Homeless Emergency on Joe Rodota Trail

[cyberanvil]

I wrote that, as I was reading his post, I would watch the video despite it coming from Fox (don't call it news) Entertainment, but then I scrolled down a bit furthur and saw D'Souza's name. I was not going to fall for a double fake news whammy of Fox and D'Souza. That would be too much toxic waste to consume in a lifetime.
:spanking:
Yes, D'Souza is a wack job and even though he documents everything he says, he should be dismissed.

[cyberanvil]

there is a reason that in a society, people do concern themselves with their reputations and strive to maintain a good one. Fox doesn't have a good one, for excellent reasons. Note the previous poster's not unwilling to consider the idea, but he is unwilling to sit through a video based on one endorsement when his previous experience with the source was so poor.

I know it's an easy way to argue on the interwebs and all, but posting links to sources that have a reputation of being strongly ideological, that don't have any counterbalancing virtues (like, say, intellectual rigor) isn't a great way to actually change anyone's mind.

You're correct. It's best to stick with Rachel Maddow and MSNBC.

[Mayacaman]

1. I've been in Vancouver twice in the last 2 months, and there are not the number of homeless that there are in the Bay area, for a number of reasons. Better health care for all (No medical bankruptcies), better mental health outreach, etc. Whoever told you such a tale is exaggerating.

2. Your friend on the bike is also probably also pulling numbers out of thin air. The Homeless count that goes on every year (was due to happen on Jan 29, but postponed due to the current emergency), now scheduled for end of February, does a very good job of physically counting all the unhoused in the county on a single morning. Involving hundreds of volunteers plus paid homeless (who know the places where people sleep) cover every foot of the county on a single day. Don't believe it? https://sonomacounty.ca.gov/CDC/Homeless-Services/Homeless-Count/ check out the data, or better yet, volunteer to help with the count.

PS the current best guess for 2019 is just under 3000. Still a horrendous number, unacceptable on many levels, but the tone of your post is too alarmist. And yes, I too believe capitalism IS the problem.

Paul, I don't think that the man who stays up all night riding his bicycle to stay warm {how about alive?} is completely balanced, but riding down the highways and hedges, he sure does run into a whole lot of homeless - more than you or I do, who have roofs over our heads.

Ten thousand? I thought the number extreme; but then again, I totally accept him as a legitimate witness. I do. Mad though he may be; he is credible. And I would contend with you that he is not "pulling numbers out of thin air." I also accept his word that there are way more homeless here in Sonoma County than the Census chooses to acknowledge or believe exist. Point of Fact: an accurate Count can not be done in a single day.

If you would like to discuss the issue of the numbers with the Oracle on the bicycle, you may be able to meet him, if you show up at the Homeless Action ! meetings at the Methodist Church on Montgomery Avenue in Santa Rosa on Mondays at 9:30. His name is Eddie.

As far as the other fellow - the man from Vancouver - all I can say is that he too, seems credible. And, when I do the web search, spinning the words, "Vancouver, Homeless, 2019, 2020 (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Vancouver%2C+homeless%2C+2019%2C+2020&t=osx&ia=web)," a lot comes up. That's all I know. I haven't been to Vancouver myself since the early 70's. I'm an armchair traveler now. And I agree with you both - Capitalism - especially the greedy, ideological bastard variety of it - is the root of this sickness.

[Mayacaman]

for any social issue, I like to look back and see first, if it's really new; and second, what is different than what came before.

This one baffles me. We do have precedents; the Hoovervilles, for one. Hobos were a 'thing', as were Gypsies, etc. So pretty clearly we haven't historically done a great job of housing everyone. Half-seriously, maybe it's because KMart tents are only a few bucks, so now people can have shelter out where we can all see them. Maybe the cops used to run people off more effectively. Or maybe there really were fewer homeless people because rents were cheaper. But it's not like there's tons of unused housing that the poor can't afford. Or, maybe I'm wrong, is there? I know a lot of high-end properties sit empty, plus there are "investment properties" sitting open like the one in Oakland that's attracted such attention. I wouldn't expect that to be enough to account for the current situation.

Yes, Peter, We do have precedents. It's been going on for ten thousand years. And, sure enough, rents were way less - even twenty years ago. My Okie friend informs me that there are plenty of empty old houses back in Oklahoma - in the present. But one needs scratch {$$} - and a job - to make the rent. Meanwhile, for the folks on the Joe Rodota<style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-alt:"Times New Roman"; mso-font-charset:77; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-format:other; mso-font-pitch:auto; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;}</style> Trail , Woody Guthrie's old song still describes the situation...It's an old song.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x0R4sF4Aaw?

[DavidMySky]

It might be cheaper in dollars and cents to live in Oklahoma, but the culture tax will kill you.



Yes, Peter, We do have precedents. It's been going on for ten thousand years. And, sure enough, rents were way less - even twenty years ago. My Okie friend informs me that there are plenty of empty old houses back in Oklahoma - in the present. But one needs scratch {$$} - and a job - to make the rent. Meanwhile, for the folks on the Joe Rodota<style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-alt:"Times New Roman"; mso-font-charset:77; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-format:other; mso-font-pitch:auto; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;}</style> Trail , Woody Guthrie's old song still describes the situation...It's an old song.


"How Can You Keep On Moving Unless You Migrate Too? (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22How+Can+You+Keep+On+Moving%22+song&t=osx&ia=web)"

[podfish]

:spanking:
Yes, D'Souza is a wack job and even though he documents everything he says, he should be dismissed.was that an agreement, or ironic?

[cyberanvil]

was that an agreement, or ironic?

Door #2.

[rossmen]

You're right about the arrest threat for the vast majority, news is it seems to be working, they're moving on. Only a few of the twelve mill goes to the temp? Oakmont village. The biggest chunk is to buy a few houses for permanent supportive or transitional shelter. Some goes to supportive county agencies or nonprofit budgets. There is also funding for two long term sanctioned camping spots, locations to be determined, the county is looking for proposals.


I must admit that I haven't followed all the details of the Trail people relocation, but it seems lacking. Basically, the County is spending almost 12 million dollars to provide for 60 people and all the rest will be arrested if they don't skeedadle. Is this it in a nutshell?<style type="text/css">p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px 'Lucida Grande'}</style>

[podfish]

... The biggest chunk is to buy a few houses for permanent supportive or transitional shelter. Some goes to supportive county agencies or nonprofit budgets. There is also funding for two long term sanctioned camping spots, locations to be determined, the county is looking for proposals.that's a good observation. It's easy to take 12 million divided by a few hundred and think it's a ridiculous amount of money. But it's not like they're buying donuts & coffee with it. There's a healthy chunk that's much longer term

[cyberanvil]

that's a good observation. It's easy to take 12 million divided by a few hundred and think it's a ridiculous amount of money. But it's not like they're buying donuts & coffee with it. There's a healthy chunk that's much longer term

If the county hasn't determined the solutions, how did they decide on the 12 million? Is this a case of the cart before the horse?

[Farmer Lynda]

Thoughts on the Joe Rodota Trail (JRT) Clearing & Closure

On Friday afternoon — between visits to the JRT and meetings with County and city staff — a KQED reporter asked me a question about the ongoing clearing of the JRT encampment.

I was explaining that we’d had zero arrests, that we were continuing to offer services to residents as we were clearing the trail, that we hadn’t run out of shelter beds, that we were offering storage for each and every person’s belongings.

“So, would you say it’s a success?” the reporter asked, in a well-intentioned way.

The word “success” gave me pause. Actually, it made me want to scream. On the one hand, Friday was a day of witnessing regular human beings doing amazing things.

I can’t say enough good things about County staff. Regional Parks rangers turned into social workers and performed the hard work of enforcement with dignity, humanity, and respect— with heart, and without a single arrest.

Our actual social and healthcare workers went above and beyond the call of duty to try to help trail residents. It was professional, but it was also personal. One fostered cats from the trail in his own home, returned the cats to the owner spayed and neutered, and is now fostering them again until the owner has a permanent place to live. Meanwhile, volunteers and advocates worked alongside County staff to convince more trail residents to accept services, to move to Los Guilicos Village, to go to a shelter. They helped people pack. They fought through their own, and their clients’, tears and frustration.

On Friday, everyone was working as hard as they possibly could with the absolute best of intentions and it didn’t matter who you were or what your job title was. Our Director of Regional Parks pushed a cart full of a homeless man’s belongings along the trail for him, just as our Director of Permit Sonoma had dug postholes out at Los Guilicos Village to get the village open in time for the camp closure. Names were crossed out on lists, new names written, as people accepted services, rejected them, and sometimes accepted them again. As night fell I was on Sharpie duty, writing people’s names on duct tape stuck to plastic totes, readying their belongings for storage. One woman had suffered a concussion and couldn’t be near the bright lights that had been set up so staff could continue working. We made a space in a darkened area for her to inventory her belongings before they moved onto storage.

But at the end of the day, even if you succeed in clearing the trail in as dignified and humane a manner as possible, there is nothing “successful” about clearing a trail of more than 200 unsheltered residents. Because at the end of the day, there are broken people made more broken. At the end of the day, there are people who refuse to accept services who wind up sitting with the only things they own on the planet heaped high on a sidewalk… people confused, walking into traffic… people with crazy contraptions carrying their belongings perched precariously on bikes setting off for an unknown destination without heat, without electricity, without running water, without a toilet.

