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  1. TopTop #31
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    several people have expressed interest in helping people individually.
    we help out 3 homeless people on a regular basis. one is currently staying on our property. he needs a working bicycle if anyone has one. should be decent, as he would be riding on bodega hwy, and the hill to our property is steep. he also needs rides in to santa rosa. he is a good person, honest, but has a difficult time "keeping it together". actually working w. these men is a great window into homelessness, and to understand many of the issues and complexities involved.
    all of them need storage, a safe place to keep their things. so if someone knows of an inexpensive storage place would be great as well.
    good to know what you can do, are willing to do, and set clear limits.
    most of these men need a "village" for safety, assistance & support.
    if people are interested i can post specific needs of individuals here periodically.
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  3. TopTop #32
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Thank you for sharing about your compassionate contribution to these people. I'm not in a position at this time to help much, but would like to know what the individual needs might be. I'm very resourceful in connecting people with people, products and services.

    The more specific the needs are, the easier it is for people to help. For example, when does this person need rides to Santa Rosa. I've seen bicyles on Freecycle, and it might be good to post this need there, and on your neighborhood Nextdoor. I've been amazed at the help neighbors have provided. One man had all of his power tools stolen last week from his truck, in the 3 minutes he was in a convenience store. Neighbors have come to his rescue with offers of free tools.

    Thank you again for your compassion.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    several people have expressed interest in helping people individually.
    we help out 3 homeless people on a regular basis. ...
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  5. TopTop #33
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    thanks for the suggestions, someone also emailed me privately.
    posted this because someone on wacco, (several people?), had said they wanted to help homeless people individually. think that is a great idea. when you begin to help people directly, you begin to see things that need to be done as a community, and individually to address the complexities of negotiating life when you don't have a home...a car, a bike, and more.
    T., the man who needs the help now, also needs a good pair of shoes and socks. (i loaned him $ yesterday to get some shoes. he acknowledges he "went cheap", so the shoes aren't great. he didn't have enough money to get good shoes. he went to the sketchers outlet the shoes were $40 and up, outside his budget.)
    if someone wants to help this man, you can contact me, & i will be a liazon, or i can give you his phone number & someone could text him & offer to take him shoe shopping (his phone is hit & miss, but he does get messages, & sometimes it works--which is better than other things.
    one starts to see how things get entangled, and which people can are easier to bring back to "functioning".
    i run a horse rescue as a volunteer. people and horses need help here.
    there are people i give several hours of work to, so they can "keep it going", afford something they need.
    this will be my last email about specific things people can do to help one individual. it takes helping with several things over several weeks/a couple months, to get this man "on his feet" again. (i focus on people that are close to functioning.). support is needed over the long haul.
    come on board only if you are willing to take on a task, from start to finish.
    if you want to help me do this great. if these are not things people want to take on, i fully understand.
    when T. is in better shape (shoes that work, and a little less pain--i'm going to take him to a chiropractor next week and cover the costs, he can do some work and "get by". he will always need friends, support, but he will be fairly functional.
    he is in a lot of pain. looking for somewhere to sleep is very hard on the body, so is spending the night in kohl's parking lot, finding bushes in a quasi safe location, walking for miles in lousy shoes, all takes its toll). ultimately he needs help getting through the medical system & needs something done to reduce the pain in his knee. not sure of the complexities. he can't take traditional pain killers, 420 products help, through one of the good local distributors, he has indirect access to them. would be helpful to have a license. a luxury). likely some other alternative therapies would be helpful as well. he does have food stamps. he can do his laundry and take showers while staying with me.) there is so much more. if participating in these planned acts of kindness appeals to you, wonderful.
    i want to make this opportunity available.
    i posted this because i remember someone (some people?) said they would like to help an individual.
    so thought this posting made sense.
    think it is a great way to have an idea of the barriers, while giving people an opportunity to do a specific act that will make a difference in helping someone "stay off the streets".
    this will be my last post on ways to help this individual.
    would be great to have other members join the village, as i am doing as much as i can at this point.
    this is a good time in this person's life to make a difference.
    the path to ending homelessness, temporarily or permanently takes tenacity, on the individuals part, and on the helpers part.
    this is why i am suggesting an approach of several acts, that would make a difference, but would not require permanent involvement. someone could move this person forward by doing one simple, affordable act.
    thanks for reading. my best.
    Last edited by Icssoma; 06-03-2017 at 10:39 AM. Reason: clarity
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  7. TopTop #34
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    thanks Shandi. appreciate the ideas.
    i am doing all i can. if someone wants to find the resource that is great. beyond dropping my friend off when i go out, & picking him up, and things that come up, i am doing all i can.
    was hoping that someone had the time wants to focus on these things (shoes or a bike), or has the resources, wonderful.
    if someone had the ability to offer rides, great.
    it takes time, or money.
    was hoping someone wanted to do one thing that was finite and would make a difference. of course adding someone to the mix is a good thing, as well.
    getting involved really helps one's understanding of the problem.
    working to change the criminal justice system and create resources for brain health are the two biggest issues i see.
    i try to spend my time w. people on the upside. it doesn't always work that way.
    thanks for your kind words.
    my best.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shandi: View Post
    Thank you for sharing about your compassionate contribution to these people. I'm not in a position at this time to help much, but would like to know what the individual needs might be. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-04-2017 at 01:43 PM.
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  9. TopTop #35
    CatSwan's Avatar
    CatSwan
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Shame on you, Tommy, for putting everyone who ever lost their homes in the same category as thieves and criminals. Shame on you for your heartless response. Addicts need help. Homeless folks need help. They are not always one in the same. It is our responsibility to watch out for our fellow citizens, Americans and all humans. That is my opinion, but also the opinion of people in the most civilized places on earth. Blessings for a better 2018 and a good life. CatSwan

