Weeding ThePhiant

[Barry]

I've just come in from my first weeding of my garden this year and I must say that ThePhiant sure strikes me as a weed that needs to be removed from the garden we are growing here.

I have also been impressed with "her" ability to walk the line "between satire and insult, between playful teasing and veiled demeaning" . Well this time she fell off. I'm sure she can defend her deliberately ambiguous remarks but I'm not going to play that game.

Thanks to Miles for so thoughtfully and eloquently laying bare the troll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll) aspect of The Phiant's participation here. And thanks to ThePhiant for so clearly embodying it on the thread Hostile New Age Takeover of Yoga (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19424), as well as What Men Want (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=26262#post26262) and Gender Differences & the Scientific Method (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18986).

I see that Zeno has compared ThePhiant's presence here to that of a jester (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=26665#post26665), who "use[es] humor to mock and joke, who could speak without causing offense". However ThePhiant has offended many, including me, and rather than making use of "jokes, songs and dance", ThePhiant trades in jabs and taunts. Whereas my favorite fool, Mulla Nasrudin, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulla_Nasrudin) brings "the little extra which brings the consciousness of the potential mystic a little further on the way to realization", ThePhiant brings the little extra that brings the consciousness further away from realization.

I don't want to put the community through a whole vote process although I value the democratic process. However, if 10 people want to speak up in favor of ThePhiant staying by 11:59pm Tuesday, we'll have a vote from Wednesday morning through 11:59pm Thursday.

Barry



Dear Miles,

you mean to tell me I can be offensive to YOU without even trying???
I had no idea it was YOU who really wanted to perform circus acts and parlor tricks.
when I see the word "MAD" in somebody's name, I get all mushy inside and it make me shiver in my Wellingtons.

the bold lines below are mine, of course


Everybody,

I just replied privately to "The Phiant". My email was emphatic but I do not think it violated the boundaries of respectful communication. And since I strongly believe in candor, upon further consideration I've decided to report it here.
Actually your email was pathetic and full of cowardice. if you have something to say, do it here. don't hide behind private emails to call somebody a name.

The gist of my message was that I do not take anything he/she writes seriously and consider his/her contributions to this board to fit the definition of an internet trolls behavior.

I've held back my conclusion* about him/her from this board both publicly and privately, but when someone insults me, it is my practice to firmly respond. and how exactly where you insulted to justify your strong, manly response??????????
When someone consistently insults others, I note it, but leave it to them as rational, responsible, self-directed adults to defend themselves. Or to not defend themselves, as they choose.

* A conclusion I came to after only two or three of his/her first contributions quite a few months ago. this shows how clever you are!

I've wondered about "The Phiant"s gender, but he/she has been very cagy about not revealing that information, as well as pretty much all other personal details about him/her-self. It has been an interesting thought exercise for me to idly ponder. And I've concluded that it really doesn't matter. once again, this shows how clever you are
In my fifty years of existence I've observed and/or experienced hostility by both men and women, as well as affection and comradery. So I see it as an example of how anyone can be a negative force on others. And Bog knows, I've been one at times. And a few more times I've been unjustly accused of being a jerk, or worse. So it's been a good opportunity for introspection as well.

There is one area of behaviour that I will compliment "The Phiant" on. flattery will get YOU nowhere, you silly MadMan That is his/her ability to stay consistently and carefully in the grey zone between satire and insult, between playful teasing and veiled demeaning. It is a true performance in the art of.... well, if I say what I think any more directly I would probably be guilty of violating the boundaries on this board that do not permit direct personal attacks. Perhaps I've already done so here, but if I have it is in defensive response, not by overt, unprovoked initiation of hostilities.I told, you, you are one clever MAN,
and how, and what was it again that hurt your feelings, you silly MadMan?

And should anyone conclude that anything I have written here is unacceptably hostile, I would like to note that if there were no limits on expression here, my response would be much more succinct, to the point and highly scatological.
Yep, a little self- knowledge doesn't hurt
What you have just read from me represents a conscious exercise in self-control and diplomacy. And yes, I could probably work more on my skills as a non-violent activist and communicator. But that folks, is a much longer story.


"All we doin' is defenden"
Uhm, what are you defending????
I thought I should asks before I REALLY respond

love

Lulu
(I am sorry, I looked it up, but my name is not a dutch swear word.
it was a nice try by the ZenoPhobic professor)

Linton Kwesi Johnson, in a line from his song "The SPG is'a Murdarah"
The SPG is short for the Special Patrol Group, Britain's tactical riot squads.


Have a good night!

"Mad" er than usual Miles

[ThePhiant]

well Barry,

I don't want to be part of an anti freedom of speech movement that doesn't want me as a member.
I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

a grouchy 'ThePhiant' LuLu






I've just come in from my first weeding of my garden this year and I must say that ThePhiant sure strikes me as a weed that needs to be removed from the garden we are growing here.

I have also been impressed with "her" ability to walk the line "between satire and insult, between playful teasing and veiled demeaning" . Well this time she fell off. I'm sure she can defend her deliberately ambiguous remarks but I'm not going to play that game.

Thanks to Miles for so thoughtfully and eloquently laying bare the troll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll) aspect of The Phiant's participation here. And thanks to ThePhiant for so clearly embodying it on the thread Hostile New Age Takeover of Yoga (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19424), as well as What Men Want (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=26262#post26262) and Gender Differences & the Scientific Method (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18986).

I see that Zeno has compared ThePhiant's presence here to that of a jester (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=26665#post26665), who "use[es] humor to mock and joke, who could speak without causing offense". However ThePhiant has offended many, including me, and rather than making use of "jokes, songs and dance", ThePhiant trades in jabs and taunts. Whereas my favorite fool, Mulla Nasrudin, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulla_Nasrudin) brings "the little extra which brings the consciousness of the potential mystic a little further on the way to realization", ThePhiant brings the little extra that brings the consciousness further away from realization.

I don't want to put the community through a whole vote process although I value the democratic process. However, if 10 people want to speak up in favor of ThePhiant staying by 11:59pm Tuesday, we'll have a vote from Wednesday morning through 11:59pm Thursday.

Barry


[/quote]

[Barry]

well Barry,

I don't want to be part of an anti freedom of speech movement that doesn't want me as a member.
I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

a grouchy 'ThePhiant' LuLu
I'm sorry, Lulu, I was not aware you sent in any money. I most certainly will refund it to you.

[Chris Murray]

One vote in favor of The Phiant not being exorcised. When I come across postings from people who I find boorish or boring, I just don't bother to read what they have to say. As a lurker, rather than active poster, I haven't had the occasion to be insulted yet, but perhaps now's my opportunity. Should I be quaking in my wellies LuLu?

[alanora]

Perhaps a special spot for those who wish to engage in sarcasm and one upmanship is in order? For those who value the cleverly worded cutting remark? Ex east coasters? Verbal jousting was something I enjoyed at one time, however now my thrust is figuring out how to be more present and authentic and kind. mindy

[MsTerry]

Hi All,

'Weeds are plants whose benefits haven't been fully discovered'

I don't remember who said this, but I think it even applies to this case.

Humor is a personal taste and when someone as educated as professor Zeno can see the function of the little bite a Court jester can bring, then who am I to disagree.
I think Mad Miles went way over board, ThePhiant is making fun of Yoga not him when he talks about trim, fit women doing parlor tricks. I guess she thinks that they are all doing circus acts (look at the photo Miles posted, I can't do that)
so then Miles when on an attack and thePhiant responded to that in a sarcastic way.
With Juggledude thePhiant exposed the hypocritical way Royce lectures others, and not himself.
I understand that Barry wants to support his friends, but can we laugh at ourselves every now and again?
ThePhiant seems to expose some raw nerves, we can learn from that if we want to too.

T

[nurturetruth]

I feel that "WEEDS" were put on this Earth for one reason or another ...and if they grow tall enough.... other vibration animals...such as cats, deer, etc...LOVE to take refuge and either play or sleep in them!!

Course, I practice "plucking the weeds" from my beautiful divine garden when they get too much! WHO WISHES WEEDS TO TAKE OVER A BEAUTIFUL GROWING , EVOLVING GARDEN?

For me, it is learning to be aware of "what i want and what my needs are".

WE ALL CAN LEARN plenty from this experience!!

I hold much GRATITUDE to both "THE PHIANT" and MAD Miles for being vulnerable enough to share their experience and feelings with the community. WE ALL HAVE SO MUCH TO LEARN!!

I TOO am a BIG supporter of FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION...( healthy expression that is!) as well as accepting others "where they are at" on their Spiritual Karmic Journey......

**** "ANYTHING THAT BOTHERS ME IS ONLY a PROBLEM WITHIN. ONLY I CAN EXPERIENCE IT, AND ONLY I CAN CORRECT IT" ******

NOW-- IT IS NOW OUR POSITION as A COMMUNITY ...To come to a resolution!! :grouphug:

One that holds "whatis in the best interest for all"
((i personally hold gratitude to ALL the "boogie unpleasant" teachers who have come my way! Without their presence, I would NOT have been able to grasp "the gift of the lesson being taught")))

One solution that comes to mind: to have a distinct category for those wishing to act out "RANT & RAVE" type of vibration.
People NEED to feel acceptance and not rejected or punished for "where they are at". ALL EMOTIONS ARE OK TO FEEL.

However, an act of HOSTILITY is NEVER in "THE BEST INTEREST OF ALL" and should be handled with care and consensus.

((I personally just don't open my doors to such beings. I choose NOT to read their postings or engage in POWER STRUGGELS. I send the be-ing a blessing and that is that.))

Perhaps a "3 strikes/chances and your out" policy? or..

~~ "sitting it out - on probation policy" ...where the user is blocked for a certain time period ..but not BANNED.

From reading the posts between Barry and "DA-FIANCE"...

It appears that "the phiant" HAS chosen to ask for his MEMBERSHIP MONEY back!!!
If this is a true feeling for "the PHIANT" .....then it does show that "the phiant" would rather NOT take the needed actions to be part of a "consciously awakening " geared community and that perhaps an online community such as "Craigslist" may be more appropriate for "THE PHIANT's" energy field.

WE ARE ALL PERFECTLY IMPERFECT. The more we can love our own imperfections/mistakes----and simply learn and evolve from them.... the easier we can accept others for WHERE they are "AT" on their spiritual karmic journey.

THANK GOODNESS.. "The Phiant" as well as "Mad Miles"..were vulnerable enough to show the community "WHERE" they are both at.

THIS IS A GREAT GIFT TO THE COMMUNITY OF WACCO TO ASK THEMSELVES, "WHAT DO WE WANT WACCO TO BE??"

.. .. "WHAT ARE THE FEELINGS-NEEDS" regarding WACCO community and "WHAT TYPE OF ENERGY DO WE WISH TO CREATE , SUPPORT and PORTRAY?


:heart: :yinyang: :heart:

[nicofrog]

I find it amazing how people can have time to sit and type discuss on computer just reading 40% of it(No I did NOT Count the words) is more than I can fit in.
ah The INTELLECT how we flex it like a muscle.There are some people who LIVE for debate to be right and wrong is bigger than love itself!
GENDER DIFFERENCE IS AN ILLUSION WE CREATE TO KEEP US APART
Just like so many other isms. religions etc. miss or mister De Phiant
just loves to lock wits and befuddle everyone with a seemingly NEW viewpoint that is as old as anarchy.
My vote on kicking her ,him, or it off is why bother,if something is off the wall, responding to it is like throwing gasoline on a fire you want to put out.
Want to be hurt and outraged and bitter about society? just imagine being a hermaphrodite for awhile.Want to stop a fight? leave the bar.
Love ya all, my dear parents were argumentaholics. I'm a reconciliateaholic.
HEY I vote we start a new debate on weeds! there truly are no weeds
even poison oak has its friends! all weeds open up soil create canopy, and when composted make free humus for the soil! any patch of soil covered with "weeds" is healthier than a bare patch more likely to contain soil builders like worms etc.
Nico :2cents:
So elePhient.. elfrogo here celebrates your defiance,but your vicious references and spiteful smirks are unattractive and make me think you young and careless or nihilistic. I feel sad when I read that.and I'm not sure the community has much to Learn in being compassionate or sympathetic or forgiving of that,perhaps you could explain why the issue, or the argument form, or science is such a big "Button" for you, or do you just truly delight in hiding behind a screen and being as obnoxious as you want,like a hidden superpower.wow that must feel good,I hope you have some friends somewhere,cause you're not making a bunch here to fast.
ah so having said all that here I am probably feeding the same stupid fire
Oh well that's addiction for ya! beautiful day, let's get out there and see some faces! LOVE
:heart:

[Juggledude]

I find it amazing how people can have time to sit and type discuss on computer just reading 40% of it... miss or mister De Phiant just loves to lock wits and befuddle everyone with a seemingly NEW viewpoint that is as old as anarchy.
My vote on kicking her ,him, or it off is why bother,if something is off the wall, responding to it is like throwing gasoline on a fire you want to put out.
...
So elePhient.. elfrogo here celebrates your defiance,but your vicious references and spiteful smirks are unattractive and make me think you young and careless or nihilistic. I feel sad when I read that.and I'm not sure the community has much to Learn in being compassionate or sympathetic or forgiving of that,perhaps you could explain why the issue, or the argument form, or science is such a big "Button" for you, or do you just truly delight in hiding behind a screen and being as obnoxious as you want,like a hidden superpower.wow that must feel good,I hope you have some friends somewhere,cause you're not making a bunch here to fast.
ah so having said all that here I am probably feeding the same stupid fire
Oh well that's addiction for ya! beautiful day, let's get out there and see some faces! LOVE
:heart:


Well said, Nico.

