Is Judgement a Dirty Word?

[Braggi]

Why is the word judgement* looked upon with such disdain these days?

When I see it in Sonoma County writing I have to assume an emphasis on it like "liberal" coming from a right winger.

Since when is judgement a bad thing? ... why?

-Jeff

PS. Royce, I liked your comments on this topic.

* Or judgment, if you prefer-a popular misspelling founded on Biblical precedent according to Wikipedia.

[Willie Lumplump]

* Or judgment, if you prefer-a popular misspelling founded on Biblical precedent according to Wikipedia.

"Judgment" is by far the most common spelling in American English, although "judgement" is also considered correct. The latter spelling seems to be preferred in British English.

[alanora]

To moi, the word judgement implies a negative connotation like condemnation is included, tho I can see it as neutral as in a pronouncement. Perhaps discernment might be better employed in some instances to relieve the judgement of judgement and reaction that ensues?!


"Judgment" is by far the most common spelling in American English, although "judgement" is also considered correct. The latter spelling seems to be preferred in British English.

[Willie Lumplump]

To moi, the word judgement implies a negative connotation like condemnation is included, tho I can see it as neutral as in a pronouncement. Perhaps discernment might be better employed in some instances to relieve the judgement of judgement and reaction that ensues?!

Would you avoid encouraging your children to improve their judgment? Would you call Murtha's plea for a withdrawal from Iraq an example of good discernment?

[Braggi]

Discernment ... ya know, it does somehow sound nice, like, the discerning person is more sophisticated. And yet, how can you discern if you have not passed judgement? (I think I lean to the British on spelling this one.)

I think a person becomes discerning through his ability to pass judgement.

You know, every time you take a step while walking, the brain makes a whole series of little judgements. If not, you'd trip and fall because you stepped in the wrong place or in the wrong way. Nobody would think of that in a negative way.

If you are going to hire a person to do a job, you will want to learn a little about that person so you can make your decision using good judgement.

Nobody would fault a person for having good judgement. However, if a decision is made in public on any topic and somebody says, "That's pretty judgemental." That's considered negative.

How did we ever get to this? Can somebody illuminate this dark mystery?

-Jeff

[ThePhiant]

Discernment ... ya know, it does somehow sound nice, like, the discerning person is more sophisticated. And yet, how can you discern if you have not passed judgement? (I think I lean to the British on spelling this one.)

I think a person becomes discerning through his ability to pass judgement.

You know, every time you take a step while walking, the brain makes a whole series of little judgements. If not, you'd trip and fall because you stepped in the wrong place or in the wrong way. Nobody would think of that in a negative way.

If you are going to hire a person to do a job, you will want to learn a little about that person so you can make your decision using good judgement.

Nobody would fault a person for having good judgement. However, if a decision is made in public on any topic and somebody says, "That's pretty judgemental." That's considered negative.

How did we ever get to this? Can somebody illuminate this dark mystery?

-Jeff
youre judgemental when you should have had better judgement!
LOL

[AnnaLisaW]

It sure seems to be becoming a dirty word but it is still just a word. It is how it is applied that is "dirty." It is often appropriate to judge our own actions in order to learn good judgement. When we judge others, we overstep our authority.

[ChristineL]

It's not about the word, it's about what people perceive as "passing judgement". As I had stated in another post, any observations made about belief systems or cultures and how they affect the world at large are seen as a "judgment". If you are not absolutely politically correct "you're passing judgement". These days, I'm almost afraid to say I don't like Mexican food (which I don't partly because I'm allergic to an ingredient in it which gives me migraines), because someone is going to perceive it as judging an entire population. Yes...I agree with Jeff, the other uses of the word, such as in the sense of using "good judgement" seem to be forgotten and it's become a dirty word.



It sure seems to be becoming a dirty word but it is still just a word. It is how it is applied that is "dirty." It is often appropriate to judge our own actions in order to learn good judgement. When we judge others, we overstep our authority.

