Overturn Indian Gaming Compacts (Propositions 94 -97)

[santarosie]

Overturn Indian Gaming Compacts.

Martin J. Bennett

On February 5th California voters can overturn four Indian gaming compacts approved by the legislature--compacts which will permit Native American tribes in Southern California to commence one of the largest expansions of gambling in American history. Californians concerned with the unprecedented polarization of wealth and the consequences of urban sprawl in the state should assess the impacts of these compacts--Propositions 94,95,96,97--on small non-gaming tribes, casino workers and their families, and the environment.

Unlike compacts approved by the Legislature in 2004, these compacts will deny up to 50,000 present and future casino workers protections essential to improve their standard of living and to gain access to California's middle class. If this legislation stands, the basic right of California casino workers to organize unions will be significantly eroded.

In California and across America, workers who attempt to organize a union at a casino are routinely harassed, threatened, illegally disciplined, and fired. Without specific provisions to protect workers at these gigantic casinos, working conditions suffer, and wages and benefits are lower than comparable union casinos such as those operated by the United Auburn and Rumsey tribes.

These compacts come at a critical moment. In California, tribal gaming is our fastest growing industry, posting revenues of more than $7 billion annually. The new compacts are worth an estimated $50 billion over two decades and would enable the tribes to triple the size of their casinos

According to a recent report by Occidental College professor Peter Dreier, the four wealthy Southern California tribes represent just .6%--less than one percent--of California's native population, but their casino revenue in 2005 was 43 percent of all gaming revenues in the state.

Their super casinos, each with more than 2000 slot machines and 2,000 employees, enjoy near monopoly privileges and are located off interstate highways close to the metropolitan centers of Los Angeles and San Diego.

The potential to further increase their revenues is substantial. The compacts authorize the tribes to add 17,000 slot machines; Southern California will then become home to some of the largest casinos in the world, surpassing those in Las Vegas.
Moreover, the new compacts lack the same opportunity for public review and comment before local governments sign-off on casino expansions. In a brazen and cynical move, three of the four tribes under these compacts built-out facilities to accommodate new gaming prior to final approval--so it is likely that the environmental review for these casinos will never happen.

Furthermore, the vast majority of California Native Americans will see little or no benefit from this expansion. Ninety percent are members of tribes without gaming. Most gaming tribes have small casinos in relatively isolated rural areas with less than 500 slot machines and 300 employees. Moreover, the rich Southern California tribes have opposed efforts by poor non-gaming tribes such as the Quechan in Imperial County and the Yurok in Humboldt County, the state's two largest tribes, to procure gaming compacts.

Most disturbing, the new mega-casinos will create poverty-wage jobs alongside exorbitant profits. The Morongo in Riverside have built a 27-story hotel and casino complex that employs
3,000 workers, most of whom are not tribal members. The Economist magazine claims the tribe earned $100 million in profit from gaming in 2004 and provided each member $20,000 a month.

Yet according to Peter Dreier's report, based upon public data provided by the tribe, the median minimum entry wage for a non-tipped full-time Morongo casino worker was $9.50 an hour in 2007, and annual compensation less than $20,000 a year.

In addition, UC economist Eric Nilsson found that health care premiums and insurance co-pays provided by the Agua Caliente in Riverside for dependent children of casino workers were so high that state programs such as Healthy Kids and Medi-Cal covered 46 percent of employee's children.

A recent report by the California Budget Project indicates that the gap between high-wage and low-wage workers in California "is greater than it was a generation ago," and that 44 percent of workers in the state do not earn wages sufficient for two full-time workers to provide the basics for a family of four. If denied the right to organize, casino workers employed by the four tribes will join the ranks of the working poor.

Californians should vote no on these propositions and send a message to the legislature that new compacts should be better than the last ones.
Workers, the environment and disenfranchised tribes deserve better.

Martin J. Bennett teaches American history at Santa Rosa Junior College; he is Co-Chair of the Living Wage Coalition of Sonoma County and a Research and Policy Analyst for UNITEHERE Local 2850. This article originally appeared in the Santa Rosa Press Democrat.

[Dark Shadows]

Ooooooo, you people make me so F*&^%$ing mad!

Californians concerned with the unprecedented polarization of wealth and the consequences of urban sprawl in the state should assess the impacts of these compacts--Propositions 94,95,96,97--on small non-gaming tribes, casino workers and their families, and the environment.

Unprecedented polarization of wealth? Give me a break, do you see any Native American millionaires walking around, driving Hummers and building huge monstrosities that block the view of the ocean for others or obliterate the natural landscape?

In California and across America, workers who attempt to organize a union at a casino are routinely harassed, threatened, illegally disciplined, and fired.


Can you provide some kind of proof of this kind of abuse? Please name your source of this information.

In California, tribal gaming is our fastest growing industry,

Again, please state your source of this statistic, this is news to me and I'm sure others. Something tells me that this statistic was made up by the person or group who would benefit the most by making such a statement.

Their super casinos, each with more than 2000 slot machines and 2,000 employees, enjoy near monopoly privileges and are located off interstate highways close to the metropolitan centers of Los Angeles and San Diego.

