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  1. TopTop #301
    Scott McKeown's Avatar
    Scott McKeown
    Supporting member

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    New term:

    Carpetbag Troll (noun)

    A carpetbag troll is someone who doesn't live anywhere near the local communities that Waccobb serves but creates an account solely for the purpose of proselytizing intensely about a specific cause, theory, or cult they are hyper passionate about. Carpetbag trolls sometimes (but not always) act rudely and denigrate local community participants who don't agree with them, as carpetbag trolls don't have any continuing accountability to that local community since they don't live there.

    It has been observed that during a contentious online discussion if one carpetbag troll gets strongly challenged, or gets in over their head and is unable to coherently defend their position, they sometimes call in additional carpetbag troll associates to provide support. In the case where a "bigger gun" expert is called in this is called a "Cyberringer". A group of carpetbag trolls will often coordinate their efforts and try to overwhelm a discussion thread with their often bizarre narrative. It sometimes takes several weeks to realize that a discussion thread has been infected by a cabal of associate carpetbag trolls. Used as in, "I notice about a week ago three carpetbag trolls joined Waccobb and are now taking up most of the oxygen and diverting the discussion to be all about their way out there conspiracy theory."
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  3. TopTop #302
    kpage9's Avatar
    kpage9
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    i don't think there's a limited oxygen supply...and nothing's being diverted that doesn't want to be. let's give ourselves a little credit here!

    (otherwise--brilliant!!!!! much appreciated!!!)

    Quote Scott McKeown wrote: View Post
    New term:

    Carpetbag Troll (noun)

    A carpetbag troll is someone who doesn't live anywhere near the local communities that Waccobb serves but creates an account solely for the purpose of proselytizing intensely about a specific cause...
    Last edited by Bella Stolz; 05-22-2014 at 01:49 PM.
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  5. TopTop #303
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Scott, and others too, FWIW, In my experience here on waccobb; Yes some people expressed that they did feel censored when their attacking (and trolling in some instances) were 'moderated' ('umpired') by Barry.

    Quote Scott McKeown wrote: View Post
    Perhaps people would feel it would be too much censorship of their freedom of expression here, but I often wish that there could be an unbiased "umpire" on Waccobb to call foul whenever someone wanders from the discussion of ideas and into personal attack of other participants on this forum.

    Scott
    Some individuals after being 'moderated' ('umpired') have been banned and some did unsubscribe from the website and others apologized for their attacks, at least, (I am not so sure about apologizes for 'trolling'), and at least some of them are still here and as far as I know, weren't banned and have not unsubscribed either...

    ...Example:
    To my fellow Waccos,

    Please accept my apologies for being exposed to this.

    I have banned iPragmatist until the "Red Pill" category has been created (for like minded "conspiracy theorists").
    The more respectful "theorists", such as Kate Magdalena Willens and "TyrannyNews" are welcome to continue to post here for the time being.
    I think Barry does quite well with his moderating here on WaccoBB, he may not see every personal attack immediately or without being notified directly by someone but when the time comes, Barry is consistent and it seems to me that his actions are only 'biased' for the rules that are explicitly laid out in the Posting Guidelines, Specifically:
    5) BE RESPECTFUL: You are welcome to disagree with someone but you may not attack them in any way, either publicly or privately. This includes slurs against population groups. One rule of thumb is that you should treat other members as if you are speaking in person with them. Also, any private email should remain private unless you have the author's permission to post it. If you receive inappropriate private email in response to your post on WaccoBB.net, please Contact Us.

    ...And:
    7) RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE. Any posts that are deemed inappropriate will be removed. Persistent failure to comply with these guidelines will result in having your posts require pre-approval or being banned from the system.

    ...And:
    15)TROLLS: If a member is judged to be a troll based on a review of their posts and people’s reactions, steps will be taken limit their access to board; Trolling will be identified by a consistent pattern of several criteria:

    1. Not supplying a real name (that can be verified)
    2. Frequent posting
    3. Post that engender irritated and emotional responses
    4. Posts that attack/question and are otherwise confrontational to others point of view
    5. Hijacking discussions
    6. Post that baits and provoke other group members, often with the result of drawing them into fruitless argument
    Also, there is an icon with a ! within a triangle which is a mouse-click “report post button”; I am reasonably sure that most here know about that... ...I am just saying as reminder.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-22-2014 at 04:04 PM.
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  7. TopTop #304
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    So much derp, so little time . . .

