Please go to https://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?page_id=209
to write your congressperson to help stop forced vaccinations.
This is through the wonderful Natural
Solutions Foundation which someone recently bashed on waccoBB saying it made up the story about the mother who was jailed for not allowing her son to have chemo for his cancer. You can go to https://www.dareland.com/freep/issue207.htm to read the story (you need to scroll down a little to get to the story). Please people let's not declare something as fraudulent before getting all the facts!
Braggi
11-20-2007, 08:40 PM
That "article" is so full of bull it's hard to know if the basic facts of the "case" are true. I still haven't seen anything on this from a credible source. I'll keep an open mind but so far there's not much there that's believable.
If the "black salve" really does cure "stage 4 melanoma" I'd like to buy a couple tankers full.
I'm not in favor of forced vaccinations, but I don't want unvaccinated kids going to school with my daughter. They pose a danger to others as well as to themselves.
You can't easily legislate good judgement.
-Jeff
shellebelle
11-20-2007, 08:55 PM
I don't know much about this but just my :2cents: . My friend is dying from a vaccination (some of which were forced upon the service people) given during the Gulf War (1991) aka Gulf War Syndrome (details are googlable) and if I read it all correctly (which is hard through rivers of tears) it may have been created by the same company who so graciously forced inoculated and created AIDS. So I think vaccinations are something that should be explored more but I'm not sure who should do that exploring.
That "article" is so full of bull it's hard to know if the basic facts of the "case" are true. I still haven't seen anything on this from a credible source. I'll keep an open mind but so far there's not much there that's believable.
If the "black salve" really does cure "stage 4 melanoma" I'd like to buy a couple tankers full.
I'm not in favor of forced vaccinations, but I don't want unvaccinated kids going to school with my daughter. They pose a danger to others as well as to themselves.
You can't easily legislate good judgement.
-Jeff
Braggi
11-20-2007, 09:04 PM
I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. I think the biggest problem with vaccinations is that too many are given at once. When we did it we had them spread out over a much longer time than is usually done and didn't do so many at once.
I think the military is a worst case scenario since recruits are forced to undergo procedures with so many vaccinations at once without even being told what's in them. I've heard in the '91 brutality a lot of the vaccinations they used were "experimental." Sounds like a bad idea to give experimental medications to thousands of young people.
Again, I'm very sorry to hear about your friend.
-Jeff
shellebelle
11-20-2007, 09:21 PM
Thank you - I'm rather heart broken and angry. Sadly these companies despite being unlawful to experiment as they did do so under the protection of the government and now are not supporting the people they hurt. I am somewhat fearful our kids could be next in the lie.
I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. I think the biggest problem with vaccinations is that too many are given at once. When we did it we had them spread out over a much longer time than is usually done and didn't do so many at once.
I think the military is a worst case scenario since recruits are forced to undergo procedures with so many vaccinations at once without even being told what's in them. I've heard in the '91 brutality a lot of the vaccinations they used were "experimental." Sounds like a bad idea to give experimental medications to thousands of young people.
Again, I'm very sorry to hear about your friend.
-Jeff
Kunnskaping
11-20-2007, 09:41 PM
Please go to https://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?page_id=209
to write your congressperson to help stop forced vaccinations.
The article to which you have linked refers to S. 1873 and H.R. 3970.
S. 1873 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-1873) (the "Biodefense and Pandemic Vaccine and Drug Development Act of 2005") is dead as of the end of the previous Congress, there having been no action on it since 2005 and no attempt to vote on it having been made.
H.R. 3970 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-3970) is the completely unrelated and current effort to amend the alternative minimum tax, among other things.
The actual companion legislation to S. 1873 taken up by the House was H.R. 5533 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-5533), which was approved a year ago, just after the Republicans found out they were destined to be the minority party this year. But because the Senate never acted on the matter, both bills are dead.
Basically, the post that started this thread is spam. There is no reason to contact anyone anywhere about it, certainly not anyone in Congress. Please take a moment to just look things up before wasting anyone's time and energy by sounding the alarm over what may well be a non-issue, a in this case.
urlove
11-20-2007, 11:10 PM
I was searching the website for the latest info on vaccinations. I guess I got an older page. Here is the newest page for action to take: https://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/1128/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=21835
The article to which you have linked refers to S. 1873 and H.R. 3970.
S. 1873 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-1873) (the "Biodefense and Pandemic Vaccine and Drug Development Act of 2005") is dead as of the end of the previous Congress, there having been no action on it since 2005 and no attempt to vote on it having been made.
H.R. 3970 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-3970) is the completely unrelated and current effort to amend the alternative minimum tax, among other things.
The actual companion legislation to S. 1873 taken up by the House was H.R. 5533 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-5533), which was approved a year ago, just after the Republicans found out they were destined to be the minority party this year. But because the Senate never acted on the matter, both bills are dead.
Basically, the post that started this thread is spam. There is no reason to contact anyone anywhere about it, certainly not anyone in Congress. Please take a moment to just look things up before wasting anyone's time and energy by sounding the alarm over what may well be a non-issue, a in this case.
That web page is built on two big lies. It is actually very difficult to force psyche meds on someone who doesn't want them. About the only category of people that condition exists for is prisoners who smear feces in the cell or attempt suicide or who spend all day screaming at nothing in particular. Nobody is being pulled off the streets and forced to take psyche meds. What nonsense.
It's also all too easy to send kids to public schools without proper immunizations. That endangers everybody and recent outbreaks of whooping cough in Sonoma County give testimony to that point.
We are too lucky in this country and don't remember the horrors of polio. You should go to an old folks home and learn what it was like 60 years ago when people kept their kids indoors to prevent them from coming in contact with polio. You should talk to someone from another country who's actually seen someone die the horrible death of tetanus.
We have it too good and we have no memory of what it used to be like nor any vision of the coming plagues.
-Jeff
quirkypixie
11-21-2007, 07:38 AM
Jeff,
If your daughter is vaccinated, you have no reason to fear your daughter going to school with unvaccinated kids.
Terri
urlove
11-21-2007, 09:48 AM
I am not totally against all vaccinations. I just think we need to be careful and do research before we blindly stick our arms out. The web page noted the forced Hep B vaccine which I have personal experience with. I had it before I went to India and became jaundiced from it. It weakened my liver. I also had a parent I worked with who said that happened to her child. So each person/parent needs to make up their own mind, and hopefully we will always have that choice. We need to be vigilant to make sure we always have that choice.
That web page is built on two big lies. It is actually very difficult to force psyche meds on someone who doesn't want them. About the only category of people that condition exists for is prisoners who smear feces in the cell or attempt suicide or who spend all day screaming at nothing in particular. Nobody is being pulled off the streets and forced to take psyche meds. What nonsense.
It's also all too easy to send kids to public schools without proper immunizations. That endangers everybody and recent outbreaks of whooping cough in Sonoma County give testimony to that point.
We are too lucky in this country and don't remember the horrors of polio. You should go to an old folks home and learn what it was like 60 years ago when people kept their kids indoors to prevent them from coming in contact with polio. You should talk to someone from another country who's actually seen someone die the horrible death of tetanus.
We have it too good and we have no memory of what it used to be like nor any vision of the coming plagues.
