. Sonoma County has 10,000-15,000 illegal aliens, and many of them are illegal vendors. So I would not be surprised to see them doing whatever it takes to suck money out of America. I figure since America is a sovereign country, we can make whatever kind of deals we want to. And because other countries sign for their part of the deal too, it doesn't somehow mean that We The People have to then surrender our U.S.A. to those individuals who choose to break our laws. The true causes of people sneaking into America is for the same reason as any other theft: YOU GOT IT, THEY WANT IT, IF YOU DON'T STOP THEM, THEY'RE GONNA TAKE IT. I am poor too, so tell me where you live so I can come rob your house.

[Barry]

...

I find it very unlikely that someone would regularly steal from your for their own personal arrangements.

I would not be surprised if illegal aliens are doing this.


When someone is in America illegally, they are frequently up to no good. You don't know where they came from nor what their real name is nor what their history is nor who they've hurt nor what crimes they've committed. And since illegal aliens can't work here, legally, then they will commit crimes, like stealing someone's tree branches to sell as greenery to a florist. ...The true causes of people sneaking into America is for the same reason as any other theft: YOU GOT IT, THEY WANT IT, IF YOU DON'T STOP THEM, THEY'RE GONNA TAKE IT. I am poor too, so tell me where you live so I can come rob your house.


Santa Rosa is NOT worth living in. It is infested with illegal aliens and strange, filthy, scary, homeless people roaming the streets. ...See the filthy anchor babies playing in the street as their parents ignore them. ...Don't expect to meet decent people or make friends in Santa Rosa, because most people are cold and uncaring.



You're right, I DON'T see hatefulness in my posts...

Well, I have to agree with you on one count, Jeff (ReportAndDeport) I believe you don't see the hatefulness in your posts. The problem is that the rest of us do and it's unpleasant and even scary.

This board is about Connecting Conscious Community and it is for the progressive community. Given that you can't see the hatefulness in your posts I wouldn't count you among the conscious community. And from your immigration views as well as your work for Virgina Fuller (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=52704#post52704), it doesn't seem that you are on the progressive end of the spectrum either.

You are welcome to express your views politely and respectfully. However you are not welcome to hijack threads to press your point about "illegal aliens". I have split your post and the ensuing comments from the "Tree Mutilation (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=39260#post39260)" thread into this new Illegal Aliens thread. Please confine your comments about this topic to this thread.

If you clear prejudice continues to come out I will have to ask you to leave.

[Braggi]

YOU'RE telling ME that it's hard to get someone in the country??? REEEEEEAAALLYYYYY??? It took me 2 1/2 years to get my wife in the country, 2 trips to The Philippines, 2 trips to Canada, thousands of dollars, a stack of forms and documents a foot high and a couple gallons of tears:...

With that history one might think you would have some compassion for an impoverished, ignorant, non-English speaking immigrant coming to this country because it's too dangerous for them to remain in their homeland.

Kind of amazing you don't.

-Jeff

[Lenny]

When someone is in America illegally, they are frequently up to no good.

Most I see are up to working, so we disagree.


You don't know where they came from nor what their real name is nor what their history is nor who they've hurt nor what crimes they've committed.

Well, I don't think they want to have your baby, nor enter into some other close relationship with you. They want a job. Kind of simple, no? Or so I thought.


And since illegal aliens can't work here, legally, then they will commit crimes, like stealing someone's tree branches to sell as greenery to a florist. Sonoma County has 10,000-15,000 illegal aliens, and many of them are illegal vendors. So I would not be surprised to see them doing whatever it takes to suck money out of America. I figure since America is a sovereign country, we can make whatever kind of deals we want to. And because other countries sign for their part of the deal too, it doesn't somehow mean that We The People have to then surrender our U.S.A. to those individuals who choose to break our laws. The true causes of people sneaking into America is for the same reason as any other theft: YOU GOT IT, THEY WANT IT, IF YOU DON'T STOP THEM, THEY'RE GONNA TAKE IT. I am poor too, so tell me where you live so I can come rob your house.

Now you got me spinning. You are poor, from your own admission, so you wish to come and steal, as "they" all have no good intentions, now you wish to do the same!?
Please, don't come to my home as I am sure I've got something you want. But if you it is to be so, then....well, I've been in the poky before.
As for those that want to work and make money and are here illegally prior to you painting ALL with your broad brush of illegality and their all being thieves and criminals, I believe that it was Anatole France that said something about, ""The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread."
:2cents:

[OrchardDweller]

Hmmmmm

So are you more concerned about other countries homeless and poor and suggesting we simply ignore our own?

How about we fix our own countries poverty before we worry about others? Let their country worry about their people.

It's starting to get very bad here in the US. Doubt if the people in these videos will get much help from the govt as they are too busy bailing out their corporate buddies.

BBC: Tent cities spring up in L.A.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnnOOo6tRs8

Southern California Shanty Town / Tent City
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmeHiFZUWtE

[OrchardDweller]

BTW I love meeting people of other cultures. That's why I spent so much of my life traveling. And I welcome immigration. But I am against illegal immigration. I believe immigrants whether from the south or the north should have their criminal record and health records checked, as is required for immigrants from any country. I guess these beliefs make me a racist in some people's view. But I know that many Mexican-Americans feel the same way I do.

Did you know that the US now has cases of leprosy? Many now in Texas. Is it possible that unchecked immigration from third world countries is the cause of third world diseases now being here in the US?

Some may believe that countries shouldn't have borders. But they do - that's the reality. So they have to be dealt with. If the American people do not wish to have borders for our country anymore, we should change the current laws through the vote of the people or through Congress. Ignoring immigration laws and leaving borders wide open isn't a good idea in my opinion.

Ever wonder why the govt leaves the borders wide open during this time when we are supposed to be fearing terrorists? Go to www.youtube.com or to Google and search "North American Union". That should give you a clue.

And while you're at it, research "Aztlan", "Mecha", "La Raza", "La Reconquista", "Plan of San Diego"... We actually saw a gang member looking fellow with a Mecha tattoo on his neck in Santa Rosa. Also saw two guys walking down Graton Road outside of Graton and one was wearing an "Aztlan Warrior" t-shirt. This stuff is for real. I'm told they openly speak about this stuff on the Spanish radio stations. Here's a new ad by the Mexican ad firm Teran...

https://www.worldnetdaily.com/images/absolut.jpg

And here's a photo of one of the numerous billboards which ran in L.A...

https://www.mnforsustain.org/images/immg_ibd_billboard_050505.jpg

And here's a video of a near riot in California when Mexicans took down a US flag and replaced it with a Mexican flag...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y721T9nX0k



Better first look into what you are defending. One's anti "racism" stance may just be feeding a racist machine.

Aztec Al-Qaeda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CaEIKGWe7Q

The interesting thing about all this racist stuff is that it appears to be orchestrated by the U.S.'s Ford Foundation, part of the elite ruling class who are planning to bring in The North American Union and replace our dollar with the Amero. "Divide and Conquer", and "Order Out of Chaos" are their mottos. But that's a whole other subject...

https://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/order_out_of_chaos.jpg

[Braggi]

...
Did you know that the US now has cases of leprosy? Many now in Texas. Is it possible that unchecked immigration from third world countries is the cause of third world diseases now being here in the US?...

I'm more concerned about drug resistant TB and STDs than leprosy, but I thought I'd take the bait here and do a little research with Google News. I did find a lot of articles from Nepal, India, and a few other far off lands (not the places illegal immigrants typically come from).

To read up on leprosy (Hanson's disease) in the US : https://www.huliq.com/52967/update-hansen039s-disease-and-tuberculosis

This I did not know: (from the article) "...
Hansen's Disease (leprosy) is an infectious disease that usually affects the skin, nerves and mucous membranes. It is not a disease that is easily spread. Ninety-five percent of the human population is genetically resistant to the disease (they cannot contract the disease). ..."


So, the vast majority of us could never get it and, as usual, there's not much to worry about. There are not many cases in the US and the number has been stable for several years.

The greatest number of immigrants bringing it into the US are coming from US territories in Micronesia and the Marshall Islands. They are legal immigrants.

https://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=38863

So, it's not what you think.

BTW, I don't support illegal immigration either, but I do realize it's a very complicated subject that can only be dealt with through multiple approaches. It ain't simple and it ain't easy, and that means our politicians aren't well equipped to deal with it since most of them are stupid, incompetent and lazy. (Oops! Did I mean to say that?)

-Jeff

[succubusss]

i would be happy to lie wait for them . i bite

I suggest you take a picture of your trees, and maybe bring in a leaf sample to the different florists in your area and see if they are buying your tree parts, and maybe you can get them to stop it.

If massive amounts of clippings are disappearing, then you might even be losing out to a wholesale florist supply service.

I find it very unlikely that someone would regularly steal from your for their own personal arrangements.

I would not be surprised if illegal aliens are doing this.[/quote]

[OrchardDweller]

I'm more concerned about drug resistant TB and STDs than leprosy, but I thought I'd take the bait here and do a little research with Google News. I did find a lot of articles from Nepal, India, and a few other far off lands (not the places illegal immigrants typically come from).

To read up on leprosy (Hanson's disease) in the US : https://www.huliq.com/52967/update-hansen039s-disease-and-tuberculosis

This I did not know: (from the article) "...
Hansen's Disease (leprosy) is an infectious disease that usually affects the skin, nerves and mucous membranes. It is not a disease that is easily spread. Ninety-five percent of the human population is genetically resistant to the disease (they cannot contract the disease). ..."


So, the vast majority of us could never get it and, as usual, there's not much to worry about. There are not many cases in the US and the number has been stable for several years.

The greatest number of immigrants bringing it into the US are coming from US territories in Micronesia and the Marshall Islands. They are legal immigrants.

https://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=38863

So, it's not what you think.

BTW, I don't support illegal immigration either, but I do realize it's a very complicated subject that can only be dealt with through multiple approaches. It ain't simple and it ain't easy, and that means our politicians aren't well equipped to deal with it since most of them are stupid, incompetent and lazy. (Oops! Did I mean to say that?)

-Jeff



Mexico has had leprosy, we have open borders, and now we have leprosy in Texas. I don't see how anyone can say it doesn't come from south of the border when the people coming in from there aren't being screened.

[MsTerry]

Mexico has had leprosy, we have open borders, and now we have leprosy in Texas. I don't see how anyone can say it doesn't come from south of the border when the people coming in from there aren't being screened.
Can you give us some data to back this up?

[Braggi]

Mexico has had leprosy, we have open borders, and now we have leprosy in Texas. I don't see how anyone can say it doesn't come from south of the border when the people coming in from there aren't being screened.


Well, clearly we have Hanson's disease in the US from other sources, so why wouldn't the poorest people coming from Mexico? (Leprosy is an archaic term so let's say what it really is since most of us are educated, modern people.) I don't doubt it, though it's not in the news, so the numbers are probably quite small, and it's not a highly contagious disease, and it's easily treated, so we have many much greater things to worry about.

Did you know the flu kills over 30,000 people in the US every year?

It's not the "illegal aliens" causing that. Perhaps you could spend your time working on getting flu shots to old people instead of bashing yourself over workers who are here. Get over that one.

If you really want to stop illegal immigration, support investment in Mexico. A lot of big companies are doing it. A lot of "conservatives" are outsourcing their labor to Mexico. If we supported humane labor standards and wages in Mexico, they wouldn't be coming here in such great numbers. If we invested in "green" technology in Mexico, affordable housing in Mexico, enforced environmental laws in Mexico, it would be a better place for "them" to live.

Get off your ass and quit complaining. Improve conditions in Mexico and Central America and the people will stay there.

-Jeff

PS. ReportandDeport, stop fuming and start thinking. I'm not talking about giving US tax money to Mexico. I'm talking about investment. That is, you loan money and they pay it back with interest. There is a lot of potential in investing in Mexico. We should do more of it. That is, private investing by private investment groups. Not IMF and World Bank crap that just further impoverishes people. Those institutions of theft, coercion and blackmail should be disbanded and all debts "forgiven."

[Zeno Swijtink]

Can you give us some data to back this up?



A new case of leprosy, also known as Hansen’s disease, is diagnosed somewhere in the world every 60 seconds, but in the United States outbreaks remain rare. Only about 130 new cases are discovered each year, mostly among immigrants from areas such as Mexico, India or the Caribbean, where the disease is more widespread.

Over 100 cases were found in immigrants last year, more than double the number in 2000, and, while the number of cases is still comparatively small, some researchers believe the trend could lead to leprosy spreading to the U.S.-born population.

https://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2005-03-15/whitford-americanleprosy

Compare this with the 32,000 death because of car crashes (2006 data)

https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

[MsTerry]

Compare this with the 32,000 death because of car crashes (2006 data)

https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
Well, actually I couldn't find anything about people dying of leprosy.

At present, only about two dozen new cases of leprosy are found in US-born patients each year, a number that has not changed for decades, said Steve Pfeifer, head of statistics and epidemiology at the National Hansen’s Disease Program.And it sounds like we didn't eradicate it at home either.

[Reportanddeport]

Deported Immigrant Returns to the O.C. To Peep and Flash
https://www.associatedcontent.com/article/295756/deported_immigrant_returns_to_the_oc.html
In the 23160 block of Saguaro Street in Orange County, a 12 year-old boy was showering at his home, when a dark-haired man tapped on the window attempting to get his attention. He immediately ran to his mother, who then called the police. Approximately an hour later, a man matching the exact description dropped his pants in front of a woman in the same neighborhood.

Child Rapist Sentenced To Three Consecutive Life Sentences
https://www.wftv.com/news/14801449/detail.html
SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. -- An illegal immigrant, convicted Thursday of raping a 10-year-old Seminole County girl, was sentenced Friday to three consecutive life sentences. Antonio Rosales' sentence was handed down less than 24 hours after he was found guilty.