What casino, specifically are you referring to? Are you saying 2000 slot machines total, or for just one casino. You can't make a blanket statement like this without backing it up with reliable information, like the names of the casinos with this number of slots and employees. This statement is purposely nebulous, we don't know whether this statistic refers to each casino, or the casinos of Los Angeles and San Diego as a group.


According to a recent report by Occidental College professor Peter Dreier, the four wealthy Southern California tribes represent just .6%--less than one percent--of California's native population, but their casino revenue in 2005 was 43 percent of all gaming revenues in the state.

Do you understand that this is a capitalistic economy?. Have you heard anyone make a statement, such as this one about the major shareholders of Walmart, Target, and K-Mart lately?

The potential to further increase their revenues is substantial. The compacts authorize the tribes to add 17,000 slot machines; Southern California will then become home to some of the largest casinos in the world, surpassing those in Las Vegas.

Why shouldn't Native Americans have the potential to increase their revenues? And why should Las Vegas have all the action? Doesn't this industry bring jobs and financial stabilty to the Vegas area?

Moreover, the rich Southern California tribes have opposed efforts by poor non-gaming tribes such as the Quechan in Imperial County and the Yurok in Humboldt County, the state's two largest tribes, to procure gaming compacts.

Again, just because we are Native Americans doesn't mean that we aren't ambitious and want to beat out the competition. Have you been to the Yurok res lately? Have you seen the tribal center and medical clinics? They beat out the Sonoma County clinics for quality and efficiency hands down.

Yet according to Peter Dreier's report, based upon public data provided by the tribe, the median minimum entry wage for a non-tipped full-time Morongo casino worker was $9.50 an hour in 2007, and annual compensation less than $20,000 a year.

Isn't this better than the most popular (not!) entry level American occupation in the fast food industry?

In addition, UC economist Eric Nilsson found that health care premiums and insurance co-pays provided by the Agua Caliente in Riverside for dependent children of casino workers were so high that state programs such as Healthy Kids and Medi-Cal covered 46 percent of employee's children.

Well, I can't say this is good news, but at least they have health care options, many California employers don't offer any healtcare benefits. All the more reason we need universal health coverage.

Most disturbing, the new mega-casinos will create poverty-wage jobs alongside exorbitant profits. The Morongo in Riverside have built a 27-story hotel and casino complex that employs
3,000 workers, most of whom are not tribal members. The Economist magazine claims the tribe earned $100 million in profit from gaming in 2004 and provided each member $20,000 a month.


What would happen to these workers if the casino wasn't there? Don't they have choices? They have the option to work at McDonalds for minimum wage or the casino for substantially more than the minimum wage. Or better yet, get an education and a better job.

Californians should vote no on these propositions and send a message to the legislature that new compacts should be better than the last ones.
Workers, the environment and disenfranchised tribes deserve better.

Frankly, I don't believe in any compacts. Tribes have the sovereign right to govern themselves, and these "compacts" are just another way the White man's government reaches into the pockets of Native Americans.

[Braggi]

...
Their super casinos, each with more than 2000 slot machines and 2,000 employees, enjoy near monopoly privileges and are located off interstate highways close to the metropolitan centers of Los Angeles and San Diego.

What casino, specifically are you referring to?
...


The "super casinos" are certainly coming. Right here in Sonoma County:
https://www1.pressdemocrat.com/article/20080110/NEWS/801100311/1033/NEWS01



...
According to a recent report by Occidental College professor Peter Dreier, the four wealthy Southern California tribes represent just .6%--less than one percent--of California's native population, but their casino revenue in 2005 was 43 percent of all gaming revenues in the state.

Do you understand that this is a capitalistic economy?. Have you heard anyone make a statement, such as this one about the major shareholders of Walmart, Target, and K-Mart lately?


I think the casinos are different. It's a monopoly. I can't open a casino.

If "Indian" casinos really were Indian casinos I'd feel differently about them, but most of them aren't run by Indians, most of their employees aren't Indians and most of the money they take in doesn't go to Indians.

I agree the tribes should be allowed to do just about anything they want to do. It's the greatest shame of the United States what we've done to them. But I really don't like the casinos the way they are developing. They are just an extension of Las Vegas and they throw a few dollars down to the tribes whose names they use. I think the communities the casinos are located in would do better if the casinos were shut down and taxes were raised to make equivalent payments to the Indians. That would be less of a burden on the communities.

I'm voting no on these propositions. There are few if any propositions in any year that deserve a yes vote.

-Jeff

[Dark Shadows]

Braggi,
You are ignoring the fact that this article written by Martin Bennet villainizes the tribes of Southern Califrnia, if not all American tribes. He makes statements without backing them up with any proof, for example:

· In California and across America, workers who attempt to organize a union at a casino are routinely harassed, threatened, illegally disciplined, and fired.

· Their super casinos, each with more than 2000 slot machines and 2,000 employees, enjoy near monopoly privileges and are located off interstate highways close to the metropolitan centers of Los Angeles and San Diego.
· Moreover, the rich Southern California tribes have opposed efforts by poor non-gaming tribes such as the Quechan in Imperial County and the Yurok in Humboldt County, the state's two largest tribes, to procure gaming compacts.
· Most disturbing, the new mega-casinos will create poverty-wage jobs alongside exorbitant profits.