[ThePhiant]

let's not forget that once we have a discriminating mind, we don't discriminate
once we have good judgement, we won't be judgemental
we find that there are 2 sides to the same coin


It's not about the word, it's about what people perceive as "passing judgement". As I had stated in another post, any observations made about belief systems or cultures and how they affect the world at large are seen as a "judgment". If you are not absolutely politically correct "you're passing judgement". These days, I'm almost afraid to say I don't like Mexican food (which I don't partly because I'm allergic to an ingredient in it which gives me migraines), because someone is going to perceive it as judging an entire population. Yes...I agree with Jeff, the other uses of the word, such as in the sense of using "good judgement" seem to be forgotten and it's become a dirty word.

[Willie Lumplump]

It's not about the word, it's about what people perceive as "passing judgement". As I had stated in another post, any observations made about belief systems or cultures and how they affect the world at large are seen as a "judgment". If you are not absolutely politically correct "you're passing judgement". These days, I'm almost afraid to say I don't like Mexican food (which I don't partly because I'm allergic to an ingredient in it which gives me migraines), because someone is going to perceive it as judging an entire population.

A racially. ethnically, and religiously diverse society such as ours always runs the risk that tensions might break out into civil disorder. Government and public agencies such as schools reduce that risk by constantly hammering home the message that everybody and every way of living is OK. However, people will believe this "everything goes" message only if they suspend judgment, or, better yet, lose their capacity for judgment. And that is what is happening. The American people are losing their capacity to make judgments. Loss of judgment dovetails nicely with the purposes of the elite who run this country. The President says we don't need the right of habeus corpus that has been the cornerstone of all democratic government for almost 800 years. The American judgment: The President must know what he's doing. The President says we don't need a strategic arms agreement to avoid nuclear war. The American judgment: The President must know what he's doing. Our schools are turning out obedient citizens who don't know how to think for themselves and make judgments but who do know how to be good consumers.

[AnnaLisaW]

A racially. ethnically, and religiously diverse society such as ours always runs the risk that tensions might break out into civil disorder. Government and public agencies such as schools reduce that risk by constantly hammering home the message that everybody and every way of living is OK. However, people will believe this "everything goes" message only if they suspend judgment, or, better yet, lose their capacity for judgment. And that is what is happening. The American people are losing their capacity to make judgments. Loss of judgment dovetails nicely with the purposes of the elite who run this country. The President says we don't need the right of habeus corpus that has been the cornerstone of all democratic government for almost 800 years. The American judgment: The President must know what he's doing. The President says we don't need a strategic arms agreement to avoid nuclear war. The American judgment: The President must know what he's doing. Our schools are turning out obedient citizens who don't know how to think for themselves and make judgments but who do know how to be good consumers.

Gee, Willie, that's a pretty negative opinion.:hmmm: Sadly, I think you are right. - AnnaLisa

[ChristineL]

A racially. ethnically, and religiously diverse society such as ours always runs the risk that tensions might break out into civil disorder. Government and public agencies such as schools reduce that risk by constantly hammering home the message that everybody and every way of living is OK. However, people will believe this "everything goes" message only if they suspend judgment, or, better yet, lose their capacity for judgment. And that is what is happening. The American people are losing their capacity to make judgments. Loss of judgment dovetails nicely with the purposes of the elite who run this country. The President says we don't need the right of habeus corpus that has been the cornerstone of all democratic government for almost 800 years. The American judgment: The President must know what he's doing. The President says we don't need a strategic arms agreement to avoid nuclear war. The American judgment: The President must know what he's doing. Our schools are turning out obedient citizens who don't know how to think for themselves and make judgments but who do know how to be good consumers.


I agree. Unfortunately, critical thinking does not seem to be taught or encouraged in schools. Although my father and I did not get along and there were a lot of things about him I did not like, I feel blessed that he taught me to question everything I read or heard and encouraged me to have "discernment". Every time I spewed out something I read as fact, my father (an avid reader) would refer me to several sources that disagreed with that point of view. It took me until I was 15 to win a debate with him...I must admit I felt very proud of myself. I don't think he realized how much trouble I got into in school as a result of this...teachers did not appreciate all my questions, or quotes from history books that were not assigned reading. I was threatened with trips to the principal's office by my 7th grad Social Studies Teacher (we disagreed about the right of the English King to give away land I already considered occupied by Native Americans), and with a failiing grade in 12th grade History for pointing out all the United States' violations of the Monroe Doctrine. Even in my day, we were not taught to use our "judgement".

