CVS to open this Sunday, Jan. 22 - What will you do? Support? Boycott? Protest? [Archive]

View Full Version : CVS to open this Sunday, Jan. 22 - What will you do? Support? Boycott? Protest?

Barry

01-17-2017, 04:43 PM

https://www.WaccoBB.net/forums/waccobb/keep90days/2017-01-17_16-00-25.pngThe new CVS store in downtown Sebastopol is scheduled to open this Sunday.

Will you shop there or boycott it? Will you protest it?

I will not shop there, and I may well join a protest! Are there plans to protest yet?

How about you?? What will you do and why?

I won't shop there because CVS was "deceitful" in how they dealt with the city, as stated by former councilmemeber John Eder in a recent SonomaWest T&N article (https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_west_times_and_news/news/cvs-to-open-sunday-jan/article_7f89071e-db45-11e6-9735-9f5236df8dee.html) recounting the history of the project:

"The new store will be built, but we do not need to patronize it,” Eder said in April 2016. “CVS was deceitful in their dealings with the city during our settlement negotiations, and withheld critical documents until the day that we either needed to sign the settlement agreement or move forward with continued litigation.”

The article also states that "The settlement also required CVS to maintain a second story elevation," which was to allow for some future use. However, John Eder has told me that the second story is not usable as designed.

I also have a problem with CVS's business practices, however they have improved somewhat lately, including not selling tobacco (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/09/02/cvs-stopping-tobacco-sales/71606590/) and dropping out of ALEC (https://www.theblaze.com/news/2012/07/11/adding-up-five-more-companies-abandon-conservative-group-alec/).

I also would rather not see another major corporation in downtown Sebastopol and the corner of Hwy 12 and Hwy 116 is a uniquely bad place for a high traffic business.

Beanie

01-18-2017, 01:33 PM

I will support.
I would also be interested to know if you shop at Whole Foods?

John Eder

01-18-2017, 03:15 PM

I will be out in front of CVS protesting on Sunday- I encourage as many people who can make it to show up. Yes, it will be raining, but is this important to you? Homemade signs are best. It would be great to get a large contingent from the Plaza/Farmer's Market to march over there to express their opinion.

But Sunday is only Day One- a protracted campaign of protest presence is best. Show up when you can, for as long as you can.

Really important- reach out to all those that you know through social media, if you use it. Build momentum through connections.

Also, the parking lot is a public lot- park there, and take up the spaces nearest the building first.

More to follow. This protest relies on YOU. Show up and "demonstrate" your position on the new store.

Sebastopol's karma thanks you...

jesswolfe

01-18-2017, 03:32 PM

I don't know if I will boycott CVS overall but its really unlikely I will make the trip to the new store. I often avoid driving thru town much of the time because its a lot of effort getting thru traffic. Getting into and out of the CVS is likely to be a nightmare. I really don't want to deal with it.

Their snarling of traffic during even construction was a bad omen of how awful its going to be dealing with traffic on that intersection.

Jessica

Shepherd

01-18-2017, 03:49 PM

I read the Sonoma West story, trying to find out what time it opens, as I have some mid-morning things to do. Does anyone know what time CVS opens on Sunday?

I will be out in front of CVS protesting on Sunday- I encourage as many people who can make it to show up. ...

musik900

01-18-2017, 05:06 PM

I would be very interested in being involved in a local protest. Is there something already organized?

CVS bullied our small town simply for profit. We quit the fight after spending $336,000 in legal fees trying to keep them from moving to our town center. They won because they have deep pockets, we don't. What a waste of money for our small town.

If we were to stage a minimum of six months of protesting with small groups of sign holders at their front door starting this Sunday, it might send a message to their corporate headquarters that it doesn't always work to bully small towns. Signs could let prospective shoppers know the facts regarding how Sebastopol was bullied, that we already have a national chain drug store a couple blocks away, that the store will increase traffic even more, and that our town needs affordable housing more than another national chain drug store.

It seems to me that that new building might be a great place for affordable housing. Why not convert it to something we actually need?

Anybody interested in standing at the building in shifts with signs? The more people the more likely that this kind of protest will be sustainable and effective to send the message to CVS headquarters. I'm in. Anyone able and willing to organize this? Not my forte, but I will definitely support it and help recruit others.

Sara S

01-18-2017, 05:37 PM

I'll never go in there for all the reason you give, plus the fact that they're expensive! I posted this here in November:

When CVS first took over Long's, I went in there for one item; the price was more than TWICE what it was at Walmart, so I never went back. A friend said "But I thought they were cheap" which is the impression you might get from the "loss-leaders" in their ads (like most big stores).

AW

...Will you shop there or boycott it? Will you protest it?....

Barry

01-18-2017, 06:22 PM

I will support.
I would also be interested to know if you shop at Whole Foods?
Good question, Beanie. My first choice of groceries stores in Sebastopol is Fircrest Market (https://www.fircrestmarket.com/). They are locally owned (with one of the owners often working a check out line), their prices are generally the lowest, and their separate organic produce section is generally sufficient, if not excellent. Locally owned Community Market (https://www.srcommunitymarket.com/) is my next choice. In addition to their excellent organic-only produce section they are open every night to 10pm.