OC Sheriff: DNA Links Suspect To Freeway Rape
https://www.knbc.com/news/14832662/detail.html
ORANGE COUNTY, Calif. -- A man who allegedly raped a 24-year-old woman whose car broke down on a San Diego freeway was expected to enter a plea Thursday to six felony charges, prosecutors said.
Alejandro Martinez Leyva, 25, is charged with forcible rape, two counts of sexual penetration, sexual assault with the intent to commit rape, dissuading a witness and making a criminal threat.

MORE things you don't want to accept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ahEhcVW7oQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

Now, if you can't tell the difference between mindless racism and information pertaining to threats to your own safety, then I doubt you even have the MENTAL CAPACITY to understand the differences.

[Dark Shadows]

Jeff,

Can I ask why you choose to promote your cause through this website?

Do you understand that in any society or culture there is good and bad, and how unrealistic it is to believe that the person who committed this crime is representative of an entire group of people? Am I wrong in believing that what you find offensive about the "illegal" aliens in this county is not the fact that they have broken a law, but that they speak a different language, and look differently than you? Is there a reason that you chose a story about a man with an hispanic name?

My suggestion to you is to spend some time in an ethnic neighborhood, maybe the Mission District in San Francisco and to see what its like when people are given a chance to live without being hassled about whether they have a green card or not. Look at the great restaurants and businesses that have arisen their hard work and expertise. Look at the pride the people have in their own neighborhoods. Granted, there is crime-but there's crime everywhere. Is the crime caused by an American citizen okay because they're legal?

I find what you write offensive and I don't really think you belong amongst a progressive community. I guess we can always click the Ignore button (if I could only find it). But I don't think that you should be able to use this site to promote something that many of us find offensive. You don't really think you're going to change anyone's mind, do you? Wouldn't it be more fun for you to post on https://www.aryanunity.org/?


Deported Immigrant Returns to the O.C. To Peep and Flash
https://www.associatedcontent.com/article/295756/deported_immigrant_returns_to_the_oc.html
In the 23160 block of Saguaro Street in Orange County, a 12 year-old boy was showering at his home, when a dark-haired man tapped on the window attempting to get his attention. He immediately ran to his mother, who then called the police. Approximately an hour later, a man matching the exact description dropped his pants in front of a woman in the same neighborhood.

Child Rapist Sentenced To Three Consecutive Life Sentences
https://www.wftv.com/news/14801449/detail.html
SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. -- An illegal immigrant, convicted Thursday of raping a 10-year-old Seminole County girl, was sentenced Friday to three consecutive life sentences. Antonio Rosales' sentence was handed down less than 24 hours after he was found guilty.


OC Sheriff: DNA Links Suspect To Freeway Rape
https://www.knbc.com/news/14832662/detail.html
ORANGE COUNTY, Calif. -- A man who allegedly raped a 24-year-old woman whose car broke down on a San Diego freeway was expected to enter a plea Thursday to six felony charges, prosecutors said.
Alejandro Martinez Leyva, 25, is charged with forcible rape, two counts of sexual penetration, sexual assault with the intent to commit rape, dissuading a witness and making a criminal threat.

MORE things you don't want to accept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ahEhcVW7oQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

Now, if you can't tell the difference between mindless racism and information pertaining to threats to your own safety, then I doubt you even have the MENTAL CAPACITY to understand the differences.

[Reportanddeport]

I didn't come to this forum to promote ANYTHING. I didn't even start this thread, I think Barry did.
In fact, this thread was up and running, and then I got about six emails out of the blue, all aimed at me.

So rather than fight a bunch of people over specific emails, I simply gave a sample of what I know. Now you can choose to believe it or ignore it. But you, like many people in this forum, seem to be utterly terrified of it, which I find weird.

Let's see, I'm married to a brown-skinned, Asian immigrant, I've been to The Philippines twice, got married there, been to Canada twice, I live in Hawaii for 1 1/2 years and still own land there, I speak Tagalog and Spanish, but I still need to visit the Mission District in San Francisco to learn culture?

Ito ay ibang salita para sa 'yo. Oo, ako merong tulong mula sa asawa ko, pero halos lahat ay salita ko. Isip ko, ikaw ay sobrang ignorante. Kumuha ka ng translator para ma-intindihan mo ito.

You are so incredibly ignorant to to reality and everything I am and do, and you try to make up for that by pretending I'm going around harassing people and spouting racism and White Supremacy. You live in such a sick, fantasy world of your own making.

"Hispanic name"? You're complaining because I mentioned a Hispanic name? WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON? Where do you think the vast majority of illegal aliens come from? Germany, Poland, France, England or Mexico?

YOU do a search on illegal aliens arrested for crimes and try NOT to find a Hispanic name.
The thing that you find "offensive" about me is that I DISAGREE with you. The substance of what I say is almost irrelevant, but the mere fact that I am a FREE THINKER and not in lockstep with you is a tremendous threat to you.

I never even intended to seriously participate in this forum, I expected to just watch and maybe talk about plants some times. But with SUCH HATE landing in my inbox, I see no reason to not respond.
Just try to let sleeping dogs lie.


Jeff,

Can I ask why you choose to promote your cause through this website?

Do you understand that in any society or culture there is good and bad, and how unrealistic it is to believe that the person who committed this crime is representative of an entire group of people? Am I wrong in believing that what you find offensive about the "illegal" aliens in this county is not the fact that they have broken a law, but that they speak a different language, and look differently than you? Is there a reason that you chose a story about a man with an hispanic name?

My suggestion to you is to spend some time in an ethnic neighborhood, maybe the Mission District in San Francisco and to see what its like when people are given a chance to live without being hassled about whether they have a green card or not. Look at the great restaurants and businesses that have arisen their hard work and expertise. Look at the pride the people have in their own neighborhoods. Granted, there is crime-but there's crime everywhere. Is the crime caused by an American citizen okay because they're legal?

I find what you write offensive and I don't really think you belong amongst a progressive community. I guess we can always click the Ignore button (if I could only find it). But I don't think that you should be able to use this site to promote something that many of us find offensive. You don't really think you're going to change anyone's mind, do you? Wouldn't it be more fun for you to post on https://www.aryanunity.org/?

[Valley Oak]

Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber, Jabber..............


I didn't come to this forum to promote ANYTHING. I didn't even start this thread, I think Barry did.
In fact, this thread was up and running, and then I got about six emails out of the blue, all aimed at me.

So rather than fight a bunch of people over specific emails, I simply gave a sample of what I know. Now you can choose to believe it or ignore it. But you, like many people in this forum, seem to be utterly terrified of it, which I find weird.

Let's see, I'm married to a brown-skinned, Asian immigrant, I've been to The Philippines twice, got married there, been to Canada twice, I live in Hawaii for 1 1/2 years and still own land there, I speak Tagalog and Spanish, but I still need to visit the Mission District in San Francisco to learn culture?

Ito ay ibang salita para sa 'yo. Oo, ako merong tulong mula sa asawa ko, pero halos lahat ay salita ko. Isip ko, ikaw ay sobrang ignorante. Kumuha ka ng translator para ma-intindihan mo ito.

You are so incredibly ignorant to to reality and everything I am and do, and you try to make up for that by pretending I'm going around harassing people and spouting racism and White Supremacy. You live in such a sick, fantasy world of your own making.

"Hispanic name"? You're complaining because I mentioned a Hispanic name? WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON? Where do you think the vast majority of illegal aliens come from? Germany, Poland, France, England or Mexico?

YOU do a search on illegal aliens arrested for crimes and try NOT to find a Hispanic name.
The thing that you find "offensive" about me is that I DISAGREE with you. The substance of what I say is almost irrelevant, but the mere fact that I am a FREE THINKER and not in lockstep with you is a tremendous threat to you.

I never even intended to seriously participate in this forum, I expected to just watch and maybe talk about plants some times. But with SUCH HATE landing in my inbox, I see no reason to not respond.
Just try to let sleeping dogs lie.

[Dark Shadows]

Oh ReportandDeport you are so innocent. You started the thinly veiled racial diatribe with your first post about the ridiculous notion that your bushes were being clipped illegaly by aliens who plan to sell the clippings to florists!

I was responding in part to your reponse to me previously:
I don't support, like or agree with the way the U.S. expanded. But never-the-less, I was born here, I have ZERO guilt about governmental policies I had nothing to do with, and I WON'T TOLERATE your illegal aliens jumping in line ahead of my immigrant wife. If I had to obey the law, then EVERYONE should have to obey the law.

My illegal aliens? Because I have Native grandparents/parents? I just don't think this kind of talk belongs in this space, its only my opinion-maybe someone shares this thought?

Your username clearly displays your intent for being here.

I didn't come to this forum to promote ANYTHING. I didn't even start this thread, I think Barry did.
In fact, this thread was up and running, and then I got about six emails out of the blue, all aimed at me.

So rather than fight a bunch of people over specific emails, I simply gave a sample of what I know. Now you can choose to believe it or ignore it. But you, like many people in this forum, seem to be utterly terrified of it, which I find weird.

Let's see, I'm married to a brown-skinned, Asian immigrant, I've been to The Philippines twice, got married there, been to Canada twice, I live in Hawaii for 1 1/2 years and still own land there, I speak Tagalog and Spanish, but I still need to visit the Mission District in San Francisco to learn culture?

Ito ay ibang salita para sa 'yo. Oo, ako merong tulong mula sa asawa ko, pero halos lahat ay salita ko. Isip ko, ikaw ay sobrang ignorante. Kumuha ka ng translator para ma-intindihan mo ito.

You are so incredibly ignorant to to reality and everything I am and do, and you try to make up for that by pretending I'm going around harassing people and spouting racism and White Supremacy. You live in such a sick, fantasy world of your own making.

"Hispanic name"? You're complaining because I mentioned a Hispanic name? WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON? Where do you think the vast majority of illegal aliens come from? Germany, Poland, France, England or Mexico?

YOU do a search on illegal aliens arrested for crimes and try NOT to find a Hispanic name.
The thing that you find "offensive" about me is that I DISAGREE with you. The substance of what I say is almost irrelevant, but the mere fact that I am a FREE THINKER and not in lockstep with you is a tremendous threat to you.

I never even intended to seriously participate in this forum, I expected to just watch and maybe talk about plants some times. But with SUCH HATE landing in my inbox, I see no reason to not respond.
Just try to let sleeping dogs lie.

[Valley Oak]

Yeah, that's right. His username does seem to say a lot about the 'man,' doesn't it. Check it out: Report and Deport the god damn, !@#$%^& illegal aliens!

Gotcha!

I promise to 'report and deport' all of those filthy, nasty, vile, repulsive, illegal aliens who are taking advantage of Amerikkka! They're like viruses, aren't they?

Thank you for your beautiful, racist contribution to the list. We really need more people like you around and in office. But wait! We DO have his type in office. The current occupant of the White House is building his very own 'Berlin Wall' to keep these disgusting little rodents from infiltrating our great nation and generating more wealth. We just love sending immigration agents chasing them out of the cars they sleep in and then confiscating what little they have from the money they earned working very hard for.

Heck, it just might be thanks to the illegal immigrants that will help keep the U.S. from sinking into a recession (created by the current occupant of the White House) and keeping Social Security afloat twenty years from now!

Thank you for your love, understanding, and contribution,

Edward


Oh ReportandDeport you are so innocent. You started the thinly veiled racial diatribe with your first post about the ridiculous notion that your bushes were being clipped illegaly by aliens who plan to sell the clippings to florists!

I was responding in part to your reponse to me previously:
I don't support, like or agree with the way the U.S. expanded. But never-the-less, I was born here, I have ZERO guilt about governmental policies I had nothing to do with, and I WON'T TOLERATE your illegal aliens jumping in line ahead of my immigrant wife. If I had to obey the law, then EVERYONE should have to obey the law.

My illegal aliens? Because I have Native grandparents/parents? I just don't think this kind of talk belongs in this space, its only my opinion-maybe someone shares this thought?

Your username clearly displays your intent for being here.

[Lenny]

Let me tell you a story. The Kickapoo tribe was driven by the Cavalry from areas that span Missouri, Kansas and Oklahoma into Mexico. What law gave them the right to do this? To take a people who originated from an area and drive them into a place that was unfamiliar and not very adaptable to their culture, i.e. they were used to hunting certain animals for food were not found in Mexico and used to growing certain vegetables that would not grow in that climate. They adapted, but the damage done to the culture was sometime irreparable.
What right has a people, or the US government to divide an ancestral homeland by an artificial border that separates families, for the sake of keeping this country free of undesirable, poorer individuals who had the misfortune (or maybe the fortune) to have been born on the wrong side of the border? The answer is that this is unconscionable.

You ask, "what right", and the answer is "the right to kill you". Not a very complicated way to go about things. Not a very complicated people. Might = right.
Has been for more than a week or two.
Sorry, but that is the written history.

For the record: glad they did not succeed.
But it does make life more complicated, I hope!

[Lenny]

Jeff, My suggestion to you is to spend some time in an ethnic neighborhood, maybe the Mission District in San Francisco and to see what its like when people are given a chance to live without being hassled about whether they have a green card or not. Look at the great restaurants and businesses that have arisen their hard work and expertise. Look at the pride the people have in their own neighborhoods. Granted, there is crime-but there's crime everywhere. Is the crime caused by an American citizen okay because they're legal?

Hey, why do you want to send him to my old neighborhood? Besides, he really would get hurt there. His eyes would give him away and the fellas would find and accommodate his fears, at least until he learned.
And sending him away would not really "cure" or help him, so I can't agree much there. After he runs out of hate, and he will as that is the nature: it eats itself up. Then maybe he will dialogue as a human being. Not an easy task for one such as he, but we can always hope.

[phooph]

Haven't you heard about the North American Union?`
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA

And it's new currency, the Amero?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98


BTW I love meeting people of other cultures. That's why I spent so much of my life traveling. And I welcome immigration. But I am against illegal immigration. I believe immigrants whether from the south or the north should have their criminal record and health records checked, as is required for immigrants from any country. I guess these beliefs make me a racist in some people's view. But I know that many Mexican-Americans feel the same way I do.