Because at the end of the day, even if every single trail resident had accepted our services, 200 people on a trail is less than TEN PERCENT of our homeless population countywide.

Did you know that some people were treated in a hospital for severe injuries or potentially fatal illnesses — and were discharged to recover in their tents on the JRT? Did you know that trail residents included pregnant women and transitional aged youth? Did you know that of Sonoma County’s total population, 1.6% are black, but that black people made up 5% of the trail’s population? Did you know that some people would leave the trail to go to work, and return to find their belongings stolen?

This is a racial justice issue. This is a generational justice issue. And of course, this is also about mental healthcare access, lack of affordable housing, an underfunded safety net, opioid overprescription, and a whole host of other things.

At the end of the day the thing that keeps going through my mind is this: our world breaks people, and we don’t have the resources to help them put themselves back together. Like the nursery rhyme.

The trail needed to be cleared. The trail was a public health and safety hazard for trail residents and neighbors. The trail was cleared, and Friday was a day of humans trying to help other humans in an imperfect world and imperfect system.

But we shouldn’t use the word “success” until we have solutions for the 2,000+ people living on the streets of Sonoma County.

[arthunter]

Kind Lynda, I have seen you in action many times and wish to thank you for the dedication to our community that I see.

The idea that this is a simple, easily correctable problem is naive. As someone who tried to help the homeless directly, I can say that some of the underlying issues that contribute to this massive problem are not being addressed. I am now in danger of losing my home because I didn't recognize the symptoms of meth addiction until it was too late. I took in three people who stopped paying rent and wouldn't leave, leaving me hard pressed to finance my pricey Sonoma County rental as a senior citizen, without long, drawn out court battles. I have two friends who experienced the same thing and lost their homes.

I talked to my doctor about this and she confirmed that it's a mega problem in Sonoma County. When will the drug problem be addressed as one of the most critical aspects of this whole mess? I never would have guessed that it would be my compassion for my fellow man which would take me down.

Thoughts on the Joe Rodota Trail (JRT) Clearing & Closure On Friday afternoon ...

[patnicholson]

CRLA, legal aid, the senior center, can offer legal services based on ability to pay.

you can call or walk in to talk to them.

511 or 211 may also provide resources, if you are unable to hire an atty.

it's possible the small claims court advisor could assist you. Good Luck.



... I am now in danger of losing my home because I didn't recognize the symptoms of meth addiction until it was too late. I took in three people who stopped paying rent and wouldn't leave, leaving me hard pressed to finance my pricey Sonoma County rental as a senior citizen, without long, drawn out court battles. I have two friends who experienced the same thing and lost their homes.
...

[OldGranddad]

Homeless

We spent the weekend in San Francisco for the first time in years. We went to breakfast at an “in” restaurant in the Tenderloin area. We found a parking place a block and a half away and walked. The sidewalk was lined on the curb side and the building side with tents and sleeping bags with only a foot and a half down the middle to walk on. I saw people living in abject misery without hope. Images of prisoners at Auschwitz sprang to mind. In my area we have the Joe Rodota hiking trail lined with tents. This was orders of magnitude worse. I looked into the eyes of those people and smelled their smells and lost my appetite. I was overcome with grief and sadness and, because I am old and not as “evolved” as I’d like to be, expressed my feelings in anger and probably ruined breakfast for my family. I was consumed with guilt seeing the disparity between those people on the street and the fancy, pricey breakfast menu. How can this happen in a land of such wealth and plenty? Where are our hearts? We are as guilty as the Nazis.

This problem has existed in San Francisco for far longer than the thirty-five years I have been there. Every so often a Band-Aid is applied, but there has never been a real solution. The left focuses on the rights of the homeless and thinks they should be able to camp on the street. The right blames the situation on the homeless and thinks they should be responsible for fixing it. Both sides are unreasonable and both sides are wrong.

I realize that many good people and organizations have done many things to alleviate the problem and even the “government” has kicked in once in a while, but the sad fact is that homelessness has persisted throughout our history. Without an overall framework provided by the Federal government this problem will never have a real solution. Without recognizing homelessness as a national catastrophe that we, as a nation are all responsible for curing, there is no hope.

Those people on the street have rights, but so do I. You and I should be able to walk on public property without seeing hands begging for money and the horrible conditions in which those people exist. They, on the other hand, have the right to a reasonable life. The question is, how can both sets of rights be satisfied fairly? Simply incarcerating them recognizes my rights and further violates theirs. How can we be fair to both?

We could build centers to house them reasonably and provide all the medical care, both physical and mental, they need. We could educate them and give them the tools to provide for themselves. Those who haven’t the capacity to succeed in the outside world could be trained to help run the centers in a safe environment. I suppose that we could provide a sanitary campground for the ones that prefer to stay in the outdoors. Needless to say, they would not have a choice about going to the center. Also, begging and squatting on public land would be made a crime. Those who pass through the center more than twice would be put in jail. Sound Draconian? Perhaps, but it would satisfy both sets of rights in a constructive way.

If we made these decisions it would then be time to work on partial measures to implement the plan. Starting with partial measures with no idea of where they lead will guarantee that a good solution will never be reached. Relying on charity will do the same.

The cost to implement such a plan would be great, but the cost to our souls if we don’t will be far greater. We are an affluent country and can well afford to do this. It is time to educate all of our young so that they might be able to care for themselves properly. In addition to alleviating homelessness, this would also be a great leap forward in coming closer to the ideals upon which our country was founded. The sad fact is that we place little value on educating all of our children. It is time that we have fair tax laws and that the rich pay their fair share. It is time to get money out of politics. If this does not happen soon, it is time for revolution.
Shame on you, San Francisco. Shame on you, California. Shame on you, Uncle Sam!

Old Granddad

[arthunter]

Bless you Pat! ... I am receiving help through legal aid and they are a wonderful organization. A friend has offered me lodging should I need it.

I want to emphasize that these tenants are not bad people, in fact they're brilliant professional people, every one of them. They are just addicts. The number one reason for addiction is trauma and I am supportive of trauma victims when I can be.

Portugal is now focused on voluntary drug treatment instead of jail time and it's working well for them. Free treatment here without fear of incarceration might help as would drug education in our schools. We are losing valuable people and endangering our communities by not doing anything.

CRLA, legal aid, the senior center, can offer legal services based on ability to pay....

[Shandi]

Beautifully and soulfully expressed. Who was it that said "The poor you will always have with you"? Are we being Christ-like to accept this? Maybe better to reflect on this "there but for the grace of God go I". We can never truly relate to other's misfortune until we've walked a mile in their shoes (or their shoeless feet).

Sometimes compassion must be born out of experience, rather than in-born or taught. Babies don't hate unless they're taught to, with words and actions. They also aren't natural survivors, and come in, dependent on caregivers for the first few years. They also learn from what they hear and observe. Imagine what the homeless and encamped/imprisoned children are learning. (Here and everywhere on the planet) Whatever it is, that will be passed on, if they survive. Will they become a new breed of criminals, rising up from being despised and hated? We already know that this is the seed of violence against the self and others. Are we unconsciously contributing to that which we hate? Just something to consider.... Are we part of the problem, or part of the solution?


Homeless

We spent the weekend in San Francisco for the first time in years. ...

[podfish]

Beautifully and soulfully expressed. Who was it that said "The poor you will always have with you"? Are we being Christ-like to accept this?note the context of that quote. It wasn't implying unconcern, it was an acknowledgment - from someone who was known to take care of the poor - that the caregivers themselves deserved care as well, that this is an ongoing duty, not a solvable and temporary problem.

[Shandi]

Compassion doesn't take us down; it's acting with compassion directly (person to person) without due diligence, or if our compassion serves us in some way, which creates a positive perception fed by our own needs. (monthly rent)

When we need to pay the rent, we can be taken in by the appearance and wonderful sounding people who apply for our rental.

I've experienced this myself, actually more than once. Not vetting people properly has cost me thousands of dollars and peace of mind, in addition to a severe threat to my mental and physical health. (more than once!)

It also contributes to fear of renting out an extra room or two, even when we could use the financial help. I know a woman who has a 5 bedroom house, with 4 of those rooms filled with "stuff", which is much safer than having people in them. Another woman has a room reserved for her cat, rather than a human.

Human beings are complex, and all carry hidden secrets, some more damaging than others. I still don't trust myself to bring a stranger into my space. I've been my own worst enemy, always looking for the "good" in people. If someone is living on the fringe, it can mean that they have been marginalized by any number of things, possibly for a long time. Anyone who has experienced this from their own family, knows the damage it can do on so many levels.

I understand that SHARE Sonoma County does free vetting of both parties, but I don't know the extent of that, or how successful their matches are for the majority of those who've used the service.

I know of a home (compound)that's owned by meth addicts in Sebastopol, and a rental will soon be available, since my friend who rented a room there, recently committed suicide. They probably won't advertise it, but will draw from their meth friends.

