Glyphosate or Round Up use locally

[O.W.]

46310I received this email today from a concerned local. Please everyone, there are other products out there that do not poison the environment and contribute to bad health. Even COSTCO is selling non toxic alternative, "Burn Out" (https://www.amazon.com/Bonide-7464-Burnout-Concentrate-Killer/dp/B00PEW8TUM/ref=asc_df_B00PEW8TUM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193139379506&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14785718166825716669&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9053615&hvtargid=pla-370477519877&psc=1). Let's help our neighbors to understand the bad affects of using this cancer causing product. It took me 4 years but my neighbors don't want their grand children's health to be at risk so they switched this year.

The biggest user is still the wine industry and they have no shame using over 78,000 pounds of concentrated glyphosate a year and gleefully call themselves "Sustainable Sonoma".

Weed Control at Pearl Essence Inn

To Whom It May Concern,

Good morning.

My name is Rosa G. and I'm a neighborhood resident close to your facility. A couple of weeks ago I was driving home and noticed a golf cart spraying under your sign on Hessel. I also noticed your driveway is sprayed as well.

I'm curious if you use Round-Up, and if so, am hoping you'd consider not-toxic alternatives that are just as effective. These alternatives (unlike Round-Up) are safe for the environment, the ecosystem, children, and native animals.

Your facility looks like a lovely and inviting place, and I'm sure your guests would also enjoy a toxic-free environment along with your neighbors.
Below I've attached some pertinent articles related to Round-Up, and toxic-free alternatives.

Would please let me know how your weed control plans for the future either way?
I know of some potential guests who might enjoy staying at your facility.

Thank you kindly,
Rosa G

Los Angeles County Bans Use of Roundup Weed Killer (https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-03-22/los-angeles-county-bans-use-of-roundup-weed-killer)

[doghairnancy]

Very nice way to suggest discontinuing the use of RoundUp. Just wish this 'progressive' county would just outlaw it. But our supervisors are deep in the pockets of the grapists who do, indeed, almost all love RU.

I received this email today from a concerned local. Please everyone, there are other products out there that do not poison the environment and contribute to bad health. Even COSTCO is selling non toxic alternative, "Burn Out" (https://www.amazon.com/Bonide-7464-Burnout-Concentrate-Killer/dp/B00PEW8TUM/ref=asc_df_B00PEW8TUM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193139379506&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14785718166825716669&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9053615&hvtargid=pla-370477519877&psc=1).

[O.W.]

Love the "grapists" reference! Yes, water, our health, quality of our lives for their profit.

... But our supervisors are deep in the pockets of the grapists who do, indeed, almost all love RU.

[luke32]

Page 9 of "A Guide to Pesticide Regulation in California", issued by the State, says that counties in California do not have the legal authority to ban pesticides, So, perhaps, "supervisors ... deep in the pockets of the grapists" is not the reason Glyphostae is not banned in Sonoma County. But the phrase is catchy and has a nice cadence and ring.

https://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/pressrls/dprguide/dprguide.pdf


Love the "grapists" reference! Yes, water, our health, quality of our lives for their profit.

[Shepherd]

I like your term "grapists," which is appropriate.


Very nice way to suggest discontinuing the use of RoundUp. Just wish this 'progressive' county would just outlaw it. But our supervisors are deep in the pockets of the grapists who do, indeed, almost all love RU.

[wisewomn]

Yes, indeedy, it's The American Way!


Love the "grapists" reference! Yes, water, our health, quality of our lives for their profit.

[Eden Man]

Glyphosate is not just killing the weeds,

but it is killing the Soil Microbes as well.

And it is already in our Bodies.

But what can you do, to get De-Toxified, of the Glyphosates, in your body right now?

It might help to start taking Glycine, which is one of the Amino Acids. - T-Bone <script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/274ead09/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/274ead09/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js"></script>

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

I read somewhere that Glyphosate was detectable in every vegetable except broccoli and one other which I forget.

[O.W.]

Many articles on 96-98% of all human urine contain this cancer causing toxin residues. How do we embarrass the wine industry here into stopping this practice of widespread spraying? According to the California Dept. of Pesticide Regulation, the wine industry is the number 1 user with landscapers a distant second.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/keep90days/2019-04-07_18-57-35.png (https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Making-Our-Children-Sick/dp/1603587578)I'm so tired of them whining about how much money they bring into the county. No excuse to poison us all for their bottom line. Most of that money goes to the elites of the county and the rest get mediocre jobs and have long commutes or multiple jobs to live here. Do you remember when the industry wanted aerial spraying? Turned out that was NOT needed. Thank people like Shepherd Bliss for stopping that one.

What about the health problems and suffering they are causing. See: "What's making Our Children Sick" (https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Making-Our-Children-Sick/dp/1603587578)by local doctors Michele Perro and Vincanne Adams. Oh yeah, the wine industry is "sustainable"....what a joke.


I read somewhere that Glyphosate was detectable in every vegetable except broccoli and one other which I forget.

