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  1. TopTop #1
    JimmyL's Avatar
    JimmyL
     

    New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Across from Taylor Maid. Who's doing that ?
    Last edited by Barry; 09-10-2017 at 02:03 PM.
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  3. TopTop #2
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Quote JimmyL wrote: View Post
    Across from Taylor Maid. Who's doing that ?
    The new 60 room Barlow Hotel Proposal was submitted by Peter Stanley with ArchiLOGIX.

    It is at a different location than the previous Barlow Hotel proposal.

    This will be discussed at the Tuesday, September 12th, Planning Commission Meeting
    7pm at the Sebastopol Community Center Youth Annex, 425 Morris Street.

    More info about that meeting is here.

    The site is across from Taylor Maid:


    A 4 story building is being proposed:
    Name:  barlowhotellarge.jpg
Views: 1257
Size:  68.2 KB


    Full staff report is here.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-11-2017 at 10:58 AM.
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  5. TopTop #3
    KWinter
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    I read the flyer about the 9/12 meeting that was posted on the foundry door, and I think it said that public comments at the meeting would be restricted to changes from the original proposal -- what original proposal?? Is this a proposal for another hotel development, or a move and redesign of the one already discussed across from the plaza? If there will be two Barlow Hotels, yikes! If only the one, why not on the original parcel, where the existing structures have been demolished -- I thought that was a done deal, after much huffing and puffing on all sides.

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    The new 60 room Barlow Hotel Proposal was submitted by Peter Stanley with ArchiLOGIX.

    It is at a different location than the previous Barlow Hotel proposal.

    This will be discussed at the Tuesday, September 12th, Planning Commission Meeting
    7pm at the Sebastopol Community Center Youth Annex, 425 Morris Street.

    More info about that meeting is here.

    The site is across from Taylor Maid:


    Full staff report is here.
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  7. TopTop #4
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Quote KWinter wrote: View Post
    I read the flyer about the 9/12 meeting ...
    This proposal is completely separate from the approved new hotel project across from the plaza. That hotel is not a "Barlow Hotel".

    The Barlow had received approval for a hotel at a different location within the Barlow (that is now in use by new tenants). So I believe this will be essentially treated as a new project, but there may be some approvals that carry over.

    There should be a presentation by the developer at Tuesday's Preliminary Review at the Planning Commission's meeting. There should also be time for public comment. The project will require a re-zoning. See the staff report for more details.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-12-2017 at 02:16 PM.
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  9. TopTop #5
    jesswolfe's Avatar
    jesswolfe
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    This is instead of the other hotel proposed? Or in addition to?
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  10. TopTop #6
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Quote jesswolfe wrote: View Post
    This is instead of the other hotel proposed? Or in addition to?
    This proposed hotel is IN ADDITION to the approved hotel project on the plaza.
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  12. TopTop #7
    Roberta Llewellyn's Avatar
    Roberta Llewellyn
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    What is up with the new location? It could be fun; except, the hotel seems to be pretty expensive. So, can we meet for drinks to discuss how to make it real? This could be fun, really; think about it!
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  13. TopTop #8
    jerichsalud's Avatar
    jerichsalud
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Any reports from the planning commission meeting? The City of Sonoma just rejected a boutique hotel in favor of housing and I think Sebastopol has similar needs whereas another boutique hotel would exacerbate the very challenging housing situation we are already in. Here's info from the Sonoma hotel decision http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7413822-181/developer-drops-plans-for-controversial?artslide=0

    Interestingly, the Barlow was planned for housing back in 2006 -- "At the time, the city wanted to bulldoze all the old buildings and rebuild the center of Sebastopol around 300 new housing units and 100,000 square feet of retail,” http://www.northbaybiz.com/General_Articles/General_Articles/Reinventing_the_Barlow.php
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  15. TopTop #9
    ywv's Avatar
    ywv
    Supporting Member

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    I appreciate your posting and agree 100%. Even though housing doesn't bring in TOT or sales tax for the City of Sebastopol. Reasonably priced housing is where the need is before another Boutique (high price) Hotel.