Did you know that the US now has cases of leprosy? Many now in Texas. Is it possible that unchecked immigration from third world countries is the cause of third world diseases now being here in the US?

Some may believe that countries shouldn't have borders. But they do - that's the reality. So they have to be dealt with. If the American people do not wish to have borders for our country anymore, we should change the current laws through the vote of the people or through Congress. Ignoring immigration laws and leaving borders wide open isn't a good idea in my opinion.

Ever wonder why the govt leaves the borders wide open during this time when we are supposed to be fearing terrorists? Go to www.youtube.com or to Google and search "North American Union". That should give you a clue.

And while you're at it, research "Aztlan", "Mecha", "La Raza", "La Reconquista", "Plan of San Diego"... We actually saw a gang member looking fellow with a Mecha tattoo on his neck in Santa Rosa. Also saw two guys walking down Graton Road outside of Graton and one was wearing an "Aztlan Warrior" t-shirt. This stuff is for real. I'm told they openly speak about this stuff on the Spanish radio stations. Here's a new ad by the Mexican ad firm Teran...

https://www.worldnetdaily.com/images/absolut.jpg

And here's a photo of one of the numerous billboards which ran in L.A...

https://www.mnforsustain.org/images/immg_ibd_billboard_050505.jpg

And here's a video of a near riot in California when Mexicans took down a US flag and replaced it with a Mexican flag...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y721T9nX0k



Better first look into what you are defending. One's anti "racism" stance may just be feeding a racist machine.

Aztec Al-Qaeda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CaEIKGWe7Q

The interesting thing about all this racist stuff is that it appears to be orchestrated by the U.S.'s Ford Foundation, part of the elite ruling class who are planning to bring in The North American Union and replace our dollar with the Amero. "Divide and Conquer", and "Order Out of Chaos" are their mottos. But that's a whole other subject...

https://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/order_out_of_chaos.jpg

[davin]

Reading over this thread, it seems that we could learn something from latin america, they been calling it neo-liberalism for a minute now, we haven't been listening. The governments been shifting to the hands of corporations since the 80's here, and for latin america thats aint nothing new (i.e. Ford Motors having torture chambers in their factories for union organizers in the 70's). We could hoot and holler all day about corruption in Mexico but we need to start pointing out the corrupters, and they the color green, 3 piece suits, wolves in wolves clothing, borderless. Mexico has an illigitamite conservative president thru a fraudluent election, and bush was the first to confirm him (as well as funneling funds). It seems funny that "patriots" here talk about mexicans making change in Mexico, cuz whenever the people do rise up over there, they coming "from below and to the left", and those bullets and Apache helicopters that fall on them weren't manafactured over there. Ever heard of 'Plan Mexico'? The bottom line for a hollow government is profit for corporations, dont get it twisted, and though we might all have different expectations from a government, this is a trend that has been promoted by Milton Friedman and the real real conservatives for some time now. NAFTA wasn't voted on by poor people, we aint politicians but we suffer the consequence. Immigration is a logical and unfortunate consecuence of these types of policies, but bashing the poor?! damn, thats a low blow knowing full well the policy comes from the top. This trend towards small government in the North is what has led to South Americas turn towards the left, and though some may not like it, if they were to keep going to the rightwing, they'd be too similar to Mexico (which has the largest diaspora on the globe).

As for researching 'Plan of San Diego', wasn't that some post-Mexican Revolution 1917 business?? damn. As for 'Aztlan', that were the Aztecs migrated from before settling on Lake Tenochtitlan (Mexico City), and is generally considered the Southwest United Sates. MEChA, you should definatley worry about their subversive taco sales on college campus's across the country, as well as the fact they trying to get young Raza into college. Yes, Raza. Thats what we call ourselves in our spanish, no too big a deal. La Reconquista, these are the types of fears you might conjure up when you rely on Youtube as the most relevant source of news and information. If you saw a MEChA tattoo on a young man that scared you, perhaps the fact that he was an educated gangster was cause for alarm (MEChA being a student organization), but maybe its cause not to judge the book by its cover. I think its important to read books, not video clips or soundbites from the Empires talking heads, and damn, I hope I never again spend 20 precious minutes responding to some blog type bull on a listserve.

[Reportanddeport]

This kind of nonsense is preaching to the choir of the "Blame America First" crowd, but it's utterly meaningless to Joe 6-pack who doesn't know or care about the alleged history of Latin America.

Corporations profit from illegal aliens, then buy the government to keep the borders open, to let more illegal aliens in, to work for corporations, who keep the cycle going.

The perpetual whining from communists about the poor people provides the PERFECT SUPPORT FOR THE VERY CORPORATIONS THAT EXPLOIT THE POOR PEOPLE.

America will NOT be secure and beneficial to AMERICAN CITIZENS until AMERICAN CITIZENS stand up for AMERICA, regardless of race, color or political affiliation.

America CAN not and WILL not save the world. We need to SAVE OUR COUNTRY.

You want to reduce the power of corporations? Then do it by denying them an endless supply of cheap, foreign, illegal labor.




Reading over this thread, it seems that we could learn something from latin america, they been calling it neo-liberalism for a minute now, we haven't been listening. The governments been shifting to the hands of corporations since the 80's here, and for latin america thats aint nothing new (i.e. Ford Motors having torture chambers in their factories for union organizers in the 70's). We could hoot and holler all day about corruption in Mexico but we need to start pointing out the corrupters, and they the color green, 3 piece suits, wolves in wolves clothing, borderless. Mexico has an illigitamite conservative president thru a fraudluent election, and bush was the first to confirm him (as well as funneling funds). It seems funny that "patriots" here talk about mexicans making change in Mexico, cuz whenever the people do rise up over there, they coming "from below and to the left", and those bullets and Apache helicopters that fall on them weren't manafactured over there. Ever heard of 'Plan Mexico'? The bottom line for a hollow government is profit for corporations, dont get it twisted, and though we might all have different expectations from a government, this is a trend that has been promoted by Milton Friedman and the real real conservatives for some time now. NAFTA wasn't voted on by poor people, we aint politicians but we suffer the consequence. Immigration is a logical and unfortunate consecuence of these types of policies, but bashing the poor?! damn, thats a low blow knowing full well the policy comes from the top. This trend towards small government in the North is what has led to South Americas turn towards the left, and though some may not like it, if they were to keep going to the rightwing, they'd be too similar to Mexico (which has the largest diaspora on the globe).

As for researching 'Plan of San Diego', wasn't that some post-Mexican Revolution 1917 business?? damn. As for 'Aztlan', that were the Aztecs migrated from before settling on Lake Tenochtitlan (Mexico City), and is generally considered the Southwest United Sates. MEChA, you should definatley worry about their subversive taco sales on college campus's across the country, as well as the fact they trying to get young Raza into college. Yes, Raza. Thats what we call ourselves in our spanish, no too big a deal. La Reconquista, these are the types of fears you might conjure up when you rely on Youtube as the most relevant source of news and information. If you saw a MEChA tattoo on a young man that scared you, perhaps the fact that he was an educated gangster was cause for alarm (MEChA being a student organization), but maybe its cause not to judge the book by its cover. I think its important to read books, not video clips or soundbites from the Empires talking heads, and damn, I hope I never again spend 20 precious minutes responding to some blog type bull on a listserve.

[Reportanddeport]

Stop Global Corporations from Sponsoring Illegal Immigration! BOYCOTT ABSOLUT (https://www.boycottabsolut.com/) Friends of ALIPAC:
Americans for Legal Immigration PAC administers the NIIBC (National Illegal Immigration Boycott Coalition) which we built last year to boycott Bank of America for giving credit cards to illegal aliens (www dot bankofamericaboycott dot com).
ALIPAC is proud to have set the bar with the largest coalition efforts to date in our movement.
After consulting with our friends and allies that represent the approximately 100 organizations in the NIIBC, we have launched a national boycott of Absolut Vodka products.

[Braggi]

Stop Global Corporations from Sponsoring Illegal Immigration! BOYCOTT ABSOLUT (https://www.boycottabsolut.com/) ... [snip] ... we have launched a national boycott of Absolut Vodka products.

I have no problem supporting your boycott since I've never bought Absolut and I don't plan to. Also, when B of A bought our bank, we dumped the credit card, but I doubt your efforts will make much of a difference.

In any case, I support cleaning up the immigration red tape and I don't think many would argue that point. They could start by fully staffing support positions that you, Reportanddeport, found so dismally ineffective when you tried to get help.

If it was safer and easier to get legal, I'm sure more would.

I'm not very worried about losing California to Mexico. Once the kids grow up here they become "US-ified and I think few are interested in returning to Mexico in any way. I'm more concerned about our Government gradually dissolving the borders with "Free Trade" agreements.

What ever happened to treaties?

-Jeff

[Melodymama]

Stop Global Corporations from Sponsoring Illegal Immigration! BOYCOTT ABSOLUT (https://www.boycottabsolut.com/) Friends of ALIPAC:
Americans for Legal Immigration PAC administers the NIIBC (National Illegal Immigration Boycott Coalition) which we built last year to boycott Bank of America for giving credit cards to illegal aliens (www dot bankofamericaboycott dot com).
ALIPAC is proud to have set the bar with the largest coalition efforts to date in our movement.
After consulting with our friends and allies that represent the approximately 100 organizations in the NIIBC, we have launched a national boycott of Absolut Vodka products.

Thank you for identifying the organization you represent. It deserves some study. I am offended that you are so adamant and aggressive in your writing. I see the work you are doing and I wonder how you manage your anger in person. If it exudes from you so freely as it does in the writing, you may never get the respect you deserve in your job. Anger this flagrant is rarely just about the present, and often betrays a violent past or abusive past. There are many wonderful people around here. Most of us are not naive, and while we see many problems, we also focus on the positive people and activities in our lives to keep a balance. I wish you well, and I wish you would keep silent on this site until you are here longer and can understand this community more clearly. In the meantime, I will ignore your posts and I encourage Barry to monitor your posts carefully as it seems you are unable to contain your angry energy.

[MsTerry]

Yeah, you're right on
I think we should grab all those Aliens, throw them into their spaceship and tell them to go back where they came from!!!
I WANT AMERICA FOR REAL AMERICANS!!!
Let's clean up this place!!
If it ain't red, it's gonna be dead!
It is time that we get rid of those Asians, Caucasians, Blacks and all other kind of imported crap.
Who's going first?


This kind of nonsense is preaching to the choir of the "Blame America First" crowd, but it's utterly meaningless to Joe 6-pack who doesn't know or care about the alleged history of Latin America.

Corporations profit from illegal aliens, then buy the government to keep the borders open, to let more illegal aliens in, to work for corporations, who keep the cycle going.

The perpetual whining from communists about the poor people provides the PERFECT SUPPORT FOR THE VERY CORPORATIONS THAT EXPLOIT THE POOR PEOPLE.

America will NOT be secure and beneficial to AMERICAN CITIZENS until AMERICAN CITIZENS stand up for AMERICA, regardless of race, color or political affiliation.

America CAN not and WILL not save the world. We need to SAVE OUR COUNTRY.

You want to reduce the power of corporations? Then do it by denying them an endless supply of cheap, foreign, illegal labor.

[davin]

wow, reportanddeport has some of the best arguments I've ever seen, the capital letters really hammer the main points home, especially when he capitalizes AMERICA, that really makes me proud. His equating communists with private corporate interest really made a lot of sense, and when he calls on citizens to "stand up", I really felt inspired and clear about what needs to be done. We must stand.

[Valley Oak]

I'M CLIMBING ON BOARD TOO!!! LET'S TAKE AMERIKKKA BACK FROM THE TRASH! LET'S PUT AMERIKKKA BACK ON ITS PEDESTAL FROM WHERE BUSH JR. KNOCKED HER DOWN FROM! LET'S GET REALLY RACIST LIKE IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS AND KICK EVERYONE OUT OF THIS COUNTRY WHO IS NOT A REAL OR TRULY PATRIOTIC AMERICAN! THIS IS BECOMING A PATRIOTIC MOVEMENT STARTED RIGHT HERE IN THE WACCO LIST!

THE PRIDE IS BACK! BACK IN AMERIKKKA! WE ARE UNSTOPPABLE NOW!

EDWARD!

FUCK!


wow, reportanddeport has some of the best arguments I've ever seen, the capital letters really hammer the main points home, especially when he capitalizes AMERICA, that really makes me proud. His equating communists with private corporate interest really made a lot of sense, and when he calls on citizens to "stand up", I really felt inspired and clear about what needs to be done. We must stand.

[PeriodThree]

Hi,

I am sort of confused by your message. You say you are offended that he is adamant and aggressive in his writing. But being adamant and aggressive seem like positive attributes in creating compelling argument.

And in reality, dismissing someone because you have interpreted their writing as meaning they are 'angry' is quite literally the quintessental ad hominem attack.

I don't think that his anger has any bearing on the rightness (or wrongness!) of his position, and so attacking him as it appears you do because you don't like the tone of his writing seems to me to be a deeply abusive act on your part.

I assume that you will disagree with my conclusion that your behavior towards him is deeply and horribly abusive and inappropriate. But it truly is my honest opinion.

I strongly believe that publicly shaming someone, which is how I read your actions here, because of the tone of their writing is an aggressive and truly violent and wrong action which destroys the chance of connection and community.

OTOH, I have had a recent wonderful exchange with another person in which we both realized that our interpretations of the words of the other were basically completely and totally opposite to what we meant, so I must assume that you are not a 'bad' person or anything, but I just need to let you know how I interpreted your words.

But seriously, he made an argument in favor of a position. You ignored his argument in favor of attacking him for what you perceive is his 'anger.' That really and truly is a classic ad hominem attack, which is one of the classic logical fallacies. Making this attack in public, as opposed to sending it to him privately, feels, to me, like an intentional attempt on your part to shame him. And honestly, I really really really hate it when people ignore issues in favor of publicly shaming other folks.

