Scumbag Shoplifters@Whole Foods 7 pm Thurs

[BizWrangler]

You didn't know I saw you trying to shoplift at Whole Foods this evening. You were bent over at the grainola bins putting your grubby hands inside to taste the different selections. Then, I watched as the guy scooped up grainola from a number of bins (your favorites after tasting, no doubt) and pour them all into one plastic bag. He didn't mark a tag with the bin number, and have separate bags for each different selection. Then, I realized he had no intention of putting this mixture through the check out counter and paying for it. So I watched even more as he then went over to the nut bins and started dumping large selections of nuts on top of the grainola. The plastic bag was getting full. There is no way you were going to pay for this. You knew full well what you were doing. I watched as he looked around to see if anyone was watching. I was. I told a store clerk. The guy was tall and thin, wearing grubby, baggy sweat pants, hair in a mess tied up in a bun at the base of his neck and wearing a grubby hat. The gal was much shorter with filthy looking dreadlocks all the way down to her butt. A little while later, you quickly left the store.
Food there is expensive enough as it is, and it's scammers like you slugs that only drive the prices higher. I'm glad the store personnel put a stop to your scam. Be advised, people ARE watching and paying attention. Try it again, and I'll make a scene right there in front of everyone and expose your dishonesty. You guys looked like you hadn't taken a bath in weeks, let alone washed your hair. Scum bags. Stay out of there. If ever I see you again, I'll be in your face. Bet on it. <TABLE summary="craigslist hosted images"><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></TD><TD align=middle></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle></TD><TD align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[zenekar]

Whole Foods is a large corporation profiting from small communities. Not long ago there were co-ops in Sonoma County, and the Organic Grocer on Guerneville Road. Seeing the potential of huge profits in natural food, corporations have exploited the market, undermining co-ops and small business'.

Theft is generally not condoned but it's too easy to judge when not knowing the persons' situation. Thieves exist in all types of attire -- most wear neat business suits and rob you blind while you're not watching.

Recall the face of the poorest and most helpless person you have seen and ask yourself if the next step you contemplate is going to be of any use to that person. - Mohandas Gandhi

Attila
---


You didn't know I saw you trying to shoplift at Whole Foods this evening. You were bent over at the grainola bins putting your grubby hands inside to taste the different selections. Then, I watched as the guy scooped up grainola from a number of bins (your favorites after tasting, no doubt) and pour them all into one plastic bag. He didn't mark a tag with the bin number, and have separate bags for each different selection. Then, I realized he had no intention of putting this mixture through the check out counter and paying for it. So I watched even more as he then went over to the nut bins and started dumping large selections of nuts on top of the grainola. The plastic bag was getting full. There is no way you were going to pay for this. You knew full well what you were doing. I watched as he looked around to see if anyone was watching. I was. I told a store clerk. The guy was tall and thin, wearing grubby, baggy sweat pants, hair in a mess tied up in a bun at the base of his neck and wearing a grubby hat. The gal was much shorter with filthy looking dreadlocks all the way down to her butt. A little while later, you quickly left the store.
Food there is expensive enough as it is, and it's scammers like you slugs that only drive the prices higher. I'm glad the store personnel put a stop to your scam. Be advised, people ARE watching and paying attention. Try it again, and I'll make a scene right there in front of everyone and expose your dishonesty. You guys looked like you hadn't taken a bath in weeks, let alone washed your hair. Scum bags. Stay out of there. If ever I see you again, I'll be in your face. Bet on it. <TABLE summary="craigslist hosted images"><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></TD><TD align=middle></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle></TD><TD align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[nurturetruth]

Attila:

thank you for the kind reminder of compassion as well as the reminder that "thieves exist in all sorts of attire."

I too miss the small business co-ops.

I enjoyed the Gandhi quote....

https://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/nurturetruth/758025770_m.jpg

be well




Recall the face of the poorest and most helpless person you have seen and ask yourself if the next step you contemplate is going to be of any use to that person. - Mohandas Gandhi

Attila
---

[quirkypixie]

I would truly like to think that they needed the food,and were not stealing for the fun of it. After all, they were not trying to steal steak and lobster, wearing Prada...........I have seen situations similar to this, and handed the people money, in hopes of them paying. I am by no means rich....but I have alot more then some.

Terri

[ThePhiant]

Mahatma said a day without work is a day without food.
please don't equate being poor with thievery


Attila:

thank you for the kind reminder of compassion as well as the reminder that "thieves exist in all sorts of attire."

I too miss the small business co-ops.

I enjoyed the Gandhi quote....

https://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/nurturetruth/758025770_m.jpg

be well

[nicofrog]

Evil Dooers and Evil seers;
Well,,,,I was ready to agree about the shoplifters part...maybe even
embrace the term "scummbags"
but some how the "filthy looking dreadlocks," grubby this and scammers
and Slugs(which happen to be friends of mine that I like) the animal that is
not the attitude. The "Scam" I believe, is a platform upon which to display your abundant and seemingly volatile hatred.I would invoke my favorite old
shamanic saying
"anything you can think about anybody is DEFINITELY true of YOU, and could possibly be true of them"
However I can't use that one because I would have to include
myself,and my Judgmental feelings about you and your comments regarding those less good than you people. I am biased, because I am a reformed shoplifter myself(Robin Hood Style only).and the reason I DON'T shoplift has nothing to do with your moral standards concerning pricing. As a matter of fact I happily accept a type of welfare,And I dearly HOPE it is taking some of your precious taxes away from TEXAS'S Ugly WARS.You offer to create a "scene"in whole foods is uglier to me than any odd clothing styles I have ever objected to.Even Baggy falling off pants!
I dislike xenophobia , I hope you are not homophobic as well because I am going to say I LOVE you for posting on such a juicy topic.
Did you know that you can compile a bag of whatever you want at Whole Foods,as long as you pay for the weight of the most expensive ingredient in there??You never mentioned observing this guy leaving the store with the goods..
I agree, people should not touch the food without gloves or a plastic bag
over their hand.The Store has a rule against "tasting" without a team member making sure it is done correctly.They are generous with it
and it may add to your dear price. I made the mistake once ,years ago when I was seen as a hippy,and somebody just leaned over politely and said "hey, could you not do that?" I never did since.
I think in your world these people are akin to terrorists in the republican world,you fear they may be strapped with bombs,or uzis and are therefor the enemy, and unapproachable.The guy might have been Looking around for a variety of reasons. grazing is not shoplifting.if you waited till they left the store,you could have pulled off a bust,complete with citizens arrest.Is it safer to rage about it to your own family,or from behind a screen with a
made up name?
Drunk,ugly homeless people have bellys just like you, they feel hunger and pain. Perhaps there could be another way of looking at odd people, I know a lot of people with "dreaded" hair, there is a reason the English
(bless their tyranical souls) made up that name. Most dreads,if not all are kept very clean,and feel real neat, you should go up to some huge Rasta someday and ask him to feel his "locks" ,he'll probably let you and you will be an inch or two closer to the earth.
It was unclear if your post was written to this male,his type in general, or as a story for all to hear?
I could list dozen of ways Whole Foods has of wasting money
if you really have trouble with the cost. I for one am almost broke all the time and I shop a LOT at W.F. cause it's a good store.The Non union team system works for some folks , and not for others.I love the store,they COMPOST. I dislike deceiving corporate entities,which W.F. also is but hey
we ALL want to greenwash these days don't we..
Maybe Ill get a Hybrid...or a
Hummer...hmmmm...hybrid...
Hummer
just cant decide.... Nicolas

[Dixon]

Well, BizWrangler, I don't give a damn how people dress or wear their hair, and I think dreads are kinda sexy, so I can't share your apparent disgust re: those "issues". You sound like a Republican when you complain about such superficialities.

But I do wanna thank you for sounding the alarm re: ripoffs. I know this will sound unenlightened to the more "sensitive" among us, but I fuckin' hate ripoffs. I sounded the alarm on Wacco some time ago re: local pyramid schemes and a so-called "psychic surgeon", and I would also confront anyone I see stealing in a store, loudly, to sound the alarm for people to beware of those who are so inconsiderate and self-centered that they'd rip off their brothers and sisters. I think if we care about each other we stop ripoffs when we see them, even if it's unpleasant.

It's nice that Waccoites are compassionate, and yes Whole Paycheck Foods is a big corporation, and yes poverty is an issue, and yes the fatcats who run the world are much bigger ripoffs than any of us; nevertheless the instances wherein we could reasonably excuse stealing are really rare.

For instance, being poor and hungry is not, contrary to what some of you seem to suggest, an excuse for stealing. Waaaay back in 1972, I spent a summer hanging out on the street in Boulder, in poverty and sometimes hunger. Did I steal? Of course not; it's just not an option because it's WRONG. I found a couple of not-very-pleasant ways to make an honest buck, and I ate out of trashcans as needed.

Many are horrified at the very idea of eating from trashcans. Probably most would steal before they would do so. This reflects not only their self-centeredness, but also the considerable degree to which we've been inculcated with the consumerist mindset that it's shameful to re-use rather than buying something new, and shameful to be poor. Re-use and recycling are honorable, not shameful!

