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Shepherd
10-27-2013, 11:57 AM
By Shepherd Bliss
WaccoBB.net

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Andy Lopez
“Guns are not toys,” my military father taught me as a youngster, as hunter parents also tend to teach their children. “Toys are not guns,” police and sheriff deputies should learn. Confusing them can be deadly.

Officers sworn to serve, protect, and keep the peace should not show off their guns to children and put them in their eager hands. This happened in August of 2011 here in Santa Rosa, Sonoma County, Northern California. The community was not happy about that, and it is even more angered now.

An article in the daily Press Democrat of 2011 shows a photo of a policeman handing a real automatic weapon to a young boy. “It bothers me that he's reaching for that gun like it's a toy,” commented Santa Rosa City Council member Gary Wysocky.

Forward to October 22, 2013: A 13-year-old boy walks peacefully through his neighborhood. He has a plastic gun in his hands. Perhaps he waves at neighbors. No one is alarmed or calls 911.

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from Press Democrat article on Aug 15, 2011 here (https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110815/articles/110819663)Meanwhile, two sheriff’s deputies on a routine patrol see the short boy and call in that he is a “suspicious person.” Ten seconds later that young boy bleeds from seven bullets shot into his body. Andy Lopez lies dead on the ground.

“Suspicious?” Why? Because he was in a Latino neighborhood? Because he was wearing a hoodie, like teenager Trayvon Martin, also murdered. Some of my college students wear hoodies, especially those who are people of color.

The deputy shot-to-kill. He had numerous other, non-fatal options. Beware of a “code blue” cover-up to protect the guilty.

Fortunately, the second deputy in the car had the sense to pause and think. He did not pull his trigger, even once, much less eight times. Not all law enforcement officers follow the Wild West code “shot first and ask questions later.” May the killer not rest in peace, unless he confesses and expresses remorse, as any criminal should.

Andy’s parents, siblings and others may understandably be having trouble resting in peace these days. They read the rosary in prayer vigils for at least the first three nights after the killing. Yes, this reporter is angry, as are many in our community. Anger is an appropriate response.

24088Andy’s neighbors and supporters have appropriately returned to the scene of the murder various times and taken to the streets, even leaving school, for prayer vigils and marches in the hundreds to the sheriff’s office, which is “Closed until further notice.” A mass demonstration is scheduled for Oct. 30, Wed., starting at 5 p.m.

“In an unprecedented, sustained show of public emotion, hundreds of protesters—many of them children—marched for a third straight day to demand justice for 13-year-old Andy Lopez,” reports the daily Press Democrat. “A badge is not a license to kill,” read a banner by Jeronimo Caramona, an eighth grader and classmate of Lopez.

There are many good police officers, especially in small town Sebastopol, where I live, about fifteen minutes from the scene of the police crime. Their good work is made more difficult by this incident.

A former military police, Brian Bushon, is quoted in the daily as saying, “No one needed to hop out of the car and shoot him. The cops should realize 13-year-olds don’t carry AK-47s.”

“Local policing is important,” said Jonathan Greenberg, the father of two young boys, who live in Sebastopol. “If those cops knew that area, they would have known that the boys were playing with toys. No one called to complain. We are experiencing the militarization of the police. They are supposed to ‘serve and protect.’ The deputy was the aggressor.”

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/keep90days/2013-10-27_11-54-56.png“I love the police here in Sebastopol,” Greenberg added. “They practice community policing. That deputy had no reason to get out of the car and kill the boy. That was a rush to judgment.”

Many letters to the daily’s editor have been sent. Among those published are the following comments:

“The police are at war with the people they are supposed to serve. They bully and shoot people because they can. They are armed like they are in Afghanistan. Who granted the police the power to just shoot people and walk away?”

“Police training focuses on hyped-up fear responses, owing in part to the nation’s post 9-11 extremism.”

May these seven shots by a trigger-happy deputy be heard around the world, as the people of Santa Rosa continue to cry out in grief and to protest this unnecessary killing.

