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  1. TopTop #1
    MikeH
     

    Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    ESTABLISHES NEW STANDARDS FOR
    CONFINEMENT OF SPECIFIED FARM ANIMALS;
    BANS SALE OF NONCOMPLYING
    PRODUCTS. INITIATIVE STATUTE.

    Establishes minimum requirements for confining certain farm animals.
    Prohibits sales of meat and egg products from animals
    confined in noncomplying manner

    This was put on by Animal rights people. Prohibits certain type of farm animal confinement, and also importantly bans the sales of animal products brought in from out of state that do not meet these standards. Like chicken or eggs from caged birds, and veal from calves from out of state that inhumanely pen them in small spaces. Endorsed by Marin Humane Society, here is their article from the Marin IJ:

    http://www.marinij.com/2018/10/01/ma...-back-prop-12/

    Fortunately, Marin doesn’t have factory farming operations that subject animals to inhumane conditions. But the majority of the pork and veal sold in California comes from outside the state, where mother pigs and calves are confined in filthy crates so small that they can’t even turn around. Prop. 12 aims to ban the sale of pork and veal in California from factory farming operations outside the state that use these cruel crates. It would also ensure that products sold in California come from cage-free farms.

    Marin Humane is one of many animal welfare organizations, veterinarians, and food safety groups who helped get this important measure on the ballot — and voters like you will make the final decision this Election Day, Nov. 6. As a leading organization on animal welfare and cruelty issues, Marin Humane advocates that all animals, including farm animals, deserve protection from cruelty and neglect.

    Yes on 12 Facebook post :

    Happy World Farm Animal Day!
    We can make it a truly happy one by passing #yeson12 and freeing pigs, chickens and calves from cruel cages.
    Vote YES on Prop 12 and share posts from our page to yours!

    More info on Ballotpedia here

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  3. TopTop #2
    juna
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    We do have factory farming in Sonoma County.
    Check out the about 200 containers of calves
    at the end of Rohnert Park Expressway and Stony Point.
    I imagine during the 90 and 100 degree weather they were sweltering.
    I would not eat their veal.

    You are what you eat they say.

    I am glad this is finally on the ballot.

    Juna
    Quote MikeH wrote: View Post
    ESTABLISHES NEW STANDARDS FOR
    CONFINEMENT OF SPECIFIED FARM ANIMALS;
    BANS SALE OF NONCOMPLYING
    PRODUCTS. INITIATIVE STATUTE.
    ...
    More info on Ballotpedia here

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  5. TopTop #3
    MikeH
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    I never even was aware of the relationship of the dairy industry to veal calves until about a couple years ago when I came across "Mercy for Animals" videos. Never liked the idea of veal, killing babies because the meat is tender. Even if you're not a vegan, at least let them live to be beef.
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  7. TopTop #4

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal



    Calves are raised on a milk formula supplement. The meat colour is ivory or creamy pink, with a firm, fine, and velvety appearance. In Canada, calves intended for the milk-fed veal stream are usually slaughtered when they reach 18 to 20 weeks of age, weighing 450 to 500 pounds (200 to 230 kg). The photo above is from Woodstock Sanctuary, taken at a veal "farm."
    "Veal calves unable to walk or even stand for transport to slaughter. (photo: Farm Sanctuary)"

    Don't buy into this cruelty. Refuse veal. For the animals, for the earth, for your own health, consider veganism. Animal agricuture is one of the leading causes of climate change, more than the entire transportation sector. And please understand that when you eat eggs, the male chicks, one day old, not needed for the industry, are killed by maceration of suffocation. One day old.
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  9. TopTop #5

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Sounds as though these are not for veal but for replacement calves for dairy. As the mother cows age, they are sent off to slaughter for cheap hamburger. Every year they've been impregnated on the "rape rack" and after the calf is born, it is taken away. For veal or dog food if male, for milk if female. Dairy is incredibly cruel.

    Quote juna wrote: View Post
    We do have factory farming in Sonoma County. ...
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  11. TopTop #6
    MikeH
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal


    Message from the Yes on 12 Campaign

    It's still legal to sell veal from crated calves in California.