A guy named Michael Gross taught me how to eat from trashcans. He claimed that his father ran the 2nd largest modeling agency in the country, and that he (Michael) had turned down a straight job with his dad's agency to hang out on the street and eat from trashcans. I wonder where he is now.

Many of us think nothing of sharing a soda or a joint with a friend, but eating something touched (or bitten!) by a stranger gives us the willies, as if on some level we're assuming that the stranger's germs would be more dangerous than our friends', LOL!

The act of putting food in the trash doesn't automatically contaminate it; usually it's in a package or wrapped in deli paper. If you examine it and see that it's pretty fresh, not touching anything nasty, unspoiled, and you cut off or avoid where the other person has bitten, there's little danger of catching some disease, and indeed I didn't. The dumpsters behind supermarkets, pizzerias and sub shops were goldmines of fresh foods for those of us who could overcome our consumerist conditioning enough to allow ourselves to break the taboo.

And there's nothing like trashcan dining to give us an appreciation for the obscene amount of perfectly good food that's wasted here in the good ol' USA. I once read that we USAmericans waste about one-fourth of our food.

Sorry about the lengthy treatise on trashcan dining; that's only one of several options. Others (most of which I've tried myself) include:

Picking up some temporary work in exchange for money or food.

Selling or pawning some of one's belongings.

Taking advantage of any of several charities such as the Catholic Workers' Kitchen or the "Salivation" Army (examples of conservative religions doing something good for a change--hallelujah!).

Foraging for mushrooms, nuts, some of the tremendous amount of fruit that rots on various trees and vines each year, or other yummy, nutritious items.

Asking for a loan or a meal from a friend (who you will presumably be willing to help if the tables are ever turned).

Begging.

Twice in my life I've had total strangers knock on my door and ask me to feed them. Of course, both times I invited them in and made them a meal. They didn't have to steal; they just allowed themselves to be humble enough to ask, thus blessing me with the opportunity to do a good deed.

The crucial question here is: Given a choice between, on the one hand, doing something embarrassing or otherwise unpleasant and, on the other hand, violating others by stealing from them, which will you choose? Some of you who are brave enough to answer this question honestly may be blessed with the opportunity to grow by confronting your own self-centeredness. Make the best of it.

And don't let me catch you ripping off any of my sisters and brothers; it wouldn't be pleasant.

Dixon


You didn't know I saw you trying to shoplift at Whole Foods this evening. You were bent over at the grainola bins putting your grubby hands inside to taste the different selections. Then, I watched as the guy scooped up grainola from a number of bins (your favorites after tasting, no doubt) and pour them all into one plastic bag. He didn't mark a tag with the bin number, and have separate bags for each different selection. Then, I realized he had no intention of putting this mixture through the check out counter and paying for it. So I watched even more as he then went over to the nut bins and started dumping large selections of nuts on top of the grainola. The plastic bag was getting full. There is no way you were going to pay for this. You knew full well what you were doing. I watched as he looked around to see if anyone was watching. I was. I told a store clerk. The guy was tall and thin, wearing grubby, baggy sweat pants, hair in a mess tied up in a bun at the base of his neck and wearing a grubby hat. The gal was much shorter with filthy looking dreadlocks all the way down to her butt. A little while later, you quickly left the store.
Food there is expensive enough as it is, and it's scammers like you slugs that only drive the prices higher. I'm glad the store personnel put a stop to your scam. Be advised, people ARE watching and paying attention. Try it again, and I'll make a scene right there in front of everyone and expose your dishonesty. You guys looked like you hadn't taken a bath in weeks, let alone washed your hair. Scum bags. Stay out of there. If ever I see you again, I'll be in your face. Bet on it. <TABLE summary="craigslist hosted images"><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></TD><TD align=middle></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle></TD><TD align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[jay]

Gee, why so mad? It seems to me you could get your point across without so much hatred.

- jay


You didn't know I saw you trying to shoplift at Whole Foods this evening. You were bent over at the grainola bins putting your grubby hands inside to taste the different selections. Then, I watched as the guy scooped up grainola from a number of bins (your favorites after tasting, no doubt) and pour them all into one plastic bag. He didn't mark a tag with the bin number, and have separate bags for each different selection. Then, I realized he had no intention of putting this mixture through the check out counter and paying for it. So I watched even more as he then went over to the nut bins and started dumping large selections of nuts on top of the grainola. The plastic bag was getting full. There is no way you were going to pay for this. You knew full well what you were doing. I watched as he looked around to see if anyone was watching. I was. I told a store clerk. The guy was tall and thin, wearing grubby, baggy sweat pants, hair in a mess tied up in a bun at the base of his neck and wearing a grubby hat. The gal was much shorter with filthy looking dreadlocks all the way down to her butt. A little while later, you quickly left the store.
Food there is expensive enough as it is, and it's scammers like you slugs that only drive the prices higher. I'm glad the store personnel put a stop to your scam. Be advised, people ARE watching and paying attention. Try it again, and I'll make a scene right there in front of everyone and expose your dishonesty. You guys looked like you hadn't taken a bath in weeks, let alone washed your hair. Scum bags. Stay out of there. If ever I see you again, I'll be in your face. Bet on it. <TABLE summary="craigslist hosted images"><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></TD><TD align=middle></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle></TD><TD align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Braggi]

Dixon, thanks for the nice post. I appreciate the comments on trashcan dining. I gained a new respect for the concept (not that I've ever looked down upon it) at the last Harmony Festival. I was a volunteer there for the first time and I was chatting with a young man who also volunteered. He commented that he signed up too late in the game to get any of the meal tickets that would allow him to get free food as part of the payment for his work. I offered him five dollars so he could get something to eat and he cheerfully turned me down, saying he was grateful his job was separating the recyclables from the garbage because he'd have plenty to eat doing that. He thought the Harmony festival was about the best place on Earth to dine from the trash because the food was great and people were usually careful to wrap up their food before putting it in the garbage. I was amazed. This man will never go hungry.

I agree that shoplifting along with every kind of stealing is wrong. In Sebastopol panhandling should gain you enough coins in a short while to buy a bag of food. It's true that stealing from a store is tantamount to stealing from all of the store's customers. I imagine that Whole Foods, corporate or not, does a lot of good in the community, If nothing else, they prove that a business based on organic foods can be viable.

-Jeff

[adriane hatkoff]

Yeah Attila for your wise & compassionate words & quotes!! Thank you so much ~

A couple of weeks ago the same thing occurred & i witnessed it at WF's.
I started to go in that same angry, rightous direction myself...the lower worlds of hell, hunger, anger & animality and even thinking of reporting them to "the corporation"!?

Suddenly i came to my senses and got off my high horse long enough to realize that would not perpetuate anything of "value" to anyone and remembering I had a couple of copies of "The Winning Life," An Introduction to Buddhist Practice, in my vehicle. I went & got two copies to give to the gentlemen and commented to them that we have choices and do not have to stay as victims to this system ~

It's so easy to keep responding to the fundamental darkness that is around us, reacting from those four lowers worlds ~ This only perpetuates more hell (WAR), hunger, anger & animality. It's up to each of us individually, we do have a choice and I find I have to KEEP reminding myself MORE THAN EVER these days and question myself "am I responding of VALUE" to the greater community of peace or am I being reactive and perpetuating that same fundamental darkness.

Thx for listening... Peace, Adriane





Whole Foods is a large corporation profiting from small communities. Not long ago there were co-ops in Sonoma County, and the Organic Grocer on Guerneville Road. Seeing the potential of huge profits in natural food, corporations have exploited the market, undermining co-ops and small business'.

Theft is generally not condoned but it's too easy to judge when not knowing the persons' situation. Thieves exist in all types of attire -- most wear neat business suits and rob you blind while you're not watching.

Recall the face of the poorest and most helpless person you have seen and ask yourself if the next step you contemplate is going to be of any use to that person. - Mohandas Gandhi

Attila
---

[nurturetruth]

I too have witnessed similar situations in Whole Foods as well as Co-ops. Especially in Co-ops...where folks eat or "taste" from different bins with their bare hands. I continued to walk by the person i witnessed doing this and just offered a kind reminder and alternative.

I have also been the observer of someone in a co-op attempting to take an item without paying for it. I offered to pay for the item for the person and the response from this person was feelings of : shame, guilt, embarrassment and also gratitude. Afterwards, we had a good discussion on all the emotions felt along with discussing karma. This person decided that he wanted and envisioned himself being in a position where he could do for another what I had done for him.
ADRIANE H. STATED:

" I have to KEEP reminding myself MORE THAN EVER these days and question myself "am I responding of VALUE" to the greater community of peace or am I being reactive and perpetuating that same fundamental darkness."

THANK YOU for questioning yourself, your choices /intentions and for encouraging me to do the same! :heart:


As per corporations versus Community Member Owned Co-ops:

I DO have mixed feelings regarding corporate Wholy Foods and miss "Food for Thought" or the idea of a co-op being in Sebastopol. However , I have heard that Whole Foods does give good benefits to their employees after only several months.

Yes, Santa Rosa Community Market is nice to have available. Thanks for the reminder, "A team" !! :thumbsup:

However , my choice is to go in the evening,before they close...as to avoid all the traffic in getting there.

