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  1. TopTop #1
    Sasu's Avatar
    Sasu
     

    No evidence of emf health effects?

    When it comes to EMF issues, one of the most frequently heard phrases is "There is no evidence to support EMFs having health effects" or simply "There is no conclusive evidence".

    There is an enormous body of evidence out there, but public and even academic awareness seems to be very poor.

    https://www.powerwatch.org.uk/studies.asp

    Considering the wireless proponents plan (sonic's city wide wi-fi in Sebastopol and Hilary Clinton's smart grid, are two examples) is to saturate the enviornment with wireless radiation, it is imperative we wake up from the denial of "technology has no health effects" syndrome.

    The following is a compilation of web sites that address electropollution and electrical sensitivity.

    www.bioinitiative.org
    https://www.energyfields.org/pdfs/Wi...as-Science.pdf
    www.energyfields.org
    https://www.radiationresearch.org/
    https://www.antennafreeunion.org/
    https://www.starweave.com/freiburger/
    www.powerwatch.org.uk
    www.safewireless.org
    https://www.emrpolicy.org/
    https://www.emrnetwork.org/
    https://www.c-a-r-e.org/
    https://www.feb.se/index_int.htm
    https://www.ideaireland.org/emr.htm
    www.LifeEnergies.com
    www.mastsanity.org

    https://www.silcom.com/~sage/emf/
    www.emfacts.com
    www.microwavenews.com
    www.wave-guide.org/
    www.neilcherry.com
    https://www.hese-project.org/hese-uk/en/niemr/news.php
    https://policies.lakeheadu.ca/policy.php?pid=178
    https://www.powerwatch.org.uk/wifi.asp
    https://www.electrosensitivity.org.uk/
    https://www.dhs.ca.gov/ehib/emf/Risk.../riskeval.html
    https://www.planetthrive.com/
    https://www.electrical-sensitivity.info/CausesOfES.html
    https://www.ahappyhabitat.com/cars.html
    https://www.proliberty.com/observer/20070910.htm
    https://www.stopumts.nl/english.php/
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...2004Sep19.html
    https://tinyurl.com/y3r6t6
    www.emfcenter.com
    https://www.townsendletter.com/July2007/wifi0707.htm
    https://www.es-uk.info/
    https://www.safelivingtechnologies.c...afety_Tips.htm
    https://www.cogreslab.co.uk/computers.asp
    wwwhealthconcerns.org Report health challenges anonymously
    www.mast-victims.org/
    Click on “resources” for radio interviews with experts, and “Tell your Story”
    www.cprnews.com
    Cell Phone Radiation Worldwide News Website
    www.emr.co.nz
    New Zealand Electromagnetic Radiation Web site
    Electrical Pollution.com
    Stetzer Electric
    Stray Voltage (Farm & human health articles from The LaCrosse Tribune)

    Safe Goeke Net ( The Save Animals From Electricity website)

    Mike Holt ( Articles about "stray voltage")

    EMF Guru (Roy Beaver's site)

    EMF BioEffects
    National Foundation for Alternative Medicine (National Foundation for Alternative Medicine. Search for electrical pollution)

    Buegerwelle (body science)

    Bio-electromagnetics (resources)

    Electro-sensitivity

    EMF Carcinogenicity
    Bridlewood/ (EMF information service)
    Goldsworth's Residents Against Masts

    https://www.mobile-research.ethz.ch/english/index_e.htm
    https://www.iaff.org/hs/Facts/CellTowerFinal.asp
    https://www.icems.eu/docs/BeneventoResolution.pdf
    https://www.mindfully.org/Technology...enberg1997.htm
    https://www.wi-fiplanet.com/columns/article.php/3095831
    https://www.lifeenergies.com/polluti.../emfip1-13.htm
    https://www.hese-project.org/hese-uk...resonance1.php
    https://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/...e_machines.htm
    https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/t...8rehab.html?hphttps://www.mindfully.org/Technology...-EMF1jun04.htm
    https://www.emfpollution.com/
    https://www.electrical-sensitivity.i...lingAids7.html
    https://www.yourownhealthandfitness.org/
    https://www.emfacts.com/weblog/?p=329
    https://www.feb.se/NEWS/news2004.html#WHO-BW20041025
    https://bewisepolarize.com/radiation%20harmful.htm
    https://www.smartgridnews.com/artman...ticle_309.html
    https://www.next-up.org/Newsoftheworld/Affset2007.php#1
    https://www.antennasearch.com/

