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  1. TopTop #1
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    Regarding the rebuilding of Coffey Park:

    - Shirley Zane, Sonoma Co Supervisor, was quoted in the SF Chronicle: "the rebuilt neighborhood should include 'grocery stores, dog parks, smarter senior housing, single-family homes, higher-density stuff.' She added that 'we have to respect the homeowners, but I do think a lot of people ó particularly the newer generation ó are open to something other than this suburban sprawl we are all so stuck in.'"

    - One resident: ďI want them to build back Coffey the way it was and to build it as fast as possible Ö The last thing I want is somebody re-imagining my neighborhood.Ē

    -
    Mayor Chris Coursey acknowledged the homeowners there must undertake a great rebuilding effort, but ďI donít think that gives the greater community the right to tell them what to do with their properties.Ē

    Analysis of California's housing crisis & shortages, recommends higher density development, especially along coastal areas, such as Sonoma County. See last years' CA Legislative Analyst Report on Housing. The problem is that current residents of coastal communities, such as Coffey Park, don't want higher densities. The result is a shortage of housing and rising prices. Higher densities in the Bay Area can be found at new construction near transit lines. However, existing communities have resisted higher densities.

    Plz see the PD article below.

    http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/75...-of?artslide=0
    Last edited by tommy; 11-07-2017 at 11:03 AM.
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  3. TopTop #2

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    City officials said they donít plan to initiate discussions on redeveloping Coffey Park.
    Does that sound scary to anybody but me? How do YOU spell "Agenda 21?"
    Last edited by Barry; 11-08-2017 at 02:23 PM.
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  5. TopTop #3
    juna
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    Higher density, gas stations, senior housing, dog parks and other high density as Supervisor Zane is promoting needs to be included in Fountaingrove rebuilding if politicians truly believe it is the best for All neighborhoods.

    Diversification of neighborhoods creates welcoming neighborhoods....not cookie cutter development.
    Supervisor Zane is not to be trusted as she sold out a women's shelter, bird sanctuary and wellness center to a big developer in the Chanate hospital sweet deal. Would be interesting to know if the big developer supported her political campaign
    Quote tommy wrote: View Post
    Regarding the rebuilding of Coffey Park:

    - Shirley Zane, Sonoma Co Supervisor, was quoted in the SF Chronicle: "the rebuilt neighborhood should include 'grocery stores, dog parks, smarter senior housing, single-family homes, higher-density stuff.' She added that 'we have to respect the homeowners, but I do think a lot of people ó particularly the newer generation ó are open to something other than this suburban sprawl we are all so stuck in.'"
    ....

    Plz see the PD article below.

    http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/75...-of?artslide=0
    Last edited by Barry; 11-08-2017 at 02:28 PM.
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  7. TopTop #4
    MikeH
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    Yes it is thick and deep. Money, campaign contributions, and more. Look at the appointment to the planning commission for the 3rd district, Oakmont Senior living spokesperson and project manager Komron S.

    From the Press Demo-

    Feb 6, 2017 - Developer Bill Gallaher and his team would pay as much as $12.5 million in cash ... Chanate Road in Santa Rosa to a prominent local developer who wants to build .... Komron Shahhosseini, project manager for the proposed ...

    Planning commissioner Komron Shahhosseini 3rd District [email protected]

    And look at this embarrassing nonsense involving Komron:

    http://www.northbaybusinessjournal.c...ion?artslide=0




    Oakmont Senior Living under new investigation following Santa Rosa fire

    Workers entered a locked-down fire zone in Santa Rosa last week with an excavator and dump trucks and began demolishing a Fountaingrove senior care facility before the ruins had been searched for bodies and toxic materials, according to city and county officials.

    ďWe were very much trying to act in good faith and do what was required of us, and we did,Ē said Komron Shahhosseini, director of site acquisition and development for Oakmont Senior Living.

    You were caught with your pants down Komron, cut the nonsense.
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  9. TopTop #5
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    I'm pretty sure the "big developer" in question is Bill Gallaher and he's got his fingers in lots of local political pies. I think I read recently that he's even involved in the re-building talk.