[SonomaPatientsCoop]

While I'm no fan of Glyophospahate .. or Monsanto (now owned by Bayer? ) ....as someone who had a certified organic farm for well over a decade, and have also been involved in the organic cannabis industry... I'm going to play devil's advocate.

We seem to love to harp on the wineries here- but TBH (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tbh), as in almost all commercial agriculture - the bottom line matters. There is an incentive to use as little of a product that costs you money (the product, the application, the paperwork, the storage etc) as possible. And, applicators on farms are trained and licensed. They know how to read the labels. Mix properly. Apply at proper times to avoid runoff. And try and save their employers $ while getting the job done. These farmers also tend to religiously use cover crops, mulch, and compost (at least until some NIMBY folks got Sonoma Compost shut down) to minimize the need of a weedkiller in the first place.

"organic" and "natural"
does not mean safe
... nor even safer. While I don't think ANYONE has numbers... just looking at the shelves of every hardware store in the county... I would argue more roundup is used by homeowners and small businesses then the wine industry. And often applied with the normal American mentality of more must be better. And often with no thought as to the time of application to prevent runoff from rain or irrigation. And certainly without observing the "re-entry period) that ag observes- letting everyone from people to pets onto the applied areas... and thus tracking into it homes etc.

And, oddly, I never here anyone talking about the number 1 contaminant of local wells and groundwater from the vineyards- Sulfur. Yes... it's "organic" . And no- it's not good for living things...

And to be clear- "organic" and "natural" does not mean safe... nor even safer. There have been quite a few major studies in the past years that call into question how much better "organic" chemicals are. Organic pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides tend to be both very broad spectrum... and somewhat ineffective. Which means they ultimately get applied much more frequently than chemical options... and tend to kill or harm a much wider spectrum then many chemicals do. And many of them are rather slow to breakdown and are very toxic if they enter waterways.

And the Burnout mentioned above? Here's the MSDS: https://www.bonide.com/assets/Products/SDS/sds7490.pdf
And I can attest from use- it is moderately effective...against some weeds. Requires many applications and is worthless against some common weeds.

I'll also say in an earlier thread people were suggesting vinegar. Do your research- this popped into popularity in the late 90's (or early 2000's). It "works" by changing the soil pH to a level pretty much nothing to go. I know OR & WA (and probably CA) jumped on the bandwagon at the time... then quickly banned its use because of its devastating effects on the soil AND waterways.

Sorry... I'm just kind of tired of the world as it is right now. *We* are right and *they* are wrong. The truth is much, much more complicated.... and we're all seemingly too willing to overlook the inconvenient truths of our position.

[kane]

Perhaps a sign along the road where you see ‘burnt’ grass in April;
”We use Herbicides in our vineyards, Enjoy our wine!”

[Shepherd]

I remember those days when they were threatening our homes and farms with spraying us from the air. We went to the Board of Supervisors and let them know that they would do so "over our dead bodies." We were able to cancel those flights. We are once again in such a time when we food farmers and our allies need to stand up to those addicted to wealth. Enough is enough! Life is not all about money, though having enough to survive is important.

Wine is a boom and bust industry. It seems to be in decline here in Sonoma County, as the millennial turn away from wine.

[O.W.]

Homeowners are a drop in the bucket. Please educate yourself on the amounts of regulated toxins our society finds acceptable to allow corporations to plunder for profit. The California department of Pesticide Regulations: https://www.cdpr.ca.gov has a data base of all chemicals used in our County and who uses it. Of course homeowners are not required to report their use but everyone else is. So it takes a few applications for glyphosate alternatives to be effective, would you rather have cancer or give it to others?

I am in total agreement about sulphur, considered organic but used in unbelievable amounts here (well over 2 million pounds a year here). Very little stays on the target but ends up changing pH of water, soil etc. Vinegar is NOT a threat. When used with orange oil and or Dawn dish soap and other formulations used by local farmers like Kathy Tresch, it is effective and is not causing cancer or destroying the environment as you suggest.

The wine industry is in decline with grape glut and rapidly falling sales so what will the next crop be? Hopefully something more worthwhile than alcohol.

As a society we need to change our way of thinking about acceptable levels of harm to allow extractive businesses to flourish while the public and environmental health plummets. Permitting environmental degradation is what our regulatory agencies are doing now. "The permitting agency is in the business to facilitate the issuance of a permit, NOT to protect people." CELDF. Wow have we gone down the rabbit hole.


...I would argue more roundup is used by homeowners and small businesses then the wine industry. ...

[natural home]

Would like you to know real statistics on Glysophate...go to winewaterwatch.org where I gathered a few real statistics:


2,221,222 pounds sprayed on the vineyards in Sonoma County
1,372,250 pounds in Napa
source cdpr.ca.gov this was in 2014

Cancer rates for kids highest in the state Napa, 3rd Sonoma.

As far as sulfer being sprayed I was told that sulfur has poison added to it, but it is so minimal they don't have to put it on the labels. Yes, our water is being poisoned, wines and beers and teas probably should not be consumed if our groundwater is used.

