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  1. TopTop #1
    neil's Avatar
    neil
    Supporting member

    Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    This Sunday from 5-7 pm there is a fundraising event for Efren Carrillo at 5626 Vine Hill Road, Sebastopol.

    Hey, I thought, that's my neck of the woods! So I googled the address...whoa! Fancy place!

    Most of us never get to see the inside of such a place, let alone live there. So if you have the requested 50 buck$ to attend, or if you don't mind seeming to be too poor but you want to go anyway, you can make your way there and maybe rub shoulders, eat, drink, pretend..... or maybe they won't even let you in.

    You can view this 61 acre $14 million property at this high-end real estate website, listed as "Vine Hill Ranch" about half way down the page. I recommend taking the virtual tour!

    https://www.spanekre.com/html/network/intro.html

    I see these images and I think about the immigrant farm workers and other laborers who create such wealth. I think about what their life is like and choke on the contrast.

    What is Efren telling us by saddling up to such wealth? Should we go and ask him Sunday? Maybe pocket some yummy goodies and distribute them to their rightful owners in the poor Latino neighborhoods of Santa Rosa? Hmmm....

    Neil
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  3. TopTop #2
    rebekahlgraham
    Guest

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    I took it as a serious invitation when I was invited...Without more details, I would be making assumptions..What I do know is Efren Carillo is attending functions all over the county and is in touch and personal with many people...which I guess could include wealthy people who also appreciate these qualities..I was impressed when I first met him before last election..He is compassionate , involved and I believe genuine and sincere..I have been impressed with his dedication and passion once he was elected..Do we know anything about the hosts of this fundraiser..? maybe we should go and find out...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by neil: View Post
    This Sunday from 5-7 pm there is a fundraising event for Efren Carrillo at 5626 Vine Hill Road, Sebastopol.

    Hey, I thought, that's my neck of the woods! So I googled the address...whoa! Fancy place!

    Most of us never get to see the inside of such a place, let alone live there. So if you have the requested 50 buck$ to attend, or if you don't mind seeming to be too poor but you want to go anyway, you can make your way there and maybe rub shoulders, eat, drink, pretend..... or maybe they won't even let you in.

    You can view this 61 acre $14 million property at this high-end real estate website, listed as "Vine Hill Ranch" about half way down the page. I recommend taking the virtual tour!

    https://www.spanekre.com/html/network/intro.html

    I see these images and I think about the immigrant farm workers and other laborers who create such wealth. I think about what their life is like and choke on the contrast.

    What is Efren telling us by saddling up to such wealth? Should we go and ask him Sunday? Maybe pocket some yummy goodies and distribute them to their rightful owners in the poor Latino neighborhoods of Santa Rosa? Hmmm....

    Neil
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  5. TopTop #3
    Jim Wilson's Avatar
    Jim Wilson
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Good Morning:

    I'd like to second the previous poster. I think he is attending fundraising events all over the county. I can't see anything wrong with this one as it is just one of many. It would be one thing if Carillo had isolated himself and only communicated with the 1% (though I have to say that $50 for attending a fundraising does not rise to the level that the 1% dwell in). But that is not my observation. I have been impressed with Carillo's dedication, his concern for the disadvantaged, his accessibility, and just plain hard work. I voted for him in the last election and plan to do so this time as well.


    Best wishes
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  7. TopTop #4
    neil's Avatar
    neil
    Supporting member

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Hi Rebeka,

    I think you are right--it is a serious invitation from Efren Carrillo, to a serious campaign event. I'm not assuming that the hosts of the fundraiser are bad people just because they live where they do or have what they have, or that Carrillo is a bad person for doing a campaign thing at their house. My concern is with the disparity of wealth, which is increasing, and with the disproportionate political influence and control that comes with having so much wealth.

    I do not think it is a law of nature that a few people are rich and live "the beautiful life," while many more have to work hard to create the wealth yet are poor and struggle to get by. It is a question of social organization and policy. If there were fairness--anything approaching fairness--in the laws governing economic relations (property, investment, business, commerce, taxation), there wouldn't be such wealth disparities or the corresponding imbalance in political influence.

