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  1. TopTop #1
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Well, the End of the World is finally upon us!
    How you are feeling about that?
    Are you anxious? Excited? Bored? Disturbed? Or...?

    How do you plan to honor the occasion?
    Gather in a spiritual community?
    Party your ass off?
    Hibernate till the hysteria blows over?
    Om for world peace?
    Look for shopping bargains?

    Do you think anything will change?
    Did you think anything changed around the Harmonic Convergence?

    Please share your thoughts!
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  3. TopTop #2
    Bird Watcher's Avatar
    Bird Watcher
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    Well, the End of the World is finally upon us!
    How you are feeling about that?
    Are you anxious? Excited? Bored? Disturbed? Or...?

    How do you plan to honor the occasion?
    Gather in a spiritual community?
    Party your ass off?
    Hibernate till the hysteria blows over?
    Om for world peace?
    Look for shopping bargains?

    Do you think anything will change?
    Did you think anything changed around the Harmonic Convergence?

    Please share your thoughts!
    Really, Barry? Is this a red herring? Haven't you heard the recent news stories interviewing the anthropologists? That Mayan calendar date was in no way intended to signal the end of the world.

    My feeling is we have to be ready to wake up each and every morning to greet a new day. Don't burn any bridges, people! Embrace the future -- there's no easy way out!

    (But if folks need a reason to change the world for the better, I'm all for it.)

    Pam
    Last edited by Barry; 12-18-2012 at 05:11 PM.
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  5. TopTop #3
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    I have no expectations: I'm open to whatever happens, if anything. We have to admit that things have been shifting dramatically for quite awhile already, but if we've been safe and sound in our own little cocoon, we may feel insulated from all that we are aware of through the news (which I don't watch) or hear from others (which I get anyway).

    I've heard that there may be 3 days of darkness, which I think would shake us up a bit, and I think it could be a positive thing. If people could realize that we really are inter-dependent, and able to evolve to a higher level things could change. (How much higher, I'm not sure, because I think we're mostly pretty dense here.)

    I'm wishing that I could be near my only family of 2 sons and 3 grand children, but one lives in Hawaii, and he other in Orange county. At the very least, I hope to talk with them on the phone, but I imagine the phone lines may be pretty busy, as on most holidays.
    My plan is to create a meal for two people who are mentally ill, and don't have much to eat. I plan to have candles, flowers, and maybe a fire. I've bought some little gifts that I know they need.

    If things do come down, I'll be doing what I've done most of my life, sharing what I have with those who have even less. I wish others would do the same, if only for the joy of it.

    Recently I had the honor of saving a person from killing themselves. This was a first for me; I wasn't around when my brother killed himself, so this one was for him. It was scary, and although I made the required calls, I was alone with the person and the gun. I was able to hide it, as I was advised by the crisis counselor.

    I held this person in my arms as he sobbed and convulsed. I stayed the night and the next day, and took him with me to another friend's house for Thanksgiving. He's very isolated and has no friends, since he's usually depressed about not having enough income to pay the basic living expenses. He told me that it was the best Thanksgiving he ever had. I had taken him to another mentally ill person's house, and they played with a "seal a meal" while I prepared dinner. They're both ADD and Dyslexic, and are afflicted with manic depression. They were having such a good time trying to figure out how to use it, I could hardly believe what I was witnessing. They were laughing like kids. They're both in their 60's.

    On the way home, my post suicidal friend said "He's just like me!" and I said "Yes, he is!" Isn't great that you were able to enjoy each other's company? That's when he told me it was the best Thanksgiving ever.

    So, I'm going to take a chance and see if they can create some more fun, although I don't have a "seal a meal", I'll have to think about what might work instead. Any ideas?

    I wish that more people could step out of their comfort zone, and embrace someone they would normally shun. This act alone could create a shift. I wonder how many of us would be willing to do that? I'd love to hear what others have planned.

    Barry, thanks for asking this question. I don't think of it as a red herring, but a very real opportunity to share thoughts and feelings about this predicted time. If people think nothing of it, that's something to share. We're a community, and we share our thoughts and feelings on all kinds of things, important and superficial. Why not this?

    ,
    Quote Bird Watcher wrote: View Post
    Really, Barry? Is this a red herring? Haven't you heard the recent news stories interviewing the anthropologists? That Mayan calendar date was in no way intended to signal the end of the world.

    My feeling we have to be ready to wake up each and every morning to greet a new day. Don't burn any bridges, people! Embrace the future -- there's no easy way out!

    (But if folks need a reason to change the world for the better, I'm all for it.)