MsTerry, thanks for your bluntness and fresh perspective. I do see the hypocrisy in my recent post to dePhiant on the what women want thread, in which I stooped to base name calling even while touting some moral high ground. For that, I apologize, to DePhiant as well as to the community.

I'm a great champion of freedom of speech, and as such would hate to see censorship in a forum such as this, but to run the risk of hypocrisy again, I am also sorely troubled by the negativity and spite that seems to stem from the direction of thePhiant. I would welcome an honest discussion among members of this community I have chosen to be part of, yet I do not categorize the sniping from behind a mask of anyonimity that thePhiant engages in to be discussion, or to be building community.

I appreciate the alternatives suggested by magicnrgy, and I'd like to add one more...

If an obviously anonymous user reaches "probationary" status or otherwise comports themselves so as to be at least nuisance and at worst a destructive element, then require them to step forth with a genuine identity from which to continue their particular brand of eloquence. For me, this is not a game, this is an aspect of my life in which I am vesting part of my energy and soul. To have such vulnerability toyed with and attacked from a fictitious vector is difficult and painful, even if it's only because of my personal attachment and the reality with which I approach this venue.

I am willing to honestly view myself, and thank the community for the opportunity of perspective. ThePhaint, if you are being real, if you do care and or wish to continue discussion, please, step up, let us know who you are, and take responsibility for your own actions, so that we may continue to grow and learn in an atmosphere of mutual respect and consideration. If you are playing some deviant mind game, pulling a "troll" and poking the anthill of Wacco with the stick of your vituperous wit, without being willing to take actions you would take face to face, well, then, please, go find some other community to do it in.

Royce

[mykil]

Well Geez Guyz; if it is a women, I haven’t even dated her yet! Sorry! As One Conscience, that wouldn’t make her/him not a weed but a thought pattern that we have within us all. I vote that we vote, that way my Conscience will be clear!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[ThePhiant]

Dude,

Even though it comes out sideways, (and after all this you still can't or won't spell ThePhiant correctly), apologies accepted.

if I had as much free time, as you apparently do have, I too would right (pun intended, I might as well spell it out) long evocative and eloquent epistles.
two things seem to be getting in the way of your comfort zone.
alleged anonymity and alleged gender transcendence
WE ARE ALL ANONYMOUS!
do you know the girl at Hole Foots any better than me because she has a name tag?
you have my name. what is it you really want? A date?

just look at it this way, you can thank ThePhiant for having such wonderful
insights into your self by being confronted with yourself in a most unexpected way.
this doesn't HAVE to be about you, it can be about your ideas............




Well said, Nico.

MsTerry, thanks for your bluntness and fresh perspective. I do see the hypocrisy in my recent post to dePhiant on the what women want thread, in which I stooped to base name calling even while touting some moral high ground. For that, I apologize, to DePhiant as well as to the community.

I'm a great champion of freedom of speech, and as such would hate to see censorship in a forum such as this, but to run the risk of hypocrisy again, I am also sorely troubled by the negativity and spite that seems to stem from the direction of thePhiant. I would welcome an honest discussion among members of this community I have chosen to be part of, yet I do not categorize the sniping from behind a mask of anyonimity that thePhiant engages in to be discussion, or to be building community.

I appreciate the alternatives suggested by magicnrgy, and I'd like to add one more...

If an obviously anonymous user reaches "probationary" status or otherwise comports themselves so as to be at least nuisance and at worst a destructive element, then require them to step forth with a genuine identity from which to continue their particular brand of eloquence. For me, this is not a game, this is an aspect of my life in which I am vesting part of my energy and soul. To have such vulnerability toyed with and attacked from a fictitious vector is difficult and painful, even if it's only because of my personal attachment and the reality with which I approach this venue.

I am willing to honestly view myself, and thank the community for the opportunity of perspective. ThePhaint, if you are being real, if you do care and or wish to continue discussion, please, step up, let us know who you are, and take responsibility for your own actions, so that we may continue to grow and learn in an atmosphere of mutual respect and consideration. If you are playing some deviant mind game, pulling a "troll" and poking the anthill of Wacco with the stick of your vituperous wit, without being willing to take actions you would take face to face, well, then, please, go find some other community to do it in.

Royce

[Sonomamark]

Barry, I support your position. As someone who has been very careful when involved in controversy to stick to the issue and avoid personal characterizations and other fallacies, I see this person as clearly being unable or unwilling to play nicely with others on the Internet. I have not seen any indication that her participation is anything other than an arrant disregard for minimal community behavior standards.

No freedoms are absolute. All are tempered by the agreements we must make together in order to get along and not simply be in a selfish, anarchic free-for-all. Just as it is not a legitimate free speech right to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre, it is a well-recognized Internet phenomenon that some people just don't get that they are communicating with real people when typing at their computers. They say and do things that they would never do to our faces--at least, I hope they wouldn't.

Such deliberately rude, disruptive and unproductive individuals subtract from, rather than adding to, online discourse. It's an unfortunate part of your role as a moderator to keep our playground bully-free. I think you've been more than tolerant.

As to the idea that "weeds have a role", 'weeds are plants whose benefits haven't been fully discovered' &c--actually, no. A weed by definition is a plant which has a deleterious impact on the desired state of the area where it grows. In a garden, people may have a strongly controlling vision of how they want their garden to be, resulting in a strict "no tolerance" policy. In a wildlife area, conservation biologists define a weed as a plant species which grows aggressively and forces out native plants that fit better in local food webs, reducing biodiversity, which is the primary health indicator of an ecosystem.

If we were infected with the tuberculosis bacillus, no one would say "we shouldn't take antibiotics because 'the bacillus has a role' or 'its benefits haven't been discovered yet'." We would take the antibiotics because their side effects are far less severe than living with tuberculosis.

This is also true here: the cure has less damaging impact than letting the status quo roll on. I have seen Internet discussion communities become forums where all reasonable, measured, civil participants have been driven away by people who write posts like ThePhiant's. Exclusion of trolls is a basic function that must be performed in order for a forum to remain civil and productive. It's unfortunate, but it's true in every human society: those who are deliberately abusive and disruptive must have some kind of sanction, or standards of behavior are removed, violence escalates, and security plummets.

SonomaMark

[Lisa G]

My quick thought on this: Censorship can be the start of a dangerous and slippery slope.

over all, I think it is generally in the best interests to ignore when ever possible. of course if one was physically attacking someone of any species who is unable to defend them selves then yes, respond.

But how does one begin to define what is disruptive? defensive?
on every forum it seems there will be some who are rude, and deliberately provoke others, and those who think what I find is offensive is humor.

I would like to say that putting any down for their beliefs, culture, heritage, (you all know the list) is when it is not OK, but then when am I in danger of applying censorship myself?

I am offended by hunting. Should that mean people cannot talk about hunting?
I just suggest we all be careful of the censorship.

I choose not to read any of the related posts. Just had to put that out there.
Lisa

[79paul]

I vote we allow the Phiant to stay, in all his/her incarnations and ambiguities.
I follow a lot of these threads, though fortunately I have not been subjected to the private emails that apparently get nasty and personal.
If we want to have a discussion with only people who we already agree with, why bother??

[Carl]

I urge tolerance as far as it can reasonably go. And then offer second chances for those who express the desire for them. But in this case, censorship, hmmm, maybe, maybe not.

I have to remind us of a time about two months ago, Christmas Season, when someone posted a picture of the hindquarters of a dog wherein there was perceived to be an image of a cloaked man who purportedly appeared like the classic image of Jesus Christ. Well, this was utter horsepuckey! Or dog poopy! Like so much other trash that entertains us and makes us think of the total oddness of this universe existing in the first place!

How do we lose the sense of humor? Well I did. When I saw that there were those who objected to the picture of the dog's ass being on view with a holy relic suggested in its form. And then these who objected were belittled by the rest of the community of WACCOBB. Yes, and this belittling was supported by Barry, himself.

I say, let us all show more tolerance for the multitude of our points of view. Holiness does manifest in the very weeds that seem to choke out our lawn and garden. These very weeds are the proof that life is vital and growing and our objection to them and the work we do to eliminate them from our area is how we cultivate our own sense of self. This is Holy Work. Yet, remember that when we ban a life form from our space, that being remains a part of the whole, contributing the dissonance that spices up our life and adds vitality. Trolls and all, we are ugly ducklings, honking like geese for dinner. I think someone said it best when they suggest, Do Not Feed The Trolls.

And here is my personal opinion on Mad Miles' post about lovely Yoga practitioners. I think Yoga and Tantra are being well served by the images of beautiful, healthy people who portray the benefits of such. And Circus stunts have their place in a class of Hatha Yoga, or T'ai Chi or Karate, Break Dancing, Cirque du Soleil as well as at the Nude Bar of your choice. There are so many ways to celebrate our being, let us be happy about it.

Carl.

[Tinque]

I have to say I have VERY mixed feelings about this whole topic ! I feel the need to tell a story , that is TRUE , and may seem meaningless to most , but important to me . My father and I have never been close , to say it lightly, and while I was visiting him in Colorado , ignoring all the painful thoughts of all his unkind words and gestures , I went for a walk in the glorious meadow behind his house and with much joy picked a gorgeous bouquet of thistle and other weeds in which I personally thought was extremely wonderful and all my fathers comments to me were that they were just a bunch of weeds. I have never ever forgotten this and I was absolutely devastated ! What is the point of me expressing this ? I just felt it appropriate. I very much back Barry on any decision he makes. I , for one , was put in a very UNCOMFORTABLE situation recently and Barry stood by my side , NOT ON MY SIDE , just by it , and I feel I was worthy of that , and I felt a little bit of that feeling when you have friends and family by your side and you feel safe . I am not sure about the judgment call on this matter , except that life
is full of EVERY TYPE OF OPINION and we should , in my opinion, learn and expand our horizons with every oppurtunity given With thanks and gratitude for my participation , I thank you Sincerely Tinque....!

[fluteman]

My reply here is going to more neutral in nature, yet if situations such as this are best served by honesty, then I'll do my best to share where I'm coming from with an open heart.

I'm mainly a lurker on this forum, but I actually used to be a moderator at a forum that had a 7 digit post count, which was one gigantic, crazy and chaotic place to spend one's internet time. I also served as a moderator at another forum that was about Wacco's size or slightly larger when I first joined, but soon grew by epic proportions to become one huge online community to be reckoned with. I've seen the afore mentioned and other forums start small and humble with the best of intentions, and eventually as the community grows and more and more people join, problems will arise due to people who seem to have nothing better to do than harass others on the internet. We're in the midst of a new frontier with this online world, and the concept of being able to be an a**hole with almost total anonymity is something that evidently appeals to quite a few folks.

My personal take on this matter is going to very blunt, to the point, and may possibly offend some people, but I can only speak (type) how I feel about this as it hits close to home:

First off, we all need to remove the word "troll" from our online slang repositories. When any person joins an online community and displays hurtful, racial, slanderous or otherwise overtly negative posts, they are in most all cases, screaming out for attention. Everyone here knows this (even if we forget at times, especially if we are hooked in)...and these unfortunate folks love nothing better than to "stir up the calmness of the pond"...and there's really only one way of effectively handing such a situation before it turns into a complete and utter mess:

1) Warn the person immediately, and ask them to apologize, preferably publicly to the offended party. If they refuse, then they should be banned either for a specific amount of time, or permanently (I prefer the latter).

2) If they own up to their actions (who here hasn't put our foot in our mouth more than a few times in life?), and show to be of good heart, then let them stay and be part of the community.

3). Move on. Life is too short for online drama (or any drama, for that matter)!

There is a time for a group hug, and a time for an honest kick in the rear. Abusive people will NEVER change their behavior if we keep giving them "Get Out of Jail Free" cards. And while this may sound strange to many people, the biggest and truest "Trolls" are usually either the moderators, forum creators or people who helped start the forum, not the angry 13 year olds who have ADD. I speak from much experience here, sadly.

That all being said, this is Barry's forum, I've only met him in person once and my impression both in person and online is that he's one helluva nice guy. I applaud him for taking a stand and not wishing to tolerate the kind of behavior that we've seen here. If an online community is to grow, it needs new blood, but who in their right mind wants to be a part of any community that's full of rude, insensitive people?

I know that West County has lots of good down to Earth folks who haven't forgotten how to love, so brothers and sisters, come on out of the woods and let's spread some positive vibes for a change! I know not everyone has become like this interesting gentleman:

https://www.myspace.com/angryhippy

-Erick

[nurturetruth]

It is sooo refreshing and encouraging to hear the community offering all their feelings, insights and suggestions!