    For me the question is not "is Carrillo a nice guy?" Maybe he is extremely personable. Fine. I'm much more concerned about whose interests he serves. Whatever the personal qualities and attributes of the Vicini family hosting the event, for me it is an obscenity that some live in luxury while others sleep on cardboard or under tarps along the tracks. No amount of personal charm on Efren's part overcomes the fact that the people who slave under the hot sun in the chemical-laden vinyards to grow the grapes cannot afford to buy and drink the wine. Nor can they afford to attend Carrillo's event Sunday, which is located in the middle of one of the larger vinyards in the area.

    Neil


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rebekahlgraham: View Post
    I took it as a serious invitation when I was invited...Without more details, I would be making assumptions..What I do know is Efren Carillo is attending functions all over the county and is in touch and personal with many people...which I guess could include wealthy people who also appreciate these qualities..I was impressed when I first met him before last election..He is compassionate , involved and I believe genuine and sincere..I have been impressed with his dedication and passion once he was elected..Do we know anything about the hosts of this fundraiser..? maybe we should go and find out...
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  9. TopTop #5

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Last year his fundraiser was held at Lynmar Winery. It'd be interesting to see the guest list. Recently I recieved aa Carillo mailer stating his top priority to be "Sonoma County roads". Wonder if Dutro has the contract yet.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-17-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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  11. TopTop #6
    mamaj's Avatar
    mamaj
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    How about the predatory lending practice which is still being commited by a local lender from Graton,Martin Gavriloff. He sold our farm and home illegally in Freestone.I spoke about it at one of the town hall meetings in Sebastopol before the last election. Effren told me he would contact me and help me resolve our devastating experience.I never heard from him again. We are not the only victims of this predatory lenders' scams,yet Effren allows it to happen.Apparently he used to be a loan broker.Justice needs to be served for us,my children were to inherit this property.Not to forget the wonderful childrens' day camp which was to open there.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-17-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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  13. TopTop #7
    Damien
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    The fund raiser this Sunday is a fund raiser for the Preservation ranch. Good bye trees. The 1% wins again.
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  15. TopTop #8
    Beverly Schenck's Avatar
    Beverly Schenck
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    If you want four more years of a corrupt Supervisor, than vote for Carrillo. If you have a business and want to distroy the environment, than vote for Carrillo. If you have money to waste, then vote for Carrillo. If you voted for Carrillo, than you got what you have paid for, a bad politician.
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  17. TopTop #9
    advocarole
    Guest

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by eeeeeeow: View Post
    Last year his fundraiser was held at Lynmar Winery. It'd be interesting to see the guest list. Recently I recieved aa Carillo mailer stating his top priority to be "Sonoma County roads". Wonder if Dutro has the contract yet.
    Is that why Mirabel Road is now being fixed one week before elections or is it because Ernie is running?
    Carole Domeikis, a 30 year forestville home owner.
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  19. TopTop #10
    mamaj's Avatar
    mamaj
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    I went to check our mail box the other day ,and it was filled up with Efren Carrillos' trash ads to vote for him,honestly I wouldn't vote for him if you paid me! And all the west county roads are in poor condition still .If Efren Carrillo is responsible for filling in ANY pot holes theyr'e only on the roads he travels on.......which is not a regular road the general public travels. I think everyone who has had damage done to their cars and trucks due to all the poorly maintained roads should send Efren their repair bills,how about filing small claims actions as well.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by advocarole: View Post
    Is that why Mirabel Road is now being fixed one week before elections or is it because Ernie is running?
    Carole Domeikis, a 30 year forestville home owner.
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  21. TopTop #11
    Beverly Schenck's Avatar
    Beverly Schenck
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    RETURN TO SENDER, SEND cARRILLO'S TRASH BACK.
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  23. TopTop #12
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    I'd to see a little more respect shown to our current county supervisor, even if you disagree with some of his decisions. On the other hand you are welcome to enumerate specific reasons why you think someone else would be better.

    I'm going to vote for Ernie, but I think Efren's done a decent job. The biggest reason that I'm not going to vote for him is his Dutra vote. He said it was principled, from an holistic environmental point of view (vs. trucking in the asphalt). Other's, including me, suspect some financial support may have played role in swaying his vote. In either case, this puts some distance between his position and that of the progressive community. I also note that there have been many times he voted consistent with our values.

    Given how progressive and environmentally conscious our district is, we deserve to be represented by someone who is as passionate about protecting our environment as we are. I think Ernie fits that bill. OTOH, Efren would be a big upgrade as compared to some other of the county Supes.


