Denise answered a post offering a free running car and drove away in October with the car, the keys, the paperwork, and a promise to register it. She did not.
Now it has been impounded by the SRPD, leaving a good samaritan holding the bag to the tune of $500. The good samaritan can't even get the car out of impound because Denise has the keys but won't answer polite inquiries from the donor. Nice.
If you're wondering about the hippie maxim, Tempt Not Lest Ye Be Lifted From, I got it from the Rainbow Gathering decades ago and was faithful to it for years. I've been rather lax about it with folks on waccoBB. Not any more, and that makes me a little sad.
Namaste.
mykil
02-26-2007, 01:54 PM
:idea: Let this this be a lesson to all, SEND IN THE RELEASE OF LIABILITY!:hmmm: :2cents:
Barry
02-26-2007, 05:52 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your trouble with your (former) car, momsawake. And I am particularly disturbed that this has occurred from a transaction on WaccoBB. As much as I'd like to think everybody conducts themselves responsibly and with integrity here, it's sad to say that it may not always be the case. Your story points out that not only must the buyer beware, but sellers must also take prudent steps to protect themselves (i.e. Release of Liability)
I agree with Nadise that publicly pointing your finger at D is also in bad form, even if it was clear that she acted irresponsibly. And from what I read in your email, she is just not responding which doesn't mean anything (she may not be home, etc.). I have removed D contact info from your post.
If you, or any other members have a problem with somebody on WaccoBB, you are welcome to contact me privately. I'll see if I can help resolve the matter and keep an eye out for any bad apples that happen to roll into our lovely organic orchard!
gypsey
02-26-2007, 07:21 PM
Gosh and Sorry, Barry and Wacco's! HELL-O! Why is it bad form for this person to call Denise to account? The reasons for her flight from responsibility do not matter, what matters is that she did it and did not CARE enough to let the person she screwed (excused my french) know or work with her on a way out. Yes, I agree that personal info about Denise is inappropriate on a public site, UNLESS she is a member. But I disagree with the attitude that the writer has to take her lumps and never ever get mad. It sounds like the writer failed to follow certain key steps such as the release of liability. For this reason, I recommend that she contact a lawyer and follow said professional's instructions.
Good luck, Gypsey
I'm sorry to hear about your trouble with your (former) car, momsawake. And I am particularly disturbed that this has occurred from a transaction on WaccoBB. As much as I'd like to think everybody conducts themselves responsibly and with integrity here, it's sad to say that it may not always be the case. Your story points out that not only must the buyer beware, but sellers must also take prudent steps to protect themselves (i.e. Release of Liability)
I agree with Nadise that publicly pointing your finger at D is also in bad form, even if it was clear that she acted irresponsibly. And from what I read in your email, she is just not responding which doesn't mean anything (she may not be home, etc.). I have removed D contact info from your post.
If you, or any other members have a problem with somebody on WaccoBB, you are welcome to contact me privately. I'll see if I can help resolve the matter and keep an eye out for any bad apples that happen to roll into our lovely organic orchard!
The A Team
02-27-2007, 07:46 AM
Gosh and Sorry, Barry and Wacco's! HELL-O! Why is it bad form for this person to call Denise to account? The reasons for her flight from responsibility do not matter, what matters is that she did it and did not CARE enough to let the person she screwed (excused my french) know or work with her on a way out. Yes, I agree that personal info about Denise is inappropriate on a public site, UNLESS she is a member. But I disagree with the attitude that the writer has to take her lumps and never ever get mad. It sounds like the writer failed to follow certain key steps such as the release of liability. For this reason, I recommend that she contact a lawyer and follow said professional's instructions.
Good luck, Gypsey
Thanks Gypsy,
I agree with you! and,
momsawake sorry to hear that your trust and kindness were mis-used.
Andrea
Barry
02-27-2007, 01:13 PM
Gosh and Sorry, Barry and Wacco's! HELL-O! Why is it bad form for this person to call Denise to account? A key value of WaccoBB.net is that we treat each other with respect. When there is a private dispute between two members of WaccoBB.net, it should not be posted publicly.
