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  1. TopTop #91
    Rnomistakes's Avatar
    Rnomistakes
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich: View Post
    I hear what you're saying and I agree, but the problem is not that "I won't let go" that keeps old issues alive and prevents us from moving forward, it's the caveat that SHE put in the settlement agreement that keeps it alive every day for the next five years!! In the spirit of letting bygones be bygones, when she wants to amend the settlement agreement and rescind her caveat, I will be very happy to sign on the dotted line!

    PS: I LOVED the market at the plaza! Loved my customers and the vendors, and was loved back. But then I was kicked out for no reason (and I have letters supporting that from former board members... Letters that have already gone to the city council) and myself and anyone associated with me is banned for the next five years! I would LOVE to enjoy the "small town feel" tomorrow... but alas, I can not. And you are telling me to just get over it?
    Nancy I was addressing the overall issue of the Sunday Farmers Market and not your "personal bad experience" with market management which is an entirely different issue. I'm not implying it's not an important issue and obviously is important for you. But I also feel it's important for participants to interact in a forum entitled, "Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow" without having to address your banishment and personal feelings which in my opinion cloud the main topic of this thread .

    From your response, you also loved the Plaza Market and felt appreciated by the citizens who attended. Without getting into specifics which I feel is a topic for another thread I sincerely hope you find a way to rectify your issue by dealing directly with the person you have grievance with.

    Sounds like what you're saying is, even though you loved the old market you would rather see it moved to a private venue so you can again participate. While I can understand your feelings, in the end one vendor's bad experience shouldn't dictate the final solution for everyone..
    Last edited by Barry; 04-15-2013 at 04:56 PM.
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  3. TopTop #92
    scamperwillow's Avatar
    scamperwillow
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    The "live public forum" will be the planning commission hearing where the Barlow use permit's application will be heard. This is the very best place to express your opinions and hear from others as well. The planning director has told me that it is tentatively scheduled for May 14 - PC meetings begin at 7:00 pm . In the meantime, you can contact our planning commissioners about the matter. Contacting them and showing up at the meeting will have much more real impact than a long drawn out debate here. Not that I discourage commenting here also - it has been very interesting and a way to get the word out.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by amalia: View Post
    Let's expand this discussion of Sebastopol Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow
    to a live public forum.
    Perhaps the Seb. Grange or the former Teen Center next to the
    Seb. Community Center would be willing to hold the forum?
    Gives the greater public a chance to weigh into this important decision.
    Amalia
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  5. TopTop #93
    Helen Shane's Avatar
    Helen Shane
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    I'm told by the Planning Director that the application by Barlow for the use permit for a market there is currently set for hearing at the Planning Commission of May 14.
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  7. TopTop #94
    Nancy M Prebilich's Avatar
    Nancy M Prebilich
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    I have given very specific reasons why I support the Barlow:
    1) it was the original plan, supported by Paula, people on this thread (the community), and the vendors (I was there when they voted for it)
    2) it offers opportunity to farmers the plaza can not
    3) it has parking, the plaza does not
    4) it will redirect traffic to Morris St. and Laguna Pkwy (did you see the traffic yesterday at 1:00? Awful!)
    5) it will be a fresh management that does not have the polarizing reputation of the current manager.

    Yes, I liked the plaza- when there wasn't a BETTER option. You people want me to have an open mind, be respectful, hear what you say, compromise, blah blah blah, and yet when I set the record straight on false information (like who/what the litigation involved) you respond with this condescending, passive agressive comment. Furthermore, if my "personal bad experience" was a "personal good experience" then u would say it has a place on this thread, because it was "positive," "community- minded," and basically, what you want to hear. With all due respect, I find this problem to be rampant on this board, and that very practice to be hypocritical.




    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rnomistakes: View Post
    Nancy I was addressing the overall issue of the Sunday Farmers Market and not your "personal bad experience" with market management which is an entirely different issue. I'm not implying it's not an important issue and obviously is important for you. But I also feel it's important for participants to interact in a forum entitled, "Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow" without having to address your banishment and personal feelings which in my opinion cloud the main topic of this thread .
    From your response, you also loved the Plaza Market and felt appreciated by the citizens who attended. Without getting into specifics which I feel is a topic for another thread I sincerely hope you find a way to rectify your issue by dealing directly with the person you have grievance with.
    Sounds like what you're saying is, even though you loved the old market you would rather see it moved to a private venue so you can again participate. While I can understand your feelings, in the end one vendor's bad experience shouldn't dictate the final solution for everyone..
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  9. TopTop #95
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    This has been a very active thread. If you are getting instant email updates and would like them to stop, all you need to do is click the Unsubscribe button on the bottom of your email. That will stop the instant emails but this thread will still be included in your Daily Digest.

    Nancy, I see that you have recently summarized why you support the move of the Farmers Market to the Barlow. You have made your point. In fact you have made you point many times. It's time to give it a rest.

