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View Poll Results: Should Efren resign?

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  • Yes, Now!

    37 67.27%
  • Not yet.

    3 5.45%
  • No

    5 9.09%
  • I don't know

    10 18.18%

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  1. TopTop #91
    Tarotkatee
    Guest

    Re: Efren: Should he stay, or should he go?

    BE GONE

    Kate

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard: View Post
    So I prefer he find another means of employment, and sooner, rather than later.

    What says the room?
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  3. TopTop #92
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: Efren: Should he stay, or should he go?

    Richard, I really like your reference regarding the public's confidence in Carrillo to continue to serve in public office.

    If I'm not mistaken, Canada and other nations have what is called, "A vote of no confidence," and this democratic process goes by different names in different governments.

    Contrasting the public's confidence with Carrillo's conduct underlines the fact that the trust people have put in an official that they elected is all that needs to be and should be taken into consideration. It really is that simple; if trust is lost, as the case with Carrillo, then that public officeholder should resign or be ousted with a vote of no confidence.

    Unfortunately, there is no "vote of confidence." There is only a recall as a recourse, and that is not easy to do. You have to organize, gather signatures, etc, etc. That requires money, a lot of volunteer hours, paperwork, and then finally a county wide-election, which costs taxpayer's more money.

    But I would like to also contrast what I have observed are the two main arguments, for and against. Pro-Carrillo Sonomans are saying that we should have compassion and to give the guy a chance. Anti-Carrillo (including people like Henry who voted for him) are saying that compassion and second chances are irrelevant here and I agree completely.

    One thing is to have compassion for a man who has drug dependency issues and possible psychological issues as well. On that level, Carrillo has my compassion and support. But public trust in an elected official is another matter entirely and Carrillo has lost that trust.

    Carrillo should resign. If not, we have the ugly prospect of either having to wait 3 long years to elect another candidate to replace him or to mount an enormous, costly recall effort. Not very good options for a democracy.

    Edward
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  5. TopTop #93
    mamaj's Avatar
    mamaj
     

    Re: Efren: Should he stay, or should he go?

    As far as Efferen Carrillo political career goes he eroded my confidence in him long before his second election. He has turned his back on a proven real estate/predatory lending scam actively going on in Sonoma County, as well as our poorly run D.A. office and court system- alot of changes are needed for this county to finally serve the residents here correctly and protect their rights,not rob us .
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  7. TopTop #94
    Ice Queen's Avatar
    Ice Queen
     

    Re: CARRILLO MUST RESIGN NOW! Demand it. Tell him. Contact info here...

    Of course we cannot wait. We Sebastopuddlers are PERFECT people. We have no frailties, we see no imperfections in our families only in other's families. We have no mental illness in ourselves or in those around us. We always drink in moderation, we never exceed the speed limit and we pay all taxes due in a timely manner. We sleep well and night because we never yield to the pressures the Goddess blesses us with.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by jbox: View Post
    Jonathan,

    Why don't you wait until the whole truth comes out before you make up your mind. ....
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  9. TopTop #95
    dominus's Avatar
    dominus
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    I feel compassion for the woman whose home Efren Carrillo attempted to enter WITHOUT her permission at 3:30am. That is a terrifying scenario. Simply, there is no sugar coating that fact. She phoned 911 not once but twice. That also is a fact. His behavior was remarkably self-destructive. For that, he has my sympathy however it doesn't change my opinion that I believe he is unequipped for public service at this time. I'm not interested in why he did what he did. Efren made a choice that night. No one put a gun to his head and forced him to do it. He brought this on himself and because of that I feel sorry for him.

    Most businesses would suspend employees without pay or fire them who behaved the way Efren Carrillo did the other night.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by jesswolfe: View Post
    I think you can have both compassion for him (obviously there is something seriously wrong) AND question his ability to do the job he has been hired to do. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

    We get in trouble when one or the other are the only things we consider in assessing a situation.
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  11. TopTop #96
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: CARRILLO MUST RESIGN NOW! Demand it. Tell him. Contact info here...