WaccoBB.net is not a court of law, and the accusations that can be tossed around here would not be validated and can easily become slanderous. :noevil:
As mentioned earlier, you can report issues to me privately and I will try to help you resolve the problem and I will track issues by user. If it seems that a user is involved with several disputes they will no longer be welcome in our community.
On the other hand, it's altogether valid to post negative testimonials about a business here, especially one that offers their service on WaccoBB.net, in the same way that there are positive and negative reviews posted on eBay or Amazon. Such feedback should be very specific and be posted to the Better Business Bureau (forumdisplay.php?f=93) category for now.
momsawake
02-27-2007, 02:10 PM
I agree with Nadise that publicly pointing your finger at D is also in bad form, even if it was clear that she acted irresponsibly. And from what I read in your email, she is just not responding which doesn't mean anything (she may not be home, etc.). I have removed D contact info from your post.!Ooooo, darn your due diligence Barry! Okay, okay, it wasn't fair to post her contact info but I disagree about naming her. If this person took advantage of me, she's likely to do it again to someone else. Raising a red flag seems reasonable.
Also, FYI, the car was abandoned 2 weeks ago and I've been trying to reach her by mail, phone (both numbers) and email for over a week. Denise has my home number, my work number, two email addresses, and my address - if she wanted to do the right thing she's had two weeks and ample opportunity!
If you, or any other members have a problem with somebody on WaccoBB, you are welcome to contact me privately. I'll see if I can help resolve the matter and keep an eye out for any bad apples that happen to roll into our lovely organic orchard!Didn't even consider that might be an option. I'll send you her handle (privately).
momsawake
02-27-2007, 02:36 PM
When there is a private dispute between two members of WaccoBB.net, it should not be posted publicly. <snip>WaccoBB.net is not a court of law, and the accusations that can be tossed around here would not be validated and can easily become slanderous. <snip>On the other hand, it's altogether valid to post negative testimonials about a business here, especially one that offers their service on WaccoBB.net, in the same way that there are positive and negative reviews posted on eBay or Amazon. Such feedback should be very specific and be posted to the Better Business Bureau (https://forumdisplay.php/?f=93) category for now.I'm interested in your distinction between a transaction between two private parties (which should not be made public) and a transaction between one private party and one business (which may be made public).
You've piqued my intellectually curious about how the line between okay and not okay is drawn, and why. It seems like it ought to be either 'post your negative testimonial' or 'do not post your negative testimonial' whether the subject of the post is a buyer or a seller or a business or an individual or an individual posing as a business...
It sounds as though if I had a business, I would not be allowed to post the name of someone who wrote me a bad check but the person who wrote the bad check would be allowed to post a complaint about the service they bought with their bad check. How does that make sense?
Setting aside that many of the 'businesses' listed are actually private parties, is there a liability difference between waccobb allowing a (potentially slanderous) "negative testimonial" post from a private party about a business as opposed to the identical (potentially slanderous) "negative testimonial" post from a business (or seller) about a private party (buyer)? This distinction stinks, I think.
Enlighten me, wouldja?</snip></snip>
Barry
02-28-2007, 10:33 AM
I'm interested in your distinction between a transaction between two private parties (which should not be made public) and a transaction between one private party and one business (which may be made public).
You've piqued my intellectually curious about how the line between okay and not okay is drawn, and why. It seems like it ought to be either 'post your negative testimonial' or 'do not post your negative testimonial' whether the subject of the post is a buyer or a seller or a business or an individual or an individual posing as a business...
It sounds as though if I had a business, I would not be allowed to post the name of someone who wrote me a bad check but the person who wrote the bad check would be allowed to post a complaint about the service they bought with their bad check. How does that make sense?
Setting aside that many of the 'businesses' listed are actually private parties, is there a liability difference between waccobb allowing a (potentially slanderous) "negative testimonial" post from a private party about a business as opposed to the identical (potentially slanderous) "negative testimonial" post from a business (or seller) about a private party (buyer)? This distinction stinks, I think.
Enlighten me, wouldja?Trying to draw lines through all this is difficult, but this is my best shot...
The difference lies in that a business is offering a specific service to the public on an ongoing basis. They are inviting a business relationship in the marketplace. I think it's fair and helpful if members share their experience of a business's offering. If only positive testimonials are allowed, then you don't really know if a business is being well received or not.