    Quote jerichsalud wrote: View Post
    Any reports from the planning commission meeting? The City of Sonoma just rejected a boutique hotel in favor of housing and I think Sebastopol has similar needs whereas another boutique hotel would exacerbate the very challenging housing situation we are already in. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 09-21-2017 at 02:14 AM.
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  16. TopTop #10
    Magick's Avatar
    Magick
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Those were market rate houses, that would not have helped the housing situation of the low or even medium income. That is why we organized and stopped it.

    Quote jerichsalud wrote: View Post
    ...Interestingly, the Barlow was planned for housing back in 2006 -- "At the time, the city wanted to bulldoze all the old buildings and rebuild the center of Sebastopol around 300 new housing units and 100,000 square feet of retail,” More info
    Last edited by Barry; 09-22-2017 at 02:38 AM.
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  18. TopTop #11
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Housing is housing.

    It's well documented that that one of the principle forces driving up the cost of housing in CA is all the opposition to any new housing proposed. The result is a continued shortage of housing, which drives the price up.

    Quote Magick wrote: View Post
    Those were market rate houses, that would not have helped the housing situation of the low or even medium income. That is why we organized and stopped it.
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  20. TopTop #12
    Magick's Avatar
    Magick
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    I always feel more secure when a man explains things to me and he knows that his opinion is well-documented.

    Quote tommy wrote: View Post
    Housing is housing.

    It's well documented that that one of the principle forces driving up the cost of housing in CA is all the opposition to any new housing proposed. The result is a continued shortage of housing, which drives the price up.
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  22. TopTop #13
    jerichsalud's Avatar
    jerichsalud
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Thank you, Magick for the clarification. That was information that was not included in the article. I agree we need affordable housing and that market rate housing is not as effective if we want diverse communities and to provide housing that is accessible to our vulnerable community members.

    This research might be of interest: UC Berkeley researches found through their research on Bay Area housing that among other things, "both market-rate and subsidized housing development can reduce displacement pressures, but subsidized housing is twice as effective as market-rate development at the regional level."
    Seems like a good reason to prioritize affordable housing and especially in the midst of this unprecedented housing crisis.

    Jacob

    Quote Magick wrote: View Post
    Those were market rate houses, that would not have helped the housing situation of the low or even medium income. That is why we organized and stopped it.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-23-2017 at 03:08 AM.
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  24. TopTop #14
    Larry Robinson's Avatar
    WaccoBB Poet Laureate

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    In 2003 the Sebastopol City Council recognized that the old apple processing district in the northeast area of the city would eventually come under pressure to develop. The General Plan at the time allowed for what we now see there - a tourist oriented, low density zone that few of us local residents visit for more than a loaf of Village Baker's great bread or a cup of coffee at Taylor Maid.

    We wanted to guide development in a different direction, one that would be a higher density, pedestrian oriented mix of residential and retail, similar to Windsor's new downtown or Petaluma's Theater District.

    The Northeast Area Plan for the area now mostly occupied by The Barlow called for 300 units of new housing, 20% of which would be affordable to low income families. The housing would have been in the upper stories of buildings occupied by retail and commercial businesses on the ground floor. All new construction, including streets and sidewalks, would have been on a platform raised above the 100 year flood level, with parking below.

    It would have provided Sebastopol an extension of our downtown with a public plaza not surrounded by a state highway. McKinley Street would have been a pedestrian lane. In exchange for allowing a fourth story on certain buildings, we would have been able to negotiate a designated space for a new public library. All new construction would have been required to have either living roof systems or solar roofs.

    The plan was developed over a four year period with participation by several hundred residents and supported by both environmentalists and the business community. In 2008 a group of people who were opposed to any new residential development organized a campaign to stop its formal adoption. Their argument was that it was "too big", that it would create unbearable traffic jams and that it would destroy Sebastopol's small town character.

    This group succeeded in electing a council majority which rejected the plan in March of 2008. That majority, Sarah Gurney, Guy Wilson and Linda Kelley essentially voted for The Barlow as the preferred alternative to more housing. Sebastopol will have to live with the consequences of this decision for many years to come.
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  26. TopTop #15
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Quote Magick wrote: View Post
    Those were market rate houses, that would not have helped the housing situation of the low or even medium income. That is why we organized and stopped it.
    Quote tommy wrote: View Post
    Housing is housing.