    Anyone wanting to go deep into the weeds of contrail science can peruse this open source article from Nature Climate Change: http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journ...imate1068.html

    Here is the abstract:

    Aviation makes a significant contribution to anthropogenic climate forcing. The impacts arise from emissions of greenhouse gases, aerosols and nitrogen oxides, and from changes in cloudiness in the upper troposphere. An important but poorly understood component of this forcing is caused by ‘contrail cirrus’—a type of cloud that consist of young line-shaped contrails and the older irregularly shaped contrails that arise from them. Here we use a global climate model that captures the whole life cycle of these man-made clouds to simulate their global coverage, as well as the changes in natural cloudiness that they induce. We show that the radiative forcing associated with contrail cirrus as a whole is about nine times larger than that from line-shaped contrails alone. We also find that contrail cirrus cause a significant decrease in natural cloudiness, which partly offsets their warming effect. Nevertheless, net radiative forcing due to contrail cirrus remains the largest single radiative-forcing component associated with aviation. Our findings regarding global radiative forcing by contrail cirrus will allow their effects to be included in studies assessing the impacts of aviation on climate and appropriate mitigation options.

    It was published in 2011, so there surely is much more on the subject. I provide this example to contrast with the crap we see on a certain sketchy website. This is what a for real, peer-reviewed, scientific article looks like.

    Also, one of our trolls called Wikipedia a "far left website" or words to that effect, proving once again that reality has a liberal bias.

    Richard
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  9. TopTop #305
    TyrannyNews
    Guest

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Barry:...unless there is a conspiracy I don't know about...
    He said snarkily as a soft-core reminder that "we're" delusional idiots. But, don't consider it insulting (unless there is a conspiracy I don't know about).

    Scott McKeown:...gather you live far from West Sonoma County...
    Yes, I live in Lexington Kentucky. However, I've lived for over 30 years in San Francisco and the Silicon Valley. My great grandparents owned movie theaters and service stations in southern california.

    Scott McKeown:...You originally signed up under the name Derrick Smithers and now you say your name is Peter Klein...
    Yes, that's true. I registered using the nick-name/blog name I always do to be recognizable to anyone familiar with me and a name I always use when a public forum bothers to ask for it. Then, gave you my real name as well.

    Scott McKeown:...I took the time to watch all ten of a ten-part series of YouTube videos of a presentation by Clifford...
    I never have seen that. It's a 5 year old presentation so it doesn't reflect the most timely findings of the past few years. You might be more interested in this 3-part discussion of his more recent research paper, "Mogellons: A Working Hypothesis"...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inVwVDdPCLg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTBxtsgw9dk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCJJtbAs_eU

    Scott McKeown:...only he and a few others have noticed them...
    View here a snapshot from the National Institutes of Health Website from back in 2006 where they show duplication/trisomy of 1q42 11 q42 12 as a disease and provide the number to their "Morgellons Information and voice mail line." Their term, not mine. So, it's fair to say more than a few have noticed.
    http://www.morgellonsexposed.com/nih1Q42_files/1Q42.jpg

    Scott McKeown:...take rather personally any critique that challenges his work...
    I prefer to think of it as refutation of arguments I disagree with.

    Scott McKeown:...there are people who suffer greatly from what is called Morgellons Syndrome...
    In which you link to the Wikipedia article on the topic, which states within the first sentence, "...a condition whose sufferers have the delusional belief that they are infested with disease-causing agents..." See the above comment which shows at least the NIH was saying otherwise in 2006. And, let's say this was an entirely delusional phenomenon. Would making clever jokes show you as sympathetic to their potentially psychiatric condition, or show you to be a cold and heartless individual who doesn't care either way? No skin in the game, in other words.

    Gus diZerega:...it requires showing evidence where the explanation of conspiracy is at least as rational as any other explanation...
    I believe you may have meant to say, "...is at least as 'feasible' as..." since there's no requirement that a conspiracy be rational. See the current influx of prominent figures arrested for sexually abusing children for examples of this.

    spam1:...you can go from clear, to thunderstorm clouds, in a matter of minutes, and the clouds form "out of thin air"...very cool condensation patterns...
    If the condensation forms out of thin air, why then does it take the shape of lines and wide bands so often? Are you aware that people denouncing chemtrails as being escentially baseless claim the supposed condensation forms in the wake of airplane engine exhaust?

    Rustie:...you have said nothing in response to my observations...
    I wasn't responding to your observations. I was providing the forum with an alternative assessment of Carnicom.