    Henry, this is great! I always admire someone who can do what you've done here....

    Sara

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard: View Post
    To Ice Queen and all others or her "ilk".

    In the category "Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is", we're going to open up a test file: 'Operation Freak Out'.

    In that file will be placed the addresses of test subjects who will have offered themselves up voluntarily...
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  13. TopTop #97
    patnicholson
    Supporting Member

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    I agree that the guy should not be lynched since no violent acts were committed, except possibly the destruction of a window screen. Regardless of his motives, since he found himself in a "compromising "condition , maybe it would be best for efren to spend the time he needs to take to "screw his head back on straight" . This might take some work but seems necessary for him to function at his best in his chosen career.

    It doesn't help that high profile NY pols think this kind of behavoir is OK .Do these kinds of actions serve the public good? They don't serve efren's good, this was very self-destructive.

    Is it possible that the best course here would be for him to step down and then come back and do it again as a stronger, more together person? Wouldn't the longer view serve us all better?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by american dream: View Post
    Regarding the WACCO response to the charges against Efren Carillo, I find this rush to judgment by a generally progressive, reasonable group of people surprising and appalling Is this kneejerk mob attack mode really appropriate?

    The facts will emerge - two facts already known are that Carillo was unarmed and, yes, in his underwear, a dress mode that makes him more, rather than less, vulnerable.

    This may be the end of his political career as it shows such extremely poor judgment, but, regardless of how much one agrees or disagrees with his positions. this eagerness to vilify and condemn him and to assume the worst without further understanding of the whole situation is wrong-headed, small-minded and disturbing. We can do better.
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  15. TopTop #98
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by patnicholson: View Post
    It doesn't help that high profile NY pols think this kind of behavoir is OK
    wow, that's a pretty generic pool you're tossing them all into. You don't notice the difference between the cases? I doubt that Wiener or Spitzer endorse (or indulged in) late-night uninvited intrusions.
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  17. TopTop #99
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    I'm always a little suspicious when a politician gets into trouble ... Ted Kennedy and the Chappaquiddick incident comes to mind, ... this after both of his brothers were assassinated and removed from public office? .... is it that difficult to spike a drink? ... or to push a known alcohol user over the edge in some other way? ... an old friend of mine actually returned from an AA meeting to find most of his valuables stolen and a half bottle of hard liquor left open on his table ... obviously, someone was trying to bring him down ...

    Yes, this could just be a case of a well meaning person who happens to have a big problem with alcohol ... or it could be something else ... there are credible reports of police giving drugs to occupy protesters ... was this to discredit the movement?

    https://axiomamuse.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/why-are-the-cops-giving-drugs-to-occupy-protesters/

    If Efren is known to have a weakness for alcohol could that weakness be exploited in some way to remove him from office?... we have all witnessed the infiltration and discrediting of the occupy movement, so it's fair to say that things are not always what they appear to be ...

    yes, now he gets to defend himself, ... hopefully without the additional burden of misinformed public opinion ...
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  19. TopTop #100
    Damien
     

    Re: Efren: Should he stay, or should he go?

    Do not forget folks that now the fifth district has no representation at important times. If EC stays in office very poor representation for the rest of his term. Lots of bucks$$ for a loser.
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  21. TopTop #101
    jesswolfe's Avatar
    jesswolfe
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Ok that made me laugh :)

    Jessica

    [QUOTE=Henry Bernard;168936]
    "Hello Supervisor Carrillo, Officer Johnson, Santa Rosa PD. My partner and I noted you're fully clothed as you stroll ...
    Last edited by Barry; 07-20-2013 at 03:51 PM.
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  23. TopTop #102
    dzerach's Avatar
    dzerach
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard: View Post
    To all those, suddenly Christian, "cast the first stone"ers (no pun intended...
    Get your scriptures in order. Jesus was referencing adultery with his timeless quote. But more, he was baiting the bear of the hypocritical religious oligarchy he so despised. The Sanhedrin realized this, but were powerless to respond. To do so would have been a public admittance of the hypocrisy. ...His quote was never intended to sanction illegal activity, nor forgive it without contrition. Adultery is a "crime" between two consenting adults, victimless but for the cuckolded mate.... It is a personal matter between two lovers and their respective spouses. Some would make it into a public discussion. Kinda creepy when you think about it....More apropos to our debate concerning Carrillo is Jesus' quote directly referencing legal transgression:

    "Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny."

