Global Warming Fraud?

[Zeno Swijtink]

"The sky is very likely falling slowly now, and ever faster tomorrow, according to the IPCC." (...) "And if we wait too long no known technology can stop the sky from falling."

B.S. That is conclusionary thinking which requires a huge LEAP. That is nothing more than an unfounded opinion, Zeno. In fact, THAT appears to have just been pulled out of someone's arse, as the statement itself is unsupported by any of your previous statement. That is emotionally charged opinion, nothing more. For all you know, the Earth will correct itself, because for all you know, this global warming is simply natural phenomena, the same way global warming has occurred many times before. You don't know.



I must have hit a nerve here when I see you utter a vulgarity and misidentify a word in one breath!

[thewholetruth]

There was no vulgarity in my comment nor did I "misidentify a word" that I can see. But you're right that you hit a nerve: the nerve that goes off when I see people jumping to conclusions and calling those conclusions "facts". Americans have gotten very casual about many things, including what we think we "know". It's important to pay attention to the evidence we gather, in order to see if it really DOES add up. Yours doesn't add up, although it's clear how you WANT IT to add up.

Don


I must have hit a nerve here when I see you utter a vulgarity and misidentify a word in one breath!

[Clancy]

Americans have gotten very casual about many things, including what we think we "know".

That is SO true...

International Panel of Climate Scientists Sounds Dire Alarm

An international panel of climate scientists said yesterday that there is an overwhelming probability that human activities are warming the planet at a dangerous rate, with consequences that could soon take decades or centuries to reverse.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, made up of hundreds of scientists from 113 countries, said that based on new research over the last six years, it is 90 percent certain that human-generated greenhouse gases account for most of the global rise in temperatures over the past half-century.

Declaring that "warming of the climate system is unequivocal," the authors said in their "Summary for Policymakers" that even in the best-case scenario, temperatures are on track to cross a threshold to an unsustainable level. A rise of more than 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit above pre-industrial levels would cause global effects -- such as massive species extinctions and melting of ice sheets -- that could be irreversible within a human lifetime. Under the most conservative IPCC scenario, the increase will be 4.5 degrees by 2100.

Richard Somerville, a distinguished professor at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography and one of the lead authors, said the world would have to undertake "a really massive reduction in emissions," on the scale of 70 to 80 percent, to avert severe global warming.

The scientists wrote that it is "very likely" that hot days, heat waves and heavy precipitation will become more frequent in the years to come, and "likely" that future tropical hurricanes and typhoons will become more intense. Arctic sea ice will disappear "almost entirely" by the end of the century, they said, and snow cover will contract worldwide.

While the summary did not produce any groundbreaking observations -- it reflects a massive distillation of the peer-reviewed literature through the middle of 2006 -- it represents the definitive international scientific and political consensus on climate science. It provides much more definitive conclusions than the panel's previous report in 2001, which said only that it was "likely" -- meaning between 66 and 90 percent probability on a scale the panel adopted -- that human activity accounted for the warming recorded over the past 50 years.

Some of the report's most compelling sections focused on future climate changes, because the buildup of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere would exert an effect even if industrialized countries stopped emitting greenhouse gases tomorrow. Gerald Meehl, a senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo., who helped oversee the chapter on climate projections, said that in the next two decades alone, global temperatures will rise by 0.7 degrees Fahrenheit.

"We're committed to a certain amount of warming," said Meehl, who worked with 16 computer-modeling teams from 11 countries. "A lot of these changes continue through the 21st century and become more severe as time goes on."

Meehl added, however, that a sharp cut in greenhouse gas emissions could still keep catastrophic consequences from occurring: "The message is, it does make a difference what we do."

For the first time, IPCC scientists also looked at regional climate shifts in detail, concluding that precipitation in the American Southwest will decline as summer temperatures rise, just as precipitation in the Northeast will increase. Linda Mearns -- another NCAR senior scientist who was also one of the lead authors -- said these changes could cause water shortages and affect recreational activities in the Southwest. Developing countries in Africa and elsewhere could also experience severe droughts.