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by tommy: View Post
    Great post Nico. I've been homeless myself. The main problem is if the govt authorities do not control the homeless, by tearing down illegal structures, making them move, not wanting them to sleep in Starbucks doorway, etc... if they provide great services, this will encourage more homeless to move to this area, which is not a desirable thing.

    While there are many good people who are homeless, there are also many in the homeless community who are alcoholics, druggies, mentally ill, thieves, criminals, etc. This is a fact. Accommodating them is not in the best interest of society. Our culture is based on self reliance, making something of yourself, contributing to society, etc. Homeless people are, in general, are not interested in these values. Who in their right mind would want to live next to a homeless shelter?
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  11. TopTop #36
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    My memory kicked-in today; the acronym "SCRAP" stood for: Sonoma Civil Rights Action Project.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44: View Post
    Does anybody know of or remember about a group of people who referred to themselves as S.C.R.A.P.?... ...(it's been so long I forget exactly what that acronym stands for but I seem to remember, it probably stood for Sonoma County Rural Action Project). It was a small association of people that one of was Mary Moore.
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  13. TopTop #37
    MikeH
    Guest

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Here is an example of what goes on for consideration. I spoke directly to the County Supervisors; relating this information.

    I know a man who lives in a minivan. In fact I helped him find the one he currently is in for $1800. He eats at the mission and gets SSI of about $950.

    He had been on the CDC waiting list for a Section 8 housing voucher for quite a while. He had dropped out of good employment to be on the streets using Meth and alcohol but goes to AA and is several years clean now.

    Well he got awarded a voucher finally, which is what happens if you sit on the waiting list long enough. He is 60 years old now I think. He showed me the voucher information. It said he could have a studio apartment for up to $1080 rent or a one bedroom for up to something like$1150. If he got a 2 bedroom he would have to find someone to share with and the voucher could be put toward his share.

    So the way it would work would be if he found a studio for $1080 he would have to pay $300 and the voucher would pick up the rest. I think the $300 may have come from figuring about 1/3 of his SSI income.

    So naturally he could not find anything and the voucher was forfeited and will go to someone else futher down the waiting list.

    So what does this indicate? To me at least a couple things. First of all it should be possible to construct and rent out profitably small studios of about 450 square feet at a rate of $1080 per month. They are less than half the size of your typical 2br/2ba but could bring in more rent on a per square footage basis. Secondly, the idea of handing out vouchers when there is no chance of them getting used is senseless.