    Pam
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  7. TopTop #4
    BobHeisler's Avatar
    BobHeisler
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    I think the Mayans just ran out of time when they were putting together their calendar. I believe NOTHING will happen on December 21st. It's just like the harmonic convergence that was talked up in the media in the 90s. It was supposed to usher in a new era of understanding, peace and cooperation. Yeah, that lasted about 20 minutes. The world can wake up on December 22nd and breathe a collective sigh of relief that the end of the world was another fantasy that triggered History Channel documentaries, a few books and some income for people who looked to capitalize on the false phenomenon.
    Last edited by Barry; 12-18-2012 at 05:12 PM.
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  9. TopTop #5
    theindependenteye's Avatar
    theindependenteye
    Supporting Member

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Well, on the 21st, early morning I have to go into the hospital briefly for an antibiotic infusion. Then we do a Skype conversation with a friend with whom we're collaborating on a screenplay — hopefully the final rewrite. Then most likely I'll be working all afternoon revising our novel. No plans for the evening yet. So with luck the date will mark the near-completion of two major projects. Let's hear it for the Mayans.

    Cheers--
    Conrad

    ps- Oh, and there'll probably be some article I'll read in the NY Times interviewing people on how they feel about Dec. 21st.
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  11. TopTop #6
    Roland Jacopetti's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Hi, Barry. Being that tonight is the last Tuesday evening before the 21st, the theme of my radio show on KRCB (Something Completely Different, Tuesdays 8-10P) is "The End of the World." It won't be entirely cheerful (Armageddon is inevitably about death, as well as other things) but there'll be a sad smile or two ("The End of the World" by Laurie Anderson, "It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine) by R.E.M.) Should the World continue on after the 21st (as it did after New Year's Eve, 1000 A.D., which lots of people thought was the final act), the following Tuesday will be Christmas Day when, hopefully, you'll all listen to the "Farewell, Christmas; Hello, Winter" segment of Something Completely Different.

    Do I think the world will really end on the 21st? I've never thought I'd be lucky enough to witness the end, but one of the innumerable end-time prophets has got to be right.
    Happy Christmas and a Joyous Apocalypse to all!

    Roland Jacopetti
    Last edited by Barry; 12-18-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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  13. TopTop #7
    Conly's Avatar
    Conly
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    So the End Of The World is coming.


    And you want to give up All your worldly possessions to appease or as a sacrifice to your god/dess or personal deity?
    Well... I'm accepting donations of:
    Cash, Stocks, Bonds, Precious Metals, Gem Stones, Land ...
    Even Catalytic Converters (Platinum Core intact)!!!


    I'm a spiritually minded carpenter (well a Wood-Turner really)
    and I'll use these things toward easing my own eventual
    End of Existence!!!


    Contact me through this web site.
    Time is Running Out!!!


    Sorry, I just don't have the space to store Planes, Boats, motorized vehicles or bric-a-brac for even a few moments.
    Sorry, No returns or refunds should the world not collapse in on it self.


    May your God , Goddess or Personal Deity Bless You.
    Last edited by Barry; 12-18-2012 at 05:14 PM.
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  15. TopTop #8
    treasure
    Guest

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    I will honor December 21, 2012 by calling my nephew Michael and wishing him a very happy 59th birthday.

    About 5 months ago, he told me of his plan to "celebrate" his 59th with an end of the world gathering, and was pondering the menu. What does one eat when the end of the world is upon us? A little joke, perhaps, but beneath it, I got the impression that he truly saw no hope of survival beyond his birthday.

    Not much of a stretch for him, really. He began grumbling about his birth date long ago, when he learned that the Solstice brings with it the longest night of the year. How depressing! How bleak, to feel responsible for plunging the world into darkness year, after year, after year.

    As for THIS year, I assured my nephew that there are other, more positive, views of December 21, 2012, and urged him to search them out on the Internet. I don't know if he did that or not. In any case, I will call this kind, delightful, sensitive human being on his birthday, auspicious or not.

    Tara
    Last edited by Barry; 12-18-2012 at 05:14 PM.
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  17. TopTop #9
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Something WILL happen, as it does everyday. We can't predict the things that happen on a daily basis that are out of our control. Consider what happened to those children in Connecticut; that was the end of the world for them that no one could have predicted or prevented.

    The energy of many people focused on one thing can create something happening, as we have witnessed before. It will be the end of the world for many, just as this happens every day.

    If a world wide catastrophe occurs, my belief is that it could bring about a new level of awareness, but I'm not counting on it. Just wishful thinking......

    From where we are at this moment in time, I don't know how any of us can breathe a "sigh of relief", even those who are fortunate enough to benefit financially. Money and things are so fleeting, as many of us are aware of, but that shouldn't stop us from trying to create financial prosperity from whatever we can. As they say, "Find a need, and Fill it", as long as it's congruent with who we are at this moment in time.

    What is considered "false" to some is believed as "real" to others. Life is all a matter of perspective from my point of view. Like the story of the blind men describing the elephant....which most of us are familiar with.


