Im scared to post on wacco [Archive]

Tars

09-29-2007, 08:48 AM

I read whats going on here and get sick of all the confusion, chaos, arguments, and disrespect. I know other people feel the same way. So why is this? Why cant we all be civilized and not jump down each others throats all the time?
It takes emotional discipline to avoid being hurt by negativity spew and use of insults. Discipline comes with practice, so I encourage you to participate whenever/wherever you can, even though it's sometimes uncomfortable.

I've been and am participating in forums all over the web, and used to do old-time dial-up BBS' before that. Long ago I felt the same angst that you do. But apparently I've grown a psychic callous that allows me to avoid feeling hurt by personal attacks. The callous hasn't hardened my communications style, or hopefully my human sensitivity, it's just formed a protective layer.

You can get a good idea of a poster's mental abilities by their use of insult and name calling. I think it's an inverse relationship. The more someone uses insult, the less capable they are of honest communication. It's their problem, not yours. When they start insulting you, it's because they've run out of anything meaningful to say.

I hope you'll overcome your sensitivity and continue to post, someguy.

Good luck!

Tars

https://www.rpriddle.com/avatar/tagline_john_mayer01.gif

Barry

09-29-2007, 04:40 PM

...I'm wondering how we can get together and make this place a little more positive than it already is? ...
Thanks for bringing this up, Someguy! I applaud your courage in sharing your feelings!

Yes, sometimes the discussions/debates here can seem rather harsh. Many of them are between active members (that have tangled with each other before) that have long standing and strongly held different points of view. Their posts are often very thoughtful, well written and while they "attack" their "opponent's" arguments, then don't actually attack their opponent, but rather treat them with respect. I find many of these threads quite interesting, but I don't often feel called to join the fray.

However there are other times when a reply can seem to be mean-spirited, seemingly trying to put the poster "down" or "make them wrong" or make them defend themselves personally. These posts have no place on WaccoBB.net, where I strongly encourage everybody to treat each other with respect.

It's a challenge for me as the moderator to handle these instances. It's a very messy business with few clear lines. I try to take into consideration who is writing to who, free speech rights and where the thread might lead. Like the grain of sand in the oyster, the little irritation can often lead to a beautiful healing, especially when held in the light of our Conscious Community with many wise and compassionate souls!

There are some members that are more prone to making these insensitive and hurtful posts. I often try to engage them, both publicly and privately to encourage them to be kinder and more sensitive. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

If you find a particular member's posts to be often offensive, you can tell the system to ignore their posts for you. Here's how (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19804).

I know you are not alone in your feelings, Someguy. I want everybody to feel safe in posting here. I see WaccoBB.net as a holding environment (https://www.ahalmaas.com/glossary/h/holding_environment.htm) for our community. The more people feel safe posting their thoughts and feelings here, the richer we will all be and I think it will help us grow as a community.

I will step up my efforts to moderate the more aggressive members, either by using the bully pulpit, as I am doing here, or by moving their posts to our Censored and Uncensored category (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=104) where at least you are forewarned that the posts you encounter there may be offensive (or chat that need not be shared with the community) for one reason or another. I also invite you to flag posts that you think should be moderated for one reason or another. Just click on the Report Post icon (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/orangebuttons/report.gif) on the blue header above each post on the website.

If you or anybody else out there are interested in posting, but are "scared" to, please summon the courage like Someguy and give it a try! You are welcome to include a note requesting that people be gentle in their replies. I will do my best to be sure that your request is honored. And know that there are many people out here that are glad that you posted!

The vast majority of our members are kind and are eager to lend support for whatever is needed. For instance there are Tars' and AnnaLisaW's helpful replies on this thread, as well as elsewhere on the board.

Now, Someguy, I hope you will share with us your thoughts about "what men are looking for (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26446)"! I know that many women are looking for men who can be vulnerable and can authentically share there feelings as you have!

Barry

karenclark

09-29-2007, 08:07 PM

loveheals

09-29-2007, 09:27 PM

Thank you Someguy for your post. I made two posts on here and got a rude comment each time, from 2 different people. I am new to this site and decided not to post here anymore. I am new at the business I am posting about too, so the "attacks" felt too intense, uncalled for and out of the blue, for me to continue posting. Thank you to all of you who do communicate openly, honestly, and sensitively. Thank you Barry for attempting to keep it safe and respectful.
Sparkie

I will try it again and see how it goes.

ThePhiant

09-30-2007, 09:13 AM

what is interesting about your post is that you say were "attacked".
this of course is your perception and your truth since i don't know which or what posts you are referring to.
it is a result of your sensitivity level, and the others.
maybe something you wrote felt like an attack to them
maybe they were trying to be funny
maybe this is their way of being direct and honest and truthful
or maybe you are too sensitive
when communicating via emails, things become more impersonal and seem more intense than when the same things were said in person.

so Barry, maybe it is time to open up a new category and I'' call it the lovey-dovey puppy pen.
just as you created a site for the more raucous ones, we need a place for the shy and easily intimidated ones, where we maybe can create a new form of communicating via emails
only positive vibes and all that kind of good stuff
where no one is called a name
love and peace

LuLu

Thank you Someguy for your post. I made two posts on here and got a rude comment each time, from 2 different people. I am new to this site and decided not to post here anymore. I am new at the business I am posting about too, so the "attacks" felt too intense, uncalled for and out of the blue, for me to continue posting. Thank you to all of you who do communicate openly, honestly, and sensitively. Thank you Barry for attempting to keep it safe and respectful.
Sparkie

I will try it again and see how it goes.

mykil

09-30-2007, 09:58 AM

ROTFLMFAO LULU I am going to hold my tounge today! Peace!

what is interesting about your post is that you say were "attacked"...

Kunnskaping

09-30-2007, 10:52 AM

. . . maybe something you wrote felt like an attack to them
maybe they were trying to be funny
maybe this is their way of being direct and honest and truthful
or maybe you are too sensitive
when communicating via emails, things become more impersonal and seem more intense than when the same things were said in person.

. . .

. . .

When you're nearly hit by a yuppie little twit
With 'is godforsaken noggin on the phone
Swervin' in your lane goin' ninety in the rain
In a cloud of Amaretto and cologne
You feel the anger in you go to work
Maybe now's the time to go berserk
Before you pop a vessel let the speculator wrestle
With another way of lookin' at the jerk
Maybe he's a shrink with a patient on the brink
And he's rushing there while tryin' to talk him down
Maybe he's aware there's a toxin in the air
And he's off to warn the people of the town
Someone in the family could be sick
His daughter hit his mother with a brick
His dog has got the rabies or his wife is having babies
Though the odds are in your favor he's a prick

-- From Lou and Peter Barryman's "The Speculator"

Barry

09-30-2007, 03:09 PM

Thanks Barry for your thoughtful response. And thanks to Someguy for saying out loud thoughts I'd had too. I've even gotten private-response flames in the past and altho I don't consider myself ultra sensitive, it just makes you think twice before posting. Who needs that kind of drama, you know? Life's too short.
Karen

I made two posts on here and got a rude comment each time, from 2 different people. I am new to this site and decided not to post here anymore. I am new at the business I am posting about too, so the "attacks" felt too intense, uncalled for and out of the blue, for me to continue posting. Thank you to all of you who do communicate openly, honestly, and sensitively. Thank you Barry for attempting to keep it safe and respectful.
Sparkie

I will try it again and see how it goes.

Thanks for speaking up Karen and Sparkie. Everybody, please contact me if you fell you have received a rude or otherwise inappropriate private reply from your public posting. I will be intercede as needed to ensure all replies are respectful.

And while this thread is focusing on the problematic replies, please keep in mind that the vast majority of replies are kind and helpful!

...
so Barry, maybe it is time to open up a new category and I'' call it the lovey-dovey puppy pen.
just as you created a site for the more raucous ones, we need a place for the shy and easily intimidated ones, where we maybe can create a new form of communicating via emails
only positive vibes and all that kind of good stuff
where no one is called a name
love and peace

LuLu

It just so happens I've been thinking of creating a category call "Gratitude and Inspiration" which would welcome "only positive vibes and all that kind of good stuff". I know many of you make gratitude a daily practice, whether it's to help heal a from a depression or other life challenge, or as continual honoring and celebration of the mystery that is all that is. So this would be a place where we can share that with each other along with other inspiring writings. Requests for emotional support and/or guidance would also be welcome (such as the recent " alternatives to mental health counselling (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26515)" thread) , along with kind and supportive replies. Perhaps the title should be "Support, Gratitude and Inspiration". While the emphasis would be on original postings, short (like 20 lines) forwarded/quoted pieces be accepted. links could be used for longer pieces.

