Sebastopol City Council Candidate Jonathan Greenberg Public Comment on the General Plan Not Mentioning Electric Vehicles for our City Fleet:
When it comes to responding to a widely shared belief that local government should reflect the climate change-consciousness of its citizens, who have purchased more electric and hybrid vehicles per capita than any other our city in Sonoma County, Sebastopol’s new General plan might as well have been written 40 years ago.
The city’s 20 year General Plan update, which will receive public comments this evening at the 6 p.m. City Council meeting in the teen annex at 425 Morris Avenue, could not even muster the courage to specifically state that an electric vehicle might EVER be purchased for the 50-plus vehicle city fleet. On page 5-12, Action COS-7i notes,
“During preparation of the City’s long-range capital expenditure plans, explore the feasibility of replacing and improving the efficiency of the City’s existing vehicle fleet.”
Compare this language to the State of California’s new legislation that sets a specific target that 30% of all vehicles in the state (https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/californias-new-climate-legislation-what-does-it-mean-for-electric-cars) must be electric by 2030, and one can see how far from the mark our city has fallen.
Even under the Bush Administration, the federal government mandated specific fuel efficiency requirements (which Obama has strengthened enormously). But the best Sebastopol’s future planners can do is suggest that the City “explore the feasibility.”
In a world whose very existence is threatened by environmental catastrophe, you’d have to be a flat out climate change denier to find weaker language than that.
As reported last year in the Sonoma Independent here, (https://www.sonomaindependent.org/eco-fail-on-electric-vehicles/) for all its talk of a green future, Sebastopol’s City Council has been unable to convince the City’s department heads to purchase a single electric vehicle. Two years ago, the city’s public works departments, which oversees the parks of our tiny 1.8 square mile community, was given approval to purchase two diesel replacement trucks to a fleet that does not have a single electric or even hybrid vehicle. Below is a photo I took of seven diesel vehicles, each carrying one person, arriving separately for some tree work in Brookhaven Park. This does not model responsive government in the 21st century.
As a parent, and a candidate for City Council this year, I would our children to see an electric vehicle appear in our city parks, to see that our local government supports its talk of taking action for a green future.
In 2002, Sebastopol’s City Council passed the first of two resolutions, noting that “cities have a responsibility to serve the public interest; Cities can and should lead by example… and give preference in its vehicle procurement to the lowest emission vehicles available.” In 2009, the Council passed a “Resolution Supporting the Zero Emission Dedicated Electric Fleet Vehicles Program.”
The unwillingness of the planners responsible for the General Plan to stipulate a specific goal for the city’s purchase of vehicles for its own fleet, even after two Council resolutions, is a sad reflection on the powerlessness of the taxpayers, citizens, and elected representatives of our community to walk the walk of a green Sebastopol.
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(photo by Jonathan Greenberg for the SonomaIndependent.org)
ChefJayTay
09-06-2016, 09:32 AM
I respect the fact that we're going to greener methods. Electric cars are great... for passengers.
They are not great for heavy duty use, and are not yet an acceptable replacement for diesel trucks. Electrics also have batteries with built in lifetimes, compared to diesels which can be rebuilt (with existing cheaper technology) and used longer.
Perhaps the majority of Sebastopol's work fleet is just passenger use. However, I suspect that they are diesel trucks for a reason.
Arbitrarily stating a percentage should be this or that is rather silly without looking at their function.
Peacetown Jonathan
09-06-2016, 12:01 PM
Thank you for your thoughtful response ChiefJay Tay.
I am aware that electric vehicles are not appropriate for every use that Sebastopol's Dept of Public Works requires from its fleet of eight to ten vehicles.
But I am also aware that it is entirely appropriate for many, many of the routine uses: carrying workers to a park or site, bringing weed whackers, or shovels, or rakes, or a tool chest.
I live near a city park and see what workers do there. I would say that probably 80% of vehicle trips could be done with an electric vehicle. That would be an 80% reduction in diesel emissions in our city and in our children-filled parks. What's not to like about that?
Think about it, friends.
How long have you seen electric utility carts on golf courses and club grounds and in New York City or other city parks handling routine maintenance? And this was before today's electric vehicles created larger, more efficient vehicles with far smaller batteries and many times the range.
Why on earth should we choose to pay, with our tax dollars, for diesel fume spewing trucks to sit and idle their engines in our precious green spaces, polluting the air breathed by our most vulnerable citizens, causing noise, and burning carbon?