    Quote BobHeisler wrote: View Post
    I think the Mayans just ran out of time when they were putting together their calendar. I believe NOTHING will happen on December 21st. It's just like the harmonic convergence that was talked up in the media in the 90s. It was supposed to usher in a new era of understanding, peace and cooperation. Yeah, that lasted about 20 minutes. The world can wake up on December 22nd and breathe a collective sigh of relief that the end of the world was another fantasy that triggered History Channel documentaries, a few books and some income for people who looked to capitalize on the false phenomenon.
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  19. TopTop #10
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    I really think the Mayans, had their civilization not just evaporated in about 1300 AD and they were still around as an intellectual force, would be highly amused. Surely by now they would have just extended their calendar into the finite future, just as they did when they devised their impressive calendar in 700 AD. Don't you think all wise beings recognize the infinite nature of the past and the future?
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  21. TopTop #11
    handy's Avatar
    handy
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    I expect to wake up and carry on on Saturday morning, but I thought this weather forecast was humorous.

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  23. TopTop #12

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Quote Bird Watcher wrote: View Post
    Really, Barry? Is this a red herring? Haven't you heard the recent news stories interviewing the anthropologists? That Mayan calendar date was in no way intended to signal the end of the world.

    My feeling is we have to be ready to wake up each and every morning to greet a new day. Don't burn any bridges, people! Embrace the future -- there's no easy way out!

    (But if folks need a reason to change the world for the better, I'm all for it.)

    Pam
    My theory on why the calendar ends is because someone finally found a way to time travel, so all bets are off on prophesies when the timeline can be altered. You might think this is silly; but why would the Chinese put out a press release, as they did about a year ago, stating time travel is not possible; how could you prove that?

    Anyway, IMO, the best way to live each day - is as if it were your last. How does the way you use your time and resources affect the world, your community, your family and friends?

    I spent yesterday, as I will also spend today, actively working to support social and environmental justice by speaking truth to power, as well as, taking steps heal myself.

    I welcome your support on all levels.
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  25. TopTop #13
    treasure
    Guest

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    HAH! I ADORE the weather forecast. Thank you for bringing it to us.
    Tara

    Quote handy wrote: View Post
    I expect to wake up and carry on on Saturday morning, but I thought this weather forecast was humorous.

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  27. TopTop #14
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    How am I feeling about Dec 21st, 2012? Mostly frustrated, disgusted and sad that so many people have no problem swallowing the most ludicrous, unfounded claims imaginable. My feelings are essentially the same now as they were over 5 years ago, when I started this thread on Wacco:
    http://www.waccobb.net/forums/showth...The-Discussion

    I'll be brief now; anyone who wants to see a more fleshed-out discussion is encouraged to go back and read that thread. Therein, I tried to get somebody, anybody, to make a prediction about what amazing thing they thought would happen in 2012 that was clear and specific enough that afterwords everyone could agree on whether it actually happened or not, and unusual enough that it could be reasonably connected to the alleged Mayan prophecy rather than just being the usual ups and downs of life. In other words, a falsifiable hypothesis. What I received, of course, was nothing but evasion.

    We saw the same thing with the Harmonic Convergence: claims so vague that, after the "event" came and went with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENING, the proponents insisted that something had happened anyway! They describe this momentous event in fluffy, vague woowoo terms like a "vibrational" change (without, of course, being specific about what it is that's vibrating, how the change is measured, and why in the world we'd think it was connected to the alleged event).

    My prediction about the 2012 hoopla? Again, nothing will happen other than the usual ups and downs of life which, on any given day, includes numerous ends-of-the-world (for anyone and anything that dies) and natural disasters of various sizes.The New Age hucksters who ripped everyone off with their workshops, books, movies, etc. will keep the money, and with few exceptions, none of the believers will admit, even to themselves, that they were wrong--thus, they will not even be able to benefit from the ripoff by learning to think better and be less gullible. The closed-mindedness of the average New Ager is second to none.

    So I'm steeling myself for the inevitable orgy of back-pedaling and pathetic bogus claims about the "subtle" and "energetic" changes that happened. Yecchhh!!

    In the aforementioned thread, I proposed a bet, open to all takers. It's not too late to take me up on it, bliss-ninnies! Here it is again: "Make one or more predictions about what will happen on December 21st, 2012--predictions that are specific enough so that the events of that day will clearly confirm or disconfirm them, significant enough to be worth all your hype, and unusual enough that we can't expect them to happen in the usual course of events. Bet me whatever amount of money you want to bet on it. If you win, I pay up and publicly apologize for doubting your wisdom. If I win, you pay up and promise to take a course in basic critical thinking, which I will teach for free. Fair enough? C'mon, don't be shy, step right up!"