-Jeff
OrchardDweller
11-21-2007, 08:32 PM
Children herded like cattle into Maryland courthouse for forced vaccinations as armed police and attack dogs stand guard
https://www.newstarget.com/022267.html
About the author: Mike Adams is a consumer health advocate with a strong interest in personal health, the environment and the power of nature to help us all heal He is a prolific writer and has published thousands of articles, interviews, reports and consumer guides, impacting the lives of millions of readers around the world who are experiencing phenomenal health benefits from reading his articles. Adams is a trusted, independent journalist who receives no money or promotional fees whatsoever to write about other companies' products. In 2007, Adams launched EcoLEDs, a manufacturer of mercury-free, energy-efficient LED lighting products that save electricity and help prevent global warming. He's also a noted technology pioneer and founded a software company in 1993 that developed the HTML email newsletter software currently powering the NewsTarget subscriptions. Adams is currently the executive director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a 501(c)3 non-profit, and regularly pursues cycling, nature photography, Capoeira and Pilates. Known by his callsign, the 'Health Ranger,' Adams posts his missions statements, health statistics and health photos at www.HealthRanger.org
Braggi
11-21-2007, 08:46 PM
Jeff,
If your daughter is vaccinated, you have no reason to fear your daughter going to school with unvaccinated kids.
Terri
Terri, I appreciate the sentiment, but it isn't necessarily true. Just as there are some people who will have a negative reaction to a vaccination (most of those involve a few days of illness, not something serious), there are some people who will not enjoy complete protection from an illness they've been vaccinated against. Anyone who's taken a "flu shot" knows it only works against a few strains of the flu, and there are others they are still susceptible to.
By vaccinating the vast majority of kids (95% or better) it's very unlikely any of these illness will show up at a school. But if one kid comes in sick, and several others who haven't been vaccinated also get sick, it's much more likely to spread even to some kids who have been vaccinated.
In order for vaccinations to work properly, the whole population, or at least the vast majority need to get them. That's what worked against polio and rubella. These illnesses used to wreak havoc in the US. You don't hear much about them anymore. Remember small pox? Didn't think so.
I wish it wasn't so, but my kid could get a fatal illness she has been vaccinated against from some other kid who was not.
-Jeff
Braggi
11-21-2007, 08:49 PM
I am not totally against all vaccinations. I just think we need to be careful and do research before we blindly stick our arms out. ...
I totally agree with that statement.
I also think some of the vaccinations now "recommended" for kids probably aren't necessary.
-Jeff
Braggi
11-21-2007, 08:53 PM
Children herded like cattle into Maryland courthouse for forced vaccinations as armed police and attack dogs stand guard
... (https://www.newstarget.com/022267.html)
Yeah, I heard about this. Disgusting. I think this is sooooo wrong. It only harms the cause. Education works so much better.
I'm really sorry this happened and I hope some people lose their jobs over it.
I'm almost certain some will.
-Jeff
quirkypixie
11-21-2007, 10:50 PM
Why would I take a chance with my childs health by having her vaccinated, only to find out the vaccination does not work? The chicken pox vaccine, for example, has not proven it even prevents the virus. I know at least 10 people who were vaccinated, only to get it! It didn't even lighten the case.
I don't vaccinate my child, there are too many risks. There was a time that they were needed, they did their job, and we didn't know any better. Now? There are too many questionable ingredients, and questionable business practices involved.
Terri
Braggi
11-22-2007, 09:47 AM
Why would I take a chance with my childs health by having her vaccinated, only to find out the vaccination does not work? The chicken pox vaccine, for example, has not proven it even prevents the virus. I know at least 10 people who were vaccinated, only to get it! It didn't even lighten the case.
I don't vaccinate my child, there are too many risks. There was a time that they were needed, they did their job, and we didn't know any better. Now? There are too many questionable ingredients, and questionable business practices involved.
Terri
It's always good to read up. Thanks for the inspiration.
By the way, can you name one of those "questionable ingredients?"
If your daughter is vaccinated, you have no reason to fear your daughter going to school with unvaccinated kids.
It is my opinion is that repeating inaccurate "facts" is a far more dangerous practice than giving children vaccinations ...
and then I heard you say this a few posts later
Why would I take a chance with my childs health by having her vaccinated, only to find out the vaccination does not work? The chicken pox vaccine, for example, has not proven it even prevents the virus. I know at least 10 people who were vaccinated, only to get it! It didn't even lighten the case.
it sounds like you are arguing against yourself ... or did you forget these ten people you know when you made your first statement?
Sorry if I seem like I'm being a smart ass, I just trying to decide if I should listen to what you have to say or not. Maybe you could slow down a little before making factual statements that you know to be inaccurate.
Also, could you site some source for your argument that vaccinations are too risky? Meaning, I'd like to see your support that getting vaccines is more dangerous then not getting them.
If it is just your opinion that's fine, but if you are going to state it as part of your argument I'd like to see your supporting figures.
OrchardDweller
11-22-2007, 10:53 AM
This is a very interesting 90 minute documentary:
Vaccinations - The Hidden Truth
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8610554679207090010
David Ayoub, M.D. goes through the relations of Mercury to Autism as well as its connections to “National Security Study Memorandum 200”; for population control. Showing its shocking connections to today’s G.A.V.I. Are powerful forces really trying to help the poor people or could it be for another agenda; the sterilization of the poor? This is an upsetting video, so brace yourself.
Mercury, Autism and the Global Vaccine Agenda
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6890106663412840646
Braggi
11-23-2007, 07:22 AM
This is an upsetting video, so brace yourself.
Mercury, Autism and the Global Vaccine Agenda
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6890106663412840646
Interesting productions, OrchardDweller. It would be interesting if any of it was true. It's not. Thimerisol was never a source of nerve damaging mercury. If you want to go after dangerous mercury in the environment, stop using electricity, because the number one source of mercury absorbed by people in the US is coal fired power plants.
Thimerisol was a safe preservative, never proven to cause harm to humans. The few molecules that contained mercury in each dose safely passed through the body, as intended by the manufacturers. However, since there was so much uninformed bad publicity by videos like these, thimerisol was dropped a a preservative several years ago, so it hasn't been an issue for some time.
Let's talk autism, shall we? And this really gets to the ignorance of the people shown in these videos. There are chemical markers for autism that can be tested for prenatally. Do you understand what that means? I know of no child that was ever immunized before birth, however, autism shows up before birth. I'll let you do the math.
These videos are bunk. Bull. Fageddabout it.
Immunize you child. Use your brains. Don't look to YouTube for health care information. YouTube is about entertainment, much less about education.
Also, look to what the naysayers are selling who don't think you should protect your children. The agenda is usually your money. They want your money.
Let's summarize: thimerisol was a preservative used in vaccines that was shown to be safe. It hasn't been used, at least in the US, for several years, so it's a non issue.
Autism shows up prenatally, so immunizations have no connection with autism.
Naysayers want your money or are sadly misinformed or both.
I don't doubt the sincerity of folks who don't want you to immunize your kids. But let them be the ones putting their kids at risk. Be smart. Be informed. Immunize your children.
-Jeff
PS. Oh, almost forgot, the rate of autism hasn't really been going up.