    https://www.buergerwelle.de/pdf/public_health_emf.pdfhttps://www.stopumts.nl/english.php/

    https://infoventures.com/emf/top/spectrum.html
    https://www.mast-victims.org/forum/i...rum=1&topic=76
    https://www.emfacts.com/weblog/?cat=29
    https://lists.webjunction.org/wjlist...ch/097209.html
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...n_page_id=1879
    https://www.shareguide.com/electro.html
    https://ehso.com/ehshome/emf.htm
    https://www.mercola.com/article/emf/emf_dangers.htm
    https://www.mercola.com/1998/archive...n_hormones.htm
    https://www.tldp.com/issue/179/emf179.htm
    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/30499.php
    https://www.emfpollution.com/general...-wave-sickness
    https://www.silencingthefields.com/emf-health.html
    https://members.aol.com/gotemf/emf/kids.htm
    https://members.aol.com/gotemf/group/
    https://www.goodhealthinfo.net/radia...ave_packet.pdf
    https://infoventures.com/emf/top/others-i.html
    https://www.fcc.gov/oet/rfsafety/
    https://www.spinspace.com/biophysics/emfsens.htm
    https://www.freewebs.com/eclectives/monitorpain.htm
    https://www.mercola.com/forms/public_exposure.htm
    https://www.latitudes.org/articles/e....html#Consumer
    https://www.blockemf.com/?engine=adwords!1895&keyword=%28emf+shielding%29&match_type=&gclid=CLG3pojtzokCFQRDYwodyRxxRQ
    https://www.fengshuinetwork.net/topi...lth_status.htm
    https://home.swipnet.se/allez/Eng/Woodp.htm
    https://www.bewisepolarize.com/radiation%20harmful.htm
    https://www.diamondhead.net/melapoll.htm
    https://www.ehso.com/ehshome/emf.htm#dangerous
    https://www.detox.org/emf.html
    https://policies.lakeheadu.ca/policy.php?pid=178
    https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...4975#post44975
    https://www.sonomawest.com/articles/...inions/op5.txt
    https://nayer.blogspot.com/2008/01/c...-are-real.html
    https://www.city-data.com/forum/detr...h-concern.html
    https://www.next-up.org/pages/Justice.php#1

    https://www.electrical-sensitivity.i...lingAids2.html
    https://www.healthyhomeplans.com/
    https://www.emfservices.com/index.htm
    https://www.energyfields.org/impacts/chellis.html
    https://omega.twoday.net/stories/3584203/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRXe1DeDvhk
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  2. TopTop #2
    Braggi's Avatar
    Braggi
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sasu: View Post
    When it comes to EMF issues, one of the most frequently heard phrases is "There is no evidence to support EMFs having health effects" or simply "There is no conclusive evidence".

    There is an enormous body of evidence out there, but public and even academic awareness seems to be very poor.
    ...
    Sasu, do you actually read any of this stuff you post? These links are all to the same stuff you've been posting and none of it is conclusive except to show there's nothing to worry about. Allow me to quote from the first abstract you link to: "For the entire group, no increased risk of PGTs was observed for ever having been a regular cellular phone user..."

    Got that? No increased risk. Keep reading. There are lots of in vitro studies, studies on tomatoes (?!?!), studies on rats (that have absolutely NO bearing on human use), and on and on. I've read dozens of the "studies" you've linked to, but it doesn't look like you've read them. If you had, you wouldn't be so upset.

    Relax, enjoy the benefits of modern living. Realize the EMF output from the computer you sit in front of is hundreds of times more dense than any wi-fi system under discussion. Realize that in order to live in a city you WILL be exposed to EMF, along with everyone else. Realize the negative health effects are largely or totally psycho somatic. That's not a bad thing, because it means that getting your mind right will protect you from the ill effects. Now, doesn't that feel better?