    Folks, we are not gonna have a better world without better thinking. Believing unfounded claptrap on the basis of transparently faulty logic and crappy evidence is not the way to an enlightened, peaceful, happy planet, and neither is dishonestly telling ourselves that we were right after it's become clear our predictions were wrong. If the majority of the human race continues to respond to life's increasing stresses by retreating into superstition, we're doomed.
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  29. TopTop #15
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Hey Dixon,

    I've been waiting for your words of wisdom, and you didn't disappoint me. I'm sorry that you're feeling frustrated, disgusted and sad about people's perspectives on this. There are so many things going on in our culture and world to feel that way about, I don't think this is worth your grief.

    You've gotta know from your time on the planet, and your critical thinking, that many people believe in stuff you'd never consider. And many aren't willing to take responsibility for their lives; it's much easier to believe in something outside of themselves, and not just "new agers". Consider the statistics on the percentage of fundamentalists in our culture. I don't remember the figure, but it was an eye opener to me.

    I consider myself a critical thinker, practical, and sound of mind. It's one reason I'm kind of a loner, and have been since early childhood. I can't relate to most people's ways of thinking, or lack thereof.
    But it's o.k. I realize that's not going to change, and at times it's frustrating, but I just have to move on.

    I am heartened when I become aware of the few people who are able to step outside their own pre-occupation with their own needs and desires, to hold out a hand to another.

    Last year when I was looking to get out of the place I was living, and hadn't been able to find anything, you were one of several who offered me shelter, when you barely had room for yourself. I did find a room, and the situation turned out to be just as horrible. I was in tears the first week, and tried to find another place. The landlord said that I was a great roommate, and that he didn't want me to leave....blah, blah, but he couldn't help how he was. He said he'd try to be better. He did try, but I continued to isolate myself in my room, for protection against his emotional onslaught. I stayed 6 months, and in Oct I moved in with a friend and her platonic partner. My friend is great; her partner is a mess. I won't go into detail, but again I'm isolating myself in my room.

    I want to take responsibility for what I've created in my roommate situation. I think because I don't have a healthy minded social network, my options are limited. I also want to live in Rohnert Park, not Sebastopol or Santa Rosa. I have a cat. I have physical limitations, and have difficulty with stairs. I've created these limitations. In addition to that, I realize that my personal values in shared living are not popular. They are my 5 C's: Communication, Cooperation, Contribution, Consideration, and Compassion. I've also come up with my values for a conscious household, which I won't post here.

    I know that this post has gotten way off topic, as I usually do, but I'm wanting to share what inspires me, rather than what disgusts me.

    When I was looking for a new roommate situation, I came across an ad in CL that indicated that a man was offering a "free" room for a woman. Of course, I was suspicious, as most would be. But I emailed him. He said he had an extra room, and owned his business, and really wanted to help someone who was in need. It was hardly believable! He'd had a lot of responses, and was interviewing for a woman who had the greatest need, and who would be compatible in his household. He was looking at women who might have little income. I had social security, so I didn't fit the criteria. But I told him that I appreciated what he was doing.

    Yesterday, a year later, I received an email from him, saying that he'd helped a woman, and now she was on her own, with new skills and a job. He had just brought in another woman. This man represents what I truly value; the willingness to share what we have with others.

    You are one of those people. I've seen your responses to those in need, and I value you. I also value your critical thinking.

    I just hope you don't let the perspectives of others get you down; it's not good for your health! As always, my wish for you is "unexpected blessings".

    Thanks for being here, Dixon!


    Quote Dixon wrote: View Post
    How am I feeling about Dec 21st, 2012? Mostly frustrated, disgusted and sad that so many people have no problem swallowing the most ludicrous, unfounded claims imaginable. My feelings are essentially the same now as they were over 5 years ago, when I started this thread on Wacco:
    http://www.waccobb.net/forums/showth...The-Discussion

    I'll be brief now; anyone who wants to see a more fleshed-out discussion is encouraged to go back and read that thread. Therein, I tried to get somebody, anybody, to make a prediction ....
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  31. TopTop #16
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    "Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It is already tomorrow in Australia."- Charles M. Schulz
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  33. TopTop #17

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    How am I feeling? Excited, now that I've agreed to do a special episode of "Red Shoes Rodeo" on KRCB FM, 8 to 10 p.m. The show has been on temporary hiatus but how I can I resist the opportunity to open the show with . . . can you guess?

    Tune it, turn it up and have fun. You can post requests on Red Shoes Rodeo's facebook page.
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  34. TopTop #18
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Thanks for all your comments regarding December 21st!

    I've got mixed feelings about it. I don't think anything going to happen but I'm open to the possibility that during this time, not just the day, but for years before and after this, that some large scale energy may shift leading to increasing changes in one direction or another. It could be the alignment of solar system with respect to the galaxy or other astrological phenomena (which I generally don't put alot of stock into) or something else.