If it is a monopoly, it is a monopoly on Indian land, and non-Indians have no business telling Indians how to govern their own nations. If I was a foreign citizen, and I wanted to open a casino in Atlantic City, but couldn’t because of prerequisites and regulations, do you think I would have the nerve to complain?

The reason why you don’t see a lot of Native Americans in the casinos is because there aren’t a lot of us, remember we were just about annihilated by the white people? Also, the top jobs go to the Native Americans and those usually aren’t customer facing jobs. Natives are free to hold positions on tribal councils and in the organizations that are working towards restoring our culture and educating and caring for our people. The money from the casinos does help these efforts.

In the Muckleshoot tribe, which owns the biggest casino in Washington, most people (over the age of 18) on the role get a check quarterly, which they are free to use as they please. Children accumulate earnings and are given their share once they reach adulthood. Members of the tribe are now able to spend more time with the tribal unit which is traditional. It is not traditional to be isolated from the group, working 9 to ten hours a day and being alone at night.

Instead of going home at night to eat and watch TV, they go to the tribal center and dance and eat together with the rest of the group. Children are taught from an early age to dance, drum, carve wood and make canoes. It took me awhile to understand this, I was involved with a council member, and I had a hard time with him always being too busy during the week to go to dinner or a movie. Until I started participating in the nightly activities, I felt neglected. But it was wonderful once I got into it. If it wasn’t for the casino, these men and women would be too tired from the struggle to put food on the table to do anything but veg at night, or worse try to drink the blues away.

Diabetes is a big problem on the reservation and now that there are funds to build better health centers, it is getting better. They even have their own health club which everyone is encouraged to join. It’s a better life all around, because of the casinos. And these people are not selfish with other poorer tribes. When I went to Washington recently to help out with the disaster relief, the casinos were the first to offer shelter to those displaced by the devastating storms. I was given a free room for my entire stay, and it was a very nice room I might add. The Squaxin Island tribe helped the Chehalis, that were most affected by the storms. The Chehalis have their own casino, but it was completely full of flood victims.

There were many whites working at the casino in Shelton, and it didn’t seem like they resented their employers, in fact it looked like they were enjoying a pretty comfortable lifestyle. So I would think twice before believing the propaganda spread by the xenophobe that wrote this article.

My tribe is not from California, so maybe I don’t even have a right participating in this argument, but I thought it was my duty to defend the Native right to govern ourselves. Like I said earlier, I don’t believe in the pacts between Indians and the US government, I don’t believe in regulating either. So if there was a neutral vote, that is what I would choose, but I’m not registered to vote in California (I’m registered in Washington), so I don’t have a choice in the matter.

[Braggi]

In general, Dark Shadows, I agree with you. There is no adequate way for the US to give back to the natives what was taken. That aside ...


...
If it is a monopoly, it is a monopoly on Indian land, and non-Indians have no business telling Indians how to govern their own nations....

What is happening is that Las Vegas interests are moving into various areas of California, buying land in a tribe's name and declaring it exempt from laws. What I'm saying is that any land anywhere can become "Indian" land and a casino will be built.

I don't like organized gambling much in any case. I don't gamble at all so I'm not inclined to support casinos for my own pleasure. That's my personal bias.

But there are significant societal and environmental impacts to these casinos, and the tribes and their lawyers and other representatives sometimes want to skirt laws that affect those impacts and lay claim to sovereign nation status to do so.

I think if the people of California really want to go all out with casinos, the State ought to just legalize gambling and get it over with. Up to this point, I don't think a majority would go for it. But how many customers do the tribes want and need? I do know one lady who impoverishes her family every week because she's addicted to gambling. She goes to River Rock and spends all her family's meager income. Then they suffer through until the next paycheck. I realize it's not the tribe's responsibility to make her gamble responsibly, but it's a long drive to Vegas, and perhaps that's where gambling interests ought to stay. Now River Rock wants to expand by three or four times its already substantial size.

I think expansion of "gaming" in California is a bad idea.

It's not a game to the losers and their families.

It's not a game to the environment(s) negatively affected.

-Jeff

[Dark Shadows]

The next thing you'll want is a dry town. Just like alcohol, gambling can be like a drug. But, like prohibition, outlawing gambling will not stop an addict from gambling their paycheck away. There's always internet gambling, and that's available 24 hours a day, anywhere.

Indian casinos have improved the standard of living for tribes that have suffered in poverty for years, there is no denying that.

If you want to regulate something, why not the expansion of vineyards that have changed the landscape of this county from grasslands, wetlands and chaparral (habitat that supported the wildlife and native peoples of this land) to purely agricultural land that produces a product that we don't really need, and is, like gambling, a drug. Something makes me think that you wouldn't want to give up your glass of zin with dinner for the sake of the environment.


In general, Dark Shadows, I agree with you. There is no adequate way for the US to give back to the natives what was taken. That aside ...



What is happening is that Las Vegas interests are moving into various areas of California, buying land in a tribe's name and declaring it exempt from laws. What I'm saying is that any land anywhere can become "Indian" land and a casino will be built.

I don't like organized gambling much in any case. I don't gamble at all so I'm not inclined to support casinos for my own pleasure. That's my personal bias.