I will still hold on to my vision that a "great co-op" will one day exist closer to Sebastopol.

( i have enjoyed co-ops such as Good Earth in Fairfax, the Davis food co-op in Davis, and Briarpatch in Grass Valley-- all of which are not small and scrappy but quite big in size.)


"NicoFrog" & "Braggi and of course "Dixon":

I highly enjoyed your responses to this thread! :thumbsup: :yinyang:

AND THANKS BIZWRANGLER for voicing your feelings, thoughts,opinions and for starting this thread in the first place!! I appreciate your "truth".




:hello:
p.s. folks -a great small co-op and non profit still exists- Santa Rosa Community Market, small but scrappy and competing with the likes of Whole Foods and TJ's

["Mad" Miles]

Whole Foods has crushed every attempt to unionize. "We're a family, why bring something as divisive and disruptive as a union into our 'happy' family?"

The owner successfully got away with sliming their competitor in chat rooms while posing as someone else. And has now bought that rival after driving down their income.

I shop at Fiesta and Community Market (when I'm nearby). Fiesta is locally owned, has everything I could possibly want, and, yes, is woefully overpriced. But so is "Gold Foods".

As for "grubby, dreadlocked, scumbag shoplifters". Sounds kind of classist and judgemental (in the sense of irrational and unquestioned prejudice) to me. Others have ably responded already so I'll leave it at that, except:

Bizwrangler, do you know the etymology / derivation of scumbag? It refers to a discarded, used condom. Now that's some judgment about "man juice" if there ever was!

I'm getting a late start but am off to Progfest. See ya there.

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[Sara S]

Persons appear to us according to the light we throw upon them from our own
minds. -Laura Ingalls Wilder, author (1867-1957)

[patzy]

Whole Foods is a large corporation profiting from small communities. Not long ago there were co-ops in Sonoma County, and the Organic Grocer on Guerneville Road. Seeing the potential of huge profits in natural food, corporations have exploited the market, undermining co-ops and small business'.

Theft is generally not condoned but it's too easy to judge when not knowing the persons' situation. Thieves exist in all types of attire -- most wear neat business suits and rob you blind while you're not watching.

Recall the face of the poorest and most helpless person you have seen and ask yourself if the next step you contemplate is going to be of any use to that person. - Mohandas Gandhi

Attila
---


Well perhaps if the person had been dressed in an expensive suit and doing the same thing, he/she would have been described as a "scum bag" with an expensive hair cut and over-priced suit. The poster was just describing the thieves as seen, to let them know, if they do read, that their description has now been outed. I think in trying to be compassionate we allow others in our attempts to be P.C. to get away with actions they should not be committing regardless.
People are just getting plain fed-up with the lax attitudes towards actions of others and our society is paying dearly for it.

[patzy]

Yeah Attila for your wise & compassionate words & quotes!! Thank you so much ~

A couple of weeks ago the same thing occurred & i witnessed it at WF's.
I started to go in that same angry, rightous direction myself...the lower worlds of hell, hunger, anger & animality and even thinking of reporting them to "the corporation"!?

Suddenly i came to my senses and got off my high horse long enough to realize that would not perpetuate anything of "value" to anyone and remembering I had a couple of copies of "The Winning Life," An Introduction to Buddhist Practice, in my vehicle. I went & got two copies to give to the gentlemen and commented to them that we have choices and do not have to stay as victims to this system ~

It's so easy to keep responding to the fundamental darkness that is around us, reacting from those four lowers worlds ~ This only perpetuates more hell (WAR), hunger, anger & animality. It's up to each of us individually, we do have a choice and I find I have to KEEP reminding myself MORE THAN EVER these days and question myself "am I responding of VALUE" to the greater community of peace or am I being reactive and perpetuating that same fundamental darkness.

Thx for listening... Peace, Adriane

And for the most part in my many, many dealings with folks who seemed in need is those books were probably tossed as soon as you were out of sight. Just like the hot food meals I've handed to men begging at Trader Joe's (they didn't want the food they wanted cash)

Yes there are those out there that are 'truly' down and out, but begging and stealing are a job discriptions nowadays for many. I took the time to talk with one guy (one out of many times so all you new-age,love everyone regardless, won't blast me in long tirades here on Wacco with your self-righteous attitudes that are so prolific in Sonoma County)Every suggestion I made that would have gotten him shelter, food and clothes was turned down, he didn't want help he wanted a hand-out. Somona County has a Human Resource Center and they are happy to give you long lists of places that give out fresh foods, and where you can seek shelter and yes, even volunteers that will help you get to these places.
Yes you have to sign up and sit in 'chairs' for some time, but you get help without resorting to stealing directly from a store or stealing from another by lying. I've resorted to that myself (Human Resources)and there is where I help others by helping them fill out the forms and comiserating with them on how tough things are but how fortunate that there is some governent help (and hopefully more with the new Administration coming in) and folks, if they've brought snacks usually are happy to share. More than a few times I've given rides to those that had a long hike back home. Help is out there without resorting to stealing and quoting Ghandi/Jesus never filled one belly. Realistic actions folks.

[babaruss]

Help is out there without resorting to stealing and quoting Ghandi/Jesus never filled one belly. Realistic actions folks.

When I was living in the streets many years ago... the one place where I refused to accept help was 'gospel' Missions.
The very idea of preaching to people (for their meal and a cot) galled me no end.
No matter how cold it was outside, or how loud my belly rumbled, I was not stooping to that level of degradation.

Stealing food was o.k. with me...begging, for some obscure reason was not o.k. !
We all have our own strange quirks about what is acceptable for us as a way of survival, and what is not.

When survival is the main focus of one's being ...social niceties (laws etc) are not likely to be part of a hungry persons world view.

Self righteous indignation is very telling.
Outrage is very telling.
It tells on us...it exposes our rigidity, our own narrow world view.
It tells on our lack of understanding, lack of compassion.
Yes..lack of compassion.

I can easily feel compassion for someone who feels it necessary to steal.
That poor bastard is pitifully limited in more ways than I have time to write.

I have more than enough food in this little cabin...enough to share with neighbors, and friends, when they come across hard times. I buy very little of it..I am really quite resourceful where it comes to gathering food.

I cannot afford shopping Sebastopol merchants period...never could (not since pre 1975, or so when the population went from farm, and blue collar workers, to artists, young profesional people, cutesy shops, and politically correct crap galore.
No one's fault...times change, cities change. hell...people change.

Awareness comes to us all slowly...perhaps the assumed thieves were simply being unaware. Aren't we all unaware in some facet of our lives ?
People who are not aware of what they do...can do the damnedest things and justify it as being a necessity.

Time and experience bring many things to light.

Gibran said something to the effect that: 'when one is truly hungry he will seek food in dark caves.... When one is truly thirsty he will drink from dead water.'
In an attempt to get our supposed 'good' we many times are blind to the greater good.

A person steals until that person recognizes there is no need to steal.
If someone is slow to learn, I can undestand this.

All of my life has been an ongoing pattern of learning and unlearning all manner of things. What seemed right one year was unacceptable the following years.
New information, new understanding, new way of responding to the same old situation !
Unlearning the need to steal can be (for some) as difficult as unlearning the need to judge is for others.

We have to awaken to what we are doing before we can unlearn a behavior...a pattern.
Pity those who go through life asleep...it's easier on the heart to pity a lost soul than is hurling self righteous stones....stones which often times return to wound the thrower.

I know how to feed myself today....as well as feed the homeless people who stay with me from time to time.
Some have stolen from me.... several have left owing me money...so what.

If I bring a recoverying addict to my home to get his or her life back on track I had better be aware of what addicts are all about, or not do that sort of thing at all.
Hell from time to time I even expect to get ripped off.
It's just part of what happens when dealing with other human beings.

Understanding human behavior does not equate with condoning wrongful behavior.
I'd just rather not watch someone add to his or her karmic load on my dime.

I try to know what it is I am about today.
I need keep myself on task....the task of learning to be the best person I know how to be because that's what I want for me from me today.
That's my idea of best person possible...not anyone elses..after all it is my path !

I've been trudging some long dusty roads for a very long time now.
I see how life changes people, and how people change lives.

I have more than enough work dealing with my own slow growth without becoming side tracked by sitting in judgement on my fellow travelers
Russ

[patzy]

I can't afford many of the stores anywhere in Sonoma county either, especially since the vineyards came in and everyone started catering to the wealthy and raising local prices.

I do my best to reach out to others and help them, but I will not continue to feed the mouth that bites me. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." And to the one poster who said "do like we do in New York and "draw in on yourself." How many heinous crimes have been committed in the light of day and New Yorkers have walked on by (yes I am aware it happens elsewhere, but that just makes my point and other's, all the stronger)?
I've watched the human community slide down a slippery slope, permissive parents that cater to their offspring to the point that they expect the world owes them everything and treat others in public very rudely and at time roughly. I will not condone that nor will I put up with it.

To turn inwards concerned for your "karma" isn't going to help the world at all.

And sigh, again there is the 'new age' speak used , your choice, but hearing it daily is :thanks:like having to listen to folks like being in some bible thumping church, everyone expects you to believe like they do. To be too airy fairy and go through life that way will only get you and others walked over.