    Quote juna wrote: View Post
    Higher density, gas stations, senior housing, dog parks and other high density as Supervisor Zane is promoting needs to be included in Fountaingrove rebuilding if politicians truly believe it is the best for All neighborhoods.

    Diversification of neighborhoods creates welcoming neighborhoods....not cookie cutter development.
    Supervisor Zane is not to be trusted as she sold out a women's shelter, bird sanctuary and wellness center to a big developer in the Chanate hospital sweet deal. Would be interesting to know if the big developer supported her political campaign
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  11. TopTop #6
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    what can we say about Shirlee Zane that's even a little flattering, maybe the way she does her hair. zane is always imagining things shirlee's way. one doesn't hear her going on and on about whether FountainGrove shouldn't look (again) like a sprawling monstrosity for the rich with homes that are ridiculous or that it's, perhaps, just not a good idea Shirlee to repeat the fire corridor just to favor the wealthy. but, Shirlee has bent over for the wealthy for a long time whether that's the wine industry or business. she has no moral compass, and is a Supervisor for the privileged, it's always about the $$$
    Zane opposes any oversight of law enforcement and that is my main gripe about her. she groveled over Freitas every chance she got, she would Never oppose any $$$ requests they came to the BOS with no matter how ridiculous their requests. she approved $200k simulator for them for no good reason and doesn't help the police or the public whatsoever and she actually says, the public should never have input on police or review their policies because they need to be governed by their own like the "military"
    really, really! shirlee doesn't seem to grasp that the Police are NOT the military and we don't want Military Police.
    so, i'm gonna go so far to say, that Shirlee might have her screwy vision of Coffey Park, and then we can have the fun/fun deputies police the area to make sure it stays in tip-top shape.
    and if you think i'm being a bit harsh, it's just that i watched her in action for over the last 3 years at the BOS and when i realized that Chanate was an opportunity for so many more uselful projects for the communities that need better serving, like for women, or the homeless, or a clinic, etc, i realized she was never going to do the right thing, and we're never get any leadership from her.


    Quote juna wrote: View Post
    Higher density, gas stations, senior housing, dog parks and other high density as Supervisor Zane is promoting needs to be included in Fountaingrove rebuilding if politicians truly believe it is the best for All neighborhoods.

    Diversification of neighborhoods creates welcoming neighborhoods....not cookie cutter development.
    Supervisor Zane is not to be trusted as she sold out a women's shelter, bird sanctuary and wellness center to a big developer in the Chanate hospital sweet deal. Would be interesting to know if the big developer supported her political campaign
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  13. TopTop #7
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    This does sound harsh, and personal... even mentioning her hair? God help any man who would have made those comments. I don't attend alot of BOS meetings, & I don't follow the details going on at the County level. I did attend a few of the public meetings on the Chenate property, and that process involved the public in setting priorities for development of the area. I think Shirlee has been supportive of efforts to help the homeless. She is a skilled leader in building consensus to move forward... which doesn't mean that everyone's favorite projects get approved.

    Quote beshiva wrote: View Post
    what can we say about Shirlee Zane that's even a little flattering, maybe the way she does her hair. ...
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  15. TopTop #8
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    well, talk is cheap. - oh hell,
    can't even pin the City Council down to do anything about the homeless, in fact, They stepped up their infraction ordinances concerning the homeless, and now they can be fined larger amounts of $$ and jail time, and they passed a homes first proposal over a year ago.
    what has the BOS done? where are the tiny homes, the shelters, etc. i will give you though, that it's now a dire situation with the fires and both City Council and BOS must get down to seriously be providing for the increased homeless population.
    it's a sad testament though that now that the fires destroyed so very much, displaced so many people, the County must address the homeless problem, when before the homeless were this overwhelming (problem) they just couldn't find a way to improve people's lives.
    just providing porta-potties has been discussed ad nauseam as if providing a basic need for people is so damn difficult!
    i'll say it again, "talk is cheap"

    Quote tommy wrote: View Post
    This does sound harsh, ....
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  17. TopTop #9
    MikeH
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    What was the point of even starting this topic, I don't understand? It seems the first, originating post, suggests that Coffee Park should include more high density housing.