I do confess to going to Whole Foods on occasion, mostly due to the convenience of their location. I hate how they mix their organic and conventional produce, and I still bristle at CEO John Mackey's opposition (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/whole-foods-ceo-obamacare-fascism_n_2488029.html) to Obamacare, besides being a non-local corporation. But still, as corporations go, I'd much rather support Whole Foods than CVS.

Regarding not supporting CVS, I would much rather support Rite-Aid, which is also downtown. Their downtown location doesn't create any traffic problems, they seem to generously tolerate people using their ample parking lot, they've done an excellent job of redesigning the interior, and they have awesome sales on liquor. :cocktail:

musik900

01-18-2017, 07:01 PM

Yes, re-directing possible CVS customers to Rite Aid is another great idea for boycotting CVS and reminding our town members that it's OK to say "NO" to corporations that bully us.

If you never read about this, here's an example of a small company which eventually won out when a huge national chain tried to bully them. Ben & Jerry's ice cream was once a very small start up company. Their flavors were different and delicious, and when they started to get noticed beyond their small east coast arena, a huge ice cream mega giant forced large retailers NOT to carry Ben & Jerry's. B & J almost gave in, but decided to fight back. After a slow starting grass roots effort took place, the giant corporation bully eventually gave in. The rest is history. Yes, it's possible to make a difference and make things more fair, even with the threat from wealthy bullies. You can read that story (https://www.evancarmichael.com/library/ben-cohen-jerry-greenfield/Lesson-5-Dont-Be-Afraid-to-Go-After-the-Big-Guys.html) if you look up the development of B & J.

John Eder

01-18-2017, 09:22 PM

Commit to not spending any money at CVS- shop at the nearby alternatives listed below.

If your health plan requires purchasing your prescriptions at CVS, then withhold your purchases of general merchandise from them while there.

Pharmacy alternatives to CVS in Sebastopol and the West County:

1.) Rite Aid Pharmacy 218 N. Main Street Sebastopol (707) 829-3007
Store Hours: 8 am-9 pm Pharmacy: 9 am-9 pm (9 am-6 pm Sat/10 am-6 pm Sun)

2.) Safeway Pharmacy 406 N. Main Street Sebastopol (707) 823-1937
Store Hours: 24/7 Pharmacy: 9 am-8 pm (9 am-5 pm Sat/Sun)

3.) Forestville Pharmacy 6652 Front Street (Highway 116) Forestville (707) 887-2268
Store and Pharmacy Hours: 9 am-6:30 pm (M-F) Store Hours: 9 am-5 pm (Sat/Sun) Pharmacy Hours: 10 am-5 pm (Sat) Closed Sun (And they deliver to Sebastopol and the West County!) Local business.

4.) Lark Drug Pharmacy 16251 Main Street Guerneville (707) 869-9055

Store and Pharmacy Hours: 9 am-6:30 pm (M-F) Store Hours: 10 am-6 pm (Sat) 11 am-3 pm (Sun) Pharmacy Hours: 10 am-4 pm (Sat) Closed Sun Local business.

5.) Safeway Pharmacy 16405 Highway 116 Guerneville (707) 869-0613
Store Hours: 24/7 Pharmacy: 9 am-7 pm (9 am-5 pm Sat/Sun)

If you have existing prescriptions at CVS, move them to another pharmacy on this list and be sure to tell them why.

Remember, if at all possible, GO LOCAL. Keep your dollars in our communities.

deepresto

01-18-2017, 09:41 PM

I will not shop in the new monstrosity CVS has put up, for reasons of bullying and traffic. Not to mention the folks at Rite Aid have always been nice.

jesswolfe

01-18-2017, 09:49 PM

I don't go to Walmart, but Target and Costco are much cheaper than CVS as well.

Jessica

...When CVS first took over Long's, I went in there for one item; the price was more than TWICE what it was at Walmart, so I never went back. ...

Sieglinde

01-19-2017, 05:32 AM

I plan on going out of curiosity. Then I will find out how easy or hard it is to get in and out of. Looks like I can go in and out of it the same way I go to the Feed Store. I will probably patronize it when also going to the feed store. Looks like parking has been added in walking distance from the Barlow and downtown which is a real plus.

Sieglinde

01-19-2017, 06:18 AM

That parking will be used by folks using the Barlow and it is walking distance from downtown so that would be a very selfish protest. Forestville would be way out of my way to go to and many other people's way.

John Eder

01-19-2017, 09:51 AM

The parking lot is a public lot (owned by CVS); it was a condition of approval- no different from, say, the City-owned lots next to Hopmonk or the Rialto. Do we reserve the spaces closest to Hopmonk or the Rialto for those consuming food or drink or watching a movie? Perhaps we should have a reserved row: "Viagra Purchaser Parking Only". First come, first served...

And the use of the term "selfish" is humorous, because, as you have seen, this entire project has been an exercise in altruism by CVS. Thanks for a good laugh...

Forestville Pharmacy delivers to Sebastopol (to your home) for <$5.00 per order, so no need to go out of your way- just pick up the phone.

Many of you West County residents that used to shop at the easily-accessed old CVS location in the Redwood Marketplace will now be driving by several pharmacies enroute to their new location. Do you really want to drive through downtown traffic on Main, past the Post Office to Fannen (where the VW repair shop is), turn left, go one block, wait for a break in traffic and then turn left again on Petaluma, crossing both lanes to access their Abbott Avenue entrance? By the time you did all of this, you likely could be talking to a pharmacist elsewhere. And, you will be one of the estimated (according to the CVS-commissioned traffic study) 2,200 new/additional car trips in Sebastopol's downtown. Wouldn't it be nice not to be part of the problem?