Your supervisor L. Hopkins has been instrumental in creating a new agency to monitor our water called the Santa Rosa Plains Groundwater Sustainability Agency, Because a few of us see that this is a very greed driven board, we have formed the Rural Homeowners Alliance to tackle this and many other issues to keep water clean and our public trust, not up for grabs by the rich and profit driven industrial agriculture.

If you want to change what's happening pay attention to what this agency is doing, and the decisions that are being weighed by the Sebastopol City Council...if they are going to join. First thing, is we need to get local food producers, and rural homeowners on the board to make sure we have some voting rights. Also go to Ace Hardware, Home Depot, Lowes, Freidmans and tell them to stop selling the poison!More info. email me [email protected]

[Shepherd]

City of Sonoma bans Glyphosate products in public landscaping !!


[*=left]Just last Monday, the Sonoma City Council voted unanimously to ban the use of glyphosate-based products (such as RoundUp) in city landscaping. That means that the historic Plaza, city parks and bike paths, etc. will be a little safer for residents, visitors, families, workers, pets, and the birds and bees!
[*=left]Though the Council did yet enact a full ban of toxic synthetic pesticides, as SCCA had advocated they do, we do expect them to bring the issue back for a vote this Spring. Keep paying attention and speaking up, Sonoma residents!
[*=left]Sonoma joins Santa Rosa, Sebastopol, Windsor, Healdsburg and Petaluma that have passed full or partial bans of glyphosate and other synthetic pesticides.
[*=left]Next up for our Toxic Free Future campaign (https://act.myngp.com/el/pmhB3Jx_cExgt-RmLqZ-LRr-8Egc4lMmrcQ95eMFiRU=/TMBzoo63FCGtzKEkPYEzeVlYIY-yMCVJ7bW2L9GCbiM=) are Rohnert Park, Cotati, Cloverdale and the County. Let us know if you want to get involved!!

[tommy]

https://www.movementrights.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SONOMA-2.png

<header class="entry-header clr" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: Montserrat; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Poisoning Paradise: A Community Fights Back
</header>

December 20, 2018

By Annie Dobbs-Kramer and Shannon Biggs (https://www.movementrights.org/board/)

Annie is the political director of the North Bay Organizing Project (http://northbayop.org/) (NBOP) in Sonoma County, CA, and Shannon is the co-founder of Movement Rights.

https://www.movementrights.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Preignac-wine_3455478b-620x375-300x181.jpgSonoma, County California is the California Dream. Majestic Redwoods. Rugged coastline. World class dining. Affluence. The Good Life. And 425 wineries in an idyllic country setting. The myth of the Northern California wine country lifestyle hides the secret behind the wine bottle: huge agribusiness as a political machine, mono-cropping replacing forests and woodlands, cancer clusters and pesticides poisoning the land, water, farmworkers and community.

Sonoma is among the least healthy places to live in California

More than 60,000 acres of Sonoma County are industrial mono-cropped vineyards. Of these, only 600 acres are organically farmed—that is less than 3% (http://winewaterwatch.org/2017/02/sonoma-gets-its-toxics-closeup-whats-on-those-vines-by-pam-strayer-2/). The rest are heavily sprayed with toxic chemicals that poison the farm workers who work the vineyards, the people who drink the wine, and the communities who rely on the water that these chemicals contaminate. As industrial vineyard acreage increases and climate change makes other wine growing regions less desirable, there is a push to clear cut forested areas and turn them into vineyards. These industrial vineyards use a tremendous amount of water, and often are accompanied by water mining which is depleting Sonoma County groundwater.


Sixty percent of the children of farmworkers in Sonoma County have asthma. Sonoma has the third highest rate of childhood cancer in California. And that was before the fires.



<figure id="attachment_1120" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-1120" class="wp-caption alignright" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 24px 1.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; max-width: 100%; float: right; width: 300px;">https://www.movementrights.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/glyphosate-in-wine-300x158.jpg<figcaption id="caption-attachment-1120" class="wp-caption-text" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; font-family: inherit; font-style: italic; font-weight: inherit; color: rgb(153, 153, 153);">Glyphosate is found in all California wines tested. (Source & Image credit (https://www.bewellbuzz.com/food/glyphosate-present-california-wines/): BeWell Buzz)</figcaption></figure>The California wine regions are recorded to have between 79,000-189,000 pounds of the pesticide glyphosate sprayed in their communities every year, along with a heavy combination of other industrial pest-control chemicals. As Dr. Robin Mesnage, Dept. of Medical & Molecular Genetics, Kings College states, “Glyphosate is everywhere throughout our food chain. (http://winewaterwatch.org/2018/09/amazing-new-documentary-you-can-help-fund-children-of-the-vine-2-2/) We know Roundup contains many other chemicals, which when mixed together are 1,000 times more toxic than glyphosate on its own.”

Recent studies have linked glyphosate, a chemical component found in RoundUp (which drenches Sonoma County’s fields, and flows into rivers and groundwater), with autism. And used in combination with other dangerous pesticides including Mancozeb (a developmental toxin and probable carcinogen), the residents of Sonoma County are being poisoned.