    A county supervisor seems to, at one point at least, suggest it be re-zoned. That the whole area could be treated like a redevelopment zone, property re-zoned. Probably including mixed use. Grocery store with high density apartments within a very short walking distance, and single family homes. A mix of housing types with the highest density closest to the store and retail.

    It's all private property though, with existing zoning firmly in place. And property owners and former homeowners understandably got charged up at the suggestion their properties could be played games with.

    Maybe when it is rebuilt it could include some granny units above garages. But any thoughts of playing with zoning would get very contentious. Even just changing some single family homesites into duplexes would change the character of the neighborhood and add congestion so it would be contested.
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  19. TopTop #10
    Goat Rock Ukulele's Avatar
    Goat Rock Ukulele
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    I don't understandi what is being suggested here. The lots are already owned by private individuals for the most part. They will rebuild or sell their lots. I don't see the city or anyone else saying they can't. That would be a very good way to get thrown out of office, the thing most poliicians fear above all else.
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  21. TopTop #11
    synesthesia_amnesia
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    Some of us don't like Zane or the BOS, and have a good reason to be critical and cynical when it comes to their intentions, and we're entitled to our opinions and feelings. For some of us (especially longtime SoCo residents) who are feeling the economic squeeze and are seeing the unique character of SoCo vanish before our eyes, it feels personal. Each time the BOS acts on behalf of their own political and financial interests, it feels personal. In fact, I think I would question how much someone truly loved living here if they didn't feel a twinge of resentment towards Zane and her colleagues and didn't voice any dissenting views.
    Last edited by Barry; 11-12-2017 at 11:54 AM.
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  23. TopTop #12
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    I started the thread, to explore ideas in a PD article, regarding rebuilding Coffey Park, and Sup Zane's comments about changes to the neighborhood, to include a grocery store, and higher density housing. Related issues raised are the high cost of housing, the homeless, and Sonoma Co Bd of Supervisors policies.

    While "talk may be cheap"... talk is the nature of this forum, and public discourse in general... tho obviously civil discourse is often hijacked by extreme views or those with the loudest voices.

    The City of SR and the County made housing a top priority a year ago or so. The City created a plan, identifying potential development sites, ones that were stalled, etc. The County moved forward on supportive housing, creating the possibility for more 2nd units and shared housing. The County build a tiny house community (12 houses) on County land, for the homeless. They opened more shelters last winter. The City has continued to push the homeless out of downtown. There is a non spoken reticence to be more helpful to the homeless, our of fear of attracting more homeless. The State has passed or is in process with millions of funding for affordable housing. All these improvements started with "talk". Any of these can be criticized as not enough or contentious. Any government official can be slammed with accusations and criticism, regardless of how well intentioned. These government representatives didn't create the problems or the homeless - they deal day by day with solutions.

