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  1. TopTop #1
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
     

    Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana regs

    The following is about the new group SAVE OUR SONOMA NEIGHBORHOODS. It started in rural Petaluma, but could be important elsewhere.

    Good morning friends and neighbors,

    We have a big announcement! In the past few months, No Pot on Purvine has been collaborating with other concerned citizen groups in rural unincorporated areas of the county regarding the marijuana grows and applications in our respective neighborhoods. We are excited to announce that SAVE OUR SONOMA NEIGHBORHOODS is the product of this collaboration!

    We have formed this larger group coalition with the purpose of change, beginning with lobbying our supervisors to revise the county ordinance beginning in April.

    Like our Facebook page SAVE OUR SONOMA NEIGHBORHOODS – Please join the group and become involved in the changes you know need to take place.

    https://www.facebook.com/SaveOurSonomaNeighborhoods/

    Save this page, and check it often! This is where events, and news will be posed most often.

    Who we are: A coalition of concerned Sonoma County residents dedicated to representing neighborhoods in lobbying the county for the common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana.

    Tag Line: Sonoma County residents voted to legalize adult recreational marijuana use, not to have it grown commercially in our neighborhoods.

    Primary Objectives and Demands for the April 10th Supervisors meeting:

    1. Immediately STOP issuing marijuana permits until the Sonoma County Ordinance is revised

    2. In the future, absolutely no ministerial permits: all marijuana permits must be discretionary and neighbors are owed due process

    3. Commercial marijuana grows to be restricted to industrial zoning only

    4. Disband the Cannabis Advisory Group (CAG)- due to of conflict of interest and possibly collusion among the CAG board members

    5. Limit maximum number of marijuana cultivation permits to be issued to prevent illegal exportation. Sonoma County should not promote the production beyond local needs

    6. Absolutely no private easements in any future marijuana cultivation permits

    As a start, please attend Tuesdays Board of Supervisors Meeting, Today, March 13th.
    This is where the change begins! If you do not want to speak that is ok!

    WEAR RED, Wear Red, wear red….it was decided at our meeting to encourage all attendees and speakers to wear red when speaking and Identify yourself as a member of the “SAVE OUR SONOMA NEIGHBORHOODS” coalition.

    To speak:
    There are yellow speaker cards on the left side of the chamber (Next to the ramp). Pick up a card fill it out and return to the container next to where you picked up the card. PRINT OUT a copy of your talk, it does not need to be identical, so you can get more of your complaint on the record and give it to the clerk after speaking. This step is important so you go on written record as to your position. You will have, at the maximum, 3 minutes but expect only 2 minutes to speak, practice and time you talk so you know what you can effectively leave out if your speaking time is cut down from 3 to 2 minutes.

    WEAR RED, Wear Red, wear red….it was decided at our meeting last night to encourage all speakers to wear red when speaking and Identify yourself as a member of the “SAVE OUR SONOMA NEIGHBORHOODS” coalition.

    We will see you at the Tuesday, March 13th BOS meeting, and suggest being in a seat by 8:15 and filling out a speaker card if you wish to speak. Parking can be tight at this time in the morning so find your space early.

    For future reference:
    You must check the agenda for each meeting as the time for public comments can change for each meeting! You can also sign up to be automatically noticed of each Board of Supervisors (BOS) meeting on the county website, at this link.

    Stay tuned!

    Your SOS neighborhood team

    Please take time to visit our website nopotonpurvine.com and like our facebook page

    Last edited by Barry; 03-13-2018 at 09:07 AM.
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  3. TopTop #2

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    I wish there would be a meeting that would bring the groups together. I understand from past fliers that the cultivators were not welcome at the community events. Dialogue is key to harmony. Having run a small art nonprofit for five years in Sebastopol, we became very friendly with many of the cultivators and folks in the cannabis-ecosystem in the surrounding areas.

    I have taken the time to read through all of the bills surrounding the firming up of Medical in advance of 64, as well as the laws that have come into place after. The biggest worry we should have as a community is what Prop 64 will usher in in 2023 -- and that is what was referred to as a 'Type 5' originally, or 'unlimited'.

    Small cultivators are working on less than an acre, and I believe only 40 acres of permits have been applied for thus far in all of Sonoma. (This is barely the size of two average vineyards if the information I've queried from the Ag department is correct.)

    If these small operations can indeed put down roots, it means that there will be a more solid ecosystem of small businesses in Sonoma, that will mean LESS LAND available for when the Montsano and Bayer's want to come in after the five-year sunset clause for unlimited applications.

    I would love to see our community come together early, and work TOGETHER to prepare for the larger, well-funded issues we will face in 2023. We know that 'big money' comes to play -- 64 was a private initiative. The Sacramento Bee had done a story in advance of the vote that tied 64 funding back to George Soros (https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-c...107006332.html).

    How can we facilitate a community dialogue?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shepherd: View Post
    The following is about the new group SAVE OUR SONOMA NEIGHBORHOODS. It started in rural Petaluma, but could be important elsewhere.

    Good morning friends and neighbors,

    We have a big announcement! In the past few months, No Pot on Purvine has been collaborating with other concerned citizen groups in rural unincorporated areas of the county regarding the marijuana grows and applications in our respective neighborhoods. We are excited to announce that SAVE OUR SONOMA NEIGHBORHOODS is the product of this collaboration!