This would also go hand in hand with another feature I am working on that would allow members to express their gratitude for a post with a single click. The idea being that if community has a easy way to express gratitude for a given post it would create a nice positive feedback loop that would help inspire more helpful and kind posts and it would enhance the sense of community that WaccoBB.net strives to nurture. I hope to have this ready within the next week or two.

Whaddya think? Would you read it? Would you post to it? Other ideas are most welcome!

AnnaLisaW

09-30-2007, 07:10 PM

The idea of a "Gratitude and Inspiration" section might be a nice idea. However, Barry, I would not want to host an area like that! It would be like living with 5 teenage girls. It could be pure delight one day and hair pulling frustration the next. Emotions are a tricky subject and those who cannot handle the rudeness of a few trolls might unexpectedly find themselves feeling violated where they though they were safe.
Perhaps if more of us, like someguy, have the courage to speak up to those who are hurtful, and use the "ignore option" when needed, we can truly form a strong, loving community, a cyber-village.
In my younger years, (before the internet) I was my family's troll and I often said and did hurtful things. Over the years, my few friends and family have helped me soften my edges. Instead of being told regularly how badly I hurt someone's feelings, I am often told that people really like me and I have a lot more friends. The proverb "It takes a village to raise a child," also pertains to adults who still need to grow up.
At 55, I'm still growing up, too.
Love to all, AnnaLisa

ThePhiant

09-30-2007, 08:55 PM

AnnaLisa,

I think Barry believes in creating a community that is inclusive rather than exclusive.
it takes all kinds of people to make a village.
"someguy" is not standing up against those who are hurtful, but is merely expressing his feelings and frustrations and expressing his need for a safe place.
I see nothing wrong with that
apparently you were allowed to rebel and find your way back.
do you want to deny that remarkable recovery to anyone else?

The idea of a "Gratitude and Inspiration" section might be a nice idea. However, Barry, I would not want to host an area like that! It would be like living with 5 teenage girls. It could be pure delight one day and hair pulling frustration the next. Emotions are a tricky subject and those who cannot handle the rudeness of a few trolls might unexpectedly find themselves feeling violated where they though they were safe.
Perhaps if more of us, like someguy, have the courage to speak up to those who are hurtful, and use the "ignore option" when needed, we can truly form a strong, loving community, a cyber-village.
In my younger years, (before the internet) I was my family's troll and I often said and did hurtful things. Over the years, my few friends and family have helped me soften my edges. Instead of being told regularly how badly I hurt someone's feelings, I am often told that people really like me and I have a lot more friends. The proverb "It takes a village to raise a child," also pertains to adults who still need to grow up.
At 55, I'm still growing up, too.
Love to all, AnnaLisa

AnnaLisaW

09-30-2007, 10:31 PM

Dear Phiant,
I just took you off my ignore list about an hour ago. I had placed you there because I found many of your posts difficult to understand and I didn't like the harshness you sometimes displayed in response to other people's posts. After my statements about villages, I decided it was time to try to understand you again however the last one of your posts that I read confounds me. The post seems to agree with me in substance and yet the tone is confrontational.
The statement "'someguy' is not standing up against those who are hurtful," tries to negate my statement that someguy had "the courage to speak up." All you needed to say was someguy "is merely expressing his feelings and frustrations and expressing his need for a safe place." Your statement is valid; there was no need to negate mine.
The statement: "apparently you were allowed to rebel and find your way back," implies that my difficulty in learning to comunicate gently was a result of not caring rather than a lack of understanding. People who do not care about the feelings of other people are rare. Those who ignorantly hurt others are common.
Finally, the last question, "do you want to deny that remarkable recovery to anyone else?" implies that I am unwilling to let others change. This could not be farther from the truth and I find it difficult to understand how someone could have inferred that from what I wrote.
It is possible to state a divergent opinion without saying that someone else is wrong just as there are many different roads from the city to the ocean. One person may feel that the best road is smooth and straight, another may prefer the winding, bumby road with the great view. Both may enjoy the beach at sunset but neither should tell the other she is wrong about how she travels.
May each of us learn from one another.
-AnnaLisa

theindependenteye

09-30-2007, 11:11 PM

Friends—

Just a couple of brief thoughts on this thread.

I've been on maybe half a dozen e-lists where the issue of "safe space" came up regularly. Frankly, I don't think there is such a thing. This is a *public* space, like the street, not like a private home with friends invited. Unlike the street, of course, it invites sometimes intense discussion with total strangers, and solely through words, no visual cues, and without the benefit of a copy editor or a lot of mulling-over. That's an entirely novel situation in human evolution. So if you're looking for psychological security, this probably isn't the place to find it.

On the other hand, in a sense it's totally safe. No one is going to shoot you in the side of the head, as they might on the freeway. Yes, I know that while my mom constantly quoted, "words will never hurt you," words *do* hurt. But it's entirely up to you how you take them, and as someone suggested, maybe this is a good place to get practice in the water-off-the-duck's-back strategy.

That's not at all to say that sarcasm & abruptness & personal attacks are to be condoned, or that tact & common courtesy disparaged. Rude bullies generally make a brief big stink on a list like this, then hunker off into the distance pretty fast, so they're not the biggest problem. Worse, to my mind, are the fairly nice, fairly reasonable people, who just can't quite resist just that one squirt of sarcasm they feel gives their post that extra zing. It's like the little kid in the back seat of the car who keeps punching his little sister and then says, "My elbow slipped." I've done that kind of thing, and to my mind it's childish and self-indulgent.

theindependenteye

09-30-2007, 11:16 PM

Following up—

Sorry I didn't sign my last post. Hit the wrong key and it sent itself before I was finished. Which probably indicates that I've said enough on the subject.

Cheers—
Conrad

Tars

10-01-2007, 06:59 AM

This is a *public* space, like the street, not like a private home with friends invited.

Hmm...I see it about 160° different - not quite exactly opposite. This is a public place only in the sense that there are are a large variety of entities here. But it's more like a large invitation-only private gathering, where the host will eject any guest unable to act in a civil manner. The "public place" analogy would fit usenet newsgroups, or craigslist forums. Anything goes on those, which may be why usenet has faded, and craigslist is populated by....well, check for yourself.

I don't waste my time on those "forums" anymore. I love to read the range of opinion on any subject. But if there are those who can't express themselves beyond a 7th-grade emotional level, they really aren't contributing anything positive, are they? I warmly appreciate light moderation, and loose but definite group expectations about civilized behavior.

ThePhiant

10-01-2007, 11:53 AM

AnnaLisa,

your response to my post, I think, is exactly what "someguy" is referring to,
you take my writing apart, tell me what I should have said, mix in some of your assumptions of what I did say and then tell me I shouldn't do that to you!! LOL
When I read your previous post, I found it not clear of your position, so I threw out some questions for clarity.
that's all
IThe statement: "apparently you were allowed to rebel and find your way back," implies that my difficulty in learning to comunicate gently was a result of not caring rather than a lack of understanding.
but I would like you to show me how my words were an implication of "a result of not caring rather than a lack of understanding."
that is quite a jump from what was written
and I think that is one of the reasons some people feel intimidated to post

LuLu

Dear Phiant,
I just took you off my ignore list about an hour ago. I had placed you there because I found many of your posts difficult to understand and I didn't like the harshness you sometimes displayed in response to other people's posts. After my statements about villages, I decided it was time to try to understand you again however the last one of your posts that I read confounds me. The post seems to agree with me in substance and yet the tone is confrontational.
The statement "'someguy' is not standing up against those who are hurtful," tries to negate my statement that someguy had "the courage to speak up." All you needed to say was someguy "is merely expressing his feelings and frustrations and expressing his need for a safe place." Your statement is valid; there was no need to negate mine.
The statement: "apparently you were allowed to rebel and find your way back," implies that my difficulty in learning to comunicate gently was a result of not caring rather than a lack of understanding. People who do not care about the feelings of other people are rare. Those who ignorantly hurt others are common.
Finally, the last question, "do you want to deny that remarkable recovery to anyone else?" implies that I am unwilling to let others change. This could not be farther from the truth and I find it difficult to understand how someone could have inferred that from what I wrote.
It is possible to state a divergent opinion without saying that someone else is wrong just as there are many different roads from the city to the ocean. One person may feel that the best road is smooth and straight, another may prefer the winding, bumby road with the great view. Both may enjoy the beach at sunset but neither should tell the other she is wrong about how she travels.
May each of us learn from one another.
-AnnaLisa

AnnaLisaW

10-01-2007, 12:57 PM

"The Phiant" also sent me an even more detailed explaination of her opinions in a private email. It was very well stated and showed me how I misread her original post and did to her what I accused her of doing to others. I'm glad I stopped ignoring her and started to listen.
Thank-you, Lulu
-ALW

AnnaLisaW

10-01-2007, 02:12 PM

I remember when I first started visiting chat rooms and bulletin boards. I got my feelings hurt, I was threatened and I even got bounced from one and didn't understand why. Communities like this really make us think about what we have to say and how we say it. What is often meant as a joke is taken seriously and sometimes we are laughed at when we open up our hearts. Other times, we try to be nice and wind up hurting someone.
It is sort of like learning to swim, you have to get your feet wet. If you don't want to get hurt, enter the water slowly and carefully instead of diving in head first.
Blessings, AnnaLisa
P.S. I tend to jump in with both feet. I've hit a lot of sharp rocks that way!

someguy

10-01-2007, 04:25 PM

Im glad to hear that some of you agree with me on this. Its great to have meaningful discussions, and even criticism is great and can be constructive. Its sad though that sometimes, (even though we have the great right to "free speech") we dont feel we can speak our minds freely, and we can feel cornered or bullied into silence. Im sure there are other issues out there in this world that are analogical to this one. But I feel that if we (the people on Wacco) can be supportive, sympathetic, and positive towards one another, (while being true to ourselves) that all of our experiences here will be much more beneficial to our lives and our Waccoesk community. Thanks again everyone, I feel much more comfortable and confident now.
Peace.

artwizard

10-01-2007, 10:59 PM

I am finding this to be a very intriquing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity.