I will give addicts rides from point A to B but I will not set myself up as a patsy (pun unintended) for them to use and abuse. Would not it be better to make them learn there are limits and to continue their ways will not gain them anything? If we keep coddling such folks they will be quite content to continue in their lifestyle. I have sat through too many classes observing them to think any different.

Everyone is assuming the guy stealing at WFs is down and out. :beg: Many of these folks have chosen the lifestyle and live grunge, I've seen them in Cotati playing their poor me game, get what they need from one person and then move onto the next and play it again. And I've seen the same group of 'kids' hanging out at WF to play that game. They believe they have found an easy source, so why not stay and take it for all they can, without regard for others that frequent the place. Many members of our community come there to sit visit and have a little meal as a treat. I see the seniors at Raley's doing the same to brighten their days. No one has the right to ruin that for them.

Sorry will not be part of that. I'm not worried about karma nor some spirit guide etc that I hear so much/too much, increasingly. Folks have gone way off the path of common sense and again I won't be part of closing my eyes and trying to chant it away...(doesn't work does it?)

I'm glad the WF thread went to this direction, it has folks thinking about how lenient we have become and if we continue in this direction our communities won't be worth living in.

The few cannot be allowed to dictate to the many.:kneel:

Patsy.

[wildflower]

"Some rob you with a six gun and some with a fountain pen."
Bob Dylan(?)

[patzy]

that they do. Liars and thieves come in all shapes, sizes, colors, economic status, social status etc. All the more important to disallow any of them a foot in the door.

["Mad" Miles]

"Some rob you with a six gun and some with a fountain pen."
Bob Dylan(?)

Wildflower,

Woody Guthrie, from "The Ballad of Pretty Boy Floyd" (? I think, but am not absolutely sure, the song that is, not the author, definitely Woody wrote it before Bob, Bob was singing Woody's song.)

Let's hear it for Google: https://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/w/woody_guthrie/pretty_boy_floyd.html

Check out the second to the last verse. Woody's work becomes more and more apropos as the economic news rolls in....

"Mad" Miles

:burngrnbounce:

[babaruss]

Woody Guthrie, from "The Ballad of Pretty Boy Floyd" (? I think, but am not absolutely sure, the song that is, not the author, definitely Woody wrote it before Bob, Bob was singing Woody's song.)


Yep written by Woody Guthrie ..later sung by Cisco Houston, and again later still by Bob Dylan
Russ..in this instance the 'times are not a changin'...the robbery continues unabated.

[BizWrangler]

I am the original poster of this thread which I wrote quite some time ago.

The responses I read stunned me. Ok, so I'm clearly not articulate to get my point accross because I still find it incredibly hard to believe how many people actually condoned this behavior and were judging me for judging the people I described. I could only shake my head in amazement.

What upset me the most about what this couple were doing was the unsanitary act of putting their bare hands in the grainola bins, putting them then up to their mouths, eating, then reaching into other bins. I could care less if any of you think I'm being judgmental at disapproving this behavior! I still find it completely and totally unacceptable.

I know people, dear friends, who suffer from compromised immune systems and other ailments. The LAST thing they need is to ingest food that may be contaminated. Don't any of you have an issue with that? Well, I most certainly do, and I also don't want to be buying and eating (especially high priced) food where people have done this. I simple cannot comprehend your tolerating such disrespect - these people certainly showed no respect for their fellow man - and I'm not supposed to find fault with this behavior? Pulllleassseeeeee.

I described what they looked like, most certainly, for there are other shopkeepers who should watch out for them should they come into their store and also shoplift. There is no excuse for stealing food here in the bounty of Sonoma County. Go to County Human Services and get food stamps and go to the food banks.

No, I don't buy into any of you thinking I lack compassion or any other mucky muck excuse for this behavior. I don't care if it's Community Market, Whole Foods, The Salvation Army or Nieman Marcus - thou shall not steal. I'm sure other business owners would want to know to keep an eye out to prevent theft. If people steal from one place, they may find no reason why not to steal from another.

I'm willing to bet the people who responded who made excuses for theft have never owned a store, had a business and had to try to make a profit to be able to pay their employees, the bills, taxes, insurance, and have something left over. Shoplifting is unacceptable, and call me judgmental, I don't care, honestly. I'm also not ashamed of myself and don't buy into the finger pointing I received for not being PC or altruistic. No shame here, no guilt, either.

Scumbags is a bad term, which is exactly why I used it. If a friend of mine gets sick from contaminated food because of inconsiderate, selfish people who behave so disrespectfully of their fellow man, well, I may look for an even worse word to use next time. After all, there are people with a precious hold on life with their medical issues, and they need to eat pure, healthy, non contaminated food to survive. It's literally a matter of life and death for some.

Why couldn't these shoplifters simply have used the scoops? I don't buy your excuses folks. Also, I don't have anything against dreadlocks or dressing scruffy. I had my day dressing 'alternatively', clothes are simply a costume, and like Patzy said, they could have been clean shaven and in fancy clothes. Regardless, their behavior was out of line because it was impacting not just the store, but all the rest of us who shop there who might be the next unsuspecting person to scoop from those grainola bins. I should be able to trust the food in them has not been contaminated thusly.








Yep written by Woody Guthrie ..later sung by Cisco Houston, and again later still by Bob Dylan
Russ..in this instance the 'times are not a changin'...the robbery continues unabated.

[quirkypixie]

Why couldn't these shoplifters simply have used the scoops? I don't buy your excuses folks. Also, I don't have anything against dreadlocks or dressing scruffy. I had my day dressing 'alternatively', clothes are simply a costume, and like Patzy said, they could have been clean shaven and in fancy clothes. Regardless, their behavior was out of line because it was impacting not just the store, but all the rest of us who shop there who might be the next unsuspecting person to scoop from those grainola bins. I should be able to trust the food in them has not been contaminated thusly.


I understand your concern. However those who don't speak up have no right to complain about the outcome. You stood there, watched, and did nothing.

Next time, maybe kindly ask them to use the scoop? Then possibly notify whole foods that someone had their hand in the bin? There really are better ways to go about this.

[BizWrangler]

I DID do something about it at the time. I found the nearest clerk and brought it to her attention. I didn't feel it was my position to confront them.

I also posted here in the event other shopkeepers saw them in their stores.




I understand your concern. However those who don't speak up have no right to complain about the outcome. You stood there, watched, and did nothing.

Next time, maybe kindly ask them to use the scoop? Then possibly notify whole foods that someone had their hand in the bin? There really are better ways to go about this.

[BizWrangler]

I take issue with your comment, " You stood there, watched, and did nothing."

If you read my post again, you will see in the center of the post that I said, "I told a clerk".






I understand your concern. However those who don't speak up have no right to complain about the outcome. You stood there, watched, and did nothing.

Next time, maybe kindly ask them to use the scoop? Then possibly notify whole foods that someone had their hand in the bin? There really are better ways to go about this.

[quirkypixie]

. I didn't feel it was my position to confront them.



This is one of the problems with today's society. Sadly too many people see things happening, and feel the same way.

I would like to think that as a small community we can all look out for each other. I just feel that getting on a soapbox and calling names, is not the way to deal with it.

I stand corrected in regards to my previous comment (this is a very old post.....I should have re-read it)

[Dixon]

I just feel that getting on a soapbox and calling names, is not the way to deal with it.

You yourself aren't on a soapbox when you post your comments, quirkypixie? I'd say any of us who post are on a virtual soapbox. But of course, you meant it to carry a more negative connotation when you characterized BizWrangler as being "on a soapbox".

Re: your "calling names" remark, aren't you sorta calling names when you characterize BizWrangler as being "...on a soapbox and calling names..."? That needlessly negative way of characterizing his comments strikes me as a kinda covert, passive-aggressive way of calling him names (a soapboxer and name-caller). Granted his name-calling was more explicit than yours, but I'd argue that being called a scumbag is a natural consequence of stealing.

Soapboxin' Dixon

[photolite]

A member of this community witnessed what appeared to be a shoplifting. She informed the victim at the time of the act and then took steps to inform the community at large to exercise future vigilance for the perpetrators. The event elicited an emotional response from her, some of which was expressed by certain characterizations in the post. BizWrangler believed that she had fulfilled her social contract to the community at large by these public declarations. What has been the result?
Certain people have seized on her characterizations of the perpetrators to malign her character. Others have self indulged to justify their own past behaviors and indiscretions. Still others have seized the opportunity to advance a personal agenda against the victim. Many have managed to make this event all about themselves and what they believe to be their superior believe system or personal philosophy. A few have expressed gratitude to BizWrangler for the "heads up".
I believe we would all like to think that as a small community we can look out for each other but I suspect that BizWrangler may think twice before she sounds the alarm again here.
Photo





This is one of the problems with today's society. Sadly too many people see things happening, and feel the same way.

I would like to think that as a small community we can all look out for each other. I just feel that getting on a soapbox and calling names, is not the way to deal with it.