    We have formed this larger group coalition with the purpose of change, beginning with lobbying our supervisors to revise the county ordinance beginning in April.

    Like our Facebook page SAVE OUR SONOMA NEIGHBORHOODS – Please join the group and become involved in the changes you know need to take place.

    https://www.facebook.com/SaveOurSonomaNeighborhoods/

    Save this page, and check it often! This is where events, and news will be posed most often.

    Who we are: A coalition of concerned Sonoma County residents dedicated to representing neighborhoods in lobbying the county for the common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana.

    Tag Line: Sonoma County residents voted to legalize adult recreational marijuana use, not to have it grown commercially in our neighborhoods....

    Last edited by Barry; 03-14-2018 at 07:32 PM.
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  5. TopTop #3
    MikeH
    Guest

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    These home invasion robberies where they have targeted the wrong homes no less are outrageous.

    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8...juana-farm-may

    A gang of would-be robbers may have been targeting an old marijuana farm outside Petaluma but went to the wrong house in the middle of the night...

    The robbers kicked in the doors of three homes just over the fence from the Petersen Lane property, where neighbors said renters had been growing pot for the better part of a decade.

    Delzell said she and several other neighbors complained to the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors and the Sheriff’s Office, but nothing was ever done.

    The cannabis farm, the subject of neighborhood complaints, was abandoned several months ago and is not currently used to grow pot, neighbors said. One said she had long feared the farm would bring violence to the rural enclave of homes west of Petaluma.

    “We knew this was going to happen,” said Lisa Delzell, who left the neighborhood in 2015 — in part to get away from the unwanted activity on the farm off Petersen Lane.
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  7. TopTop #4
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    NIMBY!!
    NIMBY!!
    Oh the humanity! There's a new booming economy in town! Let's kill it and any chance of our state being an exporter!
    As if that's going to solve any of these peoples complaints.
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  9. TopTop #5
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    The following was posted elsewhere and relates to this thread. According to GoLocal, only 4% of veggies & fruit sold in Sonoma County is grown here. This is a serious food security threat. I am a patient who uses cannabis consciously. It should not be planted near schools, nor too close to families with young children, in my opinion. SoCo is already over-grown with the two mono-crops of wine & cannabis, which are a threat to a stable, secure economy.

    Jim Bracco
    , Bloomfield

    Say No to Pot Farms in Residential Neighborhoods

    The map below shows all the applications for pot cultivation in the Twin Hills / Sebastopol / Bloomfield area. Looks like 15 of them. Hillcrest and Twin Hills Schools will be surrounded. Also right next to 3 Christmas tree farms. Won't that be Christmassy?

    If you read the news and watch TV, like yesterday, you know these sites are targets for out of state criminal gangs looking to score cash and weed to sell back East where the weed prices are higher.

    9 out of the last 11 murders in Sonoma County were at pot farms.We are taking it up a notch.A coalition of concerned citizen groups has formed with representatives from all over the County. So if this is a concern to you please like our Facebook page and watch our website.

    Please write letters to each Supervisor individually and cc the other officials as described on the web site under Resources.Please attend the Board of Supervisor meetings, wear red and speak out. April 10 is the big county meeting on this.Let’s keep Twin Hills and Sonoma County Rural – Residential – Agricultural – Pristine - and drug free. Here is link to map of ALL the application sites in the county.
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  11. TopTop #6

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    I am curious, and asking respectfully (which may not always come across from a keyboard). I don't know any cultivators who want to broadcast their locations; and as neighborhood safety seems to be a key concern -- how is listing all permit application sites publicly helping matters and assisting in abating safety concerns? I've noticed it on fliers, and I noticed this publicly-available Google Map. Would this not be bringing more attention to the sites in question?

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  13. TopTop #7
    MikeH
    Guest

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/home/8...ion-similar-to

    This is a bit interesting with regards to the motive. This new article again deals with the home invasions perpetrated by those coming all the way from back east. From the Press Democrat:

    In Virginia, Capt. Emmett Williams with the Richmond Police Department’s special investigations division said his department has been following the Sonoma County cases since the news broke in February that residents of their city were involved in California robberies.

    His detectives have heard that local drug dealers are buying California marijuana for between $700 and $800 per pound and mailing it back east where it might sell for anywhere between $2,200 and $3,200 per pound, according to the captain.

    “The weed is going west-to-east and the cash is being shipped east-to-west,” Williams said.

    Marijuana is increasingly prevalent in Virginia and investigations involve people from every age, race, gender and socioeconomic status, he said.

    “On a personal note, I apologize for our misfits coming out to your neighborhoods and committing crimes,” Williams said. “I wish we would have done something.”
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  14. TopTop #8
    ShaktiMa
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r



    Hundreds of California cannabis cultivators in backlog limbo

    JULIE JOHNSON
    THE PRESS DEMOCRAT | March 16, 2018, 9:45AM

    Some cannabis growers are already germinating seeds in preparation for the outdoor planting season in Mendocino County, but a backlog in county permits is creating uncertainty about how many of those seeds will flourish into marijuana products sold legally in California.