This sends a signal to our citizens, our children, and visitors, that Sebastopol's elected representatives may talk about a green future, but when it comes to walking the walk, our local government is powerless to do anything differently than it did during the last century.
I do not believe that this is who we are. We, the people whose taxes support our city staff and purchases.
This new General Plan needs to reflect who we are. :waccosun:
It ought to be revised to match or exceed the target set by the State of California: at least 30% of non emergency service vehicles in Sebastopol's city fleet ought to be all electric by 30%.
ChefJayTay
09-06-2016, 01:50 PM
I see what you're saying about about the smaller vehicles... However, with a small fleet of vehicles like sebastopol has, they are all purpose built for different purposes. I would think in essence, you're asking them to add vehicles to the fleet to reduce their impact for simple jobs.
Not to mention at least one of the vehicles in your picture is obviously a CNG converted vehicle. When I talk diesel, I don't mean specifically diesel, because they can be converted to alternative fuels as well.
Peacetown Jonathan
09-06-2016, 07:06 PM
Responding to ChiefJayTay: first,l thanks again for engaging in this dialog.
Second, as an aside: This is the exactly the sort of conversation that I think ought to be held between our elected City Council representatives, who are charged with overseeing our tax dollar purchases, and the Dept Head of Public Works, in public, and with the sort of transparency that has been lacking in the past.
Now in response: It may surprise you, and other readers, to learn that Sebastopol's Dept of Public Works has 20 vehicles at this moment, not one of which is zero emissions/electric. Not one.
I am attaching a document that was obtained from the City of Sebastopol through a California Public Records Act request from the Sonoma Independent, which I edit. It shows all the vehicles in the city's fleet. Publ;ic works has 23, of which 20 are vehicles.
I am not saying toss those. This is about REPLACING A FEW general purpose trucks with electric vehicles that can do daily tasks, which is exactly what hundreds of cities and grounds keepers and golf courses and parks have been doing for decades.
What I am saying is that I view it as unresponsive to the public, to climate change, and to the City Council's own unanimous resolution (see attached), that we taxpayers are so disempowered that 14 years after this resolution, we have not yet purchased a single electric zero emissions vehicle for our fleet.
That resolution, number 5246, signed by a unanimous City Council in May, 2002, states:
“Cities are significant users of vehicles and equipment, and as public institutions, cities have a responsibility to serve the public interest; Cities can and should lead by example so that residents and businesses will also willingly participate in clean air programs; THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the City of Sebastopol City Council shall identify and give preference in its vehicle procurement to the lowest emission vehicles available.”
jbox
09-07-2016, 09:37 PM
...
Now in response: It may surprise you, and other readers, to learn that Sebastopol's Dept of Public Works has 20 vehicles at this moment, not one of which is zero emissions/electric. Not one. ...
Jonathan, why are you focusing on Public Works? Public Works needs trucks. You don't bring a weed wacker in your Prius. If you want to make a difference get the Police Department to replace all their SUVs and sedans with a Prius. I might vote for you then.
After your analysis of SWMC's "business plan" why should we think you can figure out a city budget Jonathan?
...This is the exactly the sort of conversation that I think ought to be held between our elected City Council representatives, who are charged with overseeing our tax dollar purchases, and the Dept Head of Public Works, in public, and with the sort of transparency that has been lacking in the past. ....
Peacetown Jonathan
09-10-2016, 12:24 AM
Responding to JBox : Jonathan, why are you focusing on Public Works? Public Works needs trucks. You don't bring a weed wacker in your Prius. If you want to make a difference get the Police Department to replace all their SUVs and sedans with a Prius.
The electric vehicles that, as a taxpayer, I would like Public Works to purchase for use in our parks, are not Prius’. Almost everyone has seen the all electric vehicles used in many cities in the USA and around Europe by groundskeepers. They are modified open back vehicles that can deliver people and handheld equipment easily.
I attached the city's vehicle fleet list in my earlier post. There are 50 vehicles in our city's fleet that have been purchased with our tax dollars. Public works has 23, nearly all of them trucks of one form or another.
I am singling out public works in the need for all electric vehicles because:
1) With 20 trucks and three specialty vehicles,public works is the largest user of vehicles in the 50-vehicle city fleet.
2) Right now, for Fire and Police, the other two agencies that have vehicles in the Sebastopol's fleet, the all-electric vehicles available at comparable prices cannot perform as well as gas powered ones for emergency rescue and missions.