The international news agency Reuters sent the story around the world with the headline “California cop's mistaken fatal shooting of boy unfolded in seconds.” That article continues as follows: “The tragedy has reignited calls in the community for creation of civilian review boards to examine such incidents.” An AP story appeared in the New York Times and elsewhere.

The killing has “drawn national and international attention, including the interest of the Mexican government,” according to the Press Democrat. Though Andy himself was born in the U.S., his parents are from Mexico.

"People have to do something," said Elbert Howard, a founding member of the Police Accountability Clinic and Helpline of Sonoma County. "He's a child, and he had a toy. I see that as an overreaction to shoot him down."

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Jeremiah Chass
An advisory panel of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission urged Sonoma County to create civilian-review boards in 2000 following eight fatal officer-involved shootings in less than three years, but that recommendation went unheeded. Since then, at least 26 people have died in officer-involved shootings in Sonoma County, some of whom were mentally ill. Of those, 14 were by the Sheriff’s Office or its deputies, rather than by city police.

The youngest, before Andy, was 16-year-old Jeremiah Chass, a high school student in Sebastopol. His family later settled their lawsuit against the county for $1.75 million (https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20090113/news/901130251).

“People are afraid to call the sheriff’s office, because they fear them,” commented one county resident, who requested anonymity. “I have more fear of the sheriff than I do of criminals.” She suggested that in the 2014 election Sheriff Steve Freitas should be replaced. “A man like Sebastopol Police Chief Jeff Weaver, who genuinely cares for the community, would be a good replacement,” she added.

“FBI to investigate boy’s death,” reads the headline on the Oct. 26 daily. They consider it a “civil rights type of case.” According to the Press Democrat, “The federal intervention is rare.” A New York Times article from the AP is headlined, “F.B.I. Begins Inquiry in Police Shooting of Teenager.” Others would prefer that the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, rather than the FBI, take up the case.

Andy’s was an unjust killing that requires justice. This story is likely to continue evolving for a while.

(Dr. Shepherd Bliss, [email protected], teaches colleges, farms, and has contributed to two-dozen books.)

cjbalive
10-28-2013, 05:48 PM
Thank you Shepherd for this important article that points us to a pattern and not just one incident. It is important to ask questions about this incident but also about the larger systems. I wrote this for Racial Justice Allies of Sonoma County: https://www.racialjusticeallies.org/response-ability-and-andy-lopez/ (https://www.racialjusticeallies.org/response-ability-and-andy-lopez/)


By Shepherd Bliss
WaccoBB.net

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccobb/keep90days/2013-10-27_11-31-01.png
Andy Lopez
“Guns are not toys,” my military father taught me as a youngster, as hunter parents also tend to teach their children. “Toys are not guns,” police and sheriff deputies should learn. Confusing them can be deadly.

Officers sworn to serve, protect, and keep the peace should not show off their guns to children and put them in their eager hands. This happened in August of 2011 here in Santa Rosa, Sonoma County, Northern California. The community was not happy about that, and it is even more angered now.

An article ...

handy
10-30-2013, 07:05 PM
Many letters to the daily’s editor have been sent. Among those published are the following comments:

“The police are at war with the people they are supposed to serve. They bully and shoot people because they can. They are armed like they are in Afghanistan. Who granted the police the power to just shoot people and walk away?”

“Police training focuses on hyped-up fear responses, owing in part to the nation’s post 9-11 extremism.”

---------------------------------------------

This is one of the most perceptive comments I've seen.

We send our young men to train to become murderous sociopaths and send them to countries to murder people they don't know, with whom they cannot communicate, and who have done us no harm. They are free to murder without guilt and without punishment.

Many of those who manage to maintain their conscience end up committing suicide. The worst, the ones who accept the indoctrination and revel in the "power", bring their psychopathy home.

Then we hire them to become cops.

What did we expect?

Smith
11-18-2013, 07:13 PM
Many letters to the daily’s editor have been sent. Among those published are the following comments:

“The police are at war with the people they are supposed to serve. They bully and shoot people because they can. They are armed like they are in Afghanistan. Who granted the police the power to just shoot people and walk away?”

