Expanding Water Fluoridation in Sonoma County

[PDines]

Thanks all for the conversation here.

I wanted to let folks know that I've created a central webpage for local Sonoma County actions about community water fluoridation (CWF), which offers a handy link for you to check out and forward to others. I keep updating it as I find new resources.

www.healthyworld.org/StopSCFAction.html

Some of the items there that you might find helpful:

1) I've created a handy webpage summary of what I see as the key problems with CWF, with citations, at www.healthyworld.org/SCFluoridation-About.html. Read this to learn more, identify key points you might make, and get supporting citations. It also offers my proposals for fixing the process with the Board of Supervisors, which I feel is currently biased towards CWF.

(Note: I think it's vital that we skip the more fringe arguments when trying to persuade mainstream people, as those are making people think that opposition is wacky and not founded in facts. In my writing, I focus on the science and other core arguments that even quite mainstream people can understand. Those arguments are really enough!)

2) If you want to create an informational flyer, you can use my two Ask EcoGirl columns on this topic, which includes most of the points on my summary webpage. Just go to each of these links, download the PDF for each column, then copy them double-sided on one page. [see page for more info]

3) You can join and participate in the email/online group I created to help us stop SC fluoridation. (You can have an email, digest, or web-only membership in this group.)
https://groups.yahoo.com/group/StopSCFluoridation

4) I've also created a low-volume priority action alert email list for this topic. It's one of the options on my personal email list page. See www.patriciadines.info/EList.

5) I also post ongoing information on this and other eco-topics on my Ask EcoGirl Facebook page. Come by for a visit! www.facebook.com/AskEcoGirl

So that just gives you some of the items on that action page. It also gives links to two SC petitions, local webpages and Facebook groups on this topic, a link to SC supervisors email addresses, information on the contractors in the SC water agency system, helpful handouts I've created with information and policy statements, and lots of good general resources on this topic.

I hope that folks find this helpful!

Best regards - Patricia

Patricia Dines
Freelance Writer, Educator, & Public Speaker
Specializing in Environmental & Community Issues
Serving periodicals, businesses, nonprofits, and government
www.patriciadines.info
www.askecogirl.info

[PDines]

In terms of the arguments we make to mainstream folks against fluoridation - I suggest that we stick with the very core scientific arguments - they really are enough - and the more fringe arguments are much more difficult to prove and make us seem "wacky" and not factual. I'd say this "wacky" image is our #1 barrier to being heard with the very real reasons not to fluoridate.

So for instance I really advice skipping the "Nazis used fluoride" argument. I know that's asserted by some, but I do not consider it a confirmed fact. And it's not needed for our argument. See the summary against this assertion at https://www.politifact.com/florida/s...lude-nazi-myth.

Also, many of us ask the question, "Since this is so disproven, why does it continue?" It's a reasonable question, and it's fine to explore it personally, if you wish. BUT I think we need to be VERY cautious about asserting our THEORIES about motivation as fact. How do you feel when others assume negative motives about you? It undermines fair conversation. We need to be the voice of reason here! Reason is our strongest card!

In this situation, we don't have one clear smoking gun of motivation. Yes, there's good evidence that fluoridation lets the fertilizer industry get rid of their toxic waste, and we can certainly mention that. But I don't think that fully explains the level of infrastructure supporting fluoridation. So then people make all sorts of UNSUPPORTED assertions that folks, including the Supervisors, must be being paid off. But I think those kind of unfounded claims just turn people off and are not helpful.

I actually think a fair number of people supporting fluoridation just sincerely believe the claims for it! The claims are so persuasive (safe and effective! etc.) and are being put out by expert organizations. We have to see how that looks to people! In med school, doctors and dentists are just told that fluoridation works. And we have a culture where people just believe what experts tell them. Many folks don't look under the surface, or know how to discern between lots of theories to where the truth lies.

Once we understand that, then to me we see that it's VITAL that we stick to the facts and demonstrate OUR expertise. We need to show the many facts that go against fluoridation. That's why the fringe arguments work against us.

There are other reasonable reasons that folks are sticking with the pro-fluoridation claims, for instance - ego; not wanting to admit they're wrong; risk of liability; risk of sticking one's neck out within organizations - etc.!

And yes it deeply concerns me that there is a structure that keeps promoting this, forcing it down our throats. We can theorize about why amongst ourselves, if we must.

But I think that we also need to be humble to what we don't know, and careful not to make unsupported assumptions.