By the way, it has little to do with education level, my father did not attend college until he went to night school in his thirties. He was thinking like this before then. I don't know how it is now, but with the exception of a couple of off-beat courses I took in College, such as "The Underside of American History", little critical thinking and questioning was taught there either. I was almost kicked out of a history course there too.

You're right Willie, a lot of people believe it because an authority figure, such as the President says so. Not enough people question the necessity of medications they're prescribed or the the medical treatment they're given, because the "doctor" said it was needed. ETC., ETC., ETC.

[Willie Lumplump]

I agree. Unfortunately, critical thinking does not seem to be taught or encouraged in schools. Although my father and I did not get along and there were a lot of things about him I did not like, I feel blessed that he taught me to question everything I read or heard and encouraged me to have "discernment". Every time I spewed out something I read as fact, my father (an avid reader) would refer me to several sources that disagreed with that point of view. It took me until I was 15 to win a debate with him...I must admit I felt very proud of myself. I don't think he realized how much trouble I got into in school as a result of this...teachers did not appreciate all my questions, or quotes from history books that were not assigned reading. I was threatened with trips to the principal's office by my 7th grad Social Studies Teacher (we disagreed about the right of the English King to give away land I already considered occupied by Native Americans), and with a failiing grade in 12th grade History for pointing out all the United States' violations of the Monroe Doctrine. Even in my day, we were not taught to use our "judgement".

By the way, it has little to do with education level, my father did not attend college until he went to night school in his thirties. He was thinking like this before then. I don't know how it is now, but with the exception of a couple of off-beat courses I took in College, such as "The Underside of American History", little critical thinking and questioning was taught there either. I was almost kicked out of a history course there too.

You're right Willie, a lot of people believe it because an authority figure, such as the President says so. Not enough people question the necessity of medications they're prescribed or the the medical treatment they're given, because the "doctor" said it was needed. ETC., ETC., ETC.

What a personal history! I tip my hat to you.

[Braggi]

The American judgment: The President must know what he's doing. Our schools are turning out obedient citizens who don't know how to think for themselves and make judgments but who do know how to be good consumers.



I think it's actually more insidious than that because most folks do think they are thinking for themselves. That's the really scary part.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

As I had stated in another post, any observations made about belief systems or cultures and how they affect the world at large are seen as a "judgment". If you are not absolutely politically correct "you're passing judgement".



Is there something wrong with passing judgments? Even judgments about belief systems and cultures? Should we not be allowed in polite company to discuss our dissatisfaction with a belief system or culture? (Typo: vulture.)

-Jeff

[bird]

ok....what one of my questions for the year is this....what exactly is the difference btwn. judgement and experience? say....you know a person for a long time and they continually do the same things....(for instance...i was in conversation w/a friend a while back and we were talking about a mutual friend....i referred to her as "ditsey".....my friend said "that sounds pretty judgemental". but my experience from knowing her for many years is that she is indeed "ditsey" at times....).....so it seems, to me, that there is a grey area....any comments??
peace.






I agree. Unfortunately, critical thinking does not seem to be taught or encouraged in schools. Although my father and I did not get along and there were a lot of things about him I did not like, I feel blessed that he taught me to question everything I read or heard and encouraged me to have "discernment". Every time I spewed out something I read as fact, my father (an avid reader) would refer me to several sources that disagreed with that point of view. It took me until I was 15 to win a debate with him...I must admit I felt very proud of myself. I don't think he realized how much trouble I got into in school as a result of this...teachers did not appreciate all my questions, or quotes from history books that were not assigned reading. I was threatened with trips to the principal's office by my 7th grad Social Studies Teacher (we disagreed about the right of the English King to give away land I already considered occupied by Native Americans), and with a failiing grade in 12th grade History for pointing out all the United States' violations of the Monroe Doctrine. Even in my day, we were not taught to use our "judgement".

By the way, it has little to do with education level, my father did not attend college until he went to night school in his thirties. He was thinking like this before then. I don't know how it is now, but with the exception of a couple of off-beat courses I took in College, such as "The Underside of American History", little critical thinking and questioning was taught there either. I was almost kicked out of a history course there too.