Neshamah
11-23-2007, 07:49 AM
The government is not omniscient. Whether or not a medication or vaccination is approved has as much to do with money as it does with science. People should be able to make informed decisions. If someone finds echinacea to be beneficial, the government should not prevent that person from taking it. If a person feels a vaccination has not been adequately tested, they have the moral right to refuse it for themselves and for their dependents.
If a vaccination really is beneficial, 95% of people will get it anyway. We do not need our corporate-greed directed government making our decisions for us.
~ Neshamah
Braggi
11-23-2007, 07:56 AM
... If a vaccination really is beneficial, 95% of people will get it anyway. We do not need our corporate-greed directed government making our decisions for us.
~ Neshamah
Agreed that people should make their own decisions. 95% is a pretty good number. However, there are communities where well meaning people have not immunized their kids in numbers that are shocking. West Sonoma County has some of the lowest immunization levels in the country. That's sad, because the level of education is supposed to be pretty high in this county. Marin same way.
I don't like to be forced by the government to do much of anything.
-Jeff
OrchardDweller
11-23-2007, 09:44 AM
Braggi, you're entitled to your own opinions and beliefs, and you're free to vaccinate your kids if you want. But for my kids, NO WAY!
I will not inject mercury, formaldehyde, monkey kidney cells, bovine gelatin, aluminum and MSG, to name a few, into my kids, no matter what the Big Pharma-backed government and corporate owned mainstream media tell me.
Mercury is good for you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZArebYZzdc
Do your own research people! And demand to see the ingredients if you do decide to vaccinate your kids. Autism has skyrocketed since the increase in "required" vaccinations, and has affected a nephew of mine.
Karl Frederick
11-23-2007, 10:14 PM
More food for thought . . .
The great thimerosal cover-up: Mercury, vaccines, autism and your child's health
https://www.newstarget.com/011764.html
Do your own research people! And demand to see the ingredients if you do decide to vaccinate your kids. Autism has skyrocketed since the increase in "required" vaccinations, and has affected a nephew of mine.
Braggi
11-24-2007, 12:21 PM
Thimerosal* hasn't been used in childhood vaccinations in the US since 2001, if I remember that right. So go ahead and bash yourself upon the rocks of logic and common sense. There isn't any mercury in childhood vaccinations. OK.
If you want some thimerosal, it's still used in flu shots, so you can get some there.
Good luck. Stay healthy. Be wise. Vaccinate your kids. Stop using YouTube as your one source of information. It's entertainment, folks.
Here's some science, if you care to learn: https://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/concerns/thimerosal.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/faq_vaccines.htm
-Jeff
*I usually misspell that word. Please forgive ...
urlove
11-24-2007, 01:07 PM
YouTube has everything (entertainment, truth and lies). It is up to us to do our own research and make up our own minds without someone telling us how it is. There is more that we don't know than we know. So just declaring something as true doesn't change anyone's mind. We can present the information and say, "check it out for yourself".
Thimerosal* hasn't been used in childhood vaccinations in the US since 2001, if I remember that right. So go ahead and bash yourself upon the rocks of logic and common sense. There isn't any mercury in childhood vaccinations. OK.
If you want some thimerosal, it's still used in flu shots, so you can get some there.
Good luck. Stay healthy. Be wise. Vaccinate your kids. Stop using YouTube as your one source of information. It's entertainment, folks.
Here's some science, if you care to learn: https://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/concerns/thimerosal.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/faq_vaccines.htm
-Jeff
*I usually misspell that word. Please forgive ...
OrchardDweller
11-24-2007, 06:27 PM
Here's a blog by parents of an autistic child. Also read the comments by other parents who made sure to look at the ingredients of the shots their kids were offered, and see what they found:
https://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2005/08/still-finding-thimerosal-in-doctors.html
Willie Lumplump
11-24-2007, 06:50 PM
the same company who so graciously forced inoculated and created AIDS.
You think that a company created AIDS? It's hard for me to believe that you really mean this.
shellebelle
11-24-2007, 06:55 PM
Yes google Persian Gulf Syndrome and read the article by the I believe its a Navy doctor. If I read it correctly AIDS was caused by a vaccination - I KNOW that Persian Gulf Syndrome was and that it well documented from LA Times to well Naval Doctors.
You think that a company created AIDS? It's hard for me to believe that you really mean this.
Willie Lumplump
11-24-2007, 06:58 PM
Autism has skyrocketed since the increase in "required" vaccinations, and has affected a nephew of mine.
And annual traffic deaths in London are correlated with the annual rainfall in Australia, but no one is proposing a causal relation there. In fact, spurious correlations are all around us; it's easy to pick out phenomena that are highly correlated but causally unrelated. Statistical correlations can be useful to scientists seeking clues about where they should direct their research, and in some cases correlations themselves may constitute good scientific evidence, but it's very easy to misuse statistics.
shellebelle
11-24-2007, 07:01 PM
Here I found it
https://www.staytuned.ws/articles/gulfwar.html
Yes google Persian Gulf Syndrome and read the article by the I believe its a Navy doctor. If I read it correctly AIDS was caused by a vaccination - I KNOW that Persian Gulf Syndrome was and that it well documented from LA Times to well Naval Doctors.
Willie Lumplump
11-24-2007, 07:04 PM
Yes google Persian Gulf Syndrome and read the article by the I believe its a Navy doctor. If I read it correctly AIDS was caused by a vaccination - I KNOW that Persian Gulf Syndrome was and that it well documented from LA Times to well Naval Doctors.
AIDS is caused by a retrovirus, HIV-1, that initially was limited to a primate such as a monkey or ape but through mutation gained the ability to infect a new host--man. What do you mean when you say that "AIDS was caused by a vaccination"? That statement makes no sense at all.
shellebelle
11-24-2007, 07:05 PM
Do the research you'll be scared it was supposedly a vaccine that used something from the monkey. I ran across it researching Gulf Syndrome and honestly there was far more info and far more advanced than I could process.
AIDS is caused by a retrovirus, HIV-1, that initially was limited to a primate such as a monkey or ape but through mutation gained the ability to infect a new host--man. What do you mean when you say that "AIDS was caused by a vaccination"? That statement makes no sense at all.
shellebelle
11-24-2007, 07:11 PM
There are lots of disputes whether it began here but even the "experts" agree that their was some monkey tissue in the polio vaccines. No one can prove and they thus feel they disprove it - right or wrong - I don't know but I think it definitely points to questionable use of trial vaccines given without knowledge they are trial vaccines. https://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/AIDS/
Do the research you'll be scared it was supposedly a vaccine that used something from the monkey. I ran across it researching Gulf Syndrome and honestly there was far more info and far more advanced than I could process.
Willie Lumplump
11-24-2007, 07:12 PM
It is up to us to do our own research and make up our own minds without someone telling us how it is.
I would dispute this. The state has an interest in protecting the unborn, and people do not have the right to expose anybody's unborn children, not even their own, to serious, even deadly diseases. If the vaccinations in question are for communicable diseases, the right of the state to intervene becomes even more clear. Once the proportion of children not vaccinated against a communicable disease climbs past a threshold, all unvaccinated children are at great risk for contracting the disease. In such a case the right of the community to protect itself must take priority over the rights of the individual.