A private transaction, however, is a one time event, between just 2 parties. The buyer may have no public presence at all (although in this case, "D" has posted in the past).
Your hypothetical case of a customer writing a bad check is correct. However you may report the check-bouncer to me. If there is a second case of a bounced check that is not resolved, I will write the person to let them know they are no longer be welcome here. If they persist in accessing WaccoBB.net and contact sellers, I will alert the community. And in defense of your business, your other clients are welcome to post praise for your business.
Granted that many of the "businesses" on WaccoBB.net are sole practitioners whose service is very tied to their personal character, but I think it is important to draw the line somewhere.
I have not delved into the realm of liability law and I hope not to.
I have added a new guideline (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1503#post1503) regarding Negative Testimonials. Note that it requires people to state their real name when posting one so that people will be accountable for their comments. I welcome further discussion on this topic and I am open to refining this policy based on community feedback.
10) NEGATIVE TESTIMONIALS: While most transactions between members are quite satisfactory, there are going to be some that are not. Members are welcome to post public testimonials, both positive and negative, about business transactions. Negative comments should include specific details including the real name of the person posting the testimonial.
Negative comments about private transactions (including listings in our For Sale category (https://forumdisplay.php?f=8)) should be directed to the Moderator ([email protected]). If a member has a pattern of problematic transactions, they will no longer be welcome here.
Clancy
02-28-2007, 11:39 AM
If only positive testimonials are allowed, then you don't really know if a business is being well received or not.The assumption in your position is that those testifying are honest, rational and accurate in their testimony, and anyone in business will tell you that a very small percentage are anything but.
Over the last 15 years I've had a few customers from hell, who completely misconstrued our interaction and were impervious to a rational resolution. They erroneously felt victimized, and were out for blood. Just one public rant by someone like this could have a devastating impact on a business person.
Sabrina
02-28-2007, 12:11 PM
Another tip for this thread, is that if you are selling or giving a vehicle to someone, not only do you fill out and mail the release of liability to DMV, but make sure you keep a COPY of it! I've mailed them in, and still had some tow company try to come after me for some storage fees. I had to dig up that copy of the release of liability, because DMV didn't have a record of it. DMV is lightly disorganized due to all the cut backs they've had. I speak from the experience of being a licensed Auto broker / dealer.
Better luck next time,
Sabrina
P.S. Sorry I posted this in the wrong thread, initially...the one for buyers and sellers. Anyway, hope you can clean that up Barry. [It's good there, too! -Barry]
Thanks
Sabrina
02-28-2007, 12:17 PM
And, i highly agree with clancy. It's true that someone could completely damage your business if they felt erroneously victimized, and were out for blood. Who's to say how truely honest or accurate they are if they were impervious to a rational resolution, etc. as Clancy says.
The assumption in your position is that those testifying are honest, rational and accurate in their testimony, and anyone in business will tell you that a very small percentage are anything but.
Over the last 15 years I've had a few customers from hell, who completely misconstrued our interaction and were impervious to a rational resolution. They erroneously felt victimized, and were out for blood. Just one public rant by someone like this could have a devastating impact on a business person.
Barry
02-28-2007, 12:23 PM
Here's a little update on this saga...
D has been in contact with me and I believe she will try to come to an understanding with momsawake. :handshake: Stay tuned...
Punkasaurus Rex
03-02-2007, 12:36 AM
Fellow Wacco-ites:
It is my belief that what always sets this group apart is the compassionate nature of it's members, and the peaceful solutions that evolve when trying to resolve delicate issues that occasionally arise between members.
Such discussion and the diligence of people like Barry appear to have taken us peacefully past what should have been a private dispute, and I think even more importantly,developed a guideline that is of benefit to ALL of us. And our compassionate community once again sets aside greed and in so doing, insures our integrity is intact and healthy. Thanks!
For the record, I offer that following personal observation:
I have known the individual referred to as D for quite some time. We have worked together and in all that time, I have never encountered ANY negative business practices or similar issues. There has never been even a hint of impropriety. NEVER. I trust compassion still rules the day and hope a solid reputation has not been unfairly tarnished.