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  1. TopTop #31
    ray50sfo's Avatar
    ray50sfo
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    SERIOUSLY???

    You're Snoping this cartoon after some of the stuff you post?

    It's humor, not a court of law.

    Do we really need to rebut each other's humor?

    ...I thought the one of Hillary and Trump on the phone was the funniest of them all...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-22-2019 at 12:13 PM.
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  2. TopTop #32
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Quote ray50sfo wrote: View Post
    ...You're Snoping this cartoon after some of the stuff you post?...
    maybe not "rebut", but think about what's purportedly funny about this. So, it's not funny. It's random, dada maybe, but by the epistemology of jokes (if there is such a thing -- that's a joke) it doesn't qualify as a joke. It's supposed to be funny because it catches people in a hypocrisy, but when there's no hypocrisy, there's no joke. Get it? There's a stereotype that the right has no sense of humor. It'd be nice to see that disproven. (the funeral one's actually pretty good....)
    Last edited by Barry; 01-22-2019 at 12:13 PM.
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  4. TopTop #33
    ray50sfo's Avatar
    ray50sfo
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    I agree that would be a great standard to apply to the Hate Trump Hysteria cartoons.

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    maybe not "rebut", but think about what's purportedly funny about this. So, it's not funny. It's random, dada maybe, but by the epistemology of jokes (if there is such a thing -- that's a joke) it doesn't qualify as a joke. It's supposed to be funny because it catches people in a hypocrisy, but when there's no hypocrisy, there's no joke. Get it? There's a stereotype that the right has no sense of humor. It'd be nice to see that disproven. (the funeral one's actually pretty good....)
    Last edited by Barry; 01-23-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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  6. TopTop #34
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Quote ray50sfo wrote: View Post
    I agree that would be a great standard to apply to the Hate Trump Hysteria cartoons.
    I think people have repeatedly explained why the 'hate trump' is reasonable. His racism, dishonesty and lack of empathy are kind of a given, even to those who tolerate him, aren't they? So a political cartoon that illuminates those qualities of his does have a chance to be funny (in the limited sense of the term that applies to editorial cartoons). As far as 'hate trump hysteria', I suppose that's a thing, in that some people get pretty worked up over his excesses, but it's pretty rare and doesn't apply generally to people who react negatively to him. He's pretty provocative.

    On the theme of why some of this stuff isn't funny - in the Pelosi/Trump cartoon below, the underlying conceit is that Trump is taking his stand for serious reasons and Pelosi is being frivolous. (It's pretty misogynistic, too. ) I suppose if someone actually believed that, this might be funny. Political cartoons can highlight that dynamic of a situation. But since that's a ludicrous thing to believe, it's not funny and certainly not funny enough to justify the misogyny in it. An offensive joke may be tolerable if it's also a funny joke, but offensive statements are usually just offensive.

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  8. TopTop #35
    pdfender's Avatar
    pdfender
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Thank you for your comments. Very true. Unfortunately, a certain individual refuses to see the truth. I won’t mention any names Ray...cough cough).
    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    I think people have repeatedly explained why the 'hate trump' is reasonable...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-24-2019 at 11:19 AM.
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  10. TopTop #36
    ray50sfo's Avatar
    ray50sfo
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    No, I'm right. No, I'm right. No, I'm right. No, I'm right.

    Maybe it's time for couple's counseling...

    Quote pdfender wrote: View Post
    Thank you for your comments. Very true. Unfortunately, a certain individual refuses to see the truth. I won’t mention any names Ray...cough cough).

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  12. TopTop #37
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Well said, podfish!
    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    I think people have repeatedly explained why the 'hate trump' is reasonable. His racism, dishonesty and lack of empathy are kind of a given, ...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-24-2019 at 11:20 AM.
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  14. TopTop #38
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    I think you raise a salient point, Ray. People in general have a lot of more or less suppressed anger that enjoys getting into a battle of insults. I'm more interested in trying to understand your mind and character. Wacco people tend to be on the left of the political spectrum, and even so it is not uncommon for them to get into internecine squabbles. I actually don't know any people that are not on the left, so you provide an interesting opportunity to get to know someone who is more on the right but is obviously intelligent and reaching out in this forum for communication and understanding. I'm glad to meet you, and I thank Barry for posting your cartoons and providing this opportunity.

    Quote ray50sfo wrote: View Post
    No, I'm right. No, I'm right. No, I'm right. No, I'm right.

    Maybe it's time for couple's counseling...
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  16. TopTop #39
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Sorry to be stupid, but I just don't get that first cartoon.
    The second one, with Trump's red cloak of supposed "accomplishments", certainly provides ample opportunity for debate!

    The last two I "get," but why does one guy in the last cartoon have a red cap? I thought that was a symbol of Republicanism.