I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foriegn to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience.

With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an esthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard.

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.

With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that.

One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and dischage and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthfull, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge.

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.

Tony

AnnaLisaW

10-02-2007, 08:30 AM

I am finding this to be a very intriguing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. ...
THANK-YOU<o:p></o:p>
That really needed to be said. I try to write from the heart and too often hurt people when I do. Your post helps me to understand the value of using discretion to temper the painful truth into a lasting truth.<o:p></o:p>
-AnnaLisa<o:p></o:p>

mykil

10-02-2007, 10:12 AM

I really have mixed emotions about this post. For one I am not at all sure that Someguy isn’t really as bad as all the rest of us, just making a post hoping to draw some attention. That would be a troll! YES? Not that there is anything wrong with it! But still I have my suspicions.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>
I looked on your profile and saw that you are 21 years old? This in itself shows proof in the pudding to say. IF that wasn’t your intention then this might just be a reality check for you. You need to grow up and jump in with both feet dude! Say what is on your mind; let us know what you think. Don’t just sit by the sidelines and keep it all bottled because you are afraid. This is what the government wants you to do, and I for one think you are better than this!!!!! Don’t be afraid to get you feet wet, if it’s your feelings you are afraid of getting hurt, don’t be, harden you heart and make the best of a good thing. You might need a little heartache to achieve your goals in life to begin with!!!! I think its really sweet that you are all lovely-dovey but the truth of the matter is this will get you nowhere and we the people of this really fucked up country need people to stand up and speak there minds. If you can’t talk here to people that care then what is this to say for the rest of the world? That really needs you to be able to speak your mind?
<o:p></o:p>
I don’t mean to be soooo harsh, but this really is the way I feel about your post, I do not mean to mock you in anyway, just a reality check on your part. Get in the fight to make a difference in our society!!!! You are probably a really nice SOMEGUY but the truth hurts sometimes and I for one would love to hear your opinions and everyone else’s opinions on all the subjects we talk about!!! What is the worst that may happen if you post? Do you think someone that doesn’t agree with you will hurt your feelings? Get over it and just say what is on your mind!!!!
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Looksgood

10-02-2007, 09:37 PM

This is, in my opinion, the best contribution I have yet seen on WACCO. It succinctly explains and clarifies the art of communication that builds, as opposed to communication that tears down and destroys, which is endemic to our culture. This post should be required reading for all who participate in these discussions, and placed permanently at the top of every forum, and used as a scale by which to measure contributions to the discussion.

Perhaps indeed (Barry?) it deserves a forum of its own; kind of a meta discussion; a discussion about discussion.

Patrick Brinton

I am finding this to be a very intriquing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity.

I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foriegn to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience.

With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an esthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard.

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.

With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that.

One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and dischage and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthfull, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge.

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.

Tony

jay

10-03-2007, 06:39 AM

Tony....

Beautifully expressed!

- jay

I am finding this to be a very intriguing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity. ...

someguy

01-27-2009, 11:26 AM

hales

01-27-2009, 10:30 PM

I don't mean to go all cosmic on you, Tony,
but I just had this conversation while talking to a friend on Sunday.. actually these ideas have been percolating on my "back burner", for a while now. I really appreciate your very clear expression of these ideas..

Scott.

I am finding this to be a very intriquing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity.

I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foriegn to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience.

With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an esthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard.

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.

With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that.

One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and dischage and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthfull, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge.

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.

Tony

Lisa W

01-28-2009, 12:49 AM

I must reply, if only to have this original posting viewed once again by us all. Thank you Tony for an eloquently spoken truth that spoke to my heart. This is an area I have been thinking over recently, to speak the truth and only the truth, so help me . . . . and strongly wishing others would do the same. We are many of us on a learning curve in so many areas of our lives, the greater culture, our relationships, our microcosms of reality and so we must also be patient with ourselves and each other and keep striving to be our best. Ultimately we are all human and have our foibles and differences which makes life much more fun and rich. I am sure enjoying it.

Bonne nuit ~

Lisa

I am finding this to be a very intriquing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity.

I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foriegn to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience.

With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an esthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard.

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.

With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that.

One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and dischage and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthfull, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge.

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.

Tony

babaruss

01-28-2009, 10:47 PM

It would really be just lovely if we all had the ability, and understanding Tony projects. The simple truth is that we all come to this forum just as we are...you guys do remember those 'come as you are' parties from eons ago don't you ?
I have no problem admitting my limitations, and move as best I am able to correct them (once I recognize what they are).
In lieu of those discoveries about my self, I have little, or no choice other than to continue being myself.
This wanting everyone on the same page, with the same understanding, is and the same attitude is not ever going to happen on a public forum.
What does happen (for the most part) is that a large portion of Wacco B.B. participants learn new ways to communicate, different ways to express feelings like anger, and frustration other than brashly assailing those who differ from our point of view.
I get plenty of help from people on this list and sometimes it takes a while to realize I was just helped and not dumped on. I too 'am sensitive, get hurt easily, and don't suffer well'.
I also have to struggle daily just to figure out what some people on this list are actually saying. Tony lost me several times before I got the gist of what he was sharing.
But enough of my limitations.
No wait there is more.
I'm not too much afraid of entering the fray when certain subjects are involved.
I have yet to let myself get into the sort of stuff the original poster referred to. I have enough inadequacies to contend with, without fumbling about exposing my limited knowledge regarding women, dating, and other such 'discovery' issues.
I'm gaining on God age-wise, and yet feel every bit as much the original poster's discomfort. I too have anxiety about exposing my ignorance about what women want..let alone hanging out my loneliness, neediness, or any of those softer, more vulnerable aspects of my being for others to mess with.
I support any man who can come to this forum to even mention these kinds of doubts. Better still I admire anyone courageous enough to broach the subject at all.
Russ

I am finding this to be a very intriquing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity.

I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foriegn to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience.

With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an esthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard.

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.

With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that.

One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and dischage and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthfull, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge.

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.

Tony

RichBodyJuicer

01-28-2009, 10:58 PM

"a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases"

Tony's eloquent thoughts on creative expression and communication reminds me of tantric lovemaking. That will be a fun thought to hold the next time I am in a conversation.

Rich

hales

01-28-2009, 11:22 PM

Russ, am I way off, here, or do you think that you could simply posit a question or request for people to share their points of view, when you want to know more? You don't necessarily have to make yourself so vulnerable to others if you just want information and understanding. You can keep it simple and ask for simple answers. Not everyone gives very much information to participate in on-line discussions.. you don't have to either, unless you want to. This is just one possible way to get more understanding. The cool thing about on-line communication, is that you only have to be as vulnerable as you choose to. You don't even have to reveal what you look like, how much money you make or what you do for a living, if you don't want to. No one knows if you live in a mobile home, a station wagon or a mansion.

And, you don't have to get involved if things just seem complicated, confusing, overwhelming, or whatever. this is no reflection on you, on the contrary, it may indicate good sense and discretion.

That being said, I agree that all we can do, is be ourselves, and operate within our own limitations, (or freedoms ), such as they may be.. yet how are we going to learn if we simply stay within our comfort zones, and avoid any vulnerability or possible conflict?

Best wishes to you, (an all of us!) for better understanding,

Scott.