Governments and scientific organizations across the globe nominate scientists to produce and review the IPCC assessment without pay under the auspices of the United Nations. A group of key authors and government officials met in Paris this week to finalize the document, which reflects three years of work.

"Every government in the world signed off on this document, including the U.S.," said World Bank chief scientist Robert T. Watson, who chaired the last round of deliberations. Watson added that compared with the 2001 report, "the difference is now they have more confidence in what they're doing."

The authors concluded that Earth's average temperature will increase between 3.2 and 7.8 degrees Fahrenheit over the next century, while sea levels will rise between seven and 23 inches.

IPCC scientists also said that global warming will not trigger a shutdown within the next 100 years of the North Atlantic ocean current that keeps Northern Europe temperate, though they do not predict whether it might occur in future centuries. In a similar vein, the authors said they did not have sophisticated enough computer models to project how much melting of the Greenland ice sheet would boost sea levels over the next century, but they suggested that over several centuries the ice sheet's disappearance could raise sea levels by a devastating 23 feet.

Bush administration officials said yesterday that they welcomed the report and emphasized that U.S. research funding helped underpin its conclusions. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Administrator Conrad C. Lautenbacher Jr., who oversees much of the nation's climate research, said in an interview that the international assessment will lead to "a more objective and informative public debate."

But environmental advocates said the White House -- which remains opposed to mandatory limits on U.S. carbon emissions -- is making a mistake in assuming research and technological advances alone will address global warming.

"The administration's proposals are at least a decade away," said Angela Anderson, vice president for climate programs at the National Environmental Trust. "The promise of better technologies tomorrow shouldn't stop us from doing what we can today."

House and Senate Democratic leaders back a cap on greenhouse gases and hope to enact such legislation this year; next week, several of the report's authors are to testify in congressional hearings.

In an interview yesterday, House Science and Technology Committee Chairman Bart Gordon (D-Tenn.) called the report "a unanimous, definitive world statement" on climate change that, if anything, was too conservative. "It's time to end the debate and act," Gordon said. "All the naysayers should step aside."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/02/AR2007020200192_2.html

[Zeno Swijtink]

Gosh, Zeno, you were pretty quick to play the "Slam Don Spiritually" card when Spirituality hasn't been mentioned here at all.
(snip)

Don

I see that you are a minister of a local congregation so I wonder how you apply your ideas about proof, truth, fact, theory to the Bible?

[Zeno Swijtink]

There was no vulgarity in my comment nor did I "misidentify a word" that I can see. But you're right that you hit a nerve: the nerve that goes off when I see people jumping to conclusions and calling those conclusions "facts". Americans have gotten very casual about many things, including what we think we "know". It's important to pay attention to the evidence we gather, in order to see if it really DOES add up. Yours doesn't add up, although it's clear how you WANT IT to add up.

Don

"Arse" is vulgar, esp. when uttered by a clergyman, Don, and "conclusionary" is not a word.

I said that, unless we develop technology to remove GHGs from the air faster than current natural carbon sinks do, if we wait too long we cannot stop the sky from falling.

This is so because GHGs such as CO2 and CFCs naturally have a long half life or residency time in the atmosphere. Current concentrations are not in equilibrium with the present average atmospheric temperature, and some temperature increase is already build in into the system, or is already "in the pipeline."

American evangelical Christian leaders (https://www.christiansandclimate.org/) are recognizing the threats of climate change: "The same love for God and neighbor that compels us to preach salvation through Jesus Christ, protect the unborn, preserve the family and the sanctity of marriage, and take the whole Gospel to a hurting world, also compels us to recognize that human-induced climate change is a serious Christian issue requiring action now."

This is an issue that should transcend political and religious differences.

