Is scalping tickets cool?

[santarosie]

I purchased far ahead of time, and scored four very good seats to the concert last night at the Wells Fargo Center. When my friends said they would not make it a week before the show, I sold one pair of the tickets at face value to a couple who feigned interest in seeing the show, but then turned around and scalped them for about 4 times what I paid.

I knew I could have sold them for a profit since they were good seats and this band usually sells out the venue, but I don't think ticket reselling should be used as a business, because it puts performance art out of reach for the average person. That's why I sold them to someone from our local community who supposedly wanted to see the show.

I'm curious what Waccoville thinks....Is this cool to do?

[Valley Oak]

No! It is totally uncool. Scalping is wrong.

Edward



I purchased far ahead of time, and scored four very good seats to the concert last night at the Wells Fargo Center. When my friends said they would not make it a week before the show, I sold one pair of the tickets at face value to a couple who feigned interest in seeing the show, but then turned around and scalped them for about 4 times what I paid.

I knew I could have sold them for a profit since they were good seats and this band usually sells out the venue, but I don't think ticket reselling should be used as a business, because it puts performance art out of reach for the average person. That's why I sold them to someone from our local community who supposedly wanted to see the show.

I'm curious what Waccoville thinks....Is this cool to do?

[Zeno Swijtink]

By purchasing far ahead you took on some risk: after you bought the tickets a member the band could have been exposed as a child molester and your appetite, or anyone's for that matter, to see the show would have been gone. Or the weather could have been so bad many people, including you, would have had to decide against seeing the show. Etc.

You weren't sure you would be able to recoup your money in many such cases. So, from a market perspective, you needed to be rewarded for taking on this risk and you should have decided to sell at the higher price the little market in front of the theatre was accepting.

(Of course there is nothing wrong with giving money away as you did apparently.)

In your case other people bought from you cheaply and turned around to sell at a profit. They also were bearing some risk but they may have had private knowledge that made them assess their risk as low.

If scalping became a habit, bands would catch on to that and initially raise their prices, and/or offer more concerts. This would draw in more creative people to form bands and the price would go down again. I don't see how this would put performance art out of reach for the average person.

I lived in Poland for awhile in the 1970s and scalping was common. But performance opportunities were rare and prices controlled, so the market did not work.

I am not saying the market mechanism works for all goods or services, but I don't see a problem right now with your case. But I am open to someone showing me differently.

Added in an edit. I remember now my son wanting to get a Wii console. You need to get to the store early on a Sunday morning, and even then you can't get them for sure. They are offered on EBay for a large markup. Here Nintendo could have raised the price and still sell them. They may have another economic reason not to do this though.

[thanksandpraise]

I think you should sell them for face value. It's the fair thing to do.
Cheers!

[Lenny]

You did the right thing.
I know you feel an injustice.
I know you sold them "pure of heart" and they turned around and did a dirty deed.
And there is nothing wrong with what THEY did in selling them at a profit. Market issues.
And you still did the Right Thing.
Be comforted in knowing that what you did is "right" and what they did was sell their "right" for simple money.
Yours ain't for sale.
Rest assured.:thumbsup:
Besides, the boss wanted to go last night and tickets were ALL GONE when I called Wednesday. She let me slide THIS TIME.

[alanora]

I am not certain that right and/or wrong are in play here. Free market economy allows people to charge as much as they can get and others to purchase or not. I would have felt the same way had I just missed an opportunity that the next guy picked up. Selling lower cost tickets to nyc events is common as well as scalping tickets outside the venue for outrageous prices. I generally cannot afford the tickets any way, and so feel unaffected by these choices and do not judge any one for where they fall on the continuum. mindy



You did the right thing.
I know you feel an injustice.
I know you sold them "pure of heart" and they turned around and did a dirty deed.
And there is nothing wrong with what THEY did in selling them at a profit. Market issues.
And you still did the Right Thing.
Be comforted in knowing that what you did is "right" and what they did was sell their "right" for simple money.
Yours ain't for sale.
Rest assured.:thumbsup:
Besides, the boss wanted to go last night and tickets were ALL GONE when I called Wednesday. She let me slide THIS TIME.

[theindependenteye]

As a performr, I've never been popular enough to have someone scalp tickets to my performance. But I loathe and despise the practice, and would never buy something from a scalper no matter how much I wanted to see it.

I feel it's a rip-off of the artists. I feel it changes the very nature of the performance event — if somebody pays $250 for a $50 ticket, they're expecting not only $250 worth of entertainment but that Christ is going to walk on water.