    However, there are few of things I'd like you to address:

    1) Clearly you once were a vendor of the Sebastopol Farmer's Market and perhaps others. Are you currently vendor at any farmer's market? Do you plan to be a vendor sometime soon?

    2) What's driving your obvious passion about this? It sure seems to be a personal vendetta regarding your "personal bad experience" with Paula which includes a lawsuit that I believe you initiated.

    3) What is the legal restriction that you think that presents such a problem for The Barlow to welcoming Paula along with the SFM? Is it that you, your sister, (and Dan Smith?) are subject to a restraining order?

    This is a community discussion about the future of Farmer's markets in Sebastopol. I refuse to let you co-opt it for your own personal objectives, Nancy.

    If you wish to continue to participate I'm asking you to moderate (" avoiding extremes of behavior or expression : observing reasonable limits") your postings by limiting yourself to 1 post per 24hour period and avoiding repeating points that you have already made. You've posted 30 times as "Nancy M Prebilich" and 20 times as "lizzysweet" that includes lots of redundancy.

    Please don't dominate the rap Jack
    if you got nothing new to say
    -- Robert Hunter

    There are other members that support the Barlow's request for a Sunday market. This is not an attempt at manufacturing consent but rather keeping and orderly and balanced discussion.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-15-2013 at 09:04 PM.
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  10. TopTop #96
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    I walked over to the site of the proposed market at The Barlow on Gravenstein Court from the plaza. The walk down McKinley Street isn't long, but it also isn't just next store. With trying to allow for the fact the space is still under contruction, I did not find the space all that inviting. The two huge parallel buildings that largely enclose the space are quite formidable and dwarf the small trees that have been planted (that no doubt will grow over time). It's also a very linear space that doesn't feel as organic as the more controlled chaos of the plaza.

    It is a much larger space. In my mind it's open question if it can be filled sufficiently to give it a sense of vibrancy and intimacy even without a competing market, and I think it will feel deficient in terms of both vendors and attendess if they proceed with their plans to have the market at the same time as the plaza market. If the market continues at the plaza, I don't think a second market at the Barlow will thrive, but it would suck some of the life out of the plaza market, earning The Barlow some well deserved ill-will.

    Clearly it seems it would better if The Barlow would have a market on any other day but Sunday, as I suggested long ago. Again, I hope Bret or someone from The Barlow will explain their thinking about this.

    On the other hand, I think the twin/compatabile goals of offering a larger community experience and luring people into the new Barlow space would be served by having some sort street fair along McKinely street, as I believe Paula has suggested, beginning across the street from the market and culminating at the corner at Gravenstein Court. There is a nice community green space at that corner.

    This would also free up the large Gravenstein court for parking that would encourage people to begin their experience of the expanded market from that point (which is also adjacent to future home of Community Market).

    This addtional parking would also make it more feasibe for the plaza market to expand into the full length of Weeks Way to where it meets Petaluma Ave and into the parking area south of the market that connects to Hwy 12, although that might be too much area, when combined with McKinely street fair, but maybe not.

    The McKinley street fair could start off as a monthly event with a particular focus help get it started.

    Space could be made available for community groups, crafts, more music, healers, art, wine/beer, along with the many vendors from The Barlow, etc...

    Could be really sweet....

    The key point is to extend the current market towards The Barlow, rather creating a separate space. The management of the McKinley market could be handled by the Sebastopol Farmer's Market, The Barlow, or some other organization.

    This would create increased pressure on the crosswalk betwteen the plaza and McKinley. Perhaps a crossing gaurd would help with that.
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  12. TopTop #97
    Nancy M Prebilich's Avatar
    Nancy M Prebilich
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Really, Barry?! Really. "Restraining-order?" Implied link to "Dan Smith?" You sure know how to plant seeds, don't you! I hope anyone with common sense sees right through this, and you folks watching from the side-lines, NOW is the time to speak up. This is INSANE! No, Barry, you get no answers to these undignified questions because you, sir, are not worthy of answers. As you said, I've made all my points clear and YOU have revealed YOURSELF!



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    This has been a very active thread. If you are getting instant email updates and would like them to stop, all you need to do is click the Unsubscribe button on the bottom of your email. That will stop the instant emails but this thread will still be included in your Daily Digest.

    Nancy, I see that you have recently summarized why you support the move of the Farmers Market to the Barlow. You have made your point. In fact you have made you point many times. It's time to give it a rest.

    However, there a few of things I'd like you to address:

    1) Clearly you once were a vendor of the Sebastopol Farmer's Market and perhaps others. Are you currently vendor at any farmer's market? Do you plan to be a vendor sometime soon?

    2) What's driving your obvious passion about this? It sure seems to be a personal vendetta regarding your "personal bad experience" with Paula which includes a lawsuit that I believe you initiated.