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Beverly Schenck: View Post
    RETURN TO SENDER, SEND cARRILLO'S TRASH BACK.
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  25. TopTop #13
    Imagery's Avatar
    Imagery
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    I'd to see a little more respect shown to our current county supervisor, even if you disagree with some of his decisions. On the other hand you are welcome to enumerate specific reasons why you think someone else would be better.
    How much respect should be given to someone who promises to listen to the West County residents, work hard for them, then goes and does nothing of the sort?

    Can you name one time where big business didn't get the vote from Carrillo, and where the environmental concerns won out over big business? I won't hold my breath waiting.
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  27. TopTop #14
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Imagery: View Post
    Can you name one time where big business didn't get the vote from Carrillo, and where the environmental concerns won out over big business? I won't hold my breath waiting.
    Here's 3 for you:
    - his strong support for a public power agency - the kind that PG&E has tried to prevent
    - his strong support for a moratorium on smart meters - again in opposition to PG&E
    - his opposition to the Roblar Road quarry
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  29. TopTop #15
    Damien
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Three for who?

    Three things that have no relevance to environmental issues in the fifth district for the next four years. Ask your Mr. Carrillo about "The Preservation Ranch",The Best Family Winery, and the Hobbs-Jenkel travesty.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    Here's 3 for you:
    - his strong support for a public power agency - the kind that PG&E has tried to prevent
    - his strong support for a moratorium on smart meters - again in opposition to PG&E
    - his opposition to the Roblar Road quarry
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  31. TopTop #16
    maryr45's Avatar
    maryr45
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    I come by once in a while to see what's up and it's always the few miscreants bashing the hardest working Supervisor the Fifth District has ever had, Efren Carrillo.

    Ernie's a blow hard, he's Ratzo Rizzo pounding on the hood of the taxi saying, "HEY, Look at ME!" He dropped the ball his last years in office, burned out and didn't do dodoo.

    Meanwhile Ernie's been a bag man for timber interests and garbage companies selling his services to the highest bidder (provided they wear protection I would assume).

    This is Ernie's last hurrah, I'll be glad to see the 14 commentators here take notice when Efren get's over 50% and it's all over.



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    I'd to see a little more respect shown to our current county supervisor, even if you disagree with some of his decisions. On the other hand you are welcome to enumerate specific reasons why you think someone else would be better.

    I'm going to vote for Ernie, but I think Efren's done a decent job. The biggest reason that I'm not going to vote for him is his Dutra vote. He said it was principled, from an holistic environmental point of view (vs. trucking in the asphalt). Other's, including me, suspect some financial support may have played role in swaying his vote. In either case, this puts some distance between his position and that of the progressive community. I also note that there have been many times he voted consistent with our values.

    Given how progressive and environmentally conscious our district is, we deserve to be represented by someone who is as passionate about protecting our environment as we are. I think Ernie fits that bill. OTOH, Efren would be a big upgrade as compared to some other of the county Supes.
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  32. TopTop #17
    Larysa
    Guest

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Dear Neil,

    Thank you for your post. What I find troublesome is Efren Carrillo's secretiveness on county issues - his website is VOID of any real information. Just his life story. Apparently his claim to fame is having grown up in a handout house and that this made him who he is: Someone who likes taking handouts.

    At the supervisor forums, he refused to answer direct questions. Very evasive. He'd make a great poker player. Reminds me of: "If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything."

    It's a no brainer to vote for Ernie Carpenter - he stands by his word and lives by his principles amongst us Hobbits out here in West County w/ our wells, septic tanks, no sidewalks.....

    Take good care, Larysa
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  34. TopTop #18
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    The biggest controversial environmental vote was about the Dutra asphalt plant, which he supported and that's the prime reason I can't support him.

    His refusal to take a stand on Preservation ranch, which is quite suspicious, and is another reason I can't support him

    I didn't have a problem with the Best Family Winery, so I didn't have a problem for his support of it. I can understand the NIMBY concerns of the neighbors.

    I would also liked to have seen him come out against Hobbs early on, instead of way late. I believe that debacle was nominally legal, though there should be stronger laws to prevent such rapes of both the land and people. Preventing forest conversion is one of Ernie's key issues and one of the reasons I support him.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Damien: View Post
    Three for who?

