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Thread: New candidate?
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  1. TopTop #1
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    New candidate?

    June 26, 2007
    Nader’s Ego Enters 2008 Race


    Massive Ego Fills Madison Square Garden


    The field of presidential candidates got a little more crowded today as the massive ego of consumer activist Ralph Nader announced that it was entering the 2008 race.

    For its historic announcement, Mr. Nader’s ego chose New York’s Madison Square Garden, the only venue available large enough to contain the candidate’s bloated self-esteem.

    After being loaded into the Garden’s freight elevator and wheeled out onto the stage, Mr. Nader’s ego said the words that its faithful had been waiting to hear.

    “This gigantic ego has sat on the sidelines long enough and watched others’ egos get all of the attention!” the candidate’s ego roared.

    Mr. Nader’s ego went on to enumerate the reasons for its latest candidacy, telling the audience, “I want to see an America where I am on campaign buttons, banners, and Larry King Live.”

    His ego added that it hoped to fill what it saw as a void in the 2008 campaign: “There is no other narcissistic whackjob in the race, unless you count Kucinich.”

    The consumer activist’s bloated ego received rave reviews from those in attendance, many of whom had fond memories of Mr. Nader’s successful bid to wreck the 2000 presidential race.

    “It was great to see that ego back on stage,” said Nader supporter Ralph Nader, 73. “Finally, a candidate who speaks for me.”

    Others echoed that sentiment, including Nader supporter Ralph Nader, 73: “I couldn’t believe how handsome he was.”

    Elsewhere, in a serious setback for former Florida governor Jeb Bush, new research finds that the eldest children in families tend to have higher I.Q.’s than their younger siblings.


    www.borowitzreport.com
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  2. TopTop #2
    Magick's Avatar
    Magick
     

    Re: New candidate?

    Dear Sara, Ralph Nader has done more for consumer rights then probably any single individual ever.
    He has ceaslessly, and with inteligent articulation, laid out the many lies and manipulations of the two main parties.
    Both of those parties are manipulated by the corporate CEOs to do their bidding. Both parties have been complicit in the war, the stripping of our constitiuional rights and the tragic support of torture by our gov't.
    Everyone has an ego and a healthy and robust one is needed to stand in the fire.
    I would think that discussing issues and track records would be the most productive way to consider the actions of public figures.
    Yours in truth, Magick
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  3. TopTop #3
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: New candidate?

    :veryfunny:

    Dear Magick: It was a joke! I totally agree with you about him; heck, I was one of the people who "gave the election" to the GOP by voting for him. He may be just a tad over the line towards too much ego, but I'd vote for him again if I could.

    Sara



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Magick: View Post
    Dear Sara, Ralph Nader has done more for consumer rights then probably any single individual ever.
    He has ceaslessly, and with inteligent articulation, laid out the many lies and manipulations of the two main parties.
    Both of those parties are manipulated by the corporate CEOs to do their bidding. Both parties have been complicit in the war, the stripping of our constitiuional rights and the tragic support of torture by our gov't.
    Everyone has an ego and a healthy and robust one is needed to stand in the fire.
    I would think that discussing issues and track records would be the most productive way to consider the actions of public figures.
    Yours in truth, Magick
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  4. TopTop #4
    Tars's Avatar
    Tars
     

    Re: New candidate?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sara S: View Post
    Ralph Nader announced that it was entering the 2008 race.
    Whatever.
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  5. TopTop #5
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: New candidate?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sara S: View Post
    ...It was a joke! I totally agree with you about him; heck, I was one of the people who "gave the election" to the GOP by voting for him. He may be just a tad over the line towards too much ego...
    Sara

    Glad to hear it was just a joke; that wasn't immediately apparent given the political atmosphere of Nader-bashing, especially from the numerous dupes of the corrupt Democratic Party. (Remember how they promised to get us out of the war if we'd elect them? Haaaaaaaahahahahahahaha! And they won't even impeach one of the most blatantly corrupt world leaders ever known! And campaign funding reform? Forget it, suckers!).

    But I must take you to task on the ego issue. For a couple of decades, election after election, Nader refused to run for office even though millions were begging him to do so. He insisted on letting the Democratic Party take care of the needed reforms. Are these the actions of an ego-tripper? Certainly not.