I am aware there are those that do not engage or enjoy "dancing" and may not be able to relate to this, :hmmm:

But this conversation has been like a "dance" for me and from the Observers' point of view.. :dancing2: :dstkman:

I can't help but to wonder what this energy would look like on a dance floor right now!! (giggles ....:):)

I usually show up at a "dance" NOT "seeking" any particular vibration to dance "with" or "merge with". I go alone and enjoy myself around other vibrations.

Usually , I am comfortable dancing with only myself and being in tune with my body and feeling the rise of the vibration and releasing or whatever needs to be felt/processed/moved..

Then, there are dancers I choose NOT to dance with. There are dancers I consciously choose to stay far away from on the dance floor because their energy is too intense or free form or perhaps structured /evolved for "where I am at".

And though my body gets taken over by the music and intense vibration of a "group of so many different vibrations coming together and dancing on the same dance floor together"....
I don't seem to loose my awareness of what type of ENERGY I enjoy dancing with or around. and...

I don't loose my awareness of those around me and hold a sense of respect for their space and energy. (not to bump into them, or "step on any toes" ...so to speak!)

It is my intent to add just a "little lightness" to the topic we are discussing...

:heart:

:dancinggirl:

[Leslie]

I am responding to the idea of barring someone from the list serve.

I TOTALLY disagree with barring ThePhiant


what ever happened to our First Ammendment rights..??

So what if someone writes something you don't like. it's just a discussion don't keep reading or don't respond.
As far as I can tell the people involved are enjoying themselves in these conversations.
I don't agree with personally slamming someone in any way in this public way but that isn't the point of these discussions about yoga or differenciations between male and female traits..

I TOTALLY disagree with barring ThePhiant because this person is stirring some feelings up.. do not barr this person from posts.
The guidelines are stated about how to treat each other if we can respect each other we can have arguements
" the agree the disagree"
no harm done
treat each other as you wish to be treated

I remember times when others have done the same stirrings and now see that they are seen as a valuable contributor. Won't mention names.

I could think about a lot of other things to fight about or for.

Try fighting against steroid use in young people.. how many suicides are showing up because young men are eating steroids.. How about where are the good role models???, the good heroes in our society???.. how about good heros in our community?

anyway I don't want to see anyone being barred because they have a difference of opinion and stimulate discussions even if a little heated.. no harm done.

Leslie

[Sara S]

I'm with you, here, although there are a lot of good thoughts on No Censorship, too. I love reading such intelligent and thoughtful comments, though not mean, nasty stuff.

I do think that anyone who uses more than two colors or emoticons in a post should be censored.

Sara S.


I've just come in from my first weeding of my garden this year and I must say that ThePhiant sure strikes me as a weed that needs to be removed from the garden we are growing here. ...

[rodeogal]

My vote is to ban her from Wacco. I've not seen anything positive from this person, and have been personally attacked by her in the What Women Want thread. I actually have a lot to say here, I just won't participate for fear of being personally attacked by Lulu again. My life is challenging enough........I don't need to be attacked online, too. I enjoy Wacco. I've read all the replys here and can see all different points of view. Yet why would I voluntarily subject myself to vicious attacks for posting my viewpoint? I'm only adding my 2 cents here to help get her off here. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a compassionate person, and usually the first to offer support to anyone hurting. But I have a really hard time offering anything to someone who continually throws darts at an entire community. In all honesty, I feel sorry for this person. Obviously her life is so sad that she has to throw darts and ANONIMOUSLY. I still choose not to participate in posting if she stays.

Sorry, but that's how I feel.

[ThePhiant]

clancy

"Remember that trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!)."

ARE YOU SPEAKING FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE????????????????
AFTER ALL YOU ARE ANONYMOUS AND YOUR GENDER IS NOT KNOWN EITHER.

[Mrs. Wacco]

You are all feeding the troll by simply having this discussion. The following is from this link;
https://www.flayme.com/troll/



What Is A Troll?

The term derives from "trolling", a style of fishing which involves trailing bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The troll posts a message, often in response to an honest question, that is intended to upset, disrupt or simply insult the group.

Usually, it will fail, as the troll rarely bothers to match the tone or style of the group, and usually its ignorance shows.

Why do trolls do it?

I believe that most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.

Disrupting a stable newsgroup gives the illusion of power, just as for a few, stalking a strong person allows them to think they are strong, too.

For trolls, any response is 'recognition'; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response.

Trolls, rather surprisingly, dispute this, claiming that it's a game or joke; this merely confirms the diagnosis; how sad do you have to be to find such mind-numbingly trivial timewasting to be funny?

Remember that trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!).

How can troll posts be recognised?

...the danger is that once the group takes sides, the damage is done.

Here Here! Troll behavior is akin to passive/aggressive behavior: the power is in getting the response. The best way to deal: IGNORE

This is a community that needs to learn to deal with all kinds of folks who carefully walk the line where some are offended and others not. She clearly writes in a way to irritate and poke. Well, just step aside from the poke (think aikido)

Ignoring Phiant will be work; she pokes in such a way that you can't help yourself. But you can!! It's part of growing awareness and consciousness within yourself. Don't get sucked in.

If you enjoy the Phiant, respond to her, privately. There is concern, if people do respond to her publicly, threads will get derailed for people who want to follow a thread but not Phiant. This will take work on members part to navigate. I have no idea what the technical implications are.

Maybe there can be a new feature: "Members to ignore"

Linda

[rodeogal]

ARE YOU SPEAKING FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE????????????????
AFTER ALL YOU ARE ANONYMOUS AND YOUR GENDER IS NOT KNOWN EITHER.


Geez Lulu! Why do you have to yell? This is exactly why some of us here want you gone! And by the way, I am a woman, in Sebastopol, and choose not to give my name.

[Lorrie]

March 26, 2007
https://www.beliefnet.com/imgs/x.gif <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=410 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left width=20>https://www.beliefnet.com/imgs/x.gif</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width=370>Today's Outlook: Today's emotionally sensitive Cancer Moon drives our feelings inward because they seem out of place in the real world. Although we might choose not to express our needs for fear of rejection, showing vulnerability may be a sign of strength and not of weakness. Meanwhile, the fiery Aries Sun tensely semisquares dreamy Neptune, continuing yesterday's theme of uncertainty. Although we may believe that action is required, patience may be a smarter tactic.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Larissad]

In this case I concur...as long as there have been no serious threats or slanders made (like use of racial/ethnic slurs, or threats against the well-being of another's person).
Namaste.
-Larissa
:2cents:



Hi All,

'Weeds are plants whose benefits haven't been fully discovered'

I don't remember who said this, but I think it even applies to this case.

Humor is a personal taste and when someone as educated as professor Zeno can see the function of the little bite a Court jester can bring, then who am I to disagree.
I think Mad Miles went way over board, ThePhiant is making fun of Yoga not him when he talks about trim, fit women doing parlor tricks. I guess she thinks that they are all doing circus acts (look at the photo Miles posted, I can't do that)
so then Miles when on an attack and thePhiant responded to that in a sarcastic way.
With Juggledude thePhiant exposed the hypocritical way Royce lectures others, and not himself.
I understand that Barry wants to support his friends, but can we laugh at ourselves every now and again?
ThePhiant seems to expose some raw nerves, we can learn from that if we want to too.

T

[mykil]

Has Anyone Seen My Dog??? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Oh we were being Serious!! IT has become apparent to me that Lulu wants to stay! This says allot, as not wanting to be cast away in haste, thrown from the train, pulled without leaving a seed. Performing the mental lobotomy, maybe you might ask her if she/he will try to behave. Leave it to her/him as it maybe. To be in control once again, her/his own demise. I really think she/he might want to change the name to Lulu; I do like that much more than the one being used now. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The options as deem if she/he wouldn’t behave, it’s not only the name that would be banned, it would be the IP address, so it wouldn’t matter what name she/he uses, it wouldn’t work from that computer or household. She might use a friend’s puter, which would get that IP banned as well, so there isn’t much that she/he could do if Barry really does ban her. Food for thought for the Lulu! Peace is more than just a word! <o:p></o:p>

[Tars]

Congratulations Barry - for operating these forums! There're uplifting aspects to it, then there're frustrating aspects, as in this instant.

This situation reminds me of a local usenet group I used to frequent - "sonoma.general". I ultimately just dropped participation there because it was absolutely democratic. It was absolute in the sense that there were several "trolls" or social morons who took the thing over in the frequency & negativity of their posts.

Hatred spew is negative energy, and while it is sufficient for some reasonable people, in their desire to be humane, to tolerate negative personalities, that negative energy turns most people off. Most participants in forums don't usually participate more than by reading posts. If the percentage of negative posts gets too great for them, they don't complain about it, they just leave and don't come back. So the net effect of trolls is to reduce the amount of participation in forums.

A truly democratic discussion needs to be moderated/managed; congress and parliament are excellent examples of this concept. You are the arbiter of the discussions here. To maximize the volume and the quality of the discussions, I urge you to weed out the trolls who detract from positive discussion. If they can't/won't participate positively, then let them go set up their own forum, where they can spew all the obnoxious things they want. And there, the people who don't mind or are attracted to that nonsense, can participate in it too.

Tars

[ThePhiant]

Barry wants to pull, you want to ignore.
are you still 'gardening' together?
relationship status: no answer??????????
the little cleavage might help................

but on a more personal matter, a lot of people, I don't even know, are saying awful things about me, do you think I should ask for sanctions from Barry?



Here Here! Troll behavior is akin to passive/aggressive behavior: the power is in getting the response. The best way to deal: IGNORE

This is a community that needs to learn to deal with all kinds of folks who carefully walk the line where some are offended and others not. She clearly writes in a way to irritate and poke. Well, just step aside from the poke (think aikido)

Ignoring Phiant will be work; she pokes in such a way that you can't help yourself. But you can!! It's part of growing awareness and consciousness within yourself. Don't get sucked in.

If you enjoy the Phiant, respond to her, privately. There is concern, if people do respond to her publicly, threads will get derailed for people who want to follow a thread but not Phiant. This will take work on members part to navigate. I have no idea what the technical implications are.

Maybe there can be a new feature: "Members to ignore"

Linda

[ThePhiant]

Hello again,

so Lyndascue Christensen is not your name?
double standards are the standard





Geez Lulu! Why do you have to yell? This is exactly why some of us here want you gone! And by the way, I am a woman, in Sebastopol, and choose not to give my name.

[smonday]

I'm not anxious to remove people unless their overstepping is so offensive everyone knows it immediately in their guts. Thats not the case here.The power to expel is a frightening one and should be used most judiciously.
Stella

[nurturetruth]

I agree with Sarah S , Tars, Smonday in the idea of being cautious when it comes to infringing on free speech.

but am aware of the balance needed. I am sure Barry can pull some option to create. such as a flagging system or a way to be able to ignore certain users energy field.

I admire and applaud this community for such intellectual /emotional dancing .

"All colors of the rainbow" are honored in my vision. :rainbow:

*** It has been drawn to my awareness that perhaps I should be banned--barred and "thrown rocks at" because I used more than 2 colors of my rainbow...on one of my recent postings!

(( Giggling here...not serious))

I will seriously be reflecting on Wacco and am very fascinated and intrigued with how this situation will turn out.

Thank Goodness this topic of banning/ignoring...and what to do about unpleasant vibrations came up!

We can now get a grip and DO something...as it is NOT the first time or last time an unpleasant energy field will be experienced in community.

LORRIE: thank you for posting the astrological aspects! very mindful and helpful! Thank you!
LESLIE: I can resonate with you regarding the banning method...

Thank you all for such an insightful Dance!
It has been more fun to see a dance happen around this topic rather than "stoning" or "throwing rocks" at the accused. :):

[rodeogal]

Hello again,

so Lyndascue Christensen is not your name?
double standards are the standard


Okay, so you got me......I forgot that I had put my entire name on my profile. By the way, there's no "c" in my first name. I'm reluctantly trusting that you won't be slandering my name. We'll see.

And please don't bash me for forgetting what I had put on my profile. It's been a long time since I did that and I have much more important things in my life to keep track of.

I'm curious.......do you have any idea why some of us want you off here? Do you realize that when you bash others' ideas here, usually you're comming across as attacking the individual? Maybe that's not your intention....to personally attack people. But that's how it sounds here. I'm not meaning to attack you here, I'm just hoping that you can see (just a little) where we're comming from. I'm all for freedom of speech. But it's much more effective when delivered in a way that doesn't seem to deliberately offend another. All of us here have our own ideas and opinions, including you. It would be great to hear your viewpoint on ideas that doesn't include how someone else's view is "objectionable" to you. How does that sound? :thumbsup:

[ThePhiant]

Dear secret admirer,

I am only offended by doublespeak, hypocrisy or the like. of course when I point this out in my direct and sarcastic ways, it of course rankles some feathers. NO ONE wants to be exposed in public.(pun intended)
case in point; Juggledude lectures about protocol and respect, but finds it acceptable to attack me and taunt me.
when I point out his double standard, he ignores it.
when MsTerry (the holy saint) points out the same, he apologizes in public,
well, sort of. He childishly misspells ThePhiant , so it doesn't really count.

as you probably have noticed, a lot of venom and name calling has come my way in this thread. several self declared analyst have sprouted up, practicing without a license.
even Mom Wacco comes up with the favourite slogan and put down that aggressive people, like to use: 'it's passive-aggressive behavior"
I do not object to any of this, it SHOULD be all part of Wacko.

but of course it is not OK if I do it
I am mostly surprised at the lack of understanding of humor, that shows in most responses.

