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  1. TopTop #91
    Jeff Snook
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    ...
    Quote Dorothy Friberg wrote: View Post
    Thank you, my ignorance is exceeded only by your own .
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  2. TopTop #92
    luke32
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    Interesting piece from The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-crime/576391/

    "Legalizing pot was supposed to reduce crime, or so advocates argued. The theory was simple: As cannabis buyers beat a path to the nearest dispensary, the black market would dry up, and with it the industry’s criminal element. Indeed, a study recently published in The Economic Journalfound that after medical marijuana was legalized in California, violent crime fell 15 percent.

    Talk to authorities in California’s Emerald Triangle, though, and a different story emerges. This 10,000-square-mile area (which includes Humboldt, Mendocino, and Trinity Counties) by some estimates grows 60 percent of the country’s marijuana. Ben Filippini, a deputy sheriff in Humboldt, told me that ever since California’s 1996 medical-marijuana initiative, violent crime in his jurisdiction has increased: “People are getting shot over this plant. All legalization did here was create a safe haven for criminals.” When I asked Trinity County’s undersheriff, Christopher Compton, what’s happened since a 2016 initiative legalized pot in the state, he said: “We haven’t seen any drop in crime whatsoever. In fact, we’ve seen a pretty steady increase.” Compton’s counterpart in Mendocino, Matthew Kendall, agreed: “We’re seeing more robberies and more gun violence.”

    What’s going on? One factor is that legalization has led to a boom in the weed business, thereby increasing the supply of two things that tempt would-be thieves: the crop, and the cash it generates. The latter is particularly abundant, because while some credit unions and regional banks have begun accepting marijuana money, the big ones don’t. Cannabis is still illegal under federal law, and executives fear being charged with money laundering.

    A second factor: California may have legalized pot, but not all growers want to be legal. Out of some 32,000 farmers in the region, only about 3,500 had applied for a license by the end of 2017. Some insist that complying with regulations is too costly. Others are evading taxes. Running an illegal “grow,” however, leaves them especially vulnerable to “dope rips” (theft of processed marijuana), precisely because thieves know such farmers will be unwilling to file a police report. Criminal syndicates, which are involved in many of these thefts, resell much of the plunder out of state.

    Which brings us to a third factor: The post-legalization boom has led pot prices in California to plummet, and increased the incentive to sell the product out of state. A pound of marijuana that in 2015 went for $1,200 in-state sells today for just $300. In New York City, though, California weed fetches up to $3,000 a pound. Until marijuana is legalized nationally, such price discrepancies will surely remain, and criminal gangs will find their way to the Emerald Triangle.

    For now, as thefts grow more brazen, many farmers are employing new security measures. Some use a company called Hardcar Distribution to carry their cash—and their harvest—in armored vehicles operated by teams of armed military veterans. Others are converting dollars into bitcoin or precious metals. “I watch Breaking Bad and Ozark for tips,” one pot grower told me. “It’s like educational TV.”

    Last edited by Barry; 01-01-2019 at 08:17 PM.
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  4. TopTop #93
    Dorothy Friberg's Avatar
    Dorothy Friberg
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    Today's New York Times has an editorial by Alex Berenson with the caption "Don't ignore the Risks of Pot". ('What advocates of legalizing marijuana don't want you to know') This article sheds light on previous studies and medical research into effects of causing and/or increasing risk of psychosis and schizophrenia, which studies were done by respected medical researchers. Further in his article, Berenson states "before recreational legalization began in 2014, advocates promised that it would reduce violent crime. But the first four states to legalize -Alaska, Colorado, Oregon and Washington - have seen sharp increases in murders and aggravated assaults since 2014, according to reports from the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Police reports and news articles show a clear link to cannabis in many cases." These are important considerations for our neighborhoods

    Quote luke32 wrote: View Post
    Interesting piece from The Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-crime/576391/
    ...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-06-2019 at 02:42 PM.
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  6. TopTop #94
    karenm97's Avatar
    karenm97
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    (I haven't read the whole text of the piece Dorothy posted) I think it's important to point out that state-level
    "legalization" and the incumbent "regulation" such as California's - which requires all those expensive permits that not everyone has a trust fund or extensive network to crowdfund from - is not the same as federal decriminalization, which would lead to solutions such as lowered prices=less incentive to steal or commit other crimes against growers, and more importantly, more funding and approval of studies that would address a lot of different components to cannabis and their effects. This piece seems to focus on few studies that are only about THC. Sure, some people can't handle THC and that's terrible, but there are many benefits to cannabidiol that I don't see mentioned, and CBD consumption is a huge part of the cannabis/hemp markets.