    And again, what's wrong with socialism? In a previous post I pointed out that many countries in Europe as well as Canada have it to some degree, and seem to be happy with it. But you never responded. This is basic!
    Last edited by Barry; 01-23-2019 at 02:18 PM.
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  18. TopTop #40
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Also, Occihoff, you forgot to mention the socialism (government-run programs for the benefit of all the citizens) we already have here: Medicare, Social Security, labor laws, the military, the Post Office, public safety, civil rights, etc. etc.

    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post
    S...And again, what's wrong with socialism? In a previous post I pointed out that many countries in Europe as well as Canada have it to some degree, and seem to be happy with it. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-24-2019 at 12:30 PM.
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  19. TopTop #41
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator
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  21. TopTop #42
    pdfender's Avatar
    pdfender
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Ray drank the Koolaid.
    Obviously he’s/ she’s an anti-Democrat.
    Ugh!
    Last edited by Barry; 01-25-2019 at 11:54 AM.
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  22. TopTop #43
    ray50sfo's Avatar
    ray50sfo
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    How horrible we don't all think and believe the same...those damn others...why can't they be enlightened like me, after all I know the truth and what's right !!! :-)

    Lighten up, it's humor...and besides it appears that there is enough koolaid to go around..perhaps we just drink different brands...

    Quote pdfender wrote: View Post
    Ray drank the Koolaid.
    Obviously he’s/ she’s an anti-Democrat.
    Ugh!
    Last edited by Barry; 01-25-2019 at 11:54 AM.
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  24. TopTop #44
    pdfender's Avatar
    pdfender
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Stop responding.
    I refuse to go to battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
    You speak b.s.
    I’m over and done. Good bye.
    Go bury your head in the sand. That’s where it is anyway.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-25-2019 at 11:54 AM.
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  25. TopTop #45
    ray50sfo's Avatar
    ray50sfo
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    I see, the story I make up from your responses is that you want the last word, and you want to be right. You want to be insulting and you justify your contempt for diversity of opinion and lack of humor with your transparent scarcity of substance. I'm ok with that. I respect your right to live your life as you choose. The good news is that Sebastopol is full of excellent therapists.

    I make up that you feel morally superior when, in reality, you have expressed no intelligent ideas, only put downs and insults directed at me because I dared express an opinion different from the ones you have convinced yourself are acceptable.

    If your idea of intelligent discourse is "Ray drank the koolaid", "you speak bs", and the battle of wits with an unarmed opponent comment are the best you can do, then, yes, by all means stop responding. No intelligent dialogue of ideas, no curiosity about anything because you know it all, just childish insults. I certainly don't derive my sense of self-worth from your approval.

    As I sit here happily with my ice cold, 32 oz supersized mug of koolaid, I wish you well. Namaste'

    Quote pdfender wrote: View Post
    ...I refuse to go to battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-25-2019 at 12:15 PM.
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  27. TopTop #46
    pdfender's Avatar
    pdfender
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    I’m so happy to hear that there are plenty of therapists In Sebastopol. Hope you find yourself a good one.
    But good luck. Nothing will change your spiritual bankruptcy.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-25-2019 at 11:55 AM.
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  28. TopTop #47
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    ok, Ray, you sound reasonable. So how can you post some of the images you do? They speak to you somehow? for example, the cartoon of the poor across the wall from the rich. That's supposed to be an illustration of Democratic hypocrisy or something? They serve that koolaid at Fox, I gather, but I see why pofender goes there. Sure, the Dems are led by some wealthy people. So are Repubs. But it's extremely hard to demonstrate that the Repubs have improved anything for their poorer supporters, beyond feeding their emotions - resentment of "moochers", fear of the other, etc. The Repubs gladly lead crusades like that. The Democrats may not be as successful at raising the prosperity of the poor as they aim to be, but to claim it's all a pose on their part isn't based on much evidence, just on a sour view of human nature.

    So that's just one example. But lots of the supposedly-humorous or illuminating cartoons you've selected (and I find this true of the annoying 'Lisa' the PressDemo uses as balance) really just are illustrations of right-wing tropes. I suppose if you have that world view, it's satisfying to see it echoed, but it's pretty tedious for anyone who doesn't like that flavor of koolaid. Occasionally some are illuminating of an alternate point of view, but only very occasionally. Still, they're free and pixels are available in big quantities. So go for it, I guess.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-25-2019 at 11:55 AM.
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  30. TopTop #48
    ray50sfo's Avatar
    ray50sfo
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    ok, Ray, you sound reasonable. So how can you post some of the images you do? ...
    Hi. Perhaps you prefer a palate of "acceptable" images that don't offend your sensibilities and conform to your prejudices?

    I post those images to provide a balance to the hateful, sometimes irrational, factually inaccurate, and one-sided cartoons on the board.