But there are significant societal and environmental impacts to these casinos, and the tribes and their lawyers and other representatives sometimes want to skirt laws that affect those impacts and lay claim to sovereign nation status to do so.

I think if the people of California really want to go all out with casinos, the State ought to just legalize gambling and get it over with. Up to this point, I don't think a majority would go for it. But how many customers do the tribes want and need? I do know one lady who impoverishes her family every week because she's addicted to gambling. She goes to River Rock and spends all her family's meager income. Then they suffer through until the next paycheck. I realize it's not the tribe's responsibility to make her gamble responsibly, but it's a long drive to Vegas, and perhaps that's where gambling interests ought to stay. Now River Rock wants to expand by three or four times its already substantial size.

I think expansion of "gaming" in California is a bad idea.

It's not a game to the losers and their families.

It's not a game to the environment(s) negatively affected.

-Jeff

[santarosie]

I generally vote NO on most propositions unless they clearly have a positive impact. After giving these much consideration, talking to people, and reading through the materials (and between the lines), I am inclined to vote yes for these propositions. I was initially opposed when I received four, count em four mailers within two days last week urging a yes vote on these props. My knee-jerk reaction was if they are spending so much money to convince me with slick marketing, it must be a bad thing. And reading the fine print revealed that the same group of organizations sent me all 4 different mailers, which really made my hackles go up (what am I stoopid?).

Truth is I don't gamble, and I don't live in So Cal, so I am ambivalent about the idea of increased access to gaming at these 4 casinos. I am concerned with the negative societal, cultural, and environmental impacts associated with gambling activities and indian gaming in general, but don't believe outlawing or curtailing it is the answer to resolving the problems associated with this industry. I personally would like to see a more positive source of income for indian tribes, but since this is working for them, I do understand the motivation.

I am vehemently opposed to placement of new casinos in already crowded & stressed urban areas where the negative impacts to existing communities are indisputable, especially when the land is being obtained by the Indian tribes (and their backers) for the express purpose of building casinos in those developed areas in order to capitalize on the existing infrastructure and population density.

These particular casinos are in areas that were undeveloped lands when they were built, communities have developed around the casinos. They will more than likely expand at some point, and shouldn't be restricted from doing so anyway. It is good for the Indian tribes, and is an increased source of revenue for California at a time when the state really needs it. According to the information available, the revenues will be shared with 70 other tribes. I don't believe the jobs in these casinos are any worse than in the vegas casinos, or other minimum wage jobs.

I think this is a case of more good than harm being done.

[Dark Shadows]

For those who are interested, here are some of the programs that are funded by casino revenue on the Muckleshoot reservation in Auburn, WA:

https://www.muckleshoot.nsn.us/Education/MTSsign-sm.gif

Muckleshoot Tribal School -- preparing our children for a bright future, the Muckleshoot Tribal School provides high quality educational opportunities to the children of the reservation.



Muckleshoot Tribal College (https://www.muckleshoot.nsn.us/College/index.htm) -- we recognize that a person must be a lifelong learner to take advantage of opportunities available in our rapidly changing society. The Muckleshoot Tribal College offers curriculum that is flexible and responsive to the educational needs of our people.


https://www.muckleshoot.nsn.us/Daycare/CCDF/Front-Kids.jpg

Muckleshoot Child Care Center

Muckleshoot Child Care Center is a team of highly qualified professionals committed to partnering with our community to provide:

Quality Education
Accessible Child Care
Cultural Sense Of Pride
A Loving, Nurturing Environment
Muckleshoot Tribal Health Program

To provide culturally sensitive, responsive, cost effective, high quality health care services that meet the needs of our patients with diverse backgrounds of traditional, cultural, and spiritual values. To supplement those health services with a comprehensive wellness program designed to strengthen mind, body, heart and spirit and thus enable our patients to improve their overall quality of life.

<H1>Behavioral Health Program: </H1>This program is a combination of Certified Alcohol & Drug program and the professional counseling services offered by the tribe.
<H1>Program Features : </H1><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=312 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Individual and Group Counseling </TD></TR><TR><TD>Certified Chemical Dependency Counselors </TD></TR><TR><TD>A Licensed Psychiatrist </TD></TR><TR><TD>Children & Family programs </TD></TR><TR><TD>Medication Management</TD></TR><TR><TD>Outpatient Referral Services</TD></TR><TR><TD>Intervention & Treatment Information</TD></TR><TR><TD>Professional Evaluations </TD></TR><TR><TD>Prevention Education Programs </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=380 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><H1>Community Health Program: </H1>The Community Health Program provides support and education to the local community through one on one counseling, group presentations and events, educational materials and patient transportation.
<H1>Examples include: </H1><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=312 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>The Annual Health Fair </TD></TR><TR><TD>The Smoking Cessation Program </TD></TR><TR><TD>Health Education Brochures </TD></TR><TR><TD>Monthly Articles </TD></TR><TR><TD>Tribal School and Childcare Center activities </TD></TR><TR><TD>Patient Transport Services </TD></TR><TR><TD>Massage Therapy </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Staff includes a Community Health Nurse, Health Education Specialist, Medical Social Worker, two Community Health Representatives, and a Patient Transporter.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=380 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Diabetes Program:

To meet the needs of our diabetic patients and in an effort to increase awareness and prevention of diabetes, the health program has created a Diabetes Awareness & Education Program. The program focuses on patient education, follow-up and treatment. Community education programs include topics such as healthy eating, active lifestyle tips, proper foot care and correct blood glucose testing procedures. The program features a certified Diabetes RN, to assist with patient care and a program Administrative Assistant to coordinate activities and events.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Senior Services Program

Senior Services program, including cultural arts, physical activities, health activities, human services, and special interest classes and programs.