    Prop 12 will ban the sale of veal from factory farms that use these cruel crates, while setting the highest legal space requirements for "veal calves" in the U.S.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-06-2018 at 01:31 PM.
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  13. TopTop #7
    BEE KIND's Avatar
    BEE KIND
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Even though Marin County doesn't have factory farming, there is plenty of it in the rest of the state, including in Sonoma County. There is a Dairy farm on High School Rd. in Sebastopol just about a mile past Analy High School. You can drive by there and see the veal crates lined up way in the back, behind all the dairy cows grazing in the pasture. Notice that you only see adult cows, without any calves there with them. If you don't know better, it looks serene and peaceful. It's deceptive. The dairy cows don't live very long, usually only a few yrs before their bodies are so depleted from being repeatedly artificially impregnated in order to keep producing milk to sell to people who don't really need to drink it, despite what the Dairy Industry tells you. There are so many other milk alternatives now, which taste good and are much healthier to drink. Almond milk, coconut milk, rice milk, hemp milk, oat milk... try them, you might be surprised at how good they taste. Humans are the only animal species that drinks another animals milk and keeps drinking it into adulthood. Then we end up with clogged arteries, diabetes, Heart disease, strokes, etc. Be informed. See these movies: What the Health, Dominion, Food Inc. and Earthlings.
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  15. TopTop #8
    MikeH
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Quote BEE KIND wrote: View Post
    ... on High School Rd. in Sebastopol... see the veal crates lined up way in the back, behind all the dairy cows ....

    Veal crates right here? Don't like that. I'm drinking almond milk w/ Toasted Coconut.

    http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/...acts/veal.html

    Despite almost universal public opposition, hundreds of thousands of calves raised for veal are intensively confined in individual crates too narrow for them even to turn around.

    Tethered by their necks to further restrict their movement, they're virtually immobilized for their entire 16-week long lives. Unfortunately, this confinement is common in the veal industry, despite overwhelming scientific evidence that it's inhumane and at odds with public opinion.

    Even the American Veterinary Medical Association says that calves should be able to turn around and the American Veal Association—the veal industry's trade group—"recommends that the entire veal industry convert to the group housing methodology."

    Additionally, Randy Strauss, CEO of Strauss Veal (the nation's largest veal producer) calls veal crates "inhumane and archaic" and says they "do nothing more than subject a calf to stress, fear, physical harm and pain."

    The veal industry is a direct byproduct of the dairy industry and depends on it for survival, as all veal calves are the male offspring of dairy cows. (Dairy cows must be re-impregnated annually to continue producing milk, and half of their calves are male.)
    Last edited by Barry; 10-07-2018 at 12:23 PM.
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  17. TopTop #9
    eyemusic's Avatar
    eyemusic
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Why PETA opposes Measure 12

    Why We Oppose California’s Farmed-Animal Initiative and You Should, Too

    Written by PETA | November 21, 2017
    Name:  2018-10-09_14-31-11.png
Views: 692
Size:  9.5 KB


    Beware! The new farmed-animal ballot initiative in California is being painted in rosy terms, but don’t be fooled. At its best—meaning if it were to pass without any amendments or delays and without facing the lack of enforcement that made Proposition 2 a total failure—what it would actually do is allow farms to keep egg-laying hens in cages until 2022, at which time factory farms would still be able to confine uncaged hens to massive, crowded sheds with only 1 square foot of space per bird.

    PETA is an abolitionist organization, but we understand the necessity of taking small steps along the way and have long supported animal-welfare legislation that reduces suffering. However, this initiative is a step backward. It would ingrain the farming practice of giving hens a minuscule amount of space for years to come—at a time when companies are already requiring that hens be “cage-free” as a result of massive consumer demand, in large part because of PETA’s decades-long vegan campaign. It also sends the wrong message to consumers.

    Continues here
    Last edited by Barry; 10-09-2018 at 02:40 PM.
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  19. TopTop #10
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    so 12 is bad for hens but good for calves and pigs... how to vote??? jude
    Quote eyemusic wrote: View Post
    Last edited by Barry; 10-09-2018 at 02:41 PM.
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  21. TopTop #11
    forveterans49's Avatar
    forveterans49
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Quote Jude Iam wrote: View Post
    so 12 is bad for hens but good for calves and pigs... how to vote??? jude
    Found this article in The Intercept...might want to share with others. I wish we could just shut down all 'factory' farms; by the way, the word 'factory' should not be used along with 'farm'.