    County Supervisors see no problem with this situation. They proclaim the $300K in government subsidy per "affordable unit" is required and are focused on ways of raising money to pay these subsidies out. And for the most part it is taken for granted that these subsidized "affordables," if they ever get built, will generally all be 2 bedroom units.
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  15. TopTop #38
    Codyboy1's Avatar
    Codyboy1
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Yes Tommy-easy to vote for something you do not live near and are paid to work/vote for.
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  17. TopTop #39
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Not criticizing just an FWIW, as an FYI.
    Some of that SSI money, about $300 above the actual maximum SSI payment the US (federal) government pays (in California) is paid from the California government because of the 'high cost of living' here in CA.... ...

    Anyway...
    It goes like this: unless there is other income SSA Disability (differs from SSI) {in part}, Veterans benefits, or other income, Social Security Administration considers that; if/when you are receiving SSI as your only income, by not paying rent and actually 'living' where you are reporting you are paying rent, (that) the cost of living for SSI recipient is less and SSI does reduce SSI payments by about $300 per month.

    So, the man you helped, if he is on just SSI is most likely actually getting around $600 per month.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by MikeH: View Post
    I know a man who lives in a minivan. In fact I helped him find the one he currently is in for $1800. He eats at the mission and gets SSI of about $950.
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  18. TopTop #40
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    For some of us here, or at least myself anyway, I ask you; where/what is the Quote from the post that Tommy made that you are replying to?
    Just asking because otherwise that statement has little to none context in this thread; IMHO..

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Codyboy1: View Post
    Yes Tommy-easy to vote for something you do not live near and are paid to work/vote for.
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  19. TopTop #41
    Hot Compost
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by MikeH: View Post
    Here is an example of what goes on for consideration. I spoke directly to the County Supervisors; relating this information.

    County Supervisors see no problem with this situation. They proclaim the $300K in government subsidy per "affordable unit" is required and are focused on ways of raising money to pay these subsidies out. And for the most part it is taken for granted that these subsidized "affordables," if they ever get built, will generally all be 2 bedroom units.
    Once I was looking for a place in SF and spent about 5 weeks living in my truck while I looked for an apartment.

    I found that within very specific parameters, it was like a vacation/ camping trip.

    The parameters were -
    * comfortable bed, and knowing the area well enough to know where to park, in San Francisco.
    * a supply of favorite vacation reading type books. I like Michael Connelly, the crime whodunit type books about life in Los Angeles. Michael C. writes about LA in a way that makes it seem nice and familiar - which seems like quite an achievement writing wise.
    * a rock solid schedule that includes early morning coffee, nutrition, and a gym to work out at.
    * Internet access, e.g. the Fedex/Kinko's on Stanyan in San Francisco.
    * knowing the restaurants. there's nothing like eating at the Chinese places on Clement after swimming a mile or 2. Of course you have to watch out for debris in the rice, I cracked a crown once from a piece of rock in the rice at the Chinese barbecue place.
    * knowing the laundromats, the coffee shops, the tea houses, the bookstores, etc.
    If you don't have to spend money on rent or health care, it's fun eating out and spending an hour or 2 at the Green Apple bookstore on Clement.

    I am vision impaired, by way of a bad outcome from LASIK eye surgery. So I listen to a lot of Books on Tape. That means you need a way in your mobile truck home to get electricity. That can be as simple as charging up a battery when you're at the gym. Or at least buying batteries in bulk for your audio player.

    I lived in Santa Rosa for 6 years, and then found a 15 acre hillside property in Southwest Oregon for a rather amazing price (a divorce sale).

    When I first moved here I went to the local coffee shop almost every morning and met one of the local homeless people, named John L. It turned out, he was living in his truck. Under those circumstances, I found him to be WAY more stable than some of the local authority figures.

    When I was growing up, part of the education was about the "collapse of the Soviet Union". One of the examples of social disintegration cited was, a streetlight is killing people because it's not set up right - and nobody can figure out how to get it fixed.

    As it turns out, we have just such a stoplight where I live. My attempts to get it fixed, by emailing the local radio station owner & state rep, and also the city manager, were like running into brick walls. My talks with the employees at the 2 hardware stores that overlook the dangerous intersection confirmed my initial observation - they use the intersection every day, they said, and it makes them nervous. The problem with the intersection is that it gives drivers going in opposite directions the impression that they each have the right of way, for about 15 seconds out of each 4 minute traffic cycle.

    After finding the local authority figures so wonting (wanting ?) in their approach to their supposed jobs, I couldn't help but find John L. be a refreshingly stable person. Most people in his situation would have cracked or broken in some way.