OTOH, and perhaps I am near to out of hands :-), I can imagine you having totally benign motives. All I can do is to emphasize that your message felt very very very bad, and mean, and shaming, and aggressive to me, and it wasn't even directed at me!

Cheers,
Rich


I am offended that you are so adamant and aggressive in your writing. I see the work you are doing and I wonder how you manage your anger in person. If it exudes from you so freely as it does in the writing, you may never get the respect you deserve in your job. Anger this flagrant is rarely just about the present, and often betrays a violent past or abusive past. There are many wonderful people around here. Most of us are not naive, and while we see many problems, we also focus on the positive people and activities in our lives to keep a balance. I wish you well, and I wish you would keep silent on this site until you are here longer and can understand this community more clearly. In the meantime, I will ignore your posts and I encourage Barry to monitor your posts carefully as it seems you are unable to contain your angry energy.

[Zeno Swijtink]

A Day without a Mexican is a great comedy that details the havoc that would be created by the project that Ratonandselldown seems to have made so central to his identity that he took it on as his name.

https://www.adaywithoutamexican.com/

[Reportanddeport]

No, I don't represent ALIPAC, I only work with them and support them. You're "offended"? OK, do your thing, take it however you want. Yes, I am adamant because of all the bullshit I had to go through getting my wife into the country. How I would have loooooooooved to have Maria with me those 2 1/2 years we were separated, even if it was illegal, just knowing that there would have been no consequences for the law breaking. When you can SEE and EXPERIENCE the immigration process firsthand, then see millions of others making an absolute MOCKERY of what you did, it tends to make you adamant.

But I don't know what you mean by "aggressive". I'm not forcing anything on anyone. I like free speech and I just DON'T WORRY about what I say. If you choose to be offended, my life will still go on. I'm not gonna cry just because others do.

How do I manage my anger? I have been shaped by hundreds of highly stressful experiences in my life that have taught me that anger is not always necessary.

No, it's not so much "anger" I see in myself, as it is strength, dedication and commitment.

I only want the respect of people that I respect. I mean, if George Bush or Albert Fish or Joe Stalin really admired me, what would I care?

YOU see "anger", while I see TOUGHNESS in myself. I rarely get actually angry, but it does sometimes happen. To me, anger should have a CONSTRUCTIVE PURPOSE. Maybe you're just weak is all.

Well, a violent past is not necessarily a bad thing. It just depends on how and why that violence was used.

You wish that I would keep silent? Well that's really so very kind and friendly of you to say such a thing. I can feel the :heart: and "positiveness" coming out of you.

Yes, yes, I KNOW I'm being very carefully monitored. I'm much too dangerous to be trusted around weak minds.
And WE'RE watching you too........:smkdev:




Thank you for identifying the organization you represent. It deserves some study. I am offended that you are so adamant and aggressive in your writing. I see the work you are doing and I wonder how you manage your anger in person. If it exudes from you so freely as it does in the writing, you may never get the respect you deserve in your job. Anger this flagrant is rarely just about the present, and often betrays a violent past or abusive past. There are many wonderful people around here. Most of us are not naive, and while we see many problems, we also focus on the positive people and activities in our lives to keep a balance. I wish you well, and I wish you would keep silent on this site until you are here longer and can understand this community more clearly. In the meantime, I will ignore your posts and I encourage Barry to monitor your posts carefully as it seems you are unable to contain your angry energy.

[Valley Oak]

Dear R&D,

I don't know exactly what happened with you and your wife regarding getting her legal residency. I will tell you a little about our situation. When I sojourned in Europe for ten years, I met my wife, who is still a Spanish citizen (Spanish from Spain, the country in Europe). We got married in Spain and all of our paperwork was in order because of the Spanish and American authorities' requirements to formalize a nuptial agreement.

When the day came that we decided to come to the States to live, we went to the U.S. embassy in Madrid and they told us everything we had to do in order to go about it the right way. So we followed the rules, jumped all of their hoops (which were a few but not too many), paid about $1,000 in different kinds of administrative fees, medical exams, etc. The entire process took maybe three months, if that.

When we arrived at the airport in the U.S., the authorities were waiting for my wife, took her photograph, and gave her a permanent residence card on the spot, right there in the airport before we boarded another plane that took us across the U.S. to California, which was our final destination. I don't know what happened in your situation but I do know that one thing that governments really hate with a passion is when a foreigner, let's say a tourist, likes it so much that they suddenly decide to stay AND THEN try to do the paperwork to normalize their illegal stay in the country.

We followed the rules. How about you?

Edward


No, I don't represent ALIPAC, I only work with them and support them. You're "offended"? OK, do your thing, take it however you want. Yes, I am adamant because of all the bullshit I had to go through getting my wife into the country. How I would have loooooooooved to have Maria with me those 2 1/2 years we were separated, even if it was illegal, just knowing that there would have been no consequences for the law breaking. When you can SEE and EXPERIENCE the immigration process firsthand, then see millions of others making an absolute MOCKERY of what you did, it tends to make you adamant.

But I don't know what you mean by "aggressive". I'm not forcing anything on anyone. I like free speech and I just DON'T WORRY about what I say. If you choose to be offended, my life will still go on. I'm not gonna cry just because others do.

How do I manage my anger? I have been shaped by hundreds of highly stressful experiences in my life that have taught me that anger is not always necessary.

No, it's not so much "anger" I see in myself, as it is strength, dedication and commitment.

I only want the respect of people that I respect. I mean, if George Bush or Albert Fish or Joe Stalin really admired me, what would I care?

YOU see "anger", while I see TOUGHNESS in myself. I rarely get actually angry, but it does sometimes happen. To me, anger should have a CONSTRUCTIVE PURPOSE. Maybe you're just weak is all.

Well, a violent past is not necessarily a bad thing. It just depends on how and why that violence was used.

You wish that I would keep silent? Well that's really so very kind and friendly of you to say such a thing. I can feel the :heart: and "positiveness" coming out of you.

Yes, yes, I KNOW I'm being very carefully monitored. I'm much too dangerous to be trusted around weak minds.
And WE'RE watching you too........:smkdev:

[handy]

Fred Reed is an American expat who moved to Mexico a few years ago. I think this essay is pretty accurate.

https://www.fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm

Immigration

The Art of Unpolicy



April 7, 2008


To grasp American immigration policy, to the extent that it can be grasped, one need only remember that the United States forbids smoking while subsidizing tobacco growers.

We say to impoverished Mexicans, “See this river? Don’t cross it. If you do, we’ll give you good jobs, a drivers license, citizenship for your kids born here and eventually for you, school for said kids, public assistance, governmental documents in Spanish for your convenience, and a much better future. There is no penalty for getting caught. Now, don’t cross this river, hear?”

How smart is that? We’re baiting them. It’s like putting out a salt lick and then complaining when deer come. As parents, the immigrants would be irresponsible not to cross.

The problem of immigration, note, is entirely self-inflicted. The US chose to let them in. It didn’t have to. They came to work. If Americans hadn’t hired them, they would have gone back.

We have immigration because we want immigration. Liberals favor immigration because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy and international and all, and from a genuine streak of decency. Conservative Republican businessman favor immigration, frequently sotto voce, because they want cheap labor that actually shows up and works.

It’s a story I’ve heard many times—from a landscaper, a construction firm, a junkyard owner, a group of plant nurserymen, and so on. “We need Mexicans.” You could yell “Migra!” in a lot of restaurants in Washington, and the entire staff would disappear out the back door. Do we expect businessmen to vote themselves out of business? That’s why we don’t take the obvious steps to control immigration (a thousand-dollar-a-day fine for hiring illegals, half to go anonymously to whoever informed on the employer).

In Jalisco, Mexico, where I live, crossing illegally is regarded as casually as pirating music or smoking a joint, and the coyotes who smuggle people across as a public utility, like light rail. The smuggling is frequently done by bribing the American border guards, who are notoriously corrupt.

Why corrupt? Money. In the book De Los Maras a Los Zetas, by a Mexican journalist, I find an account of a transborder tunnel he knew of that could put 150 illegals a day across the border. (I can’t confirm this.) The price is about $2000 a person. That’s $300,000 a day, tax-free. What does a border guard make? (And where can I find a shovel?) The author estimated that perhaps forty tunnels were active at any give time. Certainly some are. A woman I know says she came up in a restaurant and just walked out the door. Let’s hear it for Homeland Security: All together now….

The amusing thing is the extent to which American policy is not to have a policy. The open floodgates to the south are changing—have changed, will continue to change—the nature of the country forever. You may think this a good thing or a bad thing. It is certainly an important thing—the most important for us in at least a century. Surely (one might think) it deserves careful thought, national debate, prudence, things like that.

But no. In the clownishness that we regard as presidential campaigning, none of the contenders has much to say on the matter. In a dance of evasion that has become customary, the candidates carefully ignore those matters of most import for the nation, since considering hard questions might be divisive. War, peace, race, immigration, affirmative action, the militarization of the economy, the desirability of empire—these play no part in the electoral discussion. We seem to regard large issues as we might the weather: interesting, but beyond control. It’s linger, loiter, dawdle and fumble and see what happens.

And so, while various conservative groups (not including businessmen) rush out to guard the borders, nice liberal professors in the Northeast hurried learn Spanish to help local illegals settle in. Many people, alienated from the United States by policies and trends they find odious, no longer care. There is no national consensus. The country fractures into a congeries of warring agglomerations and the resulting paralysis manifests itself in drift.

The problem with muddling through is that one may not like what lies on the other side of the muddle. Some day we may look back on the question of immigration and see that it all worked out well in the end and wonder what the fuss was about. Or we may not. No one will be able to charge us with having thought things through.

There is much billingsgate about whether to grant amnesty. The question strikes me as cosmetic. We are not going to round up millions of people and physically throw them across the border. Whether we should doesn’t matter. It’s fantasy. Too many people want them here, or don’t care that they are here, or don’t want to uproot families who have established new lives here. Ethnic cleansing is ugly. Further, the legal Latino population votes. It’s just starting to vote. A bumper crop of Mexican-American kids, possessed of citizenship, are growing headlong toward voting age. These are not throwable-out, even in principle.

People complain that Mexico doesn’t seal the borders. Huh? Mexico is a country, not a prison. It has no obligation to enforce American laws that America declines to enforce. Then there was the uproar when some fast-food restaurant in the US began accepting pesos. Why? Mexican border towns accept dollars. Next came outrage against Mexico because its consulates were issuing ID cards to illegals, which they then used to get drivers licenses. Why outrage? A country has every right to issue ID to its citizens. America doesn’t have to accept them. If it does, whose problem is that?

If you want to see a reasonable immigration policy, look to Mexico. You automatically get a ninety-day tourist visa when you land. No border Nazis. To get residency papers, you need two things (apart from photographs, passport, etc.) First, a valid tourist visa to show that you entered the country legally. Mexico doesn’t do illegal aliens. Second, a demonstrable income of $1000 a month. You are welcome to live in Mexico, but you are going to pay your own way. Sounds reasonable to me.

You want a Mexican passport? Mexico allows dual citizenship. You (usually) have to be a resident for five years before applying. You also have to speak Spanish. It’s the national language. What sense does it make to have citizens who can’t talk to anybody?

It looks to me as though America thoughtlessly adopted an unwise policy, continued it until reversal became approximately impossible, and now doesn’t like the results. It must be Mexico’s fault.
.

[Braggi]

Fred Reed is an American expat who moved to Mexico a few years ago. I think this essay is pretty accurate.

https://www.fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm

Immigration

The Art of Unpolicy
...

A good essay. Thanks Handy for posting that. I would click "Gratitude" but I don't agree with everything the author says. Overall, I like the point that the immigration "problem" is a US problem. If it is to be solved, it will be a US solution. I also think it's so complex an issue that many solutions will be called for.

I wonder if there will be any changes with a new "leader" in the White House?

-Jeff

[alanora]

I understand your frustration with the personal aspects of your ins experience. I do not understand the ease with which blaming and otherness fuel your world. Yes, there are those that cheated to get here, and that infuriates you as you have done it the "right" way and been unable to have your needs met whether re; legislation, or sheer ineptitude, and actually failing to be heard and unable to get any information. About as disempowering an experience as one can get. All this re; someone as near, dear, and essential as your wife....Very frustrating on many levels. The choice to focus your energy on other imported humanity is perplexing when your frustration is with our non-functional system.Your attack and perception of evil on the part of beings from a different man-made category or locale alert me to the workings of your mind as possibly very differently skewed than my own. The self righteousness you exhibit could be a bit off-putting to others, or even frightening. A fence will work here as well as anywhere else a barrier has been erected.....not. Try and enlarge focus if you can to include such ideas as global community, and members of the human race, and equitable distribution of goods and services, and zero waste, and intentional zero growth of population on the planet and explore/consider soul growth/evolution as a possible direction for focus of your tremendous energies. Find something for which you are grateful and remember it often. Please. Thank you. I am sorry, please forgive me, I love you. Mindy


This was just sent to me. No, I didn't make it up. Maybe the vast, racist network of White people who stole North America invented the whole story.