    There was an "enormous body of evidence" collected by lawyers wanting to sue over the harmful effects of silicon breast implants. Enormous! Thing is, it was all wrong. It was said that breast implants caused immune diseases like lupus. When large (no pun intended) studies were done covering thousands of women with implants, it was discovered the group with implants had fewer cases of such diseases than was standard in the population at large. So were breast implants protecting women from these diseases?

    Did you read that recent cell phone study I posted? It covered hundreds of thousands of users and it found lower rates of cancer among cell phone users. Does that mean cell phone use protects you from cancer?

    The links you posted do not make a case against wi fi.

    If you want to protect yourself from EMF you'll have to move into a cave because it's everywhere. Thing is, it hasn't been shown to be harmful.

    -Jeff
    Last edited by Braggi; 01-13-2008 at 08:55 AM.
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  3. TopTop #3
    alanora's Avatar
    alanora
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    Around 24 years ago I lived next to the sea-bee base in Oxnard, Port Hueneme(sp). At that time they were experimenting with low and mid frequency sonar. They denied any health effects despite complaints of illness on those dates by the residents of silver strand beach. They are currently regulating the effects on whales and other sea life and found it disruptive to direction finding causing beached whales and other oddness. I think the determination has to do with how far out whales must be to employ the sonar. Don't I recall sound waves carrying further in liquid? That was 24 years ago and i recently ran across something about attempts to regulate usage! Whales are mammals too. Mindy
    Last edited by alanora; 01-15-2008 at 09:39 AM. Reason: added name
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  4. TopTop #4
    Braggi's Avatar
    Braggi
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    Mindy, you do realize that sonar is based on sound waves not EMFs (Electro Magnetic Fields)?

    I'm against large naval sonar systems as well. But these are actually documented to cause harm.

    -Jeff
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  5. TopTop #5
    alanora's Avatar
    alanora
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    I am aware that sonar and emf are of very different natures. The commonality to which I point may be the twenty or so years before adverse effects are discovered, acknowledged/regulated and/or the documentation of such begin to surface, and the fringe lunatics who complain are found to have been correct after all. ooops.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Braggi: View Post
    Mindy, you do realize that sonar is based on sound waves not EMFs (Electro Magnetic Fields)?

    I'm against large naval sonar systems as well. But these are actually documented to cause harm.

    -Jeff
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  6. TopTop #6
    Sasu's Avatar
    Sasu
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    Sonar is an emf device.

    Active sonar creates a pulse of sound, often called a "ping", and then listens for reflections (echo) of the pulse. This pulse of sound is generally created electronically using a Sonar Projector consisting of a signal generator, power amplifier and electro-acoustic transducer/array, possibly with a beamformer.
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  7. TopTop #7
    Braggi's Avatar
    Braggi
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by alanora: View Post
    I am aware that sonar and emf are of very different natures. The commonality to which I point may be the twenty or so years before adverse effects are discovered, acknowledged/regulated and/or the documentation of such begin to surface, and the fringe lunatics who complain are found to have been correct after all. ooops.

    There is no commonality, however. The huge sonar system(s) you refer to were known to be harmful long before they were built. To a whale it's like putting your head inside a huge bell and having someone hit it with a sledgehammer. It's going to damage your hearing and your brain. That's pretty easy to understand. It was no fringe element complaining about that. It was mainstream science.

    The "fringe lunatics" complaining about EMF are SELLING garbage for hundreds or thousands of dollars to "protect" you from a harm that hasn't been shown to exist. I hope you can see the massive difference.

    -Jeff
    Last edited by Braggi; 01-15-2008 at 08:31 AM.
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  8. TopTop #8
    Braggi's Avatar
    Braggi
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sasu: View Post
    Sonar is an emf device. ...

    Oh my. According to that definition talking with another person will expose you to emf radiation. Does that mean we should stop talking to our children for fear we'll irradiate them? Does that mean we should stop listening to live acoustic music for the same reason? Should we plug our ears so no sound waves hit our eardrums? Where do we stop? Certainly nobody should listen to a stereo because they use they same methods as sonar to produce sound.