John Eder

01-19-2017, 02:08 PM

Okay, rather than just take my word for it, here is the official language regarding the parking that is contained in the Conditions of Approval from the City of Sebastopol. This is Planning Condition P15, located on Page 11 of 22 of Resolution 5888 (copy attached):

"It is noted that the application allows members of the public unrestricted parking in all on-site spaces. The parking spaces cannot be leased or rented to third parties." (italics added by me)

John Eder

01-19-2017, 04:55 PM

Having just visited the site, there are spaces reserved for disabled parking, clean air vehicle parking and electric charging station parking. That's it. No "Only for use while shopping at CVS" signs.

rekarp

01-19-2017, 05:09 PM

I don't agree with your idea to park there close to the building. That will probably attract more people to shop there, as it will look like the place is popular.

...Also, the parking lot is a public lot- park there, and take up the spaces nearest the building first...

vlondi

01-19-2017, 05:23 PM

I'll probably shop there quite often. I haven't seen anything to suggest that CVS has actually be deceitful or using unethical practices to get the store built. The only things I've read about it say that CVS has been trying to get that location built for years and some people of Sebastopol protesting it and opening litigation for no other reason than "I don't like CVS".

I'd go to Rite Aid if it weren't for the employees. They are nice enough but they are probably the slowest workers on Earth. It shouldn't take 10 minutes to simply pay for my cough drops or Bronkaid.

I don't even particularly like CVS, honestly. I don't dislike them, either, but I'll do whatever I can to spite backwards people who apparently have nothing better to do than protest stores, fluoridated water, and vaccines.

sambacat

01-19-2017, 06:05 PM

I will boycott. For one thing (among many), the nighttime lighting is appalling. It's quite blinding driving by. The dozens of glaring fluorescent ceiling lights blast out into the night, totally destroying the ambiance of Screamin Mimi's and other low-key, but sufficiently lit, nearby businesses. The lights are overwhelmingly wasteful, unnecessary, possibly dangerous to drivers, and stupendously ugly. I have written the City Council to see if anything can be done to tone them down, put awnings outside to deflect the glare or.... something. It is truly heinous.

(I would protest, but will be turning tail on Saturday and driving down to Baja before The Wall gets built! Thanks to all who will be protesting.) :heart:

Oh, and I shop Fircrest first -- good local organic produce and up to 30% less on many of the same brands as WF carries (I compared receipts.)

musik900

01-19-2017, 07:18 PM

luke32

01-19-2017, 10:24 PM

Without being privy to the details of the CVS actions that John says are deceitful it is difficult to make a decision about boycotting.. I like to think that a government's (the City's) rules and review procedures are sufficiently clear and comprehensive to prevent "deceitful" evasions or shadings. If this is not the case they need to be changed. I have not heard any discussion, since the CVS episode, that suggests the City needs to clarify its Code and review procedures. A case in point is John's assertion that CVS did not live up to the requirement that it build a "usable" second story. Was this not spelled out by the City? Is CVS in violation of the permit issued by the City?

I'd like to ask John to comment on the following possible historic scenario:
The Pellinis sell the property to CVS. Some members of the City Council are unhappy because they see the possibility of a new development that will invigorate the downtown being lost to a mundane CVS. In fact the mayor actually publicly voices unhappiness with the Pellini family for selling to CVS. ("Keep on taking one for the City, Pellini family [i.e. keep on paying taxes and tying up your capital]. Mr or Ms Wonderful will come along some day, buy the property and build us all an exciting new downtown addition.")

The Council's pique at CVS takes the form of a moratorium directly aimed at CVS's drive-through prescription window (not to be conflated with the other drive-throughs in town. Some of the rationale is to prevent drive-through idling-car emissions that will add to those emissions occurring almost daily from stalled traffic between the central City and the Grange to the east, the fire station to the west, and nearly to the hospital to the south. But every little bit counts.

CVS gets angry, decides to be the bully and sues the City. A citizens' group also sues the City - over inadequate traffic studies You see, CVS will cause more traffic than some other type of urban development. After more than $350,000 of City resources spent on lawyers' fees (most for the CVS suit), all parties sign an agreement that allows the store to be built. But without a drive-through!!

Without more detail I think this new store NOW is better than something else ???? sometime ????? in the future.

Sieglinde

01-20-2017, 06:15 AM

A big corporation who was the only one to bid on that eyesore that had been there for years. I appreciate the clean looking building and nice looking parking lot.

...It's not that people don't simply like CVS. But many people don't like that a big corporation has bullied our small town...because it has deeper pockets than us. Doesn't that bother you in the slightest?

Sieglinde

01-20-2017, 06:18 AM

Obviously the city had never seen a drug store with a drive through. These are mainly used for picking up prescriptions. We had one where I used to live and it was very lightly used. It is great if a mother has a car full of sick kids and doesn't want to expose the world.

... After more than $350,000 of City resources spent on lawyers' fees (most for the CVS suit), all parties sign an agreement that allows the store to be built. But without a drive-through!!....

SonomaPatientsCoop

01-20-2017, 09:23 AM

Hmm, I'm not going to shop there, but I don't shop at drug stores period. But I think the town of Sebastopol, and the city council, handled this poorly from the beginning and cost us a lot of money in the process.