OrchardDweller
11-24-2007, 07:13 PM
Brain Neuron Degeneration via Mercury
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHqVDMr9ivo
If you feel that any scientific data was misused here, I guess you can take it up with the University of Calgary, who produced this video.
OrchardDweller
11-24-2007, 07:51 PM
By the way, Homeland Security Bill, H.R. 5005, section 304, authorizes the forced vaccination of American citizens against small pox.
Braggi
11-24-2007, 08:20 PM
But OrchardD, we're talking about vaccinations here. There is no mercury in childhood vaccines.
-Jeff
Brain Neuron Degeneration via Mercury
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHqVDMr9ivo
If you feel that any scientific data was misused here, I guess you can take it up with the University of Calgary, who produced this video.
Braggi
11-24-2007, 08:23 PM
Sadly, I'm not surprised to hear it. I think it's bad law. If small pox is ever used as a bio weapon people will be knocking down the doors of medical centers demanding their shots. There's no need to make it law.
It just looks like another power grab. And yeah, I start to question their motives too.
-Jeff
By the way, Homeland Security Bill, H.R. 5005, section 304, authorizes the forced vaccination of American citizens against small pox.
OrchardDweller
11-24-2007, 08:38 PM
But OrchardD, we're talking about vaccinations here. There is no mercury in childhood vaccines.
-Jeff
Thimerosal is a mercury containing preservative. Thimerosal is still used in (at least some) vaccines. Mercury has been proven to be damaging to brain cells. That's why vaccines containing thimerosal have been banned all over the world, except for the US.
And if you have read the comments in the blogspot I posted earlier, you can see that the claim that "vaccines have been free of thimerosal since 2001" is a dangerous claim, causing parents that don't do the research to assume it is safe to have their babies injected with something that might cause the onset of autism. Not a risk to take lightly, I'd say.
And that's just one of the ingredients in vaccines that is harmful....
Care for some monkey kidney cells in your bloodstream? Or how about some bovine fetal tissue?
Braggi
11-24-2007, 09:08 PM
Thimerosal is a mercury containing preservative. Thimerosal is still used in (at least some) vaccines. ...
Only in flu shots. In eight major studies in recent years, thimerosal has been shown to be safe but it's not used in childhood vaccines and hasn't been for a long time. Argue with the CDC. It was never banned, BTW. It was removed for public relations reasons.
Mercury exposure isn't the cause of autism. Chemical markers that show a fetus is likely to have or develop autism can be tested for before birth. How could something that doesn't happen until after birth (vaccines) cause something that happens before birth?
The testimonials you are referring to are from people who are misguided. They are working from bad information. Just because a piece of bad information can be found in thousands of places doesn't make it true.
If 99.9% of scientists say global warming is a fact, why is it that the 0.01% who disagree get so much coverage in the "news?" If the HIV virus is shown to cause aids, but one doctor in 100,000 disagrees, how come so many videos of that guy can be found on YouTube.
Go figger.
I'm tired of this thread OrchardDweller and urlove. I just pray you won't have to explain why, as you're putting them in the hospital for polio treatments, you didn't vaccinate your kids when you had the chance. You know, polio still exists in some places on this global village and airlines carry people around. Even infected ones. Imagine looking your children in the eyes and explaining why you failed to protect them.
I've made a lot of mistakes, but that's not one of them.
-Jeff
OrchardDweller
11-24-2007, 09:37 PM
It's no use trying to have a conversation with you, since it's clear your mind has been made up and closed off to anything other than what mainstream media and the government/big pharma tell you, Jeff.
As for me, I want safe vaccines and I don't want the government forcing a needle in me or my children now or anytime.
Again, do your own research, people.
Zeno Swijtink
11-24-2007, 10:03 PM
/snip/
Again, do your own research, people.
Everybody here does their "own research." Nobody does "primary research," where you conduct experiments, do field studies, etc.
We are all doing secondary research at most, where we read and compare the result of original studies we trust. Or we read up on secondary sources we trust. Ot we just go with our gut feelings.
The difference is in what sources of information and analysis we trust. Maverick or main stream.
For any opinion you can find quotations from PhDs. [If you don't believe that write me and I can provide you one :wink: ]
Critical thinking comes in when you start exploring the literature that contradicts your opinion.
Braggi
11-24-2007, 10:17 PM
As for me, I want safe vaccines and I don't want the government forcing a needle in me or my children now or anytime.
On these things, we agree 100%.
There are also degrees of safety and cost/benefit analyses we must make. It's not entirely safe to drive my car, but I do. It's not 100% safe to vaccinate, but it's a lot safer than driving a car.
-Jeff
Zeno Swijtink
11-24-2007, 10:30 PM
There are also degrees of safety and cost/benefit analyses we must make. It's not entirely safe to drive my car, but I do. It's not 100% safe to vaccinate, but it's a lot safer than driving a car.
-Jeff
Except that in vaccinations one gets a benefit from other people receiving vaccinations while one has no direct benefit from other people driving their car.
alanora
11-25-2007, 09:16 AM
Does any one know if therapeutic titres have been induced with homeopathics? Interesting that essence of nothing could perform measurably.
Please go to https://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?page_id=209
to write your congressperson to help stop forced vaccinations.
This is through the wonderful Natural
Solutions Foundation which someone recently bashed on waccoBB saying it made up the story about the mother who was jailed for not allowing her son to have chemo for his cancer. You can go to https://www.dareland.com/freep/issue207.htm to read the story (you need to scroll down a little to get to the story). Please people let's not declare something as fraudulent before getting all the facts!
Zeno Swijtink
11-25-2007, 10:58 AM
By the way, Homeland Security Bill, H.R. 5005, section 304, authorizes the forced vaccination of American citizens against small pox.
The review and book below place the smallpox vaccination program in the wider context of responses to 9/11 and public health.
It's saddening that our political system is not able to go beyond the typical knee-jerk reaction. Maybe because too many politicians have a law degree background and just want to win the next lawsuit, rather than the background of engineers who wish to be remembered for a bridge that stood proud for generations??
Zeno
****
"This smallpox vaccination program was not coupled to overall public health development. Georges Benjamin (American Public Health Association) noted that single-minded attention to smallpox "sacrificed core public health activities." Rosner and Markowitz point to this program as an example of how federal dictates to the states were ill-fated, mismanaged, and detrimental to long-term infrastructure goals."
Science 19 October 2007:
Vol. 318. no. 5849, pp. 396 - 397
BOOKS
PUBLIC HEALTH:
A Crisis Is a Terrible Thing to Waste
Paul S. Keim*
Are We Ready?
Public Health Since 9/11
by David Rosner and Gerald Markowitz
University of California Press, Berkeley, and Milbank Memorial Fund, New York, 2006. 210 pp. $45, £26.95. ISBN 9780520249202. Paper, $16.95, £9.95. ISBN 9780520250383. California/Milbank Books on Health and the Public
With 9/11 setting the stage for the anthrax letter attacks, many of us in the United States were too busy to analyze the impact of this crisis on public health. We were, in fact, responding to the crisis in an all-too-consuming manner. As the adrenaline rush and crushing work load lightened, many U.S. biodefense leaders began to design a road map for infectious disease and public health efforts. The 2001 terrorist attacks provided the political impetus to create a sustainable biodefense infrastructure and skilled workforce for the longterm benefit of public health in the United States. Government is notorious for impulsive spending sprees that fade with a changing political environment. Was this for real, or the latest Washington knee-jerk reaction?