    Over the past 10 months, about 850 people have applied for permission to grow cannabis in the county. Only 100 have so far been approved — 0.01 percent of the estimated 10,000 growers in the county. Legal or not, they are nevertheless central to the region’s economy.

    The county has hired a consultant from Southern California, Kelly Overton, and given him the title of cannabis program manager, to oversee an overhaul of its systems for reviewing, rejecting and approving cannabis business applications. Officials have given him a directive: Give more applicants permission to grow.

    ...

    The slow pace also is stark in Sonoma County, where local authorities have to date given only three applicants permits to grow: the husband-and-wife team behind Fiddler’s Greens near Sebastopol, a planned 10,000-square-foot farm in Penngrove by a local acupuncturist and an indoor cultivation facility near the Charles M. Schulz-Sonoma County Airport.

    Fifty-eight Sonoma County growers have received temporary state cultivation licenses while waiting to receive county approval.

    ...

    Full article here
    Last edited by Barry; 03-18-2018 at 12:30 PM.
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  16. TopTop #9
    O.W.'s Avatar
    O.W.
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    I think taking a look at the big picture, we have seen what industrial ag has done to the quality of life in the county so of course there is great concern about legalized cannabis. We've seen our neighborhoods, roads, water, air, soil and high childhood cancer rates go up as that industry expands. Did the Supervisors not realize how much conflict their cannabis regulations would cause? It would be in their powers to change the exclusion zoning to prevent conflict.

    James Conaway's, new book, "Napa at Last Light" paints a picture how the wine industry working with real estate interests had the agriculture definition changed to include "marketing" in Napa's General Plan which created the gridlock and general destruction of Napa. We are following in their footsteps. What they allow for one industry will be applied to this as well. That includes allowing vineyards to spray known carcinogens next to children in schools. Alot of conflicts in neighborhoods trying to raise their children that already have not been addressed.

    I'm not sure what the answers are but the neighbors have some good ideas that should be explored. Property values will be impacted so the neighbors must have their say. In a rush to legalize alot of issues just were not addressed well and left the door open to the big grows/corporate folks that seem to be moving to our area and have no stake in quality of life for those who call this county home......it's just about the money. Remember last summer West County neighbors shut down 3 grows. One that destroyed a recently restored creek by bulldozing the land and garbage into the creek. Our community must come together and ask the tough questions and get some solutions that work for everyone not just industrialized ag.
    Last edited by Barry; 03-18-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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  18. TopTop #10
    Lauren M's Avatar
    Lauren M
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    They could have done something - they could have legalized cannabis in their state.

    Prohibition is what causes the violence. Not legalization and regulation.



    Legal marijuana cuts violence says US study, as medical-use laws see crime fall

    Murder and violent crime found to have decreased most in states bordering Mexico as drug cartels lose business to regulation

    See article here

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by MikeH: View Post
    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/home/8...ion-similar-to

    ...

    “On a personal note, I apologize for our misfits coming out to your neighborhoods and committing crimes,” Williams said. “I wish we would have done something.”
    Last edited by Barry; 03-18-2018 at 12:40 PM.
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  20. TopTop #11
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    There are an estimated 10k growers in this county of 500k people. 1 in 50.

    STOP. Go back and read that first sentence again and think.

    The ONLY thing that is different is there's those trying to come out of the shadows.
    Or did you think the AG department (which I find seriously lacking in our county, but another matter) was inspecting their operations for the last 20-30-40-50 years?
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  21. TopTop #12
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    I agree with Lauren that prohibition is no solution. I am one of the millions who uses cannabis as medicine. Its medicinal use is on the rise, as more evidence becomes available of it multiple benefits. How cannabis is being regulated by some government bodies is a real problem. I support the small and medium size operations and oppose the large corporations controlling the market. Such problems are not easy to solve.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Lauren M: View Post
    ...Prohibition is what causes the violence. Not legalization and regulation...
    Last edited by Barry; 03-18-2018 at 12:42 PM.
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  23. TopTop #13
    Lauren M's Avatar
    Lauren M
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    Glad that we are on common ground regarding this. I am not a cannabis operator myself, but I am a patient and advocate for sensible public policy, including the medicinal and responsible adult use of cannabis. I am your neighbor, and if you have a small business then I am your patron, and I want your small business to succeed. I also want the small, locally-based businesses in the cannabis industry to succeed in this newly regulated market. Furthermore, I am a proponent of law and order, but now, legalization is the law of the land.

    I, too, oppose large corporations controlling the market, and most cannabis operators in the North Coast share this view as well. We all want to protect our community, our families, and our environment from damage caused by "Big Ag." Sonoma County's ordinance limits growers to one acre throughout the entire county, which is not that much land, and the parcels available for this are already limited based on zoning, setbacks, and other factors. Thus, there won't be big operations popping up left and right like some people seem to think. A one-acre farm is not enough for most large corporation to even be interested, and the majority of the current applicants are locals who want to operate in a safe and responsible manner.

    I hope to continue this dialogue with you and others who want to join in the conversation.