I also know of a wonderful rental that's recently become available, since being vacated by mentally ill tenants, who put up a great front, only 5 months ago. They left without paying the last month's rent, and a mess for my disabled friend to clean up. There's more to the story, which includes the previous tenant now sending threatening texts. Scary and unnerving for a conscious, kind, and compassionate landlord.

Protecting ourselves from this kind of thing is a priority for our well-being. But how?


...As someone who tried to help the homeless directly, I can say that some of the underlying issues that contribute to this massive problem are not being addressed. I am now in danger of losing my home because I didn't recognize the symptoms of meth addiction until it was too late. ..

[cyberanvil]

Are we unconsciously contributing to that which we hate? Just something to consider.... Are we part of the problem, or part of the solution?

History seems to indicate that we can be both. It's called reality.
:2cents:

[cyberanvil]

Not just JRT, but for homelessness in general, does this make sense? Thoughts.

The Only Plan to End Homelessness
https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/the-only-plan-to-end-homelessness/

[arthunter]

Yes, vetting is extremely important and I've shared my home constantly for the last 15 years without serious problems because of it. In this case I did the usual background checks, asked the pertinent questions and felt inclined to help because they were employed by a friend and acting responsibly. We are talking about a former banking professional and a pharmaceutical research assistant here, .. Good backgrounds ... They were fighting corruption ...They were homeless because they had been flooded out of their home, and it was an emergency situation, so there's your lesson, be careful in emergencies with hasty decisions ... I charged them much less then the going rate because they had lost so much but yes, I must pay my own bills on time ... Strangely, their lives became full of mishap shortly after they moved in ... Like I said, trauma can produce addiction. Lesson #2.

It's sad, all of it, because you're right, we become cautious and distrustful ..
Compassion doesn't take us down; it's acting with compassion directly (person to person) without due diligence,...

[podfish]

Not just JRT, but for homelessness in general, does this make sense? Thoughts?the thoughts are that he's engaging in hyperbole, probably on purpose, since he clearly should know his stuff. It's not the "only plan", in fact it's not a complete plan. It's only for the population that he's been dealing with for 30yrs - the truly mentally ill. There are many more homeless who aren't in need of institutionalization. He's got nothing for them. He's got nothing for those who aren't successfully self-supporting in our current economy. Those people tend to be viewed unsympathetically as if they could just buckle down, be more personally responsible, and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. The homeless and near-homeless I know are much more likely to be in the latter category. I can imagine a society where they'd thrive, but this one's too unforgiving.

That said, one of the reason the mentally ill are in the streets is because it costs so damn much to treat them, (in the vein of "the rent's too damn high") and it was a fantasy to think that people would accept the taxation necessary to support them once the institutions were closed. I suspect those proposing closing the institutions knew that at the time, too. People won't vote for more taxes for that, they just want the politicians to stop wasting money on whatever people assume they're wasting it on, so that priorities like this can be funded magically.

[finnie]

For all the verbiage, homeless solutions can be distilled into a simple formula:

STABILITY FIRST - that means 1) a safe place to live and 2) wraparound services (medical, behavioral health, substance abuse rehab, job training etc.

It's not either/or - it's both.

[Mayacaman]

This article in the L.A. Times indicates that the push to evict the homeless from the Joe Rodota Trail - and everywhere else - is coming from the President of the United States. Can anyone in local government confirm this?

https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2020-02-06/homeless-police-trump-santa-rosa-clear-encampment

However, there was one positive item in President Trump's State of the Union message that has bearing on where the able-bodied and non-drug-addled Homeless may find work & shelter. And that's his pitch to plant a "trillion trees (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump%2C+state+of+union%2C+2020%2C+trillion+trees&t=osx&ia=news)." Some of the less-damaged souls who are on the streets would jump at that opportunity, were it packaged and presented to them in a manner that they could hear.

Couple the work of Reforestation with the Homesteading option (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?131920-Open-Committee-Toward-Solutions-On-the-Homeless-Crisis&p=229738#post229738) that I have been pitching on the other thread - for the "Homeless" need permanent "Homes" - and we have the Solution for housing and employment for fifteen to twenty percent of those who are currently on the streets of our cities.

Adrienne Lauby of Homeless Action! who knows the turf, and knows her Homeless, thinks that about twenty percent of the Homeless are capable of staying with a Homestead until it is perfected. These are the very people who would make ideal tree-planters.

Acreage that is adjacent to or enclosed within the burned hills & timber-lands of California, Oregon, Washington and Idaho - as well as acreage in Nevada - acreage that is suitable for human habitation and tiny villages of 160 acres, should be made available for Homesteading.

It really doesn't matter if the Land in question is owned by the States, the timber corporations, or by the Bureau of Land Management. What is essential is that the branches of government co-ordinate this effort, and achieve the elegant solution of alleviating the Homeless/Housing Crisis and at the same time, accomplish the necessary task of Planting Trees...

With regards to the following article, cyberanvil. Yes, the Doctor does present a serious program for those among the homeless who are mentally ill and addicted to heroin and methedrine. There is some merit in it. But not all of the Homeless are crazy. Some of them are quite sane, and have simply lost their homes.

https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/the-only-plan-to-end-homelessness/

Some of the people whose marginal existence in Society was made painfully obvious to the rest of us in Sonoma County by the encampment on the Joe Rodota Trail should find permanent housing in facilities like the Sonoma Developmental Center. That is because some of those folks can not take care of themselves. Some would do better in halfway houses until they can get back on their feet.

But others - the twenty percent or so whom Adrienne Lauby counts among the capable - should be given the opportunity to plant the One Trillion trees that the President has decreed & at the same time, Occupy and develop a Homestead.

[finnie]

Here's a thought for all those of good conscience with compassion.
To avoid getting burnt (or burned out) I suggest these thoughts, which I find to be good guidance:

Ghandi: "I am a practical realist."

Al-anon: "Detach with love."

:heart:

[DavidMySky]

Planting all those trees would be a fantastic project, but I don't believe a single word that ever comes out of trump's* mouth for even a minute. I'll believe it when the trees are planted. If you believe he's going to follow through with that... there's this bridge...

Mexico will pay for the wall.
I will eradicate ISIS in the first 30 days.
16K+ lies since ID2017 and counting.



... And that's his pitch to plant a "trillion trees (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump%2C+state+of+union%2C+2020%2C+trillion+trees&t=osx&ia=news)." ...

[cyberanvil]

Mark Evans (aka Mayacaman) writes




With regards to the following article, cyberanvil. Yes, the Doctor does present a serious program for those among the homeless who are mentally ill and addicted to heroin and methedrine. There is some merit in it. But not all of the Homeless are crazy. Some of them are quite sane, and have simply lost their homes.


And yet I can't help but think that those in need most are the ones that are getting less attention.

[cyberanvil]

For all the verbiage, homeless solutions can be distilled into a simple formula:

STABILITY FIRST - that means 1) a safe place to live and 2) wraparound services (medical, behavioral health, substance abuse rehab, job training etc.

It's not either/or - it's both.

And what happens to those with behavioral health and substance abuse issues when they refuse help/treatment?

[cyberanvil]

Planting all those trees would be a fantastic project, but I don't believe a single word that ever comes out of trump's* mouth for even a minute. I'll believe it when the trees are planted. If you believe he's going to follow through with that... there's this bridge...

Mexico will pay for the wall.
I will eradicate ISIS in the first 30 days.
16K+ lies since ID2017 and counting.

Try to be more positive. I wasn't crushed when Obama failed on the shovel ready jobs, Solyndra or "you can keep your doctor". :wink:

[cyberanvil]

the thoughts are that he's engaging in hyperbole, probably on purpose, since he clearly should know his stuff. It's not the "only plan",...

True, the Doctor is more focused on larger concentrations (like SF) where mental illness and drug addition is more prevalent, but it could still be applied. Right now, those in need most (to my mind those with drug and mental issues) are allowed to exist in a land of their concoction far far away.
Perhaps we don't need Bullet Trains and SMART trains and should spend our money in other areas.

[DavidMySky]

Obama was far from perfect, but he did not intentionally lie several times a day the way trump* does. Obama has class. trump* is an ass, and that's being nice. As far as the doctor quote, the GOP watered down the ACA with almost 200 amendments in their failed attempt to sink it. You can hang that one on the GOP.


Try to be more positive. I wasn't crushed when Obama failed on the shovel ready jobs, Solyndra or "you can keep your doctor". :wink:

[cyberanvil]

​Mark Evans (aka Mayacaman) writes

This article in the L.A. Times indicates that the push to evict the homeless from the Joe Rodota Trail - and everywhere else - is coming from the President of the United States. Can anyone in local government confirm this?

https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2020-02-06/homeless-police-trump-santa-rosa-clear-encampment


Your spin is creative I must say. How did you get from A to B? I will say (from the article) ---


Carson also said state officials needed to “uncuff law enforcement so that people can be removed now and placed in transitional places.”

A recent Times poll found that a large majority of L.A. County voters (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-11-19/homeless-poll-police-enforcement-street-encampment)believe police should be more active (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-11-19/homeless-poll-police-enforcement-street-encampment) in addressing homelessness.

