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  1. TopTop #1
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!



    What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!
    By E.I. Hillin, Staff Writer, [email protected] Sep 14, 2018

    Bike lanes added to downtown avenue

    Bright green patches appeared on Petaluma Avenue this week, leaving some residents scratching their heads, while others cheered.

    “There is evidence of physical change, and people are responding,” said Sebastopol City Councilmember Sarah Gurney.

    The lane striping is part of Sebastopol’s Bicycle and Pedestrian Improvements Plan, as well as a repaving project by the California Department of Transportation (CalTrans).

    Mayor Patrick Slayter discussed the implementation of the bike network during a town hall meeting last month.

    “The biggest change is coming, which is the installation of the bike routes along the two state highways, Highway 116 and Highway 12, in partnership with CalTrans,” he said.

    The partnership with CalTrans helped to save the city millions of dollars, Slayter said.

    “We’re doing some accessibility upgrades with ramps for the sidewalks, and CalTrans is putting in the bike lanes,” he said. “In about two years, the city will go from having less than a quarter mile of a bike lane in the southwest quarter of the city to having a complete and comprehensive bicycle route plan.”

    What does green mean?

    Continues here

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  3. TopTop #2
    Dustyg's Avatar
    Dustyg
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Wow, could have fooled me. Some of them look like they could be bike related, but other big green blocks or a series of green bars moving across the lanes did not look bicycle/car friendly to me...perhaps it's my age....
    Last edited by Barry; 09-18-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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  5. TopTop #3

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Sheer madness, imho. After forty some years in county, mostly west county, the increasing urbanization and gentrification of Sebastopol is simply awesome to me. As I see it, it all started with the construction of Warm Springs dam, which destroyed the gathering grounds of the native people for their basketry, considered valuable additions to museum collections. WSD also nearly destroyed the native salmonid runs, replacing (mitigating) them with the hatchery. What we've always lacked as a people is the ability to look forward seven generations. We are a restless people moving from sea to shining sea with grave repercussions and damage far beyond our limited and materialistic ken.

    Quote Dustyg wrote: View Post
    Wow, could have fooled me. Some of them look like they could be bike related, but other big green blocks or a series of green bars moving across the lanes did not look bicycle/car friendly to me...perhaps it's my age....
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  6. TopTop #4
    luke32
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Actually the decline started when they paved the road west of Santa Rosa. Its been downhill ever since.

    Quote sealwatcher wrote: View Post
    Sheer madness, imho. After forty some years in county, mostly west county, the increasing urbanization and gentrification of Sebastopol is simply awesome to me. As I see it, it all started with the construction of Warm Springs dam, which destroyed the gathering grounds of the native people for their basketry, considered valuable additions to museum collections. WSD also nearly destroyed the native salmonid runs, replacing (mitigating) them with the hatchery. What we've always lacked as a people is the ability to look forward seven generations. We are a restless people moving from sea to shining sea with grave repercussions and damage far beyond our limited and materialistic ken.
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  7. TopTop #5
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Quote luke32 wrote: View Post
    Actually the decline started when they paved the road west of Santa Rosa. Its been downhill ever since.
    I thought it was a railroad and airport?
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  8. TopTop #6
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!


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  9. TopTop #7
    Dianala's Avatar
    Dianala
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    This is a terrible decision for a major thoroughfare through town and a highway. How did this happen? The traffic will back up at significant times of the day, and there just is not enough bike traffic to justify this.
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  11. TopTop #8
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    I just hope they finish painting the white lines soon... half the street you can't tell if how many lanes there are, if we're following the dots or the plastic strips, and tons of people creating more lanes than there are.

    Quote Dianala wrote: View Post
    This is a terrible decision for a major thoroughfare through town [...]
    State roads are governed by state laws. It's the standards we have in place for new construction currently in this state based off the traffic counts they took earlier.
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  13. TopTop #9
    MikeH
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Quote Dianala wrote: View Post
    This is a terrible decision for a major thoroughfare through town and a highway. How did this happen? The traffic will back up at significant times of the day, and there just is not enough bike traffic to justify this.
    I don't know. The bridge over the Laguna, highway 12, was widened to now provide Class I bike lanes in both directions. The old bridge was to narrow to accommodate bike lanes. So for Petaluma Ave possibly they figured they could not fit a Class I bike lane and still have two vehicle lanes, so dropped it to one lane.