    3) What is the legal restriction that you think that presents such a problem for The Barlow to welcoming Paula along with the SFM? Is it that you, your sister, (and Dan Smith?) are subject to a restraining order?

    This is a community discussion about the future of Farmer's markets in Sebastopol. I refuse to let you co-opt it for your own personal objectives, Nancy.

    If you wish to continue to participate I'm asking you to moderate (" avoiding extremes of behavior or expression : observing reasonable limits") your postings by limiting yourself to 1 post per 24hour period and avoiding repeating points that you have already made. You've posted 30 times as "Nancy M Prebilich" and 20 times as "lizzysweet" that includes lots of redundancy.

    Please don't dominate the rap Jack
    if you got nothing new to say
    -- Robert Hunter

    There are other members that support the Barlow's request for a Sunday market. This is not an attempt at manufacturing consent but rather keeping and orderly and balanced discussion.
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  14. TopTop #98
    Joseph Askren's Avatar
    Joseph Askren
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Can't we all just get along?--Rodney King
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  16. TopTop #99
    Rnomistakes's Avatar
    Rnomistakes
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich: View Post
    I have given very specific reasons why I support the Barlow:
    1) it was the original plan, supported by Paula, people on this thread (the community), and the vendors (I was there when they voted for it)
    2) it offers opportunity to farmers the plaza can not
    3) it has parking, the plaza does not
    4) it will redirect traffic to Morris St. and Laguna Pkwy (did you see the traffic yesterday at 1:00? Awful!)
    5) it will be a fresh management that does not have the polarizing reputation of the current manager.

    Yes, I liked the plaza- when there wasn't a BETTER option. You people want me to have an open mind, be respectful, hear what you say, compromise, blah blah blah, and yet when I set the record straight on false information (like who/what the litigation involved) you respond with this condescending, passive agressive comment. Furthermore, if my "personal bad experience" was a "personal good experience" then u would say it has a place on this thread, because it was "positive," "community- minded," and basically, what you want to hear. With all due respect, I find this problem to be rampant on this board, and that very practice to be hypocritical.
    I personally don't care if it was the "original plan", and Paula is welcomed to her opinion but I was never on board with moving the Plaza Market.

    I'm all for a market at the Barlow and you've given some good reasons why it could be a good location. But not if it replaces or competes with the current Sunday Market in the public Market. The Plaza Market has it's own charm and adds so much to downtown Sebastopol. There's nothing in your argument that convinces me that the current market warrants replacement. While I respect your opinion I just don't agree with it.

    There was nothing in my comment that was passive or condescending. I attempted to be polite but I thought it was pretty clear. I personally don't care about the litigation and your past personal problems with current management and they don't sour my opinion or affect my overall good feelings about the current market. One person's personal disappointment with the current management just doesn't carry a whole lot of weight with me. And there's no guarantee some vendor won't have a problem with the Barlow management. Such is life.

    I also have no desire to control how you feel about the Plaza Market management , or whether you're community minded. Again, I'm fine with your desire to move the Sunday market to the Barlow, it's a valid opinion, I just don't agree with it.
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  18. TopTop #100
    Orm Embar's Avatar
    Orm Embar
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Wow, lots of back-and-forth opinions on this thread, but there really are only a few people participating.

    So . . . I hope no one is going around spreading gossip that the residents of Sebastopol intend to boycott all our local businesses once they open in the Barlow center, just because of a couple active Wacco threads that contain post about people being very unhappy with the idea of expanded marketing options on Sundays.

    Maybe a couple people on this thread perceive concurrent Sunday markets as competing. But I don't see even a significant number of WaccoBB posters participating here, much less the general community of Sebastopol. I only see one farmer/potential market vendor participating. Please, let's keep this thread in perspective and not assume that it represents what all of us think or feel.

    I surely hope to see the whole Barlow project thrive. I, personally, like the aesthetics of the Barlow buildings and look forward to the charm that will come once the tenants start putting their personal marks on the place and the plants are growing. I look forward to saying: Yes, you don't have to be a big box store to develop commercial land in Sonoma County; look at the Barlow project! We can do big AND local and do well.

    Wow! We get Community Market in Sebastopol!

    Yay! I hope an expanded Sunday market will be followed by a mid-week afternoon-into-evening market!
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  20. TopTop #101

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Thank you for your positive thoughts on this subject. It is a breath of fresh air to see such sanity on this Thread.

    Even if all of the members of this Board were involved in the discussion, it would still be a very small percentage of the population that would be attracted to an expanded market situation in Sebastopol.

    Some people seem to fear change, that's normal. I am thinking that an expanded Sunday Market will work out Very well for everyone in the long run.

    Tom

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Orm Embar: View Post
    Wow, lots of back-and-forth opinions on this thread, but there really are only a few people participating.