    Lauren Mendelsohn, Esq.
    Santa Rosa

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shepherd: View Post
    I agree with Lauren that prohibition is no solution...
    Last edited by Barry; 03-18-2018 at 12:44 PM.
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  25. TopTop #14
    O.W.'s Avatar
    O.W.
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    Chief Jay Tay, I think most people would support the small growers. If you see the size of the operations in the Healdsburg west hills (water scarce area) and the Petaluma operation, both will use 1 million gallons of water in their permit applications. Should your well dry up, you have NO recourse. Ask the folks in Bennett Valley areas and west county. Vineyards moved in and water quality and quantity down. Will this industry be any different? Time will tell.

    The supervisors should be trying to stop conflicts with this new industry. Other poster good point, those states trying to keep prohibition of cannabis are part of the problem for sure. My point was after looking at the wine industry run amok we need to look at problems sensibly.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay: View Post
    There are an estimated 10k growers in this county of 500k people. 1 in 50.

    STOP. Go back and read that first sentence again and think.

    The ONLY thing that is different is there's those trying to come out of the shadows.
    Or did you think the AG department (which I find seriously lacking in our county, but another matter) was inspecting their operations for the last 20-30-40-50 years?
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  27. TopTop #15
    ChefJayTay's Avatar
    ChefJayTay
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    Sadly, I don't see that at all. Yes water tables will be affected in the short term, but that's inevitable with any change. As I tried to point out before... there's already a crapton of pot grown in this county. I doubt there's going to be a big change. They have permits, are paying for them, and cities will like the taxes. Though their water consumption will be considerably less than wine production (much less cleaning & sanitation than wine, much more like a farm).

    People grew in the north not because it was perfect growing, it was (at least at one point) the best remote least likely to get busted location. Larger operations will largely not choose Sonoma because of the cost of water and real estate. There is something to be said for established operations going legal or public, but they will be fighting against operations that have cheaper base cost of operations. Really, the only reason for growers to be here is for marketing or established business ties.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by O.W.: View Post
    Chief Jay Tay, I think most people would support the small growers....
    Last edited by Barry; 03-19-2018 at 01:33 PM.
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  28. TopTop #16
    karenm97's Avatar
    karenm97
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    I can't find a link about what licenses have been applied for/granted, or the date of this article, tho I think it was published in the last 2 months...



    Why aren’t growers rushing for pot permits in Sonoma County?
    Last edited by Barry; 03-19-2018 at 01:36 PM.
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  29. TopTop #17
    SonomaPatientsCoop's Avatar
    SonomaPatientsCoop
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    Where to start here… Maybe with the idea that for 20 years neither the state nor the counties did their job to regulate to this industry- leading to both the abuses and the current problems of those who tried to do the right thing but did not have access to permitting, the waterboard, fish and wildlife, insurance, cal-OSHA etc etc now finding themselves with both a steep learning curve and insane costs of bringing things into compliance after the fact.

    Or that the big problems here really started with Obama and the Cole memo- when suddenly everyone felt they could grow a substantial crop in their backyard…

    Let’s be honest- there is a sizeable portion of the local cannabis industry who tried to respect the letter and the spirit of Prop 215 and SB 420. Who purchased or rented very large and very rural properties, and did their best (w/o any access to government agencies) to do the right thing re: building, grading, water use, etc. Many who kept most if not all of their product within CA.

    Then there were those whose only interest was money. Growing cannabis just good enough for export to other states, usually on as large a scale as they could.

    Cannabis DOES NOT belong in industrial areas. It is a plant- and a bioaccumulator at that. It should not be grown in the polluted soils of industrial areas. And to force plants to be grown indoors in warehouses, with the massive energy needs of lighting and climate control. This is surely the wrong path.

    Sonoma County has already banned growing IN RR and AR (rural residential and ag residential zonings, regardless of property size or the realities of the properties). Cultivation is only allowed in industrial, AG, ad RRD [ Resources and Rural Development] zonings. And the harsh reality is that while RRD is where much of the industry was pushed to 10-20 years ago, few of these properties can be permitted because the old (logging) roads don’t meet fire codes, the logging companies that once owned the land put in undersized culverts requiring tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in upgrades, and they are “water scarce” zones…and while many properties *could* have gotten water rights years ago, by nature of being cannabis farms they could not.


    I am a farmer. I own 100 acres in RRD land out between Cazadero and Fort Ross. I spent the last decade respecting the rules as they were- producing around 150+/- pounds a year. Of dozens of varieties- all of which went into the medical cannabis supply chain in CA. I paid to truck in water because I could not safely apply for water rights for our creek, our spring, or our two ponds. I spent thousands to comply with registering with the waterboard 2 years ago when we required to- one of the few in SoCo who did so. I’ve paid my taxes, including the EDD for the past few years we’ve been able to. Paid my square footage tax here in SoCo this past year as required.

    And I knew this industry was DOA when, at the first BOS meeting on cannabis after Lynda Hopkins was elected, supervisor Rabbit said…multiple times… “The cannabis industry doesn’t deserve any special treatment- it should be treated like any other industry”. While then voting to tax it. Regulate it. Require 100% clean energy… unlike any other industry in the state. While also ignoring that for two decades the industry had no safe access to government services.

