God does not exist v. "I can't know" (Atheism v. Agnosticism)

[Willie Lumplump]

Arrrrrgh I am awaiting news of the development of halo correction lenses but I may have been dismissed in that regard as well. MindyEgad! A thousand pardons!!!!! I was distracted first by the holidays, then by my developing plans to be married, and finally by the power outage which drove me out of my home when the first storm hit (I've been in Half Moon Bay for almost a week). Thanks much for the reminder. I'll continue my search for the appropriate materials later this afternoon and let you know as soon as I find something interesting. Again, I apologize profusely.

[Willie Lumplump]

What about Russell's Paradox?As a biologist, I'm more familiar with Russell's viper than with Russell's Paradox. Nevertheless, since you asked, I'll share my impression that Russell's Paradox is a special type of self-referential statement (e.g., "This statement is false"). Self-referential statements are set-ups for paradoxes, and I wonder if they aren't examples of statements that satisfy the grammatical requirements of a complete sentence but have no meaning. On the other hand, Kurt Goedel made quite a production of them, didn't he? And he came to a rather sensational conclusion. So I don't know. I feel more at home with the viper.

[alanora]

Married, how exciting. Amazing you have a mind for anything else. I guess powerlessness hit you hard. Thank you for your continued efforts and I will be very understanding of your having many other things on your mind, and thanks again for the effort. Mindy


Egad! A thousand pardons!!!!! I was distracted first by the holidays, then by my developing plans to be married, and finally by the power outage which drove me out of my home when the first storm hit (I've been in Half Moon Bay for almost a week). Thanks much for the reminder. I'll continue my search for the appropriate materials later this afternoon and let you know as soon as I find something interesting. Again, I apologize profusely.

[Valley Oak]

I'm scratching my head here trying to figure out if Mindy's post, below, is a compliment or a cut to Willy. Or perhaps Mindy is expressing a sense of humor that is beyond my threshold of comprehension?

Thank you for your contribution, Mindy; it is very constructive (I think).

Edward



Married, how exciting. Amazing you have a mind for anything else. I guess powerlessness hit you hard. Thank you for your continued efforts and I will be very understanding of your having many other things on your mind, and thanks again for the effort. Mindy

[alanora]

I meant every word I said and am assuming you are projecting your feelings re the willie bird on to me, which I may or may not share. I had typed about feeling summarily dismissed and about the glasses which Ron had been contemplating fashioning to cut down glare while driving after dark, and I had not heard a word in quite some time, and wondered whether or not that was on going or calling him Lumpy had ruined things, or being illogical and indefensible had done so. I responded to his response, though that part is not visible to me at this time.... I was imagining myself in his shoes, or at least close- at a point of neutrality, and can't imagine being in love and planning wedding and out of the house and all and still remembering my glasses never mind someone else's who is not a real part of my life! Not real constructive. Hopefully understood by the lumpy one (feels like a term of endearment to me). Perhaps would have been better as a private reply, but in the feeling of community that had lately been engendered, I posted to the group. That said, I do enjoy a sense of irony or ludicrosity which may come through unintended..as well as a freedom to invent words and punctuation, grammar........it is a playful place in which I am blessed to live which may not be fathomed by most folk, I don't know. bisexual phobia perhaps? (joke)


I'm scratching my head here trying to figure out if Mindy's post, below, is a compliment or a cut to Willy. Or perhaps Mindy is expressing a sense of humor that is beyond my threshold of comprehension?

Thank you for your contribution, Mindy; it is very constructive (I think).

Edward

[MsTerry]

I don't think anything else is in his mind.
He allegedly has no problem finding women (his words), it is that he has a problem holding on to them. LOL


Married, how exciting. Amazing you have a mind for anything else.
Mindy

[Kermit1941]

I don't think anything else is in his mind.
He allegedly has no problem finding women (his words), it is that he has a problem holding on to them. LOL


Should we change the topic title for these personal interactions that are on miscellaneous topics?

Perhaps we should change the topic to "Miscellaneous" or "Interpersonal".

Does anyone care to revisit the original topic of agnosticism or atheism?

Kermit Rose < [email protected] >

[Frederick M. Dolan]

It might be reassuring if it were merely grammatically correct but meaningless, but that's not the case. There's a deep problem here. And Russell's solution to the paradox was utterly ad hoc and arbitrary. Like it or not, the foundations of Western logic have been shaken. That doesn't mean we can't continue to use them for practical purposes; it does mean we can't rely on them to bolster "foundational" metaphysical claims.


As a biologist, I'm more familiar with Russell's viper than with Russell's Paradox. Nevertheless, since you asked, I'll share my impression that Russell's Paradox is a special type of self-referential statement (e.g., "This statement is false"). Self-referential statements are set-ups for paradoxes, and I wonder if they aren't examples of statements that satisfy the grammatical requirements of a complete sentence but have no meaning. On the other hand, Kurt Goedel made quite a production of them, didn't he? And he came to a rather sensational conclusion. So I don't know. I feel more at home with the viper.