In Are We Ready? David Rosner and Gerald Markowitz revisit the events and actions of that time to determine if we have, indeed, wasted the opportunity to do something sustainable and with a long-term impact on public health. Rosner (a professor of public health and history at Columbia University) and Markowitz (a professor of history at the City University of New York) do this through extensive interviews of the individuals involved in New York City, as well as officials at the state and national levels, followed by analysis and recommendations. Their approach is based on largely anecdotal evidence, but they offer an impressive amount that is supported by numerous citations and interviews. The interviews are interwoven with a historical perspective and analysis, making for a compelling review.
The book covers the chaos in New York City following 9/11 and the anthrax letters incidents and how these events shifted priorities of public health. Not surprisingly, the authors document that the effects encompassed every aspect of life in the city. From high school administrators to the governor, uncertainty about the dangers and responsibilities was common. But so too were tales of leadership, coordination, and unselfishness--such as the story of seniors, who had lived through previous disasters and wars, comforting their caregivers. While the political leadership played a role, Rosner and Markowitz are more skeptical than past and current sound bites about its importance. Their presentation places the events in the context of New York political and social history. They conclude that the effectiveness of New York's response was only partially due to the contemporary political leadership and more due to institutional structures built over many years.
Long-neglected state public health departments were suddenly in the limelight after 9/11, with newfound importance to their governments and citizens. Ronald Cates of the Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services noted that "A lot of people who couldn't spell 'public health' now saw public health as the equivalent of the Department of Defense." Yet, as the excitement faded, the reality remained that federal funding was often targeted for highly specific bioterrorism projects (e.g., smallpox vaccination), while routine essential services were floundering due to a lack of resources. Local experiences across the country were uneven, with some states managing the influx of resources well while others did not. The 9/11-induced (or at least -accelerated) economic recession decreased state revenues--decreases that were invariably passed on to the state agencies. In some cases, this furthered the disparity between federally funded bioterrorism programs and traditional public health services. Many of the numerous experiences recounted by the authors document the states' struggles to "dually use" the bioterrorism funding both for biodefense and to strengthen the overall public health infrastructure.
The failed smallpox vaccination program initiated in December 2002 was driven by federal priorities yet had to be implemented at the state and local levels. To state officials, the true nature of the threat was not obvious. As a result, many of them did not fully engage in a program that was funded at less than its true implementation cost. In addition, the public did not fully recognize the threat, and an already-existing, organized anti-immunization community was fighting all vaccination programs. Lastly, in a healthcare environment severely affected by malpractice litigation, the risk of downstream liability and the potentially high costs of compensation to vaccination victims posed a threat to caregivers and healthcare administrators. As Gene Matthews (Georgia State University) summarized, "there were three concerns: liability, compensation, and risk assessment … these issues got mixed up with each other." This smallpox vaccination program was not coupled to overall public health development. Georges Benjamin (American Public Health Association) noted that single-minded attention to smallpox "sacrificed core public health activities." Rosner and Markowitz point to this program as an example of how federal dictates to the states were ill-fated, mismanaged, and detrimental to long-term infrastructure goals.
Public health is accomplished at the local level, but the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is the federal authority and was instrumental in the national response to the events of 2001. Whereas the anthrax letter attacks occurred in only five states, the other 45 states were consumed with testing thousands of suspicious powders and letters to reassure a frightened public. In fact, the negative results from the state labs were critical in the definition of the event boundaries and allowed the CDC to focus on the real attack. In the preceding year, the CDC had implemented a nationwide laboratory system for "anthrax" testing. In the absence of this system, all samples would have been sent to Atlanta for testing in a facility already operating over capacity. Dispersed investments in infrastructure development are cited as the most important federal response to the terrorist attacks. Prior to 9/11, bioterrorism preparedness at the CDC was slowly becoming a more important activity as the budget increased incrementally.
Rosner and Markowitz provide glimpses of the conflict within the government between those devoted to bioterrorism preparedness and those skeptics unconvinced that this focus was appropriate. Many of their interviews are rife with hindsight as public officials try to rewrite history to place their activities in the best light. Conflicting interviews will allow readers to assess for themselves the CDC's actual preparedness for bioterrorism. Optimistically, the CDC's post-9/11 response to the outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) was universally seen in a positive light. Whatever the CDC was before 9/11, it is clearly a very different organization today and much better prepared for public health crises.
Rosner and Markowitz weave commentary and analysis throughout the book but conclude with some basic lessons learned. First, in a crisis the available public health infrastructure makes all the difference in the quality of the local and federal response. Although timely leadership was important, it was effective only within the constraints of what the previous years' efforts had provided. Because of the unpredictability of the next crisis, public health infrastructure is the single most important way of preparing the nation. Second, the authors argue for a redefinition of public health to be more comprehensive and to include the mental health of the population. In addition to the traditional concern with the physical well-being of the population, social and economic health need to be included in the response to crises. Third, they observed that the failure to communicate honestly to the public, even if officials have good intentions to calm a chaotic situation, will lead to the subsequent mistrust of all communication. Lastly, the authors recommend that clear lines of authority need to be established in a crisis. Local authority need not be usurped, but decisive leadership, perhaps from the federal level, is critical.
Rosner and Markowitz provide a well researched account that should have an impact on the implementation of future public health policy. Their extensive interviews and use of public statements offer readers the opportunity to assess their research and to judge their analysis and commentary. The first-person reports of the chaos of the moment, especially in New York, will enlighten the naïve and invoke harsh memories for readers who more intimately lived through the events. So, the question remains: Are we ready? Although the authors advocate one path forward, we should never expect that the struggle to improve public health will be complete or finalized. Preparedness is an ongoing and consuming endeavor.
The reviewer is at the Department of Biological Sciences, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ 86011-5640, USA, and the Translational Genomics Research Institute (TGen). E-mail: [email protected]
--
NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C., section 107, some material is provided without permission from the copyright owner, only for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of federal copyright laws. These materials may not be distributed further, except for "fair use," without permission of the copyright owner. For more information go to: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
OrchardDweller
11-25-2007, 04:07 PM
Everybody here does their "own research." Nobody does "primary research," where you conduct experiments, do field studies, etc.
We are all doing secondary research at most, where we read and compare the result of original studies we trust. Or we read up on secondary sources we trust. Ot we just go with our gut feelings.
The difference is in what sources of information and analysis we trust. Maverick or main stream.
For any opinion you can find quotations from PhDs. [If you don't believe that write me and I can provide you one :wink: ]
Critical thinking comes in when you start exploring the literature that contradicts your opinion.
I Agree.
Well, anyone is free to trust the establishment if they want to. But I don't trust corporations and crooked politicians, and believe I have good reasons not to. Here is just one:
Well, anyone is free to trust the establishment if they want to. But I don't trust corporations and crooked politicians, and believe I have good reasons not to. Here is just one:
"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications, whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller
"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications, whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller
This feels very much like a doctored quote. It does not make sense: why would editors of a newspaper that published the Pentagon Papers be invited to meetings of an organization that allegedly is after world domination?