    And…all the money I bring to the local economy- taxes, workers, supplies, etc, etc… are all going elsewhere next year. To a county that wants us. Probably somewhere between 50-100K in taxes, not including sales taxes etc that won’t be collected in the county. And we won’t be selling any product in SoCo, removing quite a bit more in taxes.

    And sorry Shepard- this is not meant as a personal attack…but for a long time, I have watched you here exemplify what I hate about West County. This bubble mindset- where you have figured out how the world “should be”…and every other viewpoint should be opposed and banned. I laugh (cry) when people say this area is liberal… it is full of selfish self-centered people who believe their view is the only one that matters. Our own twisted version of the tea party.

    This organization is only helping raise the barrier for those who want to do the right thing. And helping ensure the black market - with all of its problems remain. If people are actually interested in solving the problems around the cannabis industry first step would be putting pressure on Congress to reschedule cannabis and remove the economic incentive of moving product to prohibitionist states. Second would be to convince the state to find some way to secure the data of legal grows so it is not in a database that anyone could pull up.
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  31. TopTop #18
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    There a good article in PD on the various problems in the evolving area of cannabis growing:


    Neighbors balk as legal marijuana gains ground in Sonoma County

    JULIE JOHNSON
    THE PRESS DEMOCRAT | March 31, 2018

    David Drips has spent weeks tending cannabis seedlings and clones inside an old milking barn in rural Petaluma in preparation for the day he’d plant them in the ground.

    On Friday, that day arrived. With a pending permit and county permission to start, he and several others nestled plant after plant into the loamy soil at the windswept Nadale Ranch on Middle 2 Rock Road, where they’ll grow alongside several hundred head of dairy cows.

    But complaints against legal cannabis cultivation are mounting in some rural Sonoma County areas, from wooded enclaves west of Healdsburg to farmland outside Petaluma and narrow vineyard-lined lanes in rural Santa Rosa. Echoing concerns about traffic and water use often spurred by new wineries, critics of legal cannabis farms also question whether they will be safe living or working near marijuana farms.

    “The wind will be our biggest obstacle, other than the public opinion of our industry,” Drips said. “But neither can’t be overcome.”

    Yet local cultivators and out-of-town entrepreneurs seeking to take part in Sonoma County’s legal trade and broaden its farm-to-table ethos are colliding with neighborhood fears following several violent robberies linked to illicit marijuana. Property and zoning rights are pitted against safety concerns. Potential tax and other revenues are bumping up against fear of the illegal drug trade.

    “There are high emotions on both sides of the debate,” said Sonoma County Supervisor Lynda Hopkins, whose district includes a rural Santa Rosa neighborhood where one of the robberies occurred in February. “You have cultivators doing things above board and they’re worried about losing their livelihoods. On the other hand, you have a mom worried about her children growing up smelling pot outside his bedroom. It’s a very emotional conversation right now.”


    Continues here

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  33. TopTop #19
    SonomaPatientsCoop's Avatar
    SonomaPatientsCoop
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    I would like to add some thoughts here.

    First and foremost, the "problems" of violence we see around cannabis are a result of our society and our governmnets- not the plant, it's growers, its users, etc...

    That decades of Federal Prohibition of cannabis- placed in Schedule I (higher then cocaine or oxycodone), despite the fact that the scientific evidence does not support the legal framework of the schedules for this. Depending on how you view the scientific evidence- Schedule III would be the highest schedule one could make an argument for. There is a strong case it does not belong in ANY schedule and should be regulated like (the far more harmful substances) alcohol and tobacco.

    Add to this for 20 full years after the passage of Prop 215 neither the state nor the local governments did a $*%@ thing to regulate it and bring it out of the shadows. A problem made worse during the Obama administration with the Cole Memo which made everone here suddenly think they could have a lucrative side gig growing cannabis in their backyards.

    Of course- growing quality cannabis is not easy. And finding a "legal" market for sub-par cannabis in a saturated market led to people dealing with people they met through Craigslist, Budtrader, etc, etc... not to mention the out of state buyers who would flood CA at harvest time looking for anyone willing to sell.

    On to another issue- taxes. While I'll be the first to admit the county lowballed their expected revenue, I'd also argue they are now highballing the amount of "expected revenues". All while ignoring the amount spent- in everything from hiring new staff, to the county staff person hours spent on this issue over the past 1 1/2 +/- years, to the cost of the special election for cannabis taxes.

    Beyond the loss revenue from the current situation where few are being licensced the issue no one is talking about is the broader loss of tax revenue in the county. From conversations with business owners, employees, and general observations- the local grow shops are taking a huge hit. And to varying degrees- so are everyone from Harmony Farm Supply to Friedmans. Grab and Grow to our assorted local hardware stores, water trucking firms, soil trucking firms, well drillers and watertank suppliers, etc, etc,.

    Now...add to this the fact that many people in the industry facing uncertainty are greatly reducing their spending at a myriad of local stores and businesses.

    Now add to this that we are looking at thousands of newly unemployed, and many, many more people who used small cannabis grows to suplement their retirement- and we are looking at a substantial number of people who will be needing state social services. And probably even more who have been in the industry full time for years who will not have access to services because they could not safely pay into them for years, and who will have trouble finding "normal" jobs because they have been off the grid for many years.