I stand corrected in regards to my previous comment (this is a very old post.....I should have re-read it)

[BizWrangler]

You need to read my original post yet again. Nowhere in there are any names provided. Of course I got on this 'soapbox'. Public shaming has been a natural way for humans to provide some form of accountabilty when we don't do so to ourselves. We don't put people in stocks in the public square, or mark their foreheads with a red X, however, without some accountability there are those who will take things as far as they can. I thought I handled it fine by informing the clerk and letting the store handle it. I'm not their employee. I'm sure they have their own policies in place, and would prefer to do so anyway rather than their customer taking matters into their own hands.

You are taking issue of me going public and stating what I saw. Lots of people go public online here in Wacco and other places with things they see and don't like, too. Maybe the people to are being 'outed' will feel less inclined in the future knowing there could be consequences - and one consequence is public awareness. Didn't people post here about the theives who broke into their home and stole jewelery and so forth? Their descriptions were posted, where they were seen, etc around town. I personally don't see the difference.


This is one of the problems with today's society. Sadly too many people see things happening, and feel the same way.

I would like to think that as a small community we can all look out for each other. I just feel that getting on a soapbox and calling names, is not the way to deal with it.

I stand corrected in regards to my previous comment (this is a very old post.....I should have re-read it)

[patzy]

This is 'my' opinion so don't snarl at BizWrangler. I take from reading the posts that Biz Wrangler is the kind that will not back down from reporting wrong-doings to the community at large. What's a few crabby posts?

Thanks BizWrangler for alerting us and don't think you are alone in keeping a vigilant eye out where ever we may be.

(Tossing P.C. to the wind..right is right, wrong is wrong):thumbsup:

Patsy

[babaruss]

A member of this community witnessed what appeared to be a shoplifting. She informed the victim at the time of the act and then took steps to inform the community at large to exercise future vigilance for the perpetrators. The event elicited an emotional response from her, some of which was expressed by certain characterizations in the post. BizWrangler believed that she had fulfilled her social contract to the community at large by these public declarations. What has been the result?
Certain people have seized on her characterizations of the perpetrators to malign her character. Others have self indulged to justify their own past behaviors and indiscretions. Still others have seized the opportunity to advance a personal agenda against the victim. Many have managed to make this event all about themselves and what they believe to be their superior believe system or personal philosophy. A few have expressed gratitude to BizWrangler for the "heads up".
I believe we would all like to think that as a small community we can look out for each other but I suspect that BizWrangler may think twice before she sounds the alarm again here.
Photo


Please reread Bizwrangler's original post which follows my comments here, and show me a 'simple warning message to the community' about thieves. This post ( at least to me) appeared to be a hateful..ugly...post attacking the way two people dressed, and looked.
Suspicions unfounded are not facts.
There is no proof offered that these people were thieves.
There is the possibility that they live and dress in a manner unacceptable to Bizwrangler.
The most I can find that actually happened was that someone stuck her hand inside various food bins in lieu of using a scoop...not the nicest thing to do, and put all her various choices into one plastic bag.
Putting her hands in the bins was not the smartest thing to do, but hardly a criminal act.
Nowhere did I see where Bizwrangler actually witnessed the person in question actually stuffing the plastic bag of food in his pants.

Nor was there any report of the clerk responding to the matter in any way, which leaves me to wonder why ?

I certainly have not 'maligned anyone's character here, but it appears Bizwrangler just may have.
Russ




You didn't know I saw you trying to shoplift at Whole Foods this evening. You were bent over at the grainola bins putting your grubby hands inside to taste the different selections. Then, I watched as the guy scooped up grainola from a number of bins (your favorites after tasting, no doubt) and pour them all into one plastic bag. He didn't mark a tag with the bin number, and have separate bags for each different selection. Then, I realized he had no intention of putting this mixture through the check out counter and paying for it. So I watched even more as he then went over to the nut bins and started dumping large selections of nuts on top of the grainola. The plastic bag was getting full. There is no way you were going to pay for this. You knew full well what you were doing. I watched as he looked around to see if anyone was watching. I was. I told a store clerk. The guy was tall and thin, wearing grubby, baggy sweat pants, hair in a mess tied up in a bun at the base of his neck and wearing a grubby hat. The gal was much shorter with filthy looking dreadlocks all the way down to her butt. A little while later, you quickly left the store.
Food there is expensive enough as it is, and it's scammers like you slugs that only drive the prices higher. I'm glad the store personnel put a stop to your scam. Be advised, people ARE watching and paying attention. Try it again, and I'll make a scene right there in front of everyone and expose your dishonesty. You guys looked like you hadn't taken a bath in weeks, let alone washed your hair. Scum bags. Stay out of there. If ever I see you again, I'll be in your face. Bet on it.<table summary="craigslist hosted images"><tbody><tr><td align="middle"></td><td align="middle"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"></td><td align="middle"></td></tr></tbody></table>

[nurturetruth]

Babaruss ~ In this post, you "appear" to communicate ur "observations" or "what appears to be" in ur perception very well and without any projections, judgment , blame or name calling from what i can tell.

quite impressive in the world we live in today! and quite the relief.
Thank u!! :heart:

and you ask a good question regarding if the W.Foods clerk responded and why was this not reported or mentioned. I would love to hear how the clerk responded or handled this incident.

I would also like to hear more about your observations , BizWrangler, and what supported your belief/imaginings that these people were indeed shoplifting. Did u actually see them not pay or try and conceal the big bag?

* By the way, to our community - regardless of who u are or what you look like, smell like ,color u are, clothes u wear, how frequent or unfrequent you wash your hair, or how much money you do or do not have...............

Sebastopol Whole Foods is currently having a Raffle to win a FREE bag of groceries! (unclear if this is just local or in all areas/stores)

All that is needed is to buy any whole foods "365" item in order to be able to get a raffle ticket. (can of tuna is on sale for only $1.39!)

I was told they pick 5 winners a week until Christmas! :xmastree:

I was also told a story by an employee of a guy that recently came in and specifically bought 10 "365" items in order to get 10 raffle tickets and then proceeded to fill in the names/phone numbers of people he knew who could benefit. Warmed my heart.

P.s... wash all ur vegetables before eating them when buying them in markets. you never know "who" or what type of people may have touched that tomatoe or yam and put it back without a glove on . We don't even know what type of bug, insect or fly may have landed on it.





Please reread Bizwrangler's original post which follows my comments here, and show me a 'simple warning message to the community' about thieves. This post ( at least to me) appeared to be a hateful..ugly...post attacking the way two people dressed, and looked.
Suspicions unfounded are not facts.
There is no proof offered that these people were thieves.
There is the possibility that they live and dress in a manner unacceptable to Bizwrangler.
The most I can find that actually happened was that someone stuck her hand inside various food bins in lieu of using a scoop...not the nicest thing to do, and put all her various choices into one plastic bag.
Putting her hands in the bins was not the smartest thing to do, but hardly a criminal act.
Nowhere did I see where Bizwrangler actually witnessed the person in question actually stuffing the plastic bag of food in his pants.

Nor was there any report of the clerk responding to the matter in any way, which leaves me to wonder why ?

I certainly have not 'maligned anyone's character here, but it appears Bizwrangler just may have.
Russ
<table summary="craigslist hosted images"><tbody><tr><td align="middle"></td><td align="middle"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"></td><td align="middle"></td></tr></tbody></table>

[Dixon]

I can't seem to shake this nagging feeling I have, that those who are making excuses for shoplifters are doing so because they feel defensive, because they themselves have a history of shoplifting, and perhaps even still do it. I'd like very much to hear from all you posters about your own shoplifting past (and present?). I'll bet a disproportionate number of those who attack BizWrangler for being harsh toward shoplifters are shoplifters themselves.

I'll start with my confession: When I was about 7 years old, I stole a piece of penny candy (yes they had penny candy back then!) from Mollett's Market in Galesburg, Michigan. My conscience bothered me so much that I went back a year or two later and paid them the penny! They didn't know what to make of it, LOL!

That was my first and last time shoplifting, 50 years ago.

Okay, who's next to confess about their shoplifting? And remember, shoplifting includes "snacking" or "tasting" from the bins. The confessional is open...

Pope Dixon

[Hot Compost]

Well, BizWrangler, I don't give a damn how people dress or wear their hair, and I think dreads are kinda sexy, so I can't share your apparent disgust re: those "issues". You sound like a Republican when you complain about such superficialities.

I guess fake dreadlocks are just not the same

https://images.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fake%20dreadlocks%20wig

I think it's a "situation situation". It sounds like the original poster did the right thing, for them, in that situation, on that day.

Speaking of confessionals, a few times I have not paid for items that the checker didn't ring up, at large corporate grocery stores. However, in the case where I knew the checker as a "regular", I would say, "hey, you forgot such & such".

A few times, I have also had $10 or $20 mistakes made in my favor, and I pointed out the mistake. That's a great way to build trust.

Although, now that I have confessed to the occasional stealth shoplifting, it seems odd to speak of trust.

I think the possible need of the WF shop-lifters relates to the American corporate society model. It's possible that the dreadlocked shoplifters don't fit into that scenario, and they have to eat.

"If I was President" - I'd give them 40 acres & a mule. You can do a lot with 40 acres and a mule.

The problem is 40 acres in Sonoma County is SOO expensive ! I'd like to find a 1/2 acre to 20 acres in the West County.