As many as 20 students were involved. She was spit on and assaulted by male Hispanic students. They threatened to rape her, stab her, and kill her. The school staff ordered her to return to class and she not allowed to phone her parents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJSvGapFxmY

[Reportanddeport]

We got married in Jan of 01. I tried to petition her as soon as I got home, but THEN I learned that I had to have had a certain income for the previous 3 years PRIOR to getting married, regardless of what my income at the time was. The INS doesn't tell you what the actual income requirements are, they don't even know, so they refer you to ANOTHER government agency. NOTHING will actually happen on your case until you mail everything in, and unless you have money to buy a consultant, you have to figure everything out on your own, so I had to do it by myself. So in March 01 I thought I had enough forms and tax records and everything and I petitioned her. I got a reply back a month later saying it would take over 800 days to process the petition. I wrote back asking why it would take so long, and they never answered me. I called them to find out, but I was allowed about three questions, then they hung up on me. I called back and they wouldn't answer the phone. With their petition acknowledgment letter, they said no information about the case can by learned by calling the National Service Center, that you have to call the California Service Center. But if you call the CSC during the day, it is ALWAYS busy, so you can NEVER, EVER talk to a real person. The paperwork said you can call the automated system at night, which I did, but it didn't give any relevant info about my petition. So I had no answers. So in desperation, I called the National Service Center to complain and tell them that the CSC doesn't work and won't help, but the NSC couldn't care less, and did nothing but suggest I wait 18 months and just "see what happens". A year went by, and still nothing from the INS. No letters, no phone calls, no way of finding out info about the case. I had all my family members calling the CSC on and off for a year, hundreds of calls trying to get through, but none were ever successful. I met with the phony immigration consultant, Teresa Foster. She was as cold and uncaring as an INS officer, and there was nothing she could do for me any way. I sent about 40 letters to the INS, sometimes sending 5 letters of the same thing per day, but all of them were ignored. I sent a letter to Senator Feinsten, which in itself took six weeks to get a response. I asked Feinstein to look into it. 15 months after I mailed in the petition, I got a letter from the INS saying that they had sent me a letter a year ago asking for a copy of my divorce certificate. But I never got such a letter, and they had ignored all the letters during that first year when I tried to find out what the problem was. These F****** IDIOTS sat on this case for a year and ignored me, then had the nerve to say that I had failed to answer their correspondence. So I had to get a certified copy of the divorce decree from the court and mail it in. Two months later, I got approval of the PETITION ALONE. So the case then moved on to the State Department and another year of problems.

I'M GONNA STOP RIGHT HERE BECAUSE THIS IS UPSETTING ME AND IT'S TAKING TOO LONG. I can continue this in the future if you want.


Dear R&D,

I don't know exactly what happened with you and your wife regarding getting her legal residency. I will tell you a little about our situation. When I sojourned in Europe for ten years, I met my wife, who is still a Spanish citizen (Spanish from Spain, the country in Europe). We got married in Spain and all of our paperwork was in order because of the Spanish and American authorities' requirements to formalize a nuptial agreement.

When the day came that we decided to come to the States to live, we went to the U.S. embassy in Madrid and they told us everything we had to do in order to go about it the right way. So we followed the rules, jumped all of their hoops (which were a few but not too many), paid about $1,000 in different kinds of administrative fees, medical exams, etc. The entire process took maybe three months, if that.

When we arrived at the airport in the U.S., the authorities were waiting for my wife, took her photograph, and gave her a permanent residence card on the spot, right there in the airport before we boarded another plane that took us across the U.S. to California, which was our final destination. I don't know what happened in your situation but I do know that one thing that governments really hate with a passion is when a foreigner, let's say a tourist, likes it so much that they suddenly decide to stay AND THEN try to do the paperwork to normalize their illegal stay in the country.

We followed the rules. How about you?

Edward

[Reportanddeport]

"Blaming and otherness fuel your world"? I have no idea what that means.

If YOU stand in a long line at the grocery store, and you see others ALLOWED to cut in front of you, then WHAT will you do? When you ask the checker what the hell is going on, repeatedly, and they always ignore you, what will you do? When the establishment rules are for you to stand in line and wait your turn, but the rule followers are ignored by that very establishment, what will you do?

But your long, rambling letter with so many incorrect assumptions and lies about how I see the world can not be answered in totality, in part because I can't understand it and also because it's just too nonsensical to waste my time on.



I understand your frustration with the personal aspects of your ins experience. I do not understand the ease with which blaming and otherness fuel your world. Yes, there are those that cheated to get here, and that infuriates you as you have done it the "right" way and been unable to have your needs met whether re; legislation, or sheer ineptitude, and actually failing to be heard and unable to get any information. About as disempowering an experience as one can get. All this re; someone as near, dear, and essential as your wife....Very frustrating on many levels. The choice to focus your energy on other imported humanity is perplexing when your frustration is with our non-functional system.Your attack and perception of evil on the part of beings from a different man-made category or locale alert me to the workings of your mind as possibly very differently skewed than my own. The self righteousness you exhibit could be a bit off-putting to others, or even frightening. A fence will work here as well as anywhere else a barrier has been erected.....not. Try and enlarge focus if you can to include such ideas as global community, and members of the human race, and equitable distribution of goods and services, and zero waste, and intentional zero growth of population on the planet and explore/consider soul growth/evolution as a possible direction for focus of your tremendous energies. Find something for which you are grateful and remember it often. Please. Thank you. I am sorry, please forgive me, I love you. Mindy

[Melodymama]

Reportanddeport wrote: I'M GONNA STOP RIGHT HERE BECAUSE THIS IS UPSETTING ME AND IT'S TAKING TOO LONG. I can continue this in the future if you want.

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --><!-- using waccobburl -->

I cannot imagine how difficult and frustrating this has been. And in the end you have her here with you. You must love her very much to have worked so hard to bring her here. Thank you for sharing this personal story. I would be interested in reading the continuation. Laura

[Valley Oak]

Dear Jeff (Wilson, not Jeff Winter),

I TOTALLY take your side with the horrifying experience and injustice that you have been put through! All of that horse shit the INS put you through is grossly unfair.

I would hire an attorney, although it appears that you were finally able to bring your wife to the States? Very often, the only right thing to do is to contact a lawyer asap, even if it's to set your mind at ease, answer some basic questions about your rights, or to deal with a serious issue such as yours. Too often people make the mistake of thinking that finding an attorney is like using an elephant gun to kill an ant and nothing could be further from the truth. There are legal insurance companies such as ARAG and Prepaid Legal Services that charge $25 a month and make most legal representation affordable.

I certainly hope that your marital life is squared away and that you both are now happy and living together here in the U.S. I would have been absolutely furious! I am sincerely interested in knowing if you have been successful in this.

On another point, I get the feeling that you are directing your anger in the wrong direction. On the surface, at least, despite the fact that your wife is herself an immigrant and you have both endured this repulsive ordeal, you take a very unsympathetic stance towards other immigrants. Why? The only thing that occurs to me is that because your matrimony was wrung through the system in such a barbaric manner on the one hand and then you see other illegal immigrants get 'amnesty' on the other hand, is what is probably eating you up.

If I were you, I would direct my anger towards the U.S. government and this administration in particular for having such a brutal policy towards immigrants such as your wife. It is conservative america that wants a 'zero tolerance' policy towards immigration. Just look at how Republicans boo McCain publicly because he wants to be lenient with immigrants (and I side with him on this notion).

Can you find another line of work? Because I also get the feeling that what you are doing for a living does not let you forget. There is an old term called 'purposeful change' that is for people who have undergone a terrible challenge in life, such as overcoming alcoholism, a death in the family, cancer, etc. Such a person can do a major lifestyle change such as moving to a new home, changing employment, move to another state or country, change a major lifestyle pattern, etc. You might want to consider these things and start putting it behind you. Seeking therapy is another good action to take in your set of circumstances. Another possibility would be for you to become a member of a political action group of some kind or some nonprofit that addresses social injustices such as the one that you were put through.

Peace be with you,

Edward


We got married in Jan of 01. I tried to petition her as soon as I got home, but THEN I learned that I had to have had a certain income for the previous 3 years PRIOR to getting married, regardless of what my income at the time was. The INS doesn't tell you what the actual income requirements are, they don't even know, so they refer you to ANOTHER government agency. NOTHING will actually happen on your case until you mail everything in, and unless you have money to buy a consultant, you have to figure everything out on your own, so I had to do it by myself. So in March 01 I thought I had enough forms and tax records and everything and I petitioned her. I got a reply back a month later saying it would take over 800 days to process the petition. I wrote back asking why it would take so long, and they never answered me. I called them to find out, but I was allowed about three questions, then they hung up on me. I called back and they wouldn't answer the phone. With their petition acknowledgment letter, they said no information about the case can by learned by calling the National Service Center, that you have to call the California Service Center. But if you call the CSC during the day, it is ALWAYS busy, so you can NEVER, EVER talk to a real person. The paperwork said you can call the automated system at night, which I did, but it didn't give any relevant info about my petition. So I had no answers. So in desperation, I called the National Service Center to complain and tell them that the CSC doesn't work and won't help, but the NSC couldn't care less, and did nothing but suggest I wait 18 months and just "see what happens". A year went by, and still nothing from the INS. No letters, no phone calls, no way of finding out info about the case. I had all my family members calling the CSC on and off for a year, hundreds of calls trying to get through, but none were ever successful. I met with the phony immigration consultant, Teresa Foster. She was as cold and uncaring as an INS officer, and there was nothing she could do for me any way. I sent about 40 letters to the INS, sometimes sending 5 letters of the same thing per day, but all of them were ignored. I sent a letter to Senator Feinsten, which in itself took six weeks to get a response. I asked Feinstein to look into it. 15 months after I mailed in the petition, I got a letter from the INS saying that they had sent me a letter a year ago asking for a copy of my divorce certificate. But I never got such a letter, and they had ignored all the letters during that first year when I tried to find out what the problem was. These F****** IDIOTS sat on this case for a year and ignored me, then had the nerve to say that I had failed to answer their correspondence. So I had to get a certified copy of the divorce decree from the court and mail it in. Two months later, I got approval of the PETITION ALONE. So the case then moved on to the State Department and another year of problems.

I'M GONNA STOP RIGHT HERE BECAUSE THIS IS UPSETTING ME AND IT'S TAKING TOO LONG. I can continue this in the future if you want.

[Reportanddeport]

Anger in the wrong direction? So when the trespassers are breaking into your house, and you've ALREADY CALLED THE POLICE and the police just don't care, THEN what do you do? You DON'T take on the trespassers yourself, because that would be "directing your anger in the wrong direction"?

Bush IS my number 1 enemy, but the INS policies were in place BEFORE Bush came into office. Bush was in office for 2 mos when I petitioned Maria. I got married 3 days after Bush was sworn in.

What Bush does is keep the borders open to ALLOW illegal immigration. You may hate Bush for other reasons, but if you love illegal immigration, then BUSH IS YOUR BEST FRIEND. If you love corporate welfare, then BUSH IS YOUR BEST FRIEND. If you like low wages for everyone in the country, then BUSH IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

There's soooooo much that you either don't know, or maybe you're just totally opposed to an independent, sovereign U.S.A., altogether. I don't know where you're coming from.


Dear Jeff (Wilson, not Jeff Winter),

I TOTALLY take your side with the horrifying experience and injustice that you have been put through! All of that horse shit the INS put you through is grossly unfair.

I would hire an attorney, although it appears that you were finally able to bring your wife to the States? Very often, the only right thing to do is to contact a lawyer asap, even if it's to set your mind at ease, answer some basic questions about your rights, or to deal with a serious issue such as yours. Too often people make the mistake of thinking that finding an attorney is like using an elephant gun to kill an ant and nothing could be further from the truth. There are legal insurance companies such as ARAG and Prepaid Legal Services that charge $25 a month and make most legal representation affordable.

I certainly hope that your marital life is squared away and that you both are now happy and living together here in the U.S. I would have been absolutely furious! I am sincerely interested in knowing if you have been successful in this.

On another point, I get the feeling that you are directing your anger in the wrong direction. On the surface, at least, despite the fact that your wife is herself an immigrant and you have both endured this repulsive ordeal, you take a very unsympathetic stance towards other immigrants. Why? The only thing that occurs to me is that because your matrimony was wrung through the system in such a barbaric manner on the one hand and then you see other illegal immigrants get 'amnesty' on the other hand, is what is probably eating you up.

If I were you, I would direct my anger towards the U.S. government and this administration in particular for having such a brutal policy towards immigrants such as your wife. It is conservative america that wants a 'zero tolerance' policy towards immigration. Just look at how Republicans boo McCain publicly because he wants to be lenient with immigrants (and I side with him on this notion).

Can you find another line of work? Because I also get the feeling that what you are doing for a living does not let you forget. There is an old term called 'purposeful change' that is for people who have undergone a terrible challenge in life, such as overcoming alcoholism, a death in the family, cancer, etc. Such a person can do a major lifestyle change such as moving to a new home, changing employment, move to another state or country, change a major lifestyle pattern, etc. You might want to consider these things and start putting it behind you. Seeking therapy is another good action to take in your set of circumstances. Another possibility would be for you to become a member of a political action group of some kind or some nonprofit that addresses social injustices such as the one that you were put through.

Peace be with you,

Edward

[alanora]

When in line at the grocery store and I am cut in on in line, I have a plethora of choices of my actions and thoughts with which to respond. Initially probably thoughts of annoyance or the value of my time might pass through my mind. Hopefully, before I opened my mouth to say anything, I would remember times that I had been in a hurry and asked to go ahead and was grateful my request was honored. There are times I am not in a hurry and I can silently thank the person for keeping me in line just that moment longer enough to avoid an accident or enable a meeting with a friend that other wise might have been missed. It can be an opportunity to observe human behavior in that incident. I could be practicing staying open and expansive vs, tense and angry and been granted a gift. I could be hate filled for the rule breakers and apparent authorities, or I could step back and understand. I could leave, never to shop there again, or I could come back later. I could choose less busy times and/or decide to avoid that checker in the future. I hope that helps clear up my position. In the prior rambling note to you I had been repeating what I thought you had meant, in an attempt to understand you. By "blaming" I was referring to your anger with undocumented folk from other countries as if it was them responsible for your problems, admittedly astoundingly frustrating, with ins. Otherness means looking at someone of another nationality and feeling very different, rather than like a fellow traveler on the road of life. I hope this is more clear. When younger I was more angry like you, but angry with the racists and nationalists rather than the new immigrant. My ancestors emigrated here and I think all but the mexican and native americans did, and each group thought themselves more deserving of citizenship than the next wave.
I do not remember asking you anything. I risked this final message at you, even though you attempted degradation by calling my posting nonsensical and a waste of your time. I hope it has proved clarifying. No reply required, any and all welcome. mindy

"Blaming and otherness fuel your world"? I have no idea what that means.