    I remember at one of the Board of Supervisors meetings... Rabbit spinning a story about how he had been pressured by cannabis groups to go visit a grow they were holding up as an example of how things could be done right. And he said he was glad he didn't because he later found out they had "illegal" water use, "illegal" buildings, etc. I think I know the site referenced. So fair enough. Yes, there were "illegal" things there. But only because for 20 years Rabbit, his fellow BOS members and his predecessors failed to do their $(&! job . People never had the option of working with PMRD (now Permit Sonoma). Fish and Wildlife. NCWQCB (the waterboard) etc. Let me tell you a little secret- we all had to have "illegal" things on our land- because the county and the state did not give us an option. And another little secret- the only thing "illegal" on my land is the fire access/culverts put in by the former owner- Gualla Redowoods and/or a logging company. Every building, water use, solar electric, (organic) fertelizer and pesticide use, erosion control etc, etc on my land was done to code and also met CA-Osha , Dept of Ag, etc regulations. But of course Rabbit and his ilk can claim it's "illegal" because he and his ilk did not give us a way to make it legal in the only way it wasn't... on paper.


    I'll finish, for now at least, saying this pushback...well... it's coming from the place that all the worst things in my ~50 years have come from. Fear and ignorance of what they are railing against. In the article above that Barry posted it says a lot that the opposition, including apparently supervisor Rabbit, won't even meet with and discuss things with those in the cannabis industry.

    Actually... I'll finish saying... YES, I know there have been a lot of bad actors in this industry. A minority, but too many. And honest and fair regulation is the best way to deal with this. Allow the people who want...and have tried for years/decades to "do the right thing" a way to move forward. And... as we've already seen, especially with unlicensed delivery services- the legal industry will...and has pushed back.
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  35. TopTop #20
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    I support growing cannabis, but only in appropriate places, which I do not consider all rural neighborhoods to be. I am one of many elders who use cannabis for sleep. I do not think it should be prohibited.

    I do, however, have a concern that has not yet been expressed much in this thread. Since only 4% of the veggies and fruit sold in Sonoma County are grown here, my concern is with the diminishment of food ag. here. As more vineyards and cannabis operations move into this area, that reduces good ag. for food purposes. What food farmers can compete with the profits from wine and cannabis? We need more rural land for food farms, especially as things seem to be getting worse with the green rush and wine rush.

    When is enough enough? One can live without wine & cannabis, but not without food and water. Growing wine and cannabis consumes lots of water.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by SonomaPatientsCoop: View Post
    I would like to add some thoughts here...
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  37. TopTop #21
    SonomaPatientsCoop's Avatar
    SonomaPatientsCoop
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    Fair enough. But the battle you mention is already lost...and there is no turning back. I spent 15++ years in organic ag- more then 10 as owner/operator of a farm selling...mostly...to city restaurants I couldn't afford to eat at.

    The reality is, sadly- many people are being priced out of what used to be a sleepy little farm town. There's been, basically, zero new home construction since the economic collapse at the end of Bush Jr's tenure. Rental and ownership prices are through the roof. And wine- with their legality and backers have snapped up most of the good ag land. Cannabis is just fighting for the scraps that are left...

    And hey- I know plenty properties- from 60 to 500++ acres out in RRD land in Cazadero and up along the coast... the properties we pushed to 10+ years ago... that now, arguably could be permitted for cannabis but in reality can't be///at least not economically. We're al already getting contacted by the real estate vultures.....

    Look... I agree with you...for the most point. Grows shouldn't be allowed on small properties in RR or AR. But on large properties in AR, and on AG land- it should be totally permitable. It IS an acceptable use, and one can complain as much as they want, but it should carry no more weight then a complaint against any other permittable business in the zoning.

    And let us not forget- the cannabis industry is already being taxed and regulated unlike any other industry in CA.

    AND- I WILL ADD TO THIS... IT IS UNDER THE MICROSCOPE. RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT WOULD NOT BE UNDER CLOSE SCRUTINY FOR ANY OTHER BUSINESS ARE FOR THE CANNABIS INDUSTRY. EVERY i MUST BE DOTTED AND EVERY t MUST BE CROSSED. IN TRIPLICATE. FOR THE COUNTY. THE STATE. AND EVERY BLOODY AGENCY THAT MIGHT POSSIBLY HAVE A FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THIS INDUSTRY.

    And I must strongly disagree with Rabbit and many in the organization you promote- cannabis SHOULD NOT be grown in warehouses or outdoors in the most polluted (industrial zoning) areas of our county.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shepherd: View Post
    I support growing cannabis, but only in appropriate places, ...
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  39. TopTop #22
    Jeff Snook
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    The 'never cannabis' cabal has made many factually incorrect and hysterical claims though their website and wherever they can bend an ear but I feel it is time for me to address this nonsense put forward by Shepard. We will go in order.

    4% of the veggies sold in Sonoma are grown here. And the cabal wants cannabis grown in Sonoma to remain in Sonoma. No exports! Why is the cannabis industry tasked with supporting the 'sustainability' fantasies of the never cannabis folks. They pretend that this no export demand is reasonable and fairly imposed on cannabis and no other industry in Sonoma.