[patzy]

I can't seem to shake this nagging feeling I have, that those who are making excuses for shoplifters are doing so because they feel defensive, because they themselves have a history of shoplifting, and perhaps even still do it. I'd like very much to hear from all you posters about your own shoplifting past (and present?). I'll bet a disproportionate number of those who attack BizWrangler for being harsh toward shoplifters are shoplifters themselves.

I'll start with my confession: When I was about 7 years old, I stole a piece of penny candy (yes they had penny candy back then!) from Mollett's Market in Galesburg, Michigan. My conscience bothered me so much that I went back a year or two later and paid them the penny! They didn't know what to make of it, LOL!

That was my first and last time shoplifting, 50 years ago.

Okay, who's next to confess about their shoplifting? And remember, shoplifting includes "snacking" or "tasting" from the bins. The confessional is open...

Pope Dixon

Dixon,

Good for you! :) We all got to view you going to the confessional. I think you are opening a can of worms here and this thread is going to run on ad nauseum. Isn't it time to let it rest?

You 'assumed' 'dreadlocks' "needed the food" Mayhaps he just steals as his way of getting by for lack of wanting to work. As was said by more than one of us. Human Resources would help him out and there are many, many Food Banks in the area. I've seen him and his cohorts at WFs whooping it up out front at the tables where others are 'trying' to enjoy their meal and a moment in the sun.

Some go back to being P.C. and crying over the poor thief. I've gone hungry in my day, but availed myself of Human Resources and Food Banks.

STOP making excuses for the thief! :hello:

I'm blocking out all WF posts from now on, this has turned the corner of ridiculous.
If folks want to crow about their good deeds etc start a blog elsewhere on the 'net. I'm tired of people thinking that because they "allow" others to steal from them that that somehow raises them up to the level of their 'gurus' that they seemingly worship.
Karma sharma! Dreadlocks karma is that he was reported and I hope his A$$ has been kicked out of WF for good, or that folks continue to report him until finally the police are called and he learns a hard, hard lesson. Oh golly aren't I just full of rage (is that "telling'?) ENOUGH! Now go have a pleasant week and just let the thread goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.:):

[babaruss]

I can't seem to shake this nagging feeling I have, that those who are making excuses for shoplifters are doing so because they feel defensive, because they themselves have a history of shoplifting, and perhaps even still do it.............Pope Dixon


I'm not willing to join in or your request to confess my sins.
Though I must admit it may be my one and only chance to avail myself of forgiveness for my many failings from a Pope.

Making excuses for another's failings was never my intention.
Expressing an understanding (possibly mine alone) of why people do what they do, and reiterating that some people do get 'stuck' ...was my intention.
I believe as I have no doubt said before....we do what we do until we wake up to what we are doing and then change.

This is supposed to be a commumity...I have never participated in any community before where all were in absolute agreement with each other....with perhaps the singular exception (of agreement) was that everyone in the community has a purpose and a value regardless of who they are.
Instead of asking: 'how do we get rid of these odd ones' the question might better be: 'how do we include/accept into our midst these people (with all their disruptive ways of being)'.

Opposing views are wonderful for personal growth albeit frustrating for those of us who may prefer our way of thinking and acting, to that of others.

I accept that everyone has a right (privilege) to be expressing their own views .
I do not feel I have to agree with anyone one in order to be part of a community.

Community is composed of all manner of beings...the brilliant and the dull,
kind and the unkind, accepting and judgemental...and all the variants between. The list could go on forever.

The trick for me is not to get too rattled when someone vehemently disagrees with me, or questions where I'm coming from in a manner which seems more attack than question.
I have a difficult time with that .....maybe here is a good place toss in; this community also has senstitive, and insensitive members).

I lose my perspective when I get emotionally caught up in any issue.
When this happens, I see everyone as an enemy conspiring against me.
Bad place for a person like me who professes a desire to understand and embrace all beings as worthwhile and as having their rightful place among us.

I constantly have to remind myself that despite our disagreements we are all in this together.
Be it here at WaccBB, in the area in which we live, or the world at large.

I've chnaged my mind ...forgive my Your Eminence...I have droned on too long and have no doubt strayed from the subject at hand.
Russ

[BizWrangler]

This is going to be my last post on this subject to clarify a couple of things which were brought up by others.

I can see why some people took issue with me using the terms "grubby" and "scumbag". Grubby to me meant dirty. These people WERE dirty - dirt under fingernails, on clothes, in unwashed hair, and they had their hands in our food. That turned my stomach - a LOT - and I wrote when I was really ticked off after just having witnessed this event. I probably could have used another word besides scumbag, however it pretty much summed up my revulsion at their lack of respect for others by having their hands in the bins and then putting them to mouths and returning to bins. Regardless, I wrote what I witnessed, and being dirty was a fact, not a judgment.

Next, as I said before, I don't take issue with dreadlocks and wearing funky clothes. I described them as they were. Listen up folks, I lived in the Haight Ashbury in the 60s, hitched to SF from Seattle, wore clothes and my hair in ways that really offended a lot of people, especially my Mom, and did the whole alternative lifestyle during a time when it was not at all 'normal' or accepted. Been there, done that, appreciate the freedom of choice, and I do not have any issue with dreadlocks and grubby clothes. I DO have an issue with dirty/sanitation in a food store. I also described them as they were for identity purposes for others to be on the lookout. In addition, hopefully, these two people would read wacco and realize they were being observed and 'outed'. Hopefully, they would stop their behavior, and realize there were others out there who were on the lookout.

Now, as for whether or not they actually shoplifted? When I watched them load up their plastic bag, adding expensive large nuts on top of grainola, I wondered if in fact they were planning to shoplift that. I didn't confront them as I didn't know, and I certainly had no proof of their intentions. This is why I brought it to the clerk's attention. I figured they had procedures for monitoring suspicious behavior, and would handle it themselves. I thought it would be better for an employee to advise them not to put their hands in the food bins.

I did in fact watch them go through the checkout. That large bag of grainola/nuts etc was no where to be seen. It did not go through checkout. Either the store intercepted them and took it away - or they did in fact hide it and got through without paying. I just now realized there is also the possibility they were caught and the items were then split into separate bags by the store personnel so they would have to pay for them individually at the appropriate price per item. If that were true, again, the shoppers intentions may not have been to pay for them in the first place, and the store intercepted and made them pay. Or, the store intercepted and took away the bag as they may not have even had the money to pay. In all honesty, I did not look at the other things they were checking through as I was only looking to see if they checked through the one large bag, and they did NOT.

Should I have minded my own business? Should I not have posted here to let them know they were being observed? Should I have changed my wording so not to offend anyone? I will say that after reading comments from people here after I posted in defense of these people, I just felt nausea in my stomach that there were actually people in our community who would defend this behavior and attack me. I found THAT judgmental against me. I wasn't doing the 'deed', I reported what I saw. In this day and age, we all have to watch what we do lest we be caught on someone's camera phone or email get forwarded to the wrong person.

When I was very young in Seattle, I did lift a candy bar from the corner drug store, and my Mom marched me back up there and made me pay for it out of my little piggy bank. I was so humiliated, and never did so again. I joined Brownies then 'flew up' into Girl Scouts and was in scouting for 10 years through my Senior year in high school. I came from an upbringing of service, honesty, integrity, on my honor, to do my duty, etc....so it's just my base line for how I am comfortable living.

One of the hats I wear in my work is to prevent fraud. Maybe I should just mind my own business from now on when I'm 'off duty'. I don't fit into this permissive west county environment, I guess. It has nothing to do with which political affiliation I may or may not have, but everything to do with honesty, integrity, and consideration for others.

I am now done with this topic.



I'm not willing to join in or your request to confess my sins.
Though I must admit it may be my one and only chance to avail myself of forgiveness for my many failings from a Pope.

Making excuses for another's failings was never my intention.
Expressing an understanding (possibly mine alone) of why people do what they do, and reiterating that some people do get 'stuck' ...was my intention.
I believe as I have no doubt said before....we do what we do until we wake up to what we are doing and then change.

This is supposed to be a commumity...I have never participated in any community before where all were in absolute agreement with each other....with perhaps the singular exception (of agreement) was that everyone in the community has a purpose and a value regardless of who they are.
Instead of asking: 'how do we get rid of these odd ones' the question might better be: 'how do we include/accept into our midst these people (with all their disruptive ways of being)'.

Opposing views are wonderful for personal growth albeit frustrating for those of us who may prefer our way of thinking and acting, to that of others.

I accept that everyone has a right (privilege) to be expressing their own views .
I do not feel I have to agree with anyone one in order to be part of a community.

Community is composed of all manner of beings...the brilliant and the dull,
kind and the unkind, accepting and judgemental...and all the variants between. The list could go on forever.

The trick for me is not to get too rattled when someone vehemently disagrees with me, or questions where I'm coming from in a manner which seems more attack than question.
I have a difficult time with that .....maybe here is a good place toss in; this community also has senstitive, and insensitive members).

I lose my perspective when I get emotionally caught up in any issue.
When this happens, I see everyone as an enemy conspiring against me.
Bad place for a person like me who professes a desire to understand and embrace all beings as worthwhile and as having their rightful place among us.