My goal is to stop this practice, which many in the world think is barbaric. To do that, I think we need to be able to persuade mainstream people. And I don't think we need to assert covert motive to persuade them, especially when so many of the assertions aren't proven. Really, the science and facts that we have are enough!

To see my fact-based argument against fluoridation, with citations, go to www.healthyworld.org/SCFluoridation-About.html. Feel free to forward that link to others!

I hope this is helpful -

Patricia Dines
Freelance Writer, Educator, & Public Speaker
Specializing in Environmental & Community Issues
Serving periodicals, businesses, nonprofits, and government
www.patriciadines.info
www.askecogirl.info

[DreadTori]

Thank you, thank you thank you, Patricia! I cannot agree more. All the "fringe" arguments convince others that we are a bunch of nuts and then they shut out everything we say, including the scientific facts against fluoridation. The facts are argument enough, as long as we know them well, and are willing to talk about them at every opportunity. I have talked to the clerks at Oliver's, the nurses at Kaiser while seeing my friend there, the young people working at my bank, people I'm standing in line with at the movies. I often start loud conversations with my friends in public places just so that others can eavesdrop & hopefully learn something! Lots of people have asked me about it when they overheard what I was saying.

If we could all wear anti-fluoridation buttons that said "ask me about the facts about fluoridation" lots of people would ask. In the prop 37 campaign, we handed out "GMO free grandma/kid/farmer/mom, etc. buttons and they started conversations. I still wear my grandma one.

And FYI- EVERY ICU NURSE I talked to at Santa Rosa Kaiser hospital thinks fluoridation is incredibly dangerous. They all cited elders, babies, young children, immune compromised folks getting doses that could harm them, plus they are all over the medication without informed consent issue AND the mass medication is unethical argument. We might want to consider asking the nurses' unions to make a statement.

In terms of the arguments we make to mainstream folks against fluoridation - I suggest that we stick with the very core scientific arguments - they really are enough - and the more fringe arguments are much more difficult to prove and make us seem "wacky" and not factual. I'd say this "wacky" image is our #1 barrier to being heard with the very real reasons not to fluoridate.

So for instance ...

[PDines]

You're most welcome. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and for your actions too. I love the buttons idea! :-)

Thank you, thank you thank you, Patricia! I cannot agree more. All the "fringe" arguments convince others that we are a bunch of nuts and then they shut out everything we say, including the scientific facts against fluoridation. The facts are argument enough, as long as we know them well, and are willing to talk about them at every opportunity. I have talked to the clerks at Oliver's, the nurses at Kaiser while seeing my friend there, the young people working at my bank, people I'm standing in line with at the movies. I often start loud conversations with my friends in public places just so that others can eavesdrop & hopefully learn something! Lots of people have asked me about it when they overheard what I was saying.

If we could all wear anti-fluoridation buttons that said "ask me about the facts about fluoridation" lots of people would ask. In the prop 37 campaign, we handed out "GMO free grandma/kid/farmer/mom, etc. buttons and they started conversations. I still wear my grandma one.

And FYI- EVERY ICU NURSE I talked to at Santa Rosa Kaiser hospital thinks fluoridation is incredibly dangerous. They all cited elders, babies, young children, immune compromised folks getting doses that could harm them, plus they are all over the medication without informed consent issue AND the mass medication is unethical argument. We might want to consider asking the nurses' unions to make a statement.

[Glia]

You're right for the most part, and I concur about the "wacky" aspect.

However, if it was just about the science (to paraphrase Efren Carillo), like some many other harmful practices it would have been gone long ago. So, there must be something else keeping public water fluoridation going. It is a legitimate concern; IMO it does need to be discussed -- carefully and effectively.

In terms of the arguments we make to mainstream folks against fluoridation - I suggest that we stick with the very core scientific arguments - they really are enough - and the more fringe arguments are much more difficult to prove and make us seem "wacky" and not factual. I'd say this "wacky" image is our #1 barrier to being heard with the very real reasons not to fluoridate.

[Glia]

Bravo nurses!! Definitely get the nurses' union to make a statement. And when they do, they should send out a formal press release and be sure to post the statement/release here on Waccobb.

And FYI- EVERY ICU NURSE I talked to at Santa Rosa Kaiser hospital thinks fluoridation is incredibly dangerous. They all cited elders, babies, young children, immune compromised folks getting doses that could harm them, plus they are all over the medication without informed consent issue AND the mass medication is unethical argument. We might want to consider asking the nurses' unions to make a statement.

