The Evolution of God

[Braggi]

I'm going to hit and run here because it's late, but I'd like observations and opinions on this one.

Why did humanity create Gods and Goddesses?

What purposes did and do they serve?

How and why did we make the move from poly theism to monotheism and for God's sake, why does anyone think monotheism is more advanced in any way than poly theism?

How do the earliest Gods compare to current notions of God? Why?

-Jeff

[Frederick M. Dolan]

I'm going to hit and run here because it's late, but I'd like observations and opinions on this one.

Why did humanity create Gods and Goddesses?

What purposes did and do they serve?

How and why did we make the move from poly theism to monotheism and for God's sake, why does anyone think monotheism is more advanced in any way than poly theism?

How do the earliest Gods compare to current notions of God? Why?

-Jeff

Excellent questions!!

[Valley Oak]

I will offer my honest opinion:

I don't know.

This said, I have asked the same questions myself many times but especially the replacement question (why monotheism came about). I will speculate: My only far flung guess is that the 'people' were Pagan but the aristocracy and other wealthy and power brokers of the day wanted complete control over all land, people, wealth, and absolute authority. The more power a monarchy had, the more money, and the bigger the armies to conquer yet more lands. I have heard that when a 'witch' was accused and executed, her (or 'his' although less often) property was confiscated by the same authorities that convicted her and tortured her to death in public. This served to destroy the allegiance the townsfolk had for the local wise women and crones, forcing almost all of the rural communities throughout the kingdom (often with a new monarch because of wars) to accept the new christian authority out of sheer terror and fear for their lives and property. I also heard that the christian church and royal courts were frustrated and infuriated when villages ignored the 'priest' that tried to set up shop because villagers already had the old religion and people they looked to for spiritual guidance, wisdom, and medicine. Eventually, as Europe grew more christian (through the genocide of millions of women), the christianized kingdoms tended to band together and threaten, invade, and boycott the 'infidel' nations. The Spanish Inquisition is a historical case in point.

But I have to admit that I have cobbled together rumors and lively conversation more than any solid research.

Regarding why humans chose deities to believe in, I have always felt satisfied with the notion, shared by many, that people have always had a need to explain reality: Why were there deadly natural disasters? Why did my loved one die? What is life? Why did my crop fail? Why am I sick? What are the stars? Etc, etc, etc? In the hopelessly simple mind's perception of life, deities (a big man or woman in the sky) were the only possible sources for 'explanations.' Of course, the gods often had the form of humans, humanized gods that had the same vices as people themselves (what a mystery there).

But maybe this too is a simplistic answer. Maybe it's too easy to look down my nose at a more humble human, completely ignorant, hungry and sick almost all the time, scared, and cold. Yes, I guess I'll just have to use my snazzy technological time machine again and go back a few million years and share a delicious meal of leaves, berries, and rotten meat with my ancestors!

Edward


I'm going to hit and run here because it's late, but I'd like observations and opinions on this one.

Why did humanity create Gods and Goddesses?

What purposes did and do they serve?

How and why did we make the move from poly theism to monotheism and for God's sake, why does anyone think monotheism is more advanced in any way than poly theism?

How do the earliest Gods compare to current notions of God? Why?

-Jeff

[Braggi]

Why did humanity create Gods and Goddesses?

What purposes did and do they serve?


The current wisdom is that the original notions of deity were personifications of Natural powers. A powerful example to me is old Cronos or Father Time. He was the Titan who ate his children.

I was horrified by this notion as a child, but I now realize that Time does "eat" His children and we wouldn't have it any other way. We all grow old and die (assuming a "natural" life as we have come to know it). In the Greek myths the Gods and Goddesses fathered by Cronos come back to life because, after all, they are Gods and by definition are immortal.

The fecund, heavy-breasted Goddess known by ten thousand names and the often nameless phallus were the original fertility symbols. These were, and still should be in my opinion, the primary deities in any spiritual cosmology. Without procreative sex we die. Sex is something worth celebrating and treating with the utmost respect, consciousness and care. This is the sacred wisdom of the most ancient peoples from around the world and it is written in the archeological record despite monotheism's best efforts to eradicate it from the collective awareness.

Earth, Sun and Sea all have various deities around the world that reflect the importance of these necessary parts of life.

The main reasons for deifying all these aspects of our reality is not to elevate them in some way to a place greater than any other aspect of life, but as a way to show respect and even awe at the power of these natural forces and as an admission that we are indeed subservient to these forces. As a teaching tool for children what could be more powerful than to deify the natural powers as a way of building respect at an early age. Respect is the first step in learning to care for and building a desire to study and get to know in an intimate way the powers that guarantee eternal Life on planet Earth.

