Ubuntu Linux

[Valley Oak]

Is anyone here familiar with the Linux OS? I have special interest in the new and enormously successful of Ubuntu distro. If you have experience using it yourself, I would like to have an idea of how you like it or don't like it. I'm thinking of getting a 'linux laptop' and I'm thinking about installing either Ubuntu or Edubuntu (educational version).

If you have first hand experience with any Linux distro I would really like to know what you have to say.

Thanks,

Edward

[Lenny]

I have Unbutu on a dual boot system, with W2K. Both load readily with grub being the boot manager. It is chip friendly, as many linuxes now are. I use the kde desktop environment (www.kde.org), rather than GNOME and have found it good for me, as it is very user friendly, however wordy. The gui thrashes the disk, so if you use the command line your hd may last a bit longer. There are fewer programs for Ubuntu, but what does work has been refined very well. I mean whatever you "do", there's a program for it that runs on this O/S, but not as many progs as SuSE, RedHat, and others. Based on Debian, Ubuntu is very stable, and as stated, made for folks like me, those that don't know. I paid $5.00 and the whole O/S came with Open Office, G-image Viewer, Picassa, scanner program, and everything else that Winduz has, just about.
What are you going to "do" with it? As if you have a specialty in mind, best check out if there is a prog that does that and runs on this.
Like their slogan says, "Software for Human Beings".

[Ocean]

I'm using Ubuntu right now on a single boot system. I'll never go back!!! (well, at least unless I REALLY NEED to for some reason - and then I would actually create a new system, just for that purpose)

I LOVE ubuntu. It works great. Sometimes it freezes. Sometimes the sound doesn't work... could be quarks of my hardware??? (I do have two sound cards installed...)

I plug in a camera, and it works - transfer pictures no problem. I try another one, it works the same. I never installed any "camera software".

I plug in a USB WiFi card, it works.

There are some little quirks that come up. It takes some getting used to.

When the system is misbehaving, I restart it. Sometimes I restart three times in a row, to get it behaving again. It has always come back.

I never worry about viruses.

Programs run good, fast. There are minimal popups or annoying messages. Open Office rocks. Gimp image editor is pretty darn good for a free program. Mozilla Firefox (my browser) is awesome. Rythembox Music Player is a nice music organizer / player. ALL free.

I had to search it out, but I did find a way to get the DVD viewer to play "standard, coded, protected etc" DVD's. It's nice.

I feel liberated - never having to look at one of MS's Stupid, annoying messages again.

Good Luck!
~Ocean

[Braggi]

...

There are some little quirks that come up. It takes some getting used to.

When the system is misbehaving, I restart it. Sometimes I restart three times in a row, to get it behaving again. It has always come back.
...

Sounds horrible. Get a Macintosh. Macs run unix with all the bugs ironed out and a really beautiful GUI polished over 25 years of use by millions.

I'll not be convinced that Windows machines are cheaper nor that Linux are more functional.

The testimony of users supports neither argument.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

A clarification: I wasn't suggesting that Ocean should get a Mac. My comment was for Edward.

I don't think anyone who is happy with their current system should spend money and time getting a different one.

-Jeff

[Lenny]

Well, if you won't be convinced, then that is the end of the dialog!

Let's see: Mac $1500 to $3000. Plus MS Office $700.
Best machine on the planet, bar none!

x86 Box: $100 to $300, plus Ubuntu $5.00 with Open Office!

Or you can go to Computer Recycling on Santa Rosa Ave on a Saturday and get a computer for even cheaper!

Suffering is part of the "human condition", so rebooting will be done, but for the above there is no math to do.

Sounds horrible. Get a Macintosh. Macs run unix with all the bugs ironed out and a really beautiful GUI polished over 25 years of use by millions.

I'll not be convinced that Windows machines are cheaper nor that Linux are more functional.

The testimony of users supports neither argument.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

...