    Calves in Confinement: Gruesome footage of Dairy Calves Exposes a gaping Loophole in California's Landmark Animal Welfare Law

    Excerpt:

    "Many animal welfare and rights groups — including Animal Welfare Institute and Animal Legal Defense — are for the measure, however tepidly, because they see it as at least an improvement over the current practice. Hsiung, of DxE, agrees, but DxE as a whole is divided. PETA has pointed out that though the law outlaws cages for egg-laying chickens, it only gives them a square foot of space each – a concern many other DxE volunteers share. They fear that if Prop 12 passes, it will lock in a low standard of animal protection while persuading voters that the moral and technical problems with confinement have been solved.

    Note, too, that Proposition 12 only applies to veal calves. There is still no provision for other calves, which make up the vast majority of the calves in California and around the country. And even if there were more veal calves to be concerned about, DxE volunteers note, the standard for veal is still only about 6 by 7 feet — enough room to turn around, but not much else.
    "
    Last edited by Barry; 10-09-2018 at 02:50 PM.
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  23. TopTop #12

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Sorry, Mike, apparently you are wrong or rather that the campaign is wrong. Please read this:
    https://www.triplepundit.com/2014/12...s-effect-2015/
    I worked on Prop 2 and am increasingly ambivalent on Prop. 12. I'll contact Yes on 12 and back to ya.

    Is veal illegal in California?

    A covered animal includes “any pig during pregnancy, calf raised for veal, or egg-laying hen who is kept on a farm.” That means sow gestation crates, a small space pregnant pigs are confined in, are banned in California as of January 1. Veal crates, a small space calves are housed in, are also banned.Dec 31, 2014

    Quote MikeH wrote: View Post
    Message from the Yes on 12 Campaign

    It's still legal to sell veal from crated calves in California.

    Prop 12 will ban the sale of veal from factory farms that use these cruel crates, while setting the highest legal space requirements for "veal calves" in the U.S.
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  25. TopTop #13
    diaba
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    yes, thank you, would like to vote yes, but want to be sure that is the best thing to do.
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  26. TopTop #14
    eyemusic's Avatar
    eyemusic
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Here is why PETA (People for Ethical Treatment of Animals) says to vote NO!
    Why PETA opposes Measure 12 https://www.peta.org/blog/why-we-opp...you-should-too

    Quote diaba wrote: View Post
    yes, thank you, would like to vote yes, but want to be sure that is the best thing to do.
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  28. TopTop #15
    MikeH
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    What the Yes on 12 Campaign is saying is that it will ban the import from other states of veal calves raised in crates. Veal raised in the midwest in crates and trucked into California for sale for instance.

    Based on the information above apparently it is already illegal to raise calves in crates in our state.

    The claim is that the practice continues in other states and they get sold here.

    So at this point, mainly based on the recommendation of the Marin Humane Society, I am planning to vote yes.

    By all means that is just my opinion and I don't expect others to agree.
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  30. TopTop #16
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Take PETA with several grains of salt: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...nimals/254130/

    Several dedicated people I know who have long-time involvement with smaller animal rescue organizations say that PETA is dedicated to grandstanding and amassing large amounts of money. When Hurricane Katrina hit the South, many smaller groups were there rescuing animals. PETA swooped in with plenty of publicity, scooped up about 300 animals, and then when they were out of range of cameras, euthanized most of them, even before they got back to their headquarters.
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  32. TopTop #17

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Oh dear wise woman! I must have your resources on that statement. I'm not going to deny that it happened - I don't know - but we need some level of confirmation. PeTA in its early days did some amazing research into laboratories, broke the first inside-the-lab outrage. That was awhile ago and it has been a troubling memory that they have been accused to killing adoptable animals they have taken in. Like all movements, no success goes unstoned. Hey, PeTA did an "I'd rather go naked" right here in Santa Rosa back in the day. The same thing is said about HSUS - remember Wayne Pacelle's downfall? - and for those of us who like direct action, DxE has its detractors, who call Wayne the leader of a cult. I met him four years ago at the AR Conference down n El Ay and found him dedicated and professional. Go figger.

    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    ...Several dedicated people I know who have long-time involvement with smaller animal rescue organizations say that PETA is dedicated to grandstanding and amassing large amounts of money. ...
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  34. TopTop #18
    forveterans49's Avatar
    forveterans49
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    I do agree with you on PETA. I am sorry they do this stuff. This is actually the link I meant to share with everyone.