-Jeff

[MsTerry]

This is not an accurate statement, and I am surprised to hear you make it
All religions had One Supreme Being with a bunch of subgods.
Christianity still has the Holy trinity, Saints, prophets and Valley Oak.






How and why did we make the move from poly theism to monotheism and for God's sake, why does anyone think monotheism is more advanced in any way than poly theism?-Jeff

[lifequest]

An interesting book I read a while back (The Gift of the Jews by a Catholic Thomas Cahill) surmised that with Abraham and the slow development of monotheism, the value and importance of the individual was fostered and with it the potential to become something apart from age old roles and hierarchies. Also the view of history as linear with a beginning and end instead of an endless predictable (and comforting) cycle.

[Valley Oak]

(I have edited this post)

This is fascinating. If I'm not mistaken, Cronos killed his father, Uranus, and that Cronos himself was killed by Zeus. Zeus, one of Cronos' many children, was saved by his mother, who gave Cronos a stone wrapped in cloth in Zeus' place. So did Zeus kill time or conquer it somehow? I'm curious to know the meaning behind the rest of the story of Greek mythology regarding what you said in your post. Cronos ate his children to avoid being killed himself, which obviously happened anyway (with mommy's help, of course). I wonder if there is a small element of the Oedipus story here as well?

Regarding what you said about respect, I found it interesting and am slightly familiar with it myself (wink). I'm going to surmise that if everyone in our society had been taught this respect for natural forces, hence our environment and life, then the Kyoto Protocol would not have been canceled by a U.S. administration and global warming would not be an issue either.

Edward



The current wisdom is that the original notions of deity were personifications of Natural powers. A powerful example to me is old Cronos or Father Time. He was the Titan who ate his children.

I was horrified by this notion as a child, but I now realize that Time does "eat" His children and we wouldn't have it any other way. We all grow old and die (assuming a "natural" life as we have come to know it). In the Greek myths the Gods and Goddesses fathered by Cronos come back to life because, after all, they are Gods and by definition are immortal.

The fecund, heavy-breasted Goddess known by ten thousand names and the often nameless phallus were the original fertility symbols. These were, and still should be in my opinion, the primary deities in any spiritual cosmology. Without procreative sex we die. Sex is something worth celebrating and treating with the utmost respect, consciousness and care. This is the sacred wisdom of the most ancient peoples from around the world and it is written in the archeological record despite monotheism's best efforts to eradicate it from the collective awareness.

Earth, Sun and Sea all have various deities around the world that reflect the importance of these necessary parts of life.

The main reasons for deifying all these aspects of our reality is not to elevate them in some way to a place greater than any other aspect of life, but as a way to show respect and even awe at the power of these natural forces and as an admission that we are indeed subservient to these forces. As a teaching tool for children what could be more powerful than to deify the natural powers as a way of building respect at an early age. Respect is the first step in learning to care for and building a desire to study and get to know in an intimate way the powers that guarantee eternal Life on planet Earth.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

This is not an accurate statement, and I am surprised to hear you make it
All religions had One Supreme Being with a bunch of subgods.
Christianity still has the Holy trinity, Saints, prophets and Valley Oak.


Stop being so certain. It's so much easier to learn with an open mind.

Besides that, you're responding to something I didn't say.

-Jeff

[MsTerry]

???

Braggi;48035]
Stop being so certain. It's so much easier to learn with an open mind.

I am going to have assume that you are not able to hear other people's opinions when they don't match yours. Otherwise it is a puzzle to me why you feel the need to lash out at me. Sometimes it is easier to project your own shortcomings onto others and lash it out in anger.


Besides that, you're responding to something I didn't say.You did say we are shifting from poly to mono theism. So it is a matter of semantics, saints or Gods. Maybe you never had the experience of praying to a saint, and therefore it doesn't exist.

[Neshamah]

In the spirit of oversimplification:

Concepts of G-d generally start by ascribing human traits to natural forces. Over time, people come to realize all the natural forces are related. Matter and energy are two forms of the same thing. Many (though not all) so-called polytheistic worldviews actually recognize a supreme, indescribable reality behind the finite, describable representations they keep in their homes.

I suppose you could also believe in super beings that are just really special humans. In Rome, before Christianity became official, I think the standard definition of a god was anyone who had an unusual birth and was immortal. Calling the First Citizen a god was simply a matter of patriotism. Lots of Romans with unusual births may really have believed they were gods until they saw their own blood.

Valley Oak, did you have an unusual birth?

~ Neshamah

[shellebelle]

I think explanation, fear, rationalization and control were the key components to creating gods and goddesses.

