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  1. TopTop #1

    CHILD TORTURE or HELPFUL THERAPY United Nations Calls On Pres Obama To Stop This

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  2. TopTop #2
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: CHILD TORTURE or HELPFUL THERAPY United Nations Calls On Pres Obama To Stop This

    Holy crap!
    I thought by mentioning Abu Ghraib that they were sensationalizing.
    I read some of the replies (https://abcnews.go.com/images/Nightl...e_2_100630.pdf ) to the criticisms made by the M.D.R.I. I thought that the few pages that I read of the reply to the criticisms sounded reasonable until I read this:

    https://www.mdri.org/PDFs/USReportandUrgentAppeal.pdf

    According to MDRI interviews with the mother of an adolescent and with the attorney representing the mother, one boy spent two years almost continually strapped to a chair. From 2007 to 2009, when the mother refused the use of the GED on her child, he was almost continually strapped to a chair, until she was finally able to find another placement for him in a supervised group home.80

    They had him in a “chest protector” – a strap on his shoulders, a strap over his middle, over his crotch and leg straps too, if he acts up. – MDRI interview with the mother of a former JRC student81
    He has been strapped to a chair for 2 years – MDRI interview with attorney representing mother to get him out of JRC82
    According to this mother, the boy‘s only reprieve was when he was sleeping or being transported from his residence to the main school. Even during transport, however, he was shackled and handcuffed.
    If students are non-compliant or aggressive, 4 or 5 staff will wrestle kids to the floor and strap them to a board face down and then shock them. I have seen it more than once. They yell “help” and “send someone.” They could be there like that for 12 hours or more until they “complied.” – MDRI interview with former JRC teacher83
    They use the restraint board. Staff would take hold of them and get them on the ground and bring the board into the room. Mechanical restraints on both arms and legs face down and just left there. One student was in a classroom next to mine on GED. They put her on the board and would shock her and shock her. I was put in a GED seat board, strapped onto a chair. They turned a key to turn it on and it would automatically trigger a shock if I stood up without asking. I was in the chair for several months. I was also put in a room by myself and put in a 4-point chair – feet and chest tied to chair. I was strapped to the chair, except when I was sleeping, for four months. – MDRI interview with former JRC student84
    According to the JRC website and video, the school uses an automatic holster-like device, attached to a chair, in which children are made to keep their hands. Removal of the hands from the holster triggers an automatic shock.85
    It looked like a gun holster and they had to put their hands in there or automatically get a shock. Some children are in the devices for days and weeks at a time… – MDRI interview with former JRC teacher86
    One student, who suffered from seizure disorder and was labeled with a mild developmental disability, was sent to JRC from a public school system, after they could no longer handle his behaviors. He then spent seven years receiving a combination of shock and long-term restraint.87
    Then I realized what a horrible awful situation that whole thing is, in the first place.
    What a horrible combination of desperation and frustration.

    It seems to me that they are far overusing the usefulness of their device, because they themselves are frustrated and don't have answers to every misbehavior or difficult situation. And there is a huge lack of trained personnel, because it is so underfunded.

    It seems like that, if it really is truly being done like that which has been stated by the
    M.D.R.I then it does amount to unnecessary, vindictive, punishment and probably does constitute as severe, criminal, abuse and quite possibly also constitutes as torture as defined by treaty and therefore governed by international law to some extent.

    It seems like that kind of treatment could also be (at it's least) considered medical malpractice.



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  3. TopTop #3
    LenInSebastopol
     

    Re: CHILD TORTURE or HELPFUL THERAPY United Nations Calls On Pres Obama To Stop This

    It is a everybody loses situation, or maybe a no-win status, except a percentage, probably larger than not, do "comply" and behave.....sorry, but what does one do with a person that will continually strike themselves? How does one "live" with such a person. And you are right, absolutely there needs to be constant supervision and monitoring by folks like you, ones that hate that kind of behavioral modification, just to ensure the sick & twisted do not have a trigger hand. The only alternatives are drug to drool, continual aberrant behavior, or this.....sad case no matter what.....but some work better than others.
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  4. TopTop #4
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: CHILD TORTURE or HELPFUL THERAPY United Nations Calls On Pres Obama To Stop This