And justifications on the basis of the free market — that of course the same thing happens with stocks or with pork belly futures — classifies all arts & entertainment as commodities on the level of stocks and pork belly futures. Yes, I understand that that's the world we live in. But I do not approve.

Maybe in the long run a visual artist who sold a painting for $500 that now sells for $500,000 is still benefiting from the workings of the marketplace, or that a scalped ticket will ultimately increase the value of a box office ticket, to the benefit of the artist. (My own belief is that it corrupts the core of the art itself.)

But I have to admit that my own feelings are impervious to economic logic. I just feel it's a vile, despicable practice, and I'd love to flame the gold-plated assholes who promote it.

Peace & joy, relatively speaking—
Conrad

[Zeno Swijtink]

I wonder what you think of the flipside of a scalper. Someone who pays $25 for a $50 ticket.

It's rainy and you stand outside a theatre. You just heard that the show is sold out. Fortunately, three people are standing around, all trying to sell a $50 ticket. Their partner could not make it. You are the only one visible who is looking for a ticket. You offer $25 for the ticket to the man in the blue raincoat. He agrees. Both you and the man seem to be satisfied.

Can that you be you?

[Braggi]

This is a practice that has always irritated me and yet I also think about doing it from time to time. (Never have.)

I'm good at buying tickets and can usually get excellent seats at face value. I have never bought extras with the intent to scalp, but it's so tempting. I'm not surprised people do it.

The recent Hanna Montana tour was a bit of a joke. People were paying $2,000 for good seats and on the night of the local show (I think it was in San Francisco) there were still excellent seats available at the box office.

I dislike the practice of scalping, I've never done it and I've never paid scalper prices, but I do understand why people do it on both ends. It's very unsatisfying to me.

SantaRosie, I feel for you. I think you did get ripped off in a way. At this point, I suppose it's best to let it flow under the bridge like all the other water.

Hugs,

-Jeff

[Valley Oak]

Do scalpers declare the earnings too when they fill out their tax forms every year?

What are the tax rates on scalping revenues?

Does the IRS only seek to levy taxes if the earnings are over $100 a ticket or for specific musicians, such as Karen Carpenter, Sid Vicious, or Tiny Tim? How about if they all perform together?

Is scalping lawful?

Edward

[santarosie]

I don't feel that I was ripped off. I recouped the money I paid and saw a GREAT show as planned! I would not have done it any different, and I will continue to operate the same way in the future as I always have. Extra tickets will be sold at cost. I don't see ticket buying as an investment, it is an opportunity to support the artist and enjoy their work. If I have to take a loss on tickets sold for less than what was paid, or given away, I will consider it a good deed, and still be glad to support an artist I appreciate.

I would liked to have sold the tickets to a more honest person, someone like Lenny who truly wanted to see the show but missed out on buying tickets. I wish my intention had been realized. But I guess I can understand the opportunist mentality. Just not my style, and I would avoid dealing with these folks again.



This is a practice that has always irritated me and yet I also think about doing it from time to time. (Never have.)

I'm good at buying tickets and can usually get excellent seats at face value. I have never bought extras with the intent to scalp, but it's so tempting. I'm not surprised people do it.

The recent Hanna Montana tour was a bit of a joke. People were paying $2,000 for good seats and on the night of the local show (I think it was in San Francisco) there were still excellent seats available at the box office.

I dislike the practice of scalping, I've never done it and I've never paid scalper prices, but I do understand why people do it on both ends. It's very unsatisfying to me.

SantaRosie, I feel for you. I think you did get ripped off in a way. At this point, I suppose it's best to let it flow under the bridge like all the other water.

Hugs,

-Jeff

[alanora]

Did the guy lie by saying he wanted to see the show or just that he wanted to buy your tickets? Perhaps it was his moment to provide food or rent for his family, does that alter any thing? I could see being honest and being a scalper, yea they cost me 25 and I will let you have them for fifty is not a lie, just a lousy business proposition. I am glad you enjoyed the show..who was performing? Mindy


I don't feel that I was ripped off. I recouped the money I paid and saw a GREAT show as planned! I would not have done it any different, and I will continue to operate the same way in the future as I always have. Extra tickets will be sold at cost. I don't see ticket buying as an investment, it is an opportunity to support the artist and enjoy their work. If I have to take a loss on tickets sold for less than what was paid, or given away, I will consider it a good deed, and still be glad to support an artist I appreciate.