    The stats about hospitalizations due to mental health crises allegedly brought on by cannabis use are ridiculous because nothing is mentioned about all the health, mental health, and social problems caused by alcohol users. Those problems affect millions. I volunteered as a medical interpreter at a hospital and interpreted for a guy who had alcohol poisoning. It was so gross. It's pretty rare for someone to OD on cannabis, and, sure, for some even using a small amount once (or regularly) can lead to psychosis (including in people who have had that condition previously). This happened to a friend of mine who was already pretty paranoid due to his hobby of hanging protest posters at night in San Francisco and it was very sad for all of us to not be able to help him to get better.

    I didn't see any clear stats about the violent crime in the Emerald Triangle being linked to cannabis. I have seen articles about how crime decreased in Colorado in the years after legalization there.

    This quote is ridiculous because it does not address the decreases in opioid use that have been observed in states that have legalized cannabis (you can google "decreased opioid use and cannabis" for some article about that) : "As Americans consider making marijuana a legal drug, it would be wise to remember the choices that fueled the devastating opioid epidemic. Decades ago, many of the same people pressing for marijuana legalization argued that the risks of opioid addiction could be easily managed."

    There's also no citation of the advocacy by the pro-cannabis people for opioid use. One must be aware that there are groups that advocate decriminalization of all drugs, but that's not what we're talking about here.

    In sum,WHATEVER.

    Start a cohousing community in a more rural area if you're so worried about your neighborhood.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-06-2019 at 02:43 PM.
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  8. TopTop #95
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    Quote MikeH wrote: View Post
    Note MO = Altria.
    Yes Mike. Altria WAS Phillip Morris. Now, It's a mish mash of crap worth a fraction of what it was. It's owned and spun off Kraft. It's got a 10% stake in ABInBev. It even owns Chateau Ste. Michelle Wine. It's stock price likely moves more on cheap alcohol trends than tobacco or pot. Now perhaps it's made it's shareholders money by spinning off companies and products to their benefit (I gotta doubt that considering), but the fact that PM is worth more than Altria has to sting a bit.

    Philip Morris Intl (PM), the "spin-off", market cap of 108Billion.

    Altria (MO) market cap of 94.5B.
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  10. TopTop #96
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    This may not be PC... but speaking as a former pothead... it's unfortunate it was legalized. I smoked it daily for 10 years. It was something I looked forward to every day... and then was stoned as soon as I did it! What a way to waste this precious life. It's addictive, and robs you of your zest and resourcefulness. With it's current legalization, its use has spread, so that now even more people are stoned out. Psychologically, frequent use is a symptom of someone who has no purpose or direction.
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  12. TopTop #97
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    Thank you for writing some of what I was thinking. Alcohol is the accepted drug of choice, and although I don't have statistics to back it up, I believe it's been the cause of more violence, domestic abuse, child/animal neglect, and mental illness than any other ingested substance in our culture.

    Thieves will steal anything of value, so cannabis gets stolen, especially if it's grown outdoors, without proper security, which could mean dogs and guns or both.

    Wealthy people who have valuables also have high levels of security to protect their precious possessions, including their "wine cellar".

    "Wine is fine, but pot is not"?

    Quote karenm97 wrote: View Post
    ..."legalization" and the incumbent "regulation" such as California's - which requires all those expensive permits that not everyone has a trust fund ...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-08-2019 at 01:11 PM.
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  14. TopTop #98
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    Quote tommy wrote: View Post
    .. it's unfortunate it was legalized. I smoked it daily for 10 years. It was something I looked forward to every day... and then was stoned as soon as I did it! What a way to waste this precious life. It's addictive, and robs you of your zest and resourcefulness .... Psychologically, frequent use is a symptom of someone who has no purpose or direction.
    OTOH, i've been smoking weed since JFK was president. Never have had a problem although nowadays it does not get me off the way it used to. Sad that. I didn't smoke every day back when because it didn't work as well if I did. Preferred to smoke in the evening every 2 or 3 days, when hiking or at Dead shows. I found weed to be a creative stimulant in my work as geologist. Nothing like getting ripped and studying a geologic map to gain new insights.