    The notion that cannabis is crowding out food production in Sonoma is absurd and truly naive. To conflate the cancerous spread of wine with the tiny land use for cannabis is dishonest and intentionally inflammatory. Wine=60,000+ acres....Cannabis=40 acres

    'We need rural land for food farms' ......How much more? Land availability is not the issue, there are hundreds if not thousands of acres of arable land in Sonoma that would fantastic for all types of food production but it is not being used. Why not? Mostly having to do with the cost of living in our little paradise. People growing food for other people are often living at a poverty level of income. As long as we are importing food from areas of the world where it is cheaper to grow than here we will continue to import and not pay the higher costs for food grown here. Maybe we should ban the import of everything into Sonoma as a next step. How many of the never cannabis thugs are supporting commercial food production on their land? I suspect there are more hobby vineyards and horse stables than productive food farms.

    'What food farmers can compete with the profits from wine and cannabis?' Again there is no competition from cannabis for arable land. You need to take this argument to the 'never wine' thread. Cannabis is actually one of the best ways to keep local food production up and operating in Sonoma. Someone interested in growing cannabis as a supplemental crop to their food production would find themselves in the very enviable position of having a valuable, popular, easy to sell product that will subsidise their food production allowing for a tiny bit of financial security. While this may sound interesting it is also just pure fantasy because the path to legal cannabis production is restrictive, expensive, byzantine, and littered with hysterical NIMBY's.

    Many of the outdoor cannabis farms are in areas that are zoned DA. This stands for Diverse Agriculture. Putting a house on a Diverse Agriculture parcel does not turn this area into a residential neighborhood.

    While I am as scared of cannabis related crime as every other resident of Sonoma County the actions taken by the NIMBY group, under the guise of disseminating information, and the lies and misinformation spread in order to inflame the ignorant, is deeply irresponsible and malicious.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shepherd: View Post
    I support growing cannabis, but only in appropriate places, which I do not consider all rural neighborhoods to be. I am one of many elders who use cannabis for sleep. I do not think it should be prohibited.

    I do, however, have a concern that has not yet been expressed much in this thread. Since only 4% of the veggies and fruit sold in Sonoma County are grown here, my concern is with the diminishment of food ag. here. As more vineyards and cannabis operations move into this area, that reduces good ag. for food purposes. What food farmers can compete with the profits from wine and cannabis? We need more rural land for food farms, especially as things seem to be getting worse with the green rush and wine rush.

    When is enough enough? One can live without wine & cannabis, but not without food and water. Growing wine and cannabis consumes lots of water.
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  41. TopTop #23
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    Thank you! Gratitude is not enough. i have been thinking about finding the time to respond. Grateful that you covered many of the points that i wanted to address.
    I was one of the small minority of voters who opposed the outrageous tax plan for cannabis growers.
    It is the only industry in our county, that i am aware of, that is taxed in production, taxed at processing, and taxed at sale--substantially at the production end.
    Small and sustainable should have an opportunity.
    Even the large growers, as opposed to the mega growers, the drug & tobacco industries, are trying to find a model to profitability--to compete with the large cap companies.
    Since i was among a small minority, i don't see a path to this which would be a solution for many who want to stay in this county and keep some economic (class/age) diversity
    I know of many who started growing cannabis to help get by during the economic downturn. Now a number of these people are still looking to this option to stay in an increasingly expensive county.
    i too am disheartened by NIMBY--for cannabis, for low cost housing downtown, for light industry, for charter schools, for so many projects that have had to fight for a place in a healthy community.
    If we wished to address some of the inequities and support our values why don't we look at similar taxation for new vineyards, with exemptions for "dry farming" to promote sustainability.
    I would love to see local taxation begin to represent what we value. Then again, i may be in a very small minority.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Jeff Snook: View Post
    The 'never cannabis' cabal has made many factually incorrect and hysterical claims though their website and wherever they can bend an ear but I feel it is time for me to address this nonsense put forward by Shepard. We will go in order....
    Last edited by Icssoma; 04-04-2018 at 10:04 AM. Reason: clarity
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  43. TopTop #24
    MikeH
    Guest

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    I made a complaint about what I considered a large plot put in next door, illegal, un-permitted, in RR [Rurual Residential] zoning. It was discontinued. If just a complaint to code enforcement didn't work I would have pursued other avenues. The first year crop I experienced I did smell some, but that was no big deal. There also were many vehicles coming to the property sometimes, but far from every day, it was sporadic. When they were preparing to put in the second year's crop there were lot's of trucks bringing in topsoil, re-constructing the greenhouses, etc. After they got prepared to put the second year's crop in they got the stop order.

    Now I see people in DA [Diverse Agriculture] zones complaining that a proposed permit would put one within only (?!) 300 feet of their residence. But 300 feet is a long distance. My whole property is only 278 feet deep. For one to go in 300 feet from my home it would need to be behind the back fence PLUS another 100 feet. A 300 foot setback would also eliminate both adjacent properties entirely, meaning lots both to the west and east are entirely within 300 feet so none of them could be used. All land in my neighborhood must be within 300 feet of one residence or another.