    Only after the Demos showed again and again and again that they had no interest in real reform (except for a couple of hot-button issues they exploit for votes, such as abortion) did Nader reluctantly throw his hat into the ring. He keeps running, even though he knows he hasn't a snowball's chance of winning, to pull the Demos platform a little more to the left and to air important issues that are ignored by the big 2 parties.

    Even if we assumed he has an enormous ego, he's one of the few people around who have earned the right to a big ego; he's done more good for the country (and the world) than virtually anyone and, if by some miracle he got the Presidential opportunity, would do more good than all previous sleazeball US Presidents combined.

    I recommend the documentary about Nader, "An Unreasonable Man", to anyone interested in the facts about a fascinating human being.

    Dixon
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  6. TopTop #6
    lynn
    Guest

    Re: New candidate?

    I liked that article...Thought it was pretty funny and right on...At this point, his running is becoming ridiculous...

    Just remember....Whenever you've Voted for Nader...Karl Rove has had a giant smile on his face and absolutely loved ya' for doing so...
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  7. TopTop #7
    "Mad" Miles
     

    Nader as Candidate

    Sigh,

    OK,

    one more time:

    Ralph Nader DID NOT CAUSE George Bush to be elected in 2000. The numbers do not support that. Logic does not support it. Those who claim it are either unconsciously buying into the lie fabricated by dissapointed Democrats who can't face themselves in the mirror, or consciously perpetuating that lie.

    First, Al Gore lost the election (or allowed it to be stolen by Bush, or won it but had it denied, characterize it as you will), his campaign sucked, he sucked (He acted like a wooden puppet on valium and qualudes, "I have a Lockbox...") and when he didn't fight for a full recount in ALL of Florida he showed how cowardly he really was.

    Of course, he and his closest advisors didn't want to upset the apple cart, so they swallowed the coup carried out by the conservative Reagan/Bush appointed majority on the Supreme Court and shut up about the election crimes in Florida and elsewhere.

    When the thin skin covering the rotting ball of maggots (eating the corpse of the Constitution and the ideals of democracy) that is the American (U.S.) political reality, you'll often see the supposed opponents in our "Partay" system band together to keep the illusion of democracy alive. That's probably the main reason Gore folded in the clinch.

    Back to why Nader didn't "cause" Gore to lose.

    Almost as many Republicans as Democrats voted for Nader in 2000, many Independents voted for Nader. The exit polls showed this.

    To accuse Nader of "losing" the election for Gore, one requires several untenable assumptions. That if Nader hadn't run, the votes he got would have all gone to Gore. This just isn't true.

    I for one certainly wouldn't have voted for him, I would have cast my protest vote for someone or something else.

    (Protest partly against the sellout of the constituencies of the Democratic Party; Labor, Non-White People, Women, the Environment, etc. by the corporate dominated leadership of the party. Just look up "Democratic Leadership Council" learn their history. It's all there for anyone who cares to know.)

    One must also assume that everyone who voted for Nader would have voted if he hadn't run. Given that much of his support, and the existence of the Green Party, was/is based on a sober evaluation of the crisis in American (U.S.) political, social, economic, environmental life, and that both the Democratic and Republican parties serve primarily and almost exclusively the interests of corporate capital, why would Nader's supporters choose to vote for Gore in the absence of an alternative?

    So, I'm sure those of you who have convinced yourselves that Nader "spoiled" the election are sincere in your belief, but I suggest you reexamine that belief, do some research, and think again.

    So far, no one has come up with any solid evidence that the votes for Nader would have gone to Gore if Nader hadn't been running, and that those votes would have made the difference for Gore.

    Don't you think Carl Rove has more tricks up his sleeve to deny votes to poor black people than he's already revealed?

    How then does Ralph Nader play into that Republican strategy? As I recall, Nader wasn't running in 2004, although some people voted for him anyway, and Ohio still had a huge scandal with regard to vote denials in the 'hood.

    And who pushed for the investigation into that scandal? The Democratic Party? NO! The Green Party and our presidential candidate David Cobb.



    As for Ralph's ego. He certainly has one. He takes three to five hours to say what he could easily say in one and a half. But what he has to say is solid, well-based in fact, and surgically precise as to the ills of our corporate dominated political and economic culture.