As to CVS, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong but they are the first (and only?) national drug store to stop selling tobacco. They have also been at the forefront of allowing sale (where legal) of "the lazaurus drug" - Nalozone, which can save someone from an opoid overdose. These two things alone keep me from being able to easily brand them as "evil"...indeed...quite the opposite.

I'm sorry- but I don't think we or our government operated in good faith and tried illegal strong arm tactics. Never a good route...

musik900

01-20-2017, 10:06 AM

CVS Grand opening this Sunday 1/22, at 10 am.

I don't think CVS is any more "evil" than any other corporation. But I think the person with the recent post is missing the point. CVS has had a decent location 6 blocks north on HWY 116. Our small town didn't need a 2nd drug store 2 blocks from Rite Aid. CVS moving to the center of town was not benefiting Sebastopol at all. Indeed, it's adding serious traffic to the center and helping change the look of our small town into something most of us don't want. CVS may be a "good" corporation because they don't sell tobacco, but you could have simply bought Nalozone at their old location. No need for CVS to move for that. I don't get why that person is blaming our city council for this issue. They might have handled the deal poorly, but the point is our citizens didn't want CVS there, so we fought it....but lost to a wealthy corporation who knew our legal budget was limited (unlike theirs). Now it's time to let the wealthy corporation know it's not ok to bully us.

Everyone, for CVS's grand opening this Sunday at 10 am, who will be there to protest? Please let folks

vlondi

01-20-2017, 11:05 AM

Again, I'm going mostly by the link Barry provided with the more recent story reported. In it are details on how Sebastopol residents, not CVS, instigated most of the litigation. The only thing CVS sued on was the "urgent" drive-thru moratorium that was passed, which they have a really good point on.

I do know that the city spent a ridiculous amount of money to stop them. That's on the city, not CVS. For people who profess to not want government interfering with their lives they sure do like it when their local government interferes with their lives...for things that they want.

You clearly know nothing of the history of CVS forcing their way in and bullying our city council. ...

jenielson

01-20-2017, 05:41 PM

I will not shop there. I went to a CVS yesterday for the first time in many years, and found that it mostly sells candy and other junk food, and liquor. The pharmacy part is minor.

kane

01-20-2017, 06:59 PM

I will avoid CVS as much as possible, and have taken my business to Rite Aide for some time already.
Between the virtual absence of personnel to help one find something in the current store, to the "Diabetes Aisles" of candy leading to the Diabetes products, to the over-scale building, to the added traffic at our major traffic choke-point, to the sterile building, I don't need CVS.
Nice to know there's another EV charge spot in town though.

Over and Out
Kane

SonomaPatientsCoop

01-20-2017, 07:16 PM

... But I think the person with the recent post is missing the point. CVS has had a decent location 6 blocks north on HWY 116.

I assume you are referring to my post? You claim CVS didn't need a 2nd location? They will be shuttering the other. Are you familiar with their former location? hidden away in a failing strip mall. I had to go there a few times a couple years ago to pick up prescriptions after a family tragedy. It was a ghost-town. IT would have closed regardless of a new store- leaving the equally crummy Rite-Aid a monopoly in town.

Sebastopol has changed massively in the past two decades. As has ever other town I've ever spent time. "progress". I'm not a fan of the CVS- wish it hadn't happened...and glad that at least Chase- one of the banks heavily involved in the financial collapse bailed.

But do you realize how many of our neighbors voted for Trump? Or didn't vote at all? We are SUPPOSED to be a community- not a town run by the "enlightended" hippies and alternatives. As much as our detractors love to call Sebastopol "communist" and "socialist" do you realize how little our town has to ffer the working class?

John Eder

01-20-2017, 08:22 PM

I am currently working on a review of the events regarding CVS in Sebastopol, from my perspective as a former City Councilmember. I hope to post it this weekend.

Thanks for your patience.

Even if you support CVS, don't you just love the really neighborly manner in which they maintained the former dealership property and the "F___ Y___" fence around it for so long? Even getting them to cut the weeds down was a major undertaking...

SonomaPatientsCoop

01-20-2017, 08:28 PM

Someone asked earlier in this thread of you shop at "whole foods" . How about this- do you shop at Amazon? A company with a brutal corporate culture. And who rely on warehouses run by subcontractors, who they can then claim no responsibility for. Brutal working conditions, low wages, numerous confirmed reports of workers living in camps in brutal conditions just outside these warehouses.

I am constantly amazed (disgusted?) at the number of people who rage about things visible in their comunity (N.i.M.B.Y. ?) yet who gladly emprace the many other injustices in our world.

jesswolfe

01-21-2017, 12:57 AM

Living across the street I have to say this isn't a failing strip mall. People go to CVS all the time. As well as Marys, the auto parts store, the mail center, the laundromat, the thrift store. A lot of people shop there and at times finding parking is a challenge. Lucky is not so well used even though their prices for some things are less than Safeway. There are also a couple of stores that have changed hands but the parking design makes for a weird corner that's not as accessible. There was no valid reason to be in the center of town snarling traffic.

Jessica

...Are you familiar with their former location? hidden away in a failing strip mall...