    I think liability is an issue. Also there is the new state law which says vehicles must give 3 feet of space to cyclists. So if a cyclist is hit by a car, and the design does not provide a class I bike lane with the ability of drivers to give 3 feet breath (?) to cyclists, CalTrans could be liable.

    Here is the bike lane definitions. I guess I meant Class II bike lanes!

    http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist1/d1projec..._explained.pdf
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  15. TopTop #10
    Vanissar's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Quote ChefJayTay wrote: View Post
    I just hope they finish painting the white lines soon... half the street you can't tell if how many lanes there are, if we're following the dots or the plastic strips, and tons of people creating more lanes than there are.

    State roads are governed by stated laws. It's the standards we have in place for new construction currently in this state based off the traffic counts they took earlier.
    As a cyclist, I suspect the reason you believe there are not enough bikes in sebastopol to justify the lanes is because cyclists are virtually invisible to your average sebastopol driver. It is quite dangerous to bike here because of this, which could also deter cyclists.

    Drivers here, in general, do not give me enough space on right to bike safely, and often seem surprised to see a bike. I have to be just as vigilant here as I was in the bay area. Sometimes the only way I can avoid being smushed is to ride on the sidewalk, which is prohibited.

    At the moment the lanes are new and confusing, to me as well as you, and that's also unsafe. And agreed, 116 is already congested. One lane is not enough. Poor planning.

    But hopefully everyone will get the hang of the bike lanes, start giving bikes their legal space, and more cyclists will feel safe enough to use major roads. I suspect more of us will come out of the woodwork now. Which would reduce car congestion....
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  17. TopTop #11
    Dustyg's Avatar
    Dustyg
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    "start giving bikes their legal space:". Speaking of legal, how about bikes paying attention to the stop signs and stopping, like the drivers of cars do. Once we're all on the road, we need to all drive according to the law. Any way that bicyclists contribute to the road creation and maintenance?

    Quote Vanissar wrote: View Post
    ...But hopefully everyone will get the hang of the bike lanes, start giving bikes their legal space, and more cyclists will feel safe enough to use major roads. ....
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  19. TopTop #12
    Vanissar's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Quote Dustyg wrote: View Post
    "start giving bikes their legal space:". Speaking of legal, how about bikes paying attention to the stop signs and stopping, like the drivers of cars do. Once we're all on the road, we need to all drive according to the law. Any way that bicyclists contribute to the road creation and maintenance?
    I expect all vehicles, including mine, to stop at stop signs. It's true, some cyclists do not stop. (Btw, there are pro and con arguments about the safety and practicality of cyclists stopping at stop signs happening in cities around the country)
    It is also true that I frequently encounter cars doing rolling, last minute stops at stop signs, not noticing my bike, and forcing me to brake or swerve suddenly to not get hit.

    Answer to your question: We pay taxes. And cyclists offer another contribution, we reduce fossil fuel usage.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-27-2018 at 02:20 PM.
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  21. TopTop #13
    Dustyg's Avatar
    Dustyg
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    That doesn't answer my comment, of course, we all know that! Do you ever ride in a car, bus?

    Quote Vanissar wrote: View Post
    And cyclists offer another contribution, we reduce fossil fuel usage.
    Who doesn't pay taxes?
    Quote Vanissar wrote: View Post
    Answer to your question: We pay taxes.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-27-2018 at 02:23 PM.
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  22. TopTop #14
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Quote Dustyg wrote: View Post
    "start giving bikes their legal space:". Speaking of legal, how about bikes paying attention to the stop signs and stopping, like the drivers of cars do. Once we're all on the road, we need to all drive according to the law. Any way that bicyclists contribute to the road creation and maintenance?
    so, is that a change of subject, or a prerequisite before bikes get their legal space?
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  24. TopTop #15
    Dustyg's Avatar
    Dustyg
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Just my 2 cents on the subject...I do think that making incoming 116 a one lane instead of two is not good. That's all I have to say...

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    so, is that a change of subject, or a prerequisite before bikes get their legal space?
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  26. TopTop #16
    MikeH
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    CalTrans has a real problem fitting a full regulation bike lane along with parallel parking onto an existing road. You cannot have a bike lane up against the curb, bikers riding in the gutter, and cars parallel parking at the same time, because a bike lane with cars parked in it is not a bike lane.