    Where does this leave us? The way forward is to work for more housing, more affordable housing, higher density housing, and housing for the homeless. I'm sure there will be some talk involved...
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  25. TopTop #13
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    Lol- sorry if Iíve offended your sensibilities. Iím well aware that butter doesnít melt in my mouth. It is obvious that criticizing our elected officials- the touchy subject... however, what's really hijacked, are our homeless. Itís always too little too late from our officials.
    12 tiny houses might be a reason to applaud but with anywhere from 2-3000 homeless on the streets each night I canít get too excited.
    Housing is stalled because itís always stalled thatís why the last city council meeting where people came with (simulated) water bottles filled with urine they were trying to convey the urgency of the situation and asking them to provide basic, basic , provisions, like porta-potties. discouraging the homeless by penalizing them further, with fines, and/or jail time, to discourage more homeless from coming is so bizarre, i'm appalled at the approach; the moral and ethical stance on this sort of thinking is troubling in the very least and Not a solution.
    Yes, this is a complex problem but I will not slap our elected officials on the back, be it city or county for a modicum of improvement when the hole is gaping. And now, with the fires,
    Itís even more urgent.
    I realize itís so hard to imagine the county literally turning over property, buildings to this problem and they canít and wonít nilly-willy do this but when people watch year after year the county ďSay they recognize they have to find solutions and so little is done, all you have to do is look on the streets, frustrations rise.
    Too too little too late is often the result.
    And since staying ďon topicĒ, is so damn important and not the circumstances which creates many problems, including homelessness I definitely donít want to go on a tirade about how our elected representatives are most definitely a component to creating our homeless (problem).
    so "moving forward" - what will that look like and Mean!?
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  27. TopTop #14
    scamperwillow's Avatar
    scamperwillow
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    I love the idea of some "redesign" in that large single family subdivision. Of course it must be with property owners permission. But I have a feeling many will not want to rebuild there or can't wait for the time it will take. Those people could sell their lot to a developer that might be able to merge some lots to build some higher density housing (more housing for local residents), some mixed use, some retail. Maybe even cohousing! It could make the neighborhood even better than it as with willing sellers of course.

    Also with a developer building multiple houses at one time, it might be faster to get people back into homes.
    Last edited by Barry; 11-13-2017 at 11:22 AM.
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  29. TopTop #15
    rossmen
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    Coffey has some big lots. If Santa Rosa just waived permit and development fees, and cut people a break on increased assessment (for affordability), rebuilding would be more dense than what was there, through the choices of current owners and new investors. So far a little bit of the first part, none of the second. The biggest obstacle to this simple plan is local democracy. Would you want 4 condos next door in what was a 1/4 acre sfr?
    Last edited by Barry; 11-13-2017 at 11:22 AM.
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  31. TopTop #16
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    It's only small programs for the homeless, such as the 12 Tiny Houses, that will work... because they're small and relatively easy to control.

    Did you see the huge public outcry in Guerneville, when providers and the County suggested buying a property on Armstrong Woods Road, for a homeless shelter? At the meeting chaired by Supervisor Hopkins, they took a vote on moving forward on that property, and it was only the staff of the W Co Community Health Center that was in favor. The proposal was dropped after that.

    Why was it dropped? None of the neighbors wanted it. There's a whole other side to homeless that needs to be considered to understand the situation. The homeless have many social problems, addictions, and bad behavior. Rent a place to a homeless person, and all of a sudden there's a continuous trail of people coming over to take showers, camp, park, hang out, get loaded, store their stuff there, etc. This is why the helping hand only goes so far. Open a center for the homeless, and you'll be inundated with homeless from all over coming to take advantage of it. This reality of the homeless will always limit the government response.

    Quote beshiva wrote: View Post
    ...
    12 tiny houses might be a reason to applaud but with anywhere from 2-3000 homeless on the streets each night I canít get too excited. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 11-14-2017 at 02:07 PM.
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  33. TopTop #17
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    Look, Iím a little confused, frustrated and honestly, disgusted too; as the social illiteracy of these deep problems call for more than a kneejerk reaction, yet, I recognize how awful this dialog has become, especially now, with these comments which tell us - some people donít want to explore or begin to understand the problems of homelessness, and all Iím reading here is a sad, superficial perspective and lame explanation of what the homeless are and are not, or what has supposedly been done (which by the way, is very very little)

    there are no tiny homes (yet), and the Sam Jones shelter added more beds to an already overcrowded situation- that does not compute to saying the County has opened more shelters, not by any stretch.
    Iím floored that the true feelings of so many concerning the homeless comes down to flat out discrimination of those who are already down, so why not give them a kick while we are at it.

    Iíve said before on this thread, there are many people who find themselves homeless for a myriad of reasons and not ALL homeless people are defecating in the doorways, or stealing or just being a nuisance- not by a long shot. But itís easy to demonize the least amongst us. (AND, where does one go to the bathroom when there are NO BATHROOMS?)