    It's well documented that that one of the principle forces driving up the cost of housing in CA is all the opposition to any new housing proposed. The result is a continued shortage of housing, which drives the price up.
    Quote Magick wrote: View Post
    I always feel more secure when a man explains things to me and he knows that his opinion is well-documented.
    I always feel more secure when a woman stipulates things without documentation.
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  28. TopTop #16
    photolite's Avatar
    photolite
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Unintended consequences can be a bitch.

    Quote Larry Robinson wrote: View Post
    ...

    We wanted to guide development in a different direction, one that would be a higher density, pedestrian oriented mix of residential and retail, similar to Windsor's new downtown or Petaluma's Theater District.
    ...
    In 2008 a group of people who were opposed to any new residential development organized a campaign to stop its formal adoption. Their argument was that it was "too big", that it would create unbearable traffic jams and that it would destroy Sebastopol's small town character.

    This group succeeded in electing a council majority which rejected the plan in March of 2008. That majority, Sarah Gurney, Guy Wilson and Linda Kelley essentially voted for The Barlow as the preferred alternative to more housing. Sebastopol will have to live with the consequences of this decision for many years to come.
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  30. TopTop #17
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Quote Magick wrote: View Post
    I always feel more secure when a man explains things to me and he knows that his opinion is well-documented.
    gender where?
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  32. TopTop #18
    jerichsalud's Avatar
    jerichsalud
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Thank you, Larry for the background information. 300 units does seem like a lot for Sebastopol all at once and probably even more so back in 2006 when the housing crisis wasn't quite as severe (was it a pretty severe crisis at the time?). The PD had an interesting article on the front page today showing that the number of households in Sonoma County making over $150,000 a year went from 16,480 in 2005 to 32,813 in 2014 while the number of households making less than $35,000 went from 49,973 to 40,813. Similarly the number of those making $75,000 to $150,000 rose while those making $35,000 to $75,000 fell.

    I would argue that this demographic shift with shrinking middle and low income residents is in large part due to the housing crisis and the limited increase in affordable housing stock in the last decade, especially since we lost redevelopment agency funds. I would also like to point out that in contrast to what Tommy suggests, all housing is not equal. UC Berkeley researchers found that in the Bay Area there are important differences in the impact of affordability between market rate and subsidized housing. According to their research--

    "The development of market-ratehousing may not be the most effective tool to prevent thedisplacement of low-income residents from their neighborhoods, nor to increase affordability at the neighborhoodscale. Through our analysis, we found that both market-rateand subsidized housing development can reduce displacement pressures, but subsidized housing is twice as effectiveas market-rate development at the regional level."

    I think the difference in this impact really between market rate and subsidized housing is significant especially in the light of the article by the PD showing the significant demographic shift in Sonoma County in the last decade if we value diverse and inclusive communities. I also wonder if there is a way that there might be an opportunity for a new proposal for housing for the Barlow? I'd love to see a higher percentage than 20% of the units be affordable/subsidized (can anyone tell me if there is a difference between affordable and subsidized?).

    We will be voting on a statewide housing bond in 2018 that will be helpful but insufficient to address the crisis and there has been discussion of a Sonoma County Housing bond similar to what was passed in Alameda and Santa Clara Counties in 2016. I believe funding is the biggest impediment to creating more affordable/subsidized


    Quote Larry Robinson wrote: View Post
    In 2003 the Sebastopol City Council recognized that the old apple processing district in the northeast area of the city would eventually come under pressure to develop. ...
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  34. TopTop #19
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Affordable & subsidized are rough synonyms.

    Affordable housing requires public or private subsidies, provided to the developer, so that it can be sold or rented at a reduced rate … making it affordable & subsidized. Otherwise, it'd be market rate. Most of the affordable rental & sweat equity owner occupied housing developed by Burbank Housing in Santa Rosa is subsidized by this kind of funding.

    Private investors receive tax breaks for investments in affordable housing projects. Public funds are often 50 year loans without interest payments due, & forgiven at end end of 50 yrs. Both reduce the end cost of the new housing.

    There are various statewide wide housing measures being considered.