    If you don't like the message, but can't refute it, it's common to shoot the messenger. I suspect this is one source of the resentment directed at Nader.

    Don't get me wrong, as stated in the second paragraph above, I don't think he's perfect. Certainly the coy way he's played with the Green Party (the political party of which I have been a proud, yet often exasperated and frustrated, member since 1987) has caused me to lose confidence in and regard for him. But what he's done for consumer safety and corporate gadflying is nonpareil. He's one cool dude, if you can stand his stem-winding speeches and unwillingness to commit politically.

    As for his role in getting Bush elected, let it go. It's not true. Until you can prove it with specific details and supporting facts, it's just plain simple calumny.

    By the way, this "debate" was actively and ably engaged over a year ago on this board. It's all under "Green Party vs. Dems" in the archive. Read it and weep.

    This thread was initiated by a joke. It was obviously a joke if one read it. Perhaps it was a bit mean-spirited, but I found it funny. That it prompted the repeat of the big Demo lie, "Ralph stole our victory out from under us!" is both funny, and all too sad.

    "Mad" Miles


    "Embrace the Absurdity, Before the Absurdity Embraces You!"

    (Yeah, I'm quoting myself again! Ya wanna talk EGO....)

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  8. TopTop #8
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: New candidate?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by lynn: View Post
    Just remember....Whenever you've Voted for Nader...Karl Rove has had a giant smile on his face and absolutely loved ya' for doing so...
    And while you're remembering that, remember this: Whenever you've voted for corrupt bigwig Democrap politicos like Gore, Kerry, either Clinton, etc....the planet-raping, war-mongering ruling class fatcats who fund BOTH the Democratic and Republican parties have had giant smiles on their faces and absolutely loved ya for doing so...

    Dixon
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  9. TopTop #9
    Tars's Avatar
    Tars
     

    Re: Nader as Candidate

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Mad Miles: View Post
    Ralph Nader DID NOT CAUSE George Bush to be elected in 2000. The numbers do not support that.
    I happened to see an op-ed piece in the latest Newsweek that reminded me of this thread, Now, I am not a George Will fan. He's way WAY too lop-sided conservative for my sensibilities. But I do respect him as a collector of historical fact. He's one of the best opinion people around, specifically because he quintuple-checks his facts. He has problems only with what he most-often deduces from those facts.

    Disclaimer: I don't care about Nader. He seems like a nice well-intentioned public figure to me. He never had a kitten's chance in a dog kennel of ever being president, not this side of the Twilight Zone.

    In the piece, "Bloomberg To The Rescue?" Will characterized Nader's impact on the 2000 election:

    "The most consequential American third-party candidate was Ralph Nader in 2000. But for his 97,488 votes in Florida, which George W. Bush won by 537 votes, Al Gore probably would be finishing his second term."

    OK, rant away...
    Last edited by Tars; 07-02-2007 at 02:08 PM.
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  10. TopTop #10
    "Mad" Miles
     

    Re: Nader as Candidate

    Tars,

    You miss the point, read again. For George Will to be right (and RIGHT-WING he always is!) one has to assume that the votes for Nader would have gone to Gore, if Nader had not been in the race.

    This assumption is highly flawed, see my previous screed (and the one on this subject before that, and the one before that, and the one...).

    The combined newpaper editors unofficial recount showed that Gore won in Florida, but the Supremes stopped the official recount. (And Al didn't call for a full recount for the state, only Dade and a few other counties where the vote denial of poor Black people was so obvious it couldn't be ignored.)

    What do the Georgy boys say to that? George Will is a consistent apologist for the Big Boys who call the shots, that's one, of many reasons I don't read him, or Michael Friedman, or a whole host of other paid apologists for "Da System". If I want opposing views to my own, I just read the PD's local editorials and Letters to the Editor. Or I talk to a real person in a bar, pub or at work. And the letter writers and conversationalists do it for free! So I don't have to question their goals and hidden interests as much.


    Second, Nader was not in the race in 2000 to win the Presidency, no one in their clear and rational mind thought that. (Note my conscious avoidance of the term "right".)

    The reason that I, and thousands of other Green Party activists, organized for him was to get at least 15% so we could get Federal Matching Funds to build a real Green Party apparatus for the next time(s) around.