Sieglinde

01-21-2017, 04:57 AM

This is true. (https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/06/business/cvs-plans-to-end-sales-of-tobacco-products-by-october.html?hpw&rref=business&_r=1) I thought Thrifty's (later Rite Aid) had also banned tobacco products but I have noticed that Rite Aid sells tobacco products. It is Target that quit selling them, even before CVS. There are municipalities with tobacco-free pharmacy laws. I don't know if they affect places that have pharmacies such as Wal-Mart.

..As to CVS, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong but they are the first (and only?) national drug store to stop selling tobacco. ...

Sieglinde

01-21-2017, 05:06 AM

I will not go to CVS until I visit the Feed Store for something else. The old location was actually wrong sized for their needs. Rite Aid did the same thing in another town I lived in. I am not going to protest anything.

Sieglinde

01-21-2017, 05:31 AM

Interesting. The one next to Lucky's until tomorrow sold cold remedies and other over the counter remedies, makeup, hair products, nail products and seasonal junk. Handy for wrapping paper and greeting cards.

I will not shop there. I went to a CVS yesterday for the first time in many years, and found that it mostly sells candy and other junk food, and liquor. The pharmacy part is minor.

Sieglinde

01-21-2017, 05:33 AM

Lucky's has added to EV charge spots and I actually saw someone using it. My next car will run on electrons. :)

...Nice to know there's another EV charge spot in town though.

Sieglinde

01-21-2017, 05:36 AM

I was here during the entire astonishing thing. I am not as liberal as the majority even though I voted for Sanders in the primary. I knew how drive throughs on pharmacies work because I lived in a town with one. Did the city council look at drive through pharmacies in other towns? I think not. This is not like a Taco Bell drive through but lightly used. But this city council does not let itself be confused by facts very often.

:hello: I've been struck by the tone of recent postings by what I think are newly arrived residents, questioning our opposition to CVS ...

Sieglinde

01-21-2017, 05:39 AM

I am not a Trump voter but when I moved into this town, I felt like a Goldwater conservative in comparison. I voted for Sanders in the primary. I guess West County Weird applies to the city council also

...But do you realize how many of our neighbors voted for Trump? ...

erinsheff

01-21-2017, 07:35 AM

What time should we show up?

I will be out in front of CVS protesting on Sunday- I encourage as many people who can make it to show up. ...

Shepherd

01-21-2017, 07:44 AM

The protest starts at 10 a.m. this Sunday and goes until the last person leaves. Please consider bringing signs. I hope to see many of you there.

What time should we show up?

Jerry Green

01-21-2017, 10:42 PM

I'll boycott. Their north-town store gives me the creeps, and their business tactics are Trumpish. Bah.....

spam1

01-21-2017, 11:12 PM

You clearly know nothing of the history of CVS forcing their way in and bullying our city council. I guess you don't know that our city spent $336,000 to try and stop them from moving there. It's not that people don't simply like CVS. But many people don't like that a big corporation has bullied our small town...because it has deeper pockets than us. Doesn't that bother you in the slightest?
Pellini's had the right to sell the property. CVS had the right to buy it. CVS had the right to commercialize it in the way that they did. The city wanted crystal shops or something, but the city does NOT get choose such things. It is NOT the city's property. They don't have a right to decide what goes there beyond the limits of the zoning. and the building looks fine. And CVS seems like a reasonable business. So say what they want, the city caved because they did not have right on their side. And, if your protests are successful and CVS says "gosh, you're right, you don't want us, we're closing down" then what? Another 10 years of nothing on the corner? Mind you, I seriously doubt they will say that. You are just wasting your time and annoying others, but then that is your right. And no, I won't go downtown to shop there because it's inconvenient. So now its Safeway or Rite-Aid (but they do have the...slowest....service....people....ever).

Barry

01-22-2017, 06:40 PM

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28449&d=1412985106Here are the major discussions threads on WaccoBB in chronological order for the CVS project over the years. They provide a good summary of the community's concerns. You might scan them to read the Barry's Pick's posts:

CVS/Chase development proposal (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?80014)

CVS/Chase - After the approval with conditions (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?92175)

CVS sues (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?95167) Sebastopol (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?95167)

Behind the CVS Lawsuit: A Corporation's "Civil Right" to Profit by Screwing Sebastopol (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?102634)

Sebastopol and West County Boycott of CVS (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?107957)

CVS Building Permit Issued - Demolition to start next week (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?116659)

While CVS is under construction (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?117904)

https://www.WaccoBB.net/forums/waccobb/keep90days/2017-01-22_18-39-13.png
(November 2014)

SonomaPatientsCoop

01-22-2017, 07:27 PM

You clearly know nothing of the history of CVS forcing their way in and bullying our city council. I guess you don't know that our city spent $336,000 to try and stop them from moving there. It's not that people don't simply like CVS. But many people don't like that a big corporation has bullied our small town...because it has deeper pockets than us. Doesn't that bother you in the slightest?

Sorry- but what on earth are you talking about? You do realize we live in a free country? CVS broke no laws whatsoever in establishing a place of business.

However- our city council, tried to push through a ban on businesses with a drive through window - not in response to any problem with such businesses- but to stymie a specific project (how would you feel about a town pasing a ban on "xyz" to prevent a dispensary, or some other business that was disagreed with solely on political grounds?! ). The city council- NOT cvs cost us that $336K.

But I suppose it's ok for the enlightened to illegally block legitmate businesses where there is no existing law to do so? And you'd be whining even louder if the tables were turned. What hypocrisy.

musik900

01-22-2017, 09:01 PM

Sounds like you aren't aware of what really happened...CVS tactics were clearly not ethical. But you can think what you want. Have a good day.