To stop fear from reigning some one came up with an explanation; a rationalization which gained them control maybe unwittingly originally but eventually it became intentional.

How much was truth, how much was fiction - hard to say because every great story teller adds to the story and at some point power and control became the agenda not reigning in fear - just look at any politician and or original missionaries for examples. Eventually both the controllers and the controlled were given new titles "taming savages" "civilizing" and today "economic revitalization" "Iraq War" etc




I'm going to hit and run here because it's late, but I'd like observations and opinions on this one.

Why did humanity create Gods and Goddesses?

What purposes did and do they serve?

How and why did we make the move from poly theism to monotheism and for God's sake, why does anyone think monotheism is more advanced in any way than poly theism?

How do the earliest Gods compare to current notions of God? Why?

-Jeff

[Valley Oak]

This is an excellent view, at least it's one that I agree with a lot. In few words, your post begins to explain many things that are important to us as individuals and as a society even today, and not just from a historical and cultural outlook.

One of the things that came up for me when I read this message is the idea of exploiting religion as a weapon. Although I may be off track with what you are trying to say, I find fascinating the use of religious faith as a weapon of war, the control of one social class over another, the source of most laws in our country, behavior training in rearing children, and the list goes on and on.

I remember in one of my history classes at SSU, our instructor explained how an African tribe struggling for independence from a colonizing European power used religious faith in the battle field. The odds were pathetically against the African tribe, which did not have modern armament that could compare to the mechanized army of the foreign power. The religious leader explained to the 'soldiers' of the African nation that they did not need to fear the bullets from the modern army if they had enough faith in their God(s)/Goddess(s). If anyone died, it was simply a matter of lack of faith on the part of that tribesman. The bullets would "turn to water" and not be able to hurt anyone with enough faith.

Against all odds, the tribesman defeated the European army. However, it was horrific to see how many 'unfaithful' there were!!! But of course, that is not a loss.

Simply apply this principle of exploitation of religious faith for all other examples of power and coercion and you will definitely see a pattern that is repeated everywhere in our society today. Just another quick example, there isn't a single, openly atheist or agnostic presidential candidate running for office, or at least none that have an even remote chance of winning. That shows just how easily the public lends itself to being used ruthlessly and unscrupulously.

I remember a song by an old rock band called, 'Rush,' if I remember correctly. My favorite song of theirs was, 'Today's Tom Sawyer,' '...whose mind did not belong to any god or government...'

Edward



I think explanation, fear, rationalization and control were the key components to creating gods and goddesses.

To stop fear from reigning some one came up with an explanation; a rationalization which gained them control maybe unwittingly originally but eventually it became intentional.

How much was truth, how much was fiction - hard to say because every great story teller adds to the story and at some point power and control became the agenda not reigning in fear - just look at any politician and or original missionaries for examples. Eventually both the controllers and the controlled were given new titles "taming savages" "civilizing" and today "economic revitalization" "Iraq War" etc

[shellebelle]

Yes you are the same path as my thought. And the consequences can definitely be death. So religion like money are tools of manipulation often for someone elses gain.



This is an excellent view, at least it's one that I agree with a lot. In few words, your post begins to explain many things that are important to us as individuals and as a society even today, and not just from a historical and cultural outlook.

One of the things that came up for me when I read this message is the idea of exploiting religion as a weapon. Although I may be off track with what you are trying to say, I find fascinating the use of religious faith as a weapon of war, the control of one social class over another, the source of most laws in our country, behavior training in rearing children, and the list goes on and on.

I remember in one of my history classes at SSU, our instructor explained how an African tribe struggling for independence from a colonizing European power used religious faith in the battle field. The odds were pathetically against the African tribe, which did not have modern armament that could compare to the mechanized army of the foreign power. The religious leader explained to the 'soldiers' of the African nation that they did not need to fear the bullets from the modern army if they had enough faith in their God(s)/Goddess(s). If anyone died, it was simply a matter of lack of faith on the part of that tribesman. The bullets would "turn to water" and not be able to hurt anyone with enough faith.

Against all odds, the tribesman defeated the European army. However, it was horrific to see how many 'unfaithful' there were!!! But of course, that is not a loss.

Simply apply this principle of exploitation of religious faith for all other examples of power and coercion and you will definitely see a pattern that is repeated everywhere in our society today. Just another quick example, there isn't a single, openly atheist or agnostic presidential candidate running for office, or at least none that have an even remote chance of winning. That shows just how easily the public lends itself to being used ruthlessly and unscrupulously.

I remember a song by an old rock band called, 'Rush,' if I remember correctly. My favorite song of theirs was, 'Today's Tom Sawyer,' '...whose mind did not belong to any god or government...'

Edward