    I haven't tuned into the 2012 hysteria much, but as far as I know the Maya didn't proscribe any particular meaning to the end of a Baktun. A baktun is 394 years, so the last time that particularl odometer flipped over was 1618. I note the 17th century was a particularly eventful century (are their boring ones?) which included the Scientific Revolution and the General Crisis.

    I did tune into the Harmonic Convergence which talked about the point that we transisted from 468 year long heaven cycle and began a heaven cycle. Clearly we haven't entered heaven just yet, but I did note that lots of things changed around that time including end of apartheid and the Cold War.

    So maybe there's something to it and maybe not. If there is any effect, I'd expect it to be subtle, but profound and impossible to draw a direct correlation. None the less, I'll take the opportunity to feel hopeful about it. Why not?

    And I'll be glad when the hysteria, especially the profitable new-agey kind, subsides.

    What's less subtle, is that another attribute of the date, which presumably intentionally coincides with turning of the baktun, that being the solstice. After all, it is just a change in the alignment of heavenly bodies, and that does have a big effect!

    I also have mixed feelings because Dec 21st is my Birthday! Being a Winter Solstice baby has always carried it's challenges and gifts and this year that goes double! Having just celebrated our wedding, I'm content allow the day to be overshadowed by the End of World. OTOH, I'm looking forward to being refreshed and inspired by the occasion of the returning of the light, beginning another Baktun, and beginning my next personal trip around the sun!
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  36. TopTop #19
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Quote Dixon wrote: View Post
    The closed-mindedness of the average New Ager is second to none.
    I challenge that.. at least it's a falsifiable premise, and I think there's plenty of conflicting evidence. The bar for close-mindedness is set pretty damn high these days.
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  38. TopTop #20
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Quote Shandi wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry that you're feeling frustrated, disgusted and sad about people's perspectives on this.

    Thanks, Sandy. Barry asked us how we're feeling about this thing, so I shared my feelings. I think it's good to be in touch with our feelings and to express them in some harmless way.

    There are so many things going on in our culture and world to feel that way about, I don't think this is worth your grief.

    The specific issue of the Mayan prophecies and similar silly beliefs is not, in and of itself, very important. What bothers me is the underlying issue: people retreating into superstition and delusion instead of meeting our numerous serious challenges rationally. THAT's the real issue for me. If the world continues to go further and further down the tubes because of peoples' ignorance and denial, we're all screwed together.

    You've gotta know from your time on the planet, and your critical thinking, that many people believe in stuff you'd never consider.
    It's not a matter of me not considering stuff. I'm willing to consider anything open-mindedly. When this issue was broached 5+ years ago here, I did a web-search and looked at several sites representing the various (contradictory) positions of "believers" on this issue. Then I practically begged the Wacco community to give me something specific enough to work with, and all I got was the usual vague, meaningless sugar-fluff. So don't characterize me as not considering this issue; I've looked hard and found nothing but bullshit.

    In fairness, some of the websites made specific, testable claims, such as the idea that the Earth's magnetic poles would suddenly shift, or that we'd be hit by an asteroid (that is, a catastrophically large one), or that all our minds would be joined into a single consciousness. And if any of those things happen, I'll be the first to acknowledge it! But when they turn out to be wrong, do you imagine that the folks who sold movies, books and workshop tickets will be refunding the suckers' money? In any case, no one here on Wacco, including those making money from the claim(s), has been willing to publicly associate themselves with verifiable claims like the ones I just mentioned; they just spout the vague, unverifiable crapola. Or am I wrong? Would anyone out there like to assert a verifiable claim such as those I mention above?

    Consider the statistics on the percentage of fundamentalists in our culture. I don't remember the figure, but it was an eye opener to me.
    Oh yeah, I share your concern about that! I used to be a fundie myself. My mom still is one. There are lots of them, and rigid, authoritarian systems such as fundamentalism of all stripes tend to attract more adherents as life feels more and more insecure. It's scary!

    I know that this post has gotten way off topic, as I usually do...
    I forgive you for that, Sandy, since you're one of my favorite people.


    ...but I'm wanting to share what inspires me, rather than what disgusts me.
    I believe in sharing both. It's about being well-rounded and authentic.

    I've seen your responses to those in need, and I value you. I also value your critical thinking.
    Thank you for your kindness. I love you.

    I just hope you don't let the perspectives of others get you down; it's not good for your health!
    I can't help it!


    Thanks for being here, Dixon!
    Likewise!
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  40. TopTop #21
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    I challenge that.. at least it's a falsifiable premise, and I think there's plenty of conflicting evidence. The bar for close-mindedness is set pretty damn high these days.
    LOL! Okay, fair enough, Podster--there may be some groups, such as cult members, who are even more closed-minded than the average New Ager. I concede your point, as least as a good possibility. But then, I doubt that anyone's done the necessary research to quantify, as well as possible, the open-mindedness of New Agers versus other groups. The closest thing I've heard of is research that indicates that liberals are a bit more open-minded than conservatives--though both groups are way more closed-minded than they think. Do you know of any research that looks at New Agers in this regard?