It would really be just lovely if we all had the ability, and understanding Tony projects. The simple truth is that we all come to this forum just as we are...you guys do remember those 'come as you are' parties from eons ago don't you ?
I have no problem admitting my limitations, and move as best I am able to correct them (once I recognize what they are).
In lieu of those discoveries about my self, I have little, or no choice other than to continue being myself.
This wanting everyone on the same page, with the same understanding, is and the same attitude is not ever going to happen on a public forum.
What does happen (for the most part) is that a large portion of Wacco B.B. participants learn new ways to communicate, different ways to express feelings like anger, and frustration other than brashly assailing those who differ from our point of view.
I get plenty of help from people on this list and sometimes it takes a while to realize I was just helped and not dumped on. I too 'am sensitive, get hurt easily, and don't suffer well'.
I also have to struggle daily just to figure out what some people on this list are actually saying. Tony lost me several times before I got the gist of what he was sharing.
But enough of my limitations.
No wait there is more.
I'm not too much afraid of entering the fray when certain subjects are involved.
I have yet to let myself get into the sort of stuff the original poster referred to. I have enough inadequacies to contend with, without fumbling about exposing my limited knowledge regarding women, dating, and other such 'discovery' issues.
I'm gaining on God age-wise, and yet feel every bit as much the original poster's discomfort. I too have anxiety about exposing my ignorance about what women want..let alone hanging out my loneliness, neediness, or any of those softer, more vulnerable aspects of my being for others to mess with.
I support any man who can come to this forum to even mention these kinds of doubts. Better still I admire anyone courageous enough to broach the subject at all.
Russ

nicofrog

01-29-2009, 12:29 AM

Sorry but I'm being harsh on everybody, It's simple, I call it Dog in a closed car barking!!
very brave people without a real name"some guy?" come on...
can sit there in their supposed anonnimity
and say RUFF RUFF I'M TUFF even if they only have a half a testicle and are four foot three and weigh 38 lbs!
the blank wide screen should never be confused with community, It aint, its just a machine......go outside!
oh my NAME is NICO ...why do we live in a culture that institutionalises hiding without even noticing!

I was going to post a response to the question regarding what men are looking for, but I can never seem to gather enough gonads to post my opinion. Im scared that anytime I post anything Ill be forced into playing defense against someone who is reacting to my post simply to create conflict. Often I read whats going on here and get sick of all the confusion, chaos, arguments, and disrespect. I know other people feel the same way. So why is this? Why cant we all be civilized and not jump down each others throats all the time? I think sometimes wacco is a great resource for our community, and it has been a good tool for me, But sometimes I get a headache just reading some of the posts on here. Im wondering how we can get together and make this place a little more positive than it already is? Dont be to harsh on me now.
-Peace.

elienos

01-29-2009, 07:06 AM

I think emotional discipline sucks. I think people's bend toward "emotion is bad" on this board is silly. I think it is the jerks who should change, not the sensitive folks. Then maybe the world wouldn't be so full of destruction...

La la la la
Please be careful with me, I'm sensitive and I'd like to stay that way......la la la

I am emotional and intelligent and they are both bonuses (I have seen several times on this board emotion and intelligence being portrayed as opposites). Like on the Gaza threads. damn I have to go to work, I have so much more scolding to do towards the oppressors of emotion on this board....ILL BE BACK grrrrrrrrr:)

Logic can help on realize though that fear is not the best emotional response to jerks, however....

It takes emotional discipline to avoid being hurt by negativity spew and use of insults. Discipline comes with practice, so I encourage you to participate whenever/wherever you can, even though it's sometimes uncomfortable.

I've been and am participating in forums all over the web, and used to do old-time dial-up BBS' before that. Long ago I felt the same angst that you do. But apparently I've grown a psychic callous that allows me to avoid feeling hurt by personal attacks. The callous hasn't hardened my communications style, or hopefully my human sensitivity, it's just formed a protective layer.

You can get a good idea of a poster's mental abilities by their use of insult and name calling. I think it's an inverse relationship. The more someone uses insult, the less capable they are of honest communication. It's their problem, not yours. When they start insulting you, it's because they've run out of anything meaningful to say.

I hope you'll overcome your sensitivity and continue to post, someguy.

Good luck!

Tars

https://www.rpriddle.com/avatar/tagline_john_mayer01.gif

babaruss

01-29-2009, 10:04 AM

There are people who play the 'I am sensitive' game to protect themselves from being contradicted, opposed, or responded to in a manner which they
find unacceptable, or threatening.
This is not sensitivity or so called vulnerability, so much as it is a form of manipulation.
There is a vast difference between stating one's truth, and the vomiting venom all over someone (for posting something one disagrees with).
Some people prefer communication over rage filled invective etc.
Others thrive on abusive 'communication' ala right wing radio personalities.
I'm all for learning to disagree with out being insulting, obnoxious, and hurtful.
But this is what I do...others may damned well not share this sort of thinking.
Russ

La la la la
Please be careful with me, I'm sensitive and I'd like to stay that way......la la la ....

artwizard

01-29-2009, 12:10 PM

Thanks to those who have sent me gratitude for my previous post on this thread. I'll add a little more to what I have said previously...

There are of course many types of communication, Legal Discourse, Business Discourse, and Intimate Conversation. Being a General Community forum the name suggests that what is wanting to happen here is communication that supports community building. I agree with Nico that real community building through a screen interface is difficult, if not impossible to do. However I do believe that this medium can support community.

Some people thrive on debate and much can be learned from this form of communicating. Debate is a disiplined approach to communication. Even with this disipline there is a lot of debate that can be emotional and inspiring. Our passions to communicate our points of view and to share and connect with others drive our participation with these types of forums in the first place.

I think it a wise thing to question other motives to our participation as well. At times I've noticed that communicating here, (and I'm guilty of this too) has the flavor of "I want to win the debate." or "I'm right and their wrong." or "I want to dominate the conversation, and drown out the other voices." It is like always having the loudest voice in the choir, it can still be music but the subtler notes get missed if we don't make room for them.

There are ways to communicate on forums like this that are respectful, avoid dismissiveness, avoid telling others how to feel, work towards connecting and acknowledging our differences, and help build awareness of our reactivity and defensiveness that guard against connecting in the first place.

It is next to impossible to rid oneself of reactivitiy and defensiveness. Our bodies innately react to stimuli without any possible chance at an intervention before these reactions take place. We can however catch ourselves and be responsible for our reactions. Acknowledging how our own biograpies shape our reactivity helps towards that responsiblity.

Our own freedom of expression is only meaningful if others listen to it. The more willing we are to listen to others expressions the more we learn about expressing in ways that will be listened to.

Tony

papanut

01-29-2009, 04:25 PM

Can someone please sprinkle some pixie dust over babaruss's head?

It would really be just lovely if we all had the ability, and understanding Tony projects. The simple truth is that we all come to this forum just as we are...you guys do remember those 'come as you are' parties from eons ago don't you ?
I have no problem admitting my limitations, and move as best I am able to correct them (once I recognize what they are).
In lieu of those discoveries about my self, I have little, or no choice other than to continue being myself.
This wanting everyone on the same page, with the same understanding, is and the same attitude is not ever going to happen on a public forum.
What does happen (for the most part) is that a large portion of Wacco B.B. participants learn new ways to communicate, different ways to express feelings like anger, and frustration other than brashly assailing those who differ from our point of view.
I get plenty of help from people on this list and sometimes it takes a while to realize I was just helped and not dumped on. I too 'am sensitive, get hurt easily, and don't suffer well'.
I also have to struggle daily just to figure out what some people on this list are actually saying. Tony lost me several times before I got the gist of what he was sharing.
But enough of my limitations.
No wait there is more.
I'm not too much afraid of entering the fray when certain subjects are involved.
I have yet to let myself get into the sort of stuff the original poster referred to. I have enough inadequacies to contend with, without fumbling about exposing my limited knowledge regarding women, dating, and other such 'discovery' issues.
I'm gaining on God age-wise, and yet feel every bit as much the original poster's discomfort. I too have anxiety about exposing my ignorance about what women want..let alone hanging out my loneliness, neediness, or any of those softer, more vulnerable aspects of my being for others to mess with.
I support any man who can come to this forum to even mention these kinds of doubts. Better still I admire anyone courageous enough to broach the subject at all.
Russ

MsTerry

01-29-2009, 09:48 PM

Ahhhhhhhhh, if the Muse could only inspire us all.
Such lofty thoughts, such lofty words.
But tell me Tony how much Time did it costs you to write your prose?
Many of us write raw. Not using much time to weed out that little bur.
Just that little moment between child rearing and cooking, that little time at work when no one is looking, that almost enough time when the kids do their teeth to type out some thoughts,
Is that what is happening for you?
Maybe we should only post if we can spend 2 hours per post to edit and re-edit, check and re-check?

