What should Democrats in Congress — and Barack Obama, and you

View Full Version : What should Democrats in Congress — and Barack Obama, and you — do now?

Barry

11-14-2016, 08:08 PM

Here's a great article that addresses the question of what should we do now. Heavy on my mind is whether to be as obstructionist as the Republicans were (but remember how wrong we made them for that?) or to accept some compromises where we get part of what we want and move the country forward? This article has a good analysis of that along with other topics:

38217 (https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/how-the-loyal-opposition-will-work-in-trumps-america.html)

How the Loyal Opposition Will Work in Trump’s America (https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/how-the-loyal-opposition-will-work-in-trumps-america.html)
I would have thought a compromise on an infrastructure bill might be worthy, but in a follow up article, by the same author argues that it is not:

Charles Schumer and Nancy Pelosi Have a Plan to Make President Trump Popular
(https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/schumer-and-pelosi-have-a-plan-to-make-trump-popular.html)
His analysis that Republicans are only willing to spend when there is Republican control is spot on and should be exposed. But still, are we just going have two waring camps and forget about what is good for the county? But can we afford a unilateral cease-fire? Do we have any chance of moving the Republican party off their scorched earth tactics, ie doing everything possible to keep Obama (and the next Democrat president) from succeeding? And are we going to do the same thing to Trump?? Oy!

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/keep90days/2016-11-11_16-02-19.png

podfish

11-15-2016, 04:33 PM

Heavy on my mind is whether to be as obstructionist as the Republicans were (but remember how wrong we made them for that?) or to accept some compromises where we get part of what we want and move the country forward?
.....

Charles Schumer and Nancy Pelosi Have a Plan to Make President Trump Popular (https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/schumer-and-pelosi-have-a-plan-to-make-trump-popular.html)there's the short view and the long one. In the short view, how much suffering should we allow when we (well, not me, but those with some influence) can alleviate it? Especially when it's not 'we' who will suffer the most as we allow the lessons to sink in. I find it hard to justify any failure to act when it mitigates the harm that Trump may do. If the only possible action is resistance, that's one thing. But when cooperation helps limit the harm of his actions, going for obstruction anyway seems wrong.

But in the long run, knee-jerk resistance and obstruction just sets up a group that can be blamed for any failure. Who wants Trump to claim in the mid-term elections that he needs even more Republicans to get his program through?

And a final thought - the goal isn't to get Trump out. It's to work toward a better society. If he gets credit, so be it. This is of course complicated by the fact there will be losses along with the gains. If there was a way to ensure he'd be followed by a new enlightened administration, that would be one thing. But since there's not, we have to be careful that we're not just echoing the Trump supporter's desires to blow the whole thing up.

Goat Rock Ukulele

11-15-2016, 09:54 PM

I hear people say We need to come together to make this successful presidency. Or we need to get behind our new abomination of a president. They don't say abomination, I say abomination. If he is successful we are successful.

Forward and successful for the republicans is.

Kill Obamacare
Gut EPA
Privatize Social Security
Privatize Medicare
End Inheritance tax
Ramp up coal mining and burning
Restrict women's rights
Restrict gay rights
Huge tax reductions for the wealthy
Huge tax reductions for corporations.
Withdraw from climate agreements
Put racists in the cabinet (other than trump)
Return to torture
Round up 2 to 3 million
Expand our navy to 350 ships
Huge increase in military spending.
Repeal Dodd Frank and other financial regulations.
and a whole lot more

We need to fight the above every step of the way. Fighting wrong will not cause more pain it will cause less. We must throw every republican in The House out in our state. There are 13 of them. We need to begin taking them out tomorrow. When and if we can take back The House in 2018 we will have subpoena power. All house members stand for election in 2018. With subpoena power we can take trump down. His presidency will be a cesspool corruption by 2018. It already is 100 days out. He is a danger to our republic and world. He must be taken down as quickly as possible

Trump has done the unforgivable by stoking the wretchedness of racism and fear on communities that could not defend themselves. This must not be brushed under the rug, normalized, forgotten or papered over with sweet words. or we will surely march head long into fascism.

podfish

11-15-2016, 10:14 PM

I hear people say We need to come together to make this successful presidency...I don't hear anyone saying either of those things. Who is saying they should give up their principles to make it a successful presidency - especially on the terms you itemize in your list? And who says we should get behind Trump without qualifying it?

the question is whether to mimic the Republican response to Obama (oppose everything even if it's something that you'd endorse coming from someone on your side) or to "accept some compromises" - the phrase used in the original post.

I claim that blind opposition plays into the hands of the group that originated that strategy. Of course you "fight every step of the way" when threats to core principles are at stake. But one problem is that too many on both sides of the divide in this country are so entrenched in their definition of what's right that they refuse to make room for people who don't subscribe to the same views. Even in this homogenous bubble, I know a lot of people who find core lefty principles unattractive to say the least.

For example: having a strong safety net is probably something accepted without question by almost every wacco. But I know plenty of people who sincerely believe that the public policies endorsed by Democrats are counterproductive in the same way that too much support of an alcoholic is counterproductive. I know people who work hard, and are more or less successful, and feel their hillbilly relatives are white trash too willing to live on the dole.

The message of this election is that we don't live in a pool of 350 million people who will agree on the same core values. The power's shifted to people who don't share mine. I want to shift it back, but it's foolish to insist that they all buy into all of my values.

Goat Rock Ukulele

11-15-2016, 10:43 PM

I have been hearing that stuff on the news for the last week.

"the question is whether to mimic the Republican response to Obama (oppose everything even if it's something that you'd endorse coming from someone on your side) or to "accept some compromises" - the phrase used in the original post. "

The republicans blocked every jobs proposal Obama made. What was their reward? The White House, The Senate ,The House. And the Supreme Court for a generation.

Yes play ball if their proposals will help the working class and middle class. But those bills are going to be rare.

But for me this is not I want to stay to the left you want to move more to the right. I can live with that. I can compromise there. But there is a monster coming to the White House that has millions of people in this county living in fear. My African American friends who I met with today feeling hated. Dreamers terrified they will be deported from the only country they have know to a county they don't know at all. Hate crimes spiking against muslims and other minorities .

podfish

11-16-2016, 08:13 AM

Yes play ball if their proposals will help the working class and middle class. But those bills are going to be rare.I think that states the situation well!

But for me this is not I want to stay to the left you want to move more to the right. I can live with that. I can compromise there. But there is a monster coming to the White House that has millions of people in this county living in fear. My African American friends who I met with today feeling hated. Dreamers terrified they will be deported from the only country they have know to a county they don't know at all. Hate crimes spiking against muslims and other minorities .that's what seems to be new here. Also, the attention this is getting seems new. It's always been hard to get people to respond en mass to threats coming from government. They complain but live with it. Remember Reagan wasn't only president, he was governor of California. In neither place did he support any kind of progressive agenda. There are some fun Zappa songs from that era, but I don't recall any major social movements arising from it, or any general popular interest in scrutinizing his administration's policies. This time seems different.

I expect a large mobilization of concerned people who will be quick to notice and react to this administration. Some will come from the mainstream-right, too. I expect it to go beyond Occupy's public demonstrations - I think there will be people in positions of influence who will be empowered or coerced to resist truly harmful policies. I just hope they succeed. And I hope this creates an environment where leaders who really do want to front for 'the resistance' can succeed in reaching a variety of public offices. Up till now, there's been no percentage in promoting real change; people tend to vote for their guy over and over. Looks like that dynamic broke down at top-of-ticket; maybe it'll be more widespread next time.

podfish

11-16-2016, 08:43 PM