Continues here (https://www.movementrights.org/poisoning-paradise-a-community-fights-back/)

[Lilith Rogers]

Rachel Carson led the way to ending the use of DDT and the poisoning of insects, animals and people with the publishing of SILENT SPRING back in 1962. We can do it again!!! And let's start right here in Sonoma County.


Poisoning Paradise: A Community Fights Back

[Lilith Rogers]

And, speaking of Rachel Carson.

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
Burbank Farm and Garden will be holding their annual spring open house and plant sale on the weekend of 4/27 and 4/28th and I'll be performing my Rachel Carson Returns show there again. So come on over and check out the beautiful gardens, buy some great organic plant starts, and see Rachel Carson come to life and tell her story. It's different everytime depending on how she inspires me. Lilith

[O.W.]

There have been some real concern from environmental groups about how the state and county ag commissioners gather their figures for the annual Pesticide Report. NapaVision 2050 has been actively engaging community to get real figures. many of us have been calling for a full county wide cumulative EIR to access the impacts of the wine industry for years. Here is the email blast they sent out. The report at the bottom is a great read.


We are working to track and analyze the use of glyphosate and other pesticides and herbicides here in Napa County in order to report this information to you. California has a Department of Pesticide Regulation (https://napavision2050.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=158c41024f94e1f71cd5401b3&id=64caf781d3&e=1cb1016ca3) and each county's agricultural commissioner's office, such as Napa's is required to report their area usage on a monthly basis.




We reached out to the Napa County Agricultural Commissioner's (https://napavision2050.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=158c41024f94e1f71cd5401b3&id=ee842bdc65&e=1cb1016ca3) office (https://napavision2050.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=158c41024f94e1f71cd5401b3&id=ee842bdc65&e=1cb1016ca3) to obtain those reported statistics on glyphosate usage. According to the data, 8,060 gallons in 2017 and 7,620 gallons in 2018 of glyphosate products were used on agricultural land (primarily vineyards) in Napa county. The exact percent of acreage that has been doused is harder to determine because of the reporting structure. However, we are working to get that information. You deserve to know these numbers.




And all of us deserve better protection for the cumulative and broad use of these regulated chemicals. Though vineyard owners may complain loudly that they are "the most regulated", tracked and inspected industry in the state, that is actually not that case when it comes to oversight regarding pesticide and herbicide use. A recent series of incisive investigations conducted by UCLA and USC (https://napavision2050.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=158c41024f94e1f71cd5401b3&id=6a2576327b&e=1cb1016ca3) finds that all the California county agricultural commissioners are falling short on their mandated jobs regarding "issuing permits for pesticide use without considering safer alternatives, and without evaluating the health implications of “cumulative exposure,” which occurs when growers apply two or more pesticides to the same or adjacent fields."


Read the latest report here (https://napavision2050.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=158c41024f94e1f71cd5401b3&id=01896a5234&e=1cb1016ca3)

[O.W.]

A new article from Johan Raskin, local journalist Valley of the Moon Magazine just out. Wine and Water Watch has this posted. (http://winewaterwatch.org/2019/05/valley-of-the-moon-magazine-shutting-down-roundup/) Looks like our county will have glyphosate ban on the ballot in 2020 if Bob Cannard can pull this off. Kudos to both Bob and Jonah. Take away from this article:

"The toxic news doesn’t end there. According to Santa Rosa–based Sonoma County Conservation Action (SCCA), the county’s spraying practices have been in violation of the standards for health and well-being set by the North Coast Regional Water Quality Control Board (RWQCB) and the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES). SCCA’s Megan Kaun wrote in an email that Sonoma County is “in violation of their storm water permit” and “literally hasn’t been able to track down pesticide use data for all of their departments.”

Cannard has drafted an anti-glyphosate measure he wants to put on the ballot in Sonoma County next fall. The key passage reads, “We the people of Sonoma County direct the agricultural commissioner to forbid the use of glyphosate in our county effective immediately, and we direct the board of supervisors to develop protocols for all agricultural activities that utilize herbicide, pesticides, and fungicides by the year 2031.”



SHUTTING DOWN ROUNDUP (http://vommag.com/shutting-down-roundup/)
Story Jonah Raskin

46697Bayer, the global chemical giant that bought Monsanto in 2016 for $66 billion, announced recently it was laying off 4,500 workers at its huge manufacturing plant in Germany. Demand for its controversial product, Roundup, has fallen drastically. Also, Bayer stocks have plunged in the wake of headline news that a federal jury in San Francisco ordered Monsanto to pay about $80 million to Edwin Hardeman, a longtime Sonoma County resident who used Roundup for 26 years to control weeds and poison oak on his own property.