    Rustie:...he began the Carnicom Institute to propagate those opinions and guise them as scientific research...
    To make that statement as fact, without framing it as opinion is IMO slander. You state that Clifford is not qualified to be an authority on the issues he represents, yet then make an unqualified statement that you represent as fact in response.

    Rustie:...consider mentioning to your cohorts, Paul Harris (who I realize might well be you under another name)...
    I don't know a Paul Harris and my name is Peter Klein. To that, I'll swear on my life to have never pretended to be someone other than myself in any Internet communication. Kate, however is a fellow from the Institite.

    kpage9:...I agree with nearly everything you say, and admire the way you say it...
    I'll make a judgement of your comments, only because you admit that your comments to us "devotees" might be judgmental, off-puting and maybe painful. If you agree so much with Rustie and admire how he says things, I have to think you are either playing favourites to maintain a concensus or have an unhealthy admiration of aggressive and anti-social diatribes.

    kpage9:... in all this talk...nothing about fixing it, as far as I can tell...
    What a dismissive comment that ignores the hardship of possessing the views some of us have, and subsequently taking responsibility for them. What the hell do you think we're doing? Certainly you don't think I volunteer so much of my time and sweat into exposing government malfeasance just for the heck of it. I just want one exposure so that I can finally rest, and you critque us for not trying to fix things?

    Gus diZerega:...a belief in reasoned discussion and the obligation to provide evidence when we make claims we expect others to accept...
    I don't expect others to accept any claims. I do "hope" that others will not ridicule my comments or respond to them with dishonest and carefully crafted, logical fallacies.

    I'll just say before leaving that, this place is bad, bad, bad. I expect a community forum to be representative of all kinds of views. But, I rarely find such lock-step insolence under the guise of open debate. Seriously, if this place were a literal debate forum it would be reviewed as having been overly antagonistic. I challenge anyone to look over my comments in search of anything patently unkind or unhelpful. Just one man's opinion. But, I hope someone, anyone gets what I'm saying. I admit that I will probably read the responses to this post in my email. But I'm splitting from there.

    As a parting note, if anyone here wants to see a forum where the comments from a good-sized crowd of people is universally amazing and always interesting, check out... http://memoryholeblog.com/
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  11. TopTop #306

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    It's obvious that you were not responding to my observations, that was my point. Why do you bother to engage in a discussion if you are not going to discuss the points that are being presented and discussed? It appears to me that you and Kate were merely looking for a forum to harvest new converts to the institute. But as I said, that's just me...

    And once again Peter, you are flat wrong. I did not make an unqualified or slanderous statement. Just for the record, here it is again: He has opinions and he began the Carnicom Institute to propagate those opinions and guise them as scientific research. Fact: Clifford's description of the goals of his institution are “to provide the public with beneficial and responsible information concerning human health and the environment.” It's right there on his website, you might want to take a look. Contextually is it not his opinion as to what constitutes beneficial and responsible information concerning human health and the environment? And to establish an organization to “provide the public” with those opinions, is that not synonymous with propagating those opinions? The Carnicom Institute's website further states that the “Institute is extensively active in conducting scientific research”, yet I have not seen any evidence to support that claim. Would that not then indicate that he is in fact attempting to convey or guise his opinion pieces as scientific research when in fact there is none?

    I would suggest that if you intend to continue your work proselytizing the doctrines of Chemtrails that you pay a little more attention to your own dogma...

    And thanks to clarify that you've never represented yourself as anyone other than yourself

    Quote TyrannyNews wrote: View Post
    He said snarkily as a soft-core reminder that "we're" delusional idiots. But, don't consider it insulting (unless there is a conspiracy I don't know about).

    Yes, I live in Lexington Kentucky. However, I've lived for over 30 years in San Francisco and the Silicon Valley...
    Last edited by Bella Stolz; 05-22-2014 at 01:57 PM.
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  12. TopTop #307
    Gus diZerega's Avatar
    Gus diZerega
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    I meant both statements you give, and I meant them quite literally. Part of a rational explanation is that it is feasible. But only part.

    Quote TyrannyNews wrote: View Post
    He said snarkily as a soft-core reminder that "we're" delusional idiots. But, don't consider it insulting (unless there is a conspiracy I don't know about).


    Yes, I live in Lexington Kentucky. However, I've lived for over 30 years in San Francisco and the Silicon Valley...
    Last edited by Bella Stolz; 05-22-2014 at 01:58 PM.
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  14. TopTop #308

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Thank You Rustie, this explains a lot. This BB and myself have been hijacked into discussing/reading this goofiness for too long. I am now going to "Unsubscribe from this Thread".