I would liked to have sold the tickets to a more honest person, someone like Lenny who truly wanted to see the show but missed out on buying tickets. I wish my intention had been realized. But I guess I can understand the opportunist mentality. Just not my style, and I would avoid dealing with these folks again.

[MsTerry]

such as Karen Carpenter, Sid Vicious, or Tiny Tim? How about if they all perform together?

Edward

Playing Stairway to Heaven???

[Valley Oak]

Or any of Queen's greatest hits!

Edward



Playing Stairway to Heaven???

[mykil]

I went down to Shoreline to see a show not to long ago and had an extra ticket. I got the tickets for free so I just handed it to a brother in need! It was kind of cool being able to do such a thing. I was walking raised my hand with the ticket, he raised his hand and I just handed it to him. No words where even spoken! That is a good thing. I imagine if you paid for such a thing the best way to do it would be online and not at the show itself. I would buy from someone who got tickets for a friend that flaked before I would pay at the box office just because of pure feelings for the person that is about to take such a loss. Even if you get them for free and are in need of a few bucks I don’t see the harm. In this day and age everyone seems to be in need and an extra twenty bucks can come in handy! If it’s a big show I really don’t see the harm. If only five people show up then I might actually start to feel a little something for the artist!

[santarosie]

I went down to Shoreline to see a show not to long ago and had an extra ticket. I got the tickets for free so I just handed it to a brother in need! It was kind of cool being able to do such a thing.

:hugs:
A big Wacco hug to you Mykil!
That will be worth some "good karma capital".

[santarosie]

Did the guy lie by saying he wanted to see the show or just that he wanted to buy your tickets? Perhaps it was his moment to provide food or rent for his family, does that alter any thing? I could see being honest and being a scalper, yea they cost me 25 and I will let you have them for fifty is not a lie, just a lousy business proposition. I am glad you enjoyed the show..who was performing? Mindy

Yes, they lied. The persons buying the tickets said they wanted to go see the show. If they outright said they were going to sell them for a large profit, I would have sold them to someone else who was going to the show. Not that I have any control over what happens once they leave my hands, it was just my intention to pass on my good fortune in getting good seats for a fair price. Yes, maybe they were putting food on the table, blah, blah blah, but selling for 4 times face value?!? I call that price gouging. Unsavory in my book, bad juju.

Big Bad VooDoo Daddy is a contemporary Swing Band. They have 2 trumpets, 2 saxaphones, a trombone, a stand-up bass, a piano, a drummer, and a lead guitarist/vocalist. All are fine musicians (the baritone sax was awesome) and they rocked the house. Don't know how anyone could sit still in their seat!

Bizarre moment: During the encore when everyone was up cheering, the balcony felt like it was rocking, and I thought, "WOW, they are really getting some love here"! Then when I got home I heard about the 4.1 earthquake that happened at that moment. What a trip!

[Valley Oak]

Talking about tickets, I remember an unpleasant experience my family had about 8 or 9 years ago.

My wife, our daughter, and myself went to one of the many different versions of the Renaissance Pleasure Faire somewhere. As we approached the main entrance where the tickets were being sold, we ran into a very kind-hearted young lady who had one or two tickets that she was about to give us because she was not going to attend that day for some reason.

As she was handing them to us, one of the security people at the entrance snatched them out of her hands and confiscated them without a word. Apparently, they had some kind of policy against scalping but she was giving them away for free to us. If we had gone somewhere else for the "transaction" there would not have been a problem but because it took place in his view then he did what he did.

The poor gal was in tears and frozen in shock. We stayed with her for about 15 minutes or so to console and reassured her that it was ok and thank you nonetheless. It hurt her more than it hurt us. The three of us eventually went in and had a fun day at the faire despite the incident.

Now what's your opinion on that one? I've been wanting to tell that story for a long time now and this thread is perfect.

Edward

[Zeno Swijtink]

I seem to have been one of the few, or even the only, person on this list who could see some value or justification in ticket scalping, selling a ticket for a popular event at a price higher than the official one.

If someone stood eight hours in line since 4am to get this ticket why is it immoral to sell it at a higher price to someone who did drop by the entrance just before show-time to see whether he could get in?

Anyhow, here is a little piece of research on this and related matters.

PS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticket_scalping is informative

*****

Lining Up for Star-Wars Tickets: Some Ruminations On Ethics and Economics Based on An Internet Study of Behavior in Queues. Journal of Business Ethics, Volume 38, Numbers 1-2 / June, 2002. F.*Neil*Brady, Romney Institute of Public Management, Marriott School of Management, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, 84602, U.S.A.