Not surprisingly, Bayer stockholders are wondering if the purchase of Monsanto was a sound investment, though that wasn’t Edwin Hardeman’s problem. He had his own health to worry about, and so it would seem does everyone who has lived and worked in Sonoma County, which has the third highest rate of cancer for children in California, according to the Lucile Packard Foundation for Children’s Health. The county’s “Sustainable Sonoma” campaign has been a step in the right direction, but now it appears to have fallen short of promoting chemical protection for humans and the environment, which also need sustainability.

In their 2017 book, What’s Making Our Children Sick? Marin County pediatrician Michelle Perro and UC Berkeley Professor Vincanne Adams, argue that kids in the North Bay and elsewhere have impaired guts and damaged immune systems because they’re “chronically exposed to poisons in their environment, and specifically in and from their food.”

Kids, the book argues, are literally eating toxic chemicals. Adults are better off, but according to the National Cancer Institute, Sonoma County ranks 15th in cancer rates for adults in California.

Roundup, which doesn’t just kill weeds and poison oak, seems to be part of the problem. Its active ingredient, glyphosate, gets into the soil, into groundwater and into the air, polluting and contaminating. It also makes its way into the human body, where it wreaks havoc. Padi Selwyn, one of the founders of Preserve Rural Sonoma County, has done extensive research on the issue, which leads her to the conclusion that, “Our paradise is poisoned with herbicides and pesticides.”

Continues here (http://vommag.com/shutting-down-roundup/)

[Shepherd]

Your assertion that "as in almost all commercial agriculture - the bottom line matters," is not true for all of us, particularly those of us who are organic, permacultural, and farm because we love doing so and providing good food for people, as well as living on the land, rather than in cities.

There are many good reasons for farming, other than financial. Sure, enough money to survive is good. Farming can also be a form of yoga; it also means that I no longer need to go to the gym. When the crash comes, which I predict it will, perhaps soon, given Trump, those of us on farms will have places where people can camp out and go back to some old-fashioned ways of BEING.


While I'm no fan of Glyophospahate .. or Monsanto (now owned by Bayer? ) ....as someone who had a certified organic farm for well over a decade, and have also been involved in the organic cannabis industry... I'm going to play devil's advocate.

We seem to love to harp on the wineries here- but TBH (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tbh), as in almost all commercial agriculture - the bottom line matters. There is an incentive to use as little of a product that costs you money (the product, the application, the paperwork, the storage etc) as possible. And, applicators on farms are trained and licensed. They know how to read the labels. Mix properly. Apply at proper times to avoid runoff. And try and save their employers $ while getting the job done. These farmers also tend to religiously use cover crops, mulch, and compost (at least until some NIMBY folks got Sonoma Compost shut down) to minimize the need of a weedkiller in the first place.

"organic" and "natural"
does not mean safe
... nor even safer. While I don't think ANYONE has numbers... just looking at the shelves of every hardware store in the county... I would argue more roundup is used by homeowners and small businesses then the wine industry. And often applied with the normal American mentality of more must be better. And often with no thought as to the time of application to prevent runoff from rain or irrigation. And certainly without observing the "re-entry period) that ag observes- letting everyone from people to pets onto the applied areas... and thus tracking into it homes etc.

And, oddly, I never here anyone talking about the number 1 contaminant of local wells and groundwater from the vineyards- Sulfur. Yes... it's "organic" . And no- it's not good for living things...

And to be clear- "organic" and "natural" does not mean safe... nor even safer. There have been quite a few major studies in the past years that call into question how much better "organic" chemicals are. Organic pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides tend to be both very broad spectrum... and somewhat ineffective. Which means they ultimately get applied much more frequently than chemical options... and tend to kill or harm a much wider spectrum then many chemicals do. And many of them are rather slow to breakdown and are very toxic if they enter waterways.

And the Burnout mentioned above? Here's the MSDS: https://www.bonide.com/assets/Products/SDS/sds7490.pdf
And I can attest from use- it is moderately effective...against some weeds. Requires many applications and is worthless against some common weeds.

I'll also say in an earlier thread people were suggesting vinegar. Do your research- this popped into popularity in the late 90's (or early 2000's). It "works" by changing the soil pH to a level pretty much nothing to go. I know OR & WA (and probably CA) jumped on the bandwagon at the time... then quickly banned its use because of its devastating effects on the soil AND waterways.

Sorry... I'm just kind of tired of the world as it is right now. *We* are right and *they* are wrong. The truth is much, much more complicated.... and we're all seemingly too willing to overlook the inconvenient truths of our position.

[Jude Iam]

uuuh, shepherd, some of us have already been hit by the economic tsunami (crash, yes, like foreclosure), as you well know. yes, I have considered camping for a while, till a suitable place turns up. so, shepherd, are you actually meaning your words, below? let me/us know, jude

...those of us on farms will have places where people can camp out and go back to some old-fashioned ways of BEING.




Your assertion that "as in almost all commercial agriculture - the bottom line matters," is not true for all of us, particularly those of us who are organic, permacultural, and farm because we love doing so and providing good food for people, as well as living on the land, rather than in cities.

There are many good reasons for farming, other than financial. Sure, enough money to survive is good. Farming can also be a form of yoga; it also means that I no longer need to go to the gym. When the crash comes, which I predict it will, perhaps soon, given Trump, those of us on farms will have places where people can camp out and go back to some old-fashioned ways of BEING.