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by LenInSebastopol: View Post
    It is a everybody loses situation, or maybe a no-win status, except a percentage, probably larger than not, do "comply" and behave.....sorry, but what does one do with a person that will continually strike themselves? How does one "live" with such a person.
    I do agree that it is a nobody wins situation.
    Those are good questions because I know I could not live with somebody that was in a condition like that.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by LenInSebastopol: View Post
    And you are right, absolutely there needs to be constant supervision and monitoring by folks like you, ones that hate that kind of behavioral modification, just to ensure the sick & twisted do not have a trigger hand. The only alternatives are drug to drool, continual aberrant behavior, or this.....sad case no matter what.....but some work better than others.
    I would not exactly categorize myself as how you put it, hating; “that kind of behavioral modification”.
    I think that in some cases, I don't know what percentage rate (would be of) that particular “behavioral modification” method; if done properly actually does help, I think it's likely that it would work better than the “drug to drool” or letting them pick, bite, or beat themselves to death for some but that kind of therapy obviously cannot work for all of the patients.

    For some there might very well be zero percentage likelihood, probability, ability or whatever you call it, chance for them to be changed in any significant way whatsoever , no matter what treatment they are subjected to.

    I'm not so sure exactly what the best way to treat some of those patients would be but, I know that when they are tied down, spread eagle on some kind of an apparatus face down on the floor with somebody applying onto them those painful electrical shocks that in some cases actually leave burn marks on their skin (the power levels of the device that are apparently more than some powerful stun guns) having that done repeatedly for hours or for days on end, is cruel and unusual punishment, if not actual torture. Either way or both it is abuse.

    Besides that it's obvious that at some point, for some individuals that receive such treatment using painful electric shocks does not and probably never will work for the stated purpose by the "inventor" of the apparatus.

    the people that are working in those places apparently have problems themselves when they resort to continually shocking patients when they could otherwise be restrained and confine them without the continued unsuccessfull use of painful torture-like shock treatment/punishment.

    That reminds me, the man that is responsible for all that did refer to it as punishment!
    That guy Mr. Israel, the so-called inventor of the apparatus and treatment system that was in the video, really creeps me out!!!!!!

    Yet obviously people in that kind of severe condition, particularly when there acting-up cannot be allowed to go into the general population even within their own institutional facility, and definitely not go into the general population in society either.

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  5. TopTop #5
    LenInSebastopol
     

    Re: CHILD TORTURE or HELPFUL THERAPY United Nations Calls On Pres Obama To Stop This

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44: View Post

    I would not exactly categorize myself as how you put it, hating “that kind of behavioral modification”.
    I think that in some cases, I don't know what percentage rate (would be of) that particular “behavioral modification” method; if done properly actually does help, I think it's likely that it would work better than the “drug to drool” or letting them pick, bite, or beat themselves to death for some but that kind of therapy obviously cannot work for all of the patients.


    I think most of us would be "hating that kind of behavioral modification" simply because inflicting pain is a terrible thing, no matter what the creature, but the essential question is "what is help mean"? And you are right, some patients won't modify their behavior no matter what, but if "help" means "getting along" in a general population without too much intervention (lazy for the caretakers?) then......it could "help".
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44: View Post

    the people that are working in those places apparently have problems themselves when they resort to continually shocking patients when they could otherwise be restrained and confine them without the continued unsuccessful use of painful torture-like shock treatment/punishment.

    Then the issue becomes "frequently" no? Do we expect one "session" to "cure" everything forever?
    However you are right in your view, but such a place, in itself, would all but destroy the "compassion" button of those that work there.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44: View Post
    That reminds me, the man that is responsible for all that did refer to it as punishment!
    That guy Mr. Israel, the so-called inventor of the apparatus and treatment system that was in the video, really creeps me out!!!!!!
    I guess many here do not like the term "punishment"; especially when applied to those we see as innocently incapable of making decisions, and rightly so, but the response of those who have that "treatment" and maintain socially appropriate behavior demonstrate what we cannot see inside that "black box" of the mind, heart and soul.
    So maybe in the end it is a win-lose situation? And thanks for responding.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-03-2010 at 12:17 PM.
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