Let's see: Mac $1500 to $3000. Plus MS Office $700.
Best machine on the planet, bar none!

x86 Box: $100 to $300, plus Ubuntu $5.00 with Open Office!
...

OK, that's not a very fair comparison, now is it?

The Macintosh is the best manufactured consumer computer on the planet, as you mentioned. Every year that fact is reiterated by the industry. So you are comparing Apples and something else inferior, and that's the way it is.

I don't use MS Office. Haven't for the last 15 years. No need to. Other programs fill any gap MS Office would leave on my hard drive. In fact, I can put a lot of programs and data in that gap. A whole lot. Open Office runs great on my Mac, BTW. Remember that most Unix programs run just fine on Macs. But then I can run all the Mac specific programs too, many of which come free with the machine; a significant added value. Most people don't need to buy any software to be completely productive with their Macs, and that includes anti-virus software.

Buy the best and cry only once. The rest of the time you can just enjoy it. (Usually.)

-Jeff

[Valley Oak]

We bought our MacBook a year ago and we are very happy with it. It cost us about $1500 because we got a couple of extras with it, which were worth it. We also bought the Apple 'Airport,' which I believe is a router, and this allows us a wireless connection (bluetooth) for our laptop anywhere in or immediately outside our house.

We use an office suite called 'NeoOffice' and we are thrilled with it. It is also free. I can't remember why we didn't do the free download of OpenOffice but I do remember that our machine came with a three month trial of MsOffice and we were freaked about what the hell we were going to do when it expired. We were told about NeoOffice by some Apple techie and have been happy ever since.

Regarding Linux distros, such as Ubuntu, I am always looking for a robust alternative to MicroCrap's products, market manipulations and price gouging. Ubuntu is supposed to be the big new star among Linux OS' and with good reasons, which I won't go into here. But I am dismayed to hear that anyone would have to reboot their system three consecutive times before they can get their machine to work normally again. I'm not interested in buying into something like that.

Nonetheless, there has been a very strong trend for Linux distros in recent years, which is that they are cleaning up the 'kinks' in their systems, a trend that is spearheaded by Ubuntu. There is a major install fest coming up soon where recycled computers with Edubuntu (the academic version of Ubuntu) are being donated to public schools in several Bay Area counties. This is very cool, despite any complications. Strangely enough, one of the big advantages to getting a Linux distro is precisely because it is more stable than Ms Windows and crashes less often. Go figure.

When the day comes that almost all the kinks have been ironed out (and that day appears to be very soon) then I will be in line with another $1500 to buy a Linux laptop with all of the amenities such as a powerful processor, huge HD, 2 or more gigs of RAM, a Bluetooth compatible Wifi card, etc. I will probably also get Kubuntu, which is the expanded or deluxe version of Ubuntu.

Edward

OK, that's not a very fair comparison, now is it?

The Macintosh is the best manufactured consumer computer on the planet, as you mentioned. Every year that fact is reiterated by the industry. So you are comparing Apples and something else inferior, and that's the way it is.

I don't use MS Office. Haven't for the last 15 years. No need to. Other programs fill any gap MS Office would leave on my hard drive. In fact, I can put a lot of programs and data in that gap. A whole lot. Open Office runs great on my Mac, BTW. Remember that most Unix programs run just fine on Macs. But then I can run all the Mac specific programs too, many of which come free with the machine; a significant added value. Most people don't need to buy any software to be completely productive with their Macs, and that includes anti-virus software.

Buy the best and cry only once. The rest of the time you can just enjoy it. (Usually.)

-Jeff

[Lenny]

Dude, some of us can't AFFORD to "buy the best".
The handkerchief cost too much!
As such, there's no sniveling, just facts.
As for "inferior" and "enjoyment", well, those are in the eyes of the beholder, no? So, if the Mac folks and that Mac 'tude keep telling us they are the best, then what can we say? Yes, No? We care deeply?
In the end....it is what is produced. Macs make production easier, true. One simply has to buy that object, and then when a serious upgrade comes out, buy another one of them! Give and take.
PC's have that ability to take out the old part, put in the new!
And, as Marx wrote, we are all about the money, honey.
Oh, and don't the new Macs run on some kind of unix platform?