    I found the process of establishing trust with a non-Yuppie (if you're from California and used to dealing with Silicon Valley type professionals) to be sort of 2 steps forward, 1 step backward, but very worth the process. John L eventually found an apartment with some kind of subsidy downtown near his usual haunts.


    The supply of housing in the US is artificially constrained, with price supports. That is related to the real estate bubble that popped in 2007/8/9, and then re-inflated.

    Part of that process was the purchase of $Trillions in problem mortgages by the US gov., to prop up their value. If those mortgages hadn't been purchased, the bubble would have deflated more, and there would be a lot more housing on the market "for cheap".

    That unique American "rescue the bankers but not the homeless people" subsidy definitely has ripple effects that affect every renter (and real estate shopper) in the US. In other words, almost everybody.
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  21. TopTop #42
    MikeH
    Guest

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    He is on Social Security disability because he sprained his back, so badly that it will not heal properly and there is a pinched nerve(s) and he cannot lift any weight of significance. So maybe it is not SSI but something else. Maybe SSDI? He had been previously recommended to apply for disability long before the back injury due to drug/mental issues. He refused to even pursue that, maybe out of self respect. Nothing wrong with him in that regard. Quitting a job to take up drug use and alcohol was just a choice and he did not want to be labeled disabled because of that. The $950 figure is a number I recall getting from him. Maybe I will confirm it next time I see him.
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  23. TopTop #43
    MikeH
    Guest

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44: View Post
    For some of us here, or at least myself anyway, I ask you; where/what is the Quote from the post that Tommy made that you are replying to?
    Just asking because otherwise that statement has little to none context in this thread; IMHO..
    That is in reference to west county services wanting to vote to buy the horse barn for a homeless services center. I believe residents felt the only ones that should have voting rights were those living in the area, not those who'd get paid to operate it.
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  25. TopTop #44
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Thanks MikeH.
    I did a word search of Tommy's postings on this thread and found what you are referring to #1:
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by MikeH: View Post
    That is in reference to west county services wanting to vote to buy the horse barn for a homeless services center. I believe residents felt the only ones that should have voting rights were those living in the area, not those who'd get paid to operate it.
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  27. TopTop #45
    Codyboy1's Avatar
    Codyboy1
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Exactly-we live here full time & pay taxes-why would we want to be the only place in the United States that has Homeless services with a population of 3-5k?? A demographic we do not want!
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  28. TopTop #46
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Cody boy, is your response sincere, or sarcastic?
    hoping it is that latter.
    (in case the former sf has good services. other places do as well. it is called humanity. doing the right thing. by the grace of god...)
    i believe the common denominator is brain chemistry imbalance (of course capitalism w. insufficient checks).
    if one is born with conditions, severe brain chemistry imbalances, & we don't treat it, acknowledge it, or work to help/support/treat/offer safety nets, what does it say about us?
    (brain chemistry imbalance often called "mental illness". misnomer. a brain that isn't healthy. probably the most critical organ that needs to be healthy. (you might make a case for the heart. yet we put $$$$$$$ into heart disease, cancer, war, fighting for oil, fighting for corporations to keep their wealth.) at best our priorities are majorly screwed.
    the good thing about heart disease or cancer, you usually get sympathy, support (ceres project), a little extra care/love.
    when you have severe brain chemistry imbalance you get trashed, discarded, a town w. out a psychiatrist at it's health center. (she was good & recently left, their is one available by skype! i would make the case for 3.)
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  30. TopTop #47
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Codyboy1: View Post
    Exactly-we live here full time & pay taxes-why would we want to be the only place in the United States that has Homeless services with a population of 3-5k?? A demographic we do not want!
    man, people get excited about what they think they bought with the taxes they pay. Taxes are supposed to pay for civilization (so saith the Supreme Court). Saving money at the price of endangering our civilization is a poor tradeoff.
    I also don't understand the reverence some people have for how deserving the rich are of their 'earnings', but that's a different (though related) subject.
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  32. TopTop #48
    Codyboy1's Avatar
    Codyboy1
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Really-Guerneville brings in most of the TOT taxes in our county. Also-rich? My home is in foreclosure!! Please don’t assume what you do not know.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by podfish: View Post
    man, people get excited about what they think they bought with the taxes they pay. Taxes are supposed to pay for civilization (so saith the Supreme Court). Saving money at the price of endangering our civilization is a poor tradeoff.
    I also don't understand the reverence some people have for how deserving the rich are of their 'earnings', but that's a different (though related) subject.
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  33. TopTop #49
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Codyboy1: View Post
    Really-Guerneville brings in most of the TOT taxes in our county. Also-rich? My home is in foreclosure!! Please don’t assume what you do not know.
    sorry - wasn't meaning to conflate the two things, especially with you as the target. The two ideas are related only in that they both involve the ownership of money that passed through a person's hands. No, the fact that taxes derive from a person's assets doesn't give that person right to dictate the way it's spent. Also, people's wealth is rarely as 'earned' as most people seem to feel, so returning some of that to society via taxation is in no way inherently unfair. So, back from another OT excursion:
    Quote we live here full time & pay taxes-why would we want to be the only place in the United States that has Homeless services with a population of 3-5k?? A demographic we do not want!
    my claim is that your full-time residence seems to give you the same rights as the full-time residence of someone in a tent by the river. So why that? and why should the paying-taxes part mean you get to decide what demographics are permitted?
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  35. TopTop #50
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Maybe I have missed something but I don't think so.
    I have read through this thread, a few postings more than once.
    I have not noticed anybody here suggesting that the Russian River area, Sonoma County, or, even the state of California for that matter, should be the 'only' place in the United States that has 'Homeless services'.

