Maybe I could get some feedback on a question about relationships that I've wondered about for a long time. First I need to say that my formative years were the 1960's, so I kind of grew up on psychotherapy, encounter groups, self-help books, and classic works by Eric Fromm, Martin Buber, and Carl Rogers. Although I'm still very grateful for this background, as I've aged I've turned away from introspection and emoting and toward behaviorism. I don't know why this has happened. In any case, here is how things seem to me now: It's very well known what kinds of behavior build a positive relationship between a man and a woman. Active listening (in which the listener makes use of certain techniques to let the talker know that he is listening and understanding) is one. Taking the initiative to let one's partner know that she (or he) is valued is another--flowers, a night out at a restraurant, opening the car door, etc. Having fun together is another. There are a few more behaviors than this, but actually the list is quite short.
Likewise, it's well known what kinds of behaviors are destructive to a relationship: Making moral judgments, rolling your eyes upwards when your partner makes a point, criticizing your partner's habits or ideas excessively. Again, even the complete list would be quite short.
So, here's my question: If you want to have a good relationship, isn't it just a matter of doing what happy couples do and not doing what happy couples don't do? There doesn't seem to be any mystery or need for finesse. It's all right out there is plain sight. If you want a certain result (a happy relationship), you act a certain way. Where's the problem? Apparently, I'm oversimplifying something, but I can't see it from where I am now. Any ideas?
Barry
11-19-2007, 12:23 PM
So, here's my question: If you want to have a good relationship, isn't it just a matter of doing what happy couples do and not doing what happy couples don't do? There doesn't seem to be any mystery or need for finesse. It's all right out there is plain sight. If you want a certain result (a happy relationship), you act a certain way. Where's the problem? Apparently, I'm oversimplifying something, but I can't see it from where I am now. Any ideas?
Well, that's a behavioral viewpoint. But if there isn't genuine love and respect for the other person (as well as yourself!) then those behaviors aren't going to come out right.
For instance, if one were tempted to roll their eyes at their partners viewpoint, but because they are following the formula, they don't, you've still got a problem. Though you have taken a step to mitigate the consequences of the problem (lack of respect) it will still come out another way.
Willie Lumplump
11-19-2007, 01:42 PM
Well, that's a behavioral viewpoint. But if there isn't genuine love and respect for the other person (as well as yourself!) then those behaviors aren't going to come out right.
For instance, if one were tempted to roll their eyes at their partners viewpoint, but because they are following the formula, they don't, you've still got a problem. Though you have taken a step to mitigate the consequences of the problem (lack of respect) it will still come out another way.
Yeah, I take your point. But I think there's a reciprocal relation between feelings and behavior. For example, if you allow yourself to act agressively, aggressive feelings come more easily which then become the impetus for further aggressive behavior. Conversely, if you start showing more loving behaviors, you encourage in yourself more loving feelings that then become the impetus for more loving behavior. There's also the question of eliciting responses from your partner. If you show loving behaviors, your partner is more likely to respond lovingly, which reinforces the loving feelings you have for her, and those feelings then make it easier for you to behave lovingly.
When you think about it, relationships are made up of behaviors because we can never truly see the heart of another person. All that we know about another person comes from what we see of his behavior. So behavior, in my view, is the key to a good relationship. But this presumes that loving feelings are at least latent. Sometimes loving feelings are entirely missing from a relationship, and sometimes there's a very good reason for this.
Zeno Swijtink
11-19-2007, 05:21 PM
Yeah, I take your point. But I think there's a reciprocal relation between feelings and behavior.
Absolutely. Smiling, esp. while looking in a mirror, improves your mood. (Kleinke, C.L., Peterson, T.R., & Rutledge, T.R. (1998). Effects of self-generated facial expressions on mood. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 74, 272-279.)
The question is what is the "behavior" that makes relationships work?
My sweetheart put me on John Gottman, a psychologist who has studied couples in his so-called "Love Lab".
A book of his is The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. Surprisingly, "good communication" is not one of them, but "led your partner influence you" is. Now is that a behavior?
scorpiomoon
11-19-2007, 07:25 PM
Appreciation / ability to listen thoughtfully / umm my goodness I 've been coaxing Willie for a week. When the opening comes ACT QUICKLY or things close again and also formula for the good one might include putting yourself out there a LOT and don't force something that isn't working stop!! (listen to your own advice I share my inner voice w/u) when it works it works instantaneously thats my experience because all my relationships had that warm flowing floating feeling immediately there was no guessing and this formula is not only for romantic relationships but friendships that last. ---- I AM married, true but I have some VERY nice single friends
I am trying to prime the pump to see if he really wants this or if he wants to anaylize it forever also
I LOVE BOOKS so I used to scout in bookstores and libraries so if we get the formula together we still need the action and the get to it part!!! :heart::heart::hello:
Willie Lumplump
11-19-2007, 09:04 PM
Appreciation / ability to listen thoughtfully / umm my goodness I 've been coaxing Willie for a week. When the opening comes ACT QUICKLY or things close again and also formula for the good one might include putting yourself out there a LOT and don't force something that isn't working stop!! (listen to your own advice I share my inner voice w/u) when it works it works instantaneously thats my experience because all my relationships had that warm flowing floating feeling immediately there was no guessing and this formula is not only for romantic relationships but friendships that last. ---- I AM married, true but I have some VERY nice single friends
I am trying to prime the pump to see if he really wants this or if he wants to anaylize it forever also
I LOVE BOOKS so I used to scout in bookstores and libraries so if we get the formula together we still need the action and the get to it part!!! :heart::heart::hello:
I'm single, I have only one nice, single friend, and she considers my pump already primed. Not a very enlightened attitude, but I live with it.