[caromia333]

Does anyone know which wineries use the most RoundUP?

[Barry]

Does anyone know which wineries use the most RoundUP?
And conversely, which ones don't
(ie list of organic/biodynamic wineries) :goorganic::angel:

[Chauncey Gardner]

I'm gonna play the devils advocate too. If you use these poisons on the land on people on the water on the plants on the animals and your employees you should be horse whipped. That is the bottom line bub. Advocating for poison in devil's name is an easy task.

[Shepherd]

I think that the Wine and Water Watch website has a list of organic and bio-dynamic wineries.



And conversely, which ones don't
(ie list of organic/biodynamic wineries) :goorganic::angel:

[Chauncey Gardner]

Sorry I am just tired of people making excuses for poisoning our environment for their 'bottom line'. According to Mercola the poison you are advocating : (https://theluxuryspot.com/glycophosphate-is-dangerous/)


To begin with, the damage done to the body by this chemical don’t show up immediately, but they take time. The negative impact caused by glyphosate to the body manifests slowly, but it continues to worsen as inflammation takes over in every cell of the body. You won’t see any health problems right away, but things will get worse and worse as time passes.

Why is inflammation of the cells so bad? Well, inflammation is usually your body’s response to foreign invaders, such as bacteria and germs. When something is wrong in your body, your immune system triggers an inflammatory response in order to halt the spread of the disease. It deals with the problem, focusing all of its attention on restoring your body back to health. If there is widespread inflammation in the body, it causes the immune system to be weakened, thereby leaving your body vulnerable to infections.

When mammals (humans including) ingest glycophosphate, the chemical blocks the production of an enzyme called CYP. This enzyme is supposed to detoxify the human body, and its purpose is to get rid of the chemicals that your body cannot eliminate on its own. If these enzymes cannot be produced, the human body cannot eliminate the toxins and chemicals. This can lead to a number of serious health problems, such as cancer, toxicity, and organ damage.

Glyphosate disrupts the shikimate pathway in weeds, preventing them from growing and producing new cells. Humans and other mammals do not have this pathway, but the bacteria in the human intestines do. This means that the chemical disrupts the healthy growth and spread of gut bacteria, which causes a number of serious digestive problems.


There is no safe level of toxins for anyone or anything a 'trained and licensed" applicator guy makes zero difference. since Glyphosate does not go away there is no SAFE time to apply so that it does not run off. It builds up in the soil and is tossed by the wind when it rains the concentrate goes into the waterways and into the wells. Glyphosate will not save employers money in the long run if they are knowingly using a product that causes cancer. For even Monsanto has learned an expensive lesson for just ONE persons injury claim.. There are possibly millions who could claim the same. Sonoma compost got shut down because the glyphosate was then in a large mouldering piles and leaking off into the local ground water and streams. Many wineries and farmers have already managed to switch over or started using bio dynamic or natural/permaculture farming methods so it is not impossible but actually in the end way more profitable to not have poisons in every quarter of your winery and growing areas.

Sulfer is not used as an herbicide and there is no way to know if a winery with a licensed handler is doing any better a job using these porducts than the average homeowner who does not understand they are giveing themselves and their neighbors cancer with these products. I have gone to my local hardware with the info and easily shamed them into stopping the sale of these products. You can too. There is no reason to play at the devils own game when it comes glycophosphate . The use of dense cover crops that infuse the soil with nitrogen and choke out other weeds is how easy it is to be a safe and happy and fruitful farmer.
Sorry I am just tired of people playing with the truth in these matters by trying to grey up the right practices with mendacious devil advocacy. :waccosun:Peace



While I'm no fan of Glyophospahate .. or Monsanto (now owned by Bayer? ) ....as someone who had a certified organic farm for well over a decade, and have also been involved in the organic cannabis industry... I'm going to play devil's advocate.

We seem to love to harp on the wineries here- but TBH (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tbh), as in almost all commercial agriculture - the bottom line matters. ...

[Chauncey Gardner]

Here is a great article and list of Organic and bio dynamic wineries in SC.
https://www.sonomacounty.com/articles/biodynamic-and-organic-wineries-sonoma-county


I think that the Wine and Water Watch website has a list of organic and bio-dynamic wineries.

[Chauncey Gardner]

To be fair this guy had no friends never reached out and only stayed long enough to poop n the path....

While I'm no fan of Glyophospahate .. or Monsanto (now owned by Bayer? ) ....as someone who had a certified organic farm for well over a decade, and have also been involved in the organic cannabis industry... I'm going to play devil's advocate. ...

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

It's rare to see a vineyard that doesn't use roundup. They pretty much all have that telltale 18" wide strip down every row where nothing is growing.

[O.W.]