“Police training focuses on hyped-up fear responses, owing in part to the nation’s post 9-11 extremism.”

---------------------------------------------

This is one of the most perceptive comments I've seen.

We send our young men to train to become murderous sociopaths and send them to countries to murder people they don't know, with whom they cannot communicate, and who have done us no harm. They are free to murder without guilt and without punishment.

Many of those who manage to maintain their conscience end up committing suicide. The worst, the ones who accept the indoctrination and revel in the "power", bring their psychopathy home.

Then we hire them to become cops.

What did we expect?


Murderous sociopaths?
Indoctrination to revel in power?
bring their psychopathy home?

I am at a loss for words for your post.
Your hate is caustic and venomous.
Living Veterans are why you are not posting in German.

I am sorry you have a need to spew hate on a targeted group of people.

with love
a veteran

Smith

handy
11-18-2013, 09:21 PM
I merely pointed to a social mechanism which is being put in place across the country.

Any hatred you perceive is your own. Please do not attempt to attribute it to me.

Veterans like you are why I should probably brush up my Russian for the new USSA. Didn't learn much, did you?

"with love"... yeah, I can tell.

I am sorry you have a need to spew hate, but enjoy it if you must. You still have that right.


Murderous sociopaths?...

Smith
11-18-2013, 09:55 PM
I merely pointed to a social mechanism which is being put in place across the country.
....

You sir have lost North.
look away from the sun

Smith

handy
11-18-2013, 10:15 PM
You sir have lost North.
look away from the sun
Smith

You (whoever) have lost the Topic and the Thread.
Look away from the mirror.

ruffle, ruffle:wink:

Barry
11-19-2013, 12:25 PM
<br><br>:chillpill: :chillpill:

Both you guys have valid points. Each veteran is his/her own case. Some end up as sociopaths and some end up senators (I know some of you see no distinction between the two).

It's most unfortunate that so many people have been taught to wage war, which they do nobly, based, often, on misguided political decisions. We all pay that price in many ways, with veterans carrying a particularly large share, but in this case, Andy paid the ultimate price.

Smith
11-19-2013, 07:41 PM
Both you guys have valid points. Each veteran is his/her own case. ...

I should have slowed my posts to this board.
My bad, I do realize you are the founder off this site. This post has a goal of ending any conflict here.
I can accept being labeled a case, because people think like that. Veterans come in all colors, creeds.
To label all Veterans as (...........) is weird.

Thank you

no ban please

Smith

ps: the ultimate price has a collective goal .... otherwise, it is just death.
Andy did not serve a collective goal.

ultimate price not

Barry
11-20-2013, 12:32 PM
I should have slowed my posts to this board.
Thank you.

My bad, I do realize you are the founder off this site. This post has a goal of ending any conflict here.
I can accept being labeled a case, because people think like that. Veterans come in all colors, creeds.
To label all Veterans as (...........) is weird.
That was my point. Each veteran is different.


no ban please
I have not banned you. Rather than "fighting" or "defending" veterans, I encourage you to gently share you insight/feelings as a veteran, keeping in mind that your feelings/opinions are precisely that, yours. Please also be tolerant when other users lump all veterans into one group unjustly, and gently point out that each veteran is different.
https://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7118/5ibp.gif

Smith
11-20-2013, 08:24 PM
Thank you.

That was my point. Each veteran is different.

I see your point

Thank You

Smith

handy
11-21-2013, 12:54 PM
I should have slowed my posts to this board.
My bad, I do realize you are the founder off this site. This post has a goal of ending any conflict here.
I can accept being labeled a case, because people think like that. Veterans come in all colors, creeds.
To label all Veterans as (...........) is weird.

ps: the ultimate price has a collective goal .... otherwise, it is just death.
Andy did not serve a collective goal.

ultimate price not

Vince,

1) difference of opinion ≠ conflict

2) I did not label you as a "case", and do NOT think like that.