    So . . . I hope no one is going around spreading gossip that the residents of Sebastopol intend to boycott all our local businesses once they open in the Barlow center, just because of a couple active Wacco threads that contain post about people being very unhappy with the idea of expanded marketing options on Sundays.

    Maybe a couple people on this thread perceive concurrent Sunday markets as competing. But I don't see even a significant number of WaccoBB posters participating here, much less the general community of Sebastopol. I only see one farmer/potential market vendor participating. Please, let's keep this thread in perspective and not assume that it represents what all of us think or feel.

    I surely hope to see the whole Barlow project thrive. I, personally, like the aesthetics of the Barlow buildings and look forward to the charm that will come once the tenants start putting their personal marks on the place and the plants are growing. I look forward to saying: Yes, you don't have to be a big box store to develop commercial land in Sonoma County; look at the Barlow project! We can do big AND local and do well.

    Wow! We get Community Market in Sebastopol!

    Yay! I hope an expanded Sunday market will be followed by a mid-week afternoon-into-evening market!
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  22. TopTop #102
    Chris Dec's Avatar
    Chris Dec
    Supporting Member

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    So. OK... what does the rest of the community think of this wearying thread? I am finally weighing in:

    I’m a new vendor at the S F M where I sell my hand-crafted jewelry. It’s a tiny little business and I hope my vendor's table at the Farmers Market grows it a bit.

    Reading the discussion here in the Wacco, I feel like a parent dropping off her kid at daycare where the adults have drawn guns in their personal hatreds of each other and care very little about my kid... remember.. my little craft business?

    I want to thank Orm Embar for the reminder that this battle represents a very small percentage of the people, most of whom want to get on to the business of selling and enjoying a lovely Sunday morning.

    When I was preparing to vote in the last election, I found it difficult to wade through the vitriol and untruths of some opposing candidates to determine who would be the best candidate. I wished fervently for someone to take all the advertising and have it condensed by an objective, knowledgeable journalist, and simply print the truth. And I wish for that NOW. No one wants to hear any more He Said-She Said. I am almost ready to remove this uncomfortable thread from my daily email.

    As a vendor (who can’t get a table every week because it is too crowded) I am already losing business because of a venue that can’t always accommodate me. An expanded market would only bring me MORE business. As a Sebastopudlian, I think two markets on the same day and time would not pose a problem. When I go to Target, I ALWAYS go over to Cost Plus or Bed, Bath and Beyond, across a busy SR Av. Each of those stores, by being there, helps bring shoppers to the other. So, Orm, count my voice as heard.

    Chris Dec



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Orm Embar: View Post
    Wow, lots of back-and-forth opinions on this thread, but there really are only a few people participating.

    So . . . I hope no one is going around spreading gossip that the residents of Sebastopol intend to boycott all our local businesses once they open in the Barlow center, just because of a couple active Wacco threads that contain post about people being very unhappy with the idea of expanded marketing options on Sundays.

    Maybe a couple people on this thread perceive concurrent Sunday markets as competing. But I don't see even a significant number of WaccoBB posters participating here, much less the general community of Sebastopol. I only see one farmer/potential market vendor participating. Please, let's keep this thread in perspective and not assume that it represents what all of us think or feel.

    I surely hope to see the whole Barlow project thrive. I, personally, like the aesthetics of the Barlow buildings and look forward to the charm that will come once the tenants start putting their personal marks on the place and the plants are growing. I look forward to saying: Yes, you don't have to be a big box store to develop commercial land in Sonoma County; look at the Barlow project! We can do big AND local and do well.

    Wow! We get Community Market in Sebastopol!

    Yay! I hope an expanded Sunday market will be followed by a mid-week afternoon-into-evening market!
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  24. TopTop #103
    Rnomistakes's Avatar
    Rnomistakes
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Orm Embar: View Post
    Wow, lots of back-and-forth opinions on this thread, but there really are only a few people participating.

    So . . . I hope no one is going around spreading gossip that the residents of Sebastopol intend to boycott all our local businesses once they open in the Barlow center, just because of a couple active Wacco threads that contain post about people being very unhappy with the idea of expanded marketing options on Sundays.

    Maybe a couple people on this thread perceive concurrent Sunday markets as competing. But I don't see even a significant number of WaccoBB posters participating here, much less the general community of Sebastopol. I only see one farmer/potential market vendor participating. Please, let's keep this thread in perspective and not assume that it represents what all of us think or feel.

    I surely hope to see the whole Barlow project thrive. I, personally, like the aesthetics of the Barlow buildings and look forward to the charm that will come once the tenants start putting their personal marks on the place and the plants are growing. I look forward to saying: Yes, you don't have to be a big box store to develop commercial land in Sonoma County; look at the Barlow project! We can do big AND local and do well.

    Wow! We get Community Market in Sebastopol!