Here is a great article and list of Organic and bio dynamic wineries in SC.
https://www.sonomacounty.com/articles/biodynamic-and-organic-wineries-sonoma-county

Wine & Water Watch does have a list made last year. One of the problems with making lists is that certified organic and biodynamic wineries also bottle other vintages that are not which is very misleading. An example would be Porter Creek who's estate wines are certified biodynamic but other vintages not so. Common practice.

Pam Strayer, Organic Wines Uncorked (https://winecountrygeographic.blogspot.com/) is a great site to get actual vintages that are third party certified. With that said here is a list that was made last year.

ORGANIC/BIODYNAMIC WINES TO SUPPORT (third party certified)
100% Organic/biodynamic

Canihan Wines
Emtu Estate Wines
Hamel Family Wines
Horse and Plow
Kamen Estate Winery
Martorana Family Winery
Medlock Ames
Porter-Bass
Preston Farm & Winery
Russian River Vineyards
Skipstone WInery
The Gardener


Partly Organic (some of the wines are from organic vines - the vines for those wines are certified and don’t use glyphosate)

Alexander Valley Vineyards
Amapola Creek Vineyards (mostly organic)
Bartholomew Park
Benziger Family Winery
De Loach Vineyards
Hawley Family Winery
Imagery Estate
Korbin Kameron
Lasseter Family Winery (only red wines oganic)
Laurel Glen
Petroni Vineyards
Porter Creek Vineyards (estate wines only biodynamic)
Quivera Vineyards
Radio Coteau (organic but not all vines certified)
Ridge Vineyards
Stone Edge Farm & Winery
Turley Wine Cellars (organic but not all vines certified)
Truett Hurst
Wild Hog
Winery Sixteen 600
Single Vineyard Designate

[O.W.]

Since the Sonoma County Winegrowers Assoc. came up with their phony PR plan to convince consumers they were "sustainable", our scarce acreage of certified organic and biodynamic vineyards has fallen from about 2.6% to under 1%. Keep in mind that "certified sustainable" allows glyphosate and some really nasty chemcials like manzoceb to be used on "sustainable" vineyards. Europe can't keep up with demand of organic/biodynamic wines which is approaching 35% now. We are way behind. Sonoma grape growers need to stop greenwashing and get on board with the rest of the world.

Round Up (glyphosate) is actually cheaper than hiring people to weed which is more than likely why our grape growers use the poison. According to the California Department of Pesticide databank, our wineries used over 77,000 pounds of concentrated glyphosate in their last data release. Cities are being sued now from employees who used glyphosate so it's not a stretch to think one day wineries will be sued as well for toxic practices.

The only way to find out specific wineries use is through the Ag Commissioner. You pay a fee for the info and it is done by address. Since most have multiple addresses this is NOT easy.

Some people don't like respraying with alternatives, I get it. There are viable working over the counter products that can be used effectively. Toxic Free Irvine has a list which only includes OMRI (organic) listed ingredients. Be sure if you buy alternatives that it has OMRI on it or other synthetic ingredients will be lurking.

There is a rising tide of communities that have kicked out businesses that are polluting and causing health problems. August 5th at Grange, 6:30pm will be the authors of a book documenting how these communities succeeded with an update of what's being done here by local activists. This is a fundraiser ($12) for a full time position to tackle our challenges. If you are concerned about our cancer rates (we have several pending anti glyphosate court cases here) then come help to create safe ag, safe schools.


2019 - Preferred Product List:

<tbody>
Weed Abatement



Suppress EC (Non-selective)


OMRI® Listed/weed control, as needed (Caprylic Acid and Capric Acid) more info (https://westbridge.com/suppress-herbicide-ec-receives-epa-approval/)


Scythe
(Non-selective)


OMRI® Listed/weed control - Scythe® is a non-selective contact herbicide
https://www.biconet.com/lawn/infosheets/scythe_label.pdf


Final-San-O (Non-selective)

OMRI® Listed , NOP Approved/fast-acting weed, grass, algae and moss killer. It suppresses the growth of some bi-annual and perennial weeds. Final-San-O can be used at any time during the year, and areas can be re-sown 5 days after treatment.
http://www.neudorffpro.com/index.php?id=1838

(http://www.neudorffpro.com/index.php?id=1838)


Weed Zap
(Non-selective)

OMRI® Listed/broad spectrum, biodegradable, foliar herbicide is made from clove and cinnamon oils. It will only control actively growing emerged green vegetation and controls annual and perennial broadleaf and grassy weeds. It will only affect plants that are coated with the spray solution and does not damage non-green woody plants. more info (https://www.arbico-organics.com/product/weed-zap-jh-biotech/natural-organic-weed-control)




Weed Pharm
(Non-selective)
OMRI® Listed, and WSDA Certified/University trials that prove 20% Acetic Acid is as effective as Glyphosate in killing annual and broadleaf weeds with one application. It also works on poison ivy and poison oak.
http://www.pharmsolutionsinc.com/weedpharm.htm

(http://www.pharmsolutionsinc.com/weedpharm.htm)


A.D.I.O.S.
(Selective/ Post-emergent)

OMRI® Listed, A.D.I.O.S. is a post-emergent foliar herbicide used for the control of broadleaf weeds. Can safely be used on turf & lawn or around plants, bushes, small trees, fruits and vegetables gardens. Once sprayed on the weed, A.D.I.O.S. travels right away through the foliage, stems and all the way down to the roots.