3) Public works manages and maintains parks. That's exactly the place where we want to use all-electric utility carts, to replace diesel fuel emitting vehicles-- for every work assignment possible.
4) Many (not all) of the tasks done by public works vehicles, like transporting workmen to the parks, can be done by electric vehicles in a quieter, less polluting manner. The city has more than a dozen diesel trucks that it can use for all heavier jobs.
5) Because our community cares about doing our part to reduce carbon emissions.
6) Because our community cares about modeling our values for a greener future.
jbox
09-10-2016, 08:24 AM
...
The electric vehicles that, as a taxpayer, I would like Public Works to purchase for use in our parks, are not Prius’. ...
OK, point taken. Have you, as an investigative journalist, conducted a benefit/cost analysis of obtaining and putting into service such vehicles? If this is such a great idea why doesn't Sebastopol already do this? How many other small cities use electric vehicles for the uses you detail? If it costs more than the current model which programs would you cut in order to balance the budget? Compared to a pickup how safe for city workers are electric carts on city streets, as you advocate. Can you move their equipment around in the electric vehicles along with the workers or do we need a pickup to follow the electric cart? How does Public Works feel about your idea? Have you even asked the Public Works Director for his or her opinion? Perhaps you would rather raise the sales tax for residents to pay if the costs for this program are not in the budget? As a practical matter how many electric carts are needed? I'm sorry but this idea seems like pandering for votes and will have a negligible effect on improving the environment, though it might make some folks feel better in an amorphous way.
You dismiss the notion of electric vehicles for the Police Department out of hand. I agree about Fire, that is not at all practical. But I do think perhaps half the police cruisers could be replaced with a Prius or similar vehicle. If an emergency dictated a call for a big SUV then call for one on the radio but for routine police work within the city limits I do think electric vehicles can do the job and this would achieve the feel good effect you seem to want. Plus it would be 6 or 7 very visible vehicles, not just 2 or 3 golf carts.
On another subject, as a champion of Palm Drive/Sonoma West Hospital, what is your stance on keeping the hospital open, especially in light of the River Corridor's successful effort to detach, approved unanimously by LAFCO? What funding plan do you see as the most viable option to avoid another bankruptcy? Perhaps a sales tax increase for the City of Sebastopol?
Dick
09-10-2016, 02:34 PM
I'm more interested in seeing his financial analysis to find out if he's learned anything about budgets or the community he purports to serve since the hospital fiasco imploded.
Peacetown Jonathan
09-10-2016, 11:43 PM
Cost benefit analysis?
Glad you asked.
The all electric vehicles that are sold on this website are similar to those bought by the many, (https://www.polaris.com/en-us/gem-electric-car/el-xd) many cities on the world that care to join the 21st century.
They cost about $13,000.
The two diesel trucks that were added to the more than a dozen other such trucks in the city fleet two years ago, similar to the ones that will be added to our fleet in the next few years if we do not have a more responsive, transparent and empowered government managing our city's purchases, cost more than $32,000 each.
It doesn't take an investigative journalist to conclude that we ought to be buying some of these for our parks. Yesterday.
It just takes a taxpayer who, like most of us, wants to see our Sebastopol walk the walk of a green future, with fewer diesel emitting vehicles in our public parks.
And potential City Council members, like myself, willing to empower our city government, through some fresh public interest leadership, to use our tax dollars in ways that benefit our shared ecology and values.
OK, point taken. Have you, as an investigative journalist, conducted a benefit/cost analysis of obtaining and putting into service such vehicles?...
jbox
09-11-2016, 06:50 AM
Cost benefit analysis? ...
Forwarding a link is your idea of cost/benefit analysis? Sorry, but it's a bit more complicated than that. Got any answers to any other questions I posed to you?
I don't think you've given enough thought about what it takes to serve on the City Council, Jonathan.
Peacetown Jonathan
09-12-2016, 12:01 AM
I took the photo below today at Jack London State Park. These quiet, emission-free vehicles cost far less than the next diesel truck would for our city fleet, and it would not impact the city's budget at all.
As for my credentials and background, I invite readers to read my bio and link to many articles and essays that I have written in the past at www.JonathanGreenberg.com (https://www.JonathanGreenberg.com).
All-electric zero emission vehicles, like this one at Jack Lindon Park, seem to work fine for the needs of that park, and for thousands of city parks worldwide. Why not ours?