White River Amphitheatre (https://www.whiteriverconcerts.com/)-- A joint venture of the Muckleshoot Tribe and Clear Channel Communications, the White River Amphitheatre provides world class entertainment in a scenic location convenient to the entire Puget Sound Area.


2006 Tribal Canoe Journey
The 2006 InterTribal Canoe Journey took place July 31 - August 5 , 2006 and for the first time in Canoe Journey history, the host tribe was the Muckleshoot Indian Tribe of Auburn, Wash

Emmett Oliver, an 89-year-old Quinault tribal member, revitalized the annual canoe journey among Northwest tribes in modern times when he organized the "Paddle to Seattle" for Washington State’s centennial in 1989.

And, these are the types of jobs that are available to Natives on the res:

https://www.muckleshoot.nsn.us/Images/Eugene.jpg

<TABLE width=845 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>Congratulations to Eugene Brown for receiving the MIT Employee of the Month Award for November 2007.
As the Senior PC Support Technician it is Eugene's job to support all of the computers used by MIT employees which is no small task. Eugene is always customer oriented and strives to give quality support to all. Eugene has demonstrated his technical abilities by attaining Microsoft certifications in several areas. He continues to improve his technical abilities and has become a great asset to the IT department and tribal administration overall. Please congratulate Eugene when you see him for a job well done. Eugene thank you for the excellence demonstrated in all that you do for the MIT IT Department and the Muckleshoot Indian Tribe.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

This are the kinds of jobs offered at the Muckleshoot casino to Native and non-Natives, hardly poverty wages:

JOB TITLE: Gaming Manager II In-House

SALARY: $64,768 Annually

DEPARTMENT: Tribal Gaming Agency

CLOSES: Open Until Filled

LICENSES OR CERTIFICATIONS REQUIRED: A valid Washington State driver’s license is required at the time of appointment or at a time set by the Tribe. Graduation from the Washington State Basic Reserve Law Enforcement Training Academy or equivalent is be required at the time of appointment.

RANGE: 17-1 STATUS: Exempt

UTCPS SYSTEM TITLE: Gaming Enforcement Supervisor

POSITION REPORTS TO:

JOB SUMMARY: Under general supervision, plans, organizes and supervises gaming agents in monitoring gaming operations and conducting investigations for the Tribal Gaming Commission.


JOB TITLE: Gaming Surveillance Manager Job# GAM-041506-SM

SALARY: $81,813 Annually

DEPARTMENT: Tribal Gaming Agency

LICENSES OR CERTIFICATIONS REQUIRED: Bachelor’s degree in Criminal Justice or related area from a four (4) year college or university, and four (4) to six (6) years related experience and/or training, or an equivalent combination of education and experience.

UTCPS SYSTEM TITLE: same

POSITION REPORTS TO: Tribal Gaming Agency Deputy Director

JOB SUMMARY: Responsible for the successful direction of all activities in the Surveillance Division, to ensure the protection of assets, compliance with gaming regulations, and the safety of guests and employees.

[Braggi]

The next thing you'll want is a dry town. Just like alcohol, gambling can be like a drug. But, like prohibition, outlawing gambling will not stop an addict from gambling their paycheck away. There's always internet gambling, and that's available 24 hours a day, anywhere.
[snip]


So, are you saying like alcohol, gambling should be legal in CA and anyone should be able to open a casino?


...

If you want to regulate something, why not the expansion of vineyards that have changed the landscape of this county from grasslands, wetlands and chaparral (habitat that supported the wildlife and native peoples of this land) to purely agricultural land that produces a product that we don't really need, and is, like gambling, a drug. Something makes me think that you wouldn't want to give up your glass of zin with dinner for the sake of the environment.

You know, you make a very good point here. I think the vineyard expansion in our area is pretty outrageous. I think it should be regulated. In recent years a very minimal set of guidelines has been agreed upon that limit placement of vineyards in Sonoma County, but I would like to see a much more restrictive set.

-Jeff

PS. We can be pretty sure the props in question will be passed, so this discussion won't make a lot of difference. I do think it makes sense to limit casino expansion, but I'm just a non gambler who likes maximizing quality of life locally and minimizing traffic where reasonable. I have a friend who lives on the road to River Rock Casino. He hates the 24 hr a day traffic.

[Dark Shadows]

Gambling is legal in California, on Indian land. Whether anyone should be able to open a casino is up to your people. If it were me, and as I said before I'm not registered to vote in California, I probably would vote against an initiative allowing "anyone" to open a casino, because that would mean less revenue for the tribes.