    How are your tomatoes? Mine seem to be thriving.

    Tofu Larry

    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    I understand now Kate – you joined this board, May 02, 2014, solely to pick up on an old thread, one that had not received any activity since Dec 2012, for the purpose of proselytizing for the Chemtrails Cult and one of it's guru's Clifford Carnicom. My question is are you a hired gun or a groupie? Beyond that I have nothing else to say to you. Your inability to respond intelligently with any form of evidence other than 'I believe what I believe because I believe it' says it all.
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  15. TopTop #309
    Scott McKeown's Avatar
    Scott McKeown
    Supporting member

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote TyrannyNews wrote: View Post
    I'll just say before leaving that, this place is bad, bad, bad...

    As a parting note, if anyone here wants to see a forum where the comments from a good-sized crowd of people is universally amazing and always interesting, check out... http://memoryholeblog.com/
    It's interesting to me how these Clifford Carnicom supporters from afar can make such a fantastical claim (that bio-engineered "Morgellons" have been intentionally sprayed over all of us by chemtrails and which have now infected most people with a substance that can be easily viewed in blood cells or by swishing red wine in the mouth and spitting it out, yet of the hundreds of thousands of scientists and medical professionals around the world who analyze blood samples every day only they and a few of their allies have noticed it, or are not afraid to bring it up, or are not part of a vast coverup conspiracy)...but when this contention is questioned, or if Carnicom's qualifications or the evidence he presents is critiqued, they go into a defensive tantrum meltdown.

    They better get used to it because if they ever participated in a serious science forum they would be treated a lot more harshly there than they have been treated here on our little Sonoma County community online forum.

    It's sort of unfortunate, really, because after watching Clifford Carnicom in a rather long video I really like the guy, even though I have serious criticisms of many of the jumps of logic he takes. I do admire his willingness to take on an issue that is way out on the edge. And through his research on Morgellon fibers I would venture he is likely contributing something significant to the understanding of the real mystery that is Morgellons Syndrome. But I don't think these adherents of his (who all seem to have a far right-wing worldview) are helping his cause. It would probably be in his best interest for him to reign them in a bit. But then, they did get me and others to at least check out his research, and maybe that was their objective.

    By the way, most of the content on the recommended extreme right-wing website linked at the end of Peter Klein's last posting is about how the tragic Sandy Hook School massacre in Connecticut and the Boston bombing were really done by the US Government in order to enact stricter gun control laws...or whatever.

    I'm so done with this.

    Scott
    Last edited by Scott McKeown; 05-22-2014 at 10:00 AM.
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  17. TopTop #310
    kpage9's Avatar
    kpage9
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    With thanks to Scott for his thoughtful, measured and really pretty kind comments--i have to say i am so NOT done! I went on a Morgellons website and watched a (n otherwise numbing) talk by a Ms. Smallstorm--a lovely, articulate, humble woman speaking at the Conspiracy Con in 2011. I've tried to get Kate to say what she thinks the ultimate aim is, and sometimes she says she doesn't know, and other times she says it's just too awful to talk about. Well, Ms. Smallstorm was not shy about getting to the point. I don't know if her conclusions are representative, but they were well and familiarly received where she was speaking.

    And here they are--two of them, as far as I could make out:
    1) chemtrails: the human race, in order to become more useful and obedient to the overlords, is being changed genetically. the "post-human" will soon be all of us, without a shred of individual will.
    2) morgellons: making the connection with arguments against gmos--if we have in our bodies some material that doesn't belong to us (e.g. morgellons), we will eventually be charged with the crime of theft, incarcerated, and THEN either made useful--or neutralized.

    To prove her point, Ms. Smallstorm gave us five quotes from "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers".

    this just gets more and more interesting.

    please--someone tell me if this is NOT representative of the Morgellons/chemtrails thinking. but if you do, tell me then what is the purpose you understand to be behind this. quit hiding.

    kathy

    btw--kate you have a really beautiful singing voice!