True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively.
Tony

Lisa W

01-30-2009, 11:26 PM

Why does it have to take any longer to post a thoughtful, respectful and mature response than to post one that is derisive, judgemental and defensive? We can retrain ourselves to control what spills out of our minds and mouths, it takes awareness and responsibility. I am a busy single Mom so for that reason (& others) I don't post very often. But when I am so moved I take enough time to be thoughtful, respectful & mature. Of course, I am human and err often enough. So, whether Tonys response was raw or took him time to compose, it was done well and with respect. I took the time to take it in, as a nugget of wisdom from someone who has enough time to read and think alot. (my assumption)

It seems that regardless of where a person is coming from when they choose to share on Wacco, someone is there ready to pounce on and criticize them. Imagine, before sending something out, if you were going to speak it to that person face to face and then edit accordingly. Also, how would you feel being on the receiving end of that particular piece of written word? It all boils down to The Golden Rule, and as far as I know that's one rule that hopefully still applies to our species. Debate and discussion is enriching, educational and entertaining as long as we hit above the belt.

Confucius say ~ Do not unto another that you would not have him do unto you. Thou needest this law alone, it is the foundation of all the rest.

All for now, Lisa

Ahhhhhhhhh, if the Muse could only inspire us all.
Such lofty thoughts, such lofty words.
But tell me Tony how much Time did it costs you to write your prose?
Many of us write raw. Not using much time to weed out that little bur.
Just that little moment between child rearing and cooking, that little time at work when no one is looking, that almost enough time when the kids do their teeth to type out some thoughts,
Is that what is happening for you?
Maybe we should only post if we can spend 2 hours per post to edit and re-edit, check and re-check?

elienos

01-31-2009, 06:40 AM

To me it feels like those that always sit and write "thoughtfully and eloquently" often tend to think they are somehow better because they put people down in some coded way. They are often just as "derisive, judgmental and defensive" as any other. Sometimes it really is what you say and not how you say it. If I was being written the below email, I would feel belittled. The below post seems to insinuate Ms. Terry is unaware and irresponsible. Maybe she is, maybe not, but to me it is no better said straight out or using the weird techniques they teach you in psychology classes.

Personal attacks and trolling should not be on this board, this is correct, but writing an email well does not mean that the base feelings behind the email aren't evident.

I think it is actually the high horse, educated, coded, respectful put-downs that frighten many posters the most.

Everyone has different personalities and everyone is different. I like diversity myself. Sometimes this board seems so facetious to me. When everyone is writing and belittling from their high horse, I just can't get into it. It reminds me of Graduate School. But those folks are good too. diversity is the key for me....though I again say that doesn't mean I like to see attacks for the sake of attacks, personal attacks, nor flaming. I also think that you shouldn't write on here what you wouldn't say to some if they were in the room.

Why does it have to take any longer to post a thoughtful, respectful and mature response than to post one that is derisive, judgemental and defensive? We can retrain ourselves to control what spills out of our minds and mouths, it takes awareness and responsibility. I am a busy single Mom so for that reason (& others) I don't post very often. But when I am so moved I take enough time to be thoughtful, respectful & mature. Of course, I am human and err often enough. So, whether Tonys response was raw or took him time to compose, it was done well and with respect. I took the time to take it in, as a nugget of wisdom from someone who has enough time to read and think alot. (my assumption)

It seems that regardless of where a person is coming from when they choose to share on Wacco, someone is there ready to pounce on and criticize them. Imagine, before sending something out, if you were going to speak it to that person face to face and then edit accordingly. Also, how would you feel being on the receiving end of that particular piece of written word? It all boils down to The Golden Rule, and as far as I know that's one rule that hopefully still applies to our species. Debate and discussion is enriching, educational and entertaining as long as we hit above the belt.

Confucius say ~ Do not unto another that you would not have him do unto you. Thou needest this law alone, it is the foundation of all the rest.

All for now, Lisa

MsTerry

01-31-2009, 08:40 AM

Sometimes it really is what you say and not how you say it.

I'd like to go one step further, and say that some people can't hear what you are saying unless you hit them over the head with a 2x4 (this is something Braggi suggested to me regarding a certain member)
This is not a face to face medium, this is a discussion-forum, and using email as a vehicle, it has a whole new set of rules.
As someone who uses a more direct approach to confront controversial subjects, I am often the target of ridicule or dismissal without checking to see if there is truth to my style.
I believe that there are many different ways to express oneself and many opportunities to react to them in different ways.
There is no right or wrong way

Barry has created many forums, where one can court the muses and indulge in idle thoughts. He also gave us to choice to pick and choose where we post, what we post and how we post, all within a losely defined set of guidelines. :thumbsup:

StormDancer

01-31-2009, 09:02 AM

I love what Deepak Chopra said in his book, The Third Jesus:

"Two people who hate each others' opinions are mirrors of the same dillema; It doesn't matter if one is a fundamentalist and the other a liberal."

I have found that thoughtful, caring feedback is a great tool for looking at myself and can foster a spirit of fellowship. Rudeness, on the other hand is self-serving and usually produces defensiveness.
-AnnaLisa

babaruss

01-31-2009, 11:24 AM

The Sage Hillel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder) formulated the Golden Rule in order to illustrate the underlying principles of Jewish moral law:
That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn.

From Old Testament books :
Tobit 4:15 "Do to no one what you yourself dislike."
Sirach 31:15 "Recognize that your neighbor feels as you do, and keep in mind your own dislikes."

Jesus was to have said:
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Buddha said:
<dl><dd>One who, while himself seeking happiness, oppresses with violence other beings who also desire happiness, will not attain happiness hereafter.</dd><dt>
</dt><dt>Baha'i teaches:
</dt></dl>"And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbor that which thou choosest for thyself." Baha'u'llah.

Islam
Mohammeds last sermon:

“None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.”

I'm going to stop here rather than to keep adding quotations from world religions and belief systems.
Apparently there is an abundance of this sort of teaching available in all religious and spiritual teachings stretching back some 5,000 years.
Could it just be that the need to be right...to get our own way, trumps such teachings ?
Just wondering
Russ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lisa said:
Confucius say ~ Do not unto another that you would not have him do unto you. Thou needest this law alone, it is the foundation of all the rest.

All for now, Lisa[/quote]

realfire

01-31-2009, 09:31 PM

Hey Barry ,

here in very warm So Cal "))
hope this note finds you

I noticed a posting thread that seemed so intense
"I am Scared to Post on Wacco "

After reading much of the thread, the small excerpt below is what I am writing in response to:

In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins.

Tony

Barry ,

A few years ago and then more recently I suggested that you make some kind of Committment to Kindness/Code of Compassionate Communication contract .

Each person would have the OPTION to sign it or not . Those who were in agreement with it would check yes and those that were not would check no There would then be a symbol of some kind to tell the people apart
( maybe a star or something ).

In this way "freedom of expression " is not contained , but like the ratings on movies , people of a sensitive nature will see the symbol and know that the person who posted was not in agreement with whatever is in the above mentioned contract .

They then get to decide if they want to view what that person wrote .
Yet is does not stop people from being what others call "rough , mean , or harsh " in their comments.

Anger is a form of expression that people have the right to put forth , however in light of the close knit community of wacco, and the intimacy of the topics , we need to honor the people who are not comfortable with that way of communication , as well as those who are .

Is this not what community is about ? Accepting and Honoring ALL ( angry people and vulnerable people )

I LOVE wacco and never cease to promote it . So , please reconsider having some kind of way to ensure a sense of safety and ease for all members .

I am posting this to the thread .

Always with love and respect Betina
By the way who is this guy Tony he sounds wonderful .
And I applaud the Someguy , guy for his vulnerabilty and action
And whoever messes with him I will personally kick their butt LOL !:heart:

Yubajeff

02-01-2009, 02:20 AM

Ms.Lisa, I for one, second that emotion.
Although I am historically phobic regarding confrontations, polite disagreement is inevitable, and even desirable, in any healthy nondysfunctional community. I myself try to temper my statements and opinions with a good shot of humor, and some self-deprecation. I probably overdo it there, on both accounts. We are free to choose to disagree lovingly, or to agree in loveless consensus. To disagree with a negative spirit serves no useful purpose, never furthers the debate, and harms many sensitive soles (so never admit de-feet!).
Yubajeff

Why does it have to take any longer to post a thoughtful, respectful and mature response than to post one that is derisive, judgemental and defensive? We can retrain ourselves to control what spills out of our minds and mouths, it takes awareness and responsibility. I am a busy single Mom so for that reason (& others) I don't post very often. But when I am so moved I take enough time to be thoughtful, respectful & mature. Of course, I am human and err often enough. So, whether Tonys response was raw or took him time to compose, it was done well and with respect. I took the time to take it in, as a nugget of wisdom from someone who has enough time to read and think alot. (my assumption)

It seems that regardless of where a person is coming from when they choose to share on Wacco, someone is there ready to pounce on and criticize them. Imagine, before sending something out, if you were going to speak it to that person face to face and then edit accordingly. Also, how would you feel being on the receiving end of that particular piece of written word? It all boils down to The Golden Rule, and as far as I know that's one rule that hopefully still applies to our species. Debate and discussion is enriching, educational and entertaining as long as we hit above the belt.