[Glia]

the "payoff" is not necessarily in dollars.

The payoff can be the appearance of providing "help to the needy" while also being "fiscally prudent." It can be a setup for the next political career move (Zane, McGuire).

The naive/gullible ones (Brown's replacement, Carrillo, Rabbit to some extent) actually believe the hogwash think it is a good idea.

Yeah, have to agree with you. Looking VERY suspicious. Where's the money? Who benefits?

[Glia]

I believe you are absolutely right! One of the two is obviously Shirlee Zane. But who is the other one? Perhaps this photo she "tweeted" on April 2nd provides a clue:


and why is her hardhat lopsided?

... I believe that forced fluoridation is part of a master plan concocted by two of our "supes" who have aspirations to seek higher political office in the future. If they are successful in getting this plan enacted, they will have a notch on their belts to impress some of their economically disadvantaged voters, who might be impressed by such a thing, hoping that they are and will remain unaware of the true motives, inaccuracies, junk science and misinformation behind their hidden agenda.

[sebastacat]

Hardhat lopsided? YOU'RE absolutely right; it is!

Perhaps it was intentional, given the way that the "supes" have skewed the fluoridation debate in one direction.....

[dzerach]

Apparently the promise made for "affordable healthcare" implied -- w/outthe need to directly mention-- hose a "known cure" (contaminant) directly (&forcibly) into everyone's water supply? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZmC...948gyQ&index=9

[dzerach]

ALSO, isn't fluoride a waste product from agriculture? Does Mike still have family/business ties to the agriculture industry? IF so, I would think some disclosures would eventually be expected? From where do they plan on procuring the fluoride -- that kind of thing. Just a thought and nothing else.

A few excerpts from his campaign website -- https://mikeforsupervisor.com/about.html

"Northern Sonoma County has been his family's home for three generations….Mike was raised right here in Sonoma County. His family farmed Alexander Valley lands – growing prunes and grapes – for almost a half century....Mike has worked his entire adult life to protect our environment and preserve our local agriculture heritage for future generations. He’ll continue to fight to protect our drinking water supplies and the fragile Russian River ecosystem, and to build partnerships with local communities to make the Sonoma County Water Agency a model for water conservation efforts.....As a co-founder of the Clean Water Coalition, Mike was a leader in the effort to stop the City of Santa Rosa from dumping billions of gallons of treated wastewater into the Russian River."

I wonder if he knows the Sierra Club is anti-fluoridation.

[Magick]

This just in from the Sonoma County Water Coalition SCWC.
This is an excellent 31 minute video which includes solid data on the effect of fluoride on fish and people. Please forward to friends and family in Sonoma County.

The video was created for the 2013 Portland, Oregon anti-fluoridation campaign, "Fluoridation and the Environment" goes into detail about the effects of fluoridated water on fish, then goes on to offer clear
explanations of the science re. fluoridation's efficacy for dental health, and safety for human consumption. [links below]

Many thanks for getting the word out.
Video: Fluoridation and the Environment (2013) [31:06]
Howard Patterson
Published on Apr 10, 2013

High resolution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PYej_OgZHE

Medium resolution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdsK4O1E-J8

If you have trouble with the video, watch the
Low resolution version here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIsY-Ky_uaY

Note from Howard Patterson: Dr. Paul Connett points out a misattribution in the text of the video. At 22:22, I list a series of areas demanding further safety study, and attribute it to the York Review (2002): in fact, those quotes are from the later National Research Council study (2006), which I discuss at 23:31. Pardon the misattribution.

For more on Howard Petterson (you may remember the Flying Karamazov Brothers):

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/howard-...son/13/797/703

I caught part of an interview with Dr. Paul Connett on KPFA a while back and found it quite interesting. I reccomend you tune in to one of the radio interviews above or better yet one of the live events today or tomorrow listed here.

You can hear the KPFA interview here.

[ruthnew]

Hope Sonoma County is this smart! https://www.fluoridealert.org/articl...tland_victory/

PORTLAND USES SCIENCE & INTEGRITY TO DEFEAT FLUORIDATION



Fluoride Action Network | Press Release | May 21, 2013
Portland, Oregon — A broad coalition of Portlanders have resoundingly rejected adding fluoridation chemicals to the city’s water supply. By a 61% to 39% margin, Portland voters agreed with the positon of most western nations that there are safer, more effective, and less intrusive ways to promote oral health than adding a chemical linked to thyroid disease, IQ loss, and other ailments to the water supply.