OK, that's not a very fair comparison, now is it?

The Macintosh is the best manufactured consumer computer on the planet, as you mentioned. Every year that fact is reiterated by the industry. So you are comparing Apples and something else inferior, and that's the way it is.

I don't use MS Office. Haven't for the last 15 years. No need to. Other programs fill any gap MS Office would leave on my hard drive. In fact, I can put a lot of programs and data in that gap. A whole lot. Open Office runs great on my Mac, BTW. Remember that most Unix programs run just fine on Macs. But then I can run all the Mac specific programs too, many of which come free with the machine; a significant added value. Most people don't need to buy any software to be completely productive with their Macs, and that includes anti-virus software.

Buy the best and cry only once. The rest of the time you can just enjoy it. (Usually.)

-Jeff

[Braggi]

Dude, some of us can't AFFORD to "buy the best".
The handkerchief cost too much!
...

Of course, but there are more factors to consider than purchase price. I've talked with people who crowed about what a cheap Windows machine they bought and then spent more than the difference in price on programs and paying a consultant to set it up for them. Then they complained when they had to take training classes so they could actually use it and within the first year had to reformat the hard drive which took out all their data. So, was it a bargain? Certainly not after paying that consultant to reformat and restore the hard drive.

The cost of any appliance must be considered over it's entire life.

All that said, I agree. Some should just buy the cheapest machine they can find assuming they know what to do with it. Now, don't tell anyone, but at Pantheacon I saw an elderly lady using a mini laptop she bought at Costco for about $500 that ran Linux. It was her first computer, her kids set it up for her, and she was using it for email and web surfing. She was so jazzed! I'm really glad to see inexpensive Linux machines in the hands of the public. It's way past due for affordable alternatives to Windows to show up in the retail market. The computer was very cool looking too. I wish I remembered the brand name because I'd share it here. If I find it I will. Maybe somebody else will know it.

...
As for "inferior" and "enjoyment", well, those are in the eyes of the beholder, no? ...

Enjoyment yes, quality no. When it comes to quality, the strength and accuracy of the circuit boards, layout of the machine's internals, and engineering as far as the whole package works together mean a lot that goes beyond the subjective. That's the kind of thing Apple wins awards for every year.

... So, if the Mac folks and that Mac 'tude keep telling us they are the best, then what can we say? Yes, No? We care deeply? ...

Well, it's the industry that tells us they are the best. And then there are the Mac fools, like myself, who wouldn't be interested in a Windows machine no matter what. Linux may be another issue, but I've not spent enough time on one to comment with any authority.

... Macs make production easier, true. ...

Some folks are perfectly happy and productive on Windows machines or other unix boxes. That's fine with me. And I'll hope for them their hard drives never crash. In 24 years of using Macs daily and helping hundreds of other folks, I've never had a hard drive crash or lost any files because of a system problem.

[quote=Lenny;50636]... One simply has to buy that object, and then when a serious upgrade comes out, buy another one of them! Give and take.
PC's have that ability to take out the old part, put in the new!
.../quote]

Interesting you'd comment on that. Macs last twice as long in owner's hands as Windows machines, despite the fact that those other machines are supposedly so easy to upgrade. So you go figure the economics of frequently upgrading hardware, which often means changing all your software too (I'm talking Windows here) and sometimes hard drives, etc. etc., and then still dumping that machine for a new one twice as often as Mac owners do.

The joy of a Macintosh is not having to deal with all that on both the software and hardware end.

...
Oh, and don't the new Macs run on some kind of unix platform?

Yes, Macs run Unix, which means all those Unix programs will run on the Mac if you need them. Linux will run on Macs. Hel, even Windows will run on the Mac if you need the abuse. As you know, there are millions of open source and other free programs out there that run under Unix, and the tweeks and geeks as well as the guys in the white lab coats with pocket protectors can all run their favorite programs right along with all the "iPrograms" that come free with the Mac that most folks use day to day.