    Quote Scott McKeown wrote: View Post
    It's interesting to me how these Clifford Carnicom supporters from afar can make such a fantastical claim (that bio-engineered "Morgellons" have been intentionally sprayed over all of us by chemtrails ...
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  19. TopTop #311
    Scott McKeown's Avatar
    Scott McKeown
    Supporting member

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

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    Darknet -- Sonoma County Division -- Level 51 Clearance Only

    Shadow Government operations confidential memo

    From: Agent Mordon, Supervising Agent, Darknet Sebastopol office

    To: Agent fhtagn, Supervising Agent, Darknet Santa Rosa office

    Agent fhtagen,

    I'm sorry to report to you that our efforts to contain the discussion on that fucking West County online bulletin board have failed. Just when we thought we had contained the problem and the issue was winding down, someone has now gone and inadvertently revealed The Plan.

    Check this out:

    1) chemtrails: the human race, in order to become more useful and obedient to the overlords, is being changed genetically. the "post-human" will soon be all of us, without a shred of individual will.
    2) morgellons: making the connection with arguments against gmos--if we have in our bodies some material that doesn't belong to us (e.g. morgellons), we will eventually be charged with the crime of theft, incarcerated, and THEN either made useful--or neutralized.
    Our Overlords will not be pleased. And I know I'm going to hear from Central about this.

    Jesus, I sure hope that new generation of mind control Morgellons kicks in soon because it's getting more difficult by the day to keep all this shit from leaking out.

    Frankly, I had hoped that Central's Operation Cinematic Control would have worked better by now, but it looks as though all those released Science Fiction movies designed to mask The Plan may have backfired. I knew it was a wrong move! Rather than succeeding in discrediting any idea that it's actually real, too many people are actually believing them. I think the Matrix and the X-files just went to far in revealing The Plan too closely, and now we've got a major shit storm on our hands. But that's all water under the bridge now.

    Confidentially between you and me, I'm beginning to have some doubts that the Overlords will spare all us Shadow Government agents and our families as they promised. I'm already noticing some dissension in the ranks of our agents. Three of my agents did the red wine test and found out they've been infected. Central says the Overlords have apologized and are taking steps to decontaminate them, but this has not helped morale around here. And I know of one agent who recently refused to pilot an aerosol sprayover until he got confirmation that his family was already inside their protection chamber. And I've recently been hearing agents refer to "the Reptiles" rather than "Our Overlords" as Darknet protocol demands. Where is this sort of insubordination going to stop?

    Agent Mordon out

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  21. TopTop #312
    Karen the KAT
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote Dixon wrote: View Post
    Ideally you do both. First you find out (from some trusted source with real expertise on the specific subject and no obvious conflicts of interest), which of the studies were properly designed, conducted, and interpreted, then you find out what the consensus among those studies is, if any. What we often see is people proffering whatever studies support their bias and ignoring the others. If there are 87 good studies contradicting the results of their favorite three studies, they don't want to know it. If you point out that the preponderance of the evidence doesn't support their position, be ready to duck.
    Yes, well there were hundreds of university papers that denied MKUltra probably because they were part of it LOL!

    [ Be sure to check out the link above! Barry!]
    Last edited by Barry; 05-23-2014 at 05:17 PM.
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  22. TopTop #313
    Karen the KAT
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote Scott McKeown wrote: View Post
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    Darknet -- Sonoma County Division -- Level 51 Clearance Only

    Shadow Government operations confidential memo

    From: Agent Mordon, Supervising Agent, Darknet Sebastopol office

    To: Agent fhtagn, Supervising Agent, Darknet Santa Rosa office

    Agent fhtagen...
    Yeah but....

    It's human nature (and animal nature) to want to ensure the perpetuity of our DNA, our family line, over those of others. This doesn't happen unless one fights for it, and thus the strongest always rise to the top (Darwinism).

    Therefore we can look back at the beginning our humans and apply this: Certain families came to power in their geographic area and held on to that power because they were both physically stronger, but more importantly, less inhibited by human emotions, morals and ethics. For them it was perfectly OK to kill others in order to stay on top and not be killed themselves. The bigger and stronger they got, the more their area of influence expanded until they came up against groups equal to themselves, and on those lines early civilizations and cultures arose based on these dynasties. Let's say less than a couple hundred separate and nearly equal dynasties around 5,000 -m 6,000 years ago.

    Fast forward a couple thousand years and now maybe half of them survive, the rest having been destroyed and/or absorbed.

    Fast forward to the Romans and maybe half of those survive, say 50 or so.

    Advance to roughly 1,000AD and now you have roughly 30 "Royal" lines throughout Europe and Asia.

    Advance to 1914 and the winnowing began.

    Now at 2014 maybe 12-20 still exist, but they are EVERYWHERE... Even on WACCO...