Abstract**Queues may represent business ethics in microcosm: they provide an opportunity to study in a smaller package the fundamental ethical tension in economic activity between self-interest and civility in the context of uncertainty and stress.

In May 1999 people began forming lines to purchase tickets to the new Star Wars movie "The Phantom Menace." This paper reviews responses to a questionnaire on the internet regarding experiences in those lines.

It focuses on two behaviors threatening queue discipline – the formation of cooperative groups and "pre-scalping."

It concludes that although queues are complex phenomena, exhibiting important ethical, economic, social, and psychological elements, the general organizing principle of "first-come-first-served" still provides the foundation for queues while at the same time making room for a variety of legitimate modifications.

Second, this paper concludes that, as with queues, the thought that self-interest is the exclusive guiding principle for business behavior is likewise too narrow, inducing participants to neglect opportunities for personal enrichment and satisfaction.

[theindependenteye]

<hr>{ In WaccoBB.net, Zeno Swijtink wrote:}

>I seem to have been one of the few, or even the only, person on this list who could see some value or justification in ticket scalping, selling a ticket for a popular event at a price higher than the official one.

>If someone stood eight hours in line since 4am to get this ticket why is it immoral to sell it at a higher price...

Well, Zeno, it might be argued that someone who stood in line for eight hours for anything short of the Second Coming wasn't entirely in his right mind.

But on the contrary, unless I've been reading a different thread, it seems that most people feel it's just fine to scalp. I thought I was in the minority. I'll have to rethink my position to maintain my uniqueness.

And I don't feel it's immoral. I just feel it's disgusting and despicable, like shitting on someone's rug -- but otherwise, no problem.

I claim no rationale for this bigoted viewpoint. In fact I'm rather proud that my irrational opinions are quite harmless, unlike most opinions today, which are asserted with the vehemence of a sperm fighting its way through lime Jello. My opinions are more like small lap-dogs, flea-bitten but discreet.

Cheers--
Conrad, senselessly

[alanora]

I have felt the balcony to be less than stable while there was no earthquake.....fyi mindy


Yes, they lied. The persons buying the tickets said they wanted to go see the show. If they outright said they were going to sell them for a large profit, I would have sold them to someone else who was going to the show. Not that I have any control over what happens once they leave my hands, it was just my intention to pass on my good fortune in getting good seats for a fair price. Yes, maybe they were putting food on the table, blah, blah blah, but selling for 4 times face value?!? I call that price gouging. Unsavory in my book, bad juju.

Big Bad VooDoo Daddy is a contemporary Swing Band. They have 2 trumpets, 2 saxaphones, a trombone, a stand-up bass, a piano, a drummer, and a lead guitarist/vocalist. All are fine musicians (the baritone sax was awesome) and they rocked the house. Don't know how anyone could sit still in their seat!

Bizarre moment: During the encore when everyone was up cheering, the balcony felt like it was rocking, and I thought, "WOW, they are really getting some love here"! Then when I got home I heard about the 4.1 earthquake that happened at that moment. What a trip!

[MsTerry]

I'm shocked too, Edward!
It sounds like there were TWO men involved in this incident that behaved below decent standards.
The security guard stole the tickets but the second man didn't do anything to get the tickets back, in fact he rewarded the whole undertaking by buying THREE MORE tickets!!!
Edward, I like you ranting and raving against injustice every now and again, but when it is time to make a REAL stand in person, you better do it, especially in front of your own woman!



Talking about tickets, I remember an unpleasant experience my family had about 8 or 9 years ago.

My wife, our daughter, and myself went to one of the many different versions of the Renaissance Pleasure Faire somewhere. As we approached the main entrance where the tickets were being sold, we ran into a very kind-hearted young lady who had one or two tickets that she was about to give us because she was not going to attend that day for some reason.

As she was handing them to us, one of the security people at the entrance snatched them out of her hands and confiscated them without a word. Apparently, they had some kind of policy against scalping but she was giving them away for free to us. If we had gone somewhere else for the "transaction" there would not have been a problem but because it took place in his view then he did what he did.

The poor gal was in tears and frozen in shock. We stayed with her for about 15 minutes or so to console and reassured her that it was ok and thank you nonetheless. It hurt her more than it hurt us. The three of us eventually went in and had a fun day at the faire despite the incident.

Now what's your opinion on that one? I've been wanting to tell that story for a long time now and this thread is perfect.

Edward