[thewholetruth]

""Arse" is vulgar, esp. when uttered by a clergyman, Don..."

That's a matter of opinion, Zeno, of which I do not agree. Arse is slang and is the equivalent of butt, bottom or buttocks, used in place of the more offensive "ass". Is "butt" vulgar, IYO, Zeno? Not to this "clergyman".

"...and "conclusionary" is not a word."

No? See below:

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conclusionary

1 result for: conclusionary
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Main Entry: con·clu·sion·ary
Pronunciation: <TT minmax_bound="true">k&n-'klü-zh&-"ner-E</TT>
Function: adjective
: CONCLUSORY (https://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=mwlaw&q=conclusory)
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Regarding American Evangelical Christian leaders: There are many who are totally lost, Zeno, trapped in the dictates of Liberalism, trying desperately to keep a paycheck coming in, supporting completely unGodly, unBiblical things. One can always find an "American Evangelical Christian leader" who supports just about anything. They're just people, too, you know, with their own agendas sometimes, just like you.

Don


"Arse" is vulgar, esp. when uttered by a clergyman, Don, and "conclusionary" is not a word.

I said that, unless we develop technology to remove GHGs from the air faster than current natural carbon sinks do, if we wait too long we cannot stop the sky from falling.

This is so because GHGs such as CO2 and CFCs naturally have a long half life or residency time in the atmosphere. Current concentrations are not in equilibrium with the present average atmospheric temperature, and some temperature increase is already build in into the system, or is already "in the pipeline."

American evangelical Christian leaders (https://www.christiansandclimate.org/) are recognizing the threats of climate change: "The same love for God and neighbor that compels us to preach salvation through Jesus Christ, protect the unborn, preserve the family and the sanctity of marriage, and take the whole Gospel to a hurting world, also compels us to recognize that human-induced climate change is a serious Christian issue requiring action now."

This is an issue that should transcend political and religious differences.

[Zeno Swijtink]

"...and "conclusionary" is not a word."

No? See below:

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conclusionary


I stand corrected on conclusionary/conclusory. Thanks.

[Zeno Swijtink]

(snip)

Regarding American Evangelical Christian leaders: There are many who are totally lost, Zeno, trapped in the dictates of Liberalism, trying desperately to keep a paycheck coming in, supporting completely unGodly, unBiblical things. One can always find an "American Evangelical Christian leader" who supports just about anything. They're just people, too, you know, with their own agendas sometimes, just like you.

Don

You are quick to drop a group of your brothers, just because they do not agree with you on global climate chance, accusing them of monetary motives? Now that's what I call conclusory!

Are you suggesting that there is Scripture on anthropogenic climate change?

****
https://www.christiansandclimate.org/signatories

Rev. Dr. Leith Anderson, Interim President, National Association of Evangelicals (NAE); Senior Pastor, Wooddale Church, Eden Prairie, MN

Robert Andringa, P.h.D., Former President Council for Christian Colleges & Universities (CCCU), Washington, DC

Rev. Jim Ball, Ph.D., Executive Director, Evangelical Environmental Network; Wynnewood, PA

Commissioner W. Todd Bassett, National Commander, The Salvation Army; Alexandria, VA

Dr. Jay A. Barber, Jr., President, Warner Pacific College, Portland, OR

Dr. Gerald E. Bates, President, Spring Arbor University; Bishop Emeritus, Free Methodist church of North America; Spring Arbor, MI

Stephan Bauman, Senior Vice President, World Relief, Baltimore, MD

Rob Bell, Teaching Pastor, Mars Hill Bible Church, Grandville, MI

Rev. Ron Benefiel, Ph.D., President, Nazarene Theological Seminary, Kansas City, MO

Gary P. Bergel, President, Intercessors for America; Purcellville, VA

David Black, Ph.D., President, Eastern University, St. Davids, PA

Bishop Charles E. Blake, Sr., West Angeles Church of God in Christ, Los Angeles, CA