I constantly have to remind myself that despite our disagreements we are all in this together.
Be it here at WaccBB, in the area in which we live, or the world at large.

I've chnaged my mind ...forgive my Your Eminence...I have droned on too long and have no doubt strayed from the subject at hand.
Russ

[Dixon]

Dixon,...You 'assumed' 'dreadlocks' "needed the food"...

No I didn't! I'm not one of those who rationalized stealing. My position is essentially the same as yours. Read my post #7 on this thread and your confusion will vanish.


STOP making excuses for the thief! :hello:I didn't. I took the same position as you. Sheeesh! Please try to read people's posts carefully before you harangue them on the basis of a misunderstanding of their position.

Dixon

[Dixon]

...forgive me Your Eminence...

Say ten Hail Dixons and kiss my ring, and thou shalt be forgiven, my son.

Yours in Dixon;
Dixon

[babaruss]

Say ten Hail Dixons and kiss my ring, and thou shalt be forgiven, my son.

Yours in Dixon;
Dixon

Oh miracle of miracles, oh joyous of joys, oh thank you most blessed
of the blessed.
May you live long, may your robes forever flow, and may your red
slippers shine (never catching the attention of the wicked witch).
Russ...humbled beyond what mere words might express.

[Dandelion]

Wow, those are harsh words.
May you never be so hungry or desperate as to find yourself walking in scumbag shoes.
There but for the Grace of God go us All.
When you get in their faces, I hope that you will offer some charity.


You didn't know I saw you trying to shoplift at Whole Foods this evening. You were bent over at the grainola bins putting your grubby hands inside to taste the different selections. Then, I watched as the guy scooped up grainola from a number of bins (your favorites after tasting, no doubt) and pour them all into one plastic bag. He didn't mark a tag with the bin number, and have separate bags for each different selection. Then, I realized he had no intention of putting this mixture through the check out counter and paying for it. So I watched even more as he then went over to the nut bins and started dumping large selections of nuts on top of the grainola. The plastic bag was getting full. There is no way you were going to pay for this. You knew full well what you were doing. I watched as he looked around to see if anyone was watching. I was. I told a store clerk. The guy was tall and thin, wearing grubby, baggy sweat pants, hair in a mess tied up in a bun at the base of his neck and wearing a grubby hat. The gal was much shorter with filthy looking dreadlocks all the way down to her butt. A little while later, you quickly left the store.
Food there is expensive enough as it is, and it's scammers like you slugs that only drive the prices higher. I'm glad the store personnel put a stop to your scam. Be advised, people ARE watching and paying attention. Try it again, and I'll make a scene right there in front of everyone and expose your dishonesty. You guys looked like you hadn't taken a bath in weeks, let alone washed your hair. Scum bags. Stay out of there. If ever I see you again, I'll be in your face. Bet on it. <table summary="craigslist hosted images"><tbody><tr><td align="middle"></td><td align="middle"></td></tr><tr><td align="middle"></td><td align="middle"></td></tr></tbody></table>

[patzy]

Ohhhh I said I wouldn't, and I hadn't continued to follow this thread (that is wearing verrrrrry thin!) and then my daily digest came in.....

I suggest you go back to the start of this thread and read every reply and explanation before going holier than thou on BizWrangler.

Just assuming the dear person caught with their hands in the food bins at WF is a 'lost soul' needing to be coddled is way off base and again is reflecting the P.C. attitude which pervades today's society. It wasn't like this person was taking a handful and making a meal out of it, he was rifling through the bins mixing all the differing priced items into one large bag, with no concern for sanitation or the fact the store would have one heck of a time trying to charge (IF he even went with the bag through the register check-out) such a mixed bag. For all intents and purposes this person was not intending on paying. He was not confronted by a member of the public. His actions were reported to the store staff for them to handle. He was later seen without the bag. AGAIN. We have Human Resources and Food Banks aplenty in the Sonoma county and no one is above saying "sure" when politely asked if someone could possibly spare enough to buy them something to eat. I've stopped giving money to folks and will offer to buy them food or a drink. I am not going to support someone that decides to steal by either lying with no intent of using the money for purchase of food nor having to pay for it in the long run when they use WF as a base to steal from. Their shoplifting is paid for by the public. 'Nuff said.

[MsTerry]

Since you don't have a problem with buying food for them
I will offer to buy them food or a drink.
why do you have a problem with them getting what they like to eat, since you pay for it either way?

Their shoplifting is paid for by the public.

[babaruss]

Since you don't have a problem with buying food for them
why do you have a problem with them getting what they like to eat, since you pay for it either way?

Mz Terry you are a wonderfully wicked, wicked, person !!
After going over this whole mess...post by post, I've learned a few interesting things.
Few of us were willing to change our absurdly concrete, and often emotional, positions on a situation which none of us witnessed, and only heard about through one person's post.
And of course my comments are to be included as being over the top too.
Ego, Ergo, I go.....and damn...there I go again !!!!

It is clear that a large number of us are seriously lacking in appreciation for views other than those which we hold personally.

God help me, but if this is the way the rest of the world deals with life, then it's no wonder the world appears to be going to hell in a hand basket.

Thanks for your interesting spin Mz Terry...I needed a little humor break.
(to say nothing about taking another look at how I hold my beliefs to be more valuable than what others believe).
Russ

[MsTerry]

One of the reasons life used to get more blissful with age, was that some of the faculties were fading.
What a relief it is when you don't hear everything anymore, can't see all the mistakes everywhere and forget what you were about to say.





Mz Terry you are a wonderfully wicked, wicked, person !!
After going over this whole mess...post by post, I've learned a few interesting things.
Few of us were willing to change our absurdly concrete, and often emotional, positions on a situation which none of us witnessed, and only heard about through one person's post.
And of course my comments are to be included as being over the top too.
Ego, Ergo, I go.....and damn...there I go again !!!!

It is clear that a large number of us are seriously lacking in appreciation for views other than those which we hold personally.

God help me, but if this is the way the rest of the world deals with life, then it's no wonder the world appears to be going to hell in a hand basket.

Thanks for your interesting spin Mz Terry...I needed a little humor break.
(to say nothing about taking another look at how I hold my beliefs to be more valuable than what others believe).
Russ

[Franklin Johnson]

Your analytical talents just keep getting sharper and sharper, splashed with a pinch of tongue-in-cheek.

Franklin


Since you don't have a problem with buying food for them
why do you have a problem with them getting what they like to eat, since you pay for it either way?

[patzy]

Your analytical talents just keep getting sharper and sharper, splashed with a pinch of tongue & cheek.

Franklin
Methinks MsTerry is simply sharped- tongued and is looking to strike out at those who have made very valid points about disallowing thievery instead of caving in to what seems to be a rush to be very P.C. about the original issue. I did not indicate I am willing to feed every sponger that comes along nor paying for stolen food stuff and food stuff that has been defiled by dirty hands pawing through it.
'Nuff said MsTerry you and this thread have outlived their welcome. Keep spouting, but you'll do it all by yourself.

[Dandelion]

Just think of the money you are Saving the Whole Paycheck, I mean
Whole Foods corporation!
I heard they were going to hire a rent-a-food-police to protect their bins during these economic times.
Now they don't need to.
Just goes to show that it all evens out in the end.


Methinks MsTerry is simply sharped- tongued and is looking to strike out at those who have made very valid points about disallowing thievery instead of caving in to what seems to be a rush to be very P.C. about the original issue. I did not indicate I am willing to feed every sponger that comes along nor paying for stolen food stuff and food stuff that has been defiled by dirty hands pawing through it.
'Nuff said MsTerry you and this thread have outlived their welcome. Keep spouting, but you'll do it all by yourself.

[MsTerry]

Three strikes and you're out , Patsy

one


I'm blocking out all WF posts from now on, this has turned the corner of ridiculous.


two

Ohhhh I said I wouldn't, and I hadn't continued to follow this thread (that is wearing verrrrrry thin!) and then my daily digest came in.....
'Nuff said.


three


'Nuff said MsTerry you and this thread have outlived their welcome. Keep spouting, but you'll do it all by yourself.

[Melodymama]

Ms Terry wrote: One of the reasons life used to get more blissful with age, was that some of the faculties were fading.
What a relief it is when you don't hear everything anymore, can't see all the mistakes everywhere and forget what you were about to say.

It is possible to find a calm and accepting stance (blissful) before losing some faculties. It is when you know that you do not have all the answers or even the entire picture of any situation and cannot make judgements. Knowing that things do get resolved without any one person needing to jump to judgement and take action. First, I do not believe that anyone is a scumbag. The term is rediculous. I am not trying to be PC. I am looking at the fact that we have no right to go around making the world right according to our individual guidelines. It is uncomfortable to see people who, for whatever reason, are doing deceptive things and using others. Also, to see someone who needs food badly enough to steal is a chance to wonder how hungy we would be to do the same.

Why don't we just try to reserve judgement and be generous in attitude for the rest of the year. Lighten up and give a little love. Love does go a lot farther toward ending wrong doing than punishment. What could it hurt? Laura

[Dandelion]

Here, here. Well said.
Judgment can be more harmful/hurtful than stealing food.


