why isn't dogfighting OK too?

[ThePhiant]

why can't we breed dogs for dogfighting?
we breed cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, fish just so that we can kill them.
we allow people to put hooks in fish, and mutilate them and then throw them back in the water.
we can put 2 day old calves in plastic boxes so they can't move untill we are ready to eat them.
you can go to any hardware store buy torturous devices to kill mice, rats, ants, cockroaches etcetera.
so why can't we have dogs for fighting and make a little money along the way?
if we are in charge of all the animals, we should be able to do whatever we want.

[nanopiano]

Are you freak'in kidding????

Let me ask YOU a question...does the air blow freely through your head or is it say...restricted by a brain????

[ThePhiant]

nano
from your well thought out and articulated response I must surmise that you have no problem with my proposition.
thank you for your support!


Are you freak'in kidding????

[BizWrangler]

ThePhiant is merely a TROLL attempting to get attention and stir the waters. Please, don't feed the beast. Ignore, do not comment.



Are you freak'in kidding????

Let me ask YOU a question...does the air blow freely through your head or is it say...restricted by a brain????

[eternalthump]

Well, I think he's honestly asking this question, because he has an argument for it that does give valid reason TO discuss it. (How DARE people treat this guy as a freak! It was people telling me I was a freak when I came out of the closet)
ANYHOOOOO... My opinion/answer is would you want to live life fighting to the death for someone else's entertainment or would you rather feed a family to nourish them with protien?
Most of you are going to off concerning my statement, so let me say one final sentence....I rest my case.

[eternalthump]

Oh my fricken God!!! Is that all you opposers can say? "He's a troll and sock puppets. I don't know how to explain my beliefs and what I think is right, but I'm going to be safe and jump on the bandwagon". Honey, call 911 because you just fell off! I remember a saying in grade school that represents the name callers: Duh, george. I know you are but what am I?" LOLOLOLOLOL

[BizWrangler]

It is incredibly SAD you would even pose this question in the first place. You probably condone cock fighting too. It's even SADDER that you BELIEVE these to be right. No conversation here is going to change your mind, and I'm not going to waste my time attempting to do so, either.



Oh my fricken God!!! Is that all you opposers can say? "He's a troll and sock puppets. I don't know how to explain my beliefs and what I think is right, but I'm going to be safe and jump on the bandwagon". Honey, call 911 because you just fell off! I remember a saying in grade school that represents the name callers: Duh, george. I know you are but what am I?" LOLOLOLOLOL

[ThePhiant]

LADIES, WATCH OUT FOR THIS PUPPY!!!!
Clancy might post a photo of himself, the size of his ego but watch out!!!

he publicly announced that he is ignoring The Phiant but in reality,
HE IS STILL READING WHAT THE PHIANT POSTS
Does that make him a liar????????????????????

if he doesn't like what you say, he will call you a name
after he is done using his uncircumsized sock puppet......................................



Please don't feed the troll, or it's sock puppets.

[ThePhiant]

you sure got balls!
how dare you sneak past the WaccoPolice, and then have to gall to even post?
it doesn't matter wether I have a valid point or not, the most important thing is that everybody is united so you don't have to think for yourself!
after all it's a time to be gay when people think you are Queer

Love

LuLu


Well, I think he's honestly asking this question, because he has an argument for it that does give valid reason TO discuss it. (How DARE people treat this guy as a freak! It was people telling me I was a freak when I came out of the closet)
ANYHOOOOO... My opinion/answer is would you want to live life fighting to the death for someone else's entertainment or would you rather feed a family to nourish them with protien?
Most of you are going to off concerning my statement, so let me say one final sentence....I rest my case.

[ThePhiant]

Yep, you did it again!
ignorance is BLISS!
why would you even bother to read what someone has to say??????????



It is incredibly SAD you would even pose this question in the first place. You probably condone cock fighting too. It's even SADDER that you BELIEVE these to be right. No conversation here is going to change your mind, and I'm not going to waste my time attempting to do so, either.

[ThePhiant]

Oh Clancy,

Wasn't it you who said a troll will try to turn people against each other to divide the community?
Is that what you are trying to do ?
making sure that people call each other names?
like a dogfight?
Scolding people in public for expressing an opinion?
how far are you willing to go?
after all it was you who claimed that everyone is capable of killing someone!
but you weren't so understanding when it came to 2 little kitties!
what are you capable of.....................................



Please don't feed the troll, or it's sock puppets.

[jborges3]

trolls & sock puppets? Some days I almost unsubscribe ...

I agree with ThePhiant, not that fighting dogs is a good idea, but that the arbitrary line in the gray sand is bullshit

I hope that some judgemental and self righteous anti-dogfighting animal eater will come along and show me the flaw in my thinking.

[AquaGyrl]

Nanopiano, bizwrangler, clancy... just who the hell do you think you are? Sheesh. Responding to a post with naming calling and calls for censorship? If you have a problem with someone who is posting then ignore their posts or shove off. You make yourselves look ridiculous.