Continues here: https://www.fluoridealert.org/articles/portland_victory/

[sebastacat]

Hope Sonoma County is this smart! https://www.fluoridealert.org/articl...tland_victory/

PORTLAND USES SCIENCE & INTEGRITY TO DEFEAT FLUORIDATION

Thanks so much for posting this. You made my Memorial Day weekend!

I, too, hope that the people of this county are as smart as their Portland counterparts.

The task now, as I see it, is to re-shift the debate, as the "supes" seem to have made this a one-sided
proposition which some people seem to think is a foregone conclusion.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I invite the "supes" to take note of this stunning victory. Think it can't happen here? Think again.
I, for one, have signed anti-fluoride petitions, have gotten others to do the same and will vote resoundingly
AGAINST ANY PROPOSAL which seeks to put poison in Sonoma County's precious water supply.

I have been doing my part by educating those who are unfamiliar with this unpopular, scientifically-devoid proposal to fluoridate our water. And I can tell you that I have not spoken to one -- NOT ONE -- person who
supports fluoridation of our water supply. I think that as people learn more about this, this number is only going to increase.

Let us all do our part by taking the time to educate those county residents among us who are unaware of this proposal and by continuing to speak out against it.

[gcarothers]

https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2...-fluoridation/

Is it possible, just possible that scientists aren't out trying to poison us?

[sebastacat]

"Is it possible, just possible, that scientists aren't trying to poison us?"

Maybe. But apparently, our elected officials at the county level are.

"Unlike the case with the anti-vaccine movement, the consequences of the antifluoridation movement are not illness, disability and death."

No, just increased fluorosis of the teeth, broken bones and decreased kidney function. Please remember, folks, that fluorosis from overfluoridation can strike both the young and the old. Remember, too, that adding fluoride to the water supply has very dangerous consequences for our older population. Fluoride is particularly hard on those undergoing dialysis. Let's not forget about our elderly population in this battle.

"Apparently, Portlandians must like going to the dentist."

No, apparently, from the results of the latest fluoride referendum, we can deduce that most Portlandians don't want to ingest a by-product of the phosphate fertilizer industry, much of which comes from China, and which has been proven to contain lead, arsenic and other toxic heavy metals.
And neither do a lot of Sonoma County residents either, including me!

The swipe by the blogger that Portland has a lot of uninformed and uneducated people was completely uncalled for. Portland, in some ways, is much more progressive than Sonoma County. And let's not forget, they grow some of the most beautiful roses in the world. (This coming from a national champion rose grower -- me!)

Maybe what it all really boiled down to up there in Portland was that Portlandians wanted to keep their precious Pacific Northwest water supply free of poison. If our "supes" truly care about the residents of this county, they will abandon this unpopular, misguided, dangerous proposal and instead endorse and embark on a program of dental education, which includes basic instruction at the elementary-school level on how to brush, how many times a day to brush, etc. Dental clinics could be dispatched to the schools to examine and treat and educate children for a fraction of what it will cost to implement the pro-fluoride agenda. They can even teach the students about fluoride toothpaste and let them and their parents make the decision whether or not they want to use it.

In the end, I believe that one's dental hygiene comes down to this: regular dental checkups -- with a dose of personal responsibility thrown in for good measure.

And remember, no one is going to brush your teeth for you.

[Glia]

One should ponder why the Army was so interested in convincing the American citizenry to fluoridate their water.

... These Native Americans were very resistant and would not let the government "poison" their water. She had "learned" from the dentists that fluoridation was needed. Because of her love and concern for the people she was able to convince them it would be good to do. After that happened she received an invitation to go to Washington D.C. She was offered an officer position in the Army and went around the country convincing communities to fluoridate their water. She is now retired.

[WeWe]

Hi all,
Here is a link to a very informative interview with Ramiel Nagel regarding healing tooth decay. here is the narrative that goes with it:

Ramiel Nagel - Hour 1 - Cure Tooth Decay
May 23, 2013
Ramiel Nagel will talk about how to cure tooth decay and tooth infections. He’ll discuss the history of dentistry. The early findings of Dr. Weston A. Price, who founded what became the American Dental Association, have been largely suppressed and now dentistry has been turned into a very unsound and toxic industry. In the second hour we continue the story of dentistry, toxicity and how to heal your teeth naturally. Ramiel talks about sugar and high fructose corn syrup, the worst of them all. Are any sugar alternatives really better at all? Later, we’ll discuss amalgam fillings and how mercury leaches into the body from our teeth. Ramiel gives some tips on what to eat and what not to eat in order to remineralize your teeth. At the end, we also detail the options when it comes to dentistry and what you can do to make sure that you get a hold of a good holistic dentist if you need one.