    Three things that have no relevance to environmental issues in the fifth district for the next four years. Ask your Mr. Carrillo about "The Preservation Ranch",The Best Family Winery, and the Hobbs-Jenkel travesty.
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  36. TopTop #19
    peggykarp's Avatar
    peggykarp
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    The message I get from this discussion as well as many others is this: Without publicly funded elections, we will continue to see good people go into politics with the best of intentions only to succumb to the imperatives of raising money to stay in office.

    It's why Doris Haddock in 1999, at the age of 88, walked 3200 miles across the country to advocate for campaign finance reform. She understood that big money in politics is the fundamental evil, the cancer at the heart of the system.

    So my sympathies to Mr. Carrillo, and to Barack Obama, and all the other idealistic people who feel they have to betray their principles to stay in the game. But my support and vote will go to those courageous fighters who truly represent my values—the Ralph Naders and Jill Steins and Norman Solomons of this world.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    Here's 3 for you:
    - his strong support for a public power agency - the kind that PG&E has tried to prevent
    - his strong support for a moratorium on smart meters - again in opposition to PG&E
    - his opposition to the Roblar Road quarry
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  38. TopTop #20
    Beverly Schenck's Avatar
    Beverly Schenck
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    I went before Carrillo and pleaded to save my home from Mesa Distribution extending their days of operation. For four years I have fought the county and the courts because Mesa distribution built a massive 155,000 square foot concrete building within 125 feet of my home. All night long my family is impacted with the sound of rigs traveling along the side of my home.. From Sunday night until Friday evening the sound of night time operations of this company continues to destroy our right to sleep peacefully. While pleading to the supervisors not to extend Mesas' days of operation, Carillo was totally distracted while playing with his ipod and showed no concern or respect for me or my neighors. He is arrogant and will continue to support large business owners over the people that he represents. If I sound disrespectful and harsh at times, it is because I feel our county needs individuals that care for the public at large, Carrillo is NOT THAT PERSON. We need to vote him out of office this year before he can distroy another families home.

    Mesa's attorney's are Cohen, Fitzpatrick, and Kenworthy, the same attorneys that have continued to contribute to Carrillos' campaign for relection.
    How can you make a fair decision when you hands are tied by those who contribute to your campaign? Carrillo is corrupt, and not a friend to the people.
    Last edited by Beverly Schenck; 06-02-2012 at 11:58 AM.
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  40. TopTop #21
    Imagery's Avatar
    Imagery
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    Here's 3 for you:
    - his strong support for a public power agency - the kind that PG&E has tried to prevent
    - his strong support for a moratorium on smart meters - again in opposition to PG&E
    - his opposition to the Roblar Road quarry
    Has PG&E given his campaign any 'contributions' to keep him in office?
    Has any of this come up for legislative review and ruling on these subjects, or is this some 'feel good' politics that don't really matter?
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  42. TopTop #22
    garyahighland
    Guest

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    go ahead and vote for Ralph and when Romney takes office remember you had a choice. You chose to lose.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by peggykarp: View Post
    The message I get from this discussion as well as many others is this: Without publicly funded elections, we will continue to see good people go into politics with the best of intentions only to succumb to the imperatives of raising money to stay in office.

    It's why Doris Haddock in 1999, at the age of 88, walked 3200 miles across the country to advocate for campaign finance reform. She understood that big money in politics is the fundamental evil, the cancer at the heart of the system.

    So my sympathies to Mr. Carrillo, and to Barack Obama, and all the other idealistic people who feel they have to betray their principles to stay in the game. But my support and vote will go to those courageous fighters who truly represent my values—the Ralph Naders and Jill Steins and Norman Solomons of this world.
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  44. TopTop #23
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    I understand Efren has made a few mistakes in his first term and he is paying for them now in this election. Witness Ernie Carpenter's surprise entrance into the campaign. This smacks of opportunism and I bet is motivated by 69 year old Ernie's desire to pump up his pension as much as anything else for a single 4 year term. Since leaving office he has had a few gigs as a paid special interest shill, now he wants to un-retire. I am not impressed.