    We didn't get it, huge dissapointment, the fallout is still weakening us.


    Re: an earlier comment about Nader accepting "Republican" donations.

    Who gives a S&(# ?

    It's what he does with the donations, whatever the source, that matters. I don't worry so much about people's motives, I'm not a mind reader. I do question their clear and perceivable actions.

    It is action that changes the direction of history, ideas are just a necessary precursor to effective and positive action. I'm not saying motives don't matter, but they're secondary to real behavior "in the world".

    Of course it's way more complicated than binary oppositional thinking can describe or grasp. I'm just using it for theoretical shorthand here.


    Ho Hum,

    Libby's sentence was commuted by his mentor / Sugar Daddy / Supreme Leader today.

    The good soldier who fell on his sword to protect his bosses gets away with it. Now for that nice cushy and very well remunerated corporate executive position.

    And we sit here typing away, bickering (albeit consciously and politely for the most part) while the planet dissolves into a Retro-Cretacious swamp.

    Anybody know any good permaculture strategies for millions of square miles of permafrostless tundra and taiga? I'd like to know how to farm in thirty to sixty feet of mud.

    It's going to become essential when the equatorial regions are so hot that no one can survive there, even if you can handle the malarial mosquitos the size of bees and the hurricanes, typhoons and tsunamis. (Hey, I just threw the latter in for sheer scare value!)

    Better get on that sustainable bog agriculture solution quick!

    Cheers,

    "Mad" Miles


    P.S. Note the attached. If you want regular political posts that contain real and serious information, plus calls and plans for action, check out the lists I moderate, plus there's sonomaculture which is for the really fun stuff!

    Except I find politics fun sometimes as well, I wish more people did, we might get the numbers in the streets that I've always thought were the essential element to any real needed change.

    And for a combo of both (politics and fun) see you at the Revolutionary Tea Party where we can kibbitz and debate the evening away to our hearts content, when we're not DANCING!!!!

    https://www.seb.org/rev.jpg


    Last edited by "Mad" Miles; 07-02-2007 at 07:53 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  11. TopTop #11
    Tars's Avatar
    Tars
     

    Re: Nader as Candidate

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Mad Miles: View Post
    For George Will to be right (and RIGHT-WING he always is!) one has to assume that the votes for Nader would have gone to Gore, if Nader had not been in the race.

    This assumption is highly flawed,
    Sorry, don't see that his "assumption is highly flawed". He quotes numbers, you quote your own opinion, You'd said previously that

    "The numbers do not support that. Logic does not support it."

    Um, well...Will presents numbers to support his view. what "numbers" were you referring to in your previous post? What "logic" were you referring to? Hmmm...I'm wondering if anyone ever went out and actually interviewed the Florida Nader voters. Did they all of them actually say they wouldn't vote for Gore over Bush, absent a Nader run? - Or maybe just mightn't have? Would at least 600 of those 57,000 liberally-inclined voters have voted for Gore? Maybe, maybe not. If you know for sure, show me. otherwise, it's just your opinion.

    Again, I don't care so much about Nader as a presidential candidate; at best he's way beyond passe; at worst a minor societal embarrassment. But he seems destined to have an egotistically disasterous footnote in history. I just think those who step forward and make bold assertions on either side of this quasi-semi-issue shouldn't be timid about trotting out the facts, not just personal opinion.

    PLEASE SHOW ME YOU"RE RIGHT!

    I want to believe that a few diletente voters didn't just waste their poilitical capital

    and the world's well-being by enabling a GOP daddy's boy to become the most powerful negative influence in the world since WWII at least Puh-lease, since you're so confident, prove differently!
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  12. TopTop #12
    "Mad" Miles
     

    Re: Nader as Candidate

    https://www.sonomagreenparty.org/pag...lblaming.shtml


    Tars,

    If that doesn't satisfy you, did you read the debate between Mark Green, others and myself on this board over a year ago?

    Just go to the Member list, click "Find" after my nom de keyboard, go to Greens vs. Dems (or was it vice versa?) and it's all there.

    If you're still not convinced, well, you can't say I didn't try!