The only online sources for it I could find are conspiracy sites who all seem to have copied it from each other or from the fake Bilderberg website https://www.bilderberg.org
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg for some of conspiracy theories.
You have been taken in.
OrchardDweller
11-25-2007, 07:29 PM
This feels very much like a doctored quote. It does not make sense: why would editors of a newspaper that published the Pentagon Papers be invited to meetings of an organization that allegedly is after world domination?
The only online sources for it I could find are conspiracy sites who all seem to have copied it from each other or from the fake Bilderberg website https://www.bilderberg.org
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg for some of conspiracy theories.
You have been taken in.
If you go to Wikipedia for your information, here's an article you might want to read:
Look who's editing Wikipedia
https://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/08/wiki_tracker
OrchardDweller
11-25-2007, 07:54 PM
Here is a short clip which should give you some insight into corporate media. By the way, GE, who owns NBC, is a big arms contractor.
Censored images of war
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziZWTXvkIiA
To get back to the subject of vaccines, I just want to let concerned people know that I've read that one can have the mercury flushed with a chelation process. I'm not familiar with the details but I thought I'd pass the info on.
Doctor Ayoub talks about it though in the video I posted earlier.
decterlove
11-25-2007, 08:34 PM
I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist but I think at this point in history it's simply a matter of common sense to distrust our government to do anything right for the people living at ground level (witness Katrina, if that wasn't a wake up call to what we're all potentially vulnerable to, I don't know what is. And it was ordinary people who stepped in and did the most for those most in need, at least before official rescue services finally kicked in.)
LIkewise is just logical to me that the very rich and powerful are planning in some way how to coordinate the inevitable transition to a one world type government, whether it takes 50 or 500 years, in a way that best suits their own selfish interests.
I can't quite make up my own mind regarding this whole vacination issue, especially in regards to the exponential rise in autism which recently is being tentatively linked to cell phone usage. (drudge report, I believe...google it)
But I would like to mention an interesting development in chelation which I believe is a highly effective tool in spite of the official AMA repression of it.
There are now oral chelation formulas available that utilize the highly effective delivery system called pegylation which has been used in the pharamceutical industry for quite some time now...
here's link to a company I once worked for....not particularly fond of them at this point but they do make good products and are very cutting edge...
To get back to the subject of vaccines, I just want to let concerned people know that I've read that one can have the mercury flushed with a chelation process. I'm not familiar with the details but I thought I'd pass the info on.
Doctor Ayoub talks about it though in the video I posted earlier.
Braggi
11-25-2007, 08:35 PM
Does any one know if therapeutic titres have been induced with homeopathics? Interesting that essence of nothing could perform measurably.
That's pretty funny, but the fact is, "essence of nothing," that is to say, all "homeopathic remedies" don't perform measurably. If you've seen any studies on homeopathy, none of them perform better than placebo. For years now I've searched the news using the search term "homeopath study" or something similar. Seems these studies aren't being done anymore since none of them turned out positively for homeopathy.
But then, this is the stuff of another thread, I suppose.
-Jeff
PS. I just checked, and once again, no articles on homeopathy studies. I did find this doozy though: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2007/10/30/2003385470
decterlove
11-25-2007, 08:43 PM
For a good sources of studies in general although perhaps from a bit of a conservative perspective, try pubmed.gov or .org
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
This is a very official medical site and if it says something works there, you can be sure it has definitely proven its' efficacy. Colloidal Silver, by the way, fails to pass in any studies quoted here.
I do think there is still an inherent bias against many potential natural remedies though simply because there is very little funding available in that direction. Especially when it comes to formulas, such as OTM, because in the West we still prefer to isolate substances as much as possible in order to study them. Divide and conquer. Or maybe Divide and Confuse.
[quote=Braggi;43145]T For years now I've searched the news using the search term "homeopath study" or something similar.
shellebelle
11-25-2007, 08:46 PM
Also wouldn't the control group on homeopathy be hard. As noted in that article from the Dr and working as a drug company pusher.
For a good sources of studies in general although perhaps from a bit of a conservative perspective, try pubmed.gov or .org
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
This is a very official medical site and if it says something works there, you can be sure it has definitely proven its' efficacy. Colloidal Silver, by the way, fails to pass in any studies quoted here.
I do think there is still an inherent bias against many potential natural remedies though simply because there is very little funding available in that direction. Especially when it comes to formulas, such as OTM, because in the West we still prefer to isolate substances as much as possible in order to study them. Divide and conquer. Or maybe Divide and Confuse.
[quote=Braggi;43145]T For years now I've searched the news using the search term "homeopath study" or something similar.
d-cat
11-25-2007, 08:56 PM
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg for some of conspiracy theories.
You have been taken in.
Here is an Austin newscast about Texas Governor Rick Perry attending the last Bilderberg meeting (violating The Logan Act).
TX Gov. Rick Perry Attends Bilderberg in Istanbul, 2007
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-628006670387593215
d-cat
11-25-2007, 09:30 PM
...also, this documentary (originally posted on the 'population' thread) features video footage of a recent Bilderberg meeting:
Here is an Austin newscast about Texas Governor Rick Perry attending the last Bilderberg meeting (violating The Logan Act).
TX Gov. Rick Perry Attends Bilderberg in Istanbul, 2007
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-628006670387593215
The Logan Act is a federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments. How was attending this conference a "negotiation with foreign governments?"
d-cat
11-26-2007, 08:50 PM
The Logan Act is a federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments. How was attending this conference a "negotiation with foreign governments?"
sorry, that was suppose to be a link and with a question mark. I heard a radio show on the subject but here is an article.
https://www.democrats.org/page/community/post/B/CvGc
You might also look into the subjects of 'the trans texas corridor' and 'NAFTA superhighway' in regard to the 'North American Union' (aka SPP), and you can have a better understanding of what Perry was doing there with the Spanish Royalty at the secret meeting.
Zeno Swijtink
11-26-2007, 09:17 PM
sorry, that was suppose to be a link and with a question mark. I heard a radio show on the subject but here is an article.
https://www.democrats.org/page/community/post/B/CvGc
You might also look into the subjects of 'the trans texas corridor' and 'NAFTA superhighway' in regard to the 'North American Union' (aka SPP), and you can have a better understanding of what Perry was doing there with the Spanish Royalty at the secret meeting.
You want me to do my own "research"? Why don't you detail your own argument? Just throwing some references around does not make clear what claims you wish to make.
d-cat
11-26-2007, 11:17 PM
You want me to do my own "research"? Why don't you detail your own argument? Just throwing some references around does not make clear what claims you wish to make.
if you don't want to that's ok too. The post was actually done to show that Bilderberg is real.
"Mad" Miles
11-27-2007, 06:28 PM
For all of you opposed to vaccinating your children, with the goal of protecting them from the purported dangers of vaccination, how do you respond to the following news?
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
Whooping cough led to infant's death
Fatality from disease is Sonoma County's first in years; babies under 2 months most vulnerable
The death last week of a Sonoma County infant was attributed to pertussis, a lingering cold-like illness also known as whooping cough that once was nearly wiped out in the United States.