    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    Take PETA with several grains of salt:

    Several dedicated people I know who have long-time involvement with smaller animal rescue organizations say that PETA is dedicated to grandstanding and amassing large amounts of money. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 10-11-2018 at 12:32 PM.
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  36. TopTop #19
    Dorothy Friberg's Avatar
    Dorothy Friberg
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Since 'veal boxes' are no longer used in Calif. perhaps they can be re-purposed to house the homeless so they can get in out of the rain for the winter. Provided they are waterproof of course.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-11-2018 at 12:33 PM.
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  37. TopTop #20
    juna
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Shocking and horrific footage!

    The calf cages at Rohnert Pk. Expressway and Stony Point are about 200...which is sad enough....this footage is mind boggling at how many calves are existing in the cages!
    Quote forveterans49 wrote: View Post
    I do agree with you on PETA. I am sorry they do this stuff. This is actually the link I meant to share with everyone:
    Last edited by Barry; 10-11-2018 at 12:34 PM.
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  38. TopTop #21
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Sealwatcher, did you read the Atlantic article I cited? I can't give you the information you asked for because it was several years ago and some of the people I spoke with were ships passing in the night and because the others were animal rescue people I know and I want to respect their privacy. I did query one of them who runs an animal sanctuary and she wrote me this:

    "It’s my understanding that PETA is very regressive. Ingrid Newkirk is the only major animal “advocate” left in the US who still opposes No Kill, from what I have heard. Their shelter in Virginia kills almost every animal that has the misfortune of ending up there. You can use Google to find plenty of damning evidence- everything from statements from Newkirk herself to shelter statistics. I don’t know about the Katrina story, but I totally believe they are capable of that.

    "If you are talking about Prop. 12, the Humane Farming Assoc. also opposes it, but the rumor I have heard from people working in the movement is that it is all about a long-standing feud they have with Farm Sanctuary.

    "Anyway, I have looked at the proposition, found it sound, gathered signatures for it, am promoting it on FB and Twitter, and hope it passes by a wide margin in November. So that’s my 2˘. "

    Quote sealwatcher wrote: View Post
    Oh dear wise woman! I must have your resources on that statement. I'm not going to deny that it happened - I don't know - but we need some level of confirmation....
    Last edited by Barry; 10-11-2018 at 12:35 PM.
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  40. TopTop #22
    MikeH
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    The Press Democrat will tell you how to vote, if you allow them.

    They say No on 12. A couple of their "points.":

    Proposition 12 also would require compliance by out-of-state farmers, likely triggering more political challenges and more lawsuits — with taxpayers picking up the tab to defend the law in court.

    And the previous Prop 2 was approved not long ago, about 4 1/2 years ago.

    For anyone who doesn’t remember, Proposition 2 requires that breeding pigs, veal calves and egg-laying hens have enough room in their enclosures to stand up, lie down, turn around and fully extend their limbs.

    California’s pork and veal industries are quite small, so the impact has predominantly been on egg farmers. California is the nation’s seventh-leading producer, with about 14.5 million hens laying about 5 billion eggs a year, mostly on family-owned farms. Two large producers are located here in Sonoma County.

    Proposition 2 required egg farms to stop using small so-called battery cages by 2014. Many farms invested in larger colony cages, at a cost of millions of dollars, which in turn pushed up the retail cost of a dozen eggs. Many of those same farms are now planning costly new barns and other enclosures for cage-free farming.

    http://www.pressdemocrat.com/opinion...al-no-on-prop?
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  41. TopTop #23
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    now that's some of the darkest humor i've read in a while...even in these very dark times.
    jonathan swift would approve. jude

    ...uuuuh, that was meant as humor, wasn't it?

    Quote Dorothy Friberg wrote: View Post
    Since 'veal boxes' are no longer used in Calif. perhaps they can be re-purposed to house the homeless so they can get in out of the rain for the winter. Provided they are waterproof of course.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-11-2018 at 12:44 PM.
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  43. TopTop #24

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    Omg, and here I was thinking Dorothy was serious leaving me aghast...

    Quote Jude Iam wrote: View Post
    ...uuuuh, that was meant as humor, wasn't it?
    Last edited by Barry; 10-11-2018 at 02:46 PM.
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  44. TopTop #25
    forveterans49's Avatar
    forveterans49
     

    Re: Ballot Measure 12 - Farm Animal

    I just wish things were so simple when it comes to animal concerns. Just wish there were not so many crazy things involved with different people and different groups and no one did bad things. Make sense? I do love In Defense of Animals.
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