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And here is a photo of a different style all-electric vehicle with zero emissions for sale from another company that makes them
https://www.e-ride.com/e-ride-IndustriesEXV2-Patriot-Toolbox-Truck-inventory.htm?id=559361&used=1&vin=
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ChefJayTay
09-12-2016, 07:24 AM
Jonathon
You want to replace trucks from established nationwide manufacturers with golf carts you found in a google search?
What's the repair costs and price on replacement parts?
What's the lifetime of the batteries?
I still have yet hear you say you've even talked to the department you are publically suggesting changes to. I'm sure you know more than them about it tho...
You have yet to address, that YOUR OWN PHOTO shows that at least one of our city trucks has been converted to a greener fuel type. Yet keep pushing that our trucks are all earth killing diesels.
When will we purchase these vehicles? Are they replacing vehicles that NEED to be replaced?
Dick
09-12-2016, 09:29 AM
Great analysis jbox. You should be an "investigative journalist"!
I don't think Jonathan even bothers to go to the city council meetings unless it's to grandstand for three minutes.
I don't think you've given enough thought about what it takes to serve on the City Council, Jonathan.
Jude Iam
09-12-2016, 11:43 AM
ahem. an excellent - and obvious - improvement to the general plan has been put forth. working out details is what's needed; disparaging comments and detracting bs are NOT.
you guys have something of value to contribute? new ideas, better ways to do things - offer it up. and let's hear you take your 3 minutes addressing those currently sitting and those at the meetings. see you there, best, jude
Great analysis jbox. You should be an "investigative journalist"!
I don't think Jonathan even bothers to go to the city council meetings unless it's to grandstand for three minutes.
Peacetown Jonathan
09-12-2016, 12:19 PM
I appreciate the calls to civility on this board by JudeIAm and Sealwatcher.
I join the many in our area who like to consider our community as Peacetown, USA.:thumbsup:
It is disheartening to me, and to those observing local politics reading this board, and in other places, to hear the rudeness and accusatory tone that characterizes the persistent posts of the anonymous individuals who call themselves ChefJay and Dick on this board.
I do not believe that politics and political discourse, by definition, needs to be conducted with conflict, accusation, personal attacks, or rudeness. This is exactly the reason that so many of our fellow Americans are turned off by politics and political discussion, and recoil from the very notion of running for public representative office. Or even discussing it.
I think we are better than that in our community.
I am committed to a transparent, public dialog worthy of citizens of Peacetown, USA. Whether or not I am elected to City Council this November, I am committed to a local government that practices responsive government, transparency, and citizen engagement on behalf of the public interest.
I am resolved to focus, in a civil manner, on the issues, on solutions, and on the sort of collaboration that can advance our common good, as well as our stewardship of the magnificent ecology that feeds us.
Dick
09-12-2016, 04:20 PM
I have seen you try to quiet people making comments or asking questions in a public board meeting Jonathan, therefore I do not buy what you're selling.
I appreciate the calls to civility on this board by JudeIAm and Sealwatcher. ...
ChefJayTay
09-17-2016, 04:39 PM
...It is disheartening to me, and to those observing local politics reading this board, and in other places, to hear the rudeness and accusatory tone that characterizes the persistent posts of the anonymous individuals who call themselves ChefJay and Dick on this board. ...
I started with simple questions you obviously hadn't considered, and I don't think have been considered still. This is while you are making public statement(s) about your thoughts on a city department that you are actively campaigning to help lead.
Any frustration that may be extracted from my text, only stems from continued statements without answering basic questions about their feasibility posed by someone you wish to serve. Talk to the department. I dunno... maybe they want this! However, it seems as though you haven't and it doesn't really make sense to me.
metalmonkey
09-20-2016, 10:56 PM
Hey Dude. This a really long thread.
I'm unsure why.
The city has already passed a clear resolution for our tax dollars to be used to buy electric vehicles for the parks (where we want to breathe fresh air.) Lots of progressive communities already lead the way on this, and I'm glad Jonathan is walking the walk towards a green future.
What's so confusing about that?
I started with simple questions you obviously hadn't considered, and I don't think have been considered still. This is while you are making public statement(s) about your thoughts on a city department that you are actively campaigning to help lead.
Any frustration that may be extracted from my text, only stems from continued statements without answering basic questions about their feasibility posed by someone you wish to serve. Talk to the department. I dunno... maybe they want this! However, it seems as though you haven't and it doesn't really make sense to me.
ChefJayTay
09-21-2016, 05:02 AM
Nothing confusing about wanting to be greener... that's not my problem.
