Re: for email sends?

[bobafifi]

Hi Barry,

On August 10th, I posted about getting the "Re: " in the Subject field for the email replies (see https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1003). I realise you were out of town during that time, so I'm posting the issue again - this time with some screenshots so you can see what I'm talking about:

https://img380.imageshack.us/img380/259/emailreply1lx.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

As you can see in the above email sends, it's unclear who started this thread from who is replying to it.

https://img380.imageshack.us/img380/9821/rereplyemail2gm.jpg (https://imageshack.us/)

On the board however (see above), the replies are clearly differentiated by the "Re: " which precedes the Title in the Subject field.

Shouldn't the email sends be as informative?

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[Barry]

Got it, Bob, thanks.
Its on the list.

[bobafifi2]

Got it, Bob, thanks.
Its on the list.
Just following up on this - any news on when this will be fixed?

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[Barry]

Just following up on this - any news on when this will be fixed?
In a word, no. I plan to be starting a round of upgrades to the system during the next month, but this isn't on top of the list. What is on the top of the list is to allow direct replies to individual emails and build a screen to allow management of subscriptions to categories.

Barry

[bobafifi2]

In a word, no. I plan to be starting a round of upgrades to the system during the next month, but this isn't on top of the list.
Well OK...
as a "list" it's pretty ambiguous as to who is writing what however.


What is on the top of the list is to allow direct replies to individual emails
That sounds like list software - are you saying once again that you believe it's somehow possible to modify this software to do that?? If so, how?


and build a screen to allow management of subscriptions to categories.
If that's possible, that'd be great.

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[bobafifi2]

to allow direct replies to individual emails
If all you're trying to do is offer users the ability to email each other when they receive an email, that could be done easily enough by simply having them include their email address in their post (for example, https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3180&postcount=1).

I suppose you could make it a little more pertinent by modifying the code to provide the subject (for example, mailto:[email protected]?subject=Re: [WaccoBB] House for rent (https://usedviolins.com/wacco_email_subject_send.html)) - is that what you have in mind?

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[Barry]

When members subscribe to get individual emails of public posting, the system sends out email with an actual return address of [email protected]. I plan to change that to the person's actual email address so the recipient can just reply to it to reply privately (like a Yahoogroups email).

[bobafifi2]

When members subscribe to get individual emails of public posting, the system sends out email with an actual return address of [email protected]. I plan to change that to the person's actual email address so the recipient can just reply to it to reply privately (like a Yahoogroups email).

OK, but wouldn't that be inviting the same complaint this bulletin board was supposed to be fixing, namely revealing the members email addresses? If I'm not mistaken, one of the main arguments you made to move from Yahoo! Groups was to protect members email addresses, right?

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[bobafifi2]

When members subscribe to get individual emails of public posting, the system sends out email with an actual return address of [email protected]. I plan to change that to the person's actual email address so the recipient can just reply to it to reply privately (like a Yahoogroups email).

Found the post:
"hiding email addresses"
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showpost.php?p=121&postcount=14

Why have you decided to change this? What about those members that don't want their email address revealed? Is this going to be an optional select at the User CP or a global admin change?

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[SJM]

I'm glad you brought up the question of "members that don't want their email address revealed". I posted a query a couple of weeks ago as to whether anyone besides myself objected to Barry's intention to remove that option, and not a single person seemed to care. I, on the other hand, am totally opposed to the idea. My tenancy on the bulletin board will probably end when that option expires.


Found the post:
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showpost.php?p=121&postcount=14

Why have you decided to change this? What about those members that don't want their email address revealed? Is this going to be an optional select at the User CP or a global admin change?

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[bobafifi2]

I'm glad you brought up the question of "members that don't want their email address revealed". I posted a query a couple of weeks ago as to whether anyone besides myself objected to Barry's intention to remove that option, and not a single person seemed to care. I, on the other hand, am totally opposed to the idea. My tenancy on the bulletin board will probably end when that option expires.
It was my understanding that members here can choose to get email or not, right?

Yahoo! Groups does:
https://img393.imageshack.us/img393/3409/yahoomail10yf.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Thanks,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[Barry]

There are several issues that are being confused.

First, the option that SJM is referring to is to prevent people from replying privately to a public post. Allowing people to reply privately does not reveal your email address. It is my policy that if someone posts on the board that they can receive a private reply.