Sorry- but what on earth are you talking about?...

Weiser

01-23-2017, 10:27 AM

CVS actually opened at 8 am yesterday not 10 am. Having planned to be their first customer at the new location I arrived at 8:15 and had to settle for second place. My purchase. A nice greeting card for my friends Bob Green and Kathleen Schaffer.

John Eder

01-23-2017, 12:12 PM

My purchase. A nice greeting card for my friends Bob Green and Kathleen Schaffer.
Mark,
Tell them I said "hello".
P.S.- I believe that the correct spelling of her last name is Shaffer...
[FYI, John defeated Kathleen (https://www.petaluma360.com/news/2314336-181/outgoing-sebastopol-mayor-urges-end), who supported the CVS project, in her re-election bid in 2012. ~ Barry :waccosun:]

John Eder

01-23-2017, 09:04 PM

Sieglinde

01-24-2017, 05:49 AM

I went Monday. I wonder why they built that false second story. Maybe to accommodate a high ceiling. Not much different than the old one. I did not notice. Did they have Thrifty's ice creme?

SonomaPatientsCoop

01-24-2017, 08:24 AM

David, [aka SonomaPatientsCoop]

I am perplexed as to why an old West County pot dude like you would be such a vociferous cheerleader for a large national corporation that crapped on Sebastopol and vends the products of "Big Pharma" for the bulk of their profits. Weird.

CVS probably doesn't even carry rolling papers... :bawl: am not a suppoprter of CVS. But, even though I am not religious, I am reminded of the Serenity Prayer: "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference. "

CVS is here. The opposition lost (at great expense to the taxpayers by the way it was handled). As I've said- we live in a community - and "we" are not the gatekeepers - clearly a large part of the broader community felt little to no opposition to the CVS. And clearly CVS believes there is more then enough support in the broader community to not only cover the costs of a massive construction project- but turn a hefty profit.

Especially now- there are far greater issues to face...and ones there may still be a chance to do something about.

tommy

01-24-2017, 09:58 AM

rossmen

01-25-2017, 06:47 PM

And yes, this ordinance was adopted after cvs won their case, in response to citizen lament, how did the monstrosity get approval? Hindsight, so clear. This is why roundtable couldn't come back to downtown. And why we have a really bad fish and chips place with drivethrough where mcds used to be (also indegestible). Government sets the law, bizness trys to make money. I liked cvs where it was, because it was imby.

To recap, cvs is in compliance because they are grandmothered in.

FYI, the new CVS is out of compliance with Sebastopol's General Plan. In that Plan, drug stores are supposed to be located in shopping centers outside of the central core - such as where CVS has been located, in the Redwood Marketplace. The central core is for pedestrian friendly businesses, such as restaurants, coffee shops, gift shops, bookstores.

SonomaPatientsCoop

01-25-2017, 07:50 PM

Sounds like you aren't aware of what really happened...CVS tactics were clearly not ethical. But you can think what you want. Have a good day.

Really? Care to elaborate on what "really happened" you think was not "ethical"?

Because I was paying attention before this was on most peoples radar- from years in construction I knew the developer who was pushing this.

And would you please explain how the Sebastopol City Council, passing a temporary ban on businesses with a drive thru, which cost taxpayers...what..$330K... was ethical?

SonomaPatientsCoop

01-25-2017, 08:00 PM

FYI, the new CVS is out of compliance with Sebastopol's General Plan. In that Plan, drug stores are supposed to be located in shopping centers outside of the central core - such as where CVS has been located, in the Redwood Marketplace. The central core is for pedestrian friendly businesses, such as restaurants, coffee shops, gift shops, bookstores.

??? And the Feed Store- formerly Frizelles, which was the longest serving downtown business was/is "pedestrian friendly". Yep- I see people with 6 bales of hay on their back trudging through downtwon daily.

Please- CA...and the US as a whole- are very much car centric. I see people every day driving 1 1/2 blocks rather then walking.

I'm sorry- but nice dream. Until Sebastopol follows a handful of examples and blocks off the downtown core from traffic (and spends how many billions of taxpayer dollars rerouting traffic...where?) this was just another pipe dream wishlist of our grand city council.

Peacetown Jonathan

01-25-2017, 11:45 PM

I noticed that my friend Barry decided not to list my investigative story about CVS (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/content.php?190-Is-the-Sebastopol-Planning-Director-Rigging-the-CVS-Chase-Project)and the singular role that a suspiciously rigged traffic report played in bringing getting the CVS project passed.

As excerpted below, had the traffic study actually measured the current level of traffic heading east on Bodega Highway into Main Street, it would have found that traffic does indeed take more than 35 seconds at risk hour, and this entire project would not have been given the green light that it was. Because somehow Mr. Webster's planning department instructed the external traffic study company to eastbound traffic from High street instead of Jewell Avenue, the Council was provided with a "negative traffic declaration." That there was no significant traffic at the busiest traffic intersection in West County.

The thread is hereL https://www.waccobb.net/forums/content.php?190-Is-the-Sebastopol-Planning-Director-Rigging-the-CVS-Chase-Project (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/content.php?190-Is-the-Sebastopol-Planning-Director-Rigging-the-CVS-Chase-Project)

Excerpt and chart:

I have been an investigative financial reporter for decades, analyzing and publishing articles on major real estate projects and financial scandals for magazines like Forbes and New York. An examination of Mr. Webster's actions in the course of the approval process for the CVS project suggests that at every critical juncture, the City's Planning Director has acted in a pro-developer advocacy capacity, as opposed to the professional analytical capacity to which he is legally and ethically obligated.