scorpiomoon
11-19-2007, 09:40 PM
You WERE the one asking for advice, right.? you write hmm your tone here is very dry its like ?? Where's the fun??? there has to be a little moisture in there to make it go!! "she considers" hmm I did have a friend who seemed to discount what I said and thats what your response "feels like" to me thats the other part of the formula it needs to "feel" like somewhere you haven't been a brand new and sacred place
and bringing light into an overcrowded darkened room
is difficult
so maybe you can tell me about fossils sometime
I love rocks but
you asked for a formula. Does it feel like something lightens or opens because when I speak to you
to me it "feels" like maybe you have an over-scrutinizng eye on an unimportant point when we want good relations right
thats what you want so start HERE practice----friends do not need mindbending to relax into
shellebelle
11-19-2007, 10:08 PM
:2cents: ROFLMAO - Okay, 3 time divorce, 3 current lovers, open relationships with room for more - I'm just special :jrope:. How do I make it work - BY NOT ACTING! LOL Take me as I am - love me or leave me - the door swings both ways feel free to go through either way. Remove jealousy, increase and embrace trust (which takes on new meaning when you have more than your interest in play), play with passion and truth. Key to it all - STOP, Breathe, Listen and Ask. All which at one point or another we all screw up on so thus FORGIVE is very important as well! :2cents: Not everyone can live my relationships or life nor I theirs so go with what works for you!
Maybe I could get some feedback on a question about relationships that I've wondered about for a long time. First I need to say that my formative years were the 1960's, so I kind of grew up on psychotherapy, encounter groups, self-help books, and classic works by Eric Fromm, Martin Buber, and Carl Rogers. Although I'm still very grateful for this background, as I've aged I've turned away from introspection and emoting and toward behaviorism. I don't know why this has happened. In any case, here is how things seem to me now: It's very well known what kinds of behavior build a positive relationship between a man and a woman. Active listening (in which the listener makes use of certain techniques to let the talker know that he is listening and understanding) is one. Taking the initiative to let one's partner know that she (or he) is valued is another--flowers, a night out at a restraurant, opening the car door, etc. Having fun together is another. There are a few more behaviors than this, but actually the list is quite short.
Likewise, it's well known what kinds of behaviors are destructive to a relationship: Making moral judgments, rolling your eyes upwards when your partner makes a point, criticizing your partner's habits or ideas excessively. Again, even the complete list would be quite short.
So, here's my question: If you want to have a good relationship, isn't it just a matter of doing what happy couples do and not doing what happy couples don't do? There doesn't seem to be any mystery or need for finesse. It's all right out there is plain sight. If you want a certain result (a happy relationship), you act a certain way. Where's the problem? Apparently, I'm oversimplifying something, but I can't see it from where I am now. Any ideas?
Willie Lumplump
11-20-2007, 10:15 AM
You WERE the one asking for advice, right.? you write hmm your tone here is very dry its like ?? Where's the fun??? there has to be a little moisture in there to make it go!! "she considers" hmm I did have a friend who seemed to discount what I said and thats what your response "feels like" to me thats the other part of the formula it needs to "feel" like somewhere you haven't been a brand new and sacred place
and bringing light into an overcrowded darkened room
is difficult
so maybe you can tell me about fossils sometime
I love rocks but
you asked for a formula. Does it feel like something lightens or opens because when I speak to you
to me it "feels" like maybe you have an over-scrutinizng eye on an unimportant point when we want good relations right
thats what you want so start HERE practice----friends do not need mindbending to relax into
For me, life is ironic from one moment to another, and irony just keeps bubbling to the surface. Maybe I should start using those little emoticons, except that when you indicate that you're being ironic, you're no longer being ironic. We have a Catch-22 here, or maybe a Catch-23.
Willie Lumplump
11-20-2007, 10:17 AM
maybe you can tell me about fossils sometime
I do this every single time I talk about myself.
Lorrie
11-20-2007, 10:24 AM
I do this every single time I talk about myself.
Now Willie, let's not get ahead of ourselves.....
Barry
11-20-2007, 11:03 AM
Yeah, I take your point. But I think there's a reciprocal relation between feelings and behavior. I take your point as well. Actions can influence feelings too!
FireFox
04-20-2008, 04:29 PM
I agree with you.
It can be simple.
As long as there
is communication
and compromise:):
Maybe I could get some feedback on a question about relationships that I've wondered about for a long time. First I need to say that my formative years were the 1960's, so I kind of grew up on psychotherapy, encounter groups, self-help books, and classic works by Eric Fromm, Martin Buber, and Carl Rogers. Although I'm still very grateful for this background, as I've aged I've turned away from introspection and emoting and toward behaviorism. I don't know why this has happened. In any case, here is how things seem to me now: It's very well known what kinds of behavior build a positive relationship between a man and a woman. Active listening (in which the listener makes use of certain techniques to let the talker know that he is listening and understanding) is one. Taking the initiative to let one's partner know that she (or he) is valued is another--flowers, a night out at a restraurant, opening the car door, etc. Having fun together is another. There are a few more behaviors than this, but actually the list is quite short.
Likewise, it's well known what kinds of behaviors are destructive to a relationship: Making moral judgments, rolling your eyes upwards when your partner makes a point, criticizing your partner's habits or ideas excessively. Again, even the complete list would be quite short.
So, here's my question: If you want to have a good relationship, isn't it just a matter of doing what happy couples do and not doing what happy couples don't do? There doesn't seem to be any mystery or need for finesse. It's all right out there is plain sight. If you want a certain result (a happy relationship), you act a certain way. Where's the problem? Apparently, I'm oversimplifying something, but I can't see it from where I am now. Any ideas?