(For the rest of the article click on the following URL)
Some people will die, no matter what choices they make for their survival. That's life--death happens.
First, one death is not statistically significant. Second, I would want to know more about the case, i.e.: what was the state of health of the infant before it became ill, and what was the course of support during the illness.
Also, how about checking the research on children who have contracted and died from illnesses even though they were vaccinated?
--Terriann
For all of you opposed to vaccinating your children, with the goal of protecting them from the purported dangers of vaccination, how do you respond to the following news?
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
Whooping cough led to infant's death
Fatality from disease is Sonoma County's first in years; babies under 2 months most vulnerable
The death last week of a Sonoma County infant was attributed to pertussis, a lingering cold-like illness also known as whooping cough that once was nearly wiped out in the United States.
(For the rest of the article click on the following URL)
Gee Miles, not a single response to your post. How telling is that?
It's worth going to google news and doing a search on current news articles on whooping cough to see the new outbreaks across the nation due to parents failing to inoculate their children. How sad. I sure hope the same thing doesn't happen with polio.
-Jeff
vdeva
12-01-2007, 09:01 AM
I was vaccinated for whooping cough as a child in the first few years and contracted the disease at 14. I lost 35 #s and very nearly died. Vaccinations are sometimes dangerous (maybe always) and sometimes not effective.
Vdeva
Some people will die, no matter what choices they make for their survival. That's life--death happens.
First, one death is not statistically significant. Second, I would want to know more about the case, i.e.: what was the state of health of the infant before it became ill, and what was the course of support during the illness.
Also, how about checking the research on children who have contracted and died from illnesses even though they were vaccinated?
--Terriann
Braggi
12-01-2007, 10:42 AM
I was vaccinated for whooping cough as a child in the first few years and contracted the disease at 14. I lost 35 #s and very nearly died. ...
Vdeva
Sounds like you were very lucky you got the vaccination you did. Almost certainly you would have died otherwise.
If I remember right, that vaccine needs to be boostered at ages 2, 4, and 10. Sounds like you may have missed the boosters which possibly would have saved you from infection altogether.
... Vaccinations are sometimes dangerous (maybe always) and sometimes not effective.
Vdeva
I have no idea how you made that jump in logic. Are you saying you caught whooping cough because you were vaccinated as an infant?
You caught it because you were exposed the the bacteria that causes it, most likely from someone whose parents were negligent in getting their child properly vaccinated.
It has to come from someone. If everyone is protected by vaccination there are many fewer vectors. The big problem now is that so many well meaning people are leaving their children unprotected. Go to google news (https://news.google.com/) and do a search on whooping cough. It is stunning that in these modern times we're still fighting these diseases we should have completely done away with decades ago. Small pox is gone. Thank you big pharma and western medicine!!! Polio was nearly gone but is now making a big comeback because of fear and ignorance. Don't let your children become infected.
Not all people get full protection from vaccines, that's true. That's why it's so important to vaccinate as many as possible. We need to limit the number of cases in the population so fewer people are exposed. Vaccination is the best and only reasonable way.
-Jeff
Sonomamark
12-01-2007, 03:17 PM
Exactly, Jeff.
It seems to me there are two things going on here:
The first is a paranoid, conspiracy-theorist level of exaggerated fear of mainstream medicine, which may be justified in some cases, but certainly isn't on the immediate topic given the wild claims and flimsy evidence being offered in support of claims, to give one egregious example, that there is a link between vaccinations and autism.
Ironically, in my experience, the same folks who freak out over FDA-tested medicine also freak out over the suggestion that "alternative therapies" be subject to some kind of scientific review and regulation. I mean, come on: The medico-industrial complex is far from perfect, but if there were a magical "black salve" that could cure cancer, Pfizer would have patented it long ago. Credulity in such nonsense tends to push the conversation away from the rational--how do you have a logical conversation with a person who believes such stuff, and clings to the crank opinions of a tiny minority of medical professionals in the face of the overwhelming majority? It's like disbelieving in global climate change because of the handful of climatologists who insist it isn't happening.
The second, however, looks to me like good old American entitlement-mentality: "I want goodies (like rights and freedoms) but I'm unwilling to accept the accompanying responsibilities." We see the same thing on all kinds of issues: gun control, for example.
Members of a society are subject to a social contract: you have certain expectations of what you can do and have, and in exchange you are subject to certain societal expectations of how you must behave. You can drive a car, for example, but you are expected to obey traffic laws, get a license and insurance, register your car and pay taxes to support road building. You can't just buy a car and drive down the left side of the road, hitting whoever gets in your way.
Asserting a "right" not to immunize your child against, say, rubella, and then also expecting to be able to send your kid to school to create an opportunity for other kids to end up blind or deaf from that disease is simply unreasonable. If you want your child educated by the society, you have to act responsibly within that society, and that means that yes, you have to accept a minuscule risk of an adverse reaction to your individual child in order that the broader society as a whole can have the least possible risk of death and disability. It is perfectly reasonable to deny access to public schools to those who refuse this social contract, and personally, I don't have a problem with people being required to have their children vaccinated. Anyone old enough to remember polio epidemics probably agrees with me.
Mark
That "article" is so full of bull it's hard to know if the basic facts of the "case" are true. I still haven't seen anything on this from a credible source. I'll keep an open mind but so far there's not much there that's believable.
If the "black salve" really does cure "stage 4 melanoma" I'd like to buy a couple tankers full.
I'm not in favor of forced vaccinations, but I don't want unvaccinated kids going to school with my daughter. They pose a danger to others as well as to themselves.
You can't easily legislate good judgement.
-Jeff
sharingwisdom
12-02-2007, 12:56 AM
Have you checked these sites about smallpox vaccinations?
https://www.rense.com/general32/20r.htm
or https://www.vaclib.org/news/smallpoxalert.htm
By 1978, several scientific reports published in esteemed medical journals were linking the smallpox vaccine to a broad spectrum of increasingly common diseases and disorders. Autism, diabetes, neuromyelitis, other neurological diseases, tuberculosis, chromosome damage and sudden infant death were being scientifically associated with the smallpox vaccine. References to those reports, as published in the world's leading (primarily foreign) medical journals between 1960 and 1978, are available at www.vaclib.org/basic/smallpoxindex.htm (https://www.vaclib.org/basic/smallpoxindex.htm)) .
So, rather than accept liability for a smallpox vaccine linked to worldwide explosions of seemingly unrelated medical conditions, WHO declared the world free of smallpox after renaming it cowpox and monkey pox—and then attributed the falsely claimed eradication of the disease to vaccination.
OR
https://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/vaccines/wake.html
Sounds like you were very lucky you got the vaccination you did. Almost certainly you would have died otherwise.
If I remember right, that vaccine needs to be boostered at ages 2, 4, and 10. Sounds like you may have missed the boosters which possibly would have saved you from infection altogether.
I have no idea how you made that jump in logic. Are you saying you caught whooping cough because you were vaccinated as an infant?
You caught it because you were exposed the the bacteria that causes it, most likely from someone whose parents were negligent in getting their child properly vaccinated.