    Yay! I hope an expanded Sunday market will be followed by a mid-week afternoon-into-evening market!
    While we may not agree on a Barlow Sunday Market I really appreciate the way you expressed your opinion without vilifying opposing points of view. One of the things I appreciate about Sebastopol is it's an opinionated community with lots of varied opinions. And it is good to hear opinions from all sides of the issue from more participants.

    I also agree on your thoughts about boycotting business. No matter how this ends up I personally will never boycott any local business. Too much time and personal sweat goes into trying to establish a business in this economy, local business deserve our support.. I will continue to support downtown business and look forward to supporting new local business in the Barlow.
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  26. TopTop #104
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Orm Embar: View Post
    Wow, lots of back-and-forth opinions on this thread, but there really are only a few people participating.
    By my count there have been 33 people who have posted to this thread. That's not bad (and thank you all for chiming in!) , but I agree with you that more would be better! If you haven't posted your opinion here yet, please do! You don't need to get caught up in the "back-and-forth" discussion. You can just weigh in one time and share your thoughts with us, including if you haven't made up your mind.

    In particular, I'd like to hear from current vendors at the Sebastopol Farmer's Market, people who would like to be vendors that haven't been included, merchants from downtown Sebastopol, current and future merchants of The Barlow, crafts people, musicians, community organizations and any other constituency, along with just your own personal opinion/concerns/observations.

    In order to keep this discussion on topic, I have split off any discussion regarding Nancy Prebilich legal issues with the farm market and any other Nancy-centric issues, including my moderation of Nancy and the issues surrounding her, to another thread: Nancy and the Farmer's Market. I want to keep this thread about the future of the farmer's market(s) and not about Nancy. Nancy has already posted 23 times on this thread (way more than anyone else) , and many more times on the previous thread. She is welcome to post on this thread at most once every 24 hours if she has something new to say and isn't attacking anybody in any way.

    Moving on...

    It seems this issue will ultimately be decided by the Planning Commission. I have heard a report (that I can't validate) that The Barlow will present their plan at the joint City Council/Planning Commission meeting on April 23 (where there will be a presentation of the General Plan Update report - so it would be worthy to be there in any case). Then, as Helen Shane has posted, the Planning Commission will meet on May 14th at 7pm to discuss it, presumably accepting public comments.

    While I'm sure there will be lots of comments for and against the proposal, my question is: What's the appropriate basis for a decision to be made? Some will argue that's it's good for business at The Barlow, some may argue that it is bad for downtown businesses, some will argue that it will give more vendors opportunities to market their wares, and other will argue that it will divide the community. While I think all those concerns are legitimate points for a community discussion, they don't seem to me to be an appropriate basis for the city to decide to grant a use permit.

    I think they should be concerned about more civic things such as health and safety, traffic, parking, and such. The points mentioned above (good for business, etc.) are really issues for the free market, and not for the city to decide, IMO. A second farmer's market in that sense is no different then a second ice cream parlor. What do you think??
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  28. TopTop #105
    Chris Dec's Avatar
    Chris Dec
    Supporting Member

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Barry, PRECISELY. Another ice cream parlor (used as only an example, Mimi's!) would simply offer another choice for people. Several vendors at the market offer the very same vegetables and lilacs. They don't feel threatened by each other for that competition, because they have something else uniquely theirs to offer. There are many things sold at the market that can be purchased at Whole Foods, but I am almost sure Whole Foods LOVES the market. Look at the potential shoppers it brings into town. A rational conclusion to the observation of crowds, parking and traffic is this: we could sure use a bigger or even another market.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    By my count there have been 33 people who have posted to this thread. That's not bad (and thank you all for chiming in!) , but I agree with you that more would be better! If you haven't posted your opinion here yet, please do! You don't need to get caught up in the "back-and-forth" discussion. You can just weigh in one time and share your thoughts with us, including if you haven't made up your mind.
    ...

    A second farmer's market in that sense is no different then a second ice cream parlor. What do you think??
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  30. TopTop #106
    sebastacat's Avatar
    sebastacat
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Hello, Barry and fellow Waccobbians....

    Pardon my persistence, but I must reply to the points raised in Barry's last post.

    While I agree with most of the points which you have raised therein, I must disagree with you strenuously with the point you raised about approving another farmers market being no different than approving another ice cream parlor.

    I do not believe that these two business can be compared to each other in any way. For one, an ice-cream business is a STATIONARY business in that its equipment, fixtures, ice cream freezers, etc., remain in one place, while a farmers market, like the one which is being proposed, will have up to 100 different vendors who will be coming in prior to the opening of the market, setting up their booths, stocking their products for sale, transacting business, and then taking down their booth, packing up their products, putting them in their vehicles (most of which, I am assuming, will use petroleum fuel), and then driving back to their home or headquarters -- or maybe even to another farmers market in another town for all we know.