Barry, I NEVER paid you a penny! I am just like the rest of those cheapskates! my remarks were a bastardized version of Groucho Marx.
grouchy was a hint, not an emotion in this case.
Do I have to mark EVERYTHING as a "pun intended"?

sorry about the side note RodeoGal,
you still ride me like a bronco







Okay, so you got me......I forgot that I had put my entire name on my profile. By the way, there's no "c" in my first name. I'm reluctantly trusting that you won't be slandering my name. We'll see.

And please don't bash me for forgetting what I had put on my profile. It's been a long time since I did that and I have much more important things in my life to keep track of.

I'm curious.......do you have any idea why some of us want you off here? Do you realize that when you bash others' ideas here, usually you're comming across as attacking the individual? Maybe that's not your intention....to personally attack people. But that's how it sounds here. I'm not meaning to attack you here, I'm just hoping that you can see (just a little) where we're comming from. I'm all for freedom of speech. But it's much more effective when delivered in a way that doesn't seem to deliberately offend another. All of us here have our own ideas and opinions, including you. It would be great to hear your viewpoint on ideas that doesn't include how someone else's view is "objectionable" to you. How does that sound? :thumbsup:

[Dixon]

I have mixed feelings re: kicking out ThePhiant. Looking through all of his/her posts, I see that most of them are not remotely rude or provocative. Then there are those in which s/he/it (you can pronounce that any way you want) is irrational, irritatingly closed-minded, and seemingly needlessly provocative. S/he/it even tossed a little bait my way, but I didn't bite.

I'm not sure whether to call him/her a troll. That seems to imply some assumptions about his/her motivations and, speaking as one who occasionally is the target of false asssumptions about my own motivations from those who disagree with me, I'm sensitive to the fact that we're on thin ice when we make presumptions about others' motivations.

Although it makes sense to attribute purposeful disputatiousness to someone who chooses nicknames one of which is a pun on "defiant" and the other on "giant prick", I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt.

So I would stop short of the troll assumption, though it could be true. Assessing the situation on the basis of her/his actual behavior without assumptions about her/his intentions, I note that s/he/it stops short of actual verbal abuse, preferring sarcasm (which I myself am no stranger to!) and irrational argument. It seems to me that if we were to excommunicate ThePhiant due to sarcasm, I and several others would also be outtahere, and if we were to excommunicate ThePhiant due to irrationality and closed-mindedness, we'd have to kick out two-thirds of Wacco's membership for the same reason.

So, while I'm often annoyed and frustrated by ThePhiant's seemingly purposefully obtuse BS, I would argue against booting her/him/it unless and until s/he/it unambiguously transgresses the boundaries of civilized discourse.

But I do like the idea of full disclosure of identity, rather than letting people hide behind the veil of anonymity. I see no good reason for anyone to insist on anonymity for something like Wacco, and am suspicious of the motives of those who wish to hide behind a mask (especially one shaped like a giant defiant prick). I think people who have such anonymity may be emboldened to be more unpleasant than they would be if their identities were known. So, let's require that all members post their actual name on the members' page, and boot anyone who refuses.

Thanks, Barry and everyone, for your concern for the good of Wacco.

Dixon

[mykil]

Not only that. but most women really don't what me to know whom they are nor where they are! LMAO!!!



I respectfully disagree. I see several very good reasons to remain anonymous, especially if you take controversial positions, particularly political opinions. We may not even recognize our own country 10 years hence, and what you say may very well be held against you.

[petermargolies]

The notion of free speech calls for everyone who subcribes to the concept to defend the rights of others to say even what we find most odious. The words of Martin Luther King might never have been heard had we not lived in a society that also allowed those of David Duke.

There are obvious exceptions - yelling fire in a crowded theater when no such fire exists, enouraging children to participate in dangerous behavior or . . . never mind. Stating the obvious to those who buy into the notion of free speech should not be necessary. The rest I suspect I'll never be able to convince.

We all have the option of not listening, or in this case, simply clicking through those e-mails we choose not to read, for whatever reason.
In this Wacco world, we are blessed with a moderator who during its life has demonstrated a well-reasoned mix of restraint, a firm grasp of the obvious and respect for the First Amendment. In the final analysis, this virtual world is his. He is judge, jury and executioner. I don't think this bulletin board could survive without such a person - or group of people.
It would appear that the subject has been thoroughly discussed. The final decision regarding ThePhiant rests with Barry. I'm confident it will be well-reasoned.

Oh, and if you haven't sent him the token sum he's asked of each of us, please consider doing so.

[liberty]

okay well I have thought alot about weather or not to reply to this thread but is has been sitting with me ,so here it goes.I do agree all the talk feeds the beast(the phiant) if you will. truth I dont really give a crap about the phiant. I do however have strong feelings on supporting barry and this site that seems to have been so lovingly provided for the community. I have often read posts where poeple disagree ,they do so respectfull and by following the intention of this site.I believe it is incorrect to site that wacco is a site where all share the same opinions . I must say dixon I agree with the idea of folks identifying themselves.I know it can be scary to have opinons when you must owen them, but your opinions do not really belong to you when you allow fear to tread all over them.I have stood up in the past in public for some of my beliefs , I have expierenced retrobution, you get thru it and you get thru it with your dignity in tact. I also have learned that my opinions no matter how old I get or perhaps because I get older do tend to change as life sends more and more insight my way. I have also learned that my opinions are my owen and I do not need to make you wrong in order for my opinions to be right (for me). I love this sight. it is a strong reminder that there are folks out there from all walks of life living, loving ,talking ,caring ,blowing off steam ect.and they mostly choose to do so in a way that shows respect for themselves as well as others. all that being said barry you have my full on support you have created a loving nurting sight that loves folks inspires thought , humor and community. respectfully liberty lee

[nurturetruth]

yes, I am choosing to quote "Wayne Dyer" :

"You can't see something in another person unless you have it in yourself."

[Lorrie]

Well, Clancy at least you have my graditude for calling me a "lovely person" Ha ha!

Whatever,
I was only saying that I am not capable of murder!

Your welcome Clancy!

Thanks for taking the time to read.

There ! I AM On line!!




To the lovely person who emailed me regarding this statement, I'd be delighted to discuss it here, on Wacco. I participate here for the community interaction and discussion, I don't have much interest in doing it via email, but thanks for writing in any case.

[nurturetruth]

"Experience is a HARD teacber , because the "she/he/it" can sometimes give us the TEST first, and the LESSON after-wards!"

"The relationship we have with the world, are largely determined by the relationships we have with ourselves"

One of the thing's that I am starting to reflect on - is all the feelings/sensations that occurred for me with the experience of what actually took place in Sebastopol around March 12th or so.

I perceived a very unfortunate "violent act" to be on the "outside" of me for awhile.
After moving my feelings/sensations for about 5 days, i finally asked myself...

* "What is this experience attempting to teach or give me or the community?"

* What am I seeing/perceiving/experiencing on the so -called "outside" that I want or don't want in my reflection??

* Where on the inside...am I unsettled and perhaps hold un-resolved issues? (maybe even un-kind , self -judgement patterns..)

It all comes back to my my inner-self.

:hmmm: What are my needs from WEST COUNTY COMMUNITY off-line and offline?! :hmmm:

:idea: a sense of CONNECTION--- presence, co-operation, safety - emotional security.. in knowing that when "things get out of control" in community ...there ARE alternative RE-SOURCES to turn to!

HENCE: "CHOICE IS THE MAGIC OF FREEDOM"


((( anything from an established, separated ,INDEPENDENT West County Crisis Intervention; **** to knowing there IS an OPTION on WACCO to click 'IGNORE".... *** to knowing that the community of West County could somehow...pull together re-sources and survive if need be..by pulling together and co-sharing resources such as: veggie/ alternative fuel car, water, medicine, food , sense of community...should situations ever got to that point in our nation!))) ****

I would also feel safer knowing we had aware police/sheriff in WEST COUNTY who support the community and NOT political agendas ...as our freedom of speech and "to be" is not just being a concern on WACCO...but Nationally.


Thank you clancy for juicing me up to dialog! this was good for me to process!

[nurturetruth]

CLANCY:

Someone earlier suggested this thread was turning into a dance floor.

If that holds true...perhaps the same tune/music would be playing, but I would be dancing near Lorrie's vibration right now!

on your post re-garding: "we are all capable of murder"

i agree we all have imperfections we are learning to embrace...

but I can't even kill a WASP or a wasp nests and have found ways around killing them!
I can't even kill a fly or own a fly swatter! I have no desire to yell at someone, be -unkind to anyone, and have even lost the desire to Self -Judge.

Shoot! I can't even go cut beautiful , growing, LIVE flowers to put in a VASE for "temporary vibration"...just to let them wilt and die.
The only way I can allow myself to bring the beauty home ..is if I have Pearl-Light on hand to give the flower a re-birth or "new life/growth cycle....so i can continue to choose to be part of the re-birth-life cycle!!

i have personally and on a spiritual contract level.. made the choice to choose LIFE as long as i am needed for my purpose. and yes, i had a choice. i was near close to facing chemo/radiation and death (self murder?!) this time last year!
I was able to heal / shrink my tumor (s) naturally and avoid it all !

Then, i was educated to assist someone else stop their "hemmoraging" /self - murderous cycle (multiple cysts/tumors ) and choose LIFE instead too!

I have been around and seen /experienced enough destructive or self-destructive patterns ..to know how NOT to attract them , dance with them or engage in them.

I AM SAFE.

thanks for the reflection, clancy!

[Lorrie]

Well, I have given it some thought,Clancy....

I am MOST certainly not capable of murdering a human. :Um-smile:

Maybe I could kill in self defense if I was put in such a position :xpoke:

:nag:I am capable of murdering bugs, as I have. But even that was second degree because I did not plan and skeem to kill them, it was more of a reflex, but I could almost consider that self defense as well.

But I always ask for forgiveness.



Yes, lovely person, you ARE capable of murder. Up to this point, you may have chosen not to murder anyone, and you may never choose to murder anyone, but you are most certainly capable of it, under the right circumstances.

Can you imagine any such circumstance?

[nurturetruth]

OK ... now i may be dancing NEAR lorrie...but not as NEAR as I pressumed!

the last time i acted on impulse to kill a fly was over a year ago and not where i am at NOW. ((cause there were more than one!!)) I too asked for forgiveness!!

as far as killing in self defense goes... NO WAY do i carry a gun or a knife on me!! perhaps that makes me a bit vulnerable... WHATEVER! at least I have a cell phone radiating somewhere...to call WHO..9-1-1 dispatchers?

I better make sure that if I should ever attract such an experience....to Consciously somehow choose NOT to be in SONOMA COUNTY sheriff district! ((( not sure i would feel "safe" with their sense of awareness of knowing WHO the perpetrator was and who the defender was! no pun intended!))

seriously though... it would be silly fight if i were to attempt to self-defend! I am small framed, in recovery and not even strong enough to consider "fighting back".

I need MR. FLUTEMAN to teach me some Martial ARTS... so that I can properly defend myself without causing DEATH !

A Reflection and someone I am impressed with:

I do know one yoga teacher that was once raped and she was capable of being able to "leave her body" during the experience and dis-attach herself. She did not fight in fear. she knew he may kill or hurt her further.
After the experience, she spent 5 days processing and moving through different emotions ..realizing she would not have survived or even experienced the experience on her "path of life" if there was not some purpose behind it all.
and then she wrote an editorial about her meditative tragic experience with which she found a place of peace... she forgave the guy... and even visited and had talks with him in jail ! Even helped get him into a program and lessened his jail sentence. I think she even started a certain program in her county geared towards further giving help to those who have been sexually traumatized in some way.
She was capable enough of grabbing the gift and giving something back to the community as a result.








Well, I have given it some thought,Clancy....

I am MOST certainly not capable of murdering a human. :Um-smile:

Maybe I could kill in self defense if I was put in such a position :xpoke:

:nag:I am capable of murdering bugs, as I have. But even that was second degree because I did not plan and skeem to kill them, it was more of a reflex, but I could almost consider that self defense as well.

But I always ask for forgiveness.

[nurturetruth]

but Clancy... as far back as I can recall...I already had CHOSEN ... NOT to be born into ancient GREECE/ROME/ even Germany 1940's time period.

But perhaps I DID choose to live during Nazis days and cannot recall it yet. Past life readings available, anyone?!!??

I do have a fascination educating myself in order to contribute to the NOW...and am still in reflective "shock and awe" over what took place and the violent turbulence/patterns of the past.

I moarn often that I missed out on the 60's.... but I take full responsibility for my life and CHOOSING to be born in 1974 for purposes still quite unknown to me. (("My mother even told me my birth convinced her of "re-incarnation" or past lives because I did not cry a tear at all... i was born with my eyes immediately open and i was looking around the room as if i knew where I was at and had been "here" before.."))

I would be writing this to you in private reply...as what we are now discussing is "off the beaten road" of the subject matter intended. But i wish to respect "where you are at" with choosing not to dialog in private e-mails at this time and do "community dialoging" only...