However, we (you) have far too many laws as it is. No one is exempt from being persecuted for violating a law they never knew existed. But how are we to keep track of the hundreds of laws, (written in legalese I might add)that are in place? And you want to complicate matters by adding more laws and regulations? Tell me, is this the free country that Thomas Jefferson imagined? Who would have known at that time (1776) that Americans would see fit to enact so many laws?

The tribes that came to sign a treaty with the Great White Father never knew the implications of such a document and that it was considered okay for the White people to lie, while the Red people were living up to the terms of the agreement. These pacts and treaties are worthless, they restrict the vulnerable and benefit dishonest, sly and tricky lawmakers and politicians.

Okay, you're a non-gambler and you want to "limit" casino expansion. Well, I don't like fried foods and I'd like to "limit" any restaurant, or even some of my relatives that serve it. Do you see what I'm getting at?



So, are you saying like alcohol, gambling should be legal in CA and anyone should be able to open a casino?



You know, you make a very good point here. I think the vineyard expansion in our area is pretty outrageous. I think it should be regulated. In recent years a very minimal set of guidelines has been agreed upon that limit placement of vineyards in Sonoma County, but I would like to see a much more restrictive set.

-Jeff

PS. We can be pretty sure the props in question will be passed, so this discussion won't make a lot of difference. I do think it makes sense to limit casino expansion, but I'm just a non gambler who likes maximizing quality of life locally and minimizing traffic where reasonable. I have a friend who lives on the road to River Rock Casino. He hates the 24 hr a day traffic.

[Braggi]

I heard an absurd ad on the radio today for these propositions. It threatened that California's deficit would continue and grow if we didn't pass these props and all would be well if we did and revenues would swell the treasury of California. It also said money generated from these props will pay for the 70 poorest tribes in California and implied that if we vote no these tribes will get no money.

What lies!

There is no guarantee that taking money California citizens earn and giving it to Las Vegas gambling interests will increase California tax revenues one cent. The studies haven't been done but it doesn't take a genius to see that taking money out of circulation and sending it to another state won't help California much.

The poorest tribes already get a set amount of money from the four tribes that stand to benefit from these propositions. NO MORE MONEY will go to these 70 poorest tribes if the props pass and no less will go to them if the props fail.

Lies. Vote no!

-Jeff

PS. Just got a mailer that says the same crap.

PPS. The four tribes in question are already making a lot of money from gambling and will continue to do so if the props fail.

[Dark Shadows]

This was most likely an ad funded by Arnold cronies. The pact is obviously a way for a politician like Arnold who shakes your hand and smiles in your face while swiping the wallot from your pocket, to take advantage of the Red man's generosity.

Do me a favor Braggi, read the report I posted about the history of gambling in the US, it could change your mind. I don't see you as Puritan in nature, but maybe I was wrong.

You also ignored, again what I wrote about over legislating. You might want to go back to the history books and read a little about Thomas Jefferson's view on limiting government.

Also, take a look about what Mike Gravel (Indpendent Party candidate) has to say about simplifying the convoluted way laws are made today.


I heard an absurd ad on the radio today for these propositions. It threatened that California's deficit would continue and grow if we didn't pass these props and all would be well if we did and revenues would swell the treasury of California. It also said money generated from these props will pay for the 70 poorest tribes in California and implied that if we vote no these tribes will get no money.

What lies!

There is no guarantee that taking money California citizens earn and giving it to Las Vegas gambling interests will increase California tax revenues one cent. The studies haven't been done but it doesn't take a genius to see that taking money out of circulation and sending it to another state won't help California much.

The poorest tribes already get a set amount of money from the four tribes that stand to benefit from these propositions. NO MORE MONEY will go to these 70 poorest tribes if the props pass and no less will go to them if the props fail.

Lies. Vote no!

-Jeff

PS. Just got a mailer that says the same crap.

PPS. The four tribes in question are already making a lot of money from gambling and will continue to do so if the props fail.

["Mad" Miles]

FAYI,

I voted "yes" on all four. Went back and forth. The Alameda Greens consensed for no, I am sympathetic to the arguments against the money not being shared with other tribes. But, when it comes down to it, I side with Indians, whatever the "F" they want to do. Whatever is short of doing to "us" what "we" did and are doing to them, is OK by me.

Been busy this week and weekend, had not read this thread before, especially in the last three days.

By the way, I know Marty Bennett. Met him back in '02 when I got involved in the Living Wage Coalition of SonomaCo. He is VERY well informed on these matters, and totally dedicated to the betterment of working people in general. He's a dedicated union activist and scholar. He nearly drove me out of SCLWC because he's a control freak, but he's sincere and committed. Anything he claims is documentable. Just ask him.

But that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says.

"Las Vegas Gambling Interests"? Where did Lucky Luciano and Bugsy Siegal live before they invented Las Vegas? Check out the history.

When did we become so parochial? Oh, wait, this is Amurikkka... I sometimes forget.

"Out of state" money... WTF!?

Anybody know what Susan Sontag called California?

To paraphrase, "A Real Estate Scam since the beginning, and ever since."

Who you call'in "Native", Pilgrim?

A cousin of my great, great, grandfather came overland in 1842, from southwestern Indiana, he got kicked out of SF because he didn't have proper papers, was accosted by Mexican soldiers for poaching somebody's redwood lumber near Martinez, he and his buddy pulled their pieces and chased off the constabulary, then they hightailed it to Sacto, to avoid the reinforcements of the law, went off to Sonoma and joined the Bear Flag Revolt. Later he settled somewhere in the East Bay.