    "Mad" Miles




    P.S. I'm so disappointed, I thought you were going to come up with those permaculture plans for the melted sub-arctic tundra/taiga!

    Speaking of which, a new acquaintance of mine who just attended a three week intensive permaculture course in Bolinas says that "permaculture can be used ANYWHERE."

    So all hope is not lost....
    Last edited by "Mad" Miles; 07-03-2007 at 06:27 PM. Reason: Add sardonic and inspiring "P.S"
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  13. TopTop #13
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: New candidate?

    Dixon, dear, you and Miles and Tars are so bright and articulate I hardly dare to answer you, but here's a little of what I know about ego:
    If you see that we are all connected to each other and to everything in the world, then ego can only be a barrier to our understanding of reality.

    For one to "earn the right" to a big ego is laudable (in fact, is there anything more pathetic than a person who has done nothing that would put him in that group yet who has what is generally called an inflated ego?) but to have that "right", and to act from that place, I think can lessen one's effectiveness and lead to the sort of unilateral actions we see from our current power-brokers every day on the front pages (see: Cheney declares himself National Monument, Wacco Reader).

    A big ego also can lead to what Thomas Cleary calls "servile worship of the false god of self-esteem" and I don't have the time right now to get into all the BS which that leads to....

    I prefer someone like Jimmy Carter, who probably was never as forcefully effective as Nader, but he was equally honest; and what has he done since he's been out of office? Habitat for Humanity is just one thing, but he has also tried to be an agent for peace in the world.






    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dixon: View Post
    Sara

    Glad to hear it was just a joke; that wasn't immediately apparent given the political atmosphere of Nader-bashing, especially from the numerous dupes of the corrupt Democratic Party. (Remember how they promised to get us out of the war if we'd elect them? Haaaaaaaahahahahahahaha! And they won't even impeach one of the most blatantly corrupt world leaders ever known! And campaign funding reform? Forget it, suckers!).

    But I must take you to task on the ego issue. For a couple of decades, election after election, Nader refused to run for office even though millions were begging him to do so. He insisted on letting the Democratic Party take care of the needed reforms. Are these the actions of an ego-tripper? Certainly not.

    Only after the Demos showed again and again and again that they had no interest in real reform (except for a couple of hot-button issues they exploit for votes, such as abortion) did Nader reluctantly throw his hat into the ring. He keeps running, even though he knows he hasn't a snowball's chance of winning, to pull the Demos platform a little more to the left and to air important issues that are ignored by the big 2 parties.

    Even if we assumed he has an enormous ego, he's one of the few people around who have earned the right to a big ego; he's done more good for the country (and the world) than virtually anyone and, if by some miracle he got the Presidential opportunity, would do more good than all previous sleazeball US Presidents combined.

    I recommend the documentary about Nader, "An Unreasonable Man", to anyone interested in the facts about a fascinating human being.

    Dixon
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  14. TopTop #14
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: New candidate?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sara S: View Post
    Dixon, dear, you and Miles and Tars are so bright and articulate I hardly dare to answer you...
    Sara, honeybunch, I'm flattered, but would not want you to be intimidated into clamming up. I would like to think that we could all be as bright and articulate as possible without intimidating anyone into silence. After all, since we're all wrong about something, we need to dialogue with those who disagree with us in order to maximize our chances to get to the truth.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sara S: View Post
    ...but here's a little of what I know about ego:
    ....
    Sara, I agree with all you're saying about ego, but I must insist that it's not relevant in the Ralph Nader discussion. I won't repeat my refutation of the "Nader's just an ego-tripper" position here; go back to my post #5 on this thread and read it more carefully this time. I don't know why you slander Nader with this "ego" rap in spite of evidence to the contrary.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sara S: View Post
    I prefer someone like Jimmy Carter...
    Carter's been more progressive since he left the White House than he was as a President. The fact that we tend to see him as a glowing example of progressiveness in comparison to other Presidents shows just how horrendous most (probably all) Presidents have been. This link summarizes Carter's support of brutal dictators, military buildup, etc. :

    https://www.dissidentvoice.org/Artic...ins_Carter.htm

    Nader's more progressive, and has more integrity, than Carter ever dreamed of. If Carter were nearly as progressive as Nader, he could never have been elected.

    Love;

    Dixon
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