It has to come from someone. If everyone is protected by vaccination there are many fewer vectors. The big problem now is that so many well meaning people are leaving their children unprotected. Go to google news (https://news.google.com/) and do a search on whooping cough. It is stunning that in these modern times we're still fighting these diseases we should have completely done away with decades ago. Small pox is gone. Thank you big pharma and western medicine!!! Polio was nearly gone but is now making a big comeback because of fear and ignorance. Don't let your children become infected.
Not all people get full protection from vaccines, that's true. That's why it's so important to vaccinate as many as possible. We need to limit the number of cases in the population so fewer people are exposed. Vaccination is the best and only reasonable way.
-Jeff
Zeno Swijtink
12-02-2007, 09:15 AM
Ann writes: "Americans have had the luxury of refusing immunizations because so many of their fellow citizens are vaccinated, creating a "herd immunity." But the death of an innocent baby is a reminder that this veil of protection is fraying -- and could tear if too many people act selfishly."
I like to hear some arguments on the public health aspects of immunizations from those who are opposed to them! Public means community-mindedness.
It's difficult to believe that in wealthy Sonoma County, in the first decade of the 21st century, a baby has died from whooping cough.
Whooping cough. Something that your grandmother might have contracted when she was a child.
Thanks to an aggressive public health campaign, whooping cough (or pertussis) was nearly wiped out in the United States.
Now, like the great crane its name suggests, it's come swooping back.
We don't know the circumstances surrounding the tragic death of the infant, but here is what we do know:
At the age of one month, the baby was too young to have received the first of a series of DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis) vaccinations.
Since the early 1980s, pertussis cases have been on the rise nationwide, increasing the likelihood of exposure for vulnerable populations, especially infants.
The increase in the disease rate likely has two sources, according to Dr. Leigh Hall, deputy public health officer for Sonoma County: (1) The vaccine doesn't provide lifelong protection (booster shots are strongly recommended for adolescents and for adults who spend time with infants) and (2) a significant portion of the childhood population isn't fully vaccinated against pertussis, giving the disease a toehold.
With a DTaP vaccination rate of 81 percent for 2-year-olds, Northern California lags behind the state as a whole and the nation (both 85 percent) in coverage. To provide optimal coverage, the federal government has set a goal of a 90 percent immunization rate.
Sonoma County may be doing even worse. A county report, "Sonoma County Health Profile," (available at www.sonoma-county.org/health/ph/data) notes that in 2002, only 65 percent of the county's 2-year-olds were up-to-date with their DTaP-polio-MMR series, compared to 72 percent statewide.
I am guessing that the low immunization rates locally have something to do with the fact that a segment of the local population distrusts both mainstream medicine and government institutions.
Indeed, the county report seems to support this: In 2005, Sonoma County's "personal belief exemption rate" was 4.6 percent -- nearly four times the statewide rate of 1.2 percent.
"It's a fairly small group," Hall says. "But they're vocal, and it's significant."
This problem isn't isolated to Sonoma County. It's a phenomenon seen nationwide.
According to Dr. Paul A. Offit, a vaccine expert quoted recently in a New York Times article, as fewer parents see the death, scarring and other damage that can occur from infectious diseases, "there's been a shift in who's not getting vaccinated."
Offit says that it used to be poor children who weren't fully immunized, but a federal program that provides free vaccinations has increased the immunization rate of kids in low-income households.
Now, it's upper- and middle-income parents who are skipping some or all vaccinations -- primarily out of fears driven by Internet sites regarding autism and other potential neurological problems.
Despite all the concern, research has failed to establish a link between autism and immunizations. In the meantime, many of the more common side effects of vaccinations have been eliminated by new formulations.
Notes Hall, "It used to be that the pertussis component (of the combined vaccine) would cause high fever, crying and other unwanted side effects. That's no longer an issue."
But the fact that risks of side effects are low make no difference to some parents: They want to eliminate any chance that their own child is harmed, so they refuse vaccinations. Of course, they are relying on other parents to vaccinate their children in order to keep infectious diseases at bay.
Maybe these folks should take a look at a study released in mid-November by the Centers for Disease Control.
Using historical information going back to the early 1900s, researchers found that in 1934 more than 7,500 people died from whooping cough; in 1952, more than 3,000 died from polio; in the 1930s, there were around 30,000 cases of diphtheria annually, which killed about 10 percent of its victims.
Meanwhile, measles and mumps killed thousands and left others scarred, deaf and infertile.
Worldwide, measles still kills 242,000 every year -- equivalent to the combined population of Santa Rosa, Windsor and Petaluma.
There's no doubt that parents in the African countries effected by measles would gladly risk the potential side effects of vaccinations in order to protect their children from this devastating disease.
Americans have had the luxury of refusing immunizations because so many of their fellow citizens are vaccinated, creating a "herd immunity." But the death of an innocent baby is a reminder that this veil of protection is fraying -- and could tear if too many people act selfishly.
Ann DuBay is an editorial writer for The Press Democrat. E-mail her at [email protected].
Braggi
12-02-2007, 06:41 PM
Have you checked these sites about smallpox vaccinations?
https://www.rense.com/general32/20r.htm
--snip--
<snip>
OR
https://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/vaccines/wake.html
This post deserves a response, but not a long back and forth discussion. Jeff Rense is an "authority" as long as you want to know about little gray men from other planets. I prefer sources that base their observations on science when medical issues are the topic I seek information on.
Take at look: </snip>https://www.rense.com/
<snip>
That smallpox site I won't honor with a visit. Please.
Mothering magazine I have warm place in my heart for since both of my children were delivered at home with the help of midwives (the last one a lay midwife). My connections with the founders of Mothering extend beyond that into the personal which I will spare you the details of. I believe the editors of Mothering do very well at choosing really good articles for their publication. I've enjoyed and benefitted from reading a number of issues.
The linked article, however, is based on a lot of misinformation copied and restated over and over which, as we all know doesn't make it true. Also, please note it refers to information 37 years old to about 25 years old. Vaccines have gotten both more effective and safer since then, so, once again, it makes sense to seek out the latest information from recognized sources before making personal medical decisions.
-Jeff</snip>
OrchardDweller
12-22-2007, 06:44 PM
New Jersey makes flu shots mandatory
The decision by the Public Health Council will make New Jersey the first state to require annual shots for influenza and bacterial (pneumococcal) pneumonia for infants and toddlers. For sixth-graders, the state also will mandate a meningitis vaccination and a booster for diphtheria/pertussis/ tetanus, or DPT.
https://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkzJmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk3MjMyMjk0JnlyaXJ5N2Y3MTdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5Mg==
Japanese family sue government agency over Tamiflu
...The suit comes months after Japanese health authorities ordered doctors not to prescribe Tamiflu, which is manufactured by the Swiss drug firm Roche and sold in Japan by Chugai Pharmaceutical, to patients aged 10-19 following dozens of deaths and injuries among teenagers over the past six years.
More than 1,300 people have exhibited neuropsychiatric symptoms since Tamiflu went on sale in Japan in 2001, of whom 71 have died. Twenty-seven, most in their teens, fell from buildings....
https://www.guardian.co.uk/japan/story/0%2C%2C2133603%2C00.html