THERE IS ALWAYS A CHOICE!!

though it does not rise my vibration or "get me off" to incorporate certain words such as "abuse" or " sorry" in my vocabulary... I HAVE EXPERIENCED and OBERSERVED enough violence / stress in my short lifetime TO "make different choices" as you have suggested.

Those exact experiences were the highlight to me breaking self-patterns and learning how to NOT engage, dance or attract them.

THOSE experiences were what helped me choose and evolve to "where i am at NOW.

I have always enjoyed the sensation of compassion , love and joy over fear.

if you are interested in discussing or dialoging this further, or sharing your own personal experiences, feel free to email me. I am open. :heart:


That's an admirable way to live (to some of us), but everything you describe is still a choice. If you were born into ancient Greece or Germany in the 1940s, you would likely see ruthlessness as a virtue and compassion as a weakness, and make different choices. If you are abused and stressed enough, even in beautiful Sonoma County today, you might make different choices.

[nurturetruth]

Clancy, I thank you for CHOOSING to reflect and recognize how the thread was "getting off the main topic"

I had NO IDEA the quote I posted by Wayne Dyer would go so deep!

I will even take the responsibility and CHOOSE to delete my postings regarding the " side track topic" of "what i am" or "am NOT capable of ."
If you feel we are all capable of torture and murder ..that is where you are at. I KNOW myself well enough to know where I am at.

I feel I have danced with your energy regarding this matter and have opened my email to you... but will choose NOT to join your new thread, "yes, even YOU are capable of torture and murder".....

peace and light

[Dixon]

I say we throw her/him/it to Mykil!

Dixon

[Dixon]

Clancy

Speaking as one who consistently posts extremely unpopular positions under his real name and is still alive to talk about it, I don't find your argument compelling. Your position is plausible, but I feel that the advantages of anonymity are countervailed by the disadvantages, as anonymity makes a place like Wacco a happy hunting ground for trolls and such, and I do think anonymity encourages people to be less civil than they would otherwise be.

Regards;
Dixon (my real name)



I see several very good reasons to remain anonymous, especially if you take controversial positions, particularly political opinions. We may not even recognize our own country 10 years hence, and what you say may very well be held against you.

[Dixon]

Speaking as one whose real name is forever tarnished by a vicious sort of identity theft as a result of taking an unpopular but noble stance on a usenet newsgroup, I envy you.

Clancy;

Whoooeee! I see where you're coming from now. Definitely something to consider...

Dixon

[Braggi]

The notion of free speech calls for everyone who subcribes to the concept to defend the rights of others to say even what we find most odious. The words of Martin Luther King might never have been heard had we not lived in a society that also allowed those of David Duke.


I wasn't going to chime in on this thread, but I've seen this free speech thing once too often. We all need to recognize Waccobb isn't free speech. It's a private business paid for and controlled by a benevolent dictator (thanks Barry). If Barry doesn't want it, it doesn't need to be here. If he wants neither ML King nor David Duke they have no "right" to be here. If he wants to can a troll, he can do it without discussion or comment.

Barry leans very far toward a democratic management style, but he doesn't have to. That's his right.

["Mad" Miles]

Hey Ev'body,

Since I helped to kick off this series of contretemps early Saturday a.m. I've been lurking off and on. Mostly because my current priority is to adjust to my new 4:00 a.m. alarm setting, since Monday last (which may explain some of my sensitivity to being insulted in public by ThePhiant, but not all the reasons, as previously stated.) <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I'm by nature a Night Owl. So my new schedule is kicking my circadian ass. I also felt over-subscribed in the debate and know it's good to take a back seat and let others express themselves. As a radical democrat, I'm all about everybody being heard.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Some ideas:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Speech is speech, whether online, in person, via cell or telephone, by snailmail, in pubications (Sic.), secret love notes, etc. The circumstances affect reception, but it's all speech. The idea that the internet is ephemeral so it isn't real and what goes on here doesn't matter is sophistry (Buddhist Sophistry?) <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The Subjective is Objective and vice versa. And it is all way more complicated than binary oppositional framing can grasp.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
My preference is towards radical freedom, of all kinds. But when someone consistently shits on others (Oui, C'est Francaise! Pardone Moi!!), they need to be called to task (which has been ably done by many here) and, if "needed", sanctioned. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Who decides what's needed? Barry, of course! <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
(I moderate some seven or more local political lists and two cultural lists. Four or five are active, the rest peripatetic. Violation of posting criteria is subject to a polite request to desist, non-compliance results in "moderation" [all posts from offender must be OK'd by me first before going out to the list] or in egregious, repeated instances of clearly intentional, or seemingly oblivious non-compliance [Sometimes, seemingly both] Boom, you/they're kicked off the list.) <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Or Democracy? One post, one vote? <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Beware the Tyranny of the Verbose! (I should know!? Oft times guilty!) And also beware the tyranny of the disaffected, most people vote with their feet, not their mouths. Note voting turnout statistics over the last centuries?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
On the other hand, an open forum should allow as much free expression as possible.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
There's the rub.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
If I had written, "Fuck Off, You're An Asshole!" (which was what I felt) I would have been in violation of the "conscious" lines of acceptability generally maintained here, and thankfully so. I tried to adhere, instead of giving in completely to my disgust and ennui.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
In an open "free for all" forum, I could have been "honest". And the tenor of the debate would quickly sink into the sewer of obscenity, extreme reaction and boring predictable tit for tat; i.e. childish stupidity. (As opposed to adult...?) People would leave in droves, and rightfully so. I wouldn't be a subscriber to such a board.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Some people are here to buy and sell, some for entertainment (I confess, that's one of my motivations) some for discussion (Presente!), some for ....?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
This is NOT an open forum. It is one predicated on respect, kindness and honesty. It's not an unsupervised kindergarten sandbox (as much fun as such may have been in our fantasies about playing there!).<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
On the question of identity. In social theory there are constant and rampant debates about the nature of personality. I'm in the camp that says your experiences and decisions and / or responses to those circumstances, determine your identity. The idea that in another time and another place, you would still be "you" is a myth (falsehood connotation, not the founding story of a culture definition. Or is it?)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I should have been asleep an hour and forty minutes ago. Haven't made it yet. Waiting for the crash and snore to decide for me.
<o:p></o:p>


Having stepped back, tried to let go, and preoccupied with learning a systemic culture in a one-hundred and fifty-five year old conservative institution which is highly "Ba'roque" (Pun, true in both senses) I've enjoyed the give and take here, the compromise and the digging in.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
L'esse Tombe (French: "Drop it, Let it fall." But I always like the definition, "Let it fall into the abyss and disappear for all eternity.")

Except for you Barry, you're still on! Beware what you ask for, you may get it.
<o:p></o:p>
Of course, by calling for anything here, I'm "Feeding the Collective Troll"! One of the intresting (Sic.) things about "Troll Theory" is the ambiguous roles possible. By part of the definition, I am a troll, because I launched and then held back and didn't respond publicly to the criticisms.

How can I assure you that my intentions are pure and not malevolent? Everything is a matter of trust, including our own interpretation of the information provided by our senses.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Epistemology anyone?

For clever sincerity, not "clever" obtusity. (Is that a word? If not, it is now!)
<o:p></o:p>
G,night. The pre-dawn waits.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
"M"M<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
P.S. On another thread. Re: jeremiah Chass (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19514). Horrible as it is, and I do not in any way want to be received as diminishing the tragedy of his murder (after all this is OUR community, and he lived just down the hill from my dad's place, I taught adolescents, now arrested adolescents who've been arrested, and I'm an anti-racist since forever) events like his death happen every week in poor neighborhoods all over our country, and the planet. I now get to see the survivors four days a week. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Check out the call from our local NAACP for a countywide Civilian Review Board for the Police/Sheriff/Forces of Order (as I've like to call them for these many years) I put it on the jeremiah Chass (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19514) Thread. There's a great quote at the end that I'm taking to work tomorrow to put up by my desk.
<o:p></o:p>
At least our Latino (and other) Sisters and Brothers know how to step up!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Yeaahhh!!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
:heart:

[Mrs. Wacco]

I am responding to the idea of barring someone from the list serve.

I TOTALLY disagree with barring ThePhiant


what ever happened to our First Ammendment rights..??

So what if someone writes something you don't like. it's just a discussion don't keep reading or don't respond.
As far as I can tell the people involved are enjoying themselves in these conversations.
I don't agree with personally slamming someone in any way in this public way but that isn't the point of these discussions about yoga or differenciations between male and female traits..

I TOTALLY disagree with barring ThePhiant because this person is stirring some feelings up.. do not barr this person from posts.
The guidelines are stated about how to treat each other if we can respect each other we can have arguements
" the agree the disagree"
no harm done
treat each other as you wish to be treated

I remember times when others have done the same stirrings and now see that they are seen as a valuable contributor. Won't mention names.

I could think about a lot of other things to fight about or for.

Try fighting against steroid use in young people.. how many suicides are showing up because young men are eating steroids.. How about where are the good role models???, the good heroes in our society???.. how about good heros in our community?

anyway I don't want to see anyone being barred because they have a difference of opinion and stimulate discussions even if a little heated.. no harm done.

Leslie
I'm just jumping in here as I read the latest greatest:

I don't think the issue with The Phiant is agree/disagree, different point of view, freedom of speech. It appears to me the issue is her/his desire to be confrontational and challenging. And not in a way that gets one thinking but in a way that gets ones ire up, all quite intentionally. It's intentional poking/jabbing. Granted, we're all in charge of how we react to input from the world, but I ask:Is this conscious communication? It's definitely not non-violent communication. If she/he's looking to raise consciousness, personal awareness or the level of conversation, this ain't the way to go about it.

So, does the community at large want to sanction this - ie- "treat each other as you wish to be treated"? or does the community want to say - hey, this isn't how we want to treat each other - as well as model what it means to be a conscious community.

L

[ThePhiant]

Mrs Wacco likes to come across as the level headed voice of reason, but sends me private emails filled with untruth. maybe the troll in her is trying to break free to avenge Barry or maybe that is how she wants to be treated?

The reference to non- violent communication in bold is puzzling, especially since she is not following the principles of Marshall Rosenberg herself.

but after it is all said and done, this has been quite some stimulating food for thought. Barry asked for 10 people to support ThePhiant, as it turns out this is not about ThePhiant, this is not about Wacco or freedom of speech.
it's about Barry
and I support HIM 100%, whatever he decides
Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi

cheers
ThePhiant



I'm just jumping in here as I read the latest greatest:

I don't think the issue with The Phiant is agree/disagree, different point of view, freedom of speech. It appears to me the issue is her/his desire to be confrontational and challenging. And not in a way that gets one thinking but in a way that gets ones ire up, all quite intentionally. It's intentional poking/jabbing. Granted, we're all in charge of how we react to input from the world, but I ask:Is this conscious communication? It's definitely not non-violent communication. If she/he's looking to raise consciousness, personal awareness or the level of conversation, this ain't the way to go about it.

So, does the community at large want to sanction this - ie- "treat each other as you wish to be treated"? or does the community want to say - hey, this isn't how we want to treat each other - as well as model what it means to be a conscious community.

L

[Mrs. Wacco]

Mrs Wacco likes to come across as the level headed voice of reason, but sends me private emails filled with untruth. maybe the troll in her is trying to break free to avenge Barry or maybe that is how she wants to be treated?

The reference to non- violent communication in bold is puzzling, especially since she is not following the principles of Marshall Rosenberg herself.

but after it is all said and done, this has been quite some stimulating food for thought. Barry asked for 10 people to support ThePhiant, as it turns out this is not about ThePhiant, this is not about Wacco or freedom of speech.
it's about Barry
and I support HIM 100%, whatever he decides
Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi

cheers
ThePhiant

here she goes again...another case of challenging/confronting, in this case - me -and I wonder: what to do?

I never like someone misrepresenting anything I say but I'm really not interested in engaging with her. I'm taking my own advice and ignoring her directly (I did previously write to her privately but I'm not allowed to make them public. Perhaps she'd like to post them to reveal all the untruths I wrote) but asking the wider audience how should someone who likes to engage like this be dealt with? I consulted with Mr Barry and he advised I just write that I am not taking the bait.

In writing all this, am I?

L

[liberty]

here she goes again...another case of challenging/confronting, in this case - me -and I wonder: what to do?

I never like someone misrepresenting anything I say but I'm really not interested in engaging with her. I'm taking my own advice and ignoring her directly (I did previously write to her privately but I'm not allowed to make them public. Perhaps she'd like to post them to reveal all the untruths I wrote) but asking the wider audience how should someone who likes to engage like this be dealt with? I consulted with Mr Barry and he advised I just write that I am not taking the bait.

In writing all this, am I?

L
I believe you are feeding the ego of this beast. the phiant is an abuser there is no place for an abuser on wacco. we are not required to invite abusers into our lives under any circumstances, from now on should the phiant remain on wacco I would simply use my delete button when ever she pops up. remove this energy from your loving intentional self, it has no home with you. sincerily liberty lee

[Juggledude]

In writing all this, am I?


Yes.

R

[nurturetruth]

here she goes again...another case of challenging/confronting, in this case - me -and I wonder: what to do?