https://www.redicecreations.com/radi...RIR-130523.php

[sharingwisdom]

I honestly don't understand the point of this story. Just because some dentists said the reservation needed fluoride doesn't mean anything. Considering the lobby of the American Dental Association, it just pushes the agenda of Big Pharm. Just because the hygienist loved the people didn't mean she wasn't misinformed. Monsanto says we need GMO food. If you love the people who work in their buildings, do you go out and promote that GMO's are safe?

I use to be a dental hygienist for 26 years, and I knew that dentistry was one of the worse situations for toxicity, both from Mercury and fluoride plus other dental materials. And then they started blitzing people's brain's with 'drill-less dentistry" in the 90's with the application of aluminum silicate. When my former employer introduced the product, he said, "The company said it's safe. Go promote it." I started laughing. I researched what aluminum does to the body and showed him. And aluminum is where the fluoride industry took off from...the dumping of their by-product, fluoride, into the water saying it's safe. I watched children vomit from fluoride.

So the point of my story is she who loves people can use discernment to do her own research and find the real facts. Get informed!

I have a personal story about water fluoridation that I've thought about posting. But, I wondered what was the point? I think it demonstrates that some people are well meaning but misguided. They haven't done the research. Maybe they don't even know how. And they simply believe what they have been told by those in charge.

One of my dear friends grew up in Santa Rosa and is now in his 70s. Several years ago we started discussing water fluoridation and he told me this story. His sister went to school to be a dental hygienist. She got a job with two dentists. After awhile she decided that maybe this was not the job she wanted as a career. The dentists had invited her to go on a road trip with them to a reservation that had high tooth decay rates. She was excited to do so. These people did not have good oral hygiene and they drank lots of soda. She enjoyed working with the people and they loved her. The government had tried for many years to fluoridate their water.

These Native Americans were very resistant and would not let the government "poison" their water. She had "learned" from the dentists that fluoridation was needed. Because of her love and concern for the people she was able to convince them it would be good to do. After that happened she received an invitation to go to Washington D.C. She was offered an officer position in the Army and went around the country convincing communities to fluoridate their water. She is now retired.

[Glia]

Not only is it possible, it is probable because they truly believe this nonsense. They are true believers, the most dangerous of the deluded.

The pro-fluoridation "scientists" are in the same category as "scientists" who truly believe that climate change (aka global warming) is either a hoax or not caused by human activity, and the "medical" kooks who are genuinely convinced that cutting off part of a boy's penis somehow imparts "health benefits."

All of these naifs have fallen for what the late great Dr. Carl Sagan called 'The Bamboozle'. As James Randi is fond of pointing out, scientists are more susceptible to The Bamboozle than average folks because they are naive and trusting. In addition, being thought of as smart is a huge part of their self-image. Therefore once they have been captured by The Bamboozle they are compelled more than most to save face and protect their image/ego by defending it.

https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2...-fluoridation/

Is it possible, just possible that scientists aren't out trying to poison us?

[Glia]

Au contraire, it is a very telling story and I'm glad you posted it. What is the time frame on it? What year was the woman offered a position with the U.S. Army?

Thanks, that was my point along with saying a good person can be misinformed and do the wrong thing. It was just a local anecdotal story that happened over 40 years ago. I thought some people might find it interesting. I probably shouldn't have posted it. I am strongly anti-fluoridation.

[WeWe]

Hi all,

I just watched this short video regarding chemicals being used in Syria, guess what they say is being used?

Bombshell: Syria's "chemical weapons" turn out to be fluoride

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=et1NSxT1K4w

[Mudwoman]

...regarding chemicals being used in Syria, guess what they say is being used?

Bombshell: Syria's "chemical weapons" turn out to be fluoride

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=et1NSxT1K4w

A BIG thanks WeWe for finding this video!

Please forward this video to your congressional legislators, senators, and Sonoma county's Board of Supervisors....and your dentist. They don't want to be international war criminals (according to John Kerry), do they?