    And now it seems the bike lane needs to be spaced away from the parallel parked cars to allow for drivers opening their car doors, so an opened door doesn't automatically obstruct the bike lane.

    Today I was driving down the hill, from Fiesta Market toward Safeway, and noticed how it was striped. The bike lane is far away from the curb, so much so that the lane for cars is very narrow. So driving your car, you'll be keeping close to the yellow line that defines the center left turn lane. Drivers in front of me were allowing their vehicles to drift right, so they were going well into what is supposed to be the bike lane.
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  28. TopTop #17
    danargraves's Avatar
    danargraves
    Supporting Member

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Quote Dianala wrote: View Post
    This is a terrible decision for a major thoroughfare through town and a highway. How did this happen? The traffic will back up at significant times of the day, and there just is not enough bike traffic to justify this.
    Especially since the parallel bike path is less than a block to the right.
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  30. TopTop #18
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Quote danargraves wrote: View Post
    Especially since the parallel bike path is less than a block to the right.
    I actually like it. Traffic is no longer 30-40 on 116 approaching 12 and makes getting into traffic actually easier.
    I see more bike traffic, and less opportunities for band parking at hopmunk or delivery trucks on main causing traffic issues. It's not like traffic really used 2 lanes in much of the city headed north.
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  32. TopTop #19
    pamelasl
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    thank you Dianala ~ I could not agree more. It has adversely affected the way I go to work. Who decided this I wonder? The city counsel?

    Quote danargraves wrote: View Post
    Especially since the parallel bike path is less than a block to the right.
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  33. TopTop #20
    Beanie
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    City of Sebastopol/Cal Trans/Bike Lane Designer

    This is a respectful letter with respect to the new lane striping and bicycle lanes in Sebastopol on North Main and Petaluma Avenue. New bike lanes in other areas appear to be working fine.

    On Petaluma Avenue, from the Old Aubergine to The Feed store is now one lane on the west side. A bike lane takes up the entire prior car lane, and there is designated parking on both sides of the street. Note that on the east side, from Aubergine to the Feed Store, there is the equivalent of about one block that does not have a substantial parking lot associated with the buildings. Having an office on Petaluma Avenue, I struggle daily with entering the one lane. My staff struggles. My clients struggle.
    Frequently, one of us is out in the road indicating when it might be safe to pull out.

    Prior to the new striping, it was seldom that we saw any cars parked on the east side of Petaluma Avenue. Since the new striping, I have looked every day and at the most, I have seen 4.

    I suggest you removing the parking on the east side, move the bike lane into that area and re-open a secondary lane on Petaluma Avenue.

    Regarding North Main Street, at the intersection/traffic light at Healdsburg Avenue/North Main/High School road, the main area on the South side of Safeway is now one lane up to the next light, Main intersecting McKinley, where previously there were two lanes plus a turn lane. Then the McKinley light is red – the traffic backs up PAST the light at High School Road, causing High School Road to back up. I sat through 3 lights before we could pull out onto Main Street on a weekend. I cannot imagine what it would be like at opening and closing school hours. I understand the bike lanes need to stay, but this section needs to be re-designed also.
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  35. TopTop #21
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    Quote Beanie wrote: View Post
    City of Sebastopol/Cal Trans/Bike Lane Designer [...]
    There was no... designer.
    Here is the state manual on highway design.
    http://www.dot.ca.gov/design/manuals/hdm.html

    There is a place to suggest changes (if, after reading, you think it'll actually happen).
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  36. TopTop #22
    MikeH
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    There are many very negative comments on the City's Facebook page, and several said they intend to show up at this evenings city council meeting and voice their displeasure. Hope it doesn't get too personal or nasty. Some were trying to blame the city council, and narrow it to particular members.
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  38. TopTop #23
    seedavelee
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

    I wonder if the planning commission that voted this in SERIOUSLY looked at the impact these lanes would have on traffic back up that was a problem already in downtown Sebastopol. It appears so "short sighted" in this regard, ie., decision stemming from an "idealistic view" rather than hard facts especially taking into account the future impact on congestion, it just seems preposterous.....I mean a really bad decision!
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  40. TopTop #24
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

    Re: What's with the green squares on the road? They're bike lanes!

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