    From where I sit I have seen a hard working, bright young supervisor. He regularly attends Monte Rio's wastewater committee meetings, dealing with the thankless task of looking into a sewer or alternative solution to a big problem on the lower river. He has helped our little hamlet of Villa Grand acquire and restore our beach with the Open Space district. He is all over the place in west county for all four years, not just at election time. I find him accessible, reasonable, diligent. I feared he would be the supervisor from Roseland but this has not turned out to be the case. Efren has tried hard to be our man on the Board and this is a difficult job walking that political tightrope 24/7. He deserves re-election.
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  46. TopTop #24
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Ernie does seem like a bit of a whore - not that he doesn't appeal to some individuals.

    It seems like he's courting the environmental vote, taking the opposite stance on issues Efren is criticized on, such as Dutra & Best... although his past actions have not always been supportive of environmental concerns.

    He's a bit of a tainted candidate, an opportunist, like may politicians, is he not?

    Can anyone offer any defense of him?



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by maryr45: View Post
    I come by once in a while to see what's up and it's always the few miscreants bashing the hardest working Supervisor the Fifth District has ever had, Efren Carrillo.

    Ernie's a blow hard, he's Ratzo Rizzo pounding on the hood of the taxi saying, "HEY, Look at ME!" He dropped the ball his last years in office, burned out and didn't do dodoo.

    Meanwhile Ernie's been a bag man for timber interests and garbage companies selling his services to the highest bidder (provided they wear protection I would assume).

    This is Ernie's last hurrah, I'll be glad to see the 14 commentators here take notice when Efren get's over 50% and it's all over.
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  48. TopTop #25

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Let's take the Dutro plant, for instance: Millions of tax dollars that were spent on reinvigorating Schollenberger park have been squandered by vote for Dutro to proceed. The park, along with three schools, will be subjected to pollutants emitted by the Dutro plant. A walk in the park will be at your own risk. That safe haven is now a health issue. Particularly since the Dutros have been fined time and time again for environmental and business related violations. This may sound rote, but Carrillo is in big business and developers' back pocket. Many issues re: developement will be decided over the next few years and I, for one would not like to see Sonoma County paved over. Especially with Dutro getting the contract! pLease excuse any typos.
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  49. TopTop #26
    Karl Frederick's Avatar
    Karl Frederick
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by garyahighland: View Post
    go ahead and vote for Ralph and when Romney takes office remember you had a choice. You chose to lose.
    I think I understand where you're coming from, and admit it's a valid consideration. Yet, I wonder when we will vote for someone we'd like to see in office, rather than against someone we don't. If a significant number voted for a third party who lost and took enough votes to hand the election to, say, Romney, would the subsequent unfolding (unraveling?) of events under his administration be enough to stir the electorate into paying more attention and demanding constructive change in the way we elect people to office? With apologies to the feathered, a "lesser of two evils" method of choosing is for the birds.
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  50. TopTop #27
    maryr45's Avatar
    maryr45
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    from today's Press Democrat:

    Carpenter's conversion

    EDITOR: The letter from Bob Whitney (“Forest conversions, Wednesday) acting as apologist for Ernie Carpenter's flip-flop on timber-to-vineyard conversions is laughable. It reads like spin written by Dick Cheney, master of political deception. Carpenter and Whitney are engaged in flagrant revisionist history.

    Articles appeared in The Press Democrat in May and June 1999 and can be found in paper's online archives. Anyone who can read will reach the unavoidable conclusion that Carpenter was a hack for Rich Padula's 1999 proposal to convert 10,000 acres of coastal forest to vineyard in Sonoma and Mendocino counties. Go see for yourself.
    Here's a sample from a May 22, 1999 article (“Plan calls for 10,000 acres of grapes”), “The proposed 10,000 acres of vineyards would dwarf most grape planting projects on the North Coast” and Carpenter “has been hired as a consultant to the project.”

    Also see Chris Coursey's June 28, 1999 column, which says “Carpenter acknowledges that Padula, a Willits lumberman, hired him in part to trade on my name and my good reputation — or what's left of it.” Your reputation Ernie? Not so good.

    RICHARD JOHNSON
    Sebastopol


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by tommy: View Post
    Ernie does seem like a bit of a whore - not that he doesn't appeal to some individuals.

    It seems like he's courting the environmental vote, taking the opposite stance on issues Efren is criticized on, such as Dutra & Best... although his past actions have not always been supportive of environmental concerns.

    He's a bit of a tainted candidate, an opportunist, like may politicians, is he not?