Confucius say ~ Do not unto another that you would not have him do unto you. Thou needest this law alone, it is the foundation of all the rest.

All for now, Lisa

podfish

02-02-2009, 08:32 AM

the problem here seems to me to be the opposite of these quotes. Some here prefer kindness and gentle discussion - others are happily curmudgeonly and don't take much very personally. So if you really do want a warm friendly tone you need to consider the others' perspectives, not your own!
this always struck me as a big weakness in the 'do unto others' philosophy....

<...>That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. <...> "Do to no one what you yourself dislike."<...> "Recognize that your neighbor feels as you do, and keep in mind your own dislikes."<...>"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them:<...> choose thou for thy neighbor that which thou choosest for thyself." <...>“None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.”....

photolite

02-02-2009, 10:31 AM

I believe Podfish makes a good point here. Among the many reasons we choose to participate here is "stimulation". I find it stimulating to read others positions, suggestions, confusions...potentially the whole gamut of the human experience. With few exceptions I don't know who any of you are and my conclusions as to your natures are based almost solely on my impressions from your posts, your expressed gratitudes and your personal profiles. I enjoy participating and do so in my own style. That style, I have learned, is on occasion a bit too rough and tumble for some though never intended to be mean or hurtful. I like challenging positions I may not agree with or even just asking the inconvenient question to stimulate my own and your critical thinking synapses.

I recently posted a response to Yubajeff on another thread that was meant to build a little on his post that I found enjoyable. In the spirit of playfulness that I felt he had employed in his post I closed mine with what I considered to be a playful joshing. I felt the main body of my post demonstrated my harmless intent but I was wrong. Jeff sent me a private message expressing his uncertainty. Another member sent me a private message requesting that I stop spreading my hate on this site. I went back and clarified my intent and since have been reluctant to participate as fully as I'd like.

So, my point is that I believe Podfish is correct. We tend to sharpen our interpersonal skills with varying degrees of edge. When I've tried to express some camaraderie I on occasion offended. When others have perhaps extended me a caring hand I may have found it bland and lacking in real conviction. In both instances we were treating others as we wish to be treated ourselves.
Photo

the problem here seems to me to be the opposite of these quotes. Some here prefer kindness and gentle discussion - others are happily curmudgeonly and don't take much very personally. So if you really do want a warm friendly tone you need to consider the others' perspectives, not your own!
this always struck me as a big weakness in the 'do unto others' philosophy....

Yubajeff

02-02-2009, 10:50 AM

My only possible counter to that is: The Meek Shall Inherit The Earth.
It is easy to act kind and gentle even if you are ferocious by nature, but if you are meek by nature than its not possible to mimic ferocity. I have experience personally on both sides, so I know from whence I speak. Do you TRULY desire community, or even world peace, or do you want to split into 2 factions at the getgo? No doubt your side will split further, as to have someone else to fight with. Don't you get this? I can be a raging tiger, but I learned some self-control, and I'm a pussy-cat, don't cha know?
Yubajeff

I believe Podfish makes a good point here. Among the many reasons we choose to participate here is "stimulation". I find it stimulating to read others positions, suggestions, confusions...potentially the whole gamut of the human experience. With few exceptions I don't know who any of you are and my conclusions as to your natures are based almost solely on my impressions from your posts, your expressed gratitudes and your personal profiles. I enjoy participating and do so in my own style. That style, I have learned, is on occasion a bit too rough and tumble for some though never intended to be mean or hurtful. I like challenging positions I may not agree with or even just asking the inconvenient question to stimulate my own and your critical thinking synapses. I recently posted a response to Yubajeff on another thread that was meant to build a little on his post that I found enjoyable. In the spirit of playfulness that I felt he had employed in his post I closed mine with what I considered to be a playful joshing. I felt the main body of my post demonstrated my harmless intent but I was wrong. Jeff sent me a private message expressing his uncertainty. Another member sent me a private message requesting that I stop spreading my hate on this site. I went back and clarified my intent and since have been reluctant to participate as fully as I'd like.
So, my point is that I believe Podfish is correct. We tend to sharpen our interpersonal skills with varying degrees of edge. When I've tried to express some camaraderie I on occasion offended. When others have perhaps extended me a caring hand I may have found it bland and lacking in real conviction. In both instances we were treating others as we wish to be treated ourselves.
Photo

babaruss

02-02-2009, 10:59 AM

"Philosophers, such as Immanuel Kant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant), Friedrich Nietzsche (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche), and Bertrand Russell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell), have objected to the golden rule on a variety of grounds. The most serious among these is its application. How does one know how others want to be treated? The obvious way is to ask them, but this cannot be done if one assumes they have not reached a particular and relevant understanding."
I can go along with this kind of thinking too, but in lieu of not knowing what the 'other' needs..... what's wrong with me following the golden rule
(at least until a 'relevant understanding has been reached') ?
It's not like we're talking about offering a barbecue pork sandwich to a Muslim.
We are talking about offering our best (though possibly limited) understanding of being respectful of others.
I can see no reason to quarrel with such an approach.
Russ

the problem here seems to me to be the opposite of these quotes. Some here prefer kindness and gentle discussion - others are happily curmudgeonly and don't take much very personally. So if you really do want a warm friendly tone you need to consider the others' perspectives, not your own!
this always struck me as a big weakness in the 'do unto others' philosophy....

MsTerry

02-02-2009, 11:17 AM

It is nice to know that I am not the only one who gets into trouble. LOL
I think you hit it right on the nose, PL.
I don't see anything wrong with challenging someone who makes a seemingly innocuous remark, but with grave consequences. eg n4rky stated that WF was underpaying their employees. When I proved this to be false, Barry censored (deleted) my response, for being to provocative.
If we can't playfully craft our responses, we will end up with this bland, flowery soup.

I believe Podfish makes a good point here. Among the many reasons we choose to participate here is "stimulation". I find it stimulating to read others positions, suggestions, confusions...potentially the whole gamut of the human experience. With few exceptions I don't know who any of you are and my conclusions as to your natures are based almost solely on my impressions from your posts, your expressed gratitudes and your personal profiles. I enjoy participating and do so in my own style. That style, I have learned, is on occasion a bit too rough and tumble for some though never intended to be mean or hurtful. I like challenging positions I may not agree with or even just asking the inconvenient question to stimulate my own and your critical thinking synapses. I recently posted a response to Yubajeff on another thread that was meant to build a little on his post that I found enjoyable. In the spirit of playfulness that I felt he had employed in his post I closed mine with what I considered to be a playful joshing. I felt the main body of my post demonstrated my harmless intent but I was wrong. Jeff sent me a private message expressing his uncertainty. Another member sent me a private message requesting that I stop spreading my hate on this site. I went back and clarified my intent and since have been reluctant to participate as fully as I'd like.
So, my point is that I believe Podfish is correct. We tend to sharpen our interpersonal skills with varying degrees of edge. When I've tried to express some comaraderie I on occasion offended. When others have perhaps extended me a caring hand I may have found it bland and lacking in real conviction. In both instances we were treating others as we wish to be treated ourselves.
Photo

photolite

02-02-2009, 11:49 AM

Yubajeff,
With all due respect, I'm hearing more tiger than pussycat. Whether one is preferable over the other would be a value judgment and in my opinion also a matter of circumstance.

Our nature is our nature and it is no easier for the ferocious to act meek than the meek to act ferocious, which isn't to say that we're incapable of modifying our behaviors. I also believe we're capable of getting along without subscribing to the same doctrines all the time. My experience has been that it is not necessarily as black and white, and as divisive, as I infer from your remarks.
The gray tones can offer marvelous diversity.
And last time I checked, at least over the last 5000 years or so, the meek haven't quite got there yet, though believe me I'm rooting for 'em too.:wink:
Photo

My only possible counter to that is: The Meek Shall Inherit The Earth.
It is easy to act kind and gentle even if you are ferocious by nature, but if you are meek by nature than its not possible to mimic ferocity. I have experience personally on both sides, so I know from whence I speak. Do you TRULY desire community, or even world peace, or do you want to split into 2 factions at the getgo? No doubt your side will split further, as to have someone else to fight with. Don't you get this? I can be a raging tiger, but I learned some self-control, and I'm a pussy-cat, don't cha know?
Yubajeff

Yubajeff

02-03-2009, 03:50 AM

Well photolite,
A wise old blues artist sings " The Wise Man Can Play the Fool, but the Fool Can Never Play the Wise Man". That's is the point I was making. Physicists might explain it as the directional flow of energy. Of course it is not strictly black and white, we agree there. Relativity applies almost everywhere, but so does dualism- a concept which predated relativity by a few centuries or may milennium. The trinitarianism of the New Testament is actually a dualism as well, with a 3rd element based on a binary equation: Father: Son are a binary; the Father:Son binary becomes a unity, resulting in a new binary relationship- Father/Son: (Holy) Spirit, which appears to be trinary at first blush, but seems to me to be constructed from 2 binaries. This paradigm can be applied infinitely, until all humanity, the living AND the dead, are part of the equation. Or perhaps this post belongs on the science/spirit thread. I will try to repeat it there, is the regulations allow it.