    Since the County and the City hasnít had a plan of any real positive impact to help the homeless I really donít think anyone has to worry more people will come because itís so grand here- you neednít worry about that
    And before anyone becomes righteous about the haves and have nots, letís be clear, one certainly doesnít have to be homeless to have social problems, or addictions or bad behavior! We donítí have to look too far to take note, our very own past Supervisor Efren Carrillo, a supposed leader of the community, exhibited this exact ďbad behavior and addiction and then some, only to be vindicated- no surprise there. So many down and out folks would appreciate such forgiveness!

    Iím disappointed there is not more of a healthy dialog to actually SOLVE the problem of homelessness, which now is going to increase, rather than lighting a match and start the fire of intolerance.
    Iím not naive about shitty stuff which hangs over our County like the bad air from the most recent tragedy.
    We must find a solution or it will bite us in the ass. We must include the homeless in the process and not demand they jump through hoops they canít jump through.

    I donít want to see temporary shelters, I want people to be able to live, permanently in a tiny home, or an apartment, or a designated living space, like Camp Rembrance (formerly Camp Michela) where they are self-governed, and I Want and expect the community at large, those of us who have MORE, to move over and as damn difficult as it may be, accept being more of a giver than a taker and life will be better for everyone; take the leap.

    And, finally, Iím tired of the rhetoric of intolerance. on a national level it's over the top....I lived in the West County for over 40 years, Iím not ignorant of the problems..so dammit, we work together and we find answers/long-lasting solutions and some will work and some wonít- but we keep trying because We are Community!!
    Last edited by Barry; 11-14-2017 at 02:10 PM.
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  35. TopTop #18
    Dorothy Friberg's Avatar
    Dorothy Friberg
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    Officials are NOT going to really address the problems of homelessness. People who were burned out were sent to Catholic Charities and were immediately spirited away for immediate assistance and referrals while people waiting in the shower lines,(a euphemism for serving the homeless) still wait. Officials do not have the WILL for dealing with the homeless problem, but they sure have a WON'T. Look what happened in Guerneville; the NIMBYS shouted down the plan for buying a large private property (with buildings) because it was too near the school. NEWS FLASH - many of the children who attend the school are homeless, but that doesn't count unless the same officials have their hands out for the Feds to contribute $$$ for the "homeless".
    I could go on, I am passionate about this and I want you all to know that there ARE people who are grateful for your compassion. (Including the Friday morning outreach folks from St Rose Church).

    BTW one reason folks congregate under the overpasses is to avoid rain and weather. Another is because people drop of dollar and five dollar bills. Please forego the latter, it does not usually go to good places.
    Last edited by Barry; 11-14-2017 at 02:11 PM.
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  37. TopTop #19
    findhorn
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    What about the homeless shelter arrangement in San Rafael? Seems it provides alot and is working, tho i have only heard by word of mouth and honestly don't know firsthand. Is anyone familiar with it and if it is succeeding?
    Last edited by Barry; 11-14-2017 at 02:12 PM.
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  38. TopTop #20
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    Quote findhorn wrote: View Post
    What about the homeless shelter arrangement in San Rafael? Seems it provides alot and is working, tho i have only heard by word of mouth and honestly don't know firsthand. Is anyone familiar with it and if it is succeeding?
    Are you referring to the free dining room & support services, provided by St Vincent de Paul Society... on B St in downtown San Rafael? It is a sweet place, altho it's only open for lunch & counseling.