If YOU stand in a long line at the grocery store, and you see others ALLOWED to cut in front of you, then WHAT will you do? When you ask the checker what the hell is going on, repeatedly, and they always ignore you, what will you do? When the establishment rules are for you to stand in line and wait your turn, but the rule followers are ignored by that very establishment, what will you do?

But your long, rambling letter with so many incorrect assumptions and lies about how I see the world can not be answered in totality, in part because I can't understand it and also because it's just too nonsensical to waste my time on.

[Reportanddeport]

It's not your KNOWLEDGE of a topic that matters to you, it's your FEELINGS about it that give you self-validation. Irrelevant nonsense is OK, as long as you FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT.


When in line at the grocery store and I am cut in on in line, I have a plethora of choices of my actions and thoughts with which to respond. Initially probably thoughts of annoyance or the value of my time might pass through my mind. Hopefully, before I opened my mouth to say anything, I would remember times that I had been in a hurry and asked to go ahead and was grateful my request was honored. There are times I am not in a hurry and I can silently thank the person for keeping me in line just that moment longer enough to avoid an accident or enable a meeting with a friend that other wise might have been missed. It can be an opportunity to observe human behavior in that incident. I could be practicing staying open and expansive vs, tense and angry and been granted a gift. I could be hate filled for the rule breakers and apparent authorities, or I could step back and understand. I could leave, never to shop there again, or I could come back later. I could choose less busy times and/or decide to avoid that checker in the future. I hope that helps clear up my position. In the prior rambling note to you I had been repeating what I thought you had meant, in an attempt to understand you. By "blaming" I was referring to your anger with undocumented folk from other countries as if it was them responsible for your problems, admittedly astoundingly frustrating, with ins. Otherness means looking at someone of another nationality and feeling very different, rather than like a fellow traveler on the road of life. I hope this is more clear. When younger I was more angry like you, but angry with the racists and nationalists rather than the new immigrant. My ancestors emigrated here and I think all but the mexican and native americans did, and each group thought themselves more deserving of citizenship than the next wave.
I do not remember asking you anything. I risked this final message at you, even though you attempted degradation by calling my posting nonsensical and a waste of your time. I hope it has proved clarifying. No reply required, any and all welcome. mindy

[MsTerry]

I don't know where you're coming from.
I have noticed that in most of your reply's.
Do you really think everybody is wrong?
So far, your solutions don't seem to be very effective, do you think it is possible that maybe you are too angry to hear how people are trying to help you?

[OrchardDweller]

Make sure you watch the video till the very end

https://www.aztlan.net/anchor_baby_power.htm

[Valley Oak]

I'm really scared that the Mexicans are taking over our country. Instead of shipping them back with their 'anchor babies,' we should simply start ethnic cleansing like Hitler did with the Jews.

Edward


Make sure you watch the video till the very end

https://www.aztlan.net/anchor_baby_power.htm

[Reportanddeport]

Yes, OF COURSE they're wrong. You either want a legal, orderly immigration process designed to protect the citizens of the receiving country, or you want illegal, disorganized immigration which allows in unknown people and drugs and weapons and criminals.

Whyyyyyyy have immigration laws or ANY law for that matter if you're free to break it at any time? WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT?

Help me out? I've seen almost nothing but people here calling me a "racist" and "angry". I've never expected help from anybody here. I have explained what has happened for the good of the country. I can't make you care about anything, I can only inform you.


I have noticed that in most of your reply's.
Do you really think everybody is wrong?
So far, your solutions don't seem to be very effective, do you think it is possible that maybe you are too angry to hear how people are trying to help you?

[Valley Oak]

I propose that we all put Mr. 'Report & Deport' on our ignore lists. I'm doing so now.

Zeig Heil, R&D!

Edward

[MsTerry]

]Yes, OF COURSE they're wrong. You either want a legal, orderly immigration process designed to protect the citizens of the receiving country, or you want illegal, disorganized immigration which allows in unknown people and drugs and weapons and criminals.
So your point is that if we build a wall along the Mexicxan/American border, in one big swoop we can stop all crime, drugs and weapons?



Whyyyyyyy have immigration laws or ANY law for that matter if you're free to break it at any time? WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT?
Just because we have laws, that doesn't mean the laws are just.
You can ask black people or women what that means if you don't get it.
Or you can look at your own life


Help me out? I've seen almost nothing but people here calling me a "racist" and "angry". I've never expected help from anybody here. I have explained what has happened for the good of the country. I can't make you care about anything, I can only inform you.[/quote]
You need to help me out too, so what do you think would be good for the country? I mean, who is going to do the work? You? Or are we going to import food from China too?

[Braggi]

I propose that we all put Mr. 'Report & Deport' on our ignore lists. I'm doing so now.


I think doing so limits your ability to learn from people who disagree with you. The fact that he appears on this board at all means he has something to teach.

Reportanddeport isn't a troll. He's not here just to piss people off. I believe he has something to work out and he's doing it here. He has a viewpoint to share and even if you don't agree, you can learn something from reading it.

He's part of the community too.

-Jeff

[shellebelle]

I agree and Ed you know you seem rather whimsical with that ignore button yet have you asked "How many people are ignoring me?" All the things you complain about regarding Reportanddeport you are yourself guilty of. Maybe you ought to spend some time learning about yourself through his posts.


I think doing so limits your ability to learn from people who disagree with you. The fact that he appears on this board at all means he has something to teach.

Reportanddeport isn't a troll. He's not here just to piss people off. I believe he has something to work out and he's doing it here. He has a viewpoint to share and even if you don't agree, you can learn something from reading it.

He's part of the community too.

-Jeff

[Melodymama]

...Maybe you ought to spend some time learning about yourself through his posts.Now, Shelly, are you another one of those who thinks that reality is in the eyes of the beholder and that all we see is just a projection of ourselves? I keep thinking I am capable of seeing more, then someone like you reminds me we are all just pigments in our own paintbucket.

And where is the darned IGNORE button? I cannot seem to find it. I just pray that people ignore me when I am tripping myself up trying to be who I think I want to be. Thank you, L

[shellebelle]

You have to do ignore through the members list.

Now I agree when I start doing stupid things friends tend to ignore them which I appreciate but they don't seem to require a button. Or they say things like "shut up now" or they kiss you.

And yes I think we all paint with our personal colors but if we stop to lsiten we can hear others colors and music.



Now, Shelly, are you another one of those who thinks that reality is in the eyes of the beholder and that all we see is just a projection of ourselves? I keep thinking I am capable of seeing more, then someone like you reminds me we are all just pigments in our own paintbucket.

And where is the darned IGNORE button? I cannot seem to find it. I just pray that people ignore me when I am tripping myself up trying to be who I think I want to be. Thank you, L

[Braggi]

...
And where is the darned IGNORE button? I cannot seem to find it. ...


Look at one of your posts. On the left, click on your name (Melodymama).
Choose "View Public Profile" from the drop down menu.

It's there right under your pretty picture on the right.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

...

It's there right under your pretty picture on the right. ...

Can one Ignore one's self?

A Zen conundrum.

-Jeff

[Barry]

...And where is the darned IGNORE button? I cannot seem to find it. ...

See How can I ingore posts from a user? (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19804) in the WaccoBB.net FAQ category (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=105).
(or click the above link).

Not ignoring you,
Barry

[Melodymama]

Can one Ignore one's rself?

A Zen conundrum.

-Jeff
Whoa, Dude, you wrote this as a response to yourself? Deep. You must be very wise. Now I call you Wise'Worm'an.

I feel so witnessed. You, Shellebelle and Big Barry all showed me the way to the ignore button. Little miracles. I am feeling so goooood I may try to crash the WST group tonight. Namaste

[shellebelle]

YES come talk SEX!!! Much more fun than this!!! :heart:




Whoa, Dude, you wrote this as a response to yourself? Deep. You must be very wise. Now I call you Wise'Worm'an.

I feel so witnessed. You, Shellebelle and Big Barry all showed me the way to the ignore button. Little miracles. I am feeling so goooood I may try to crash the WST group tonight. Namaste

[Valley Oak]

WST group? Talk about sex? Am I missing something here? What's it all about? Is it related to Morehouse or the Human Awareness Institute? Poly community? or S.C.?

Edward


YES come talk SEX!!! Much more fun than this!!! :heart:

[shellebelle]

:poof::poof::poof:Bursting your Bubble here Ed, Yes we have a group that meets weekly

Sex Talk Weekly https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34266


WST group? Talk about sex? Am I missing something here? What's it all about? Is it related to Morehouse or the Human Awareness Institute? Poly community? or S.C.?

Edward

[Melodymama]

Boy, have I opened a can of worms. Jeff, being WiseWorman, do you have any advice on how to keep them down on the farm?

[shellebelle]

ROFLMAO - Ya know worms don't go far unless you cast them out for fishing then you never know what they'll bring home but it's rarely the bacon! Though once in a while they catch the early bird but those specials are a thing the past much like the diners that served them!


Boy, have I opened a can of worms. Jeff, being WiseWorman, do you have any advice on how to keep them down on the farm?

[MsTerry]

Yeah, Mykil might show you another hidden button to play with...............


.

I feel so witnessed. You, Shellebelle and Big Barry all showed me the way to the ignore button. Little miracles. I am feeling so goooood I may try to crash the WST group tonight. Namaste

[Reportanddeport]

Maria's petition was approved by the INS in Aug 02, which was 1 yr and 5 mos after I mailed it in. The petition part is only a beginning, where you create a basis for processing a visa. So my case was forwarded to the State Department. But the State Department has it's own hoops for you to jump through and THEY are the ones who look at your tax records, NOT THE INS. So my delaying Maria's petition for the first two months after we were married was completely for NOTHING. I would have petitioned her my first week back in the U.S. had I known that.
I received a packet from the State Dept in about Sept or Oct of 02, which included a visa application and a list of required supporting documents, most of which I had already supplied to the INS the year before. But State wants it's own original copies, so you gotta do the run around again to get ORIGINALS: Birth certificates, Wedding certificates, Passport copies, police records, prison records, tax records, W-2s from employers, proof of current employment, immunization records, an I-864 Afidavit of Support (a legal contract between the sponsor and the government promising to pay back all means-tested welfare payments and food stamps incurred by the immigrant, and this contract must be notarized) as well as several other things that I've since forgotten. And while I was working on that, Maria had to see the U.S.-approved Doctor in Canada which is where she moved to to be near me in Jan 02. So she had to see the Dr and get her immunization shots, which made her very sick, while she was working as a live-in caregiver in Vancouver, B.C. I had quit my job in Santa Rosa in Jan 02 to pick her up at the airport in Vancouver and then live in Washington State, but since my car was full of stuff, the Canadians said I was "immigrating" to Canada, and they wouldn't let me in. So Maria arrived in Canada expecting to see me, but I had to drive back to California to try to get my job back. So Maria got her shots and her chest X-ray and got her family members in The Philippines to mail her police records to her in Canada. So I got all the required documents accumulated in California and mailed them in along with a $475.00 money order for the visa application. But months went by and the State Dept wouldn't give us a visa interview date and they couldn't tell us what the problem was. So eventually the told me that I had not paid for the visa processing. I told them I had, but they told me to prove it or else they wouldn't process the packet. So I had to send a letter to the money order company I had used to pay for the visa, and ask for a copy of the cashed money order. Of course I had to pay for this too, and it added about three weeks to the waiting. Finally, I got the copy of the cashed money order that proved the State Dept had received it, and I faxed them a copy of it. They then said, "Oh yeah, we DO have it", but that they had assigned a different case number on it, because since Maria was Filipina, she was supposed to go back to the U.S. Embassy in The Philippines for her visa interview, even though we were requesting her visa interview in Montreal, Quebec, since she was in Canada. And we had told the State Dept all along that she was in Canada. So this money order screwup burned up about a lot of time, and then Maria got an interview date in June 03 in Montreal. Since she had been in Canada for at least a year, they allowed the interview in Montreal, otherwise she would have had to go back to Manila. On the day of her interview, the doctor at the Embassy in Montreal told her that she won't get her visa, because her blood pressure was too high....since she was nervous about this very important day. So she had to back out on the street and search for a doctor, which she was able to find, so she could get treated for a NON-CONTAGIOUS, NON-COMMUNICABLE condition so she could get her visa. So she got medication, her blood pressure went down, the doctor passed her, she got her interview and her visa and arrived in San Francisco on July 4, 2003. I picked her up wearing the same Filipino barong I got married in.


Reportanddeport wrote: I'M GONNA STOP RIGHT HERE BECAUSE THIS IS UPSETTING ME AND IT'S TAKING TOO LONG. I can continue this in the future if you want.

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --><!-- using waccobburl -->

I cannot imagine how difficult and frustrating this has been. And in the end you have her here with you. You must love her very much to have worked so hard to bring her here. Thank you for sharing this personal story. I would be interested in reading the continuation. Laura

[Reportanddeport]

Walls and fences are very effective in doing what they're designed to do, which is keep unwanted people out of your yard and country. But you want to pretend that they're worthless, to hide the fact that you don't want it for other reasons. No wall or fence will be perfect and keep everyone out, but no one is claiming that they WILL be perfect. But a wall or fence will GREATLY REDUCE the amount of illegal aliens sneaking in.


You need to help me out too, so what do you think would be good for the country? I mean, who is going to do the work? You? Or are we going to import food from China too?

Well, we ALREADY ARE importing food from China. ANYONE who WANTS to do the work or HAS to do the work will do it. The idea that Americans are TOO GOOD to do manual work or that their delicate skin will be harmed by manual work is PURE BULLSHIT. And in fact, the abundance of cheap, illegal labor has stymied mechanical advancements in agriculture. Australia does with machines much of the work that we do with illegal aliens. How about you do something LEGAL for a change? How about you stop putting the price of vegetables over the price of an innocent human life?