    In fact, I think that it is arguable to say that there exists a particular "demographics", (so to speak); (hint: VERY wealthy), {certain monied interests} seem to take for granted or expect greater 'ownership' (theirs) of everything simply because they pay more taxes (or sometimes not even; Some {many?} of whom were/are either borne into or inherited extreme wealth, etc.)... ...whereas the 'belief' is that they have more rights than others who don't, can't haven't, etc. paid as much taxes.
    Anyway, I don't want to get into a rant about that it would be too far off of subject than I already have.

    Although I will mention that I think that people who have ended up homeless, some of whom is not because of drug addicted, alcohol screw ups etc.. while there are plenty such around, there are also homeless who do not fall into the category within that definition.
    Even when someone does fit into that or similar definition 'category' there do in various ways pay very high taxes in the form of things not being available to them such as reasonably decent medical care (which exists is in just about all other Western developed nations), reasonably decent shelter, a safe place to be without being criminalized, etc.

    I think that many people who are either homeless or almost homeless and those who have been homeless who are not homeless at the moment, etc., have with their own humanity paid and are paying in most cases, extremely high exorbitant taxes by way of the way they have been and are treated, mistreated, abused, neglected, ostracized, outcast, discriminated against, criminalized, bad-mouthed, scapegoated, and so on.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Codyboy1: View Post
    Exactly-we live here full time & pay taxes-why would we want to be the only place in the United States that has Homeless services with a population of 3-5k?? A demographic we do not want!
    Oh BTW, FWIW, there are homeless people who also 'live here full time & pay taxes'... ...probably not directly paying to the county for property owners real estate taxes... But... Most certainly are Indirectly paying county property owners real estate taxes with what little they do have to spend locally. Some percentage of what they spend for survival is by way of 'design' going into property tax through the 'system', no doubt.
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  37. TopTop #51
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    yep- what an Ef'n set-up all this sounds like. that's the game though and the BOS, none of our elected officials will ever admit it.
    how many folks i have to wonder, got Section 8 housing, only to never make use of it because this damn County just can't seem to create affordable housing.
    and Now, with the Mr. Carson in charge of HUD, that will probably (really) be a thing of the past.
    such a pity we care so little. but hey, drink up- the wine is still flowing!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by MikeH: View Post
    Here is an example of what goes on for consideration. I spoke directly to the County Supervisors; relating this information.

    I know a man who lives in a minivan. ...
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  39. TopTop #52
    Hot Compost
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Santa Rosa has a resource that most towns do not have - one of the best affordable university-quality schools in the nation. I know called a Junior College, but I have found them to have classes as good as the most highly esteemed universities, which professors to match.

    However, people who are worried about their survival - Sonoma Homeless folks for example - do not write sonnets, or compose music, or write almost next best American novels, or learn HTML5.