Oh Clancy,

Wasn't it you who said a troll will try to turn people against each other to divide the community?
Is that what you are trying to do ?
making sure that people call each other names?
like a dogfight?
Scolding people in public for expressing an opinion?
how far are you willing to go?
after all it was you who claimed that everyone is capable of killing someone!
but you weren't so understanding when it came to 2 little kitties!
what are you capable of.....................................

[Barry]

Since you brought it up, where exactly do YOU draw the line, TP? Do you eat fish? Are you a vegetarian? A vegan? A fuitarian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarian), or better yet a breatharian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breatharianism#See_also)? Where do you draw the line?

It's a simple question and I dare you to give a clear answer.


why can't we breed dogs for dogfighting?
we breed cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, fish just so that we can kill them.
we allow people to put hooks in fish, and mutilate them and then throw them back in the water.
we can put 2 day old calves in plastic boxes so they can't move untill we are ready to eat them.
you can go to any hardware store buy torturous devices to kill mice, rats, ants, cockroaches etcetera.
so why can't we have dogs for fighting and make a little money along the way?
if we are in charge of all the animals, we should be able to do whatever we want.

[ThePhiant]

Barry, you don't have to dare me just to answer simple questions.
unless of course you want to put up a reward for clarity.
how about my 'skirt' back????

since you asked
No, I don't eat fish, yes vegetarian, can't stay off the cheese though,
but less and less after becoming aware that cows are milked for a couple of years and then just offed too, but no milk(don't like it ) I do eat a lot of raw food, 5-10 pieces of fruit a day (but I wouldn't call myself a fruitarian)
Breatharian, ah the 60's, no, I am not that full of air
How about YOU Barry, where do you draw the line?


Since you brought it up, where exactly do YOU draw the line, TP? Do you eat fish? Are you a vegetarian? A vegan? A fuitarian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarian), or better yet a breatharian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breatharianism#See_also)? Where do you draw the line?

It's a simple question and I dare you to give a clear answer.

[ThePhiant]

Ok, Barry
I gave you my answer
do you dare to give yours???



Since you brought it up, where exactly do YOU draw the line, TP? Do you eat fish? Are you a vegetarian? A vegan? A fuitarian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarian), or better yet a breatharian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breatharianism#See_also)? Where do you draw the line?

It's a simple question and I dare you to give a clear answer.

[ChristineL]

If your purpose was to make people think, it worked with me. It is interesting that dog fighting and cock fighting bring such emotional responses, but the calf in the plastic box doesn't. I'm not vegetarian, but I don't eat veal unless it's free range. The meat calf raising methods did provoke a visceral response in me. I also only buy eggs from free range chickens. The confinement and torture of laying hens also disgusted me. And....yes, breeding dogs for fighting does cause an emotional reaction. We have made dogs "our best friends" for centuries and somehow, breeding and raising them to torture each other does seem to be an extreme break of trust. I also don't care for cock fighting. To set animals against each other for our entertainment, does seem rather barbaric to me. Of course, I also believe that people who like to torture animals or enjoy all the blood and terror of animals set against each other will easily cross the line to people. Why do so many people enjoy watching boxing? Many are waiting to witness serious injury.

Dealing with a neighbor's abandonment of over a dozen un-neutered cats made me do some serious thinking about where I draw lines and what the best way to handle it was. I had to decide that possible euthanasia was better than being always on the verge of starvation and the impact of a feral cat colony in the neighborhood. Dealing with someone's two pit bulls that were getting loose and running around the neighborhood at least two to three times a week made me think again. When they roamed my property and got aggressive with my mother, I called Animal Control. We have children, gentle dogs, pet cats, elderly and disabled people in my neighborhood. I do feel bad these dogs may probably be euthanized. However, they did finally attack somebody. I can't be sure all my decisions were right, but I did give them a lot of thought and tried to take responsible action.

Yes, you did make me think about where I draw lines. It may not make me a vegetarian.....but it further increases my consciousness in choosing my food and my causes.

Another thing to think about. I've known people who grew up hunting to put meat on the table. They actually had guide lines they followed: No use of scopes or fancy hunting rifles, no shooting any animal that comes to you, and no does or fawns. They also never shot each other or people's dogs and cows. I can't say I'm hard core, absolutely no hunting. But come on, killing anything as a sport? Makes you wonder.

Come on everybody; name calling and snide comments are not necessary. Think.....DePhiant may be arrogant and high-handed in the way he writes, but his comments should provoke thought and self-examination. They did for me.

[mykil]

Penitenziagite!

[ThePhiant]

Christine,

consciousness is more than just being aware.
truth is everywhere and sometimes especially in the statements from those we despise.
if we were to bring home a live chicken to eat for our supper, we would understand the sacrifice animals dare to live for.
as long as we are able to buy meat in plastic, there will always be a disconnect.
next time you feel like eating meat, buy the real thing, a live chicken, pig, cow, deer, sheep, fish or turkey.
I would love to read your introspection on your experience of how you prepared this animal for the ultimate sacrifice.