Secondly, the option that Bob pointed out on Yahoogroups, is just a matter of how you receive copies of public postings. You can choose to not receive any email on Yahoogroups as well as on WaccoBB.net. However your email address is still revealed on the Yahoogroups website as well on individual emails and the daily digest that will be sent to any member of the Yahoogroup who chooses to receive those.

Currently, a few times each day, people hit "reply" to an individual email. When that happens they get an automated reply from the system saying they need to go to the website to reply, but their original message is not included nor does it reach their intended recipient. What's more, I get a copy of their message. There hasn't been anything juicy yet. :noevil:Even I find myself occaisionaly hitting "reply" since that's what you do when replying to an email.

What I am proposing to do is to include the posters email address on individual emails (and eventually the daily digest) so that people can directly reply to the emails. However they will still be somewhat hidden. The email address will still display as "Barry @ WaccoBB.net" however if you click on it, it will reveal the true email address. And since we are no longer part of Yahoo where spammers worldwide can join any group, I don't think it will be so much of an issue. What's more, I can ban people by their IP (computer) address, as well as their email address so I can quickly and effectively deal with any problems should they arise.

Its my sense that the convenience of being able to respond directly to an email (or eventually a posting in the daily digest ) outweighs privacy concerns and will lead to a more vibrant and responsive online community.

[bobafifi2]

There are several issues that are being confused.

First, the option that SJM is referring to is to prevent people from replying privately to a public post. Allowing people to reply privately does not reveal your email address. It is my policy that if someone posts on the board that they can receive a private reply.

Sorry Barry, but I believe you're mistaken on this. Right below the text-area box for the Private Email is the following:

Note: By using this form, your email address will become available to the user who you are emailing.


What's more, I can ban people by their IP (computer) address

What about AOL accounts or dialup users?


Its my sense that the convenience of being able to respond directly to an email (or eventually a posting in the daily digest ) outweighs privacy concerns and will lead to a more vibrant and responsive online community.

Well if you're trying to get more of the list functionality back, having the "Re:" for email sends would be very helpful - as it is now, looking at a long list of WaccoBB emails all with the same title is not.

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[Barry]

Sorry Barry, but I believe you're mistaken on this. Right below the text-area box for the Private Email is the following:

Note: By using this form, your email address will become available to the user who you are emailing.Sorry, but you are mistaken, Bob. That text means that the person sending the private reply is revealing their email address, not the email address of the person who posted.


What about AOL accounts or dialup users?I belive they will still have a bannable IP address - but I don't want to get into that now or here.

[bobafifi2]

Sorry, but you are mistaken, Bob. That text means that the person sending the private reply is revealing their email address, not the email address of the person who posted.
Well obviously the person getting the email is not revealing their address since there is no place on the form for it (see screen shot below), but the sender is - that's what the concern was, right?

https://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4829/waccosendemail0lx.jpg (https://imageshack.us)


I belive they will still have a bannable IP address - but I don't want to get into that now or here.

You may want to look into it (as I have), I think you'll be surprised at what you find out.

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[bobafifi2]

However your email address is still revealed on the Yahoogroups website

Actually it is not. Yahoo! truncates the email address displayed after the @ symbol (only the list owner has access to the full email, not members).

https://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4396/yahooemailtruncate0od.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[bobafifi2]

<snip>
Barry's intention to remove that option
<snip>
I, on the other hand, am totally opposed to the idea.

OK - I *think* I know what you're talking about now. You want to not be able to receive private emails - period - and have set your options accordingly:

https://img208.imageshack.us/img208/117/wacconoemail2rs.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

I on the other hand have my options set to allow for private emails:

https://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4466/waccoyesemail2ug.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

In thinking about this a bit, I can see at least one reason why you would like this option - the only communication with you would have to be public (i.e., witnesses).

However, as far as revealing your email address as a recipient of private emails, that is not something you need to worry about - at least for now...

I'm still not clear if Barry's plan to make the email sends/replies public as an option will be on a user-by-user basis (for example, as part of the User CP) or if it is going to be a global change. If he does make it global, then yes, your email will be revealed the first time you post.

Thanks,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[SJM]

You've got it exactly right. My feeling is that the "bulletin board" stays more civil when all responses are public. It also obviates the need for anyone to make a record of all of the responses they get (for example for handypersons, for doctors, etc.), since all of the responses are public, etc.

On the other hand, I think Barry is determined to eliminate this option, and I haven't decided what to do when that happens.....probably just lurk and never post (although I've tried that before, and tend to fail to keep to my resolve....)