Instead of enabling a fully informed review of this critical project by our democratically-elected, legally empowered City Council, Mr. Webster has acted in a dictatorial, domineering manner to push the approval of this critically located, enormously unpopular project.

Our Council has been advised that it is "not allowed" to consider the traffic impact of this project because a traffic study with a "negative declaration" of its impact has been issued. But it seems that this negative impact was built upon a Kenyon Webster rigged foundation from the start. It will surprise Sebastopolians that of the ten sites which Mr. Webster selected for the traffic study provider to assess, the Bodega Highway eastbound access point, one of the most backed up traffic choke points in West County, was only measured from High Street. No further western points, especially the long area to Jewell Avenue, where traffic backs up every rush hour, were assessed. Because any projected traffic delay of more than five seconds from the CVS project would be "significant," and prevent a negative declaration, Mr. Webster removed this "problem," by limiting the traffic sites that the study would assess.

https://i.imgur.com/lQQkh.png
Source: Mitigated Negative Declaration
(https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/rmansour/6877_sebastopol_avenue_cvs-chase_initial_study_mitigated_negative_declaration_4_12_11.pdf)
As a result, the citizens of Sebastopol and our City Council are told they must now legally believe what on the face of it is unlikely and unbelievable: that adding 2,000- car trips every day to the proposed CVS site will NOT CAUSE AN ADDITIONAL FIVE SECOND DELAY heading east on Bodega Avenue.

Sara S

01-26-2017, 08:57 AM

Thank you for trying, Jonathan.....

Barry

01-26-2017, 11:20 AM

Karl Frederick

01-26-2017, 02:54 PM

I have found that, during the school year, mid-afternoon eastbound traffic on Bodega Avenue is often backed up for half a mile, from Main Street to Robinson Road, and I can walk that half mile as quickly as drive it. For the sake of neighborhood residents, I won't mention an alternate route.

I noticed that my friend Barry decided not to list my investigative story about CVS (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/content.php?190-Is-the-Sebastopol-Planning-Director-Rigging-the-CVS-Chase-Project)and the singular role that a suspiciously rigged traffic report played in bringing getting the CVS project passed.

. . . . . . .

tommy

01-26-2017, 05:38 PM

What are u smoking, David?

I don't know if you were around in 2013-14, when the Planning Commission, Design Review, and City Council had meetings about the new CVS. If you had attended those meetings, you would have learned that most people in Sebastopol opposed the new CVS, as inappropriate in its new location.

No argument about hay bales or blocking traffic will obscure that truth.

Why did they oppose it? This from the Press Democrat after the next election when Sebastopol passed a moratorium on new chain stores:

"City officials insist that the moratoriums are not directed at the $10 million CVS and Chase Bank project that is already in the works. Rather, they say they are attempts to control the types of businesses that open in the west Sonoma County hub and promote the homegrown establishments that give the city its small-town feel. 'We have an independent streak and want to do things our way,' said Councilman Patrick Slayter. 'This is a way to get ahead of developments that I don't think a lot of residents would support.'"

I doubt there would have been any opposition to a new CVS in Rohnert Park, or along Hwy 80 in Sacramento. Sebastopol has a different feel than those places, and different kind of people live here. That gives Sebastopol character, which Rohnert Park does not have.

Why was it eventually built? Money and power! CVS had the money to buy the property, build the store, and most importantly, make improvements to the streets, sidewalks, and utilities,.. & litigate the controversy... that no one else had. It has been well documented that CVS has done this over and over, in many small towns: harm the character of a small town by building a store that does not belong there. This is why we have zoning, building codes, general plans, etc. This is what distinguishes Sebastopol from Rohnert Park. Rohnert Park was built one subdivision after the other, without much concern for town character, a downtown, or community feeling. I'm not trying to bash RP, it is what it is, it's just alot different than Sebastopol.

??? And the Feed Store- formerly Frizelles, which was the longest serving downtown business was/is "pedestrian friendly". Yep- I see people with 6 bales of hay on their back trudging through downtwon daily. ...

SonomaPatientsCoop

01-26-2017, 06:22 PM

What are u smoking, David?I don't know if you were around in 2013-14, when the Planning Commission, Design Review, and City Council had meetings about the new CVS. If you had attended those meetings, you would have learned that the vast vast vast majority of people in Sebastopol opposed the new CVS, as inappropriate in its new location. Indeed- I was around- and at many of the meetings. And I disagree with your conclusions. I'd say a large segment of a small segment of Sebastopol and surrounding areas was strongly opposed to it. And I learned many, many years ago not to judge support/opposition by the presence at such at meetings- because you have 3 types of peope that attend:

1) those with a vested interested,
2) those in opposition , and
3) your general local cranks.

And #2 is too often made up of those who are either wealthy, unemployed, retired, or, around here, "alternatively employed". I don't have the luxury of living in the Sebastopol bubble. I interact regularly with people of wildly divergent views in our community- and to be clear- the vast majority of people couldn't have cared less about the project. Some had general unease about it- a probably equal number supported it.