Gov. Gavin Newsom has spoken about the need to revise the state’s law governing conservatorships, potentially expanding the number of people who can be forced into treatment. It’s an idea that, on the street level, could involve using law enforcement to help identify and detain homeless people to be conserved.

:thumbsup:

[Mayacaman]

cyberanvil wrote:

Your spin is creative I must say. How did you get from A to B? I will say (from the article) ---


Actually, Jefferson, I was just relating the spin that the L.A. Times put on the story - our local event - for the headline itself said:

Trump wants California cops to evict homeless people. They don’t want that ‘dirty’ job

Now, one may quibble with that all one wants. Perhaps the MSM is being unfair to the poor beleaguered POTUS, and blaming him for something he didn't actually do. Maybe it's the "Deep State" shifting the onus onto Donald Trump, when the orders actually came down from the Governor. I, personally, do not know who was behind the order to evict our local derelicts from their precarious perch on the side of highway 12.

But what I do know - and sense, in my heart - is that the "problem" is far from solved. - And that we, who have houses, are not any safer or more secure now that the eyesore of the encampment is gone. Indeed, what the eviction has done is just move the problem into other fields and multiply the suffering of those who had obtained a temporary respite and a small semblance of community.

What must needs happen for the problem to be "solved" is for Land / lands to be made available for the poor to Pasture (https://biblehub.net/search.php?q=Pasture) upon. That's what the Bible - the notorious "Good Book" - calls it - Pasture (https://biblehub.net/search.php?q=Pasture)...

[cyberanvil]

cyberanvil wrote:


Actually, Jefferson, I was just relating the spin that the L.A. Times put on the story - our local event - for the headline itself said:

Trump wants California cops to evict homeless people. They don’t want that ‘dirty’ job

Surely you'd agree that this is a bogus headline. Nothing new in La La land. But for you to give it any kind of credence is frankly disappointing from such a researcher of act.

[Mayacaman]

Planting all those trees would be a fantastic project, but I don't believe a single word that ever comes out of trump's* mouth for even a minute. I'll believe it when the trees are planted. ...

All well and good to be skeptical, David. But since Donald may very well remain the POTUS into 2025, We the People must hold his feet to the fire on this, his one bona fide, decent promise in the SOTU. What I have proposed is the elegant solution to solve two problems at once. Why do I bother? Because Donald needs to be presented with the Option of 'doing the right thing.'

I re-iterate:

Acreage that is adjacent to or enclosed within the burned hills & timber-lands of California, Oregon, Washington and Idaho - as well as acreage in Nevada - acreage that is suitable for human habitation and tiny villages of 160 acres, should be made available for Homesteading.

It really doesn't matter if the Land in question is owned by the States, the timber corporations, or by the Bureau of Land Management. What is essential is that the branches of government co-ordinate this effort, and achieve the elegant solution of alleviating the Homeless/Housing Crisis and at the same time, accomplish the necessary task of Planting Trees...

[Mayacaman]

cyberanvil wrote:


Surely you'd agree that this is a bogus headline. Nothing new in La La land. But for you to give it any kind of credence is frankly disappointing from such a researcher of act.
No, I don't surely agree that it is a bogus headline. In truth, I have no inside information concerning the veracity -or- non-veracity of that headline. That is why I asked for someone - anyone - in our local {county} government to either confirm - or negate - the truth or falseness of the headline:

Trump wants California cops to evict homeless people. They don’t want that ‘dirty’ job (https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2020-02-06/homeless-police-trump-santa-rosa-clear-encampment)

[cyberanvil]

Mark Evans (aka Mayacaman) writes




No, I don't surely agree that it is a bogus headline. In truth, I have no inside information concerning the veracity -or- non-veracity of that headline. That is why I asked for someone - anyone - in our local {county} government to either confirm - or negate - the truth or falseness of the headline:

Trump wants California cops to evict homeless people. They don’t want that ‘dirty’ job (https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2020-02-06/homeless-police-trump-santa-rosa-clear-encampment)

And again, that's what's so disappointing. You, the great researcher is throwing out a bone to the hungry Left without doing your own research, it's not that hard.
Surely you know that Gavin would never consider a Trump plan unless it involved getting free money. And Trump isn't a dummy, he'd never offer.

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit.

BTW, I've developed a Maya II homeless plan. It has little chance of success, but more than your BLM relocation of untrained townies in order to build a wilderness wonderland. Details to follow.
Forty acres and a mule

[DavidMySky]

trump* do the right thing?! 😂🤣😂🤣
Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.


All well and good to be skeptical, David. But since Donald may very well remain the POTUS into 2025, We the People must hold his feet to the fire on this, his one bona fide, decent promise in the SOTU. What I have proposed is the elegant solution to solve two problems at once. Why do I bother? Because Donald needs to be presented with the Option of 'doing the right thing.'

I re-iterate:

Acreage that is adjacent to or enclosed within the burned hills & timber-lands of California, Oregon, Washington and Idaho - as well as acreage in Nevada - acreage that is suitable for human habitation and tiny villages of 160 acres, should be made available for Homesteading.

It really doesn't matter if the Land in question is owned by the States, the timber corporations, or by the Bureau of Land Management. What is essential is that the branches of government co-ordinate this effort, and achieve the elegant solution of alleviating the Homeless/Housing Crisis and at the same time, accomplish the necessary task of Planting Trees...

[Mayacaman]

trump* do the right thing?! 藍藍
Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

I'm not holding my breath, David. But, as I said, "...Donald needs to be presented with the Option..."



All of Life is a matter of Choices. If Donald makes the wrong Choices, it is on him.

[finnie]

what about those who refuse treatment? not much can be done. we know that forcing treatment fails. but let's take care of the 90% who want help first. maybe those left behind will change their minds when they see their friends getting better.
and as far as the most vulnerable, they are the top priority for placement at los guilicos and for future villages, i'm told.
my biggest concern at the moment is the big cut that the leadership council just made to the budgets of those who are providing services. as it was, it wasn't nearly enough, especially in behavioral health services.
outrageous!

[DavidMySky]

He's had more than enough options, chances, and opportunities to do the right thing
He didn't have to fire the Vindmans and Sunderland.


...Why do I bother? Because Donald needs to be presented with the Option of 'doing the right thing.'...

[podfish]

Surely you'd agree that this is a bogus headline. Nothing new in La La land. But for you to give it any kind of credence is frankly disappointing from such a researcher of act.Yes, it's a slightly bogus headline. If you read past the headline you get:

In recent months, U.S. Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson, echoing rhetoric from President Trump about a possible crackdown on homeless encampments in California cities, called for “empowering and utilizing local law enforcement,” in a letter to Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti. In a Fox television interview, Carson also said state officials needed to “uncuff law enforcement so that people can be removed now and placed in transitional places.”

The media is quite annoying with their hunt for the equivalent of click-bait in headlines. They often imply something that the actual story doesn't actually state. I don't know why you think this isn't credible, it's very plausibly trumpy. It's just not necessarily true. So: given that the article doesn't actually make the claim, I don't think this deserves many pinocchios.

[finnie]

this is nothing new, friends - santa rosa pd has been doing this for years.
people are forced out under threat of arrest except that we don't have transitional places to send them.
we've had emergency warehouse shelters like sam jones (good for a stay of 6 months, max) and with the last rodota trail eviction, 60 people got cottages at los guilicos and at least 100 others had no place to go and have scattered to the winds.
carson's plan actually was a step up because he called for a place/s that would accommodate everybody. not that they exist, of course.

[cyberanvil]

He's had more than enough options, chances, and opportunities to do the right thing
He didn't have to fire the Vindmans and Sunderland.

He didn't have to? Really? They serve at the pleasure of the President. They can be dismissed at any time and for any reason. They are expected to carry out the Presidents agenda. BTW, Vindman was reassigned, so in reality he wasn't "fired." Vindman in particular was a leaker, one who disobeyed orders and was a never Trumper.

[Mayacaman]

I think that this conversation has digressed long enough from the topic at the top of the thread. Whether or not you consider it a possibility that the current Administration could round up & incarcerate masses of the homeless, or could even consider doing that as one of their “Options” -Or- Whether or not some among you are in denial about the very existence of the FEMA Camps, is not relevant to the subject at hand.

The encampment on Robles Road (https://www.facebook.com/SWBCSonoma/posts/144668437005603) has just been “moved on (https://www.lyricsfreak.com/r/ry+cooder/how+can+you+keep+on+moving_10245831.html).” Here is some footage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb1GK_dKNm4&feature=emb_logo)of the Sheriff's action. Thus the old story repeats itself: the same heartless, vicious approach of Herbert Hoover when he sent in the Cossacks with billyclubs to break up the Tent City of the Bonus Marchers (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bonus+marchers+1932&t=osx&atb=v182-1&iax=images&ia=images). Still no solutions as to where the homeless may find pasture.

It seems to me that there must be somewhere along Santa Rosa Avenue {on the east side of the avenue} within a mile of Friedman's that could serve as a permanent base for a Tent City & site for RV's, Campers, & Tiny Houses. Someone ought to diligently look into the potential of that neighborhood for a large lot that the City could buy with the help of the State. It is a central & accessible location; people could come and go, and the police could monitor it.