Rev. Dr. Dan Boone, President, Trevecca Nazarene University, Nashville, TN

Rev. Dr. Peter Borgdorff, Executive Director, Christian Reformed Church, Grand Rapids, MI

H. David Brandt, Ph.D., President, George Fox University, Newberg, OR

Rev. George K. Brushaber, Ph.D., President, Bethel University; Senior Advisor, Christianity Today; St. Paul, MN

Rev. Dwight Burchett, President, Northern California Association of Evangelicals; Sacramento, CA

Gaylen Byker, Ph.D., President, Calvin College, Grand Rapids, MI

Rev. Dr. Jerry B. Cain, President, Judson College, Elgin, IL

Rev. Dr. Clive Calver, Senior Pastor, Walnut Hill Community Church; Former President, World Relief; Bethel, CT

R. Judson Carlberg, Ph.D, President, Gordon College, Wenham, MA

Michael V. Carter, Ph.D, President, Campbellsville University, Campbellsville, KY

Rev. Dr. Paul Cedar, Chair, Mission America Coalition; Palm Desert, CA

Rev. John Chowning, Vice President for Church and External Relations and Director of the Kentucky Hartland Institute on Public Policy, Campbellsville University, Campbellsville, KY

David Clark, Ph.D., President, Palm Beach Atlantic University; Former Chair/CEO, Nat. Rel. Broadcasters; Founding Dean, Regent University; West Palm Beach, FL

Rev. Luis Cortes, President & CEO, Esperanza USA; Host, National Hispanic Prayer Breakfast; Philadelphia, PA

Paul R. Corts, President, Council for Christian Colleges & Universities (CCCU), Washington, DC

Andy Crouch, Columnist, Christianity Today magazine; Swarthmore, PA

Rev. Paul de Vries, Ph.D., President, New York Divinity School; New York, NY

Larry R. Donnithorne, Ed.D., President, Colorado Christian University, Lakewood, CO

Blair Dowden, Ed.D., President, Huntington University, Huntington, IN

Rev. Robert P. Dugan, Jr., Former VP of Governmental Affairs, National Association of Evangelicals; Palm Desert, CA

Craig Hilton Dyer, President, Bright Hope International, Hoffman Estates, IL

Philip Eaton, Ph.D., President, Seattle Pacific University, Seattle, WA

Daryl R. Eldridge, Ph.D., President, Rock Bridge Seminary, Springfield, MO

D. Merrill Ewert, Ph.D., President, Fresno Pacific University, Fresno, CA

Rev. Dr. LeBron Fairbanks, President, Mount Vernon Nazarene University, Mount Vernon, OH

Rev. Myles Fish, President/CEO, International Aid, Spring Lake, MI

Rev. Dr. Floyd Flake, Senior Pastor, Greater Allen AME Cathedral; President, Wilberforce University; Jamaica, NY

Rev. Scott Freeman, Senior Pastor, Northside Church of Christ; Waco, TX

Luke A. Gascho, Ed.D., Executive Director of Merry Lea Environmental Learning Center of Goshen College, Wolf Lake, IN

Rev. Timothy George, Ph.D., Founding Dean, Beeson Divinity School, Samford University, Executive Editor, Christianity Today; Birmingham, AL

Rev. Michael J. Glodo, Former Stated Clerk, Evangelical Presbyterian Church , Orlando, FL

Rev. James M. Grant, Ph.D., President, Simpson University, Redding, CA

Rev. Dr. Jeffrey E. Greenway, President, Asbury Theological Seminary, Wilmore, KY

Rev. Dr. Craig Groeschel, Senior Pastor, Life Church, Edmond, OK

Rev. David Gushee, Professor of Moral Philosophy, Mercer University; columnist, Religion News Service; Atlanta, GA