I never like someone misrepresenting anything I say but I'm really not interested in engaging with her. I'm taking my own advice and ignoring her directly (I did previously write to her privately but I'm not allowed to make them public. Perhaps she'd like to post them to reveal all the untruths I wrote) but asking the wider audience how should someone who likes to engage like this be dealt with? I consulted with Mr Barry and he advised I just write that I am not taking the bait.

In writing all this, am I?

L

i have to agree with juggledude on this one as far as "feeding the energy".

the phiant IS and WAS already aware that the main issue is not she/he/it.

The phiant and other "trigger happy" beings.. are NOT responsible FOR triggers in others.

I have actually met some evolved "trigger happy" beings who enjoy the evolving consciousness by helping to reveal/ reflect the triggers/ patterns needing attention... in a more gentle lighter vibe AND are aware enough to know when to let me just "be" where I am at and back off!

I personally was acting out the phiant at one point in my life. I came from a very intense, unhealthy communicating family of alcoholics who highly enjoyed, "raw ..in your face..trigger happy" cynicism/sarcasm/dry-witty humor. It felt awful growing up around those patterns. The unhealthy communication installed in me produced a cycle of attracting it into my life for a long time. I even had to learn how to "defend myself" with the same language of unhealthy cynicsm/sarcasm which did not feel good.

But eventually... after my eyes were made open to other forms of communicating... I was able to learn how to be softer and more balanced. I have found creative ways of either responding or removing myself from the unhealthy dialog.

Not sure if the phiant would be open or ready for finding more softness/balance in energy/style while still embracing creativity. the phiant may just be too addicted to "getting off" on being "trigger happy'.

***If we were all healed beings, we might not have the triggers to be pushed and we would all be lighter and have a sense of lightness and healthy humor/sarcasm ****

The main issue I keep hearing in my head is simply "what to do with our triggers and "what to do when triggered". if we choose to ignore the supposed "trigger pusher"...that is one solution. Why OPEN our DOOR ways for that? I agree....
but.. if we do choose to ignore it... somewhere..somehow... our triggers WILL BE tested again ...in another circumstance ... when we are not expecting it to.

so either way... the triggers are there to show us where we need healing and what we need to work on. :yinyang:

[Barry]

This has been an interesting discussion! Thanks for all your thoughtful comments!

First, let me clarify something:

Free Speech

As Braggi pointed out, first amendment rights do not apply here. While I run WaccoBB.net as a public forum, it is not technically "public" in the sense that it does not have anything to do with the government (hopefully!). It's private, although I am flattered that it may be considered "public" by some. Nobody has a "right" to post/publish anything here any more than they have a "right" to post an article in the New York Times.

That said, I am loath to prevent anybody from saying anything here. However I reserve the right to prevent any particular posting or prevent all postings from a person if I judge that it is in the best interest of our community to do so. I will generally consult the community, as I am doing in this case, but I reserve to the right to act unilaterally.

Consider if each time you went to a particular theater or dance, there was someone there who was consistently "disturbing the peace" by speaking very loudly and affecting other people's experience. If nothing is done about this, you will probably just choose not to return rather than confront a difficult situation. It's up to the owner/space holder to handle the situation.


The Problem

This issue is not ThePhiant's point of view or opinion. In fact "she" rarely states a particular point of view, rather her modus operandi to challenge the poster in someway so they feel the need to defend themselves. She often makes use of whatever personal details are available to make sure it strikes a nerve. It's a sure way to get a response and this often leads to the thread being hijacked and people feeling attacked and frustrated.

To return to my analogy of weed, Dictionary.com defines a weed as :

<table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">1.</td><td valign="top">a valueless plant growing wild, esp. one that grows on cultivated ground to the exclusion or injury of the desired crop. </td></tr></tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">2.</td><td valign="top">any undesirable or troublesome plant, esp. one that grows profusely where it is not wanted:</td></tr></tbody></table>I consider ThePhiant "troublesome" and my concern is ThePhiant's participation here causes "injury of the desired crop", that being a feeling of safety, respect and community that fosters a worthwhile dialog.

The Solutions

1) Nothing: We can go along as we have been, with people responding to ThePhiant's posts as they wish.

2) Ignored by the group: Allow ThePhiant to continue to post, but have the group decide to encourage/request people to not respond.

4) Ignored by those who choose to ignore: There is a feature on this site that allows you to do this!

4) Ban: No longer allow postings from ThePhiant.

Ignoring by the group, or PDNFTT (Please Do Not Feed The Troll) has been suggested here. In theory this is a good answer, however in practice I am some concerns, such as:
What if someone takes the bait? It's very hard not to respond when someone challenges you, especially in public. Even my wise and beloved Mrs. W. was drawn into both private and public replies to ThePhiant's posts. And I suppose you could say I have too.
What if "she" posts something that appears to be on the surface a "valid" post? Who's to decide? Do I (or you) need to evaluate each post to see how taunting/challenging/worthwhile it is? This can be rather difficult, especially in light of TP's adept skills of ambiguity.I could see "ignoring" possibly working, I suppose, if after someone takes the bait someone else posts to help get the discussion back on track. But this is a very slippery slope might easily lead to the next discussion, along with the next post from TP.

The system allows you to "ignore" posts from members you specify. (This will be a supporting member only feature soon). However, that doesn't address what happens when someone responds. What you a left with is one side of a debate.

And if we ignore all her posts, what's the point of allowing her here? We might just as well...

Ban her!

The Poll

I have added a poll to this thread as you can see. I've recently upgraded the poll feature to allow you to change your vote while the poll is still open, as well as add write-in choices! So if someone adds a write-in choice you can change your vote to that new choice (or one of the original choices). This further allows the creativity of the group to emerge.

As mentioned above, I reserve the right to make decisions based on what feel is best for this site, however in most cases, including this one, I will honor the sense of the community.

:vote1:

My Vote

While many of you spoke up in favor of not banning ThePhiant on the basis of free speech and tolerance, I did not notice anybody defend her as making a positive contribution to the group that counter balances her deleterious effect. She clearly has a sharp wit, it's just a pity it isn't put to better use.

Since ThePhiant shows no signs of changing after private and public warnings (as evidenced by the nature her participation on this thread) I really don't see the point of having her around. So I will be voting to Ban. But then I slap mosquitoes, too!




<table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dn" valign="top">
</td><td valign="top"></td></tr></tbody></table>

[smonday]

My friends
I find the way the phiant is being talked about more abusive than anything he/she? said.
We're all forgetting that there are sensitive humans lurking behind the disembodied cyber
typing, and that even if she was somewhat confrontational and occasionally confronting in a way that hurt - having scads of people ganging up on her and making judgments and using ugly language to describe her, can of course only bring about a defensive and challenging rebuttal.

I'm not sure anyone expressed to her at the beginning just how they were feeling, and asked for what they wanted - that is the specific people who felt violated. Its too late now, but cant we just stop. All of you keeping it going are getting the same thing out of it that you accuse her of, I feel. We all can get way too involved in whats really trivial.

Lets get a life!

Stella

[Lorrie]

My friends
I find the way the phiant is being talked about more abusive than anything he/she? said.
We're all forgetting that there are sensitive humans lurking behind the disembodied cyber
typing, and that even if she was somewhat confrontational and occasionally confronting in a way that hurt - having scads of people ganging up on her and making judgments and using ugly language to describe her, can of course only bring about a defensive and challenging rebuttal.

I'm not sure anyone expressed to her at the beginning just how they were feeling, and asked for what they wanted - that is the specific people who felt violated. Its too late now, but cant we just stop. All of you keeping it going are getting the same thing out of it that you accuse her of, I feel. We all can get way too involved in whats really trivial.

Lets get a life!

Stella

I want to say here in response to your post, that you would not have had to write this to the group if The Phiant had not started what (pronoun here) did.
We are all in an uproar not because TP posted, but what manner (pronoun here) posted.

i.e. With negative connotations and sarcasm, to the subject at hand, which was intentionally meant to provoke responses in a aggressive, reactive speach which evoked all the responses afterward in kind.

I am assuming that we here in this conciensious community do not wish to fight against each other, only to communicate thoughtfully and with real points and meanings, for education, research, study and contribution for the good of all.

Not to say stuff just to say stuff.
Like I just did...
~Lorrie

[Barry]

A couple of things. First, there is a problem on this page when viewed with Internet Explorer. Unfortunately, you probably won't even see this message. I'm working on it... [Edit: Fixed! I've extended the poll another day because of the access problem today]

Also, I've added a new option in the poll to only allow ThePhiant to post to a new Rants and Raves (no holds barred) category. Thanks to Tars (here (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=26982#post26982)), magicnrgy (here (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=26710#post26710)) & alanora for the suggestion.

[MsTerry]

Stella, i agree with everything you have said
when Rodeogirl wrote sincerely to ThePhiant, ThePhiant wrote back sincerely, this after all the bickering they did before
there is hope and space for all of us.
T



My friends
I find the way the phiant is being talked about more abusive than anything he/she? said.
We're all forgetting that there are sensitive humans lurking behind the disembodied cyber
typing, and that even if she was somewhat confrontational and occasionally confronting in a way that hurt - having scads of people ganging up on her and making judgments and using ugly language to describe her, can of course only bring about a defensive and challenging rebuttal.

I'm not sure anyone expressed to her at the beginning just how they were feeling, and asked for what they wanted - that is the specific people who felt violated. Its too late now, but cant we just stop. All of you keeping it going are getting the same thing out of it that you accuse her of, I feel. We all can get way too involved in whats really trivial.

Lets get a life!

Stella

[MsTerry]

Barry,

that is real generous of you!
You are giving ThePhiant his own site. what a great idea!

T


A couple of things. First, there is a problem on this page when viewed with Internet Explorer. Unfortunately, you probably won't even see this message. I'm working on it... [Edit: Fixed! I've extended the poll another day because of the access problem today]

Also, I've added a new option to only allow ThePhiant to post to a new Rants and Raves (no holds barred) category.

[Chris Murray]

Couple of important points:
1) as a lurker who hasn't been abused by ThePhiant, I don't really know how thick my skin is
2) this is Barry's board, so he's obviously free to do whatever he pleases.

That said, banning ThePhiant is the thin end of the wedge. Who will be next? Its not going to be black and white, always shades of grey. There is a risk of vigorous discussion being lost to a communal group cyber hug where dissent is not tolerated for fear of someone having their feelings hurt. Essentially I think if you choose to "voice" an opinion on anything, anywhere, you should expect dissent, even ridicule and with a bit of luck, reasoned criticism. That is the benefit of discussion, not to the person who disagrees with you, but to yourself. Its how we grow and evolve. Sometimes its confrontational, but thats one of the advantages of cyberspace - you can "walk away", chill out and decide if you wish to continue, and if so, when.

I also think that sarcasm has its place, although as someone (probably not Oscar Wilde, perhaps ThePhiant knows?) once said "its the lowest form of wit".

Perform your own censoring by ignoring posters you find obnoxious. Don't ask Barry to do it for you.

[nurturetruth]

Here , Here !!

Thank You!

Well said, Stella !! !

...and MsTerry: Thank you for the well stated observation !

Glad to see a "Rant & Rave" consideration there. Although- I may decide to CHANGE my vote.....! :hmmm:

ahhhhh ! ( big sigh of relief!)

What a progressive ,interestingly evolving and fun community this is, indeed!!! :thumbsup: :thanks: :jig:

*arrggh! * A mosquito just got me!!! :eek: no kiddin'!
I am runnin' for my lemon-eucalyptus oil repellent RIGHT NOW!

Perhaps I will go into Harmony (giggles) and try to find a Citronella Geranium to put outside my front door so i can have healthier boundaries/guards up!!

I will then use the leaves to rub them on my exposed skin when vulnerable!

Gotta be prepared cause..I definitely don't want energy drainers OR Parasites feeding off me!! I want to have a LIFE !!!

Thank you WACCO!

:waccosmile:


My friends
"We're all forgetting that there are sensitive humans lurking behind the disembodied cyber"

"I'm not sure anyone expressed to her at the beginning just how they were feeling, and asked for what they wanted - that is the specific people who felt violated".

Lets get a life!

Stella

[Tinque]

I have to say I was not in the thought of wanting to dismiss ThePhiant , yet as I just read through the latest opinions , and I am explicitly talking about the ones ThePhiant has responded with, I think ThePhiants disrespect has gone to far ! So , There YOU Have IT !

[Hart]

Barry,

thanks for being so democratic, but there is or might be a little problem with the way you set up the poll.
ban or no ban would be vey simple to count.
but what you have created is a little murky. are you going to add up all the other options as one or as all seperate votes?,
if all the votes are counted seperately ThePhiant has no chance of staying alive.( and that is what you really want)
since a vote for 'no ban' but pointed into the 'ignore' category is basically a lost vote.
that is how we got Bush in the white house.

also this gratuitous and not very 'conscious' bashing of ThePhiant that you have allowed , are you going to allow this to continue if she gets banned?
or will you allow her to respond to these random acts of verbal abuse?
just something to think about




,,
A couple of things. First, there is a problem on this page when viewed with Internet Explorer. Unfortunately, you probably won't even see this message. I'm working on it... [Edit: Fixed! I've extended the poll another day because of the access problem today]

Also, I've added a new option in the poll to only allow ThePhiant to post to a new Rants and Raves (no holds barred) category. Thanks to Tars suggestion, here (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=26982#post26982).