If your purpose was to make people think, it worked with me. It is interesting that dog fighting and cock fighting bring such emotional responses, but the calf in the plastic box doesn't. I'm not vegetarian, but I don't eat veal unless it's free range. The meat calf raising methods did provoke a visceral response in me. I also only buy eggs from free range chickens. The confinement and torture of laying hens also disgusted me. And....yes, breeding dogs for fighting does cause an emotional reaction. We have made dogs "our best friends" for centuries and somehow, breeding and raising them to torture each other does seem to be an extreme break of trust. I also don't care for cock fighting. To set animals against each other for our entertainment, does seem rather barbaric to me. Of course, I also believe that people who like to torture animals or enjoy all the blood and terror of animals set against each other will easily cross the line to people. Why do so many people enjoy watching boxing? Many are waiting to witness serious injury.

Dealing with a neighbor's abandonment of over a dozen un-neutered cats made me do some serious thinking about where I draw lines and what the best way to handle it was. I had to decide that possible euthanasia was better than being always on the verge of starvation and the impact of a feral cat colony in the neighborhood. Dealing with someone's two pit bulls that were getting loose and running around the neighborhood at least two to three times a week made me think again. When they roamed my property and got aggressive with my mother, I called Animal Control. We have children, gentle dogs, pet cats, elderly and disabled people in my neighborhood. I do feel bad these dogs may probably be euthanized. However, they did finally attack somebody. I can't be sure all my decisions were right, but I did give them a lot of thought and tried to take responsible action.

Yes, you did make me think about where I draw lines. It may not make me a vegetarian.....but it further increases my consciousness in choosing my food and my causes.

Another thing to think about. I've known people who grew up hunting to put meat on the table. They actually had guide lines they followed: No use of scopes or fancy hunting rifles, no shooting any animal that comes to you, and no does or fawns. They also never shot each other or people's dogs and cows. I can't say I'm hard core, absolutely no hunting. But come on, killing anything as a sport? Makes you wonder.

Come on everybody; name calling and snide comments are not necessary. Think.....DePhiant may be arrogant and high-handed in the way he writes, but his comments should provoke thought and self-examination. They did for me.

[AquaGyrl]

Oh come on, Barry, if you don't answer ThePhiant's question people might suspect you're playing with Clancy's sock puppet.

Oh yeah, and Barry? while you're at it can we get a animated sock puppet smilie for the site? Preferrably one with a faulty elastic band around the top? The closest thing I can find is this two-fisted dancing :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

and that's not good enough.



Ok, Barry
I gave you my answer
do you dare to give yours???

[Barry]

Thanks for your clear answer, TP! So although you eat plenty of fruit, it sounds like you are a far ways from being fruitarian:


Some fruitarians will eat only what falls (or would fall) naturally from a plant, that is: foods that can be harvested without killing the plant. These foods consist primarily of culinary fruits, nuts, and seeds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed).<sup class="reference" id="_ref-5">[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism#_note-5)</sup> Many do not eat grains, believing it is unnatural to do so,<sup class="reference" id="_ref-6">[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism#_note-6)</sup> and some fruitarians feel that it is improper for humans to eat seeds.<sup class="reference" id="_ref-7">[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism#_note-7)</sup> Additionally, there are fruitarians who believe they should eat only plants that spread seeds when the plant is eaten.

From a strict place of honoring all life, including our plant brothers and sisters, it seems to me that fruitarianism is the way to go, and anything short of that, including veganism, is some sort of compromise or animal arrogance. It's either OK to consume/use other things that are alive or not. I think it is and it's best done with respect.

As for me, I'm an omnivore, but I eat very little meat aside from free-range chicken and some occasional wild fish. I don't eat lamb (except on Passover) or veal. I have gotten to this "line" because I believe it is "natural" for some animals to eat other animals. It's just the way it is.

I try to be conscious when I am eating meat, that it came from an animal that gave it's life so I could eat it and I am grateful for it. I looked at how I would feel about raising and slaughtering these animals my self if it weren't for supermarkets, and I feel OK about it.

OK, onto your question, "why isn't dogfighting OK too?"

First, see that we have different ways of honoring life and living in accordance with our values. It's a question of what we believe, (for instance, you apparently think it's OK to kill vegetables to eat them, but not animals) and living in accordance with our values.

"What's OK" is a function of the values of the majority of the members of a society. It's just another line, if its anything beyond strict fruitarianism.

Whereas there maybe 20% of society that find eating animals not OK, I would say maybe 99% of society would find instigating animal fights not OK.

So it's "not OK" by society's standards, because the vast majority of people think it's not OK (for a variety of reasons).



Barry, you don't have to dare me just to answer simple questions.
unless of course you want to put up a reward for clarity.
how about my 'skirt' back????

since you asked
No, I don't eat fish, yes vegetarian, can't stay off the cheese though,
but less and less after becoming aware that cows are milked for a couple of years and then just offed too, but no milk(don't like it ) I do eat a lot of raw food, 5-10 pieces of fruit a day (but I wouldn't call myself a fruitarian)
Breatharian, ah the 60's, no, I am not that full of air
How about YOU Barry, where do you draw the line?