    What, it's ok to demonize one set of ideas and never permit the expression of another? That is what happens in a totalitarian socialist utopia where people are imprisoned and executed as "thought criminals". Where books are burned and ideas suppressed.

    One of the freedoms we still (somewhat, but no thanks to the Democrats) enjoy in America is the right to express ideas that may be repugnant to some people. Not to act violently, not to abuse people, but to freely express ideas. It's ok to glorify someone holding an image of Trump's severed head, but not ok to lampoon the sacred cow democrat party?

    You don't have to agree with Trump to overcome the non stop onslaught of corporate controlled media propaganda demonizing him and accept that he is most likely a decent human being who is pursuing a path that is genuine and meaningful to him, even if it is diametrically opposed to your values and beliefs. (a blasphemous thought on wacco for sure)

    I applaud Barry for permitting a balance to the far left hate Trump cartoons that have dominated this board.

    I got tired of complaining to myself about the one sided nature of the political discourse here and took positive, peaceful action to expand the dialogue. Mostly I think they are funny. To each his own.

    We may not agree on many things, but we can treat each other with civility, respect and love each other as fellow human beings, can't we? Hope so.

    You'll recognize me at the next annual wacco picnic by my red MAGA hat, hillbilly outfit, and Build The Wall T shirt...but it will already be built by then...:-)

    TTFN
    Last edited by Barry; 01-25-2019 at 11:55 AM.
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  32. TopTop #49
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Quote ray50sfo wrote: View Post
    Hi. Perhaps you prefer a palate of "acceptable" images that don't offend your sensibilities and conform to your prejudices?....
    who said they're unacceptable? I just said they're stupid (to put it politely). Demonize? that's again hyperbole, resonant of the victimization felt by the self-proclaimed winners. We've failed to realize our hoped-for socialist utopia, I think you'd acknowledge.

    I'd like to see someone expand the political discourse. Drawings that just present the tropes of the right, especially ones that are the least defensible tropes, are, as I said, annoyingly stupid. Not that I have anything against being annoying.

    So for more examples, the one with the Statue of Liberty, pushing the idea that the left is all about 'free stuff', is a preach-to-the-choir Fox talking point. I suppose you could stretch and say that what benefits should be 'free' (access to roads, high school, police services) vs. paid for (colleges, water & power) is a legitimate issue. That's sadly not where the current discussions are going. So I call that one stupid. Strictly academically, I see more legitimacy in the one with the three Democrat geezers talking about the need for youth - or even the unfair one with the cash-filled truck heading south.

    Humor may be in the eye of the beholder, but there are some widely-observed standards to judge it. We generally aren't as amused by potty humor as when we were two-year-olds, for example. It'd be nice, since you're trying to expand the range of political humor here, to give us the best, not just the stuff that appeals to the yahoo faction. And yeah, I'm not reluctant to claim to be able to tell the difference. I bet you can too, if you think about it.
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  34. TopTop #50
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Additional evidence that socialists have more fun:

    News to me.

    “If Mama ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy.”


    What Does Socialism Have to Do with Sex?
    By Rebecca Mead
    January 16, 2019

    ... In “Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism: And Other Arguments for Economic Independence,” Kristen R. Ghodsee, who teaches Russian and East European studies at the University of Pennsylvania, seeks to counter this narrative, arguing that for all the crushing repression under a political system like that of the former East Germany, women in those countries enjoyed certain freedoms, both material and existential, that were and remain largely unavailable, or even unimaginable, to women in liberal democracies.

    Ghodsee’s title is a memorable one, with its suggestion that under socialism women might all be having as much fun as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez pirouetting on a Boston rooftop. As in the Times Op-Ed from which the book originated, the title refers to the results of studies conducted in Germany from the mid-nineteen-eighties onward, which reported, among other intriguing findings, that eighty per cent of East German women always experienced orgasm during sex, compared to sixty-three per cent of women in West Germany. Ghodsee cites the work of a number of scholars of sexuality, who have addressed these topics in greater depth. But her own point is a larger one. “Unregulated capitalism is bad for women,” she writes. “If we adopt some ideas from socialism, women will have better lives.”...

    Full article here

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  36. TopTop #51
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Quote ray50sfo wrote: View Post
    Who drank the koolaid?
    Ray, I wish you would do me the honor of answering my questions rather than saying "who drank the koolaid?". Don't you think they are good, honest, and very basic questions, rather than the tit-for-tat put-downs that all too often tend to happen on this forum? I have appreciated the more straightforward responses you have given in the past.
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  38. TopTop #52
    ray50sfo's Avatar
    ray50sfo
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Yes, I will answer your questions, several of which came after the koolaid comment.