[Hart]

clancy

the way I understand it is that MrsWacco replied to thePhiant privately and thePhiant had no way to correct the Mrs in public.
from what I understand it was MrsWacco who called thePhiant a liar, but that thePhiant was offended that she did it in private
there is always 2 sides to a story






I beg to differ. I'm very conscious of bashing ThePhaint, and I don't think it's gratuitous. Only yesterday he or she called Mrs Wacco a liar, and did it in a clever way that made it all but impossible for Mrs Wacco to prove her integrity. As someone else said, you don't have to allow abusers into your life.

ThePhiant is an ordinary internet troll. I get the impression that many of the people defending her/him have little experience with this burgeoning internet pasttime, but you will. What has played out here, including your defense, has been played out myriad times, all over the web. There's even websites that teach you how to be a more effective troll.

[Mrs. Wacco]

clancy

the way I understand it is that MrsWacco replied to thePhiant privately and thePhiant had no way to correct the Mrs in public.
from what I understand it was MrsWacco who called thePhiant a liar, but that thePhiant was offended that she did it in private
there is always 2 sides to a story

As I am the one being discussed, I must reply:
the Phiant called me a liar publicly. I invited the Phiant in my last post to publicly post what I wrote to her, to let the community decide if I was untruthful. She did not as far as I know. I would be happy to post what I wrote but I would need special dispensation from Mr Barry. But for the record, I did NOT call her anything. She actually publicly misquoted what I had said in a previous public post and I asked her privately to please quote me correctly (if I'm breaking the rule here, sorry sweetie).

Before ANYONE, including you HART, calls me a liar, they better have their facts straight.

Linda

[Mrs. Wacco]

No, just the opposite. Just scroll back up the page and you'll see, it's post numbers 58 and 59.

Thank you Clancy for providing clarity.

Linda

[Hart]

I wouldn't dare calling you a liar, Mrs Wacco
I only interpreted The Phiant's word diffirently than you
from your words it sounds that there is a dispute about what the phiant qouted correctly or incorrectly.
why don't you or didn't you bring it all out in the open




As I am the one being discussed, I must reply:
the Phiant called me a liar publicly. I invited the Phiant in my last post to publicly post what I wrote to her, to let the community decide if I was untruthful. She did not as far as I know. I would be happy to post what I wrote but I would need special dispensation from Mr Barry. But for the record, I did NOT call her anything. She actually publicly misquoted what I had said in a previous public post and I asked her privately to please quote me correctly (if I'm breaking the rule here, sorry sweetie).

Before ANYONE, including you HART, calls me a liar, they better have their facts straight.

Linda

[Mrs. Wacco]

I wouldn't dare calling you a liar, Mrs Wacco
I only interpreted The Phiant's word diffirently than you
from your words it sounds that there is a dispute about what the phiant qouted correctly or incorrectly.
why don't you or didn't you bring it all out in the open

I'd love to but I can't - not allowed to publicly post what had been a private reply. Phiant has my permission to post our dialog.

The incorrect quote tho, was from a public post, so I will clarify that:

I had written publicly that "troll behavior is akin to passive-aggressive behavior - the power is in getting the response". She replied publicly that I said she IS passive-aggressive. Not the same thing.

I had written to her privately as I was not interested in adding to the public discourse at the time, even tho I was. duh!

Linda

[Barry]

I want to point out that ThePhiant's troll-like behavior, that of challenging and causing someone to defend themselves along with much needless chatter, has continued on this thread.

See how her post:

Mrs Wacco likes to come across as the level headed voice of reason, but sends me private emails filled with untruth. maybe the troll in her is trying to break free to avenge Barry or maybe that is how she wants to be treated?... lead to posts 74 (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=27043#post27043), 75 (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=27046#post27046), 76 (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=27047#post27047), 77 (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=27048#post27048), 78 (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=27051#post27051) & 79 (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=27054#post27054).

My sense is that "her" participation here just brings down the general level of discussion to bickering. :argument:

[handy]

Barry,

From a libertarian POV, your request for "votes" re: weeding thePhiant seems to be a copout.

It's YOUR site. It is private property offered on the free market. The statement that, "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is inherent. If you don't like the way a 'customer' behaves in your 'store', you, and ONLY you, have the right to kick them out. Asking for opinion or consensus merely avoids responsibility, delays solutions, adds confusion and may drive other custom away.

Attempting to put a veneer (some would say 'slime') of democracy on what is most certainly a personal call, seems misleading at best.

Bureaucrats hide behind votes. Free humans take decisions.

[nurturetruth]

If I was a "store" owner... yes, it would be my sole (soul?) decision.

but my "store-front" scenerio ...may also include an intent for an experiment of : merging, co-operation and community.

I would like to point out that although BARRY has a right to do whatever he wants...for whatever reason(s).... " troll " energy...usually just keeps coming back...under a different name / computer/ server or experience.
( they can be real good at SHAPE SHIFTING)

why not try and experiment with Harmony on this one? It has definitely contributed to my process of evolving!

(( I am headed to HARMONY right now for my citronella geranium! :wink: ))

[nurturetruth]

If I was a "store" owner... yes, it would be my sole (soul?) decision.

but my "store-front" scenerio ...may also include an intent for an experiment of : merging, co-operation and community.

I would like to point out that although BARRY has a right to do whatever he wants...for whatever reason(s).... " troll " energy...usually just keeps coming back...under a different name / computer/ server or experience.
( they can be real good at SHAPE SHIFTING)

why not try and experiment with Harmony on this one?

It has definitely contributed to my process of evolving!

(( I am headed to HARMONY right now for my citronella geranium! :wink: ))



Barry,

From a libertarian POV, your request for "votes" re: weeding thePhiant seems to be a copout.

It's YOUR site. It is private property offered on the free market. The statement that, "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is inherent. If you don't like the way a 'customer' behaves in your 'store', you, and ONLY you, have the right to kick them out. Asking for opinion or consensus merely avoids responsibility, delays solutions, adds confusion and may drive other custom away.

Attempting to put a veneer (some would say 'slime') of democracy on what is most certainly a personal call, seems misleading at best.

Bureaucrats hide behind votes. Free humans take decisions.

[Juggledude]

Barry,

From a libertarian POV, your request for "votes" re: weeding thePhiant seems to be a copout.

It's YOUR site. It is private property offered on the free market. The statement that, "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is inherent. If you don't like the way a 'customer' behaves in your 'store', you, and ONLY you, have the right to kick them out. Asking for opinion or consensus merely avoids responsibility, delays solutions, adds confusion and may drive other custom away.

Attempting to put a veneer (some would say 'slime') of democracy on what is most certainly a personal call, seems misleading at best.

Bureaucrats hide behind votes. Free humans take decisions.

Where do free humans take their decisions? I assume you meant make them? Anyway, Barry isn't copping out of anything, he's very clearly stated that the decision will be his and his alone, and owns up to the responsibility of it. He is also asking for and listening to the thoughts and feelings of those people he interacts with in the form of this conscious community. I have no clue what you define "libertarian" as, I get an image of an old lady with glasses who presides over shelves full of flags, but if it means someone who acts unilaterally and heavy handedly without respect, I'm glad Mr. Barry isn't in step with that POV.

Royce

[MsTerry]

MrsWacco, I love your answers in your column, but reading your responses to ThePhiant makes me wonder about your own unresolved issues.(Parent stuff like the rest of us?)
saying that the Phiant is misquoting you is really nitpicking or bickering as Barry calls it. using the word 'akin' is only a cover for what you really are trying to say', so, the Phiant said it for you
and if you really want everybody to be precise in quoting, then YOU should not misquote the Phiant. he never called you a liar in public, and you know that.
I am just making an observation, not a judgement
peace

T




I'd love to but I can't - not allowed to publicly post what had been a private reply. Phiant has my permission to post our dialog.

The incorrect quote tho, was from a public post, so I will clarify that:

I had written publicly that "troll behavior is akin to passive-aggressive behavior - the power is in getting the response". She replied publicly that I said she IS passive-aggressive. Not the same thing.

I had written to her privately as I was not interested in adding to the public discourse at the time, even tho I was. duh!

Linda

[Mrs. Wacco]

MrsWacco, I love your answers in your column, but reading your responses to ThePhiant makes me wonder about your own unresolved issues.(Parent stuff like the rest of us?)
saying that the Phiant is misquoting you is really nitpicking or bickering as Barry calls it. using the word 'akin' is only a cover for what you really are trying to say', so, the Phiant said it for you
and if you really want everybody to be precise in quoting, then YOU should not misquote the Phiant. he never called you a liar in public, and you know that.
I am just making an observation, not a judgement
peace

T

Thanks for your comments, but did you read all her commentary? Someone saying you wrote something " ....filled with untruths...." is not calling someone a liar? And it was Clancy who named her a liar, not me.

I used the word "akin" because it's exactly the word I wanted to use. I am very exact in my language. I don't know that Phiant is passive-aggressive but someone named her "troll-like" and that kind of behavior is akin to passive-aggressive behavior - they get their power from eliciting a reaction.

As for parent issues: I'm not sure what the relationship is to this conversation? My left over parent stuff is a not-good-enough button, which does not prevent me from being extraordinary.

Linda

[MsTerry]

Mrs Wacco, of course you are extrordinary,
but I am mystified, before I wrote my last post I reread only your posts, not clancy's. and I could have sworn that it read; someone who called me a liar in public'
are you doing some editing???
caus I would have never writen that post if I wasn't sure about what I said
this is getting weird
T



Thanks for your comments, but did you read all her commentary? Someone saying you wrote something " ....filled with untruths...." is not calling someone a liar? And it was Clancy who named her a liar, not me.

I used the word "akin" because it's exactly the word I wanted to use. I am very exact in my language. I don't know that Phiant is passive-aggressive but someone named her "troll-like" and that kind of behavior is akin to passive-aggressive behavior - they get their power from eliciting a reaction.

As for parent issues: I'm not sure what the relationship is to this conversation? My left over parent stuff is a not-good-enough button, which does not prevent me from being extraordinary.

Linda

[nurturetruth]

(SELF EMPATHY satement):

I am feeling mesmerized and finding myself reaching a sudden state of dis-appointment , because I am needing a sense of .. justice/fairness/equality/ inspiration and harmony from and IN this "conscious community"

EXPRESSION:

When I see/read "finger pointing back and forth" or "blame -game" techniques being used ( OBSERVATION) on this board, I FEEL "concerned, puzzled, skeptical, and sad... because I am NEEDING the above stated needs met.

REQUEST:

Would this community be willing to tone down the finger pointing, please?

https://www.cnvc.org for other Compassionate Communication practice Templates. or feel free to contact me.

"Bombs will kill terrorists, but only LOVE will stop terrorism"

"We are HERE to AWAKEN from the illusion of our separtness"

"May all beings everywhere, with whom we are inseparably interconnected, be fulfilled, awakened, and free.
May there be peace in this world, and throughout the entire universe, and may we all together complete the spiritual journey"

Namaste' to all !

[ThePhiant]

linda, linda, linda

I am just shaking my head, I still can't believe this is coming from you

AKIN???????????
that's it? that makes a whole LOT of difference
and then in the same breath your little spiel about "filled with untruths...." is not calling someone a liar? "
isn't that akin to what I did?
let me quote Clancy "It's bizarre that someone would make such a distinction."

"but someone named her "troll-like" and that kind of behavior is akin to passive-aggressive behavior "
this is a good one! you are able to accuse someone without using your own words, this kind of writing is akin to passive-aggressive behavior ! did you go to school for that?
your writing is akin to someone who doesn't take responsibility for their writing. akin to someone who hides behind somebody else, akin to somebody who behaves like a troll................

remember, I didn't say it! I said AKIN



Thanks for your comments, but did you read all her commentary? Someone saying you wrote something " ....filled with untruths...." is not calling someone a liar? And it was Clancy who named her a liar, not me.

I used the word "akin" because it's exactly the word I wanted to use. I am very exact in my language. I don't know that Phiant is passive-aggressive but someone named her "troll-like" and that kind of behavior is akin to passive-aggressive behavior - they get their power from eliciting a reaction.

As for parent issues: I'm not sure what the relationship is to this conversation? My left over parent stuff is a not-good-enough button, which does not prevent me from being extraordinary.

Linda

[ThePhiant]

SO mrs wacco

this is akin to slander, akin to troll like behavior.
please prove to the community, with quotes,dates, post #, where I call you a liar.
if you can't prove that I used the word liar, well, that would be akin to lying!


As I am the one being discussed, I must reply:
the Phiant called me a liar publicly. I invited the Phiant in my last post to publicly post what I wrote to her, to let the community decide if I was untruthful. She did not as far as I know. I would be happy to post what I wrote but I would need special dispensation from Mr Barry. But for the record, I did NOT call her anything. She actually publicly misquoted what I had said in a previous public post and I asked her privately to please quote me correctly (if I'm breaking the rule here, sorry sweetie).