All natural, A.D.I.O.S. can be used around children and pets. No buffer zone is required when applied next to drinkable fresh water wells. http://herbanatur.biz/bio-herbicide-adios-products.html

</tbody>

[sharingwisdom]

Glyphosate Found in 100% of California Wine Tested, Even Organic (https://returntonow.net/2019/01/13/glyphosate-found-in-100-of-california-wine-tested-even-organic/)

https://returntonow.net/2019/01/13/glyphosate-found-in-100-of-california-wine-tested-even-organic/


Does anyone know which wineries use the most RoundUP?

[pamelasl]

There is now SO much info on Glyphosate being a killer - I've been listening to the MP3 book (unfortunate computer voice but the actual book is also available) by a doctor who has read and understood the science. K.P. Stoller "Incurable Me" and it is incredibly daunting! He also has a lot of answers on detox and corrections too - and freely gives them. He has relocated to Santa Rosa with his hyperberic oxygen chamber by the way...but - what to do when seeing people in this age poisoning the earth? The piano teacher in Seb-town on Leland street goes out and pours stuff on the earth near the road in front of her very managed front yard - now things are dying there, and her property is up hill from Calder Creek - fie!


I'm gonna play the devils advocate too. If you use these poisons on the land on people on the water on the plants on the animals and your employees you should be horse whipped. That is the bottom line bub. Advocating for poison in devil's name is an easy task.

[caromia333]

Just had a two hour call with the head of Moms Across America. She is a force of nature.

Her short film will tell you everything you need to know about Glyphosate and other toxic chemicals in our food system. Her story is inspiring and her solutions are incredible!

The alternative to glyphosate is a product called Pulverize - Roundup costs twice as much as this product.
https://www.pulverize.com

Mom's Across America short film (https://www.momsacrossamerica.com/communities-rising)

Comment to EPA (https://www.regulations.gov/comment?D=EPA-HQ-OPP-2009-0361-2340)

Federal Register (https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/06/06/2019-11704/movement-of-certain-genetically-engineered-organisms)

Gold Standard (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W_A9CaZwI90kmI5ni7pQyxem0IGGXf4prXwZmL3K4bs/edit)

Roundup alternatives
(https://www.momsacrossamerica.com/toxin_free_town_campaign)
Moms Across America (http://www.momsacrossamerica.org/)
Author, UNSTOPPABLE (https://www.amazon.com/Unstoppable-Transforming-Empowerment-Celebration-Community/dp/1986668266/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526601855&sr=8-1&keywords=unstoppable+%2B+zen+honeycutt)
International Speaker (http://www.zenhoneycutt.com/)
Mission Viejo, CA. 92691

[luke32]

Not to defend RoundUp, but the principal "authority" listed at the start of this thread, Mercola, has earned a quite lengthy background check from Quack Watch. It can be seen here https://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html


It's rare to see a vineyard that doesn't use roundup. They pretty much all have that telltale 18" wide strip down every row where nothing is growing.

[pamelasl]

Quackwatch was created at the same time (and I suspect in response to) two particular medical doctors who acted to legally allow Medical doctors to treat cancer with so-called "alternative" treatments as opposed to strictly pharma and radiation.They treated a case of cancer and cured it, without chemo etc. and had to fight the medical boards for the legal right to continue Natural treatments. Those doctors are Dr. Leonard Saputo (of Walnut Creek) and Dr. Robert Rowen, of Santa Rosa, and they won the fight; nevertheless, doctors cannot report that they do this without furious repercussions and persecution.

If you look on the Quackwatch site, I'm pretty sure you will find their names still there somewhere, for neither of them are retired. They both practice healing modalities with light, oxygen, and other Natural substances that cannot be patented. You can also search for Feldenkrais, acupuncture, homeopathy, Chinese Medicine and more - if you have ever experienced these modalities yourself, and felt them work wonders in your own body, you will realize what Quackwatch is all about.

So, for Mercola being listed on that site, quiet frankly, I "take with a grain of salt" and don't even bother to read what it says. That is too bad, too, because there are 'quacks' still practicing; they are the ones who are not reading their own science, nor have open minds to treatments that don't cost people vast amounts of money and are authorized by pharma.

[Dorothy Friberg]

One thing we can do is publicize and boycott businesses that sell it to the public. I was in Sebastopol hardware today and Rooundup was prominently displayed on the shelves of the garden section. We can'd do much about the wholesale sale and application of the stuff used commercially.

[cw707]

Home Depot was carrying it when I was there last, 3-4 months ago. I tried to talk a customer out of buying 4 containers, but no luck. Even my landlord here in this mobile home park uses it unless you ask him not to spray your area. He said he's going to switch to something more natural when he runs out of Roundup...sigh.....

One thing we can do is publicize and boycott businesses that sell it to the public....