    People vary in their predilections to addiction. I quit smoking tobacco without much stress after being a daily smoker for 5 years. No problems at all quitting morphine after 2 major surgeries; hated that drug - made me stupid, constipated and impotent. Bringing the law down on folks who have no problem with weed because others can't handle it is bullshit and creates more problems than it solves. Speaking of harmful, addictive substances, what about alcohol? If your going to ban any drug, that should be the one. But we know how well that worked out, don't we?
    Last edited by Barry; 01-08-2019 at 01:40 PM.
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  15. TopTop #99
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    Well said, Geo. Tobacco belongs right up there with alcohol, IMO.

    Quote geomancer wrote: View Post
    OTOH, i've been smoking weed since JFK was president. Never have had a problem ....
    Speaking of harmful, addictive substances, what about alcohol? If your going to ban any drug, that should be the one. But we know how well that worked out, don't we?
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  17. TopTop #100
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    Well said, Karen, but it must be noted that there is another problem that arises in regard to edible cannabis products. When you smoke cannabis you feel the effects quickly, and can stop when it's too much, but when you eat it you have no idea what will happen, unless you've prepared it yourself and know the dosage. Eating too much and overdosing is a real bummer, as I know from my own experience! I have no idea how the edible cannabis products market can deal with this problem, especially when the products taste really good and may be consumed by people who do not realize what they are eating!

    Cannabis certainly has its dangers, but this is no reason to keep it illegal.

    Quote karenm97 wrote: View Post
    ...It's pretty rare for someone to OD on cannabis, ....
    Last edited by Barry; 01-09-2019 at 11:52 PM.
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  19. TopTop #101
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    Cannabis has different effects on different people, Tommy. For me it makes the world become clearer and more vivid; my normal state seems duller in comparison. I can sit gazing at the landscape or listening to music in delight for hours, while feeling my feelings intensely, or I may go hiking and the world comes more alive, or I might relate to a friend with extra depth and intensity. Cannabis certainly does not rob me of my zest and resourcefulness, and it enhances my creativity. I do agree, however, that if you smoke it incessantly you may be wearing your spirit out. I like to use it as an occasional spiritual hiking staff, not a wheelchair.

    In any case, illegalization solves nothing. It does not stop people from partaking. In my opinion illegalization is only a legalistic excuse for persecuting and prosecuting people, which is great fun and income for sadistic cops, lawyers, judges, and jailers.

    Quote tommy wrote: View Post
    This may not be PC... but speaking as a former pothead... it's unfortunate it was legalized. I smoked it daily for 10 years. It was something I looked forward to every day... and then was stoned as soon as I did it! What a way to waste this precious life. It's addictive, and robs you of your zest and resourcefulness. With it's current legalization, its use has spread, so that now even more people are stoned out. Psychologically, frequent use is a symptom of someone who has no purpose or direction.
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  21. TopTop #102
    karenm97's Avatar
    karenm97
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    Well, yep, that is an issue. The law limits how much THC can be in a package, and then I think that many types of edibles are easily broken down into smaller portions (ie, chocolate bars that are scored, individual capsules, recommendations of how many drops of a tincture to take, etc). There's definitely some trial and error, but at least I'm guessing that with testing and everything, doses are probably more consistent. There's also some variability in terms of time of day, what else the user has eaten, etc, though...

    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post
    Well said, Karen, but...
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  23. TopTop #103
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Huge industrial cannabis proposal near Graton

    Interesting info, Karen. Well, I'm grateful that the cat is out of the bag now, after so many decades of confinement! It's a Brave New World, and we'll all be riding the wave.....

    Quote karenm97 wrote: View Post
    Well, yep, that is an issue. The law limits how much THC can be in a package, and then I think that many types of edibles are easily broken down into smaller portions (ie, chocolate bars that are scored, individual capsules, recommendations of how many drops of a tincture to take, etc). There's definitely some trial and error, but at least I'm guessing that with testing and everything, doses are probably more consistent. There's also some variability in terms of time of day, what else the user has eaten, etc, though...
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  25. TopTop #104
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

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