Gregory V. Hall, President, Warner Southern College, Lake Wales, FL

Brent Hample, Executive Director, India Partners, Eugene OR

Bishop Roger W. Haskins, Jr., Free Methodist Church of North America, Glendora, CA

Rev. Dr. Jack Hayford, President, International Church of the Foursquare Gospel, Los Angeles, CA

Rev. Steve Hayner, Ph.D., Former President, InterVarsity; Prof. of Evangelism, Columbia Theological Sem., Decatur, GA

Rev. Dr. Roberta Hestenes, Pastor, Educator, Speaker; Former President Eastern University; Danville, CA

E. Douglas Hodo, Ph.D., Former President, Houston Baptist University, Houston, TX

Ben Homan, President, Food for the Hungry; President, Association of Evangelical Relief and Development Organizations (AERDO); Phoenix, AZ

Rev. Gordon P. Hugenberger Ph.D., Senior Minister, Park Street Church, Boston, MA

Rev. Dr. Joel Hunter, Senior Pastor, Northland, A Church Distributed; Longwood, FL

Rev. Bill Hybels, Senior Pastor, Willow Creek Community Church, South Barrington, IL

Bishop Joseph F. James, Free Methodist Church of North America, Indianapolis, IN

Bryce Jessup, President, William Jessup University, Rocklin, CA

Ed Johnson, President, Au Sable Institute of Environmental Studies, Grand Rapids, MI

Larry F. Johnston, Ph.D., President, McConkey•Johnston International Inc., Woodland Park, CO

Ronald G. Johnson, Ph.D., Former President, Malone College, Canton, OH

Rev. Dr. Phillip Charles Joubert, Sr., Pastor, Community Baptist Church, Bayside, NY

Jennifer Jukanovich, Founder, The Vine, Seattle, WA

Bishop David W. Kendall, Free Methodist Church of North America, Greenville, IL

Rev. Brian Kluth, Senior Pastor, First Evangelical Free Church; Founder, MAXIMUM Generosity; Colorado Springs, CO

Bishop James D. Leggett, General Superintendent, International Pentecostal Holiness Church; Chair, Pentecostal World Fellowship; Oklahoma City, OK

Duane Litfin, Ph.D., President, Wheaton College, Wheaton IL

Rev. Dr. Larry Lloyd, President, Crichton College, Memphis, TN

Rev. Dr. Jo Anne Lyon, Executive Director, World Hope; Alexandria, VA

Rev. Dr. Gordon MacDonald, Chair of the Board, World Relief; Editor-at-Large, Leadership; Canterbury, NH

Jim Mannoia, Ph.D., President, Greenville College, Greenville, IL

Bishop George D. McKinney, Ph.D., D.D., St. Stephens Church Of God In Christ, San Diego, CA

Rev. Brian McLaren, Former Senior Pastor, Cedar Ridge Community Church; Emergent leader; Spencerville, MD

Rev. Dr. Daniel Mercaldo, Senior Pastor & Founder, Gateway Cathedral; Staten Island, NY

Rev. Dr. Jesse Miranda, President, AMEN, Costa Mesa, CA

Royce Money, Ph.D., President, Abilene Christian University, Abilene, TX

Richard Mouw, Ph.D., President, Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena, CA

Dr. Shirley Mullen, President, Houghton College, Houghton, NY

Dr. Bruce Murphy, President, Northwestern College, Orange City, IA

Rev. George W. Murray, D.Miss., President, Columbia International University, Columbia SC

David Neff, Editor, Christianity Today; Carol Stream, IL

Larry Nikkel, President, Tabor College, Hillsboro, KS

Michael Nyenhuis, President, MAP International; Brunswick, GA

Brian O'Connell, President, REACT Services; Founder and Former Executive Director, Religious Liberty Commission, World Evangelical Alliance; Mill Creek, WA

Rev. Glenn R. Palmberg, President, Evangelical Covenant Church, Chicago, IL

Roger Parrott, Ph.D., President, Belhaven College, Jackson, MS

John E. Phelan, Jr., President and Dean, North Park Theological Seminary, Chicago, IL