    All of which sounds pretty darn reasonable relative Carrillo and his indiscretions.
    Church Lady must add 2 cents, in the hopes that she'll be made a scapegoat, thus forcing the discussion back onto its proper, action-oriented rails:

    This made up stoner story from John 8 :11 isn't even in the earliest and most reliable Christian manuscripts and none of the Greek ones. No one using it here or in the other local media has yet to come up with the full line, either. Amusing. Won't even bother to google it. The earliest Christian commentators did not discuss it. Christianity only became such in name, a religion, after it was made a state religion by Constantine. This dim soundbite is not considered by actual Christians to be part of the inspired Word of God. Must have started up after they realized what a convenient bait and switch write-up this was for the state: How to proceed with impunity in all matters concerning governance. Because everybody knows the state is run by a bunch of adulterers? I dont know and I don't care -- b/c good luck trying to blackmail or otherwise coerce someone for the destabilizing sin of adultery these days. But, it is an example of politicized Christianity at its worse.

    Jesus' teachings, which a few only saw fit to write down at least decades after the fact ( lovingly recorded, exactly how many years after his life came and went?) were quickly exploited by the state as a way to manipulate the populace that loved them. Nobody called themselves a Christian until Constantine came along. Whatever completeness may have been there to begin with-- now gone .

    If this happened over here with an elected official , Catholic Central of the Bible Belt, Wichita, KS, the faux-Christian num-nuks and yahoos over here would not even need to mis-apply Ancient Jewish Law so fast that it would make your head spin... b/c the troubled man would just resign out of basic shame and moreover basic consideration for everything at stake including the risk of making the situation even worse for himself. Lemme know if county buys a helicopter for Efren for his back and forth transportation needs, maybe I can use it to airlift my elder outta there.
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  25. TopTop #103
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Me, too, and out loud! Love it!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by jesswolfe: View Post
    Ok that made me laugh :)

    Jessica
    Last edited by Barry; 07-20-2013 at 03:52 PM.
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  27. TopTop #104
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    What would prompt this kind of behavior, removing the screen at 3:40 am in the home of a woman you've recently met? In the middle of the night, the veils are thin, our fantasies and projections seem real, the freedom to take a demonstrative act strong. I'm reminded of a few approaches I made to women, in the past, and luckily was never arrested for. I rewind and replay those today, in hopes that I may feel and make peace with the unconscious urges lurking beneath the surface.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard: View Post
    Jekyll had a proprietary serum, Efren has alcohol. Both are known as kind, intelligent, respectful persons when not under the influence. Both can be viewed as monsters when they are....
    Last edited by Barry; 07-20-2013 at 03:53 PM.
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  29. TopTop #105
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    With all due respect, Henry, what world are you living in? ....

    I am the first to enjoy a good piece of writing, especially if there is humor involved, but this situation isn't at all funny ...

    I'm living in a world in which big money rules ... in which whistleblowers are being arrested ... in which activists are being infiltrated, targeted and discredited ... in which every day citizens are being spied on ... in which corporate interests have shown little regard for human safety or freedom ...

    ... a world which has been bankrupted by dishonest bankers and the politicians that they have "bought" ... a world in which our civil rights are being destroyed one by one .... and you think that it's "cute" or that I'm some kind of "handler" to suggest that one of our honest politicians might be framed? ...