    I am assuming -- although I have not confirmed this -- that the rules which apply to a stationary ice cream shop are different than those which apply to a farmers market which is held for one day of the week only and involves lots of movement and setup on the part of its vendors.

    On that basis, I believe that traffic will be impacted by the vendors themselves; unfortunately, it's unavoidable. But then again, I suppose one could make the same argument about the market held in the plaza as well.

    I further believe that if a Sunday market at the Barlow is approved, I believe that traffic will increase exponentially, as you will have people coming into town to shop at that market as well as the current market, and this will only get worse as the number of vendors increases, along with the popularity of the market itself.

    Question: How many of you can honestly say that traffic on a Sunday morning in downtown Sebastopol is not currently congested and that parking, to put it mildly, is not a challenge?

    Once again, I will reiterate my opinions which I have set forth in my earlier posts.
    I will also add that no matter what decision is finally made by our planning commission,
    I am asking for cool heads to prevail and for threats of boycotts of local businesses based
    on their stance on this issue to stop. That will serve no purpose whatsoever. It will only hurt the downtown merchants who have had their hands full coping with and emerging from the worst recession/depression since The Great Depression. Sebastopol is such a great community because it encourages freedom of expression in a vibrant, free-speech community.

    Please, for the future well-being of our community, let's keep it that way.
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  32. TopTop #107
    caverly's Avatar
    caverly
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    The current Farmer's market has the heart-spirit-intimacy that is so distinctive of our blessed-commonunity . By some it is considered the best in Northen California because of these unique qualities{ and i believe this , as do many who currently enjoy it } . It is the intimate space where families , friends, children-parents-adults and neighbors gather together and the value of this is IMMENSE. A Very special social gathering - so much heart&spirit !!! Uniquely small-town Sebastopol spirit . It also is of tremendous value to our small village businesses and helps them survive and prosper by the traffic .

    If the Barlow goes ahead and competes on Sundays , the plaza market will suffer and probably lose much of its vitality . The plaza lay-out is small scale , intimate
    {circular feng-shui } , grass&trees , pedestrian -centric and music in the middle = idylic . The Barlow is much the opposite : spread out , linear , parking between every stall and sterile . No comparison as far as small town flavor and ambience . At the plaza , the music and kids playing and adults dancing around , and shmoozing on the grass all flows together beautifully =priceless . { Take a walk around the concrete Barlow and you will immediately see this significanct difference }.


    To address the needs of the vendors/farmers , why have them competeing on the same day ??? Let the Barlow leave well enough alone { not disrupt our Plaza market which is a marvelous SOCIAL asset of our commonunity } and pick ANY other time of the week for their business and to create space for more farmers to sell their goods . This is a win-win . Sebastopol spoke out loud&clear that we don't consider BIG=Better when they finally nixed CVS/Chase . Quality counts here !!! and the farmers can have 2 markets to sell at instead of just one . Just don't canabalize the Plaza market ; this is the way that Walmart competes and destroys .
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  34. TopTop #108
    scamperwillow's Avatar
    scamperwillow
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    I agree with all of that, except for one thing....The council did not nix the CVS/Chase project - they approved it. although there are still some design changes and lawsuits in the works, the project does indeed have conditional approval of the project.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by caverly: View Post
    The current Farmer's market has the heart-spirit-intimacy that is so distinctive of our blessed-commonunity . By some it is considered the best in Northen California because of these unique qualities{ and i believe this , as do many who currently enjoy it } . ...

    Sebastopol spoke out loud&clear that we don't consider BIG=Better when they finally nixed CVS/Chase ....
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  35. TopTop #109
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    It's been pointed out to me that my post at the end of the earlier thread on this topic (which helped kicked off this current discussion) which characterized a Sunday farmers market at The Barlow as "competing" and a "controversy" may have set the stage for the current controversy.

    Indeed the first post on this thread, which was posted before I posted mine, expressed a similar sentiment. None the less my post was more from my role as moderator and my characterization of the market as "competing" and "controversial" was coming more from my own opinion which wasn't all that reflected in posts by others in the earlier thread.

    So please accept my apology if I influenced your feelings about this development inadvertently. I encourage you to give the possibility of a second farmer's market on Sunday at The Barlow a fresh consideration. There's also the possibility, I suppose, that somehow the current market in some form will move to The Barlow.
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  37. TopTop #110
    joybird's Avatar
    joybird
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    If you haven't posted your opinion here yet, please do!

    While I'm sure there will be lots of comments for and against the proposal, my question is: What's the appropriate basis for a decision to be made? t . What do you think??
    I want to know what the vendors think now. It seems a decision was made to move to the Barlow 2 years ago. Do the majority of the vendors still want to move there?