[Barry]

If you find sock puppet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_sock_puppet) smilie, I'd be happy to add it to our collection!


...
Oh yeah, and Barry? while you're at it can we get a animated sock puppet smilie for the site? Preferrably one with a faulty elastic band around the top? The closest thing I can find is this two-fisted dancing :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

and that's not good enough.

[ThePhiant]

plant make them self attractive in order to be propagated.

well, let's see.
fruits - I don't think we have to wait until they fall onto the ground to eat them, I don't chop down trees to get the fruits either.
Seeds- seeds and nuts and grains are end products, from a thousand seeds only a few will be propagated naturally, the rest is to attract birds and animals, they use us and other animals to travel, otherwise plants would be immobile. it is a symbiotic relationship.
Plants- most vegetables are end products, most vegetables are annuals and would not live much longer beyond the time they are picked for eating.
plant make them self attractive in order to be propagated.
in terms of life force there does seem to be a difference between plants and animals. if we weren't cultivating them, who do you think would survive on their own? a chicken or a carrot?



Thanks for your clear answer, TP! So although you eat plenty of fruit, it sounds like you are a far ways from being fruitarian:I never aspired to be a fruitarian, I just like fruit


From a strict place of honoring all life, including our plant brothers and sisters, it seems to me that fruitarianism is the way to go, and anything short of that, including veganism, is some sort of compromise or animal arrogance. It's either OK to consume/use other things that are alive or not. I think it is and it's best done with respect.yes, respect is the key


As for me, I'm an omnivore, but I eat very little meat aside from free-range chicken and some occasional wild fish. I don't eat lamb (except on Passover) or veal. I have gotten to this "line" because I believe it is "natural" for some animals to eat other animals. It's just the way it is.
yes, some animals eat animals. But you know what? we are just not equipped to eat other animals "naturally". we just don't have the teeth, the nails or the stomach juices to really take on another species.
we come from a line of scavengers, who clean up the carcasses after the real wild animals tear the prey apart
but we do have a brain, to figure out how not to have to pollute the world just for our meat consumption.


I try to be conscious when I am eating meat, that it came from an animal that gave it's life so I could eat it and I am grateful for it. I looked at how I would feel about raising and slaughtering these animals my self if it weren't for supermarkets, and I feel OK about it.does this mean that you actually did or do slaughter?
or is this just an assumption that you tried out once?


OK, onto your question, "why isn't dogfighting OK too?"

First, see that we have different ways of honoring life and living in accordance with our values. It's a question of what we believe, (for instance, you apparently think it's OK to kill vegetables to eat them, but not animals) and living in accordance with our values.

"What's OK" is a function of the values of the majority of the members of a society. It's just another line, if its anything beyond strict fruitarianism.

Whereas there maybe 20% of society that find eating animals not OK, I would say maybe 99% of society would find instigating animal fights not OK.

So it's "not OK" by society's standards, because the vast majority of people think it's not OK (for a variety of reasons)Values or prejudice are what keeps this society together.

bullfighting, Ok in Spain not here
death penalty OK here, not in Europe
if you feel it is natural to eat animals,
then I would say cocks fights naturally and brutally
dog fights naturally untill one of them gives up

we've got a brain, we might as well use it
it seems that you are a sensible omnivore,
that's a start



.

[mykil]

I think I am sinking here, for the last few dayz I have been craving meat, I mean really bad. I was driving down around Sebastopol, thinking about getting something to eat and bam, corned beef hash just popped in my head. Mmmmm I was all over that. Then it dawned on me I don’t do that any more! It was really something. I drove past that restaurant and on to the next, the chicken curry my friends were eating the other night and the sautéed duck looked and smelt so fucking wonderful I almost caved. And this is no joke. Why after so long and I having these cravings? I was at pacific market getting a salad to sooth my cravings when the barbecue’s smell was just so incredibly overwhelming, I stopped and ate my salad there just for the smell. And to sooth my aching bones. All my friends tease me and tell me I am weak cause I won’t eat the same things they are eating. Am I weak? Will I cave? IS dog fighting next for me?
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
The wild life has made a tremendous come back in the last twenty years. There are not too many humans running around shooting animals, this in itself is a bad sign. Fucking turkeys everywhere, I have seen five foxes in the last few years, when I have never seen one in all my life around here. Bobcats terrorizing the little fawns trying to get a little milk from mommy. Mountain lions scaring the hell out of nuns! What’s next? They were talking about using DNA to bring back some wooly mammoths! Hmmmm! Maybe we can fight them! Now that would be some entertainment!!!!!! If we use only animals that have been extinct for tens of thousands of years is it illegal? No laws against that! Hell, by the time they make one they’ll be extinct once again! Did they have any really big dogs that have been extinct for a long time?
<o:p></o:p>
I need to eat a fucking steak and just quit all the whining I am going through!!! Anyone know what is wrong with me? Besides the normal that is everyday life prevalence? Why am I craving meat all of a sudden?
<o:p></o:p>
Hell just a few years ago I was sitting beside my campsite down at the river minding my own fucking business, when a game warden came down and arrested my ass, I was just eating a little spotted owl I had trapped for a little afternoon snack and he got all fucking upset, the next morning I was sitting in front of a judge with a bad fucking attitude. The judge asked me “just out of curiosity what did it taste like Boy”? I asked him politely “WHAT” he said “the spotted owl” I said “oh kind of in between a bald eagle and a California condor”