    Reading Larry's comments about the 300 units is an example of why there is a shortage of housing in CA & why it's expensive. The laws of economics, of supply & demand, are hard to refute.

    Quote jerichsalud wrote: View Post
    Thank you, Larry for the background information. 300 units does seem like a lot for Sebastopol ...
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  36. TopTop #20
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    I believe that "affordable" means the rent is somewhat lower than the going rate for rents. "Subsidized" refers to housing where the tenants who cannot pay the affordable rate get financial assistance to pay the rent.

    I think Tommy's distinction between the two terms is more from the owners' point of view and mine is from the tenants'.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-25-2017 at 03:13 AM.
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  38. TopTop #21
    spam1's Avatar
    spam1
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Quote Magick wrote: View Post
    Those were market rate houses, that would not have helped the housing situation of the low or even medium income. That is why we organized and stopped it.
    Indeed, that is why we will have a hotel instead of housing. And it is pretty well established that building any housing will lower the price of rents as renters of expensive houses will buy the market rate houses, and renters of cheap houses will move in to more expensive houses until the cheapest rentals (which are presumably less desirable) are available.
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  39. TopTop #22
    spam1's Avatar
    spam1
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Quote Magick wrote: View Post
    I always feel more secure when a man explains things to me and he knows that his opinion is well-documented.
    #SarcasmOn Nice ad hominem attack; very well played. #SarcasmOff;

    You irrationally oppose housing that would relieve the housing problem. Then when someone points out your irrational opposition, you man-shame him.
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  41. TopTop #23
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Quote spam1 wrote: View Post
    #SarcasmOn Nice ad hominem attack; very well played. #SarcasmOff;
    I see what you did there - 'ad hominem' - it's the accusative singular form of the latin word for man. That works as a commentary on way too many levels.
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  43. TopTop #24
    rossmen
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    The residential rental market started heating up about 7 years ago and blew up 4 years ago. Before that it was flat for about 10 years. There are many demographic and economic factors in this history.

    One factor seldom discussed iin relation to rentals is the marijuana industry. Legality is rocking this market as I write. Last year's outdoor $400lb. The crop coming in $600lb. Litedep $1000lb. Farm business plans with investors at $100lb. Indoor is dead.

    What this means is more rentals available. I don't think rents will drop in soco, probably just stabilize, up north yes. A big part of alternative economy busted flat with many, including lots of families struggling for livelihood.
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  45. TopTop #25
    luke32
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    For those of us not hip to the Industry could you please expand on ¶2 and also explain ¶3 in greater detail?

    Thanks.

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    ...One factor seldom discussed in relation to rentals is the marijuana industry. Legality is rocking this market as I write. Last year's outdoor $400lb. The crop coming in $600lb. Litedep $1000lb. Farm business plans with investors at $100lb. Indoor is dead.

    What this means is more rentals available. I don't think rents will drop in soco, probably just stabilize, up north yes. A big part of alternative economy busted flat with many, including lots of families struggling for livelihood.
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  47. TopTop #26
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Quote luke32 wrote: View Post
    For those of us not hip to the Industry could you please expand on ¶2 and also explain ¶3 in greater detail?

    Thanks.
    >> Last year's outdoor $400lb.

    I presume this means that last years outdoor grown marijuana sells for $400 a pound. However, that sounds too cheap to me. Maybe that's a clearance price? I must have missed the sale announcement

    >> The crop coming in $600lb.

    Likewise.

    >> Litedep $1000lb.

    I'm guessing this means light - dependent, aka, indoor grown.??

    >> Farm business plans with investors at $100lb. Indoor is dead....What this means is more rentals available.

    Again the price seems off, but the point that outdoor is much cheaper than indoor is clear, and that will put a lot of indoor growers out of business, and free up the houses that they used.

    >> A big part of alternative economy busted flat with many, including lots of families struggling for livelihood.
    I think this is under-appreciated part of cannabis legalization. For better or worse, lots of people profited off cannabis prohibition. Many illicit growers/distributors will not be able to make the leap to legality. This will cause a painful dislocation.