I am suggesting this as a possibility in addition to the temporary, band-aid “fix” of Los Guilicos, which is slated to end in April, anyway. There must needs be permanent Pasture (https://biblehub.net/search.php?q=Pasture) where the Homeless are always welcome to pitch their tents &/Or build a Tiny House of their own on a more or less permanent basis.

Beyond that, there needs to be the Option of Opening up the Public Lands to Homesteading; i.e., permanent Housing in more remote areas. – And I suggest that some of the recently burned-out forest lands of the North Coast might be suitable for small intentional communities. Specifically, the area to the west of Laytonville, where tens of thousands of acres have recently been burned. There, the able-bodied among the homeless could be put to work planting trees - forests of mixed conifers and hardwoods, and orchards of fruits and nuts.

Perhaps the local government here in Sonoma County could seriously consider the advantages of this Option, and push for this in the Present. You may call it the Mendocino Option - since there is plenty of recently scorched acreage in Mendocino County. This Option would alleviate the Supervisors of some of the 'headache' of what to do about the Homeless here, locally, and move a portion of the "solution" into rural areas in Mendocino County.

This option would also have the benefit of providing both housing and employment for those who are currently without. Plus, it would have the extra benefit of channeling the positive energy that some of these folks can produce into turf that could use some tender loving care.

It is 2020. If Donald Trump and Secretary Ben Carson will not rise to the plate to Open the so-called "Public Lands" to a new round of Homesteading, perhaps the Democrats can be persuaded to include this Idea as a Resolution & a Plank in their 2020 Platform. That is their Option. After all, there is plenty of Land (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=860vCVgy-uY&feature=emb_logo). North America - especially the Western half of it - is still a vast land, full of empty spaces.


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[finnie]

some good thoughts in here but one is troubling.
we can't think about resolving sonoma county's problems in mendocino county.
if all parties were willing, of course, it will work.
but perhaps it's best that we solve our county's emergency within the county.
onward!



... And I suggest that some of the recently burned-out forest lands of the North Coast might be suitable for small intentional communities. Specifically, the area to the west of Laytonville, where tens of thousands of acres have recently been burned. ...

[cyberanvil]

Mark Evans (aka Mayacaman) writes

... And I suggest that some of the recently burned-out forest lands of the North Coast might be suitable for small intentional communities. Specifically, the area to the west of Laytonville,...

I just don't see your plan as workable in any sense. Taking untrained townies (who are not Daniel Boon types) and planting them in some wilderness spot. A spot that is burned out or otherwise not at all inviting is ludicrous. Expecting them to fell trees, build cabins and all the infrastructure to sustain a village or commune. It just isn't happening. Support services, employment, etc, etc? Miles from regular habitation, where's an unemployed computer tech, office worker, welder, auto mechanic, etc. etc. going to work? Kudo's for the imagination, but -------------
:hmmm:

[karenm97]

I'm sure that there are not many to-be-developed lots on Santa Rosa Ave that have water, sewer, and electrical hookups. There are plenty of new units being built - maybe you mean to suggest that the city or county could take some of those over?

But let's return to your idea of setting up concentration camps for homeless people to "homestead" in burned forest areas These people who don't have the money to deal with basic living expenses will be, what, put out in the burned forest, away from all stores and services, and those who are well enough will be "put to work" planting trees? Slavery? Cruelty?

Wonder how much money you're thinking our county would pay Mendo to "take" our homeless folks.

[podfish]

But let's return to your idea of setting up concentration camps for homeless people to "homestead" in burned forest areas These people who don't have the money to deal with basic living expenses will be, what, put out in the burned forest, away from all stores and services, and those who are well enough will be "put to work" planting trees? Slavery? Cruelty?I don't think that's a fair representation of what MM is envisioning.

Just personally, if I suddenly had no assets at all, it might be attractive to have a nice cabin in the woods with some like-minded neighbors. With a good do-it-yourselfer attitude, a bit of a non-materialistic philosophy of life, and some basic resources, it might be a fine way to live. For me, way better than a dirty urban tent. But, I live out here in Sonoma county too. Most people attracted to places like SF, and even to Santa Rosa's city center, probably would feel like you say - forcibly separated from society. I still like his idea of creating neighborhoods for people who can't or won't compete. They just need to be in proximity to "the rest of us". It seems like a goal for civilization should be to remove basic food, basic shelter, and health care from the competitive capitalistic economy. The ones who thrive under this system get to set the rules for what kinds of attitudes, personality, and skills it takes to participate. Nature itself is even harsher, but shouldn't we try to be more humane and enlightened?

[Mayacaman]

finnie wrote:


some good thoughts in here but one is troubling. we can't think about resolving sonoma county's problems in mendocino county. if all parties were willing, of course, it will work. but perhaps it's best that we solve our county's emergency within the county.
onward!

Kathleen, we must think outside the little sandbox of Sonoma County. Most of those who are currently among the Homeless in Sonoma County came from elsewhere, and many of them would not mind going a few miles north of here - if they could find work and a safe place to pitch their tent at the same time.

When & If the bureaucrats in both Counties realize that roughly twenty percent of the Homeless can: A] Plant trees (@ piecework wages) & B] Homestead small plots of land & thus be off the streets, perhaps they will catch the vision that Land Reform coupled with Reforestation is the elegant solution, to two major issues.

cyberanvil wrote:


I just don't see your plan as workable in any sense. Taking untrained townies (who are not Daniel Boon types) and planting them in some wilderness spot. A spot that is burned out or otherwise not at all inviting is ludicrous. Expecting them to fell trees, build cabins and all the infrastructure to sustain a village or commune. It just isn't happening. Support services, employment, etc, etc? Miles from regular habitation, where's an unemployed computer tech, office worker, welder, auto mechanic, etc. etc. going to work?

It certainly is not for everyone, cyberanvil. But, after I had spent several days on the JRT, and had spoken with a number of able-bodied people about the option of A] Being paid by the government to plant trees, & B] Having the opportunity to patent a Homestead of either 4.444 or just under half an acre (depending on how much one could reasonably handle) everyone I spoke to said “Where can I do this?” & “Let me at it ! “


48846


After doing that field work, I ran the Idea by Adrienne Lauby of Homeless Action! -& Said that I thought roughly fifteen percent of the homeless folks I spoke with (especially the veterans among them) could handle the rigors of living in their tents in the woods, planting trees for their day jobs, and building their own rammed earth houses, brick by brick.

Adrienne Lauby warmed to the Idea, and stated emphatically that she thought that at least twenty percent of the Homeless that she knows in this County would be capable of sticking to it.

karenm97 wrote:

I'm sure that there are not many to-be-developed lots on Santa Rosa Ave that have water, sewer, and electrical hookups. There are plenty of new units being built - maybe you mean to suggest that the city or county could take some of those over?

Nope, I’m not suggesting that at all. I don’t think that it is the responsibility of any County to spend millions of dollars to house people. It shouldn’t fall on the Counties to provide housing for everyone, rent free.

The responsibility of alleviating the Homeless Crisis should be shared by the States and the Federal government - which, since the time of Ronald Reagan has steadily abrogated more & more responsibility of providing for the poor and those who are not able to function in a self-supporting manner. Sonoma Developmental Center is a perfect and safe place for some of the more dysfunctional folks who are currently living on the edge.

The SDC should be retrofitted no matter what the cost. A government that can spend 738 Billion dollars on more war toys for the benefit of the plutes (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22plutocrats%22+definition&t=osx&ia=web) ought to be able to retrofit a hospital. There should also be places in every county where the homeless can safely pitch their tents, without being hassled & continually moved on by the gendarmes. There should also be cheap State-subsidized hotels where down and out people can spend the night for five dollars.


“But let's return to your idea of setting up concentration camps for homeless people to "homestead" in burned forest areas…”

How could you possibly misread my words and attribute such vicious intentions into anything that I have written? When I wrote about the FEMA Camps, it was a warning that they do exist, and that Trump and Carson may indeed have those {very dark} intentions. Q. Just what did Ben Carson mean when he spoke of "clean places (https://www.foxnews.com/media/ben-carson-california-homeless-crisis)" where the homeless are to be put ?

My suggestion to put some of the homeless (the able ones) to work planting trees is one positive solution to the Homeless Crisis. It achieves the elegant solution (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/example/english/elegant-solution) of allowing People – Anybody: Boomers, Generation X’rs & Millennials - to obtain a parcel of land that, in the end shall be theirs to keep -and also- granting them meaningful Paid Labor, planting Trees. The Slogan is:


"Forty Acres, an Alaskan (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=alaskan+mobile+dimensional+mill&t=osx&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos), a Bobcat (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=backhoe%2C+bobcat&t=osx&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos) & a Cinva Earth Ram (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Cinva+Earth+Ram&t=osx&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos)"


If the Federal government can waste seven hundred and thirty-eight billions dollars on the DoD this year, they can also provide an Alaskan (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=alaskan+mobile+dimensional+mill&t=osx&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos), a Bobcat (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=backhoe%2C+bobcat&t=osx&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos) & a Cinva Earth Ram (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Cinva+Earth+Ram&t=osx&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos) to every forty acre parcel that is established as the site of a Homestead patent. They can help do the deep drilling, down to primary water (http://www.primarywaterinstitute.org/evidence.html), so that even semi-arid lands can become viable for human habitation.