Thank you for maintaining a pleasant tone in this discussion. I appreciate the stimulation you provide my cerebrum.
Yubajeff[/quote]

[quote=photolite;81289]Yubajeff,
With all due respect, I'm hearing more tiger than pussycat. Whether one is preferable over the other would be a value judgment and in my opinion also a matter of circumstance.

Our nature is our nature and it is no easier for the ferocious to act meek than the meek to act ferocious, which isn't to say that we're incapable of modifying our behaviors.

kpage9

02-03-2009, 09:12 AM

Good Point--also: the golden rule applies to my OWN behavior, not a standard for me to hold others to. (Ideally.)

the problem here seems to me to be the opposite of these quotes. Some here prefer kindness and gentle discussion - others are happily curmudgeonly and don't take much very personally. So if you really do want a warm friendly tone you need to consider the others' perspectives, not your own!
this always struck me as a big weakness in the 'do unto others' philosophy....

photolite

02-04-2009, 09:53 AM

Jeff,
I have to admit feeling a bit perplexed by certain comments you made. Once again I find myself enjoying the intellectual stimulation you provide regarding the physics of human behavior (a good friend of mine co-authored a text book in use at Harvard that explains some human behaviors in mathematical equations) yet your comment that I pasted below reads to me as basically saying "I'm right and you're wrong." "I'm good and your bad".

"Do you TRULY desire community, or even world peace, or do you want to split into 2 factions at the getgo? No doubt your side will split further, as to have someone else to fight with. Don't you get this?"

At the same time you thank me for my pleasant tone you also imply I wish to "split" and "fight", which strikes me as rather strong.
Without differing opinions there's not a whole lot to talk about. I guess I'm at a loss as to why mine seem to be demonized here.
Photo

Well photolite,
A wise old blues artist sings " The Wise Man Can Play the Fool, but the Fool Can Never Play the Wise Man". That's is the point I was making. Physicists might explain it as the directional flow of energy. Of course it is not strictly black and white, we agree there. Relativity applies almost everywhere, but so does dualism- a concept which predated relativity by a few centuries or may milennium. The trinitarianism of the New Testament is actually a dualism as well, with a 3rd element based on a binary equation: Father: Son are a binary; the Father:Son binary becomes a unity, resulting in a new binary relationship- Father/Son: (Holy) Spirit, which appears to be trinary at first blush, but seems to me to be constructed from 2 binaries. This paradigm can be applied infinitely, until all humanity, the living AND the dead, are part of the equation. Or perhaps this post belongs on the science/spirit thread. I will try to repeat it there, is the regulations allow it.

Thank you for maintaining a pleasant tone in this discussion. I appreciate the stimulation you provide my cerebrum.
Yubajeff

Yubajeff,
With all due respect, I'm hearing more tiger than pussycat. Whether one is preferable over the other would be a value judgment and in my opinion also a matter of circumstance.

Our nature is our nature and it is no easier for the ferocious to act meek than the meek to act ferocious, which isn't to say that we're incapable of modifying our behaviors.

hales

02-04-2009, 11:16 AM

Hi, everyone.. apparently I sent this privately to Photolite and he suggested I post it to the group thread.. ; )

Scott.

> Hi, Photolite.. hi, everyone.. ; )
>
> You made some good points. I just googled to find out what percent of
> face-to-face communication is verbal, and found various references stating
> that from 50-95 percent of communication is NON-verbal.. this means that,
> to be understood fully, we have to make up for all of that non-verbal
> information, by whatever means available. (ie: emoticons, written
> clarification, explanation, illustration, analogies, etc..) And perhaps
> it's asking a lot to expect someone else to understand some
> double-entendres, dry humor, etc.. unless the groundwork and rapport
> has already been established.
>
> People use facial expressions, body language, context and other cues to see
> what a person "really means" when they are speaking.. except of course > in written or email conversations, where all this is lacking.. not only that,
> but on-line, it's much harder to tell a person's cultural back-ground,
> educational level, or even if they are who they claim to be.
> As you get to know someone, these things emerge, eventually, but in large,
> lightly moderated group discussions it's sort of wild-west-y, sometimes..
> with all the usual suspects and characters.
>
> IMO, the burden is on the person doing the expression, (if they want to be
> understood), to communicate clearly and with good will, to the best of
> their ability. It's my goal to grow in my ability to communicate and
> understand others better, no matter how adept or clumsy, sophisticated or
> simple they may be at expressing themselves. I also want to have a more
> positive relationship with others, and to disengage if there is not a
> positive intention on one or both sides of a discussion.
>
> I think that I am able to handle some turbulence, heated discussion, etc.,
> and I usually don't take things too seriously or personally. What I'm
> interested in on this group is to co-create a community where people feel
> free to express themselves, while being aware and sensitive (it's not a
> dirty word!), to the feelings of others who might be less battle-hardened
> or adrenalin-addicted.
>
> Even a "too-cool-for-school skate-boarder or a punk-rocker is capable of
> letting a little old lady get on a bus, first, or can help up a kid who has
> fallen down, don't you think? I think it's kind of simplistic, to say the
> least, to expect everyone to have the same level of sensitivity or lack of
> it. I guess it's not realistic for me to expect people to have the same
> agenda that I have but I think it's worth at least communicating with you
> all about it. I know at least some of you share some of my views and
> preferences, otherwise I wouldn't be here, anymore.
>
> I hope all of you are enjoying your day.. ; )
>
> Scott.
>

Yubajeff

02-04-2009, 11:20 AM

But Photolite,
Isn't this outcome inevitable? Ultimately everything exists in dualistic opposition. Dialectical materialism , electomagnetic polarity, Qi (yin-yang), Prana (in-out breaths), binary computer language, binary neuronal physiology, dualism going back to the earliest philosophers, Tantra (Shiva-Shakti), ad infinitum, or nauseum perhaps. It is the basis of all creation. Yes it is difficult to balance the energy-the middle way-it must take a lifetime. I strive to find the midpoint: I don't wish to be agressive, but I've also repressed this side of me most of my life, but I lived in fear.
Now I have released it, and you are aiding me in tempering the dragon within me. For this I do thank you.
I'm a pacifist and a vegetarian, but 2 months ago I met a man who taught me to kill someone with a knife. He then insisted we fight with 8" cleavers in my kitchen, in Nevada City. I used my dance moves, he taught me how to use the knife, and I drew first blood (a flesh wound on his thigh). He was pleased. I was a good student and he was a good teacher. He spent the night, and I never saw him again.
Right and wrong are arbitrary for the most part, as are pain and pleasure -simple neurobiological events with no basis physical basis. I do believe there exists good and evil however, and these are not arbitrary, but that is definitely not the issue under discussion. Forgive me if I was "demonizing" you; it was not my conscious intention. If it was unconsciously intended then I take responsibility for that too, and I do apologize.
With Friends like PHotolite, I don't NEED enemies!
Anyway, I love my enemies too, and try to keep them closer than my friends (but they keep running away).
Yubajeff

Jeff,
I have to admit feeling a bit perplexed by certain comments you made. Once again I find myself enjoying the intellectual stimulation you provide regarding the physics of human behavior (a good friend of mine co-authored a text book in use at Harvard that explains some human behaviors in mathematical equations) yet your comment that I pasted below reads to me as basically saying "I'm right and you're wrong." "I'm good and your bad".

"Do you TRULY desire community, or even world peace, or do you want to split into 2 factions at the getgo? No doubt your side will split further, as to have someone else to fight with. Don't you get this?"