    When I spoke to Paula about the move maybe 2 years ago she felt it was a good thing- more room for more vendors. I said I loved the plaza and the fountain and the kids running naked and free. She had been told there would be a fountain and grass.

    I do not want 2 markets on Sunday. I do not want to split the community. I want most of all to support the small, local, organic, farmers. I want this Earth and all her inhabitants to thrive. Read local author and Peak Everything Expert Richard Heinberg's address to the EF Shumaker Soceity here https://neweconomicsinstitute.org/co...illion-farmers. In order to survive the coming transitions we NEED small local farmers, 50 million of them. And for them to survive we need to support them now so we will have them in the future.

    Let's base our decisions on sustainability for the next 7 generations.

    Joy Helstien
    not a vendor or merchant
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  39. TopTop #111
    sebastacat's Avatar
    sebastacat
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Thanks for your heart-felt post, Joybird.

    Yes, I sure would like to see a fountain and grass at the Barlow, but unfortunately, we're not going to get it.
    In fact, so far as I can tell, there really is no community space there at all. And I believe that's because the first architect for the project, who was none other than Ms. Kathy Austin, designed it that way. We have her to thank for putting her indelible stamp on the project...and the ones who will suffer will be the citizens of Sebastopol and the patrons of the Barlow.

    Just think how much nicer the project would have looked and felt if a community square, complete with a fountain and green area, had been provided for the enjoyment of all. I have no idea where all these weary shoppers that they're anticipating patronizing the many businesses over there are going to seek respite. Ironically, if they have any energy left after lugging their bags around on the hot asphalt, maybe they'll be able to make it back over to the town square, and if they're lucky, they just might find an empty spot on one of the city's community benches.

    A great opportunity lost. Such a pity.
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  41. TopTop #112
    Esther Shain's Avatar
    Esther Shain
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Yes. I want to be a vendor at the new market.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by joybird: View Post
    I want to know what the vendors think now. It seems a decision was made to move to the Barlow 2 years ago. Do the majority of the vendors still want to move there?
    ...
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  43. TopTop #113
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat: View Post
    Yes, I sure would like to see a fountain and grass at the Barlow, but unfortunately, we're not going to get it. In fact, so far as I can tell, there really is no community space there at all. And I believe that's because the first architect for the project, who was none other than Ms. Kathy Austin, designed it that way.
    There's at least two bits of misinformation above. First, there have been several architects on The Barlow. The one immediately proceeding Kathy Austin was Thad Geldert out of Sonoma. I don't know who was responsible for what.

    Also, there is a bocce ball court, that I imagine will be used for other things too, in the center of the project, plus I'm pretty sure there are benches scattered around as well.
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  45. TopTop #114
    sebastacat's Avatar
    sebastacat
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Thanks for your post, Barry.

    I really don't care who is responsible -- Geldert OR Austin. It is a major flaw in the project. And it should have been corrected BEFORE the project was built.

    Nice that they have a Bocce Court. However, I sure hope that they don't use it for anything else.
    The thought of thousands of trampling feet stomping on that ground makes this Italian boy cringe with pain!

    I'd like to see anyone try to use one of the Bocce Courts in S.F. as a "green area." All of those competitive Bocce players would run them out of the city! And for good reason! Bocce courts must remain smooth and level, or else, how are you going to play the game? Neither shallow footprints from tennis shoes nor deep boot-gashes will do.

    Hopefully, there will be more benches added, as it doesn't seem like there are many now.
    Perhaps this is just a kink to be worked out later. Let's hope so.
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  47. TopTop #115
    Orm Embar's Avatar
    Orm Embar
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Okay, I was happy to wait for the project to be finished and opened to the public to see what treats would be waiting inside. But . . . this thread got me curious. So - I went to the website and found this description of features:
    https://www.thebarlow.net/project/benefits

    and this set of renderings and actual photos:
    https://www.thebarlow.net/project/photos

    You can also click on another page to see the site plan, but I find it a guessing game without the legend telling us what each color means. I can guess, but I'd rather not make assumptions.

    I'm happy to say I see green grass, a mature tree, many areas for plants and future trees to grow, and most important to me: lots of pedestrian walkways so all the parking does not translate into a dangerous prairie of car parking, but a nice mix for the mix of people who will use many different ways to get to the Barlow.

    Well, now my curiosity has grown . . . does anyone know when it will open? I know there was a setback to Community Market moving in but I'm curious if others are still set to open this spring.



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat: View Post
    Thanks for your post, Barry.
    I really don't care who is responsible -- Geldert OR Austin. It is a major flaw in the project. And it should have been corrected BEFORE the project was built.
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  49. TopTop #116
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat: View Post
    Thanks for your heart-felt post, Joybird.

    Yes, I sure would like to see a fountain and grass at the Barlow, but unfortunately, we're not going to get it.
    In fact, so far as I can tell, there really is no community space there at all. And I believe that's because the first architect for the project, who was none other than Ms. Kathy Austin, designed it that way. We have her to thank for putting her indelible stamp on the project...and the ones who will suffer will be the citizens of Sebastopol and the patrons of the Barlow.