OK - I *think* I know what you're talking about now. You want to not be able to receive private emails - period - and have set your options accordingly:

https://img208.imageshack.us/img208/117/wacconoemail2rs.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

I on the other hand have my options set to allow for private emails:

https://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4466/waccoyesemail2ug.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

In thinking about this a bit, I can see at least one reason why you would like this option - the only communication with you would have to be public (i.e., witnesses).

However, as far as revealing your email address as a recipient of private emails, that is not something you need to worry about - at least for now...

I'm still not clear if Barry's plan to make the email sends/replies public as an option will be on a user-by-user basis (for example, as part of the User CP) or if it is going to be a global change. If he does make it global, then yes, your email will be revealed the first time you post.

Thanks,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[bobafifi2]

You've got it exactly right.
Well alrighty then, thanks :-)


On the other hand, I think Barry is determined to eliminate this option <snip>
hmmm... guess I don't understand the logic here. For example, if you try to use the "Private Messages" link (top right), you get a window with the following:
"Your administrator has disabled private messaging."

Why would Barry disable private messaging while at the same time hard-code/enable the private messages function? (Personally I like having the option, whether or not I choose to use it...).

Thanks,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[Barry]

Why would Barry disable private messaging while at the same time hard-code/enable the private messages function? Personally I like having the option, whether or not I choose to use it.The "Private Messages" function is a feature to allow private messages that stay within the bulletin board, as opposed to private emails, which is what Susan is reffering to. You would have to goto WaccoBB.net to get your messages. However, it is a confusing interface that many people would have trouble with. It even slowed me down, but I'm sure Bob could handle it.:wink: I've disabled it so the system can have a consistent interface and feature set that every can handle.

[bobafifi2]

My feeling is that the "bulletin board" stays more civil when all responses are public. It also obviates the need for anyone to make a record of all of the responses they get (for example for handypersons, for doctors, etc.), since all of the responses are public, etc.

You bring up an interesting point, and that is which aspect of Wacco - the Bulletin Board or the List - should be emphasized here. It's no secret that I'm in favor of the list format which is what Yahoo! Groups provides, but this isn't list software and so there's significant programming/interface obstacles to deal with if that's the direction this site is trying to go towards now.

On the other hand, taking the Bulletin Board format to it's extreme and disabling all email functionality for example (i.e. all posts would be to the board and public) would create a different Wacco entirely. Along those lines, I belong to a large computer programming forum which is set up precisely - or at least very much feels - like that.

For example, last year I wanted to send a private email to somebody who had responded to my question but found it damn near impossible to locate the email send - never mind figure out how to use the cryptic interface once I found it some 45 minutes later! In short, though theoretically possible to email another member, the implied "hint" was to post to the board so that all could benefit. Perhaps WaccoBB would be a more vibrant community doing in kind - certainly would be interesting to try it out! :-)

Thanks,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[wildflower]

You mean when I click on REPLY PRIVATELY the message doesn't go to the person's private email box?

I don't get it.

Best
Karin

The "Private Messages" function is a feature to allow private messages that stay within the bulletin board, as opposed to private emails, which is what Susan is reffering to. You would have to goto WaccoBB.net to get your messages. However, it is a confusing interface that many people would have trouble with. It even slowed me down, but I'm sure Bob could handle it.:wink: I've disabled it so the system can have a consistent interface and feature set that every can handle.

[Barry]

You mean when I click on REPLY PRIVATELY the message doesn't go to the person's private email box?When you "Reply Privately" it sends a standard email to the person who posted the message which they recieve just like any other email. There is another feature, that I have disabled, to send a "Private Message" that is not an email, but rather a message that lives within the WaccoBB.net system. Again, that feature is disabled because of its complexity. All "Reply Privately" replies are delivered via standard email.

[Deb]

So, when you reply publically you can remain somewhat anonymous depending on how you set up your account, but when you reply privately you give up the privacy of your email address? That sounds fair.



When you "Reply Privately" it sends a standard email to the person who posted the message which they recieve just like any other email. There is another feature, that I have disabled, to send a "Private Message" that is not an email, but rather a message that lives within the WaccoBB.net system. Again, that feature is disabled because of its complexity. All "Reply Privately" replies are delivered via standard email.