Kim S. Phipps, Ph.D., President, Messiah College, Grantham, PA

Charles W. Pollard, Ph.D., J.D., President, John Brown University, Siloam Springs, AR

Paul A. Rader, D.Miss., President, Asbury College, Wilmore, KY

Rev. Edwin H. Robinson, Ph.D., President, MidAmerica Nazarene University, Olathe , KS

William P. Robinson, Ph.D., President, Whitworth College, Spokane, WA

Rev. Scott Rodin, Ph.D., President, Christian Stewardship Association; former President, Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary; author of Stewards in the Kingdom; Spokane, WA

Lee Royce, Ph.D., President, Mississippi College, Clinton, MS

Andy Ryskamp, Executive Director, Christian Reformed World Relief Committee, Grand Rapids, MI

Scott C. Sabin, Executive Director, Floresta USA, San Diego, CA

Rev. Ron Sider, Ph.D., President, Evangelicals for Social Action, Philadelphia, PA

Matthew Sleeth, MD, author of Serve God, Save the Planet; Wilmore, KY

Bishop Richard D. Snyder, Free Methodist Church of North America, Rock Hill, SC

Rev. Travis Stanley, Preaching Pastor, Plymouth Park Church of Christ, Irving, TX

Richard Stearns, President, World Vision, Federal Way, WA

Rev. Jewelle Stewart, Ex. Dir., Women's Ministries, International Pentecostal Holiness Church; Oklahoma City, OK

James Sundhome, Director, Covenant World Relief, Evangelical Covenant Church, Chicago, IL

Rev. Dr. Loren Swartzendruber, President, Eastern Mennonite University, Harrisonburg VA

C. Pat Taylor, Ph.D., President, Southwest Baptist University, Bolivar, MO

Steven Timmermans, Ph.D, President, Trinity Christian College; Palos Hights, IL

Rev. Charles C. Tyler, Pastor, New Covenant Presbyterian Church (PCA), Manning, SC

Rev. Berten A. Waggoner, National Director, Vineyard, USA; Sugar Land, TX

Jon R. Wallace, DBA, President, Azusa Pacific University, Azusa, CA

Rev. Jim Wallis, Founder and Editor of Sojourners magazine, Washington, DC

Rev. Dr. Rick Warren, Senior Pastor, Saddleback Church; author of The Purpose Driven Life; Lake Forest, CA

John Warton, President, Business Professional Network, Portland, OR

Rev. Dr. Thomas Yung-Hsin Wang, former International Director of Lausanne II, Sunnyvale, CA

John D. Yordy, Ph. D., Provost, Goshen College, Goshen, IN

Adm. Tim Ziemer, Director of Programs, World Relief, Baltimore, MD

[thewholetruth]

"You are quick to drop a group of your brothers..."

I haven't "dropped" a group of my brothers, sir. I have no problem calling a spade a spade, and what I've said is true. There are entire denominations out there who are desperately trying to continue EXISTING who have compromised the Gospel in their effort to obtain more donations. That's a fact, Zeno.

"... just because they do not agree with you on global climate chance, accusing them of monetary motives?"

Incorrect, sir. There are many ways that they compromise the integrity of the Gospel in their effort to get bodies into their churches. Whether or not they agree with me on global climate change is not one of them.

"Are you suggesting that there is Scripture on anthropogenic climate change?"

No I am not. There probably is, as the Bible seems to address absolutely everything Man is involved in, but that is not what I'm suggesting here. You've misinterpreted my comments.

Don

[quote=Zeno Swijtink;56048]You are quick to drop a group of your brothers, just because they do not agree with you on global climate chance, accusing them of monetary motives? Now that's what I call conclusory!

Are you suggesting that there is Scripture on anthropogenic climate change?

****
https://www.christiansandclimate.org/signatories