    It would not take the scenario that you describe to bring down Carrillo ... all one would have to do is increase his alcohol intake ... this can be accomplished by placing people in his life to cause stress, by exposing him to lots of alcohol and others who drink heavily, and by making sure that there is plenty of sexual temptation in his life ... the occupy protesters were infiltrated by alcoholics and drug addicts ... this is a matter of record ... look it up .... this sort of thing seems to be the norm as corruption takes hold of our world ...

    Was Carrillo working on something which would cause money interests to suffer? ... Had he uncovered damaging information related to these money interests? ... the woman, was she innocent or playing a role? ... ( in this economy anyone can be paid to do anything! ) .... were the men who hassled his women friends in San Diego sent specifically to do that? .... these are the questions that I would be asking ... and why would I be asking these questions? ... because of stories like this about infiltration aimed at peaceful, innocent citizens who are rallying against big business:

    https://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_7574.shtml

    https://fsrn.org/audio/undercover-police-chicago-infiltrated-and-tracked-activist-groups-report-finds/12030

    https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/24-9


    and I could publish tons of these stories but I'll spare you ... if you want to see the carnage for yourself then do a search using the words " activists infiltrated "....

    or perhaps none of this is happening with regards to Carrillo ... perhaps he's just an alcoholic and got carried away ... but I'm not one to rush to conclusions given all of the verifiable covert sabotage occurring lately ... it seems that anyone trying to do some good in the world is suddenly met with massive amounts of misfortune ...

    Before you rush to conclusions regarding Carrillo or any other political person caught with their "pants down", I suggest that you do some research ... here's an excellent article entitled "Infiltration of Political Movements is the Norm, Not the Exception in the United States" which discusses how past political movements and politicians were infiltrated and harassed ... there's plenty of evidence of this ...

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/occupy...d-states/29750

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard: View Post
    Arthunter, I don't know if you're being cute, or if you possibly work for the dreaded "handlers", having been tasked to whisper sly innuendos. If neither, then REALLY?

    "Hello Supervisor Carrillo, Officer Johnson, Santa Rosa PD. My partner and I noted you're fully clothed as you stroll ...
    Last edited by Barry; 07-20-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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  31. TopTop #106
    sebastacat's Avatar
    sebastacat
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Wow, arthunter.....that's the only word that came to mind when I read paragraphs four and five
    of your last post.

    It reminded of a scene out of a movie starring monologist Josh Kornbluth, The Haiku Tunnel.

    In the classic scene, Josh goes into his boss's office to confess something to him and offer his resignation.

    The boss, who has no idea what Josh is even talking about, after listening to Josh's minutes-long confession, just stares at Josh and says:

    "I think you have an artistic temperament.

    This is what I think you're gonna do:

    You're going to go back to your desk, settle down -- and FOCUS!

    And CATCH UP!"
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  33. TopTop #107
    Glia's Avatar
    Glia
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Golly... and all along we thought the anti-fluoridation people are the conspiracy theory nuts.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    It would not take the scenario that you describe to bring down Carrillo ... all one would have to do is increase his alcohol intake ... this can be accomplished by placing people in his life to cause stress, by exposing him to lots of alcohol and others who drink heavily, and by making sure that there is plenty of sexual temptation in his life ... the occupy protesters were infiltrated by alcoholics and drug addicts ... this is a matter of record ... look it up .... this sort of thing seems to be the norm as corruption takes hold of our world ...
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  35. TopTop #108

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    I don't think this is a likely scenario, but it could have happened. It fits the facts we know as well as the interpretations cited by those calling for Efren Carrillo to resign. We don't know what happened.

    When making decisions, judgments, and statements affecting the reputation and wellbeing of others, it's really important to know what you don't know.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    With all due respect, Henry, what world are you living in? ....

    I am the first to enjoy a good piece of writing, especially if there is humor involved, but this situation isn't at all funny ...

    I'm living in a world in which big money rules ...
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  37. TopTop #109
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Beautifully written Henry ... and my sincere thanks for your concern ( no sarcasm, I mean this ) ...