    Sasu, please put your fear aside and read some of those websites you posted with an open mind. You can easily see how you have misread the reality of the situation.

    I ask you again, have you actually read any of those sites you posted? Have you actually looked at the details of the studies quoted? If so, please post some actual facts that we can discuss. I don't think you have mentioned any.

    -Jeff
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  9. TopTop #9
    Sasu's Avatar
    Sasu
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    You are refuting the work of world class researchers and scientists and considering yourself the better expert on this issue? There are so many people voluteering countless hours to help educate the public, something the WHO recommends local governments to do!

    Yes there are a few companies selling pendants and filters. THis is a small part and they are educating as well as profiting. It is an example of public awareness and concern.

    Your comparing sonar to a stereo? You can do better than that!

    Are you interested in learning here or are you just bored out there living off the grid?

    What do think? Are you ready to read anything I've posted or do you just want to continue to throw spitballs?
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  10. TopTop #10
    Braggi's Avatar
    Braggi
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sasu: View Post
    ... a signal generator, power amplifier and electro-acoustic transducer/array ...
    That pretty clearly describes a stereo.

    -Jeff
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  11. TopTop #11
    Braggi's Avatar
    Braggi
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sasu: View Post
    ...

    Are you interested in learning here or are you just bored out there living off the grid?

    What do think? Are you ready to read anything I've posted ...?
    I have been reading what you've posted. They just don't add up to what you're saying that's why I've asked you for specifics. I've read dozens of the websites and dozens of the studies. Thing is, it doesn't appear that you have read any of them, or your conclusions would be different.

    Please post some specifics, not just the links, so we have something to discuss.

    -Jeff
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  12. TopTop #12
    alanora's Avatar
    alanora
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    I do not endorse buying garbage to protect self from non-existent threats. I endorse caution and very limited use when possible and waiting until the results are in to assess personal risk/reward ratio. (Spoken by a non-techie who does not generally get fired-up about the latest electronic tool) I understand. We felt like a lunatic fringe when complaining about the health effects to humans living there...of course the pesticide dumping was charming as well.......

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Braggi: View Post
    There is no commonality, however. The huge sonar system(s) you refer to were known to be harmful long before they were built. To a whale it's like putting your head inside a huge bell and having someone hit it with a sledgehammer. It's going to damage your hearing and your brain. That's pretty easy to understand. It was no fringe element complaining about that. It was mainstream science.

    The "fringe lunatics" complaining about EMF are SELLING garbage for hundreds or thousands of dollars to "protect" you from a harm that hasn't been shown to exist. I hope you can see the massive difference.

    -Jeff
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  13. TopTop #13
    alanora's Avatar
    alanora
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by alanora: View Post
    I do not endorse buying garbage to protect self from non-existent threats. I endorse caution and very limited use when possible and waiting until the results are in to assess personal risk/reward ratio. (Spoken by a non-techie who does not generally get fired-up about the latest electronic tool) I understand. We felt like a lunatic fringe when complaining about the health effects to humans living there...of course the pesticide dumping was charming as well.......
    Nice if said garbage really worked and I was fortunate enough to have been in on the ground floor and had made my millions while serving the highest good...dream on....
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  14. TopTop #14
    don's Avatar
    don
    Founding Member

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    Hey Sasu

    Jeff's comparison is essentially correct. Sonar is just an underwater low frequency audible sound system that also measures the amount of time it takes for the sound to be reflected back to the source.

    Cheers
    don

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sasu: View Post
    Your comparing sonar to a stereo? You can do better than that!

    Are you interested in learning here or are you just bored out there living off the grid?

    What do think? Are you ready to read anything I've posted or do you just want to continue to throw spitballs?
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  15. TopTop #15
    Sasu's Avatar
    Sasu
     

    Re: No evidence of emf health effects?

    The following article is from today's The Independent in the UK:

    https://news.independent.co.uk/sci_t...cle3353768.ece

    Mobile phone radiation wrecks your sleep

    Phone makers' own scientists discover that bedtime use can lead to
    headaches, confusion and depression

    By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor
    Published: 20 January 2008

    Radiation from mobile phones delays and reduces sleep, and causes headaches
    and confusion, according to a new study.