    This is reality..
    Last edited by Bella Stolz; 05-23-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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  24. TopTop #314
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote Karen the KAT wrote: View Post
    Yes, well there were hundreds of university papers that denied MKULTRA probably because they were part of it LOL!
    That's an example of why I mentioned that we have to try to screen for conflicts of interest.
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  25. TopTop #315
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    I just read a brilliant and well-researched book "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout, which says that, world-wide, 4% of all people are sociopaths: they're born without a conscience.

    Quote Karen the KAT wrote: View Post
    Yeah but....

    It's human nature (and animal nature) to want to ensure the perpetuity of our DNA, our family line, over those of others. This doesn't happen unless one fights for it, and thus the strongest always rise to the top (Darwinism)...
    Last edited by Bella Stolz; 05-23-2014 at 02:35 PM.
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  26. TopTop #316
    Karen the KAT
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote Sara S wrote: View Post
    I just read a brilliant and well-researched book "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout, which says that, world-wide, 4% of all people are sociopaths: they're born without a conscience.
    Great book that, and yes not having a conscious makes one predisposed to rise to a position of power.

    It is not only genetically inheritable, but it can be taught, or more appropriately, it can be instilled, into children. This is how the ruling elite perpetuate their rule. "You have to be hard and strong, you're not like those other people, you are special, you were born to rule not to follow".

    Look at our politicians, they all show signs of sociopathic behavior, mainly the ability to tell us what we want to hear and then do the complete opposite. Look at our business and finance leaders, same thing. They have interbred and are everywhere in positions of power. I recently say a paper that shows how virtually all the people in political power in the Western World are all related within a couple/few generations, and they can all be traced back to one or more of twelve ancient royal bloodlines (will try to find and post it).

    For people who question this I would pose the following:

    Why would they not do this? How could they survive without doing so? or the more commonly accepted version "All politicians are owned because they must be so, otherwise the mega-rich could not become nor stay mega-rich".

    The only thing that gives them power are words, and the fact that we agree with those words, otherwise all power comes at the end of a sword. This BTW, is why they despise the 2nd. amendment and will do anything to get rid of it. It is the one thing that keeps them from enjoying complete and utter control; An armed populace. This is why they are so concerned with the military. It is a necessary tool but it can quickly turn on them and become their undoing. This is why armies have always been kept on a short leash with their existence dependent upon the ruling elite. Never have they had a tool as strong as the US military and yet it can so easily be turned against them.

    I would add that we need them and they need us. Sometime it takes a hard-ass to make hard decisions and get things done, but there is a balance and I believe right now that balance is in danger and thus we are all at risk of falling into a great anarchy (not the pleasant type we hypothesize about either).

    We live in interesting times no doubt...
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  28. TopTop #317
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote Karen the KAT wrote: View Post
    I would add that we need them and they need us. Sometime it takes a hard-ass to make hard decisions and get things done, but there is a balance and I believe right now that balance is in danger and thus we are all at risk of falling into a great anarchy (not the pleasant type we hypothesize about either).

    We live in interesting times no doubt...
    that's a great take on it. Like so many things, there's much more depth to the subject than first appears. Most people pretty much stop with "sociopath == evil" and are done thinking about it. But it's just a categorization of people by arbitrary standards, and that process in itself has potential for evil - and certainly has potential for oversimplification.

    I found a couple of interesting links about sociopaths, too - this one from NPR, and this story from "this American Life", which is the one I was actually looking for. But oddest of all was this one - Sociopath World.
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  29. TopTop #318
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Just to stir the pot, here's a tasty link for the delectation of all us sheeple non-believers (the comments thread is hilarious):

    http://thevane.gawker.com/chemtrails...1580245450/all
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  31. TopTop #319
    kpage9's Avatar
    kpage9
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    i was just thinking how much i miss these guys. And how all three disappeared like--well, like vapor in the sky--when the discourse became a little more specific about the purported objectives of the chemtrails and the underlying crimes against humanity.

    Gone.

    Kate didn't want to say what the objective was because a) she had no idea, b) it was too awful to talk about, or c) she feared she might be ridiculed--depending on the day.