[mykil]

I have been avoiding this post for some time now. But I was wondering, has anyone found god yet?

[Kermit1941]

I have been avoiding this post for some time now. But I was wondering, has anyone found god yet?


Depends.

As long as we do not define the word "God", we can each think of our own preferred meaning of "God" every time we use the word in a sentence.

And since it's unlikely that any two distinct people will have the same meaning in mind, nothing is communicated. Any apparent agreement is only agreement that two different meanings of "God" have some properties in common.

If we define "God" to be the functioning of the Universe,
then of course God exists.

If we define "God" to be an invisible intangible being who is carefully plotting events of human society so that everything works out in the best possible way, then we are justified is saying such a "God" does not exist
because our world is not as well off as it could be.

There are many many ways in which we could define God such that anyone
accepting that definition would have to acknowledge existence of that God.

There are also many people who have logically untenable concepts of "God".

But it's ok to have logically untenable concepts of "God".

For we have logically untenable concepts of almost everything.

We humans have a very weak understanding of our world.

But we continue to build our knowledge, and gradually, come to a more and more complete understanding.

It might even be possible that in some distant future, our descendants
will completely understand the logical foundation of the universe.

Kermit Rose < [email protected] >

[AnnaLisaW]

I have been avoiding this post for some time now. But I was wondering, has anyone found god yet?
Yes, but not on the internet.
-ALW

[Sonomamark]

You should try the Assembly of God--they've been trying to put one together for quite some time now.

Many tiny parts, apparently. :):



SM


I have been avoiding this post for some time now. But I was wondering, has anyone found god yet?

[Braggi]

You should try the Assembly of God--they've been trying to put one together for quite some time now.
SM


Now that is funny! I never knew what they were up to. I'm not surprised it's taking a long time.

-Jeff

[Valley Oak]

I fail to see the humor. Is it a hidden joke?

Edward


Now that is funny! I never knew what they were up to. I'm not surprised it's taking a long time.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

Edward, you should take a pun appreciation course. Assembly of God. They are trying to put one together. Many small pieces. Get it? :):

-Jeff

[Valley Oak]

Laughing My Ass Off! Now I got it!

I looked up the course catalogs for Santa Rosa Junior College and also for Sonoma State University but I couldn't find any pun appreciation classes.
:-(

Edward


Edward, you should take a pun appreciation course. Assembly of God. They are trying to put one together. Many small pieces. Get it? :):

-Jeff

[lynn]

HA!...Pretty good!...


You should try the Assembly of God--they've been trying to put one together for quite some time now.

Many tiny parts, apparently. :):



SM

[sd gross]

Q. WHAT DOES A DYSLEXSIC AGNOSTIC INSOMNIAC DO AT NIGHT?
(Ans. Below)

I thought Belushi & Akroyd "assembled" Her in "The Blues Brothers"
Then, there are the "Witnesses"....
:FlakeyFoont::FlakeyFoont::FlakeyFoont:

Jehovah's Witnesses

Oh we're Jehovah's witnesses
we've seen him come and go
We watch him shop at Safeway
Sit behind him at the show
We've seen him at the Senior Center
Where he helps serve meals
Or sometimes fishing with the kids
(depending how he feels)
Oh we're Jehovah's witnesses
We wish you were one too
Episcopalian's ain't so bad
Can't help if you're a Jew
The Catholics have their rituals
And Moslems pray each hour
But we think you'll change your mind
If you'll just read Watchtower
We've got some real nice Kingdom Halls
That's where we all assemble
Don't have to be the sharpest tack
It's mostly elemental
Our music isn't all that great
(we do a lot of hummin') but
Jehovah keeps us in his sight
I think he saw us comin'

A. SHE LIES AWAKE WONDERING IF THERE REALLY IS A DOG.
:puppy1:
Attached Thumbnails (click for larger view)

[scorpiomoon]

God is something I remembered before I forgot. Dwelling in god if it's inside yourself is good. If it harms others it is bad. Good Orderly Direction. There is no god if it means killing indians for money or oil or trees. Unfortunately the idea that Jesus hung on a cross of wood, dooms trees somehow, therefore, us. Religion is twisted thinking which we all love in our DNA, herein lies the debate. However twisted, someday we will find the fourteen or so GOD genes which somehow adapt us to survive. It couldn't be a volcano!! Instead, it's GOD!!! hahahaha Sorry. God is WAY too busy to worry about this hell hole. He has the whole big BANG of a universe to contend with right. I SAY he exists but like a bad waiter, he fails to show up to leave the check. You leave the money on the table thoughtfully , as he is GOD and you pray he doesn't chase you out the door. And don't forget to tip, well, or Tsunami ------ hahahahahaha