Ms Terry wrote: One of the reasons life used to get more blissful with age, was that some of the faculties were fading.
What a relief it is when you don't hear everything anymore, can't see all the mistakes everywhere and forget what you were about to say.

It is possible to find a calm and accepting stance (blissful) before losing some faculties. It is when you know that you do not have all the answers or even the entire picture of any situation and cannot make judgements. Knowing that things do get resolved without any one person needing to jump to judgement and take action. First, I do not believe that anyone is a scumbag. The term is rediculous. I am not trying to be PC. I am looking at the fact that we have no right to go around making the world right according to our individual guidelines. It is uncomfortable to see people who, for whatever reason, are doing deceptive things and using others. Also, to see someone who needs food badly enough to steal is a chance to wonder how hungy we would be to do the same.

Why don't we just try to reserve judgement and be generous in attitude for the rest of the year. Lighten up and give a little love. Love does go a lot farther toward ending wrong doing than punishment. What could it hurt? Laura

[Gary Jensen]

How about stricter controls, just from a public health standpoint. That alone would solve the problem. And it should be done, as eye witness accounts attest to.

I appreciate the strongly implied vision that people have of an ideal society where nobody will abuse public vulnerabilities. But let's face it, that's not the world we live in. Those are pipe dream fantasies and utopias. Look at Wall Street (the real world) and the brink of a new depression we're in. But instead we are more concerned about this one (or many) hungry 'scumbags' that steal some food from a supposedly 'progressive' market. And also because there is this attitude about being on the honor system because it is unsealed food.

Truth is that this is an unsafe commercial practice and the public health authorities should crack down on food stores for doing this. That's what needs to be done. But getting into all of this high minded, flighty philosophizing, mutual reproaches and insults is lightyears away from what needs to be addressed. Writing a letter to the county health department seems like a far more productive and community oriented approach to this type of problem.

When our country nosedives into another economic abyss, you and I just might join him in being 'scumbags,' stealing food to feed ourselves and our families.

Come on!

Gary

[Melodymama]

I appreciate the strongly implied vision that people have of an ideal society where nobody will abuse public vulnerabilities. But let's face it, that's not the world we live in. Those are pipe dream fantasies and utopias. Look at Wall Street (the real world) and the brink of a new depression we're in.

I do not have an ideal vision of what society should be, and I do have a vision of what a much better, positive, and healing world it could be if we approached it by talking to each other at the time. Possibly approaching the person and giving them a dollar to buy the stuff. Being a good role model for generosity of heart is much stronger than complaining and calling in the understaffed "authorities." And, I would say, eating anything we have not seen growing in a patch that we supervise and then cooking it ourself is a crap shoot. Thank Goddess we are mostly immune to most things and if we get sick, we get sick. I do think the drain of being worried and tattling on others is more destructive to the immune system. In any situation I try to remember to ask myself, what is the most positive influence I can offer? I am self assured and direct (you cain't take Texas outa the girl) so it is easy for me to address strangers. I am strange in my own ways, so no one is a stranger to me. All I am inviting anyone to try is to find a yes, rather than a no no response. We are all on this big spaceship together, and we need each other and positive influences more than ever. Thanks fer listnin', Laura

[babaruss]

I appreciate the strongly implied vision that people have of an ideal society where nobody will abuse public vulnerabilities. But let's face it, that's not the world we live in. Those are pipe dream fantasies and utopias (snip).... ..................But getting into all of this high minded, flighty philosophizing, mutual reproaches and insults is lightyears away from what needs to be addressed. ..

To the contrary Gary...getting into all this high minded, low minded, utopian anti-utopian, love your brother, kill the bastard, controversy, is exactly what needs to be done.
The more we share our beliefs, ideas, feelings, the more we learn about each other. The more we learn, the more we tend to soften, and even accept those who heretofore were completely unacceptable to us as having every right to their opinions.
Utopian views can be especially narrow.
Authoritarian views also are very narrow.
Add your own ideas of narrow views here_________________________.
I assure you there are plenty of very narrow, limited ideas out there (about what is right and proper for the rest of us).
High minded, as well as low minded, folk may all be sorely limited where it comes to grasping reality.
WaccoBB is a 'community' or so it professes to be. My understanding of community is that it does not reject it's members, nor their ideas, but rather appreciates differing points of views. Appreciating a certain person's point of view is not the same as accepting it as valid for you.
We are not clones...to look alike...sound alike...and bore the life out of each with our sameness.
Nor should we attack everyone with whom we disagree.
But then again...that's probably a pipe dream I'm having right ?
Russ

[Gary Jensen]

Blessed Be the Lady, Laura.

And I think that being a role model of generosity by giving the needy person a dollar to buy it him/herself is an excellent idea. We'll all be needing a dollar soon enough.

However, the authorities are understaffed precisely because of a lack of the attitude you are espousing. If people in general would be generous enough to want to pay more taxes for social services then incidences like the 'scumbag' stealing food to eat wouldn't be seen in the first place.

I'm deeply disheartened by the fact that almost everyone has overlooked that this man was HUNGRY! That is pathetic that the richest country in the world has people who have to steal for food! But the original poster paid no mind to this crucial detail. She limited herself to vilifying a human being in a terrible state of desperation. She should know someday what this is like and she just might learn an important lesson in life (but I seriously doubt it).

I also agree with you that putting anything in your mouth that you didn't watch grow and blindly poisoning your body with it is a crap shoot because of profit motivated companies like Monsanto (maker of GMOs), corporate farms, and many others.

I further agree that being worried about and tattling on others as if we were self-appointed snitches does more damage than good, including to ourselves.

I admire your ability to address strangers and your approach of what you can offer to make things better. Infinitely better than the scornful, self-appointed cop character.

Thank you for the invitation, which I accept. And thank you for making my ride on this spaceship a little brighter!

We all need each other in this life and forcing people to live on a misguided philosophy of self-reliance is both cruel and wrong. We need to pull together and cooperate and help each other out as much as possible.

Gary



I do not have an ideal vision of what society should be, and I do have a vision of what a much better, positive, and healing world it could be if we approached it by talking to each other at the time. Possibly approaching the person and giving them a dollar to buy the stuff. Being a good role model for generosity of heart is much stronger than complaining and calling in the understaffed "authorities." And, I would say, eating anything we have not seen growing in a patch that we supervise and then cooking it ourself is a crap shoot. Thank Goddess we are mostly immune to most things and if we get sick, we get sick. I do think the drain of being worried and tattling on others is more destructive to the immune system. In any situation I try to remember to ask myself, what is the most positive influence I can offer? I am self assured and direct (you cain't take Texas outa the girl) so it is easy for me to address strangers. I am strange in my own ways, so no one is a stranger to me. All I am inviting anyone to try is to find a yes, rather than a no no response. We are all on this big spaceship together, and we need each other and positive influences more than ever. Thanks fer listnin', Laura

[Gary Jensen]

Well, gee, Russ, thank you for pointing this out! I agree with you. It is better for people to engage each other and exchange their ideas and different points of view. We are the richer for it.

And now so am I.

Gary



[quote=Gary Jensen;77308] I appreciate the strongly implied vision that people have of an ideal society where nobody will abuse public vulnerabilities. But let's face it, that's not the world we live in. Those are pipe dream fantasies and utopias (snip).... ..................But getting into all of this high minded, flighty philosophizing, mutual reproaches and insults is lightyears away from what needs to be addressed. ...end quote]

To the contray Gary...getting into all this high minded, low minded, utopian anti-utopian, love your brother, kill the bastard, controversy, is exactly what needs to be done.
The more we share our beliefs, ideas, feelings, the more we learn about each other. The more we learn, the more we tend to soften, and even accept those who heretofore were completely unacceptable to us as having every right to their opinions.
Utopian views can be especially narrow.
Authoritarian views also are very narrow.
Add your own ideas of narrow views here_________________________.
I assure you there are plenty of very narrow, limited ideas out there (about what is right and proper for the rest of us).
High minded, as well as low minded, folk may all be sorely limited where it comes to grasping reality.
WaccoBB is a 'community' or so it professes to be. My understanding of community is that it does not reject it's members, nor their ideas, but rather appreciates differing points of views. Appreciating a certain person's point of view is not the same as accepting it as valid for you.
We are not clones...to look alike...sound alike...and bore the life out of each with our sameness.
Nor should we attack everyone with whom we disagree.
But then again...that's probably a pipe dream I'm having right ?
Russ

[papanut]

oh work it baby, work it


Oh miracle of miracles, oh joyous of joys, oh thank you most blessed
of the blessed.
May you live long, may your robes forever flow, and may your red
slippers shine (never catching the attention of the wicked witch).
Russ...humbled beyond what mere words might express.

[Hot Compost]

it's now 6:23 PM on Thursday January 29, 2009. we're coming up on the 6-week anniversary of the Whole Foods Shoplifter Incident.

[Melodymama]

it's now 6:23 PM on Thursday January 29, 2009. we're coming up on the 6-week anniversary of the Scumbag Shoplifter incident.
Can we either declare the issue dead or, at the very least, get rid of the label Scumbag? This is so offensive to me. Labeling others is such a negative way to see others. We never know the entirety of a situation, and calling names is never a useful choice. Laura