    Ross, care to elucidate further?
    Last edited by Barry; 09-28-2017 at 02:13 AM.
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  49. TopTop #27
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    >> Last year's outdoor $400lb.
    I presume this means that last years outdoor grown marijuana sells for $400 a pound. However, that sounds too cheap to me. Maybe that's a clearance price? I must have missed the sale announcement
    my reading is that the cost-to-produce was $400. and Litedep (? produced in a warehouse?) is $1000lb

    but the new farms can do it for $100 lb.
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  51. TopTop #28
    markwjam's Avatar
    markwjam
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    yes, thanks, I did find the original post unclear,
    and would also like to hear more
    Mark
    Last edited by Barry; 09-29-2017 at 03:05 AM.
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  52. TopTop #29
    jerichsalud's Avatar
    jerichsalud
     

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    Here is a perspective I agree with in the Current Sonoma West Times And News about the new hotel proposal written by Marsha Sue Lustig.

    Commentary: Healdsburgification or Bust? Do we get a choice?

    We recently learned that another hotel has applied to locate at the Barlow. This one is adjacent to the one already approved there. The application is for 60 rooms, an increased height of eight feet above the 50-foot allowed by the new General Plan and no parking.

    My issues are not with the parking per se. I do think The Barlow currently has too much parking, but, at this rate, that won’t last long.

    I love our newly approved hotel. I helped develop the public workshop that ultimately brought us the Healdsburg hotelier application. But, shouldn’t we be able to exert some control as a community about how many hotels are in our future? One hotel seemed a good addition to our community. How many are enough? Three? Four? Ask the good people of Healdsburg and Sonoma what they think of their plethora of hotels and wineries.

    What about the desperately needed housing that our city council has been frantically discussing? Are we to just let our precious downtown develop on a first-come, first-served basis? Why would we give away all of our extra Barlow parking to a private company instead of reserving it for the affordable housing components of any housing application?
    We need a strategy to ensure that the amount of downtown housing is well-planned before we give away all our land for hotels. This will allow us to understand the consequences of not having made a conscious decision to allow seniors, families, lower income people and all others to live in our downtown. These downtown neighbors are the critical building blocks in a healthy and vibrant downtown.

    We need diverse-income housing in our downtown, rich, poor and in between. That is how we can ensure that the awesome folks who work in our restaurants and retail shops have a local place to call home and perhaps won’t need a car.

    After all, adding the expense of a car to rent payments and health insurance is the fastest way to slide from middle class to working poor and even into homelessness. Diverse income housing ensures that we live around people who are not identical to us. Imagine people of different economic strata being neighbors. That’s how it used to be in the United States before we free-marketed our way into an endless sea of single income neighborhoods further and further away from services — isolating us, requiring everyone to own a car and bankrupting our communities with infrastructure we cannot afford to maintain.


    I understand that Sebastopol is destined to become the next Healdsburg, replete with trendy hotels and bike-riding, wine-sipping vacationers, but, do we have to just stand by and watch? Can’t we save some of our precious downtown real estate to provide some affordable housing mixed with other housing types for our community that is desperately struggling for housing?

    What can we do? Mayor Glass held a special series of meetings to address the emergency of housing in our community. They even had a brief moratorium on rent increases. Clearly, the Council is worried. Call them. Attend a hearing now and tell our city leaders not to give away all our precious land to hotels and wineries. We need to reserve downtown land for housing at all income levels. It’s called planning and it is possible to revise our codes to match our desired future. Now is the time.
    Marsha Sue Lustig is a Sebastopol resident.

    Link to article
    Last edited by Barry; 09-29-2017 at 03:06 AM.
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  54. TopTop #30
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: New hotel proposal in Barlow

    I support a moratorium on new hotels in the City of Sebastopol. My understanding is that two have already been approved: one on the tractor property across from the town square & Whole Foods, & one in the Barlow.

    I don't think any should be built besides the one at the tractor property. That one needs to be built, digested, and evaluated before any more hotels are built. Adding more hotels will degrade the environment of Sebastopol. Sebastopol is a beautiful & unique town … whose essence could easily be sold out to tourism.

    There's no shortage of money & greed that would be happy to degrade our town for a buck. More housing needs to be built instead of new hotels.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-30-2017 at 02:51 AM.
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