    I have only added another possible explanation to this discussion, one that is based on proven past and present political sabotage ... it is you who has labelled this possibility as "paranoia", "conviction", "obsession" ... someone else suggested that my ideas are those of a "conspiracy theorist " ... and then there was the word "focus" thrown in ... all to suggest that this possibility is what? ... ridiculous? couldn't happen? ... is that the conclusion?.... If not, then why not consider this possibility? ... Looking for the bogey man? ... it needn't be as dramatic as that ... I'm not adding drama, I'm discussing possibilities ... but you are adding drama ... why? Threatening me with ridicule because I express an idea? .... what ???

    There are a great many facts leading to this idea, ... ( which is not a conviction, or paranoia, or an obsession )... Here is a very good link to illustrate this point ...

    https://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCH...o-methods.html

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard: View Post
    I hear in your words paranoia. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 07-21-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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  38. TopTop #110
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Glia: View Post
    Golly... and all along we thought the anti-fluoridation people are the conspiracy theory nuts.
    Well, golly Glia, I do believe you have neglected to mention advocates for (or against) chemtrails, smartmeters, leaf blowers, perennial candidates, and grape growers.
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  40. TopTop #111
    sebastacat's Avatar
    sebastacat
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Sandoak:

    You don't think it's a likely scenario, but "it could have happened"?

    I think given the fact that Efren has heretofore enjoyed strong support from Sonoma County law enforcement that it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that there is a conspiracy which is being carried out against him.
    If anything, I would think that they would have been inclined to cut him even more slack given this important fact.

    You still don't believe me? Just check out the lists of his campaign donors from the 2008 supervisoral campaign as well as the list from the 2012 campaign.

    No, Sandoak and art, I think that the police department got a call from a frightened woman, investigated, decided that Efren's ludicrous story (whatever it was) didn't pass the smell test and arrested him based on the evidence: The TWO 911 calls; the broken window screen; the fact that he was wearing only his undershorts (b.t.w., I don't care if they were boxers, briefs or thong) and socks; carrying his cell phone (so he wouldn't go into SmartPhone withdrawal) as well as witness statements. Yes, let us not forget that at least one of the newspaper articles mentioned that there were witnesses to this shocking event.

    Myths are fanciful castles in which men and women dwell who do not want to confront the facts or when the facts as presented are just too much for them to bear. Perhaps it is pride and an unwillingness for someone to admit that they have been wrong about a deified politician all along. Perhaps doing so would make them look less than stellar among their own peers.

    Whatever the reason, all of you Efrenites need to re-read the story (which was printed by the Press Democrat, which, I will note, supported Efren strongly in each of his two supervisoral campaigns) and ask
    yourselves these questions:

    1. Would the Press Democrat take such liberties with the truth just to sensationalize the story to sell more papers?

    2. Would the Santa Rosa Police Department take the risk of arresting a Sonoma County Supervisor based on flimsy evidence? Or, rather, would they want to do a thorough job at gathering evidence so that they made sure when they finally did effectuate an arrest that the evidence which they spent so much time meticulously gathering would hold up in court?

    Speculation is a dangerous thing. But the facts as reported thus far by multiple news sources are
    without question disturbing at least and damning at best -- whether or not you want to confront them, and whether or not you agree with them.

    Let's let the police and the courts do their respective jobs, and let us continue to demand equal justice for all and NOT just the rich, the powerful, the influential public officials, the high-salary administrators -- or the chosen few.
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  42. TopTop #112

    Re: Efren: Should he stay, or should he go?

    Wow, Efren caught outside not far from his home in his undies and socks holding a cell phone in the wee hours of the morning (and he had been drinking) after two 911 calls to report a prowler at a nearby apartment by a frightened woman!
    Those are the facts I know, so far.
    The window screen was damaged, but is there proof that Efren did it? Did the woman caller see someone outside the window? Did she recognize him as Efren at the window and/or at the front door? Were their witnesses, and what did they see?
    These are matters for the police to investigate and see if there is enough evidence to charge Efren with some type of crime.
    Looks pretty bad, but I'm willing to wait until I have all the facts and an explanation from Efren about the events of that morning before I can make up my mind if he should stay or go in his job as a county supervisor.