[AquaGyrl]

Not sure how seriously to take your comment about craving meat, but if it's true you might take a look at your diet. Is living off crackers, cheese, chips and salsa, caffeine, ice cubes, soda and the occasional bowl of clam chowder and salad meeting your nutritional requirements? Doubt it. And, BTW, you might not be craving protein since meat is more than just protein.

I've read that cravings can be psychological OR indicate a nutritional deficiency or both. Maybe what you're really craving are things you might previously experienced as "comfort food."

Could also be that 'time of the year'... I've been craving steak, too. Big, juicy, charbroiled steak with horseradish sauce on the side and mashed potatoes with a little bit of cream cheese, chopped scallions and sauted garlic mixed in. Arugula, goat cheese and fig salad. (DAMN YOU MYKIL!).

And each time I head out to enjoy this fictional meal I mentally revisit The Phiant's original post and think "ugh. maybe not today."



I think I am sinking here, for the last few dayz I have been craving meat, I mean really bad. ...

[ThePhiant]

I don't eat lamb (except on Passover



forgot to ask you this
you eat lamb on passover, I assume for religious reasons,
now does that mean you also support circumcision?

[Barry]

I'm not going to continue to participate in this thread, but I will answer this question.

There is no mitzvah (commandment) about eating lamb on Passover, however it is one of the traditional dishes served the the Passover sedar (ceremonial meal). It also ties to the story of passover, when lambs blood was used to mark the houses of jews so the Angel of Death would "passover" their houses as it smote the first borns of the Eygptians.

I figure since the lamb was sacrificed for its blood, why not eat it? :wink: Besides it gives me an excuse to eat my most favorite meat once a year.

BTW, I neglected to mention in my earlier post, that I don't eat lamb (except as above) or veal because I would not feel OK about slaughtering a lamb or calf. I think I would be OK slaughtering a grown cow, considering how much food it provides and that it had something of a life and that it wouldn't be something I'd be doing often.

Circumcision is a personal choice, either by the parents or the grown child. If I were not Jewish, i would not even consider it. I struggled with the choice before my children were born. It's a really tough call to break a 4,000 year tradition and the fundamental covenant between Jews and G-d. At that time, I probably would have reluctantly done it (I was spared though, since they were both girls!), but if I were to face the choice again (which won't happen!) I wouldn't do it. I would however support my daughter's decision should they eventually have sons.


forgot to ask you this
you eat lamb on passover, I assume for religious reasons,
now does that mean you also support circumcision?

[ChristineL]

Christine,

consciousness is more than just being aware.
truth is everywhere and sometimes especially in the statements from those we despise.
if we were to bring home a live chicken to eat for our supper, we would understand the sacrifice animals dare to live for.
as long as we are able to buy meat in plastic, there will always be a disconnect.
next time you feel like eating meat, buy the real thing, a live chicken, pig, cow, deer, sheep, fish or turkey.
I would love to read your introspection on your experience of how you prepared this animal for the ultimate sacrifice.


You're right, I haven't killed my own meat. However, I was not originally brought up in this country. My food did not come in plastic containers. During my summers at my grand-parents house the chicken on the table usually came from hen house. My grandmother did not do the slaughtering herself as that was left to people who specialized in doing this job. I would not want to do it myself as it would likely be a badly done job that would cause un-necessary pain to the animal. The same reason I don't kill my pets when they're at a point that allowing them to suffer any more would be heartless, but I do hold them lovingly and say good bye when the vet gives them the shot. Sorry to say, we're going to disagree. I believe people are omniverous just as I believe my pets (cats and a dog) are meat eaters. I'm also ok with wearing wool, angora, and cashmere. I'm also ok with wearing leather (only made from animals that are used for food). I'm not ok with fur and don't wear it. Raising animals for their luxurious pelts to indulge vanity as opposed to warmth doesn't sit well with me neither does the fact the meat isn't used to nourish anything. I and my pets will continue to eat meat (not very much in my case) and I am ok with it. I'm still not ok with the way some meat animals are treated and will continue to avoid certain foods. I do only drink organic milk, preferably from the Strauss Dairy where I know the cows are well treated.

I do have one question for you. If we all stop consuming meat, dairy and eggs; and maybe cease to use wool, cashmere and angora: What do we do with the cattle, sheep, goats, angora rabbits, turkeys and chickens? Do you know that if sheep aren't shorn every year they die smothered by their wool? Would you consider one grand slaughter a better solution than eating meat, dairy and eggs? They can't be put in the wild and who's going to keep them all fed? Of course, if we restore the wolf population.....they'd have easy to hunt food. I'm sure the mountain lions would enjoy this easy banquet too.