The Idea of Opening up the Public Lands to Homesteading does not equate with “putting the homeless in concentration camps.” How could you come up with such a baseless slurring of my meaning Karen? I suggest that you take a serious -and long- look at the many articles I have posted on the other thread (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?131920-Open-Committee-Toward-Solutions-On-the-Homeless-Crisis) here on WaccoBB. Then you would understand where I am coming from, and would not attribute such vile sentiments to me.



“These people who don't have the money to deal with basic living expenses will be, what, put out in the burned forest, away from all stores and services, and those who are well enough will be "put to work" planting trees? Slavery? Cruelty?”

What I am proposing, Karen is that the Federal government spend several Billion dollars to provide jobs and services for the million or so people who are currently homeless in America. – And that selected portions of the vast open spaces of the West be made available for Homesteading, once again.

The Federal Budget for the Department of Defense is 738 Billion dollars for fiscal 2020. To me that is obscene. I do not support the notion of unlimited spending on Welfare; but the basic needs of American citizens are far more important and pressing than the bottomless hunger of the military-industrial complex.

I know, from talking to people on the JRT, that the able-bodied among the homeless would much rather be gainfully employed planting trees in the wilderness & reforesting the scarred terrain – with the assistance of professional foresters - and simultaneously building their own houses, on parcels that shall become their own property.


“Wonder how much money you're thinking our county would pay Mendo to "take" our homeless folks.”

None. That is not in the equation. Both Counties are Departments of the State of California.



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[finnie]

The notion that most of the unsheltered here came from elsewhere is just plain wrong.
According to the January 2019 Homeless Census, 87% of the homeless in Sonoma County lived in Sonoma County prior to be becoming homeless.
As for the statement that "many" of those here "would not mind going a few miles north...." I am compelled to ask how many of the 3,000 such individuals here have personally told you that? And what is referred to as "a few miles" north is actually more than 100 miles from northern Santa Rosa.


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[tommy]

Some of these ideas are very nice... but a significant portion of the unsheltered people are dysfunctional. This includes the mentally ill, those with health problems, drug dependent, alcoholics, those old, tired & broke.

Some of those (or those in past years) used to depend on public services, mental hospitals, and public housing, that is no longer available. Unless our government provides for those individuals, they will always be camped in tents under the freeway.

[podfish]

Some of these ideas are very nice... but ...yeah, when I say "creating neighborhoods" I mean something really broad. The kind of thing that the city setup on the east side of town, with a smaller footprint -- and probably several of them -- would be necessary. In a way, the Rodota trail encampment is a model of what the unsheltered people prefer over current shelters. It seems like a solution that varies too far from that is likely to fail again. Fix the problems: tarps & tents are no good, lack of sanitation is no good, poor security is a problem, lack of access to services is a problem. Each bit independently isn't hard to address except for money and nimby. Those hurdles are overcome for other installations a city requires, so they need to be overcome for this too. As you point out, the alternative of having people under the freeway isn't any better in the eyes of the critics. The critics whose only solution is to move 'm out somewhere else, I don't feel a need to placate.

[finnie]

it's worth taking a close look at why hundreds of people would rather live in terrible circumstances in the cold, wet winter rather than take a bed in an emergency warehouse shelter.
i think it boils down to freedom and privacy with community.
so what homeless action! and savs are proposing - inexpensive transitional villages with private cottages, security, hygiene and services is a no-brainer. except, it would seem, for our so-called housing experts who refuse to consider this very model that's successful all over the country. guess the big developers who hold powerful sway in this county, won't make enough money on these villages. but the fact is, the taxpayers are taking a real hit on what it costs for emergency services for those who are unsheltered. not to speak of about $100 million a year to try to prevent the empty chanate complex from being vandalized. we're paying for that too. outrageous!

[Mayacaman]

finnie wrote:
The notion that most of the unsheltered here came from elsewhere is just plain wrong.
According to the January 2019 Homeless Census, 87% of the homeless in Sonoma County lived in Sonoma County prior to be becoming homeless.

As for the statement that "many" of those here "would not mind going a few miles north...." I am compelled to ask how many of the 3,000 such individuals here have personally told you that? And what is referred to as "a few miles" north is actually more than 100 miles from northern Santa Rosa.

I’m not trying to move anyone on, Kathleen. The governor, Gavin Newsom passed the buck on the homeless situation in San Francisco when he was the mayor there. He said that most of the homeless in S.F. came from Texas. Some of them may have.

I am sure you are right about the 87% having lived here before they became homeless. -But that doesn’t mean that they were born here. Many of them were not. I wasn’t born here. -And it doesn’t mean that those who have become Homeless here in Sonoma County must needs stay here, either. Americans are a mobile people - they have always been so. -Especially here in California, where people move around like popcorn popping.

All I know is that everyone on the Joe Rodota Trail to whom I spoke about the tree-planting & Homestead option said “Where?” & “Let me at it !” That indicates to me that many would be willing to relocate. No one should be forced to go anywhere. It must be completely voluntary.



it's worth taking a close look at why hundreds of people would rather live in terrible circumstances in the cold, wet winter rather than take a bed in an emergency warehouse shelter. i think it boils down to freedom and privacy with community.

so what homeless action! and savs are proposing - inexpensive transitional villages with private cottages, security, hygiene and services is a no-brainer. except, it would seem, for our so-called housing experts who refuse to consider this very model that's successful all over the country. guess the big developers who hold powerful sway in this county, won't make enough money on these villages. but the fact is, the taxpayers are taking a real hit on what it costs for emergency services for those who are unsheltered. not to speak of about $100 million a year to try to prevent the empty chanate complex from being vandalized. we're paying for that too. outrageous!

Yea & Amen !


There are plenty of burned out areas in this County that could stand some reforestation & horticultural restoration. -For instance, the hills that were burned in the Kincaid fire. If land could be secured in the vicinity of those thousands of acres for Homeless settlements, it would be convenient. For the Homeless do not only need pasture where they may dwell safely without being continually moved on & "Swept" away; they could also use meaningful employment.

The beauty of putting the homeless to work planting trees & sowing grasses on burned hillsides is that it is work that can be learned, given competent instructors. If the wages are paid on the basis of piece work, it would allow for the workers to produce according to their own level of productivity. It would also be a wise move that would conserve money and prevent slacking on the part of the workers. They should be paid well for their piece work, after they have learned the trade.

I am just advocating that the Homeless be allowed the opportunity of obtaining a permanent Home - not a band-aid temporary “fix” on the order of Los Guilicos. -Too much like a FEMA Camp for my taste.



48852

FEMA Camp



The Housing & Homeless Crisis is a now a Global phenomenon. It is especially acute in the Western Hemisphere, in North America (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=homeless+in+north+america&t=osx&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images) and the perimeter around Mare Nostrum (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=teddy+roosevelt+big+stick+cartoon&t=osx&iax=images&ia=images). Why do you think so many people are coming up from Central America to the Mexican Border? It isn’t just because of Global warming. Several other several other factors are driving that Crisis.

Primary among which are lack of land (homes) & a dearth of jobs. The refugees at the Southern Border are being oppressed by the oligarchies in the countries of their origin – oligarchies that are kept, and have been maintained in power by the U.S. Fruit Company & the U.S. State Department for the last one hundred and twenty years - ever since the Spanish-American War.

If the Federal government were actually benign, and had the genuine interests of the Citizens at heart, they would make the "Public Lands (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=860vCVgy-uY&feature=emb_logo)" open to Homesteading – as they were in the Lower forty-eight up until 1976. What is needed - throughout the Western Hemisphere - is Land Reform. Here, in the United States, one Solution should present itself to every reasonable Mind : Occupy the Commons. Hopefully, it can be done lawfully, decently & in order.


(https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?131920-Open-Committee-Toward-Solutions-On-the-Homeless-Crisis&p=229720#post229720)
What Can Be Done On Our "Public Lands"? (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?131920-Open-Committee-Toward-Solutions-On-the-Homeless-Crisis&p=229720#post229720)

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[cyberanvil]

Mark Evans (aka Mayacaman) writes



There are plenty of burned out areas in this County that could stand some reforestation ...


It would seem that a large part of your plan is reforestation. So people will be trained and paid to dig a hole, plop in a sapling and then move on about 10,000 times. Not very efficient at all.

Planes Can Plant 1 Billion Trees A Year With Seed Bombs (https://www.sunnyskyz.com/blog/1467/Planes-Can-Plant-1-Billion-Trees-A-Year-With-Seed-Bombs)

And it's not like nothing is being done.

Reforestation (https://www.fs.fed.us/forestmanagement/vegetation-management/reforestation/index.shtml)


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[podfish]

It would seem that a large part of your plan is reforestation. So people will be trained and paid to dig a hole, plop in a sapling and then move on about 10,000 times. Not very efficient at all.<style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-alt:"Times New Roman"; mso-font-charset:77; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-format:other; mso-font-pitch:auto; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} @font-face {font-family:Georgia; panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-noshow:yes; color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-noshow:yes; color:purple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;}size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;}</style>but that should be a part of a system that's more friendly to the type of people who are having difficulty finding housing, or, for that matter, making sufficient income to pay for necessities. Efficiency isn't the point. If you take as a premise that it's cruel to withhold necessities of life from people who don't or can't buy into the current system, then you should welcome a chance for them to do something useful. This deals with the moral aspect of the issue too - often, people are accused of the heinous character flaw of being lazy, or of being willful freeloaders. And it's also clear that people are emotionally healthier if they contribute. So this kind of work is really appropriate to offer on many levels.