    They are in a state of continually being overwhelmed by the anxiety of their homelessness, and the illegality of many parts of the homeless lifestyle.

    Both the singer Jewel and the author JK Rowling were homeless or very close to homeless when they created the first creations that brought them the money to not be homeless. But they weren't having to deal with the possible malice of the local 'powers that be' working through the police and the city/county administration.

    It is a shame to see Sonoma County/ Santa Rosa treating people who are in a difficult situation cruelly, and making it impossible for them to find a "Drishti" (something positive to focus on) to help them to a better living situation.

    Where I live that would be impossible, because the junior college charges $500 per class and $200 per textbook (that is available online for $100), and it's like college as run by the Department of Homeland Security. But SRJC charges about $150 per class and the bookstore is not used as a profit center. $120 the last time I took a significant class there.

    It really is feasible for homeless people in Sonoma to use SRJC as a launching pad to the next part of their lives. If they're allowed to take a gym class, use the Internet at the library, and one other class, it becomes quite compatible with medium term camping for a lifestyle.

    Being a home-owner, I understand the City/County councils' orientation towards appeasing the wishes of the property owning classes. The homeless people are treated like slaves, no rights whatsoever.

    Like I said in another post, I would freak about homeless people living on BLM land next to my backyard - because it's an extremely flammable landscape, next to a much larger flammable landscape. So I would say those kinds of concerns are legitimate priority concerns. Homeless people using the hill above my home as a latrine is a much, much smaller problem. If it was occurring, it would be very far down the list of priorities (the latrine part.).

    I would say the caste system that is inherent in our respective city & county councils is 100%+ dysfunctional. I think maybe some of the council-members are well-meaning, in Sonoma/Santa Rosa. Not sure about where I live.

    In 2014 or 2015, we had about a dozen arson fires reported in Southwest Oregon. Most of them separate incidents in separate locations, indicating different people starting the fires. Then they stopped reporting that statistic.

    Any social system that creates groups of people that have resentments - and lighters - is so boneheaded in light of the 2017 fires that I would expect the councils to eventually "get it" - they can't ignore the homeless people, and they can't sweep them under the rug. That means tent camps and designated parking areas for semi-homeless people living in their vehicles.
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  41. TopTop #53
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    well tommy, i'm in MY right mind, and i would live next door to a homeless shelter. providing services does NOT mean more people will move into your area. it might just show that there really are people who care, have compassion, and recognize that we are All One. that's not necessarily scary.
    you know what, there are people, many of them, in positions of power and influence- and they are druggies, mentally ill, alcoholics. you know why you don't know them tommy?- it's because they are lucky to hide it ( at least for awhile). they are from some wealth perhaps, and they have $$$ too maybe. doesn't matter- they are the same as the rest of us- "Im-freaking-perfect"!
    so, all you are saying, is that "some" homeless people are good, and some are alcoholics, mentally ill, etc.- sounds like our society as a whole, ey--those problems cross ALL economic, social, racial, lines. if you are an alcoholic or have a drug problem and/or mental issues, does that also mean you are Not a "good" person?
    so, what is your point? if we can SEE these people right in front of us, and not hiding in privilege or something else, then they don't deserve Help?
    i'm just trying to understand, i want this dialog because it's necessary for all of us to try and understand where all of us are coming from, our fears, our perceptions in order for us to find Solutions, right? When is it time to pull the plug on people? Who deserves help, who does not?


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by tommy: View Post
    Great post Nico. I've been homeless myself. The main problem is if the govt authorities do not control the homeless, by tearing down illegal structures, making them move, not wanting them to sleep in Starbucks doorway, etc... if they provide great services, this will encourage more homeless to move to this area, which is not a desirable thing.

    ... Who in their right mind would want to live next to a homeless shelter?
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  43. TopTop #54
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Note the statement in your post:

    "He had dropped out of good employment to be on the streets using Meth and alcohol "

    Actions have consequences. Yes, everything you say is true, but in my view, you omitted stating the consequences of his dropping out of good employment: he ended up homeless. It's a one way street as you age: opportunities shrink. Economically, there is only so much money available for social services, welfare, help for the homeless, veterans, etc. By dropping out of good employment, he put himself at the mercy of public funds. Rather than being in front of the 8 ball, he is behind it.