Growing cotton isn't exactly good for the environment and the government won't let us grow hemp which would be great for the environment. Wool and other fibers taken without killing the animals is probably better environmentally speaking. The processes used in making many synthetic fibers is highly poisonous and energy consuming.

Yes, I'm conscious and will continue to work at being aware of what I consume and where it comes from. I will continue to not eat veal. I'll continue to buy local produce to support local farmers. I'll also continue to boy cott Wal-Mart as they create their own clientelle as well as bear a lot of the responsibility for the manufacture of all those toxic Chinese products. There are a lot of businesses and industries I choose not to support. Thank you for making me think even more about where I draw lines. But......speaking of prejudices......those of us who choose to follow our omniverous natures could feel you're a bit prejudiced too. And....for the record I'm not a fan of bull fighting and am definitely against capital punishment.

[mykil]

All right enough with the small chitchat, what I really want to know is: <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Who's Grandma used to feed them frog legs once a month? even when they weren’t in season she would take then out of the freezer? Oh that would be me!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
How many of you have eaten Bear and can tell me what it really tastes like? Oh let me, greasy pork!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
ThePhiant I Almost can assure you that you have eaten Dog in your younger dayz Yes? You know the little thing that run around the yard go ruff ruff? Anyone else try a tad bit of dog when you were running around those foreign countries starving to death saying I could eat a horse? Which brings up my next Question<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
How many have eaten horse? I was at a friends house about two years ago chewing on his jerky, he started laughing at me and told me to read what I was eating, I couldn’t, it was in a foreign language, so he told me what it was ! LMAO!!! It was really tasty!!!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Anyone else got any awesome stories about strange things they have put in their mouths? With the exception of dog meat I have tried all of the above, yet I have eaten at enough Chinese and oriental restaurants to know anything is possible, a few times I swore it wasn’t chicken!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

[ChristineL]

All right enough with the small chitchat, what I really want to know is: <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Who's Grandma used to feed them frog legs once a month? even when they weren’t in season she would take then out of the freezer? Oh that would be me!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
How many of you have eaten Bear and can tell me what it really tastes like? Oh let me, greasy pork!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
ThePhiant I Almost can assure you that you have eaten Dog in your younger dayz Yes? You know the little thing that run around the yard go ruff ruff? Anyone else try a tad bit of dog when you were running around those foreign countries starving to death saying I could eat a horse? Which brings up my next Question<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
How many have eaten horse? I was at a friends house about two years ago chewing on his jerky, he started laughing at me and told me to read what I was eating, I couldn’t, it was in a foreign language, so he told me what it was ! LMAO!!! It was really tasty!!!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Anyone else got any awesome stories about strange things they have put in their mouths? With the exception of dog meat I have tried all of the above, yet I have eaten at enough Chinese and oriental restaurants to know anything is possible, a few times I swore it wasn’t chicken!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>


Yes, frog legs, as well as snails, rabbit and horse meat. All considered ok to eat in France where I was born and originally brought up. For sentimental reasons I don't care to put up for debate, I can't eat horse meat any more. No bear, dog or cat. Although it's possible some of my relatives ate cats during the Nazi occupation....it beat starving and it was frequently sold as rabbit. My early nutrition was heavy on dairy; yogurt, cheese, etc. I'm in my mid fifties and have not a trace of osteoporousis (not sure of spelling), neither does my 79 year old mother. I've known few truly healthy vegetarians and have noticed that it's extremely easy to be a junk food one.

[ThePhiant]

!!!




I do have one question for you. If we all stop consuming meat, dairy and eggs; and maybe cease to use wool, cashmere and angora: What do we do with the cattle, sheep, goats, angora rabbits, turkeys and chickens?
this is prety simple,
first of all, it is not going to happen overnight. when the demand for meat is lower, the supply will get lower
no grand slaughter needed at this time

Do you know that if sheep aren't shorn every year they die smothered by their wool?
this is news to me
are you saying there were no sheep before we figured out how to shear them????
I have no problem using wool for clothing
have you tried it though? cleaning the wool?


Growing cotton isn't exactly good for the environment and the government won't let us grow hemp which would be great for the environment. Wool and other fibers taken without killing the animals is probably better environmentally speaking. The processes used in making many synthetic fibers is highly poisonous and energy consuming.


I agree

Yes, I'm conscious and will continue to work at being aware of what I consume and where it comes from. I will continue to not eat veal. I'll continue to buy local produce to support local farmers. I'll also continue to boy cott Wal-Mart as they create their own clientelle as well as bear a lot of the responsibility for the manufacture of all those toxic Chinese products. There are a lot of businesses and industries I choose not to support. Thank you for making me think even more about where I draw lines. But......speaking of prejudices......those of us who choose to follow our omniverous natures could feel you're a bit prejudiced too. And....for the record I'm not a fan of bull fighting and am definitely against capital punishment.
thank you for your awareness
last week I almost bought some organic garlic at the super
untill I read the label, it said;
produce from China
that is were I draw the line, organic or not
NO FOOD FROM CHINA!!!!