Plus, 'cuz a robot will soon be able to replace you, will you have the same philosophy then?

[cyberanvil]

but that should be a part of a system that's more friendly to the type of people who are having difficulty finding housing, or, for that matter, making sufficient income to pay for necessities. Efficiency isn't the point. If you take as a premise that it's cruel to withhold necessities of life from people who don't or can't buy into the current system, then you should welcome a chance for them to do something useful. This deals with the moral aspect of the issue too - often, people are accused of the heinous character flaw of being lazy, or of being willful freeloaders. And it's also clear that people are emotionally healthier if they contribute. So this kind of work is really appropriate to offer on many levels.

Plus, 'cuz a robot will soon be able to replace you, will you have the same philosophy then?

Doesn't much matter what my philosophy is, it will happen. BTW, you're not a Luddite are you? :wink:

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

Homeless planting trees and grasses on burned lands............humm I guess that's ok but our local environment has gone through burn and regrowth cycles for millions and millions of years. Left alone will continue to do so far better than we can ever hope to. Lets not be so arrogant that we think we could somehow do a better job.

Nature thrives in the absence of mans meddling.

[podfish]

...Left alone will continue to do so far better than we can ever hope to. ...the burn and regrowth cycles are largely man-made. Indigenous people all over the world have shaped it for a long time. Nature doesn't really believe in the concept of "better". The ice ages were kind of hard on the existing wildlife, for example - the migration caused by them isn't all that different than what will happen with AGW, 'cuz it's still climate change.

The arrogance consists in thinking we can control the outcome, not in having an effect. Think of beaver ponds and buffalo herds if you want a non-anthropoid example of animals changing the environment. Or, those damn photosynthesizing critters that put all that poisonous oxygen in the air, incidentally creating an environment ripe for uncontrollable fires.

[cyberanvil]

the burn and regrowth cycles are largely man-made.

I believe burn and regrowth cycles have always been a fact of nature. Problem is, mankind (in their infinite wisdom) has disrupted natures natural cycles.

One Pundit has opined.

"Fire suppression, in combination with other human-caused environmental changes, may have resulted in unforeseen consequences for natural ecosystems. Some large wildfires in the United States have been blamed on years of fire suppression and the continuing expansion of people into fire-adapted ecosystems. Land managers are faced with tough questions regarding how to restore a natural fire regime (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_regime), but allowing wildfires to burn is the least expensive and likely most effective method."

[rossmen]

What's really interesting about this is that our county, and I assume many others, has found ways to boot homeless, play wackamole with the least among us, despite recent court rulings. I assume that the reason the county could move on the Robles encampment next to the county bus yard is because none of the people living there had the resources or support to sue. As usual, the court goes to the king, though it's always worth a try if a really good knight shows up.

[cyberanvil]

What's really interesting about this is that our county, and I assume many others, has found ways to boot homeless, play wackamole with the least among us, despite recent court rulings. I assume that the reason the county could move on the Robles encampment next to the county bus yard is because none of the people living there had the resources or support to sue. As usual, the court goes to the king, though it's always worth a try if a really good knight shows up.

The 9th Circuit Court made a ruling in this matter, but it seems a bit sketchy to me.

From LA Times: Homeless people in California, Western states cannot be prosecuted for sleeping outside if shelter access is lacking, court rules (https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-homeless-9th-circuit-20180904-story.html)

“The 8th Amendment prohibits the imposition of criminal penalties for sitting, sleeping, or lying outside on public property for homeless individuals who cannot obtain shelter,” Berzon wrote.

The court said its holding was narrow. It does not require a city to allow anyone on public property at any time or mandate that cities provide adequate shelter.

Rather, the court said, “as long as there is no option of sleeping indoors, the government cannot criminalize indigent, homeless people for sleeping outdoors, on public property, on the false premise they had a choice in the matter.”

[rossmen]

This seems to be a rapidly evolving area of law. Locally there was an injunction signed by Santa Rosa and the county, with homeless plaintiffs aided by lawyers from homeless action, after the last big camp breakup in roseland. Guess who got housing then?

This time, after throwing up its hands for months, the county set up the Oakmont camp and prioritized housing the most vulnerable, ie people really wanting and needing services, also the most likely plaintiffs to work with homeless advocate lawyers. Then the county got around the injunction by declaring a health emergency and threatened arrest unless campers left. People did get two totes of free storage.

I saw a recent youtube video about another western city where the sheriff is writing just as many tickets for park dwellers, but instead of camping, it's for things like tying rope to trees. The question for our society is housing a right?


...

From LA Times: Homeless people in California, Western states cannot be prosecuted for sleeping outside if shelter access is lacking, court rules (https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-homeless-9th-circuit-20180904-story.html)

[podfish]

....The question for our society is housing a right?the "is XXX a right" position is tricky to me. I understand why some people want to go there. It opens up legal channels that aren't otherwise available, since by definition rights are protected by law.
Personally, though, for a variety of reasons I want to live in a society where everyone has housing, food and medical care, and just to be complete, has a chance for a way to pass the time in a rewarding way. "Pursuit of happiness" is so 18th-century. Let's shoot higher. Who wants to be comfortable by either ignoring the plight of their neighbors or even worse by becoming callous to it? I think providing housing for everyone improves the area more than fixing potholes. Not that we seem to be able to do that either.

[finnie]

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was passed by the United Nations in 1948.
Please see Article 25.

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Documents/UDHR_Translations/eng.pdf


the "is XXX a right" position is tricky to me....

[cyberanvil]

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was passed by the United Nations in 1948.
Please see Article 25.

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Documents/UDHR_Translations/eng.pdf

Yep, the UN sure has been busy.



The International Convention on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (1965).
The International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (1966).
The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (1966).
The Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (1979).
The Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (1984).
The Convention on the Rights of the Child (1989).
other international agreements have stemmed from the UDHR:

Prosecution of indicted war criminals by the International Criminal Court, functioning as of 2002.
The “responsibility to protect,” as approved by the General Assembly in 2005, which places a moral obligation on countries to help states wracked by widespread disturbances or civil wars.
An August 2006 agreement on a draft convention on the rights of the disabled.
Adoption of a Universal Declaration of Indigenous Rights by the U.N. in September 2007.
Reducing or eliminating the death penalty in much of Europe and elsewhere.
Giving more attention to how transnational corporations affect human rights where they operate.

[SonomaPatientsCoop]

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was passed by the United Nations in 1948.
Please see Article 25.

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Documents/UDHR_Translations/eng.pdf


Well, I must ask...have they passed a resolution of a "Universal Declaration of Human Responsibilities" ?

I don't mean to be flip... but I have been homeless. Hand to mouth much longer. And I never took- and have never wanted "the state" to provide for me.

Yes... there are many in our society...and our world- who through no fault of their own indeed need help. Many more whose situation is largely if not completely of their own making. It's a slippery slope...

[podfish]

Well, I must ask...have they passed a resolution of a "Universal Declaration of Human Responsibilities" ?

I don't mean to be flip... but I have been homeless. Hand to mouth much longer. And I never took- and have never wanted "the state" to provide for me.I've learned, though I don't feel that way myself, that your sentiments are very common. I have a different take on that feeling. Personally, I want to be as self-reliant as possible, but I define that as having capability. I want to be able to avoid being at the mercy of mechanical failure, to have enough knowledge to be able to undertake as many tasks and activities as possible, and in general to be able completely provide for myself and others when necessary. That's for my own psychological well-being and enjoyment, though; I won't elevate it to a virtue.

However, when I trust someone and they're in a position to do something or provide something, especially if they enjoy doing it, I'm happy to sit back and relax. When I've contributed, or even if I haven't but someone's a willing benefactor, I feel no qualms about accepting things provided by others. I had a friend once who said semi-jokingly "If I can't pay top dollar, I don't want it". It seems to me that an insistence on refusing anything that doesn't feel earned is a similar sentiment. Maybe it's part of the definition of 'earned'. That's a very slippery and personal concept.

Most people seem to feel they've earned things when I wouldn't necessarily agree that they have. Sometimes people resist the idea that they deserve things unless they can also convince themselves they've earned them. It just seems simpler to devalue both concepts. We all benefit from things we haven't earned, we all get things we don't deserve and also suffer from things we don't deserve. Those concepts don't really make for a better world in my mind.

To me it's simply a more humane world when people are provided for, whether they deserve it or not, and it's not really a virtue to refuse to accept what society should be providing. (It's not really a vice, either, when it's just a personality trait -- but when it's generalized as if others should share that trait to be 'virtuous', it's destructive). If we as a society stopped being so focused on balancing reward to merit, life would be better. We could stop thinking of the presumably meritorious winners as having more worth than the presumably-deficient losers.