    There are doubtless other people who, due to no fault of their own, had a health crisis, or lost a job, or had an accident, and ended up homeless, unable to maintain their lifestyle. I feel for all of them. There are degrees of casualty. It's not the Supervisors or Council people's fault. It's the way our economy is structured, the nature of late capitalism. Resources are being removed from the poor or needy people, and the rich are being enriched further. It's the way the class system of conservatism, and libertarian-ism works. I've heard that Sweden has a different system, of much greater equality, and a more robust social welfare program.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by MikeH: View Post
    ... He had dropped out of good employment to be on the streets using Meth and alcohol but goes to AA and is several years clean now....
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  45. TopTop #55
    MikeH
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    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    He's enjoying himself now, he doesn't mind living thus way, showers everyday at "The Y," and said previously he had a gym membership for showering. He stayed at our main homeless shelter for a year. Likes being in a van much more. Meth use is very pervasive and very damaging. Even one of my supervisors, when I was doing surveying, said he had done some serious meth use when younger. He was not hesitant to share that, but if I were him I probably would have because you can see the long term effects of meth use and correlate them with the mannerisms. This fellow now smokes and consumes a lot of beer. It is no uncommon for guys I meet in either construction or surveying to buy a 12 pack to consume all by himself at the end of the day.

    The guy who lives in the van, I have no reason to doubt anything he says, and he doesn't mind sharing. He is not really what I'd call sympathetic to his fellow homeless, and least not the ones he's socialized with. He says many been one the streets for decades and nothing will change. He says they're druggies looking for more drugs.

    He worked for the city of San Diego public works, streets, sewers. Married, had a house and a kid. Said his wife was a drug user and he started or something, not specifically saying she got him started, but I guess they both at least dabbled in drugs, divorced, lost the house, he had to pay child support. He moved up here and went to work for the County, public works, county bridge maintenance he said. His experience in San Diego made it possible to get this job. Did it for a few years, quit to do heavy meth use and vodka. I believe I clearly see the effects of long term meth use in his mannerisms and speech. I said you must have built up some county pension? He said yeah, cashed that out a long time ago and blew it. His wife he said remarried some other drug user, but he still had child support to pay, which he didn't and they've been after him.

    He has a perverse way of looking at things, like it;s a game. He likes the free "Obama phone." as he calls it. He goes for all the free meals, even though by living rent free and drug free and sober he could afford to buy some of his own food. Before he went on SSDI he worked part time in construction and had a food stamp card. He'd buy stuff we could share if I barbecued it for him. Once you get Social Security they take your food stamps away. He doesn't like that, would rather get SSDI and Food Stamps. He doesn't buy anything for barbecues anymore.

    There are tons of stories like this. In fact when i made a donation to the Mission I got on their mailing list the first mailer they sent me was the story about one of their recent "rescues", a man who quit working for the city of Santa Rosa not once but twice to live on the Santa Rosa creek bank drinking till he passed out every day. It said bringing the Gospel to him helped him break from his depression and need for alcohol.

    That does engender much sympathy when someone quits a better paying job than i have.
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  47. TopTop #56
    Codyboy1's Avatar
    Codyboy1
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Exactly Tommy-there are consequences in real life. I am barely keeping my home, worked over 39 years housing veterans and disenfranchised folks. If you need help it is there-if you do not it is a lifestyle choice.
    Sorry the Section 8 is a very long list-but being grateful would be nice. Also, many people want to live alone-me too-but I will have to adjust to keep my home-in real life you have to be flexible; maybe you have to get roommates-not the best-but better than Homeless.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by tommy: View Post
    ...Actions have consequences. ....
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  49. TopTop #57
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: What to do about homelessness?

    Yes, Thanks for mentioning those realities.
    The posing question I have to all of us is; Who of the 'homeless', under what conditions, end up getting thrown under the buss because some of the 'homeless' are really screwed-up? (yes some of the most screwed-up are that way by their own conscientious, free will in choosing to do so).

    Yes, also the economic system here in the USA at this present time is (still) supportive of the "Robber Baron" and social Darwinism (is systemic). It is not at all a mystery why there is such injustice spurred-on by way of economics.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by tommy: View Post
    There are doubtless other people who, due to no fault of their own, had a health crisis, or lost a job, or had an accident, and ended up homeless, unable to maintain their lifestyle...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-03-2018 at 10:31 AM.
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