So, he was an illegal immigrant, thief, armed scofflaw, absconding felon and an insurrectionist. A fine example of American citizenship and Manifest Destiny in action.

And we want to tell the surviving descendents of the "original settlers" (a highly debatable point, I know) what to do. When they have sovereign treaty status.

(That's where I part company with you Dark Shadows, don't be so ready to give up what little you've got!)

Uh, Unghh, NOT "F" On!!!!

A Lutta Continua!

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[Dark Shadows]

Miles,
I don't believe I've ever debated/discussed matters with you in this venue before, so please excuse me if I'm not familiar with your writing style. I don't know what you are trying to tell me:

And we want to tell the surviving descendents of the "original settlers" (a highly debatable point, I know) what to do. When they have sovereign treaty status.

(That's where I part company with you Dark Shadows, don't be so ready to give up what little you've got!)

I'm not too blog savvy, so please tell me in plain English what you mean. I would ask you to tell me in plain Yoeme, but, its complicated.

I will be on a spiritual retreat starting tomorrow, and I will try to swear off of addicting, blog like behavior (Lenten season, you know) till after Easter. Just dropping out for awhile-don't let them get the better of me SantaRosie!

Tenveria

https://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:d8XWFJJwLV0f_M:https://www.usbr.gov/mp/ccao/field_offices/lake_berryessa/photo_gallery/wildflowers/jimson_weed.jpg





FAYI,

I voted "yes" on all four. Went back and forth. The Alameda Greens consensed for no, I am sympathetic to the arguments against the money not being shared with other tribes. But, when it comes down to it, I side with Indians, whatever the "F" they want to do. Whatever is short of doing to "us" what "we" did and are doing to them, is OK by me.

Been busy this week and weekend, had not read this thread before, especially in the last three days.

By the way, I know Marty Bennett. Met him back in '02 when I got involved in the Living Wage Coalition of SonomaCo. He is VERY well informed on these matters, and totally dedicated to the betterment of working people in general. He's a dedicated union activist and scholar. He nearly drove me out of SCLWC because he's a control freak, but he's sincere and committed. Anything he claims is documentable. Just ask him.

But that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says.

"Las Vegas Gambling Interests"? Where did Lucky Luciano and Bugsy Siegal live before they invented Las Vegas? Check out the history.

When did we become so parochial? Oh, wait, this is Amurikkka... I sometimes forget.

"Out of state" money... WTF!?

Anybody know what Susan Sontag called California?

To paraphrase, "A Real Estate Scam since the beginning, and ever since."

Who you call'in "Native", Pilgrim?

A cousin of my great, great, grandfather came overland in 1842, from southwestern Indiana, he got kicked out of SF because he didn't have proper papers, was accosted by Mexican soldiers for poaching somebody's redwood lumber near Martinez, he and his buddy pulled their pieces and chased off the constabulary, then they hightailed it to Sacto, to avoid the reinforcements of the law, went off to Sonoma and joined the Bear Flag Revolt. Later he settled somewhere in the East Bay.

So, he was an illegal immigrant, thief, armed scofflaw, absconding felon and an insurrectionist. A fine example of American citizenship and Manifest Destiny in action.

And we want to tell the surviving descendents of the "original settlers" (a highly debatable point, I know) what to do. When they have sovereign treaty status.

(That's where I part company with you Dark Shadows, don't be so ready to give up what little you've got!)

Uh, Unghh, NOT "F" On!!!!

A Lutta Continua!

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

["Mad" Miles]

"Miles,

I don't believe I've ever debated/discussed matters with you in this venue before, so please excuse me if I'm not familiar with your writing style. I don't know what you are trying to tell me:

And we want to tell the surviving descendents of the "original settlers" (a highly debatable point, I know) what to do. When they have sovereign treaty status.

(That's where I part company with you Dark Shadows, don't be so ready to give up what little you've got!)

I'm not too blog savvy, so please tell me in plain English what you mean. I would ask you to tell me in plain Yoeme, but, its complicated. "


Dark Shadows,

What I meant was that anything a tribe wants to do on their sovereign territory (aka The Res) is their business and theirs alone. No other social, government, political or economic entity should have any say in the matter. The "we" I refer to is the dominant society in this state and country.

I also alluded to the difference in origin stories for Indians (in the Americas), "original settlers, a highly debatable point".

The anthropological/genetic one from Western science (landbridge and all that) and the creation tales of most tribes which claim residence from the beginning of time, or some variation on that theme.

That's it, I wasn't trying to be obtuse. I was just in a hurry after a long, exhausting day.

I wonder if members of specific tribes have similar thoughts and feelings to what many Africans report. There is no one thing called "Africa". There are many nations, languages, cultures and the legal entities called nation states that are based on the European colonialist carving up of the continent which intentionally divided ethnic groups for the purpose of conquest. So what it means to be African is a crazy quilt of all of the above, a variegated identity made up of many, often contradictory, specific things. And because of the huge diversity there, the concept of a uniform identity for all Africans is pretty much an empty concept. Credit due to Jomo Kenyatta and the other Pan-African leaders for attempting to forge such an identity.