[ThePhiant]

when I was growing up, our neighbours used to kill rabbits for meat and skins.
I can still hear the screams coming from next door.
I wasn't allowed to watch, but I did see the treestump with blood where they were killed.


Yes, frog legs, as well as snails, rabbit and horse meat. All considered ok to eat in France where I was born and originally brought up. For sentimental reasons I don't care to put up for debate, I can't eat horse meat any more. No bear, dog or cat. Although it's possible some of my relatives ate cats during the Nazi occupation....it beat starving and it was frequently sold as rabbit. My early nutrition was heavy on dairy; yogurt, cheese, etc. I'm in my mid fifties and have not a trace of osteoporousis (not sure of spelling), neither does my 79 year old mother. I've known few truly healthy vegetarians and have noticed that it's extremely easy to be a junk food one.

[ChristineL]

when I was growing up, our neighbours used to kill rabbits for meat and skins.
I can still hear the screams coming from next door.
I wasn't allowed to watch, but I did see the treestump with blood where they were killed.

Like many other "domesticated" animals, sheep were selectively bred to produce more and more wool. The original sheep, I'm sure, did not need to be shorn. Today's sheep will suffocate. I was wrong, it takes longer than a year of not being shorn, more like two years.

Where I came from, the local peasant woman who killed the rabbits was quick and efficient enough that there were no screams.

[mykil]

alright what about the bottled water once again, the newest addition, made it Texas by Coca Cola? Not me!

[ThePhiant]

Irrish playwright G.Bernard Shaw wrote a request into his will that his funeral procession include chickens, sheep, cows, an ox and an aquarium.
that would be the animals' way of thanking him for being a vegetarian.



Yes, frog legs, as well as snails, rabbit and horse meat. All considered ok to eat in France where I was born and originally brought up. For sentimental reasons I don't care to put up for debate, I can't eat horse meat any more. No bear, dog or cat. Although it's possible some of my relatives ate cats during the Nazi occupation....it beat starving and it was frequently sold as rabbit. My early nutrition was heavy on dairy; yogurt, cheese, etc. I'm in my mid fifties and have not a trace of osteoporousis (not sure of spelling), neither does my 79 year old mother. I've known few truly healthy vegetarians and have noticed that it's extremely easy to be a junk food one.

[mykil]

I want all the woman of wacco and all the others that know me to walk down in front of my coffin in nothing but their panties splashing water on their nipples and frolicking among themselves in pure exotic ecstasy for my funeral please!!!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[ThePhiant]

then who do you want crack your whip?


I want all the woman of wacco and all the others that know me to walk down in front of my coffin in nothing but their panties splashing water on their nipples and frolicking among themselves in pure exotic ecstasy for my funeral please!!!<o:p></o:p>

[mykil]

water baby will be cracking the whip and the will will state lulu gets double!

[ThePhiant]

water baby will be cracking the whip and the will will state lulu gets double!
I am flattered
will this be on the front or on the back only?

[mykil]

My answer is even a little bit tooo profound for the uncensored section of wacco soooo use your imagination sweet cheeks!!!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[ThePhiant]

oh my!
you would want that now!!!
or would you really??/


My answer is even a little bit tooo profound for the uncensored section of wacco soooo use your imagination sweet cheeks!!!<o:p></o:p>

[AquaGyrl]

Mykil? What the hell are you talking about? Do the words "safe" "sane" and "consensual" mean anything to you? Obviously not considering the number of intimate pictures you've shown me of the women you claimed to have fucked... not to mention the degrading way you speak of them (and women, in general) and the stories you tell.

Count me out, Barry. I'm embarrassed to be a member If I wanted to be a member of site where I could encounter sexual predators I'd join MySpace.

[mykil]

LMAO Water Baby I love you!!!!!

[ThePhiant]

Mykil, you are turning this into a catfight
you are nothing more than a LOL-Troll


LMAO Water Baby I love you!!!!!

[ThePhiant]

Agua,
before you leave, don't forget to vote for me!!!!


Mykil? What the hell are you talking about? Do the words "safe" "sane" and "consensual" mean anything to you? Obviously not considering the number of intimate pictures you've shown me of the women you claimed to have fucked... not to mention the degrading way you speak of them (and women, in general) and the stories you tell.

Count me out, Barry. I'm embarrassed to be a member If I wanted to be a member of site where I could encounter sexual predators I'd join MySpace.

[josan48]

I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS COMMENT.
Is there no compassion for animals? Do we think all animals are less than we are? Is there not a place for caring rather than killing?
Please, even though this posting is old, I had to respond. We must be kind to all beings.
Please.

why can't we breed dogs for dogfighting?
we breed cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, fish just so that we can kill them.
we allow people to put hooks in fish, and mutilate them and then throw them back in the water.
we can put 2 day old calves in plastic boxes so they can't move untill we are ready to eat them.
you can go to any hardware store buy torturous devices to kill mice, rats, ants, cockroaches etcetera.
so why can't we have dogs for fighting and make a little money along the way?
if we are in charge of all the animals, we should be able to do whatever we want.