    And in any case, I ask you this: after the "end of the world", or whatever, comes to pass and people's expectations didn't come true, how many of them do you think will be saying "Gee, I was wrong. I guess I'd better see about improving my critical thinking skills!"? How many people have you heard say that about Velikovskyism, pyramid power, crystal power, Satanic ritual abuse, the Harmonic Convergence, millennialistic predictions, or other woowoo fads of the past? Let's see how many of our fellow Waccobites post on Wacco "Gee, I was wrong!"
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  41. Gratitude expressed by 3 members:

  42. TopTop #22
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    You're right, and you answered the question directly, with a statement of feelings, which is appreciated.

    I wonder if you have any idea how much I value the way you think and express those thoughts and feelings. I may not always agree with you, (but mostly I do!) but you remain a treasure to me, even though we haven't spent much time together.

    If I ever win the lottery, (which is kinda unlikely since I don't play that often), I'd want to surprise you with a huge gift of cash.

    Keep blessing Wacco with your thoughts and feelings; I know I'm not alone in my appreciation.

    Love you!


    Quote Dixon wrote: View Post
    Thanks, Sandy. Barry asked us how we're feeling about this thing, so I shared my feelings. I think it's good to be in touch with our feelings and to express them in some harmless way.


    The specific issue of the Mayan prophecies and similar silly beliefs is not, in and of itself, very important. What bothers me is the underlying issue: people retreating into superstition and delusion instead of meeting our numerous serious challenges rationally. THAT's the real issue for me. If the world continues to go further and further down the tubes because of peoples' ignorance and denial, we're all screwed together.


    It's not a matter of me not considering stuff. I'm willing to consider anything open-mindedly. When this issue was broached 5+ years ago here, I did a web-search and looked at several sites representing the various (contradictory) positions of "believers" on this issue. Then I practically begged the Wacco community to give me something specific enough to work with, and all I got was the usual vague, meaningless sugar-fluff. So don't characterize me as not considering this issue; I've looked hard and found nothing but bullshit.

    In fairness, some of the websites made specific, testable claims, such as the idea that the Earth's magnetic poles would suddenly shift, or that we'd be hit by an asteroid (that is, a catastrophically large one), or that all our minds would be joined into a single consciousness. And if any of those things happen, I'll be the first to acknowledge it! But when they turn out to be wrong, do you imagine that the folks who sold movies, books and workshop tickets will be refunding the suckers' money? In any case, no one here on Wacco, including those making money from the claim(s), has been willing to publicly associate themselves with verifiable claims like the ones I just mentioned; they just spout the vague, unverifiable crapola. Or am I wrong? Would anyone out there like to assert a verifiable claim such as those I mention above?


    Oh yeah, I share your concern about that! I used to be a fundie myself. My mom still is one. There are lots of them, and rigid, authoritarian systems such as fundamentalism of all stripes tend to attract more adherents as life feels more and more insecure. It's scary!


    I forgive you for that, Sandy, since you're one of my favorite people. [/B]


    I believe in sharing both. It's about being well-rounded and authentic.


    Thank you for your kindness. I love you.


    I can't help it!


    [B]
    Likewise!
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  43. Gratitude expressed by 3 members:

  44. TopTop #23
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Quote Dixon wrote: View Post
    Folks, we are not gonna have a better world without better thinking. Believing unfounded claptrap on the basis of transparently faulty logic and crappy evidence is not the way to an enlightened, peaceful, happy planet, and neither is dishonestly telling ourselves that we were right after it's become clear our predictions were wrong. If the majority of the human race continues to respond to life's increasing stresses by retreating into superstition, we're doomed.
    Although I support your crusade, if you could characterize it as such, I think there's grounds for optimism. Judging from cultural evolution through time, there really doesn't seem to be a need for clear-thinking people for there to be improvements.



    Red-state style conservatives can be caricatured as believing in a homogenous and harmonious past that never existed. There may be an equivalent trap for progressive thinkers if they give too much credit to past ages of enlightenment that also never existed. Not to say there haven't been periods where tremendous intellectual and cultural strides were made, but they rippled outward in a sea of ignorance - a very similar sea to that which exists today. There are more chunks of insightful contributions being plunked into those murky depths than ever before. It would be great to remove the obstacles and have a cleaner path to a better life for everyone, but it's unrealistic because of the nature of people. All the ills that plague mankind because of what people are willing to do to each other still occur, because you can't purge the population of people with such motivations. Things have improved despite that - and you can empirically make the case that overall the lives of people are far better than they have ever been in the past. Life used to be ugly, brutal and short for many if not most. The relative size of "many" has gone way down. If we ever do get majority of clear-thinking people, it'll be even better - but at least we're not doomed if it never happens.
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  45. Gratitude expressed by 3 members:

  46. TopTop #24
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Sandy, your kind words make me blush.

    Quote Shandi wrote: View Post
    If I ever win the lottery, (which is kinda unlikely since I don't play that often), I'd want to surprise you with a huge gift of cash.