    Can anyone offer any defense of him?
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  52. TopTop #28
    Gus diZerega's Avatar
    Gus diZerega
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    Not only does this location speak eloquently as to Carrillo's true priotities, it demonstrates that having more money than God need not accompany having any aesthetic sensibility at all.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by neil: View Post
    This Sunday from 5-7 pm there is a fundraising event for Efren Carrillo at 5626 Vine Hill Road, Sebastopol.

    Hey, I thought, that's my neck of the woods! So I googled the address...whoa! Fancy place!

    Most of us never get to see the inside of such a place, let alone live there. So if you have the requested 50 buck$ to attend, or if you don't mind seeming to be too poor but you want to go anyway, you can make your way there and maybe rub shoulders, eat, drink, pretend..... or maybe they won't even let you in.

    You can view this 61 acre $14 million property at this high-end real estate website, listed as "Vine Hill Ranch" about half way down the page. I recommend taking the virtual tour!

    https://www.spanekre.com/html/network/intro.html

    I see these images and I think about the immigrant farm workers and other laborers who create such wealth. I think about what their life is like and choke on the contrast.

    What is Efren telling us by saddling up to such wealth? Should we go and ask him Sunday? Maybe pocket some yummy goodies and distribute them to their rightful owners in the poor Latino neighborhoods of Santa Rosa? Hmmm....

    Neil
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  53. TopTop #29
    Gus diZerega's Avatar
    Gus diZerega
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    My answer to your question is "no."

    Third parties will play a important role for good in this country only when the electoral rules are changed. Until then under current conditions they are a standing threat to any hope at all. There is a solution that would empower third parties in a good way, and no third party to my knowledge has indicated any interest in it at all.

    Our plurality system guarantees that voting for a third party assists the main party you dislike most. If we had majority elections that would no longer be the case because if no one received a majority some kind of run off, like an instant run off, would take place. Greens and others would have a real chance to make a difference. Even win.

    If third parties campaigned for a state initiative requiring majority vote elections I would respect them as sincere advocates for improving California and the country. Until they do I consider them vanity parties serving their leaders' egos and feelings of self-righteousness on the part of their supporters, all without doing anything constructive to help anyone.

    I am not defending the main parties. I am saying politics is the art of the possible, and when all we have is a choice between a thief and an ax murderer, I'm voting for the thief rather than throwing my vote away because I will not vote for a crook, thereby increasing the probability the ax murderer will be elected. Many many thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of dead Iraqis testify mutely to the worse than foolishness of letting personal self-righteousness and a misplaced sense of purity override good sense when voting. Our Supreme Court is the travesty it is mostly because of Republican appointees. Bush made the key appointees. That is yet another testimony to the irresponsible imbecility of those who voted for Nader in places where the election could have gone either way- like Florida. It has only gotten worse since then.

    I have argued for years for third parties to campaign for majority vote elections which would enable them to actually matter, and for the most part all I have ever heard from them is crickets... I'd contribute $1000 to an initiative on the subject that had credible backing organizationally. And I am very very far from wealthy.

    Gus

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Karl Frederick: View Post
    I think I understand where you're coming from, and admit it's a valid consideration. Yet, I wonder when we will vote for someone we'd like to see in office, rather than against someone we don't. If a significant number voted for a third party who lost and took enough votes to hand the election to, say, Romney, would the subsequent unfolding (unraveling?) of events under his administration be enough to stir the electorate into paying more attention and demanding constructive change in the way we elect people to office? With apologies to the feathered, a "lesser of two evils" method of choosing is for the birds.
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  55. TopTop #30
    Gus diZerega's Avatar
    Gus diZerega
     

    Re: Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

    I'm impressed that you mention no concrete issues where Carrillo has taken a good stand and just attack his opponent.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by maryr45: View Post
    I come by once in a while to see what's up and it's always the few miscreants bashing the hardest working Supervisor the Fifth District has ever had, Efren Carrillo.

    Ernie's a blow hard, he's Ratzo Rizzo pounding on the hood of the taxi saying, "HEY, Look at ME!" He dropped the ball his last years in office, burned out and didn't do dodoo.

    Meanwhile Ernie's been a bag man for timber interests and garbage companies selling his services to the highest bidder (provided they wear protection I would assume).

    This is Ernie's last hurrah, I'll be glad to see the 14 commentators here take notice when Efren get's over 50% and it's all over.
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