    Not mentioned so far in this conversation is one of the primary causes of homelessness: the economy. Since the heyday of our economy in the late 60s & early 70s, rents have gone up dramatically, and jobs have disappeared... which are some of the primary causes of homelessness. Homelessness is a national problem - throughout California, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Hawaii, New York City... all over.
    Last edited by Barry; 11-15-2017 at 02:16 PM.
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  40. TopTop #21
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans


    please, please take the time to watch the SR City Council Meeting last night. speaking more eloquently than i ever could, these people sharing the heart-wrenching reality of homelessness and take note that Not One person on city council would second Julie Combs motion- where are all these people going to go? do people just miraculously disappear?
    Last edited by Barry; Yesterday at 02:05 PM.
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  42. TopTop #22
    Dorothy Friberg's Avatar
    Dorothy Friberg
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    Homelessness is a very complex problem. There are no simple answers. Whose fault is it, what are the solutions....As Jesus reportedly said some years ago "the poor you will always have with you". There were wanderers even then. Inability to keep up with society's changes and self-medicating through various means to dull senses or explore 'adulthood' is age-old. Jack London was one such wanderer, he hung out in the Oakland public library, as he wandered about the waterfront and the Suisun marsh. We have to remember that these are OUR brothers, mothers, children. As disgusting as some behaviors are, even as we set limits, communication must remain open. Reach out, set limits, but do not turn your back.

    We have created a pseudo support system and many youth seeking independence, druggies,(pardon the word), jobless, etc. exploit the system we have in place. If you know such persons who might use training in carpentry, The Carpenter's Union will be doing a local carpenter's training for the post-fire rebuild. Get the word out.
    Last edited by Barry; Yesterday at 02:07 PM.
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  44. TopTop #23
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    i agree there are NO simple answers. but, if we do not try, then there will be no answers. as stated so well by some last night at the City Council meeting, to not even open up the discussion, as brought by Julie Combs, to address some avenues of shelter, is outrageous...can't believe, not even Jack Tibbets (whom i thought had not started to walk the sell-out line, quite yet) is outrageous and very sad, we'll watch people evicted from under the overpass, approximately 100 people, to prove a point and i am not sure what point that is?

    another quote i think of (thinking of Jack London), "not All who Wander are lost", last night, so well stated by Scott Wagner, yes, there are homeless people who will not avail themselves to shelter and the question as to "WHY", befuddles many of us. but, are we really here to demonize those people or work with them? Scott has been doing this for a long time but instead of giving up, he searches for answers and each and everyone of the SR Council should be doing the same, Dammit!

    Jim Dewitt, longtime involved activist, told the City Council, what they can DO Now, a shelter which is available in Roseland. So my question is WHY NOT? why is there no response by our officials. well, most of the time i realize that our elected officials just don't want to solve a damn thing, not the city council, not the BOS- they are hard asses, and they refuse to listen to the very people they represent. why have we allowed this, that's what we need to ask ourselves!

    Quote Dorothy Friberg wrote: View Post
    Homelessness is a very complex problem. ...
    Last edited by Barry; Yesterday at 02:10 PM.
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  46. TopTop #24

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    No doubt they will all be rounded up and taken to FEMA camps because we don't even have enough room in our prisons to hold all the homeless folks now. This situation is so dreadful I don't think most of us really even understand what has happened and what is going on now and what is to come.
    Praying for Peace in PeaceTown
    Rev. BE

    Quote beshiva wrote: View Post

    please, please take the time to watch the SR City Council Meeting last night. speaking more eloquently than i ever could, these people sharing the heart-wrenching reality of homelessness and take note that Not One person on city council would second Julie Combs motion- where are all these people going to go? do people just miraculously disappear?
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  47. TopTop #25
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: Coffey Park residents wary of grand plans

    they took people off today- criminalizing homelessness, and that's what the great County of Sonoma has to offer our most underprivileged, in a county of the privileged.
    Olivares is running for Sheriff- shame on him! shame on all in the City Council, except for Julie Combs, who at least tried. So we know where Olivares stands when it comes to the homeless- "lock em up"! way to solve it, ey.
    wow.

    Quote Allorrah Be wrote: View Post
    No doubt they will all be rounded up and taken to FEMA camps because we don't even have enough room in our prisons to hold all the homeless folks now. This situation is so dreadful I don't think most of us really even understand what has happened and what is going on now and what is to come.
    Praying for Peace in PeaceTown
    Rev. BE
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