    I'm rooting for you to win the lottery!

    But seriously, there are a million other charities more deserving than me!

    Keep blessing Wacco with your thoughts and feelings; I know I'm not alone in my appreciation.
    Again, thanks! Since, as an outspoken, and occasionally sharp-tongued, person, I catch lots of flak, it's always nice to hear some appreciation. Stay tuned; one of these days, the next installment of my column will show up on Wacco (if Barry isn't so disgusted with the long delay since the last one that he's given up on me).
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  47. Gratitude expressed by 3 members:

  48. TopTop #25
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    Red-state style conservatives can be caricatured as believing in a homogenous and harmonious past that never existed. There may be an equivalent trap for progressive thinkers if they give too much credit to past ages of enlightenment that also never existed.
    You don't think I'm positing such a "Golden Age", do you?

    Not to say there haven't been periods where tremendous intellectual and cultural strides were made, but they rippled outward in a sea of ignorance - a very similar sea to that which exists today.
    Yes, as always.

    There are more chunks of insightful contributions being plunked into those murky depths than ever before.
    Yes, partly because there are more people than ever, and partly because they have more access to media through which to spread their ideas--notably the Internet. But, for the same reasons, there are more "murky depths" for those good ideas to be swallowed up in.

    It would be great to remove the obstacles and have a cleaner path to a better life for everyone, but it's unrealistic because of the nature of people.
    Let's not slip into the either/or fallacy, Podmeister. It is realistic to assume that we may indeed be able to "remove the obstacles and have a cleaner path to a better life" to some degree, though far from completely. Or should we just give up?

    All the ills that plague mankind because of what people are willing to do to each other still occur, because you can't purge the population of people with such motivations.
    That's right--human nature.

    Things have improved despite that - and you can empirically make the case that overall the lives of people are far better than they have ever been in the past. Life used to be ugly, brutal and short for many if not most. The relative size of "many" has gone way down.
    Yup.

    If we ever do get majority of clear-thinking people, it'll be even better - but at least we're not doomed if it never happens.
    Well, of course, we are doomed eventually; presumably no species lasts forever, especially since no habitable universe lasts forever. My point about our being doomed sooner than later refers to a number of unprecedented global threats to planetary habitability (for humans, at least) which may indeed wipe us out substantially if not totally in the relatively near term unless larger numbers of us wise up enough to make bigger changes in our ways of living. Absent such changes, our best hope for survival of some sizable remnant of our sorry species lies in the activation of unpleasant natural homeostatic mechanisms such as famine, disease, pestilence and war, which have yet to fully take over. But 12/21/12 isn't over yet...
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  49. Gratitude expressed by:

  50. TopTop #26
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Name:  Mayan-apocalypse-Men-in-t-010-1.jpg
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    End-of-the-World-Watch, dateline 12/21/12:
    Men in tin foil appeared on the streets of the French village of Bugarach. Photograph: Eric Cabanis/AFP/Getty Images

    Local authorities had pleaded with New Age fanatics, sightseers and the media not to converge on the tiny village of Bugarach, one of the few places on Earth believed to be safe from the impending destruction. Some 150 officers were guarding a mountain which legend has it will open up when the apocalypse arrives. The story goes that alien spaceships will emerge from the peak to transport humans to safety.
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  51. Gratitude expressed by 3 members:

  52. TopTop #27
    nicofrog's Avatar
    nicofrog
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Do a search on "Mayan Culture" they are still quite present alive and functioning!


    Quote jbox wrote: View Post
    I really think the Mayans, had their civilization not just evaporated in about 1300 AD and they were still around as an intellectual force, would be highly amused. Surely by now they would have just extended their calendar into the finite future, just as they did when they devised their impressive calendar in 700 AD. Don't you think all wise beings recognize the infinite nature of the past and the future?
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  53. Gratitude expressed by:

  54. TopTop #28
    Roland Jacopetti's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    There was an earthquake last night! Two-point-something, I understand, with an epicenter two kilometers south of Larkfield, right on our doorstep. A very short jolt. See? It's beginning already!

    Roland
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  55. Gratitude expressed by 4 members:

  56. TopTop #29
    nicofrog's Avatar
    nicofrog
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    Re spelling and updating....