    Come on! If it is really so horrible and you really are so dedicated to waking us up, come back out of wherever you've retreated to.

    kathy


    Quote geomancer wrote: View Post
    Just to stir the pot, here's a tasty link for the delectation of all us sheeple non-believers (the comments thread is hilarious):

    http://thevane.gawker.com/chemtrails...1580245450/all
    Last edited by Bella Stolz; 05-28-2014 at 01:42 PM.
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  33. TopTop #320
    Scott McKeown's Avatar
    Scott McKeown
    Supporting member

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote geomancer wrote: View Post
    Just to stir the pot, here's a tasty link for the delectation of all us sheeple non-believers (the comments thread is hilarious):

    http://thevane.gawker.com/chemtrails...1580245450/all
    The "Insane Lady Yells at Clouds and Sprays Vinegar at the Sky" video link is particularly hilarious.

    http://thevane.gawker.com/insane-lady-yells-at-clouds-and-sprays-vinegar-at-the-s-1550883163


    Who knew that going out in your backyard with a little spray bottle of vinegar would immediately clear up all the "chemtrails" at 30,000 feet up?

    Although, I can't help but feel sorry for her and even more for her poor son.

    Scott
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  35. TopTop #321
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote geomancer wrote: View Post
    Just to stir the pot, here's a tasty link for the delectation of all us sheeple non-believers (the comments thread is hilarious):

    http://thevane.gawker.com/chemtrails...1580245450/all
    Here is another link to a NASA webpage on contrail science. When jets came into use, their were obvious concerns that contrails would reveal their locations and allow accurate targeting of them. A good deal of study was done on the matter, resulting in the Appleman chart.

    http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/con...an_student.php

    Predicting Contrails Using an Appleman Chart [Student]


    Background: Military planners have been interested in condensation trail (contrail) forecasts since World War II. Contrails can make any aircraft easy to locate by enemy forces, and no amount of modern stealth technology can hide an aircraft if it leaves a persistent contrail in its wake. In 1953, a scientist named H. Appleman published a chart that can be used to determine when a jet airplane would or would not produce a contrail. For many years, the US Air Force Global Weather Center used a similar chart to make contrail forecasts. The first published reports of contrail formation appeared shortly after World War I. At first, scientists were not sure how contrails formed. We now know that they are a type of mixing cloud, similar to the cloud that sometimes forms from your breath during a cold winter day. Appleman showed that when the air outside of the airplane is cold enough and moist enough, the mixture of the jet exhaust and the air would form a cloud.

    An example of a contrail-forecasting chart is shown below. We will use the chart to make our own forecasts, and make observations to determine whether they are true or false.

    Name:  chart1.jpg
Views: 863
Size:  120.4 KB

    How to use the Appleman chart:
    A. Plotting the graph: Using either the temperature information provided by the teacher or the temperatures obtained from an Internet location (see note below), complete the table on the "Student Data Sheet", then plot the temperatures corresponding to each pressure level on the "Appleman Chart: Student Graph Worksheet". Connect the points to create a temperature profile of the atmosphere.

    Note: Temperature and humidity information can be obtained from weather balloon soundings launched twice a day from several locations around the country...

    To continue reading the full article, go to http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/con...an_student.php
    Last edited by Bella Stolz; 05-28-2014 at 02:13 PM.
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  37. TopTop #322
    Scott McKeown's Avatar
    Scott McKeown
    Supporting member

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote geomancer wrote: View Post
    Here is another link to a NASA webpage on contrail science. When jets came into use, their were obvious concerns that contrails would reveal their locations and allow accurate targeting of them. A good deal of study was done on the matter, resulting in the Appleman chart. http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/con...an_student.php
    Yeah...but this is just more of that science-ey expert stuff that we all know can never be trusted. Clearly, Alex Jones etc. are much more reliable sources.

    Besides, it has been claimed in this thread that all of it has been chemtrails all along ever since WWII. (I guess now since WWI.) So therefore Appleman was obviously just a paid shill covering up for the Gubmint back in 1953.


    .
    Last edited by Bella Stolz; 05-28-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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  39. TopTop #323
    mrcharming's Avatar
    mrcharming
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    For all those who still doubt geo-enginnering; i.e. chemtails, I invite you to view this You Tube video of ex Air Force officer Kristen Mehan:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHm0XhtDyZA

    Make up your own mind, but please do the research!
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  41. TopTop #324
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote mrcharming wrote: View Post
    For all those who still doubt geo-enginnering; i.e. chemtails, I invite you to view this You Tube video of ex Air Force officer Kristen Mehan:
    Make up your own mind, but please do the research!
    she's made herself available on an interesting thread here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/kri...e-blower.1066/
    I know some chemtrailers dislike metabunk, but Kristen (Meghan) is actively participating in this thread, along with a good mix of posters. Some are faintly trollish, but some are doing a good job of trying to get her to respond with specifics. And she's trying to do so, much more effectively than our recent visitors did. And for a bonus there's some Carnicomers on that thread too.
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  43. TopTop #325
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    and since this thread is morphed a bit into one about how people believe unlikely things with insufficient evidence: from Science Daily -- (edited excerpt below):