[Melodymama]

R&D wrote:".... she got her interview and her visa and arrived in San Francisco on July 4, 2003. I picked her up wearing the same Filipino barong I got married in."

Thank you for this amazing story. Most relationships do not begin with such huge hurdles. Both of you must be very strong and very in love to have endured this. You have proven yourself to be diligent and resourceful. Those traits will serve you and your family well. Respectfully, Laura

[MsTerry]

That is quite a story of persistence, and I am amazed that you want others to go through the same kind of turmoil.
Why not try to get legislation to make things easier?
On the other hand, the INS is on the pursuit of so called mail order brides.
How old are you, Jeff?
And how old is Maria?
Do you think that has anything to do with it?
Certainly some one like you would despise the idea of a sham-marriage?


Maria's petition was approved by the INS in Aug 02, which was 1 yr and 5 mos after I mailed it in. The petition part is only a beginning, ...

[phooph]

Unfortunately Jeff's experience is all to common. I have heard others. It's almost like some sort of hazing process. Let's see if these people are tough enough to be legal immigrants. People have been complaining for years with no improvement. One might even suspect it is purposeful. Meanwhile, a whole bunch of Saudi men were given visas without having to prove anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Express



That is quite a story of persistence, and I am amazed that you want others to go through the same kind of turmoil.
Why not try to get legislation to make things easier?
On the other hand, the INS is on the pursuit of so called mail order brides.
How old are you, Jeff?
And how old is Maria?
Do you think that has anything to do with it?
Certainly some one like you would despise the idea of a sham-marriage?

[Reportanddeport]

Thank you. And you're welcome. :wink: I've since realized that we're pretty strong. Jeff


R&D wrote:".... she got her interview and her visa and arrived in San Francisco on July 4, 2003. I picked her up wearing the same Filipino barong I got married in."

Thank you for this amazing story. Most relationships do not begin with such huge hurdles. Both of you must be very strong and very in love to have endured this. You have proven yourself to be diligent and resourceful. Those traits will serve you and your family well. Respectfully, Laura

[Reportanddeport]

I don't need or want anyone to go through any "turmoil". I only want people to obey the immigration laws that I and millions of others have obeyed.

Legislation? ME? By myself, little nobody, ME? You know how it is: Money talks and bullshit walks. Now, if I couldn't even find someone to help me process the immigration case, then who is going to help me change ANY of the hundreds or thousands of highly complex and interconnected immigration laws? Did you even READ the letter I wrote to Feinstein, complaining about the cruel laws? Do you think she cares? She took 4-6 weeks just to answer a request for help with my case alone. Then another 2 months to ACT on it.
WHO has the power to change immigration laws? Bill Gates, that's who. About two weeks ago he testified at a Congressional hearing about how he needs unlimited H1b visas, for high-tech foreign workers. Did you see the YouTube video where the high tech HR reps were talking about how to KEEP OUT AMERICANS FROM HIGH TECH JOBS AND HOW TO IGNORE APPLICATIONS FROM QUALIFIED AMERICANS?

So no, little nobody ME won't be changing any laws that don't effect me any longer. As it is, our movement to secure the borders and enforce existing immigration laws is a long. hard, grinding, almost fruitless struggle, and that's with a few million or thousand people on the team.

Mail order brides in my opinion are just sex partners for American guys who are willing to buy a poor, foreign girl who is willing to sell her body in exchange for coming to America. If BOTH partners are willing, I don't see a reason to stop it, but nobody should be using fake marriages to get immigrant visas. Though that does happen.
I am 46, Maria is 39.
Sham marriages are very wrong. I support prosecution of Americans who take money to marry an alien.
I don't know why my case took so long and I'll never know. But, I do think that the California Service Center in Laguna Niguel is a seriously screwed up place full of lazy, stupid, incompetent and uncaring people.




That is quite a story of persistence, and I am amazed that you want others to go through the same kind of turmoil.
Why not try to get legislation to make things easier?
On the other hand, the INS is on the pursuit of so called mail order brides.
How old are you, Jeff?
And how old is Maria?
Do you think that has anything to do with it?
Certainly some one like you would despise the idea of a sham-marriage?

[Reportanddeport]

Maybe I'm contributing to Lilian Clark being a double-amputee because I'm focusing on it. Maybe if I didn't think about, she'd have her legs back.
https://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2008/04/12/news/local/doc48004e061cafe654447026.txt
Her picture is here: https://home.pon.net/jeffandmaria/usdoj/lili.jpg
Drunk driver gets eight years for injuring Napa woman
<!-- In-story slideshow script -->
Saturday, April 12, 2008
By MARSHA DORGAN
Register Staff Writer
All eyes in the hushed courtroom turned to the mother of two young boys, a double amputee pushing her wheelchair to the podium to address the convicted man who changed her life forever.
“It’s very difficult to express my feelings,” Lilian Clark said through a Spanish interpreter, crying often and wiping her face with a tissue. “My life has been destroyed. I miss my children. I have to ask other people for help. I am happy I am alive, but I hope my future could be like my past. I thank everyone who has supported me with their prayers. I really need my children, but I can’t take care of them at this time. I just don’t think I can say any more.”<SCRIPT type=text/javascript>var addthis_pub = 'naparegister';</SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="https://s9.addthis.com/js/widget.php?v=10" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>
On Friday, Francisco Pacheco, 24, received the maximum state prison sentence of eight years for hit-and-run and DUI in the crash that injured Clark.
On Feb. 3, Pacheco’s car struck Clark on South Terrace Drive, just after she secured her two sons, ages 4 and 6, in their car seats. She was double-parked and had her vehicle flashers on at the time.
Clark had walked around the rear of her car to get into the driver’s seat when Pacheco drove his 1990 Plymouth over a slight hill and crashed into the back of Clark’s car, pinning her between his front bumper and her rear bumper.
Clark suffered injuries that resulted in the amputation of both her legs above the knees.
At Friday’s sentencing Clark, who is a native of Chile, was accompanied by her husband John Clark and her parents, who have traveled from Chile to take care of their daughter.
Clark’s husband, John, addressed Napa County Superior Court Judge Diane Price.
“This was no accident. Everything leading up to that terrible day was deliberate. ... Pacheco made a deliberate decision to disregard our laws and drive drunk without insurance or a license ... my wife surely would have not lost her legs that day, and my children would have a normal upbringing,” John Clark said.
“Financially we are destroyed, emotionally and physically we are destroyed.”
Although Pacheco did not speak during his sentencing, he did cry frequently, wiping his eyes with tissues.
In addition to the criminal charges, Pacheco faces possible deportation because he is in the country illegally. This is his third DUI arrest.
At the time he injured Clark, he was on probation for a previous DUI. When he was involved in the accident that injured Clark, his blood alcohol was .24 percent, according to Napa County Chief Deputy District Attorney John Goold, three times above the legal limit.
Once outside the courtroom after the sentencing, Lilian Clark hugged her parents and in-laws.
“This part of the tragedy is over. Now I need to concentrate on my children,” she said, as her mother stroked her hair.
Clark is still recovering from the crash and is preparing to be fitted for her prothesis.

[thewholetruth]

I, too, was hit by an illegal alien, head-on at the corner just past Occidental Road on 116, before they widened it. The man was so drunk he got out and climbed up on the grills of our enjoined cars and tried to separate them. My car was totalled, my wife and were not badly injured, and the Illegal Alien suffered from a broken arm. I immediately contacted the DA's office when I learned that the man had a check on him. I asked the DA not to export him until he had made restitution for my loss, as I worked at Vacu-Dry at the time, and my wife at McDonald's, and we weren't making enough money to replace our vehicle. The DA ignored my plea, fixed the man's broken arm and sent him back to Mexico.

My wife is half Mexican, my daughters all 1/4 Mexican, and I love my wife's Hispanic side of the family whom we gather with at least once a year for family reunions. My point is that I'm not prejudiced against Mexicans.

I'm against illegal aliens being allowed to be here, as the cost to me and my family for their medical needs, the crimes they commit, court costs, incarceration costs - none of it should be paid by the American people.

Build the fence and let the National Guard man it. Suddenly, America will become America again. Let Mexicans come here legally, like past generations of immigrants have.

Don


Maybe I'm contributing to Lilian Clark being a double-amputee because I'm focusing on it. Maybe if I didn't think about, she'd have her legs back.
https://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2008/04/12/news/local/doc48004e061cafe654447026.txt
Her picture is here: https://home.pon.net/jeffandmaria/usdoj/lili.jpg
Drunk driver gets eight years for injuring Napa woman
<!-- In-story slideshow script -->
Saturday, April 12, 2008
By MARSHA DORGAN
Register Staff Writer
All eyes in the hushed courtroom turned to the mother of two young boys, a double amputee pushing her wheelchair to the podium to address the convicted man who changed her life forever.
“It’s very difficult to express my feelings,” Lilian Clark said through a Spanish interpreter, crying often and wiping her face with a tissue. “My life has been destroyed. I miss my children. I have to ask other people for help. I am happy I am alive, but I hope my future could be like my past. I thank everyone who has supported me with their prayers. I really need my children, but I can’t take care of them at this time. I just don’t think I can say any more.”<SCRIPT type=text/javascript>var addthis_pub = 'naparegister';</SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="https://s9.addthis.com/js/widget.php?v=10" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>
On Friday, Francisco Pacheco, 24, received the maximum state prison sentence of eight years for hit-and-run and DUI in the crash that injured Clark.
On Feb. 3, Pacheco’s car struck Clark on South Terrace Drive, just after she secured her two sons, ages 4 and 6, in their car seats. She was double-parked and had her vehicle flashers on at the time.
Clark had walked around the rear of her car to get into the driver’s seat when Pacheco drove his 1990 Plymouth over a slight hill and crashed into the back of Clark’s car, pinning her between his front bumper and her rear bumper.
Clark suffered injuries that resulted in the amputation of both her legs above the knees.
At Friday’s sentencing Clark, who is a native of Chile, was accompanied by her husband John Clark and her parents, who have traveled from Chile to take care of their daughter.
Clark’s husband, John, addressed Napa County Superior Court Judge Diane Price.
“This was no accident. Everything leading up to that terrible day was deliberate. ... Pacheco made a deliberate decision to disregard our laws and drive drunk without insurance or a license ... my wife surely would have not lost her legs that day, and my children would have a normal upbringing,” John Clark said.
“Financially we are destroyed, emotionally and physically we are destroyed.”
Although Pacheco did not speak during his sentencing, he did cry frequently, wiping his eyes with tissues.
In addition to the criminal charges, Pacheco faces possible deportation because he is in the country illegally. This is his third DUI arrest.
At the time he injured Clark, he was on probation for a previous DUI. When he was involved in the accident that injured Clark, his blood alcohol was .24 percent, according to Napa County Chief Deputy District Attorney John Goold, three times above the legal limit.
Once outside the courtroom after the sentencing, Lilian Clark hugged her parents and in-laws.
“This part of the tragedy is over. Now I need to concentrate on my children,” she said, as her mother stroked her hair.
Clark is still recovering from the crash and is preparing to be fitted for her prothesis.

[thewholetruth]

"I mean, who is going to do the work?"

Use your head, MsTerry. Legal aliens would do the work.

Don


You need to help me out too, so what do you think would be good for the country? I mean, who is going to do the work? You? Or are we going to import food from China too?

[MsTerry]

"I mean, who is going to do the work?"

Use your head, MsTerry. Legal aliens would do the work.

Don
I am using my head, Don, why don't you join me?
If there was legislation for guestworkers we didn't have to have "illegal" workers. If they were allowed to have a driver's license, they would be able to get insurance, they would be able to put their car in their name. Now they can't even if they want to.

[thewholetruth]

I SAID:
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">donc1955 wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/orangebuttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=56156#post56156)
"I mean, who is going to do the work?"

Use your head, MsTerry. Legal aliens would do the work.

Don
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->YOU SAID: "I am using my head, Don, why don't you join me?"

I don't really have a use for your head, MsTerry, but thank you just the same. LOL

"If there was legislation for guestworkers we didn't have to have "illegal" workers."

Um, we HAVE laws which allow guestworkers, MsTerry. Where have you been? Have you ever heard of a "green card"?

"If they were allowed to have a driver's license, they would be able to get insurance, they would be able to put their car in their name."

If they were here legally, they could get a driver's license, get insurance and put their car in their name. Wake up, sister. It's been going on for decades already!

"Now they can't even if they want to."

ILLEGAL workers can't. LEGAL workers with green cards can.

Don

[MsTerry]

Don,
Here is a direct quote from you



"I mean, who is going to do the work?"

Use your head, MsTerry. Legal aliens would do the work.

Don


And your latest round of intelligent conversation


Um, we HAVE laws which allow guestworkers, MsTerry. Where have you been? Have you ever heard of a "green card"?

Don

Green Cards????????????????? Don?????????????????
they are going to hand out green cards for picking the fields, cleaning houses, construction, landscaping??????????????????
Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a green card even if you are married?
The only guest workers we have right now are for high tech jobs.
Are you suggesting we hand them out to unskilled laborors now? Are you a closet liberal?
You like to run around in circles, does that make you feel like you are chasing someone important?

[thewholetruth]

I have good news and I have bad news for you, MsTerry.

The good news: I'm about to educate you.

The bad news: You're wrong again. Everyone who comes here on a WORK VISA has a green card, MsTerry, whether they are high tech workers or field workers. EVERY LEGAL ALIEN GUEST WORKER has a green card.