Before ANYONE, including you HART, calls me a liar, they better have their facts straight.

Linda

[ThePhiant]

MsTerry

YOU ARE A SAINT
you are not crazy, ThePhiant did NOT call her a liar.
thanks for pointing that out!
too sad your hero can't cop to it



MrsWacco, I love your answers in your column, but reading your responses to ThePhiant makes me wonder about your own unresolved issues.(Parent stuff like the rest of us?)
saying that the Phiant is misquoting you is really nitpicking or bickering as Barry calls it. using the word 'akin' is only a cover for what you really are trying to say', so, the Phiant said it for you
and if you really want everybody to be precise in quoting, then YOU should not misquote the Phiant. he never called you a liar in public, and you know that.
I am just making an observation, not a judgement
peace

T

[ThePhiant]

I am glad that at least someone is watching the house when I am gone



clancy

the way I understand it is that MrsWacco replied to thePhiant privately and thePhiant had no way to correct the Mrs in public.
from what I understand it was MrsWacco who called thePhiant a liar, but that thePhiant was offended that she did it in private
there is always 2 sides to a story

[ThePhiant]

now this IS an interesting post!!!!!
but Barry never responded?
here is a guy trying to raise some consciousness about possible vote manipulation. and Barry doesn't respond??????????
what does that mean?????
it's a done deal? then why are we going through the hoopla of voting?
at this point 9 are for banning, 10 are not, 5 are for restriction
What happened to all the people? there are almost 1100 hits for only 90 posts,
where are all their votes?:wink::wink::wink::wink::wink::wink::wink::wink:
then again if Bush an do it, why can't Barry:wink::wink::wink::wink::wink::wink::wink::wink:



Barry,

thanks for being so democratic, but there is or might be a little problem with the way you set up the poll.
ban or no ban would be vey simple to count.
but what you have created is a little murky. are you going to add up all the other options as one or as all seperate votes?,
if all the votes are counted seperately ThePhiant has no chance of staying alive.( and that is what you really want)
since a vote for 'no ban' but pointed into the 'ignore' category is basically a lost vote.
that is how we got Bush in the white house.

also this gratuitous and not very 'conscious' bashing of ThePhiant that you have allowed , are you going to allow this to continue if she gets banned?
or will you allow her to respond to these random acts of verbal abuse?
just something to think about

[ThePhiant]

tinque

I want to make up with you!
but you have to say what I did wrong not what is akin to what you think I said.
will you? in English?


I have to say I was not in the thought of wanting to dismiss ThePhiant , yet as I just read through the latest opinions , and I am explicitly talking about the ones ThePhiant has responded with, I think ThePhiants disrespect has gone to far ! So , There YOU Have IT !

[ThePhiant]

Stella

you are the BEST!
any day of the week



My friends
I find the way the phiant is being talked about more abusive than anything he/she? said.
We're all forgetting that there are sensitive humans lurking behind the disembodied cyber
typing, and that even if she was somewhat confrontational and occasionally confronting in a way that hurt - having scads of people ganging up on her and making judgments and using ugly language to describe her, can of course only bring about a defensive and challenging rebuttal.

I'm not sure anyone expressed to her at the beginning just how they were feeling, and asked for what they wanted - that is the specific people who felt violated. Its too late now, but cant we just stop. All of you keeping it going are getting the same thing out of it that you accuse her of, I feel. We all can get way too involved in whats really trivial.

Lets get a life!

Stella

[Barry]

I am glad that at least someone [Hart] is watching the house when I am gone


MsTerry

YOU ARE A SAINT...


now this IS an interesting post!!!!!
but Barry never responded?
here is a guy trying to raise some consciousness about possible vote manipulation. and Barry doesn't respond??????????

I'm responding. And I'm going to "raise some consciousness about possible vote manipulation" [Thanks for the tip, but I was already onto you!]

It turns out that ThePhiant is "akin" to MsTerry (Mystery?) and Hart in that they are the same person! Yes, ThePhiant has been masquerading as both MsTerry and Hart, each of which are staunch supporters of ThePhiant, surprisingly enough, and each of which has voted!

That's it! She/he/it/they are outta here! :wavatcha:

I hope he/she finds help for whatever his/her needs are that motivated this behavior, however I can't allow WaccoBB.net to be used for it.

I hope you have all enjoyed watching this play out. This is a good example of why it may be necessary to remove people from this board from time to time. I'll probably do it more quietly next time.

We can now resume with our regularly scheduled programming...

[nurturetruth]

Barry.. have or will you be establishing a way for "the phiants" vibration to NOT come resonating back under a different identity?

case in point: trolls are GREAT shapeshifters!

Hope we all got something positive out of this and learned something from all this.








linda, linda, linda

I am just shaking my head, I still can't believe this is coming from you

AKIN???????????
that's it? that makes a whole LOT of difference
and then in the same breath your little spiel about "filled with untruths...." is not calling someone a liar? "
isn't that akin to what I did?
let me quote Clancy "It's bizarre that someone would make such a distinction."

"but someone named her "troll-like" and that kind of behavior is akin to passive-aggressive behavior "
this is a good one! you are able to accuse someone without using your own words, this kind of writing is akin to passive-aggressive behavior ! did you go to school for that?
your writing is akin to someone who doesn't take responsibility for their writing. akin to someone who hides behind somebody else, akin to somebody who behaves like a troll................

remember, I didn't say it! I said AKIN

[nurturetruth]

Thank you Barry for coming to a resolution regarding this matter of de-fiance.

What happens though--if ThePhiant shape-shifts under yet another identity? Will you have your mosquito repelant waiting and ready?

i mean..if she/he/it had 3 going on...((( how on earth did ya figure this out and what was the "give away"?! tracking energy to.......??))) WHAT could possibly help this from NOT happening again on a regular basis?

Interesting... i just got done watching a documentary on THE HISTORY CHANNEL regarding Psychic Vampires and how they will get UP in your face..helping to create intense emotions and then you will feel drained afterwards.

But...THIS program is NOW indeed history!! :wink:

Whew !! :thumbsup:

Now all we have to do is switch the channel onto The Learning Channel : "Getting rid of Insanity : Impeaching the President !"

https://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer

"If the president wants to get in a fight with Congress over how to read the Constitution, it appears that the people will back Congress. "
(( "Impeachment Threat is Real", The Nation , John Nichols. March 27))




I'm responding. And I'm going to "raise some consciousness about possible vote manipulation" [Thanks for the tip, but I was already onto you!]

It turns out that ThePhiant is "akin" to MsTerry (Mystery?) and Hart in that they are the same person! Yes, ThePhiant has been masquerading as both MsTerry and Hart, each of which are staunch supporters of ThePhiant, surprisingly enough, and each of which has voted!

That's it! She/he/it/they are outta here! :wavatcha:

I hope he/she finds help for whatever his/her needs are that motivated this behavior, however I can't allow WaccoBB.net to be used for it.

I hope you have all enjoyed watching this play out. This is a good example of why it may be necessary to remove people from this board from time to time. I'll probably do it more quietly next time.

We can now resume with our regularly scheduled programming...

[Vet-To-Pet]

I'm not sure if this is how I'm supposed to 'vote', but my vote goes to the "Allow her to post to the Rantings section". I doubt s/he will be "back" after all of this anyway...
Vet-To-Pet

[saysni]

Beware: Slippery slope ahead...

[mykil]

As long as it's calm, clever, clean, and not boring, who cares? Bring it! I think we are all in awe over the last few dayz on this subject and honestly we can use a little break before the next little mini drama might unfold! LOL! There does seem to be a calm about the board with the dismissal of Lulu. PEACE IS MORE THAN JUST A WORD!!!


Beware: Slippery slope ahead...

[Barry]

I'm not sure if this is how I'm supposed to 'vote', but my vote goes to the "Allow her to post to the Rantings section". I doubt s/he will be "back" after all of this anyway...

After seeing the increasing petulance that has appeared on this thread, all of which stemmed from ThePhiant (and her covert alternate identities as Hart and MsTerry) and that "she" voted with each of her identities, I have decided to close the poll and ban "her". Personal integrity is an essential requirement for a healthy community. ThePhiant's lack of integrity disqualifies "her" from further participation here in any form.

[Sara S]

I think you might make a distinction between "Rants and Raves" and Ego Trips; for brilliant, compassionate ranting I recommend Mark Morford at sfgate.com.

[gogo]

Dear Barry,

I am going to be upfront with you, since there has been so much disinformation on this particular thread.
I am Ms Terry and Ben Hart is my husband
I am the caretaker of Lulu,(yes that is her real name) she has terminal breast cancer and i help her out after she has had her chemo on wednesdays,
she is an extremely bright woman but with very little computer skills, due to her aging and ailing body

I have been very disstressed at the way you have been toying with this whole issue of banning or not banning. as my husband pointed out to you the poll was set up in a very deceiving way. and in the end it DIDN't matter what people voted.
I have also lost respect for MrsWacco, when I pointed out to her that Lulu didn't call her a liar, she denied it. Lulu hasn't called anybody any names!
but you do allow Clancy, your friend, to call her a name.
I don't care if you ban me or my husband.
I can't speak for Lulu, but I hope you don't jump to conclusions so fast next time when you don't know a smidgen of what goes on peoples lives
yes we both are her friends and stand deside her
all the best to you
Terry



After seeing the increasing petulance that has appeared on this thread, all of which stemmed from ThePhiant (and her covert alternate identities as Hart and MsTerry) and that "she" voted with each of her identities, I have decided to close the poll and ban "her". Personal integrity is an essential requirement for a healthy community. ThePhiant's lack of integrity disqualifies "her" from further participation here in any form.

[nurturetruth]

We each hold our own "truths' and perception of truth


"If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell it about other people." ~ Virgina wolf

Lying to ourselves is more deeplyiingrained than lying to others.

"It is the responsibility of intellectuals to speak the truth and expose lies."
~ Noam Chomsky

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic " ~ JFK

"Friends require too much care and feeding. A large part of their diet is made up of lies and I'm fresh out!"
~ Duane Alan Hahn

Whether something is perceived as a lie or untruth by another...is beyond the point and also the perceiver's probelm.

All that REALLY matters is our own individual perception of or about ourselves.

To imply or focus in on another as being untruthful , "filled with untruths", a liar or lying....

Is simpy maybe just another way of distracting ourselves from choosing NOT to see where we ourselves may have been untrue or un-clear with either our own selves or another. ???

[Sara S]

...
All that REALLY matters is our own individual perception of or about ourselves.

To imply or focus in on another as being untruthful , "filled with untruths", a liar or lying....

Is simply maybe just another way of distracting ourselves from choosing NOT to see where we ourselves may have been untrue or un-clear with either our own selves or another. ???

Yes, and no, and maybe.

There's a Taoist exercise (translated by Thomas Cleary as) "turning the light of understanding around," which I try to remember to practice when I catch myself judging someone. I think it means that when I see another's defects, the most useful thing I can do for my own spiritual growth is to ask myself the following question: Have I ever done that? (the answer is almost always "yes"). This allows me to stop judging them, and to shine that light of understanding where it can do some good.

On a more relative plane, though, deceit and meanness deserves sequestration from a public forum.

[nurturetruth]

Ms. Terry, and Ben Hart:

if you are her friends and you, Ms. Terry are Lulu's caregiver, perhaps LuLu could benefit from a Compassionate communication video/audio/workshop... or even a Spiritual counselor of the sorts?

I have helped myself along with 3 other people and a pet to shrink their "supposed cancerous" tumors/cysts and have even assisted an elderly woman to stop her hemmoraging through a variety of methods. One of which works real deep on the emotional level....

If Lulu is a bright intellectual and fragile as you project or know her to be...then LuLu would have chosen perhaps a healthier way to communicate or merge her feelings/needs/requests.
or she would have just chosen not to engage or inspire drama.

I got a question here .. has Lulu found an ounce of happiness in life at all?... or is she so strucken with dis-ease ...she can't figure out how to communicate without continuing the process of "sparring" and attempting to bring others down to her misery level?.

I would have figured Lulu to be so cleaver and bright, that she would have actually been the FIRST too take the initiative with choosing a higher vibe in her "choice of words / presentation" .

Oh well. Fantasy dismissed. Hope Lulu gets whatever she needs in order to continue helping herself heal and find self love and love.











Dear Barry,

I am going to be upfront with you, since there has been so much disinformation on this particular thread.
I am Ms Terry and Ben Hart is my husband
I am the caretaker of Lulu,(yes that is her real name) she has terminal breast cancer and i help her out after she has had her chemo on wednesdays,
she is an extremely bright woman but with very little computer skills, due to her aging and ailing body

I have been very disstressed at the way you have been toying with this whole issue of banning or not banning. as my husband pointed out to you the poll was set up in a very deceiving way. and in the end it DIDN't matter what people voted.
I have also lost respect for MrsWacco, when I pointed out to her that Lulu didn't call her a liar, she denied it. Lulu hasn't called anybody any names!
but you do allow Clancy, your friend, to call her a name.
I don't care if you ban me or my husband.
I can't speak for Lulu, but I hope you don't jump to conclusions so fast next time when you don't know a smidgen of what goes on peoples lives
yes we both are her friends and stand deside her
all the best to you
Terry