At the same time you thank me for my pleasant tone you also imply I wish to "split" and "fight", which strikes me as rather strong.
Without differing opinions there's not a whole lot to talk about. I guess I'm at a loss as to why mine seem to be demonized here.
Photo

photolite

02-04-2009, 09:32 PM

Now I'm scared to post on wacco.
Photo

But Photolite,
Isn't this outcome inevitable? Ultimately everything exists in dualistic opposition. Dialectical materialism , electomagnetic polarity, Qi (yin-yang), Prana (in-out breaths), binary computer language, binary neuronal physiology, dualism going back to the earliest philosophers, Tantra (Shiva-Shakti), ad infinitum, or nauseum perhaps. It is the basis of all creation. Yes it is difficult to balance the energy-the middle way-it must take a lifetime. I strive to find the midpoint: I don't wish to be agressive, but I've also repressed this side of me most of my life, but I lived in fear.
Now I have released it, and you are aiding me in tempering the dragon within me. For this I do thank you.
I'm a pacifist and a vegetarian, but 2 months ago I met a man who taught me to kill someone with a knife. He then insisted we fight with 8" cleavers in my kitchen, in Nevada City. I used my dance moves, he taught me how to use the knife, and I drew first blood (a flesh wound on his thigh). He was pleased. I was a good student and he was a good teacher. He spent the night, and I never saw him again.
Right and wrong are arbitrary for the most part, as are pain and pleasure -simple neurobiological events with no basis physical basis. I do believe there exists good and evil however, and these are not arbitrary, but that is definitely not the issue under discussion. Forgive me if I was "demonizing" you; it was not my conscious intention. If it was unconsciously intended then I take responsibility for that too, and I do apologize.
With Friends like PHotolite, I don't NEED enemies!
Anyway, I love my enemies too, and try to keep them closer than my friends (but they keep running away).
Yubajeff

babaruss

02-04-2009, 10:23 PM

God this is why I love this site !!
A far too funny response to ignore
definitely one which deserves more than
a quick touch of the gratitude button !!!!
Russ

Now I'm scared to post on wacco

" .....2 months ago I met a man who taught me to kill someone with a knife. He then insisted we fight with 8" cleavers in my kitchen, in Nevada City. I used my dance moves, he taught me how to use the knife, and I drew first blood (a flesh wound on his thigh)...."

Sylph

02-04-2009, 10:48 PM

I love it! ROTF and all that!

Now I'm scared to post on wacco.Photo

I'm a little worried, too.

" .....2 months ago I met a man who taught me to kill someone with a knife. He then insisted we fight with 8" cleavers in my kitchen, in Nevada City. I used my dance moves, he taught me how to use the knife, and I drew first blood (a flesh wound on his thigh)...."
Yikes!

I'm with Scott on the difficulty of being understood by our written words alone. I may think I'm being wry or funny, but it comes out mean or caustic...Even with the little 'smiley's or italics, etc. It behooves us to take a little more care and effort if we want to be understood and not cause angst in other people and needless drama.
Point two, is that if something does piss you off in another's post...please try to attribute decent motives to the poster, until they clarify their meaning.

MsTerry

02-05-2009, 08:26 AM

God this is why I love this site !!

Baba you didn't make the connection

" .....2 months ago I met a man who taught me to kill someone with a knife. He then insisted we fight with 8" cleavers in my kitchen, in Nevada City. I used my dance moves, he taught me how to use the knife, and I drew first blood (a flesh wound on his thigh)...."
Anyway, I love my enemies too, and try to keep them closer than my friends (but they keep running away).Poor guy, doesn't know how to keep a friendship alive. LOL

hales

02-05-2009, 10:03 AM

I would try direct compression and maybe a tourniquet, then after cleaning, a sterile gauze bandage.. ; )

Baba you didn't make the connectionPoor guy, doesn't know how to keep a friendship alive. LOL

hales

02-05-2009, 10:21 AM

I love it! ROTF and all that!

Photo

I'm a little worried, too.

Yikes!

I'm with Scott on the difficulty of being understood by our written words alone. I may think I'm being wry or funny, but it comes out mean or caustic...Even with the little 'smiley's or italics, etc. It behooves us to take a little more care and effort if we want to be understood and not cause angst in other people and needless drama.
Point two, is that if something does piss you off in another's post...please try to attribute decent motives to the poster, until they clarify their meaning.

Hi, Sylph..

I'm with you about avoiding needless drama.. For me the next step , even if the motives of the other person are not "decent".. even if they are downright nasty, or just messed-up in some way, is to get out of the way and just not let it be my problem. I don't have to get involved in any way, unless by doing so, I am benefiting the larger community.

I commute a couple of days a week, in heavy traffic, and it's a good exercise just to pull to another lane and let the tail-gating jerk fly on by.
Not much I can do about the hazard they represent, unless it's worth calling 911 and reporting them to the authorities.

I used to do things like tap my brakes when being tail-gated, until I lived in the East Bay for a while, and found out that one can get killed playing games in traffic. Some people out there are much crazier than I am and possibly armed and under the influence of god knows what!

How does this apply to on-line discussions? I guess what I'm sayin' is, I can't be responsible for anyone else's attitude, way of expression, intentions, etc., but I can be less reactive, sarcastic, and so on, and learn to take things less personally.

I've been reading and thinking about Aikido, a little, lately.

The Leadership Dojo - by Richard Strozzi-Heckler (https://www.theleadershipdojo.com/)

The idea of fully engaging, yet remaining grounded in my own center of gravity. Being non-resistant and flowing with, rather than fighting the incoming energy, without judging it. Redirecting, or simply stepping out of the way, rather than opposing, confronting, fighting, and so on. Of course, it's an ongoing practice to begin to apply these ideas.

And Waccobb is a cool place to practice them in a relatively benign environment... ; )

Scott.

babaruss

02-05-2009, 11:02 AM

How kind of you to offer directions on how to stop the bleeding, and treat a wound !
Since this whole thing has kept me in 'stitches' can you offer some help there too ?
Russ

I would try direct compression and maybe a tourniquet, then after cleaning, a sterile gauze bandage.. ; )

hales

02-05-2009, 11:21 AM

Um, keep track of the thread and not too much "needling"? ; )

Seriously, I'm having a slow day at work and have nothing better to do, unfortunately. If I get pompous or boring, give me a (gentle) nudge, okay?
I'm just interested in good, clean fun.

Scott.

How kind of you to offer directions on how to stop the bleeding, and treat a wound !
Since this whole thing has kept me in 'stitches' can you offer some help there too ?
Russ

babaruss

02-05-2009, 11:59 AM

Oh God Scott...... an even worse groaner than mine !!
So far your interests are well within those parameters.
Carry on Dr. Scott.
Russ !!

Um, keep track of the thread and not too much "needling"? ; )

Seriously, I'm having a slow day at work and have nothing better to do, unfortunately. If I get pompous or boring, give me a (gentle) nudge, okay?
I'm just interested in good, clean fun.

Scott.

  Quote:
babaruss wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/orangebuttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/general-community/26485-im-scared-post-wacco-2.html#post81533)
How kind of you to offer directions on how to stop the bleeding, and treat a wound !
Since this whole thing has kept me in 'stitches' can you offer some help there too ?
Russ

Yubajeff

02-06-2009, 06:24 AM

OK Photolite, I am starting to get and appreciate your sense of humor, although it is drier than my ex-wife. I prefer wordplay (and foreplay) myself. Puns and Tom Swifties are good, but are even harder than a good man to find. I think slapstick may be making a comeback, and of course sexual innuendo has never been out of fashion. Perhaps we should be on the look-out for the return of Oscar Wilde. Please report any sightings on this thread, I suspect he is alive and living in Sebastopol under an assumed name and a foreign body. Joke (not my forte): What do you get when you cross 1000 lawyers and 1000 lesbians?
Answer: You don't get dick.
Credits (and complaints) to KiKoini, my new partner-in-criminal mirth from Santa Rosa, a native Hawaiian from Maui and well worth meeting. You can't miss him if you hang out a bit at the Santa Rosa Community market. He is a true comic, but he is not on-line. In fact he is barely off-line according the Bodega Bay park rangers, who kept him amused for 2 hours while I strolled the bird walk with the fabulous artist known as Zoe/Johana, who sang soft sweet poetry to me, and cried real tears, and then disappeared. She did turn up 2 nights later at The Last Days Saloon, where I was trying to get in (it was sold out) just as she was being escorted out (I can't imagine why). She was clever enough to get me in free on her ticket. She was there with her partner, who seemed capable of escorting her safely home, but I left early since no one else was dancing, and I don't much like heavy metal, especially BAD heavy metal, which I suppose makes it all the more popular with the fans, if I understand the relevant musical neuropsychology/neurobiology, allegedly an interest of mine. I don't actually consider this this noise to be processed in the same brain region, and an interesting experiment would be to preform functional MRI or PET scanning on subjects while they are listening to heavy metal, rap, classic jazz and blues, classical, and silence (for a control). Maybe I can interested Dr.Levitin....
Forgive me for apparently turning this post into my blog for the day; I awaken each day with this maniacal writer who invaded my body overnight, and there is no stopping him until evening, when I turn back into Dr. Jekkyl, and hide.
Yubajeff :Yinyangv:

Now I'm scared to post on wacco.
Photo