    A research team from Carnegie Mellon University and Harvard Business School set out to determine how people perceive their own spontaneous thoughts and if those thoughts or intuitions have any influence over judgment. their research found that spontaneous thoughts are perceived to provide potent self-insight and can influence judgment and decisions more than similar, more deliberate kinds of thinking
    people believe, precisely because they are not controlled, that spontaneous thoughts reveal more meaningful insight into their own mind -- their beliefs, attitudes and preferences -- than similar, deliberate thoughts. As a consequence, spontaneous thoughts can have a more potent influence on judgment," "People often believe their intuitions, dreams and or random thoughts reveal more insight than the result of more effortful thinking and reasoning. This research helps to explain these curious beliefs."
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  45. TopTop #326
    Scott McKeown's Avatar
    Scott McKeown
    Supporting member

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    she's made herself available on an interesting thread here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/kri...e-blower.1066/
    .
    I watched the whole video of Kristen Mehan, and while she is very passionate, the only "evidence" that she offers is that as a low-level enlisted Air Force employee she witnessed some chemicals be delivered to a couple of Air Force bases that she couldn't explain or get answers about, and purportedly got harassed for pushing about it. She presented no actual evidence linking the chemicals to chemtrails but only conjecture. She also says she took "ground samples" which supposedly proves the existence of chemtrails.

    Nobody contests that cloud seeding happens in some places or that there are no doubt geoengineering experiments and other secretive military experiments taking place from time to time. But that is something extremely different from the contention that every lingering contrail seen above us is a chemtrail.

    In the discussion thread pointed out by podfish where Kristen Mehan tries to defend her claims, she again is unable to offer any evidence despite the many requests for her to do so. She falls back on the usual chemtrails talking points and gives the Alex Jones website as her source in several instances. She spends a lot of time denouncing the idea of human caused climate change and goes off on a right-wing diatribe against Agenda 21 and the evils of collectivism.

    Here are several quotes from her:

    "United Nations Agenda 21 is the driving force behind sustainable development by way of population control through soft kill."

    "Recently, Congressman Paul Broun introduced a bill, H.R. 75, which calls for the United States to break away from the United Nations. Representative Broun has yet to find a co-sponsor for the bill; it is likely this bill will dissolve before it is giving any media coverage. What will it take for the American people to hold their government accountable for violating there oath of office! We should ask ourselves, should our President answer to its people, or the U.N.?"
    .
    Here is a quote from Congressman Broun, a Tea Party Republican from Georgia:

    “All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang Theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell."

    According to Wikipedia, Broun also believes that the world is less than 9000 years old and was created in six literal days. Of course, he also believes global warming is a hoax. Sadly, Broun is on the House Science Committee.

    Here is a another quote from Kristen Mehan in the discussion thread regarding chemtrails:
    .
    "The difference between contrails and chemtrails is easy. Contrails are from temperature variances at high altitudes that dissipate rapidly, where as chemtrails are stagnant and do not dissipate, they expand."

    I don't know how any claim can be more discredited than this one. (See many postings on this thread, including Geomancer's excellent post above.) This contention seems to always be the bottom line "proof" put forth by the proponents of the existence of chemtrails. However, no evidence of this claim is ever presented, while meanwhile there are mountains of evidence going back 70 years showing it is completely not true.

    Every single rabbit hole that is presented for us to discover the "truth" about the existence of chemtrails always ends up having a whole lot of crazy at the bottom. It's mostly all extreme right-wing paranoia, so I find it curious that in our left-leaning community there are so many people who seem to agree with this viewpoint.

    On this thread we are now going over and over the same discredited "evidence" of chemtrails. I hope someone offers something new or some actual real evidence, because it's starting to get boring.


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  47. TopTop #327
    Darylan's Avatar
    Darylan
     

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    I am interested in this.
    Last edited by Bella Stolz; 10-21-2014 at 12:34 PM.
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  48. TopTop #328
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

    Just to let you all know I plan to start an investigation non bias investigation on chem trails. Condensation or chemical trails, which one are they? that is the question I will be asking. Any information from other side would be great!
    nice. A non-biased investigation, where there's already "another side" identified. Can't wait to see the unbiased conclusions!
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