3) I did not label all veterans as anything. I specified, "The worst, the ones who accept the indoctrination and revel in the "power", bring their psychopathy home."

4) Death (imho) IS the ultimate price for an individual human. Please explain how you connect this to a "collective goal".

(Thanks, Barry)

Smith
11-21-2013, 06:42 PM
Vince,

1) difference of opinion ≠ conflict

2) I did not label you as a "case", and do NOT think like that.

3) I did not label all veterans as anything. I specified, "The worst, the ones who accept the indoctrination and revel in the "power", bring their psychopathy home."

4) Death (imho) IS the ultimate price for an individual human. Please explain how you connect this to a "collective goal".

(Thanks, Barry)


Hi Handy,
I have no issue with 1 thru 3.

I will try to explain my perception of #4 (The ultimate price)

I see it as any goal. Personal or collective.

Ultimate price:
He loved rock climbing, He paid the ultimate price when he fell, doing what he loved.

Ultimate price
We wanted to stop a whaling ship, Sara and John paid the ultimate price when they would not retreat with us.


No ultimate price
Jim got hit by a train, his death is mourned. A death, a life wasted, no goal to pay for,

Just my take on it.

With respect

Smith

podfish
11-22-2013, 08:20 AM
I will try to explain my perception ... (The ultimate price)ok, a shift to philosophy. I think Handy implied one world view, and you're claiming another. Someone with the right vocabulary should weigh in, 'cuz I never get the jargon right. And several posters on this site have the background! Someone want to name the points of the compass here? Handy's #4 exactly claims the primacy or reality of individual vs. collective, while yours implicitly denies that. Or so it reads to me.

'course this is way OT but probably more enlightening - by comparison, anyway.

Smith
11-22-2013, 08:32 PM
ok, a shift to philosophy. I think Handy implied one world view, and you're claiming another. Someone with the right vocabulary should weigh in, 'cuz I never get the jargon right. And several posters on this site have the background! Someone want to name the points of the compass here? Handy's #4 exactly claims the primacy or reality of individual vs. collective, while yours implicitly denies that. Or so it reads to me.

'course this is way OT but probably more enlightening - by comparison, anyway.


I agree,

Smith

handy
11-25-2013, 03:32 PM
I see the connection you're trying to make, but I find it logically unnecessary.
Ultimate price is, by definition, the price beyond which you cannot pay more.

Gravity sucks, and it doesn't care what you love.

Attempting to claim some "moral high ground" to justify piracy on the high seas does not change the fact that piracy may well carry a death sentence.

Getting hit by a train, whether through ignorance or inattention, gets you dead. No further price can be paid.

Dead is ultimate, goal or not.

Just my take. ymmv.


Hi Handy,
I have no issue with 1 thru 3.

I will try to explain my perception of #4 (The ultimate price)

I see it as any goal. Personal or collective.

Ultimate price:
He loved rock climbing, He paid the ultimate price when he fell, doing what he loved.

Ultimate price
We wanted to stop a whaling ship, Sara and John paid the ultimate price when they would not retreat with us.


No ultimate price
Jim got hit by a train, his death is mourned. A death, a life wasted, no goal to pay for,

Just my take on it.

With respect

Smith

Smith
11-25-2013, 07:33 PM
I see the connection you're trying to make, but I find it logically unnecessary.....

Hi Handy,

Age will kill you, me and us. That is life.
To pay a price is a different death.

Just my ramblings.
what is "ymmv" ?

energy cannot be created nor destroyed

we just transition with our failures and our good will

Smith

handy
11-26-2013, 03:36 PM
To me, when and how you "pay the price" is a distinction without a measurable difference.

Given Your beliefs, Your Mileage May Vary.

Enjoy Life while you can. Say "Thank You" a lot. To others. To Universe.


Hi Handy,

Age will kill you, me and us. That is life.
To pay a price is a different death.

Just my ramblings.
what is "ymmv" ?

energy cannot be created nor destroyed

we just transition with our failures and our good will

Smith