Don

[Lenny]

Fact is, we, the great South West, had braceros in the 40's, 50's an early 60's. About 50,000 would come, pick the crops, get the money, and go home, for the most part. Seem to work then.
Problem now, the corporations want them, so they come across. They get a better wage, the corporations charge on the cheap, and folks around here get the services. Kind of like a new slavery! It turns out to be an almost free market system; except for the government money going to them. But then we are so wealthy and spoiled, no body cares!
But I deeply fear for US due to this. The most educated peoples on earth voted for genocidal solution when times got tough for them. :2cents:

[Reportanddeport]

I'M not wealthy and I'm not spoiled. Nor do I suffer from the extreme jealousy and hatred of successul people like so many so-called "Progressives" do.

I fear for America, because so many stoned, hateful and jealous people, and so many spiritually bankrupt people think that impeding America's success will somehow make the world better. I fear for America because "Progressives" won't let America progress to labor self-suffience and energy independence.

I don't worry about a "genocidal solution" because that is b.s. made up by ignorant people and perpetuated by other ignorant poeple to the detriment of ALL of us, even the fools who spew the nonsesne.



Fact is, we, the great South West, had braceros in the 40's, 50's an early 60's. About 50,000 would come, pick the crops, get the money, and go home, for the most part. Seem to work then.
Problem now, the corporations want them, so they come across. They get a better wage, the corporations charge on the cheap, and folks around here get the services. Kind of like a new slavery! It turns out to be an almost free market system; except for the government money going to them. But then we are so wealthy and spoiled, no body cares!
But I deeply fear for US due to this. The most educated peoples on earth voted for genocidal solution when times got tough for them. :2cents:

[Zeno Swijtink]

I have good news and I have bad news for you, MsTerry.

The good news: I'm about to educate you.

The bad news: You're wrong again. Everyone who comes here on a WORK VISA has a green card, MsTerry, whether they are high tech workers or field workers. EVERY LEGAL ALIEN GUEST WORKER has a green card.

Don

Work Visa and Green Cards are not the same. A "Green Card" provides permanent residency, work visa are temporary.

For instance, "[t]he H-1B Visa enables professionals in "Specialty Occupations" to make a valuable contribution to the American economy. A maximum of 65,000 H-1B Visas are issued every year. The H-1B Visa is issued for up to three years but may be extended. This provides a maximum stay of six years. The H1-B Visa holder can apply for a Green Card if a company wants to sponsor his/her application. "

https://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/visa_h1b.html

[Lenny]

I fear for America, because so many stoned, hateful and jealous people, and so many spiritually bankrupt people think that impeding America's success will somehow make the world better. I fear for America because "Progressives" won't let America progress to labor self-suffience and energy independence.
I don't worry about a "genocidal solution" because that is b.s. made up by ignorant people and perpetuated by other ignorant poeple to the detriment of ALL of us, even the fools who spew the nonsesne.

Actually, those folks (Progressives, now called) really ARE patriotic. They REALLY love the same country you do!
Really, really and truly. It is just they have a different "spin" on how it would manifest. I know you think they "hate" US, but they really don't. They really do recognize the differences and review the terrible parts of our past, and use that as a springboard to project some kind of solution. You may have to trust me a bit on that. Don't have to, but it can help if what is written is true. They too love the Good Ol' USA!
Also, I may be one of those that are the "ignorant people" that fear the genocidal solution. Go and become a "person of colored" (have to laugh at that one, as we used to be called "colored people") and walk around like that for a while. Are you not the fellow in Novato that has to deal with those kids that hate authority? If so, then you have a bit of a taste. Imagine if those kids had the power to act out. It wasn't that long ago, and in this country we ALL love, that colored folks were beaten down easily. Not in Marin/Sonoma, but this ain't the only place on the planet. Maybe the best, but not the only. :2cents:

[Reportanddeport]

"Progressives" are people that love America like Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro love America. That which you don't inderstand and don't control and don't profit from, YOU MUST MAKE PROBLEMS FOR. "Progressives" are people who will piss in the well of the farmer with the most water, INSTEAD OF DIGGING THEIR OWN WELLS.

Obsession with past injustices PRODUCES NOTHING.

I will NOT become a person of color, nor will I exalt my own race, nor will I cry for a person of color, nor will I mistreat a person of color, nor will I advance a person of color, nor will I demote a person of color, nor will I give a person of color a right to break the law, nor will I single out a person of color for prosecution. You can boohoo for all the people of color in the world if you want to, but I feel NOTHING UPLIFTING about it.

The ONLY places in the U.S.A. where the "genocidal solution" exists is in the ABORTUARIES. Other than that, it is nonsense invented by empty minds.

I don't know what the punks in Novato have to do with anything.


Actually, those folks (Progressives, now called) really ARE patriotic. They REALLY love the same country you do!
Really, really and truly. It is just they have a different "spin" on how it would manifest. I know you think they "hate" US, but they really don't. They really do recognize the differences and review the terrible parts of our past, and use that as a springboard to project some kind of solution. You may have to trust me a bit on that. Don't have to, but it can help if what is written is true. They too love the Good Ol' USA!
Also, I may be one of those that are the "ignorant people" that fear the genocidal solution. Go and become a "person of colored" (have to laugh at that one, as we used to be called "colored people") and walk around like that for a while. Are you not the fellow in Novato that has to deal with those kids that hate authority? If so, then you have a bit of a taste. Imagine if those kids had the power to act out. It wasn't that long ago, and in this country we ALL love, that colored folks were beaten down easily. Not in Marin/Sonoma, but this ain't the only place on the planet. Maybe the best, but not the only. :2cents:

[thewholetruth]

"I wonder if there will be any changes with a new "leader" in the White House?"

"New" is a stretch. Same old guard. Nothing new happens in Washington, Jeff. Haven't you noticed that by now? It doesn't matter who wins, it will be business as usual. But hey, there's something to be said about routine.

Don

[Magick]

Dear Community, I am saddened by this individual who calls the legal right to choice a "genocidal solution" and who chooses to use as his indentification, "report and deport".
There are many women in this community that have exercised their right to an abortion, and many people from other countries who are doing the best they can to survive here.
I suggest that we as a community refuse to carry on any further dialogue with an individual who considers the right to choose, murder.
I know that some may condemn my call to ignore this individual until he stops his disrespectful behavior.
Some of you will think that dialogue will help. I have not seen any change in his stance since he began.
I can not feel that anyone who claims abortion is genocide deserves to be
honored with response.
Respectful discussion needs to have certain perimeters, accusing women of murder is not with in the realm of conscious dialogue.
If you think you can effect his position, why not ask to talk to him in person?
I consider the continued tolerance of such offensive speech to be an affront to all who respect freedom of choice and freedom to survive in these difficult times.

Yours in Truth, magick

[Reportanddeport]

You're really going overboard to defend snuffing out your own child. You either really ENJOYED that hit, or you feel so guilty about it that you're now performing public histrionics to defend it.
Remember when you emailed Virginia Fuller to slam her for calling abortion murder, and you told her you had a "therapeutic abortion"? That garbage and hate you sent went to a Registered Nurse who runs a foundation to take care of sick and homeless kids, the kind of place that your child could have lived at if you had LET it live.

And as far as "genocidal solutions" is concerned, it was one of the other lost and confused minds that brought that term up, and I only found an apt use for such a stupid and idiotic concern. The ONLY place in America where the "genocidal solution" is practiced at is in the abortuaries.


Dear Community, I am saddened by this individual who calls the legal right to choice a "genocidal solution" and who chooses to use as his indentification, "report and deport".
There are many women in this community that have exercised their right to an abortion, and many people from other countries who are doing the best they can to survive here.
I suggest that we as a community refuse to carry on any further dialogue with an individual who considers the right to choose, murder.
I know that some may condemn my call to ignore this individual until he stops his disrespectful behavior.
Some of you will think that dialogue will help. I have not seen any change in his stance since he began.
I can not feel that anyone who claims abortion is genocide deserves to be
honored with response.
Respectful discussion needs to have certain perimeters, accusing women of murder is not with in the realm of conscious dialogue.
If you think you can effect his position, why not ask to talk to him in person?
I consider the continued tolerance of such offensive speech to be an affront to all who respect freedom of choice and freedom to survive in these difficult times.

Yours in Truth, magick

[thewholetruth]

"Yours in Truth, magick"

Those in truth aren't afraid to discuss issues or be confronted about our positions on things. It appears that your signoff should read "Yours in Opinion, magick". Those who walk in the truth aren't afraid to defend ourselves. We have the truth at our back.

Why are you afraid of dialogue with this man that you are not afraid to disrespect with posts like this? Have you even considered what your own fear is about? Or are you simply unable to stop focusing on him in order to take your own inventory?

Don


Dear Community, I am saddened by this individual who calls the legal right to choice a "genocidal solution" and who chooses to use as his indentification, "report and deport".
There are many women in this community that have exercised their right to an abortion, and many people from other countries who are doing the best they can to survive here.
I suggest that we as a community refuse to carry on any further dialogue with an individual who considers the right to choose, murder.
I know that some may condemn my call to ignore this individual until he stops his disrespectful behavior.
Some of you will think that dialogue will help. I have not seen any change in his stance since he began.
I can not feel that anyone who claims abortion is genocide deserves to be
honored with response.
Respectful discussion needs to have certain perimeters, accusing women of murder is not with in the realm of conscious dialogue.
If you think you can effect his position, why not ask to talk to him in person?
I consider the continued tolerance of such offensive speech to be an affront to all who respect freedom of choice and freedom to survive in these difficult times.

Yours in Truth, magick

[Lenny]

I understand your feelings in this matter, but I need to tell you he may have a point, though delivered in a way that a person could pop him in the nose and help him become a little more respectful in delivery. However that is the price of autonomy in this medium.
He probably knows that the promulgation of abortion in this, and every country since the 1920s, was by an avowed racist (eugenics was the civilized term) but that she wanted to eliminate the Irish, Mexicans, Indians, Jews, blah, blah, and-you-know-what, for the most altruistic reasons. She thought it would do them "good".
She started Planned Parenthood and set up, with purpose, a plan for aboratoriums to be in "poor" neighborhoods to eliminate those inferior races. It is plain black & white reading. But such information is not disseminated by those, like you, who wish to keep abortions going. As a male, who gives a flying fig, eh? Women suffer because of these abortions, legal or not. THAT is a problem of immense proportions.
As for the fellow you wish to ostracize, consider it a good thing that he is here. It's just an attitude adjustment of a minor nature that need be corrected, and it won't happen here. It is more of a personal method of adjustment. :2cents:


Dear Community, I am saddened by this individual who calls the legal right to choice a "genocidal solution" and who chooses to use as his indentification, "report and deport".
There are many women in this community that have exercised their right to an abortion, and many people from other countries who are doing the best they can to survive here.
I suggest that we as a community refuse to carry on any further dialogue with an individual who considers the right to choose, murder.
I know that some may condemn my call to ignore this individual until he stops his disrespectful behavior.
Some of you will think that dialogue will help. I have not seen any change in his stance since he began.
I can not feel that anyone who claims abortion is genocide deserves to be honored with response. Respectful discussion needs to have certain perimeters, accusing women of murder is not with in the realm of conscious dialogue. If you think you can effect his position, why not ask to talk to him in person? I consider the continued tolerance of such offensive speech to be an affront to all who respect freedom of choice and freedom to survive in these difficult times. Yours in Truth, magick

[Lenny]

I wish I could cut those Quote boxes and post them for response! So cool!
You get "hate" mixed up with love. Your definitions are far less than straight. Castro, Chavez and the like hate America. You infer they love it. Progressives in this country Do love this country and wish to improve it with the same impetus as you. See it or don't, it's still true.

As for pissing in the well, but not digging their own. Well, the work I see that they put in for social change FAR outreaches any that I've seen from the other side. FAR out reaches! Of course the other side does it with $$, so their labor is bound up in other methods. But for getting folks rolling on something, the left can do it, with public relations, media, and bodies and get a response. Rarely see the right do that.

You writ, "Obsession with past injustices PRODUCES NOTHING." is curious. From that I gather you read posts, but not history. Unless you are of the Lenin school that "the study of history shows we learn nothing from the study of history" kind of thought. And, like all good thugs, he knew what he was talking about. And he was wrong. Thinking people do learn from history, and that may be a problem in itself.

I was in error in asking you to feel anything about a person outside your own realm. I apologize for that. You are not ready to do such a thing. Also I did not mean to ask you to "raise, praise, demean, or do" anything for a person of color as well. Truth is, colored folks want what you are already giving them: nothing special. But around here that is dang near impossible! Very liberal county you know. You remind me of a guy that used to work where I did. As Aryan as can be, absolutely hated everyone, but equally. And he used race, not to hate, but just to use it anyway. Most far out guy I met on that issue. Thing is, he loved colored women only. Luckily he could bench press two and a half times his weight, box, run, and was an animal to mess with. If you could develop half that, you're all right with me.

And the point of those Novato punks is simply that they hate you and don't know you. And that is what is like to be colored. To have folks look at you "differently" and have negative or stereotype feelings, just because of what you LOOK like on the outside. That is a role for you and you get to take off your uniform. Colored folks don't. No boohoo, just a fact, Jack. :2cents:


"Progressives" are people that love America like Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro love America. That which you don't inderstand and don't control and don't profit from, YOU MUST MAKE PROBLEMS FOR. "Progressives" are people who will piss in the well of the farmer with the most water, INSTEAD OF DIGGING THEIR OWN WELLS. Obsession with past injustices PRODUCES NOTHING. I will NOT become a person of color, nor will I exalt my own race, nor will I cry for a person of color, nor will I mistreat a person of color, nor will I advance a person of color, nor will I demote a person of color, nor will I give a person of color a right to break the law, nor will I single out a person of color for prosecution. You can boohoo for all the people of color in the world if you want to, but I feel NOTHING UPLIFTING about it.
The ONLY places in the U.S.A. where the "genocidal solution" exists is in the ABORTUARIES. Other than that, it is nonsense invented by empty minds. I don't know what the punks in Novato have to do with anything.

[Reportanddeport]

Rather than making a new thread, I fugured I'd just use this thread to show you a little of what happened in Santa Rosa yesterday. I shot this vid myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsW_UTJrivM