    Hey, what if it turns out that he'd been up all night drinking and playing video games when he heard a prowler and ran outside in his undies and socks hoping to report the prowler? I know, not likely, but Stranger things have happened!
    Tom
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  44. TopTop #113
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: Efren: Should he stay, or should he go?

    The socks?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard: View Post
    ... As far as his fitness for public office, the particulars disqualify him in my mind. Possibly it's the socks. I find the socks far more troubling than the shorts. They excite in my mind images and/or a possible sequence of events troubling in what they suggest was going on just before he made the fateful decision to take to the street. As I see it these events meshed with his obviously incoherent thought processes could have resulted in an ugliness discomfiting to imagine. We need probity and responsible action from a representative. Efren has failed both these tests.

    Henry
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  46. TopTop #114
    sharingwisdom's Avatar
    sharingwisdom
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    I know that these things that you describe happen and quite alot. I've often appreciated your other articles. I totally know how covert things can get, that drugs like scopolamine can be and is used to set things up for people, but I personally do not feel this about Carrillo at all. You're basically implying that there is a possibility that he's set up as a patsy for some reason. I really took some time to sit and meditate with what you've said, and for me, it just doesn't resonate, thus I'm going to stay with my intuition. Carrillo needs to face the consequences of his behavior and not have the Big Boys or the illegal justice system cover it up.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    With all due respect, Henry, what world are you living in? ....

    I am the first to enjoy a good piece of writing, especially if there is humor involved, but this situation isn't at all funny ...

    I'm living in a world in which big money rules ... in which whistleblowers are being arrested ... in which activists are being infiltrated, targeted and discredited ... in which every day citizens are being spied on ... in which corporate interests have shown little regard for human safety or freedom ...

    ... a world which has been bankrupted by dishonest bankers and the politicians that they have "bought" ... a world in which our civil rights are being destroyed one by one .... and you think that it's "cute" or that I'm some kind of "handler" to suggest that one of our honest politicians might be framed? ...

    It would not take the scenario that you describe to bring down Carrillo ... all one would have to do is increase his alcohol intake ... this can be accomplished by placing people in his life to cause stress, by exposing him to lots of alcohol and others who drink heavily, and by making sure that there is plenty of sexual temptation in his life ... the occupy protesters were infiltrated by alcoholics and drug addicts ... this is a matter of record ... look it up .... this sort of thing seems to be the norm as corruption takes hold of our world ...

    Was Carrillo working on something which would cause money interests to suffer? ... Had he uncovered damaging information related to these money interests? ... the woman, was she innocent or playing a role? ... ( in this economy anyone can be paid to do anything! ) .... were the men who hassled his women friends in San Diego sent specifically to do that? .... these are the questions that I would be asking ... and why would I be asking these questions? ... because of stories like this about infiltration aimed at peaceful, innocent citizens who are rallying against big business:

    https://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_7574.shtml

    https://fsrn.org/audio/undercover-police-chicago-infiltrated-and-tracked-activist-groups-report-finds/12030

    https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/24-9


    and I could publish tons of these stories but I'll spare you ... if you want to see the carnage for yourself then do a search using the words " activists infiltrated "....

    or perhaps none of this is happening with regards to Carrillo ... perhaps he's just an alcoholic and got carried away ... but I'm not one to rush to conclusions given all of the verifiable covert sabotage occurring lately ... it seems that anyone trying to do some good in the world is suddenly met with massive amounts of misfortune ...

    Before you rush to conclusions regarding Carrillo or any other political person caught with their "pants down", I suggest that you do some research ... here's an excellent article entitled "Infiltration of Political Movements is the Norm, Not the Exception in the United States" which discusses how past political movements and politicians were infiltrated and harassed ... there's plenty of evidence of this ...