    I respect and take your questions seriously, and am not ignoring them. I am thinking through my responses in the interest of being thoughtful, constructive and as free of knee jerk platitudes and generalizations as possible so we can have a true dialogue, rather than a pissing contest. I do need a bit more time to assemble some background material I have in mind. Life goes on and family, etc. takes time. I am looking forward to genuine communication with you.

    Thank you for reaching out. I look forward to a positive, ongoing discussion that has value beyond being right.

    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post
    Ray, I wish you would do me the honor of answering my questions rather than saying "who drank the koolaid?". Don't you think they are good, honest, and very basic questions, rather than the tit-for-tat put-downs that all too often tend to happen on this forum? I have appreciated the more straightforward responses you have given in the past.
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  40. TopTop #53
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019


    So would the analogous "Republican Voters/Republican Politicians" cartoon show rich people on the left side, and even more stupendously rich people in giant mansions on the other side?

    Or would the left side show burning shacks, lynchings, and a Klan rally??
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  42. TopTop #54
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Thank you, Ray.

    Quote ray50sfo wrote: View Post
    Yes, I will answer your questions, several of which came after the koolaid comment.

    I respect and take your questions seriously, and am not ignoring them. I am thinking through my responses in the interest of being thoughtful, constructive and as free of knee jerk platitudes and generalizations as possible so we can have a true dialogue, rather than a pissing contest. I do need a bit more time to assemble some background material I have in mind. Life goes on and family, etc. takes time. I am looking forward to genuine communication with you.

    Thank you for reaching out. I look forward to a positive, ongoing discussion that has value beyond being right.
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  44. TopTop #55
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    That headline could just as well say "Sweden Thrives."

    Quote ray50sfo wrote: View Post
    Last edited by Barry; 01-30-2019 at 11:40 AM.
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  46. TopTop #56
    rossmen
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    No, it would be just the same!

    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post

    So would the analogous "Republican Voters/Republican Politicians" cartoon show rich people on the left side, and even more stupendously rich people in giant mansions on the other side?

    Or would the left side show burning shacks, lynchings, and a Klan rally??
    Last edited by Barry; 01-30-2019 at 11:40 AM.
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  48. TopTop #57
    rossmen
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    But that would not be as funny, we share more with Venezuela.

    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post
    That headline could just as well say "Sweden Thrives."
    Last edited by Barry; 01-30-2019 at 11:41 AM.
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  50. TopTop #58
    rossmen
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    This article is pure liberal propaganda, the research behind it is an embarrassment to sociology and the author is walking it back big-time. Just think about it, did east German women try to put the bricks back?

    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    Additional evidence that socialists have more fun:

    News to me.

    “If Mama ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy.”


    What Does Socialism Have to Do with Sex?
    By Rebecca Mead - January 16, 2019

    ... In “Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism: And Other Arguments for Economic Independence,” ...
    Full article here
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  52. TopTop #59
    rossmen
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Humor is not about judging, that how you lost yours.

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    who said they're unacceptable? I just said they're stupid (to put it politely). Demonize? that's again hyperbole, resonant of the victimization felt by the self-proclaimed winners. We've failed to realize our hoped-for socialist utopia, I think you'd acknowledge.

    I'd like to see someone expand the political discourse. Drawings that just present the tropes of the right, especially ones that are the least defensible tropes, are, as I said, annoyingly stupid. Not that I have anything against being annoying.

    So for more examples, the one with the Statue of Liberty, pushing the idea that the left is all about 'free stuff', is a preach-to-the-choir Fox talking point. I suppose you could stretch and say that what benefits should be 'free' (access to roads, high school, police services) vs. paid for (colleges, water & power) is a legitimate issue. That's sadly not where the current discussions are going. So I call that one stupid. Strictly academically, I see more legitimacy in the one with the three Democrat geezers talking about the need for youth - or even the unfair one with the cash-filled truck heading south.

    Humor may be in the eye of the beholder, but there are some widely-observed standards to judge it. We generally aren't as amused by potty humor as when we were two-year-olds, for example. It'd be nice, since you're trying to expand the range of political humor here, to give us the best, not just the stuff that appeals to the yahoo faction. And yeah, I'm not reluctant to claim to be able to tell the difference. I bet you can too, if you think about it.
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  54. TopTop #60
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Best of Political Humor - January 2019 - Discussion

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    But that would not be as funny, we share more with Venezuela.
    'as funny' ?? it's not remotely funny, or clever. We share a bunch with both places, but not in any really significant ways. Sweden's more civilized than we are, but more Americans speak Spanish than Swedish. And Sweden's far more socialistic than Venezuela, so in that sense we are more like Venezuela. But our oligarchs have learned the lesson from the farmer with the three-legged pig: "a good pig like that, you don't eat all at once!"
    So that's a key difference too.

    (rest of pig joke on request...)
    Last edited by Barry; 01-30-2019 at 11:44 AM.
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