[ThePhiant]

I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS COMMENT
Barry, maybe you should make it a requirement that people read ALL the posts first before they are allowed to respond
LOL


I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS COMMENT.
Is there no compassion for animals? Do we think all animals are less than we are? Is there not a place for caring rather than killing?
Please, even though this posting is old, I had to respond. We must be kind to all beings.
Please.

[Rucira]

why can't we breed dogs for dogfighting?
we breed cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, fish just so that we can kill them.
we allow people to put hooks in fish, and mutilate them and then throw them back in the water.
we can put 2 day old calves in plastic boxes so they can't move untill we are ready to eat them.
you can go to any hardware store buy torturous devices to kill mice, rats, ants, cockroaches etcetera.
so why can't we have dogs for fighting and make a little money along the way?
if we are in charge of all the animals, we should be able to do whatever we want.
heres what to do. lets use the phiant as bait for the dog fights. then we dont have to listen to all this blatent idiotic bull crap.

[Rucira]

I want all the woman of wacco and all the others that know me to walk down in front of my coffin in nothing but their panties splashing water on their nipples and frolicking among themselves in pure exotic ecstasy for my funeral please!!!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> I promise to first ice my nipples and then wear nothing at all.

[ThePhiant]

some witch you are!
can't you put a spell on me???


heres what to do. lets use the phiant as bait for the dog fights. then we dont have to listen to all this blatent idiotic bull crap.

[mykil]

The spell has alwayz been on you, you just havn't figured it out yet!



some witch you are!
can't you put a spell on me???

[ThePhiant]

I think the spell can't figure it out


The spell has alwayz been on you, you just havn't figured it out yet!

[mykil]

If you start walking around with you right hand on your forehead, stating over and over again "I AM SORRY" and appoint every "I AM SORRY" to a different person that you think is doing this world harm, the spell with be less inept to follow you to your grave and be forced to reside here on earth for eternity! ALSo and this part is the most important part, besure that when ever you think of me you state out load” MYKIL IS A REALLY CUTE GUY”<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I think the spell can't figure it out

[ThePhiant]

so I went to the farmers market, walking around saying the mantra you have given me I'M SORRY BUT MYKIL IS A REALLY CUTE GUY
and you wouldn't believe the hostile and nasty looks I had to endure,
do you think I got more than one spell hanging over me or do they think that me is you?


If you start walking around with you right hand on your forehead, stating over and over again "I AM SORRY" and appoint every "I AM SORRY" to a different person that you think is doing this world harm, the spell with be less inept to follow you to your grave and be forced to reside here on earth for eternity! ALSo and this part is the most important part, besure that when ever you think of me you state out load” MYKIL IS A REALLY CUTE GUY”<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

[mykil]

Hmmm I really don't remember telling you to THINK! AHHHH This is where you have been going astray here all this time, it's the THINKING FOR YOURFUCKINGSELF that seems to be getting you in all this fucking trouble!! HMMMMMM what can we do to break this particular THIKINGFORONESSELF spell you have? I havnt seen this one in a while, way before the republican party was privy to ones inner child and was in wee diapers did this spell come out of the fog and take over for a while. I think it might have been when I was a baby way back in the summer of love, ya that was it 67’ was the year and people were thinking freely and dancing all over and there was love and… hmmm this spell is a though one to pass over and there must be some THOUGHT involved in rebelling it out of ones own innersole, maybe a lobotomy is ion order for you my good friend, I will hold you hand and it won’t hurt a bit….


so I went to the farmers market, walking around saying the mantra you have given me I'M SORRY BUT MYKIL IS A REALLY CUTE GUY
and you wouldn't believe the hostile and nasty looks I had to endure,
do you think I got more than one spell hanging over me or do they think that me is you?

[ThePhiant]

all you think about is spanking!
a low bottom me?
mykil, you know better than that!


Hmmm I really don't remember telling you to THINK! AHHHH This is where you have been going astray here all this time, it's the THINKING FOR YOURFUCKINGSELF that seems to be getting you in all this fucking trouble!! HMMMMMM what can we do to break this particular THIKINGFORONESSELF spell you have? I havnt seen this one in a while, way before the republican party was privy to ones inner child and was in wee diapers did this spell come out of the fog and take over for a while. I think it might have been when I was a baby way back in the summer of love, ya that was it 67’ was the year and people were thinking freely and dancing all over and there was love and… hmmm this spell is a though one to pass over and there must be some THOUGHT involved in rebelling it out of ones own innersole, maybe a lobotomy is ion order for you my good friend, I will hold you hand and it won’t hurt a bit….

[mykil]

https://home.comcast.net/~junknjewels/images/troll.jpgFEELING BETTER YET!