[bobafifi2]

When members subscribe to get individual emails of public posting, the system sends out email with an actual return address of [email protected]. I plan to change that to the person's actual email address so the recipient can just reply to it to reply privately (like a Yahoogroups email).

It would seem to me that *if* it's possible to modify the code to do this, then it should also be possible to offer it as an optional feature using an else (https://www.phpbuilder.com/manual/control-structures.else.php) or elsif (https://www.phpbuilder.com/manual/control-structures.elseif.php) control structure - that way those users that want to keep their email address private will still be able to do so.

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[Barry]

The system needs to act consistently, so when it sends out email it can't be that users can directly reply to some email but not to others.

[bobafifi2]

The system needs to act consistently, so when it sends out email it can't be that users can directly reply to some email but not to others.

OK, then will you be making an announcement to all the members informing them that their email address will no longer be private so that they can change it? If so, what kind of a grace period (1 day, 1 week, 1 month etc.) do you think you'll be giving for them to do that?

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[bobafifi2]

Rather than ask the 1100+ members that want to keep their email address private to get a new email address for their WaccoBB account, perhaps integrating an anonomizer script like craigslist (https://craigslist.org) uses to protect the members email addresses would be a better way to go? For example, here's what a typical encrypted craigslist email looks like:

[email protected] (https://us.f329.mail.yahoo.com/ym/[email protected]&YY=3076&order=down&sort=date&pos=0)

This way, members will be able to email each other but without losing the privacy of their email address.

Thanks Barry,

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[bobafifi2]

craigslist (https://www.craigslist.org/) > about (https://www.craigslist.org/about/) > anonymize your email

How does it work? You can choose to anonymize your email address when posting to craigslist.

If you select this option, the posting will display a craigslist email address similar to one of the following:


[email protected] (for standard postings)

[email protected] (for job postings)

[email protected] (for forums)
instead of your email address. Craigslist will then relay any messages sent to that address to your real email address. Once your posting expires off the site or is deleted, the anonymized email address no longer relays messages to you.

Why should I choose to anonymize my email address?




Avoid revealing your true email address when posting sensitive information
Our email message relay service blocks most bulk emailers to reduce the amount of spam sent to you
The anonymized email address is no longer active after your posting expires or is deleted from our site, which means you won't get contacted unless your posting is active
Your email address is not publically displayed and is not vulnerable to being harvested for use in bulk email distributions (spam)

[Barry]

Bob, Let me know if you want to program this or pay to have it done...

If you want to discuss or suggest any other changes please contact me privately.

Barry

[bobafifi2]

You've got it exactly right. My feeling is that the "bulletin board" stays more civil when all responses are public. It also obviates the need for anyone to make a record of all of the responses they get (for example for handypersons, for doctors, etc.), since all of the responses are public, etc.

On the other hand, I think Barry is determined to eliminate this option, and I haven't decided what to do when that happens.....probably just lurk and never post (although I've tried that before, and tend to fail to keep to my resolve....)

I just noticed that the most popular blog on the net - DailyKos.com (https://www.dailykos.com/) doesn't allow private emails between members either - all comments must be public and the privacy of the members email addresses are protected - perhaps this was done for the very reasons you cite?

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[SJM]

Very possibly.
I really like it exactly the way it is now: each member can decide for his or herself whether he/she wants to receive private emails. Maybe Barry will just stay too busy and otherwise occupied to get around to really changing it. That would be my preference, obviously. Meanwhile, I'm messing about with alternative email addresses to keep my privacy and still be able to get all the messages in one box....
Susan

I just noticed that the most popular blog on the net - DailyKos.com (https://www.dailykos.com/) doesn't allow private emails between members either - all comments must be public and the privacy of the members email addresses are protected - perhaps this was done for the very reasons you cite?

-Bob
https://www.usedviolins.com

[bobafifi]

Very possibly.
I really like it exactly the way it is now: each member can decide for his or herself whether he/she wants to receive private emails. Maybe Barry will just stay too busy and otherwise occupied to get around to really changing it. That would be my preference, obviously. Meanwhile, I'm messing about with alternative email addresses to keep my privacy and still be able to get all the messages in one box....
Susan

Hi Susan,

Just wanted to let you know of a cool disposable email service called https://shortmail.net
For users like yourself that don't want any email (unlike me who wants individual emails for everything!), you can use a shortmail.net address (for example, [email protected]) to set up/change your WaccoBB account, then simply delete the email. Easy.

-Bob
https://www.bobafifi.com