Clearly, I'm a Mac nutcase, so take what I say with the proverbial dose of sodium chloride. I think the Mac has always been better than the competition and the differences just keep on growing. I also love the new popular interest in Linux which I'm much happier to see people getting over Windows. Windows makes me crazy in about 15 minutes. I feel abused by the operating system every time I try to use it. It's insulting to the intelligence of the user and every facet of the user interface is a poor imitation of the Mac. What is it with the cursor that jumps all over the screen instead of smoothly tracking like the Mac pointer? I've never understood that. Oh well.

Windows bad; Linux better; Mac my choice.

YMMV,

-Jeff

[Braggi]

... Now, don't tell anyone, but at Pantheacon I saw an elderly lady using a mini laptop she bought at Costco for about $500 that ran Linux.
...

OK, this must be it: Little laptop=

$399!! What a deal. Apple could learn from these folks and I hope they do. Way more connectivity than the new iBook Air and so much cheaper. Of course, it's a toy compared to the Apple, but it's a very useful toy. And it weighs about a pound! So sweet. Of course, it's so cheap because it only has a 7" screen, but if it's useful it's useful.

The keyboard looked too small for my grownup size fingers, but a kid could really make use of it. Two finger typists could also do well. Touch typists might have trouble. I'll try to type on one next time I'm in Costco and report back.

-Jeff

[Valley Oak]

If anyone here is interested in subscribing to the North Bay Linux Users Group they can do so here:
https://nblug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk

It's a great place to ask all of your questions and get them answered quickly and with authority.

Linux is an up and coming alternative to Windoze, with a few bugs to be worked out but aside from that it is almost ready for widespread use among the public, with huge advantages over Microsloth. Linux is not better than Apple; it's just different. And any good alternative to the Ms Empire is worth making an investment in.

Edward

OK, this must be it: Little laptop=

$399!! What a deal. Apple could learn from these folks and I hope they do. Way more connectivity than the new iBook Air and so much cheaper. Of course, it's a toy compared to the Apple, but it's a very useful toy. And it weighs about a pound! So sweet. Of course, it's so cheap because it only has a 7" screen, but if it's useful it's useful.

The keyboard looked too small for my grownup size fingers, but a kid could really make use of it. Two finger typists could also do well. Touch typists might have trouble. I'll try to type on one next time I'm in Costco and report back.

-Jeff

[Lenny]

Can't argue with your experience. Anecdotal evidence aside, the biz world runs on Windows. A lot of folks wish this and that, but the flat truth is simply Windows. Sorry, count me in with the "wishers" but see how far it goes.

[quote=Braggi;50649]Of course, but there are more factors to consider than purchase price. I've talked with people who crowed about what a cheap Windows machine they bought and then spent more than the difference in price on programs and paying a consultant to set it up for them. So, was it a bargain? Certainly not after paying that consultant to reformat and restore the hard drive.
The cost of any appliance must be considered over it's entire life.
All that said, I agree. Some should just buy the cheapest machine they can find assuming they know what to do with it.

Well, there are a ton of folks that learn, for example Word, and they do AMAZING things with that, and that is what serves the world of biz. Or those that learn Access. I knew a guy that learned Access on the Mac, but had a devil of a time porting over to Windows. Question is: did he learn Access or Mac's way, which did little good in when applied to biz. Smart fellow finally got the hang of it, kind of......

Now, don't tell anyone, but at Pantheacon I saw an elderly lady using a mini laptop she bought at Costco for about $500 that ran Linux. It was her first computer, her kids set it up for her, and she was using it for email and web surfing. She was so jazzed! I'm really glad to see inexpensive Linux machines in the hands of the public. It's way past due for affordable alternatives to Windows to show up in the retail market.