Hope you had a good retreat,

"Mad" Miles


:burngrnbounce:

[Dark Shadows]

Miles,

That is what I was trying to convey the entire time. That we don't need a pact with the government saying that we have to give them a certain percentage of casino earnings. The South Alliance is simply doing it to get the Governator off their back, probably easier than going to court and waiting to find out the outcome. They'd lose more money waiting than they would giving up some of their earnings to California. Nobody is saying exactly where that money is going, by the way. Don't you think they might be a little more forthright about it? California's roads are abominable, the healthcare system inadequate, and the schools are some of the worst in the country. Where do you think that money will go? Maybe some nice pencil holders or desk blotters for the bozos in the House of Representatives? Or how about a gold plated letter opener for Arnold? Heated towels for the Men's room? Or maybe an upgrade to the per diem allowance for the Administration? Yeah I think that sounds about right.

I feel a deep sense of belonging to my own tribe, and loyalty to other tribes who have gone through a lot of the same things as we have. We are genetically related and to be in a place where you don't feel different is a very comforting thing - this is why we have big multi-Nation pow-wows. We also like to check out what other tribes are doing when it comes to dancing, drumming and singing. Of course, there is some in-fighting between the tribes, superstitions, i.e., that Navajos are witches and prejudices, i.e., West Coast natives not as sophisticated as Southwest natives.

Now starts the too much information area, so you can stop reading if you want:

Regarding creation theories, my religion is a complicated subject to go into right now. It is a blending of Catholicism and traditional (Yoeme, Surim) beliefs that support and don't contradict each other. Our (Yaqui's / Yoeme) goal and work is to try to reverse the harm that was done to our worlds (animal, flower, people and death), Easter time and rituals are very important to this. I know, sounds a little weird, but it works for me. My Grandmother's tribe is another story, and since she was a twin - she had to leave the tribal group. The Kickapoo are afraid of twins and feel that if a twin is born to a tribe that someone's going to die. She was also scarred (cut on the temple) by her mother so that she would be different than her twin sister. Kind of scary stuff, huh? While I loved my grandmother I really didn't relate to her religion (she was kind of quiet about it), and she married a Yaqui anyway, so our identification what with my grandfather's tribe. My grandfather was a pretty cool guy, you'd probably like him if you knew him, very intelligent (college / jesuit educated) and fun loving. The Surim are the ones that refused to be baptized (most Yaquis are devout Catholics) and fled to the mountains in order to escape the jesuits who were intent on baptizing everyone in sight. I respect their indpendent spirit, but because of this they are the poorest of the Yaquis and have no federally-recognized tribal affiliation. Who says you've got to be federally recognized to exist anyway?

I married a Yurok and had a child, which further mixed up our bloodline. Yuroks are West Coast natives and Yaquis are from the Southwest. A crazy quilt as well.

If you are interested in reading about traditional creation theories try looking up:
Coatlicue: An Aztec Creation Story in Two Versions



"Miles,

I don't believe I've ever debated/discussed matters with you in this venue before, so please excuse me if I'm not familiar with your writing style. I don't know what you are trying to tell me:

And we want to tell the surviving descendents of the "original settlers" (a highly debatable point, I know) what to do. When they have sovereign treaty status.

(That's where I part company with you Dark Shadows, don't be so ready to give up what little you've got!)

I'm not too blog savvy, so please tell me in plain English what you mean. I would ask you to tell me in plain Yoeme, but, its complicated. "


Dark Shadows,

What I meant was that anything a tribe wants to do on their sovereign territory (aka The Res) is their business and theirs alone. No other social, government, political or economic entity should have any say in the matter. The "we" I refer to is the dominant society in this state and country.

I also alluded to the difference in origin stories for Indians (in the Americas), "original settlers, a highly debatable point".

The anthropological/genetic one from Western science (landbridge and all that) and the creation tales of most tribes which claim residence from the beginning of time, or some variation on that theme.

That's it, I wasn't trying to be obtuse. I was just in a hurry after a long, exhausting day.

I wonder if members of specific tribes have similar thoughts and feelings to what many Africans report. There is no one thing called "Africa". There are many nations, languages, cultures and the legal entities called nation states that are based on the European colonialist carving up of the continent which intentionally divided ethnic groups for the purpose of conquest. So what it means to be African is a crazy quilt of all of the above, a variegated identity made up of many, often contradictory, specific things. And because of the huge diversity there, the concept of a uniform identity for all Africans is pretty much an empty concept. Credit due to Jomo Kenyatta and the other Pan-African leaders for attempting to forge such an identity.

Hope you had a good retreat,

"Mad" Miles


:burngrnbounce:

["Mad" Miles]

Santarosie,

Splain'in,

FAYI = For All Your Information (Not standard, idiosyncratic, but so am I sometimes.)

"F" On = Fuck On, an affirmation, see (https://www.waccobb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30178).

A Lutta Continua = The Struggle Continues, or Goes On, Italian, a popular expression from the Left Radical Youth movements of the Sixties in Italy.

Made ya think!

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:


Dark Shadows,

Thanks for the response, very interesting. I appreciate the details.

"M"M