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/occupy...d-states/29750
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  48. TopTop #115
    theindependenteye's Avatar
    theindependenteye
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!


    ... a world which has been bankrupted by dishonest bankers and the politicians that they have "bought" ... a world in which our civil rights are being destroyed one by one ...>

    Elizabeth here -- I have my own very deep feelings about the possibility of a shadow structure that manipulates our visible world in pursuit of its own self-interest, and I won't go into the well-known list of "conspiracies". I confess: I think most of them are very possible.

    But here we're talking about something down home and local, where the frayed ends of the threads are very very visible, not something distant and spacey. Yes, I think we need to back off and see what our judicial system brings to light, and then we also need to question whether influence is brought to bear on that process. A rush to judgement isn't in anybody's best interest, except to the fans of polarization.

    I read reports by Michael Ruppert, and I know a small portion of the history that has produced his present attitudes and filters on current events, a history that reads like an action spy thriller, but is actually fact. It's hard to read the list of people who have met violent and unexplained ends while being on the verge of making governmental malfeasance known and not think that somebody with training and support offed them. But I don't know these people first-hand, I don't live next to them, either victim or perpetrator. I have a very nice neighbor, an ex-military man of possibly unusual experience and skills. Could I imagine him in one of these exotic plots? Well, they do exist, and somebody has to do them.

    Could somebody have ambushed Efren Carillo with a drug? Gee, that sounds looney, but then, so does his behavior. Stuff like that makes sense on Netflix, but not in Sonoma County. Or not not. Every example of dirty tricks and "wet work" got played out in somebody's neighborhood, and everybody involved was somebody's neighbor, somebody's family. Lots of folks are enraged by Rolling Stone's cover -- how dare they print an attractive picture of a monster? We want black and white, so we know who to root for. But think about the news coverage of past insane shooters: always, it's "He was such a nice boy."

    All this is a long way of saying, "Anything's possible." I have played Medea, Lady Macbeth, Marie Antoinette, and Mary Tyrone, among others. Child murder, regicide, misrule, drug addiction, and I have been able to find the roots of all of that in myself, what could have brought me to those awful acts. I don't believe in the myth of an obstetric Norn who waits at the foot of the delivery table to hit some with the Good Guys stamp and others with the Bad Guys stamp. (I still can't believe that adult figures of authority actually say Bad Guys.) We are, I think, the product of every moment of our lives, and with each passing moment, the portrait changes.

    And those in the structures of power have appalling resources to wrench a life astray. Would you like to place bets on the future of Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning and Julian Assange?

    So we're all here, down home and local, in the presence of Efren Carillo and Paul Hobbes, and I'd like to think we can take one step at a time. Stay awake and aware, see what we can do as a community to try to stay open to fact and truth, take collective action to try to avert harmful outcomes, and spray-paint all the black hats and white hats purple.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-22-2013 at 01:14 PM.
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  49. Gratitude expressed by 7 members:

  50. TopTop #116
    goldenday
    Guest

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Well said.


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    With all due respect, Henry, what world are you living in? ....

    I am the first to enjoy a good piece of writing, especially if there is humor involved, but this situation isn't at all funny ...

    I'm living in a world in which big money rules ... in which whistleblowers are being arrested ... in which activists are being infiltrated, targeted and discredited ... in which every day citizens are being spied on ... in which corporate interests have shown little regard for human safety or freedom ...

    ... a world which has been bankrupted by dishonest bankers and the politicians that they have "bought" ... a world in which our civil rights are being destroyed one by one .... and you think that it's "cute" or that I'm some kind of "handler" to suggest that one of our honest politicians might be framed? ...

    It would not take the scenario that you describe to bring down Carrillo ... all one would have to do is increase his alcohol intake ... this can be accomplished by placing people in his life to cause stress, by exposing him to lots of alcohol and others who drink heavily, and by making sure that there is plenty of sexual temptation in his life ... the occupy protesters were infiltrated by alcoholics and drug addicts ... this is a matter of record ... look it up .... this sort of thing seems to be the norm as corruption takes hold of our world ...