For the most part, the computer world is over, or at least saturated. Your LOL was unique. Glad to hear there are dedicated machines so as old folks can use them. When older folks ask me, and I think they are rich enough, I tell them to get a Mac. Zero learning curve. Windows is a bit demanding on the old noodle. It would be great to have a cheaper alternative like that LOL. An x86 machine running linux is the best of both; and in the end what do old folks want: email, photos of the grandkids, and to be able to complain to the powers that be in a letter. They aren't "producing" MP2,3, or 4, nor, for the most part, doing much more than the above.

Enjoyment yes, quality no. When it comes to quality, the strength and accuracy of the circuit boards, layout of the machine's internals, and engineering as far as the whole package works together mean a lot that goes beyond the subjective. That's the kind of thing Apple wins awards for every year.

We seem to have a communication problem here. When you read Consumers Report on, say a car, and you notice the criteria THEY set up is not the same criteria you are looking when considering the purchase of a car? Point being, THEY set the parameters of the survey that they will do well in. Yes, their boards are solid. Not a lot of competition in their manufacturing, which is why THEY can charge an arm and a leg. With x86 there are guys making it everywhere, and market competition brings up the named parts consistently. That's how Mr. Dell or ASUS made their gazillions, etc.

[quote=Lenny;50636]... One simply has to buy that object, and then when a serious upgrade comes out, buy another one of them! Give and take.
PC's have that ability to take out the old part, put in the new!
.../quote]

Interesting you'd comment on that. Macs last twice as long in owner's hands as Windows machines, despite the fact that those other machines are supposedly so easy to upgrade. So you go figure the economics of frequently upgrading hardware, which often means changing all your software too (I'm talking Windows here) and sometimes hard drives, etc. etc., and then still dumping that machine for a new one twice as often as Mac owners do.

I can't comment on the folks you know, but I can testify there are x86/Windows machines that have run like top for years, day and night in some cases. OK, some Windows O/S have to be rebooted every 49 days, bu then again, we ain't in heaven. I've personally had various machines that I've built and passed on that are still running, with the occasional component dying after long use, and 10 minutes later it is up and running again, while not costing an arm and a leg due to proprietary matters.

The joy of a Macintosh is not having to deal with all that on both the software and hardware end.
Yes, Macs run Unix, which means all those Unix programs will run on the Mac if you need them. Linux will run on Macs. Hel, even Windows will run on the Mac if you need the abuse. As you know, there are millions of open source and other free programs out there that run under Unix, and the tweeks and geeks as well as the guys in the white lab coats with pocket protectors can all run their favorite programs right along with all the "iPrograms" that come free with the Mac that most folks use day to day.
Clearly, I'm a Mac nutcase, so take what I say with the proverbial dose of sodium chloride. I think the Mac has always been better than the competition and the differences just keep on growing. I also love the new popular interest in Linux which I'm much happier to see people getting over Windows. Windows makes me crazy in about 15 minutes. I feel abused by the operating system every time I try to use it. It's insulting to the intelligence of the user and every facet of the user interface is a poor imitation of the Mac. What is it with the cursor that jumps all over the screen instead of smoothly tracking like the Mac pointer? I've never understood that. Oh well.
Windows bad; Linux better; Mac my choice.

Well, it is good you are happy. And yes, Windows does challenge folks when and where they don't want to be challenged. But then, that is the way of the world.
And folks are waking up to alternatives, which is good and right, but we all simply can't afford Macs, even though it is the best, and will continue to be as long as they hold the monopoly on their systems. Too bad about that.

[Valley Oak]

Interested in a Linux box?

Here is a 'local' company, based in the East Bay (not Dell or another multinational), which is small and independent from the big boys. It is called, 'Zareason' and this is their website:
https://www.zareason.com

Zareason builds computers to your specs with any version of a Linux OS that you ask for. The hardware is top quality, better than the big names such as HP, Gateway, Dell, etc.

A computer built from scratch to your specific needs is the best way to go. If there are any issues to be dealt with then this company will iron them all out from the very beginning, before you get your product. And it is guaranteed.

Edward