You're right Willie, a lot of people believe it because an authority figure, such as the President says so. Not enough people question the necessity of medications they're prescribed or the the medical treatment they're given, because the "doctor" said it was needed. ETC., ETC., ETC.

[alanora]

Sounds like you were taking inventory of one friend for another and she picked up on that and she did not like that knowing you would probably be inventorying her with the other at some point.....possibility?:hmmm:


ok....what one of my questions for the year is this....what exactly is the difference btwn. judgement and experience? say....you know a person for a long time and they continually do the same things....(for instance...i was in conversation w/a friend a while back and we were talking about a mutual friend....i referred to her as "ditsey".....my friend said "that sounds pretty judgemental". but my experience from knowing her for many years is that she is indeed "ditsey" at times....).....so it seems, to me, that there is a grey area....any comments??
peace.

[Clancy]

"Judgemental" is now loaded with negative conotation. You'd also have been judgemental if you said your friend was very loving toward others at times, but, since that's a positive judgement, no one is likely to call you judgemental for it.



ok....what one of my questions for the year is this....what exactly is the difference btwn. judgement and experience? say....you know a person for a long time and they continually do the same things....(for instance...i was in conversation w/a friend a while back and we were talking about a mutual friend....i referred to her as "ditsey".....my friend said "that sounds pretty judgemental". but my experience from knowing her for many years is that she is indeed "ditsey" at times....).....so it seems, to me, that there is a grey area....any comments??
peace.

[ChristineL]

"Judgemental" is now loaded with negative conotation. You'd also have been judgemental if you said your friend was very loving toward others at times, but, since that's a positive judgement, no one is likely to call you judgemental for it.

Good point, I've noticed that one too. Of course, in the case of saying a friend is "ditsey", the one hearing the comment has to make the "judgement" that this is a negative thing. You're not allowed to see people realistically and objectively any more...I don't know about anyone else...but...I don't have any perfect friends. By objectively seeing their good and bad points, I know in what ways I can count on them. By objectively seeing mine, they know the ways they can count on me. I'm a very busy person who sometimes needs reminders of social events I agreed to attend or things I agreed to do for people. Yes, I'm working on it...but my friends just send emails or leave voice mail messages. I'm a bit "ditsey"...when told that, I don't feel judged, I just admit the truth of it.

Come on, let's face it people, in deciding who you're going to allow to get close to you...you're going to make "judgements". I have made the "judgement" that people doing heavy drugs don't become my friends...I don't have them come to my house either. I've made the "judgement" that they're not good or healthy for me to have around.

[Juggledude]

My take on judgement, and the negative connotations I personally hold for the word, have to do solely with the attempted imposition of values from one being to another.

Absolutely, judgement, or discernment, the application of critical (or perhaps simply effective) thinking to determine a course of action is not only useful, but a required survival skill. In all spectra, from judging the timing of crossing the street, so as not to get hit by a bus, to judging the ditseyness of a friend when asking them to come through for you, this essential bit of cognitive processing comes in quite handy.

Personally, my problem arises when the boundaries of self are crossed, and what is deemed 'appropriate' or perhaps even 'useful' for one person is then applied to another. Specifically, me, in the most uncomfortable circumstances, admittedly.

Granted, the rede "Do as thou will, an it harm none" assumes the ability of each and every one of us to not only make an informed decision on what is in our best interest, but to also possess awareness of self as separate yet interconnected with our society. Not an entirely easy task. As we look then to the abilities of the members of our society, we must work with the lowest common denominators, and compromise within that framework. In my humble opinion, this is what laws as well as oppressive moral ethics are attempting to do, and as such, perhaps have some usefulness.

Sigh, the compromises one must make to be a member of society...

Now, is that attitude egocentonic, or egodistonic?

I'll try to keep in mind that dharma and dogma are NOT synonymous.

Royce

[mykil]

Judgment? You will be judged, there is a friggin judge involved. The time has come to slow down and take notice. Not necessarily a bad thing, more of a time consuming effort you must ender to get past. Who among us wants to be judged, have judgment cast upon us? Why waist the time being judged? Learn to accept it on the terms it has been established to contribute and all is well. People cast judgment on me everyday; I just don’t give a rats asssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss? I think with or without it the world would fall apart, that is for sure!