    Was Carrillo working on something which would cause money interests to suffer? ... Had he uncovered damaging information related to these money interests? ... the woman, was she innocent or playing a role? ... ( in this economy anyone can be paid to do anything! ) .... were the men who hassled his women friends in San Diego sent specifically to do that? .... these are the questions that I would be asking ... and why would I be asking these questions? ... because of stories like this about infiltration aimed at peaceful, innocent citizens who are rallying against big business:

    https://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_7574.shtml

    https://fsrn.org/audio/undercover-police-chicago-infiltrated-and-tracked-activist-groups-report-finds/12030

    https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/24-9


    and I could publish tons of these stories but I'll spare you ... if you want to see the carnage for yourself then do a search using the words " activists infiltrated "....

    or perhaps none of this is happening with regards to Carrillo ... perhaps he's just an alcoholic and got carried away ... but I'm not one to rush to conclusions given all of the verifiable covert sabotage occurring lately ... it seems that anyone trying to do some good in the world is suddenly met with massive amounts of misfortune ...

    Before you rush to conclusions regarding Carrillo or any other political person caught with their "pants down", I suggest that you do some research ... here's an excellent article entitled "Infiltration of Political Movements is the Norm, Not the Exception in the United States" which discusses how past political movements and politicians were infiltrated and harassed ... there's plenty of evidence of this ...

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/occupy...d-states/29750
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  51. TopTop #117
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    Sincere thanks, goldenday ...


    I should have added one more atrocity to the list ... a world in which our journalists are being silenced ...

    https://www.thenation.com/article/174851/strange-case-barrett-brown#


    and a follow up interview with the author of this article on Democracy Now ...

    https://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/11/jailed_journalist_barrett_brown_faces_105


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by goldenday: View Post
    Well said.
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  52. TopTop #118
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: Efren: Should he stay, or should he go?

    Socks make the man.

    And Carrillo wore the wrong fashion! Can't have that; public officeholders must have the latest fashion down to a 'T.' Our political leadership cannot look uncouth.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sara S: View Post
    The socks?
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  53. Gratitude expressed by 2 members:

  54. TopTop #119
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: Efren: Should he stay, or should he go?

    What socks go best with underwear?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza: View Post
    Socks make the man.

    And Carrillo wore the wrong fashion! Can't have that; public officeholders must have the latest fashion down to a 'T.' Our political leadership cannot look uncouth.
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  55. Gratitude expressed by:

  56. TopTop #120
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

    "Could somebody have ambushed Efren Carillo with a drug? Gee, that sounds looney, but then, so does his behavior."

    Well exactly ... when I first heard of this story I thought that it was very strange ... here's a man, a public figure, who gets so drunk that he shows up at a neighbors' house in his underwear in an attempt to break into her house? ... what? ... the man would have to be out of his mind to bypass any concern for his public office ... and for what? ... a possible drunken fling with a non-consenting neighbor?...

    And this quote from the PD which just adds confusion to the story ...

    " Officers did not arrest him on suspicion of public intoxication.“The officers at the scene characterized him as 'had been drinking,' but not sloppy drunk or anything like that,” Anderson said.
    Detectives who interviewed him later, around 8a.m., did not consider him to be drunk, Anderson said. "

    and this quote from his lawyer ...

    Andrian said that while outside the woman’s home, Carrillo also identified himself as a neighbor.
    “People who are going to go and assault someone don’t usually say, ‘Hi, I’m your neighbor,’” he said.

    So what was Efren working on?

    Land use issues, water conservation, gang prevention ... hmm, no big money here ...


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by theindependenteye: View Post
    Elizabeth here -- I have my own very deep feelings about the possibility of a shadow structure that manipulates our visible world in pursuit of its own self-interest, and I won't go into the well-known list of "conspiracies". I confess: I think most of them are very possible.

    But here we're talking about something down home and local, where the frayed ends of the threads are very very visible...
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