    Just think how much nicer the project would have looked and felt if a community square, complete with a fountain and green area, had been provided for the enjoyment of all. I have no idea where all these weary shoppers that they're anticipating patronizing the many businesses over there are going to seek respite. Ironically, if they have any energy left after lugging their bags around on the hot asphalt, maybe they'll be able to make it back over to the town square, and if they're lucky, they just might find an empty spot on one of the city's community benches.

    A great opportunity lost. Such a pity.
    Hey, hold on just a cotton pickin' minute. The Barlow is still a work in progress, it isn't even finished yet. I don't think there are any up and running small businesses there yet. Why be prejudicial and jump to conclusions? Give it a chance to come to life, to evolve as a public space, to assume warmth and color over time and be a locus for the cultural humanity that Sebastopol willl inevitably offer. To say it's an opportunity lost is just a trifle premature, dontcha think, sebastacat? I think my vision of the space is a pretty cool place with lots of local, home-grown entreprenurial businesses and spirit that will reflect quite positively on Sebastopol. I think it's a natural spot for a lively, quirky farmers market. I think the plaza market with its legal and management baggage should fade away and at the same time the vendors there should be made to feel welcome by the Barlow. Cast off all the old tired BS and make a new start in a new spot and make the new spot a place that the community can get behind and be proud of. Let's be progressive, not tired old conservatives who can't deal with any change.
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  51. TopTop #117
    sebastacat's Avatar
    sebastacat
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    jBox....

    Agreed. These are just a couple of my observations. I do want the Barlow to succeed, but I wish that there had been a community square incorporated into the design. So far, I don't see it. Perhaps the small grass area at the west end of the project?

    Also, I hope that the folks running the Barlow will reconsider holding the Sunday Market simultaneously with the original Sebastopol Farmers Market and will instead opt for an afternoon-into-evening market instead, similar to the Santa Rosa Farmers Market, but better. This is somthing that I feel would not only be beneficial for our community, but would help our small farmers to succeed as well.

    Just think, a Sebastopol evening market could become THE draw of the town, THE big event of the week in the west county, bringing in people from miles around to sample our agricultural bounty and to experience our wonderful town each week.

    The community wins; the farmers win. Now THAT'S progressive!

    Think about it.
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  53. TopTop #118
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat: View Post
    jBox....

    Agreed. These are just a couple of my observations. I do want the Barlow to succeed, but I wish that there had been a community square incorporated into the design. So far, I don't see it. Perhaps the small grass area at the west end of the project?

    Also, I hope that the folks running the Barlow will reconsider holding the Sunday Market simultaneously with the original Sebastopol Farmers Market and will instead opt for an afternoon-into-evening market instead, similar to the Santa Rosa Farmers Market, but better. This is somthing that I feel would not only be beneficial for our community, but would help our small farmers to succeed as well.

    Just think, a Sebastopol evening market could become THE draw of the town, THE big event of the week in the west county, bringing in people from miles around to sample our agricultural bounty and to experience our wonderful town each week.

    The community wins; the farmers win. Now THAT'S progressive!

    Think about it.
    I've thought about it and I don't know why people are stuck on the idea of competing markets. There should be ONE market, at the Barlow. Everybody wins except the current Management of the current market. The market, the location, and the community should all come before the current management. This all seems so clear to me, let's not be divisive, why not move forward in a better direction with a bigger, better market at the superior location.
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  55. TopTop #119
    Serendipity's Avatar
    Serendipity
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    In some ways, I think it doesn't matter... there are millions of different kinds of people and all kinds of interests and people will go where they feel and whoever wants to hug and smile will hug and smile. And maybe you'll miss someone you want to see and maybe you'll never know who or what you're missing and we'll all be fine.

    THAT IS, until we are in a car and driving... I just hope our town thinks to post signs all over to REMIND EVERYONE that this town is a Citti Slow... Yes, Walk. Yes, Ride Bike. And yes, when you drive, with the change of the Barlow, expect Hwy 12 to be "REALLY CITTI SLOW" {Let's sing it~ shitty slo, chitty slow- really, really citti slooooo..." But maybe there will be parades outside of the Goodwill and some sign spinners who are good dancers and then we may be entertained, while we inch toward the traffic signals....

    My opinion of the Barlow is mostly that someone (probably a male) missed the mark in terms of aesthetics. The aluminum box look really doesn't appeal to me.

    I do look forward to having Zazu in town.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-22-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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  57. TopTop #120
    scamperwillow's Avatar
    scamperwillow
     

    Re: Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow????

    There's an article on this topic in this week's Sonoma West Times and News.
    https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_we...a4bcf887a.html
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