[podfish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=et1NSxT1K4w

Please forward this video to your congressional legislators, senators, and Sonoma county's Board of Supervisors....and your dentist. They don't want to be international war criminals (according to John Kerry), do they?

um, if you tend to write to the legislators or senators, I wouldn't reference this link too much, or your name will end up with one of those asterisks that help route your mail to the "give polite response without reading" desk. That's one of the least credible mashups of unrelated and self-contradictory claims I've foolishly wasted time watching.
One clue as to this guy's thinking: after pointing out how everything in the "main-stream media is a complete hoax", he immediately continues into an itemization of main-stream media reports that he's using as evidence of his claims. If you look around on the net a bit, you can find sites with more credible analysis of commonly-sold chemicals like this one: https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html - there are a lot of chemicals like this that you're far more likely to encounter in all sorts of products. Usually when you encounter flouride, you're also being exposed to dhmo.

[datars]

I love Mike Adams The Health Rangers work. I've been making my own Fluoride free with the ProOne filter from Infowars Store

I just watched this short video regarding chemicals being used in Syria, guess what they say is being used?

Bombshell: Syria's "chemical weapons" turn out to be fluoride

[lilypads]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin Mike Adams makes some interesting points, but "sodium fluoride" is not a chemical weapon. It is a substance used to MAKE a chemical weapon, sarin gas. Sodium fluoride is a powder (a solid). Sarin is a gas. Sodium fluoride is definitely a poison, used to kill rats, and lethal to humans also, though not in the dilutions used in water fluoridation. And sodium fluoride is actually used for fluoridation in very few US cities. The substance used is hydofluosilicic acid, a hazardous waste scrubbed from the smokestacks of phosphate fertilizer plants. But Mike is right that NO POISONS should be added to our water, and NO FLUROIDE should be given to babies. And the US should NOT bomb Syria unless Syria attacks us. If you contact your state and Federal representatives, ask them to outlaw water fluoridation because it causes many health problems, but not because fluoridation chemicals are chemical weapons. CRITICAL THINKING IS NEEDED HERE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=et1NSxT1K4w

[lilypads]

It appears that DHMO is identical to H2O.

...If you look around on the net a bit, you can find sites with more credible analysis of commonly-sold chemicals like this one: https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html - there are a lot of chemicals like this that you're far more likely to encounter in all sorts of products. Usually when you encounter flouride, you're also being exposed to dhmo.

[podfish]

It appears that DHMO is identical to H2O.

and as such is associated with many deaths, directly and indirectly. Well over 3000 deaths in the US and more than one hundred times that worldwide, from overexposure to naturally occuring DHMO. And it's an indispensable ingredient in lots of the substances that scare people. As you yourself pointed out in your discussion of the various flouride compounds, most people who are worked up over these chemicals aren't particularly clear on the details, so I thought the link might be instructive. It's certainly a more coherent description of the substance in question than most of the scare sites are about flouride, for example.

[WeWe]

It would seem perhaps, that there may be a need for common sense and perception of what is actually going on in the world around us along with some good solid critical thinking. It is my opinion that Mike Adams in his video was not stating what he considered fact but only restating what the media and our the government having been filling the mainstream media news with.

So if I understand him correctly, Mike Adams was emphasizing the contradiction regarding fluoride and pointing out that when the government wants to start a war, fluoride is a chemical weapon, but when they want to put it in our water supply, it's safe and healthy. Let me repeat that, Mike Adams was not saying that he believes fluoride is a chemical weapon, he was making an observation that the government has made various statements claiming that fluoride is a chemical weapon.

I realize there can be many perspectives and I think we need to recognize that fact in a way that doesn't discourage independent and responsible thinking. It's good to evaluate the facts and form our own opinions but before we put on the big boots and start stomping around on someone else's thoughts let's take a few moments in reflection and try to look at it from another angle.

Just read an interesting book: The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz and his four agreements are:

1. Be impeccable with your word.

2. Don't take anything personally.

3. Don't make assumptions.

4. Always do your best.

[rossmen]

what a crock, comparing water to fluorine and its compounds is a blazing straw pile. the only real poisonings of people by water that i am aware of was the advice for marathon runners to constantly drink. just because we are not fish does not make it toxic. you confuse the issue for your own amusement:(

and as such is associated with many deaths, directly and indirectly. Well over 3000 deaths in the US and more than one hundred times that worldwide, from overexposure to naturally occuring DHMO. and it's an indispensable ingredient in lots of the substances that scare people. As you yourself pointed out in your discussion of the various flouride compounds, most people who are worked up over these chemicals aren't particularly clear on the details, so I thought the link might be instructive. It's certainly a more coherent description of the substance in question than most of the scare sites are about flouride, for example.