    What had been put in next door to me could have been robbed by using my property as a back entrance to it. It would have been easier to rob it going in my property and over the side fence than going straight in the front of the subject property. So it would have been a security risk imo. And when I walked out back on my place I heard some funny scurrying around within the fenced plot, as if someone with a pistol was roused to attention and running around trying to figure where the sound came from.

    Large DA properties with 300 foot setbacks to any adjoining homes does seem appropriate to me. 300 feet does not qualify as having it "right on top" of you.

    It will be interesting to see what happens on April 10th, and what direction will be given to "Permit Sonoma" as far as modification to the ordinance. It sounds like David Rabbitt is leaning toward banning it in favor indoor industrial. Shirley Zane may be inclined to go there as well. Susan Gorin not. The other two Sonoma County Alliance individuals usually just vote the same as David Rabbitt, but probably not in this case. I think James Gore is not a big fan of the industry.
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  44. TopTop #25
    karenm97's Avatar
    karenm97
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    "And when I walked out back on my place I heard some funny scurrying around within the fenced plot, as if someone with a pistol was roused to attention and running around trying to figure where the sound came from." So you basically snitched because you were paranoid? Wow. It sounds like you were hearing their security staff? Would you have had a problem with a small produce farmer having stuff delivered and greenhouses set up?

    People can't help the zoning of their properties (I understand it would be expensive and costly in terms of time and possible disappointment).

    #stopsnitching please!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by MikeH: View Post
    I made a complaint about what I considered a large plot put in next door, illegal, un-permitted, in RR [Rurual Residential] zoning. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 04-05-2018 at 10:09 AM.
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  45. TopTop #26
    MikeH
    Guest

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    "So you basically snitched because you were paranoid?"

    What an absolutely stupid thing to say. I damn sure got rid of it. And if the easy way didn't get it the situation would have been escalated.

    Are you growing illegally without a permit? Let me know where; I'll come check it out.
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  46. TopTop #27

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    In my first reply to Shepherd's post, I asked 'How can we have a collective dialogue' - come together in preparation for bigger issues to come in 2023. Some of the comments here are disheartening - vigilantism when not curbed becomes a mob mentality. I think it's safe to say that *most people here have done something not legal. Red-tagged home addition? Speeding? Fence higher than it was supposed to be? Dog barking past dark out in the yard? I'm sure we could all spend ages policing our neighbors. Or, we could become friends with them, and realize we are ALL integral parts of the community.
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  48. TopTop #28
    karenm97's Avatar
    karenm97
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    Well, this sure got ugly. I wish I could say, "Thanks so much, everyone, for making this such a welcoming and supportive community. Glad we're all able to work together to solve problems and set a wonderful example for our neighbors." :(

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by MikeH: View Post
    "So you basically snitched because you were paranoid?"

    What an absolutely stupid thing to say. I damn sure got rid of it....
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  50. TopTop #29
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    There have been the same kinds of "dialogue"?? on Nextdoor, with some encouraging to turn neighbors in...for all kinds of activities, even non cannabis related......very sad. The thread was discontinued because of the "violent communication", from the anti-cannabis community who were fear mongering about potential cannabis "violence". A true lack of awareness at an essential level, is pitting people against each other. Wouldn't Trump be proud?

    Thank you for your wisdom and true community spirit. We need more like you!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Heidi M: View Post
    In my first reply to Shepherd's post, I asked 'How can we have a collective dialogue' - come together in preparation for bigger issues to come in 2023. Some of the comments here are disheartening - vigilantism when not curbed becomes a mob mentality. I think it's safe to say that *most people here have done something not legal. Red-tagged home addition? Speeding? Fence higher than it was supposed to be? Dog barking past dark out in the yard? I'm sure we could all spend ages policing our neighbors. Or, we could become friends with them, and realize we are ALL integral parts of the community.
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  52. TopTop #30
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Save Our Sonoma Neighborhoods - for common sense cultivation of commercial marijuana r

    In my almost 30 years of living in west county, (& my partner in philo growing 10 years earlier), neither of us know of violence. we know of four break ins where people stole plants. (3 years ago, we knew of a neighbor who had their plants cut down by authorities, and a similar situation 30 years ago in the eastern part of this county-- no violence in either situation--one party hid, the other fled).
    we read about the incident on ross road. we didn't know anyone connected with that either.
    i don't know anyone personally who has grown who is armed (including 3 significant players in sonoma & humboldt on a large scale.).
    it isn't worth it to them for violence for a $50-100k crop. it happens (now the grows will be worth about 30% less, with a 20-30% taxation, & lots of rules & regulations).
    i have read about other people/growers "in the mountains", who have fighting dogs, and wild animals. i don't know any of them personally, nor through acquaintances.

    things can and do happen. i too believe much of this hate/negativity is fear mongering.
    it breaks my heart to see these conversations divide us, not only here, but in topics where i also thought we could find some common ground (downtown housing, bike paths, you name it.)
    where is our loving, progressive community.

    grateful for your post Shandi.

    would be great to hear from those who have lived with it, around it, had friends grow, or had a dramatically different experience in sonoma county and the larger emerald triangle.

    we need to avoid sensational news, and fear mongering stories. Shandi is right. exactly what the orange man would want.
    we must find ways to do better.
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