Had you read the thread... Actually... why don't you read the thread.
Edit: Jonathan... Still waiting to hear back about your talks with the department and their thoughts on your plan...
Hey Dude. This a really long thread.
[...]
Peacetown Jonathan
09-21-2016, 11:00 PM
ChefJayTay, what is confusing to me is what your problem is?
You seem to be suggesting that there is something that Sebastopol's head of public works knows that the thousands of other decision makers in thousands of other parks around the country does not know about purchasing zero emission electric vehicles for their communities. That if only I would speak to him I might understand the reason why our city has not followed through on its decade old resolution, but instead purchased one diesel truck after another. Or that if I requested this as a citizen, it would perhaps sway his next purchase request in a way that a unanimous resolution by our elected officials was not able to do.
I simply do not believe that.
I think this issue simply represents the disempowerment of our elected representatives to manage our tax dollars the way they say they will, and the way that a vast majority of the people who pay those taxes want them to.
As you can see in the video below, I am not talking about replacing every vehicle. But a couple of them in a fleet of 20 seems like a perfectly reasonable request to most anyone that I speak to about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhHdZxbwKwQ
Nothing confusing about wanting to be greener... that's not my problem.
Had you read the thread... Actually... why don't you read the thread.
Edit: Jonathan... Still waiting to hear back about your talks with the department and their thoughts on your plan...
ChefJayTay
09-22-2016, 09:13 AM
...As you can see in the video below, I am not talking about replacing every vehicle. But a couple of them in a fleet of 20 seems like a perfectly reasonable request to most anyone that I speak to about this.
That's a change from:
...
It ought to be revised to match or exceed the target set by the State of California: at least 30% of non emergency service vehicles in Sebastopol's city fleet ought to be all electric by 30%.
What will the local head of public works will know... is the needs of their specific department. Not what politicians have dictated to them based on their uninformed opinion. You're saying you shouldn't even consult with them, yet dictate they needs to change 6 of their 20 vehicles? based on...?
rossmen
09-23-2016, 08:21 PM
At least mr peacetown is proposing something good the council could do in house, vs the coffee cup tax, or nothing. Give the guy a break jay tay, if we don't electrify, the world will continue to burn, hotter and hotter.
...What will the local head of public works will know... is the needs of their specific department. Not what politicians have dictated to them based on their uninformed opinion. You're saying you shouldn't even consult with them, yet dictate they needs to change 6 of their 20 vehicles? based on...?
pbrinton
09-24-2016, 12:56 AM
Really this is becoming very tiresome. You are like a dog with a bone. The guy thinks Sebastopol should look into using more electric vehicles. You apparently do not. We get that. If it is really such a bad idea, even if he gets elected he will have to persuade a majority of his colleagues to go along with it, so I think we are safe from him being able to impose his crackpot ideas on an unwilling staff.
You seem to be pretty uninformed about electric vehicles, by the way, which have a very long history. All of the milk delivery vehicles in London (and many other cities) were electric 50 years or so ago, and the technology has improved a lot since then. And that is just one example that comes immediately to mind.
Patrick Brinton
.... You're saying you shouldn't even consult with them, yet dictate they needs to change 6 of their 20 vehicles? based on...?
ChefJayTay
09-24-2016, 02:24 PM
Really this is becoming very tiresome. You are like a dog with a bone. The guy thinks Sebastopol should look into using more electric vehicles. You apparently do not. We get that. ...
Thanks for contributing so much to this tiresome thread....
I never said we SHOULDN'T investigate electric vehicles.
Electric golf carts are nice... Until you think of all the other POTENTIAL uses we need utility service vehicles for. The city has to plan for flooding, major electrical issues, fires, civil disobedience.... Same mentality for not having police cars. I'm not fighting against electric... Going green is great... Buying equipment that is troublesome and expensive to maintain and repair for our city is not.
I said we shouldn't have a politician declaring we need this, without even doing research into what vehicles we would use! Without even asking if the department thought it was a good idea!
Is that milk delivery company is still running? Do they have options for us to use? Do they repair stateside?
Jonathon... Still waiting to hear if you have talked to public works...at all...
Edit: Doe anyone even have a viable option to present? that perhaps could be repaired in state? I dunno... maybe someone's mass producing something with replacement parts available. The county and state likely already have in house repair shops with techs who could be trained... I don't see our city having that luxury (again, could be wrong). It's awesome wanting the city to be greener... reality is different.