    The research, sponsored by the mobile phone companies themselves, shows that
    using the handsets before bed causes people to take longer to reach the
    deeper stages of sleep and to spend less time in them, interfering with the
    body's ability to repair damage suffered during the day.

    The findings are especially alarming for children and teenagers, most of
    whom - surveys suggest - use their phones late at night and who especially
    need sleep. Their failure to get enough can lead to mood and personality
    changes, ADHD-like symptoms, depression, lack of concentration and poor
    academic performance.

    The study - carried out by scientists from the blue-chip Karolinska
    Institute and Uppsala University in Sweden and from Wayne State University
    in Michigan, USA - is thought to be the most comprehensive of its kind.

    Published by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Progress in
    Electromagnetics Research Symposium and funded by the Mobile Manufacturers
    Forum, representing the main handset companies, it has caused serious
    concern among top sleep experts, one of whom said that there was now "more
    than sufficient evidence" to show that the radiation "affects deep sleep".

    The scientists studied 35 men and 36 women aged between 18 and 45. Some were
    exposed to radiation that exactly mimicked what is received when using
    mobile phones; others were placed in precisely the same conditions, but
    given only "sham" exposure, receiving no radiation at all.

    The people who had received the radiation took longer to enter the first of
    the deeper stages of sleep, and spent less time in the deepest one. The
    scientists concluded: "The study indicates that during laboratory exposure
    to 884 MHz wireless signals components of sleep believed to be important for
    recovery from daily wear and tear are adversely affected."

    The embarrassed Mobile Manufacturers Forum played down the results,
    insisting - at apparent variance with this published conclusion - that its
    "results were inconclusive" and that "the researchers did not claim that
    exposure caused sleep disturbance".

    But Professor Bengt Arnetz, who led the study, says: "We did find an effect
    from mobile phones from exposure scenarios that were realistic. This
    suggests that they have measurable effects on the brain."

    He believes that the radiation may activate the brain's stress system,
    "making people more alert and more focused, and decreasing their ability to
    wind down and fall asleep".

    About half of the people studied believed themselves to be
    "electrosensitive", reporting symptoms such as headaches and impaired
    cognitive function from mobile phone use. But they proved to be unable to
    tell if they had been exposed to the radiation in the test.

    This strengthens the conclusion of the study, as it disposes of any
    suggestion that knowledge of exposure influenced sleeping patterns. Even
    more significantly, it throws into doubt the relevance of studies the
    industry relies on to maintain that the radiation has no measurable effects.

    A series of them - most notably a recent highly publicised study at Essex
    University - have similarly found that people claiming to be
    electrosensitive could not distinguish when the radiation was turned on in
    laboratory conditions, suggesting that they were not affected.

    Critics have attacked the studies' methodology, but the new findings deal
    them a serious blow. For they show that the radiation did have an effect,
    even though people could not tell when they were exposed.

    It also complements other recent research. A massive study, following 1,656
    Belgian teenagers for a year, found most of them used their phones after
    going to bed. It concluded that those who did this once a week were more
    than three times - and those who used them more often more than five times -
    as likely to be "very tired".

    Dr Chris Idzikowski, the director of the Edinburgh Sleep Centre, says:
    "There is now more than sufficient evidence, from a large number of
    reputable investigators who are finding that mobile phone exposure an hour
    before sleep adversely affects deep sleep."

    Dr William Kohler of the Florida Sleep Institute added: "Anything that
    disrupts the integrity of your sleep will potentially have adverse
    consequences in functioning during the day, such as grouchiness, difficulty
    concentrating, and in children hyperactivity and behaviour problems."

    David Schick, the chief executive of Exradia, which manufactures protective
    devices against the radiation, called on ministers to conduct "a formal
    public inquiry" into the effects of mobile phones.
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  16. TopTop #16
    Sasu's Avatar
    Sasu
     

    EMF/ RF educational site

    This is a very comprehensive site where you can learn a lot about electrical pollution and why we are opposing city wide wi-fi.

    https://www.safelivingtechnologies.ca/
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