    Its a beautiful(and rainy) day!
    SO here's MY situation that relates to the end of the known universe,as well as the slugs and snails that are beginning to thrive getting ready for my spring planting attempts!
    and the frogs are still calling us...

    they are saying "Pay attention" just "Play attention"

    as a follower of their call for so many years now,I have become a minor environmental activist.. I noticed
    that the planet was in trouble(as far as human habitation and food production is concerned) and I vowed to do something about it. Topsoil deletion Methane from dumps plastic in oceans and rivers Nuclear proliferation GMOand other corporate monstrosities...Environmental education with children Natural Building!!

    SO is today(12 21 12) was the end of the earth as we know it ? YES of course it is.. .(HUH) the HELL you say

    Well ,you see recently I GAVE UP on saving the world (for grandchildren) this IS a very PAINFUL
    letting GO . and It's not about a beautiful stone they found in Mexico, or Nostradamus or any asstrological
    prediction ...
    Its about a small insignificant announcement made by the WORLD COUNCIL of OCEANOGRAPHERS about a month ago. They said something so devastating ,and yet immense in its implications that it stunned me to the core
    It SHOULD have been four inch headlines on every newspaper(If we still had those) on earth.

    here it is WORLD OCEANS TO BE "DEAD" IN 15 YEARS the oceans are the lungs of the planet or the kidney or the heart whatever...

    they didn't say Maybe,,they didn't say "If we don't hurry up and do this or that" they just said current CO2 levels are such that it causes and over all acidifying condition that plankton ,and crustacean life cannot handle .we need plankton,and crustaceans need their shells .

    These were not a bunch of hippies looking at the sky sayin' "Chemtrailsdude"!.

    Scripps Institution of Oceanography
    is not a gathering of flakes

    Then I went (since I was already feeling doomsdayish) pardon my lack of luster here to the Fukushima websites once again (what the hell it was scary before,but maybe they have thought of some big plan to fix that shit??)

    No anything BUT are you KIDDING go look it up and find me the hopeful link cause I need it.
    does anybody CARE what would transpire if the tower at reactor four finishes collapsing?? does anybody understand the impact that would have on all of life? this is not conjecture It is scientific fact that is hard to look at.

    as I see it we are ALL OSTRICHES and the world ended years ago when we made some bad choices.

    oh sure the ball of dirt and water will find balance and life and growth will win out but "a little kid lying in the deep grass on a blue sky sunny day "without a care in the world" hmmm we may have lost that..shit

    Happy frogs!! awesome RAIN groovin snails and slugs and worms galore
    may the Sonoma county box turtle be protected from world news and just live life one pond at a time!
    I've been feeling less motivated and more "whatever" lately. My TWO FAVORITE Environmental Education centers
    just DIED on the vine ,right here in Sebastopol Sonoma County California the MOST environmentally active community on the entire planet . what does THAT say ? Am I the only one who seems to think this is ominous and not a good sign???
    Sigh....Nico

    I should clarify that besides finally coming to permaculture design,I have(due to My introduction to Global warming and climate change by Buckminster Fuller(first person to "do the math"and Adam Trombly((a Govt.Meteorologist who at the time was the one who discovered"Ozone Depletion"and was summarily fired by the govt.for being a crackpot they immediately hired someone else to say "it was just the normal"ozone hole")) BEEN COMPOSTING all my food,and most of any other personal waste..
    as well as as much food as I could possibly bring home from parties ,as well as glean from markets and restaurants I have created many yards of beautiful topsoil) By the way this energy was not parlayed into business and has been a labor of love requiring hundreds of hours of work.
    ALL of my work and art has been somehow environmentally related for 45 years or more.

    and now this I am not stoked and feel isolated which seems strange in a town full of like minded people.

    SO I GO TO MY ALTAR after 45 years of work on saving planet etc. and ask if I should give up?

    NO
    :)

    It's not about oxygen levels or co2 or oppression or evil corporate greed or unfair taxes OR even childrens quality of life

    its about LOVE
    I love to work on environmental issues some of the ponds I have built have supported dozens of generations of frogs

    worked for them! Kids enjoyed them! Critters who ate them enjoyed them as well! Life goes on or not I cannot help it if a lot of people are in denial and want to
    pork around wasting things and outgassing their outsourced resources and support the China fetish and the cheaters labor addiction etc etc pretend education TV guns ,,,,whatever.....go.Drive that "safe car" 80 in the fast lane 10 ft from the car in front of you
    (I'd want a safe car too!)
    Let's get out of here!! (die) happy in Love
    Last edited by nicofrog; 12-23-2012 at 11:44 PM. Reason: needed it
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  57. Gratitude expressed by 4 members:

  58. TopTop #30
    nicofrog's Avatar
    nicofrog
     

    Re: How are you feeling about Dec 21st, 2012?

    AWESOME I knew the earth was moving!


    Quote Roland Jacopetti wrote: View Post
    There was an earthquake last night! Two-point-something, I understand, with an epicenter two kilometers south of Larkfield, right on our doorstep. A very short jolt. See? It's beginning already!

    Roland
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