And, for the record- I was totally appalled our council took the steps it did (the temporary drive-thru ban) which ended up costing us $330K++. Idiotic and illegal move- and if this had been a conservative council pulling such moves to block a dispensary, a solar project, etc...

I'm sorry. I don't like CVS being there. Glad at least Chase isn't .But this is (or was before Trump) a free country, and while there was maybe the normal shadiness in such projects, it was overwhelmingly above board and legal. More than I can say for our council's actions.

Regardless- the battle was lost. Are we REALLY going to continue to wast time whining over this which will accomplish nothing? OR can we refocus those energies on the more important issues facing us- of which there are no shortage. But ffs- this thread- and the others, are beginning to remind me of Darrel Issa - Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! . It's over. The battle was lost long ago. And there are FAR more important issues to put our energies into.

rossmen

01-26-2017, 06:24 PM

You called it jonathan, then and now, and i appreciate your attention. Traffic is complicated, and yet it flows like water. Sebtown floods most days, and without channel improvement the inundation will spread farther. Cutting flow is a legit strategy, but always a drop in a bucket. We can wish for alternative solutions, feet, bikes, trains, and do it ourselves, but cars rule.

I noticed that my friend Barry decided not to list my investigative story about CVS (https://www.waccobb.net/forums/content.php?190-Is-the-Sebastopol-Planning-Director-Rigging-the-CVS-Chase-Project)and the singular role that a suspiciously rigged traffic report played in bringing getting the CVS project passed..e.

rossmen

01-26-2017, 07:30 PM

SonomaPatientsCoop

01-26-2017, 08:14 PM

Lots of informed posters have pointed out the errors in your complaints. One example, there was an election, and a new council made different decisions, first temporary, now perminent. If you're complaining about people still complaining, look in the mirror. Sure decisions ahead are more important than decisions made, and lessons learned from past decision making are invaluable.

I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be? I was oppsed to CVS/Chase. We lost. I won't shop there. But it's over... bigger fish to fry....

And yes "lots of "informed" people have pointed out flaws in my logic. You DO realize how much you sound like the denizens of Breitbart, WND etc ?

Good luck out there.

John Eder

01-26-2017, 08:15 PM

"But ffs- this thread- and the others, are beginning to remind me of Darrel Issa - Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! . It's over. The battle was lost long ago."

We can't bring the ambassador and the others lost at Benghazi back to life; we likely can't/won't rebuild the embassy in Libya and we cannot likely find/kill everyone involved in the attack.

We can, however, through concerted effort, attempt to turn this CVS location into an "underperforming store". If it finds itself on that list, it may be a candidate for closure. It may achieve this status on its own, given the crazy access issues...

CVS has announced the closure of 70 locations in early 2017, so it does occur.

Diane Darling

01-26-2017, 08:31 PM

So, we were bamboozled by two multinational corporations who somehow persuaded city officials to find in their favor (threats of lawsuits, as I recall). We lost. Surprise, surprise! We have a faux brick monstrosity clogging the entry to our little town visually and in terms of traffic flow.

But why are we kicking this dead horse? CVS, or at least the building, is there to stay. Let's move on to:
The Hotel.

Not satisfied with making it tedious to come and go through our front door, our city fathers are now installing yet another eyesore and traffic burden in the same area, further impeding traffic and raising the limit for building height in Sebtown. The camel has his nose in the tent, or is it his whole head? What will be next?

Was this the same sort of thinking that laid a major freeway roaring through Santa Rosa? The same thinking that gave us a hideous hole in Santa Rosa center, killing businesses, leaving no place for peace? How long has it been so far - over a year, isn't it? Over budget much? All so we can have a little scrap of San Jose at the heart of our venerable city.

The CVS travesty has to be borne at this point. Do we have to choke down the hotel, also? Then, with a hotel, how about an event center, maybe somewhere on the Laguna?

Yeah, let's face it, the golden age of Sebastopol is fading fast as we are colonized by money. It could be worse, and it will be.

John Eder

01-27-2017, 07:31 PM

"Regardless- the battle was lost. Are we REALLY going to continue to wast time whining over this which will accomplish nothing?"

As former Speaker of the United States House of Representatives Tip O'Neill said: "All politics are local".

That's why I participate in the Trump Resistance Monday through Saturday, reserving Sunday for my special brand of ire against CVS...

I hope to see as many people as can make it this Sunday at 10 a.m., in front of CVS- let them know how thrilled you are by their presence in our community!

starcloud

01-27-2017, 07:39 PM

I'm hoping that if no one supports CVS, they will pack up and leave Sebastopol the way McDonald's did.

tommy

01-27-2017, 08:16 PM

Regarding the 101 freeway through Santa Rosa: it's my understanding that 101 was originally planned for the route where Stony Point now is, but the town parents (fathers & mothers) wanted it to go thru Santa Rosa, for business reasons. If it had gone on Stony Point, there's little doubt that the area west of Stony Point, including Sebastopol, would have the relative tranquility that it has now.

...Was this the same sort of thinking that laid a major freeway roaring through Santa Rosa? ...

rossmen

01-27-2017, 08:16 PM

My point is that your analysis of cvs in sebastopol contains factual errors which you don't seem to want to recognise. Why be here, if you don't want to learn?

...And yes "lots of "informed" people have pointed out flaws in my logic. You DO realize how much you sound like the denizens of Breitbart, WND etc ? ....