[SonomaPatientsCoop]

Good post Podfish. And I, to some part, agree. I was raised in east coast farming community... where ethics are a bit different..

But where do we end up where people don't do all they can for themselves? When society has to support them- not because they are unable but because they are unwilling?

Having been an employer...as I've said before....I've almost never had a Californian work out well. Outside of immigrants- in the ag, in the cannabis, and in the construction industry I've pretty much only seen people from the midwest, the east, the eastern NW etc actually work. In California...too many seem entitled. They want the high pay but don't want to do the work.

I've averaged somewhere between 70-80 hr work weeks my whole adult life. Double that if you count all the office work, design, planning, paperwork, etc. So yeah... I'm not going to be happy paying for someone who doesn't carry their load. But I'll pay double for the people who truly need it... because I'm blessed to be able to live my life and do what I do.


I've learned, though I don't feel that way myself, that your sentiments are very common. ...

[podfish]

..But where do we end up where people don't do all they can for themselves? When society has to support them- not because they are unable but because they are unwilling?...
...too many seem entitled. They want the high pay but don't want to do the work. Those are certainly problems that also would need addressing. I'd prefer to address them from a basic foundation, where the ability for anyone to have basic needs fulfilled was no longer an issue, wasn't a club held over anyone's head. But sure, would that create a society of lazy grasshoppers?

We're slipping dangerously close to 4am in the dorm topics, but I could envision a world that rewards initiative, cooperation and constructive efforts without penalizing those who can't or won't. To oversimplify - oatmeal's free, beer takes money. Starting and running a business gives access to a network of goods and services that other similarly energetic and creative people provide. Just want a beer? do some useful small task and then go get one.

Can't get there from here, I bet, but if we were to start over that's how I'd propose doing it. Maybe the robots will agree.

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

So what you are saying you averaged between 4 to 1.5 hours per day of off time to eat, sleep, be with your family and friends etc?

Good post Podfish. ...
I've averaged somewhere between 70-80 hr work weeks my whole adult life. ....

[Tofu Larry]

24x7=168-80=88/7=12.57 off hours/day
Tofu Larry


So what you are saying you averaged between 4 to 1.5 hours per day of off time to eat, sleep, be with your family and friends etc?

[terryjones]

Legalize trailer, tv, tiny home living!

[finnie]

is that rv?
in which case, i agree entirely.


Legalize trailer, tv, tiny home living!

[terryjones]

Yes. Should have edited😵

[SonomaPatientsCoop]

So what you are saying you averaged between 4 to 1.5 hours per day of off time to eat, sleep, be with your family and friends etc?

Hmm... a 70-80hr work week is not so uncommon for many Americans. And yes- I've spent most of my adult life working outdoors- sunrise to sunset, 6-7 days a week.

[DavidMySky]

Hmm... a 70-80hr work week is not so uncommon for many Americans. And yes- I've spent most of my adult life working outdoors- sunrise to sunset, 6-7 days a week.

It's sad that in order to make ends meet people are working that much. You could buy a house and put three kids through college on one union job working only 40 hours/week back in the '50s and '60s, but that all changed with the economic policies of Nixon and Reagan. My father was a retail manager and my mother was a schoolteacher. They put four of us through college in the '70s. They owned the house, and we had a summer house, too. You can't do that anymore. I worked 48-60 hours/week some winters working in a ski shop when I was younger and was pretty much wiped out after that. Personally, I prefer having a life over being married to a job 70+ hours/week.

[tommy]

A major factor in housing becoming unaffordable, is that real estate became an investment tool. People & companies started buying properties, not to live in, but as an investment. They showed better results than the stock market. Remember "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" published in 1997, explaining the financial benefits of buying rental properties. Every time a property is sold, the rents go up. Dilapidated "fixers" are fixed up, gentrified, rents boosted, the property becomes more valuable with the increased rents, then you have more equity, so you can buy another fixer.

The end results? Rents in Sonoma County are 4 times what they were 25 years ago. Incomes have obviously not increased like that. Some of the candidates for President have some good policy ideas to ease the housing burden.

[Jude Iam]

Tommy,

Do you know this from having invested in real estate yourself - and accrued nearly a couple dozen units? Fixed up, gentrified, rented for 'market rates'?

And did you fight against rent control when that was up for a vote? Or not?

If you still have multiple units, as someone in a privileged and powerful position,
are you renting some/any at "affordable" levels - and what might those be?

Thanks for transparency, Jude


A major factor in housing becoming unaffordable, is that real estate became an investment tool.... from .

[tommy]

Jude,

Yes, I invested in real estate, & bought multi family fixers in the early 90's. I got tired of working in a cubicle, and preferred the hands on approach of fixing up old properties. I never dreamed prices and values would increase like they have. The rents are now 4 times what they were. I've invested $75k - 150k in each unit, to fix them up, new roofs, bathrooms, kitchens, foundations, windows, plumbing, electric, etc. As the properties increased in value, I was able to refi the mortgages, to finance the repairs.

I was opposed to rent control. There is now a CA rent control law, limiting rent increases to 5% + CPI/yr. However in Sonoma Co & some other counties, The Gov Emergency Proclamation limits rent increases to 10% since the 10/17 fires.

All my units are at "affordable" rents. Half of my tenants are on Section 8. A few units I've not raised rents in years.

"Affordable rents" are in line with Section 8 guidelines: up to $2100 for a 2 bedroom/1 bath house or apt in Santa Rosa. Yet "affordable" is a misnomer. For a couple to "afford" $2100 rent, each would have to be earning $22.50/hr & working full time, or one person making $45/hr & working full time. Many jobs do not pay that. Many jobs are part time. It can be hard to find a job that pays that. This results in the housing and homeless situation we are in now.


Do you know this from having invested in real estate yourself - and accrued nearly a couple dozen units? Fixed up, gentrified, rented for 'market rates'?

And did you fight against rent control when that was up for a vote? Or not?

If you still have multiple units, as someone in a privileged and powerful position,
are you renting some/any at "affordable" levels - and what might those be?

Thanks for transparency, Jude

[podfish]

A little-houses project just opened down south:

SFGate: San Jose opens tiny homes for the homeless. They are indeed tiny. (https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/tiny-home-san-jose-homeless-berryessa-15099004.php#photo-19116324)

[SonomaPatientsCoop]

I've been traveling this country a lot the past few months...and I've seen a lot of homeless situations in various places...

When I was in Eugene OR recently, which apparently has the largest homeless population in the US (per capita I assume)... I didn't see the associated problems we see here.

I was walking by the main bus station early one morning and saw a small container w/ a staff person that offered "day storage" of the homeless belongings. I wasn't sure if this was for profit, a city/county/state thing, or a non-profit. So I did some research and found this article (https://statesmanjournal.com/story/opinion/editorials/2018/06/19/salem-should-not-yield-eugene-effort-help-homeless/714597002/) (among others).

The storage program is overseen by the local St Vincents DePaul, and gives the homeless a safe place to store their belongings during they day while they go seek services.... or simply go about their lives.

Whitebird- the clinic that came out of the hippies in the 60's also runs CAHOOTS (Crisis Assistance Helping Out On The streets) which runs 24hr mobile crisis intervention.

And while it's not mentioned in the article I linked to- I saw quite a few businesses in Eugene- especially the heavily impacted and evolving NW part of Eugene, that had allowed a homeless person or two to set up camp on their property. Talking to some of the business people, apparently there is a move among some of them to allow this in exchange for the homeless doing a few hours of work keeping the area clean (and presumably keeping the larger homeless population away and causing problems).

Now...to be clear... I'll admit a substantial part of Eugenes homeless problem...as is here in CA, is that there are a lot of services available and a political climate that keeps them from being arrested and run out of town. So, as here, a substantial portion of the. homeless are not local but have come here for "easier" living. Which of course complicates the issue of helping those locals who are falling through the cracks and have the best odds of rejoining society if they are helped in a timely manner...

[finnie]

it's a misconception that homeless services are attracting people from elsewhere.
in fact, 87% of people polled in the 2019 homeless census said that they had already been living in sonoma county prior to becoming homeless here.

... here in CA, is that there are a lot of services available and a political climate that keeps them from being arrested and run out of town. So, as here, a substantial portion of the. homeless are not local but have come here for "easier" living. ...

[podfish]

it's a misconception that homeless services are attracting people from elsewhere.
in fact, 87% of people polled in the 2019 homeless census said that they had already been living in sonoma county prior to becoming homeless here.and of course, if you polled the housed people about how many had been living in Sonoma county for a long time, I'd expect similar numbers - or even lower.

And sure, it's a problem to have differentials like that in regions. The answer isn't to race to the bottom, it's to more widely share benefits and responsibilities. That's kinda the reason for being part of a larger political organization than a tribal village.

[SonomaPatientsCoop]

it's a misconception that homeless services are attracting people from elsewhere....
Hmm. If you've read my posts on this issue you will know I was homeless many years ago. And there is *definitely* a circuit on the west coast (and the US in general). The "left coast" has the best option for services and care. And a substantial portion of the population bounces to the NW during summer, coming south in winter.

And... from experience, the homeless will tell you whatever they think you want to hear, and what is least likely to get them hassled.