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  1. TopTop #1
    Moon's Avatar
    Moon
     

    Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    "I regret that President Trump is slandering our country in his attempts to find reasons for what he wants to do in closing off the United States. I suspect that his actual knowledge of the issue is extremely limited. If it were not for the massive turmoil that could ensue, I would urge him to skip one of his golfing weekends and come to us and see for himself."
    --Carl Bildt, former Prime Minister of
    Sweeden
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  2. Gratitude expressed by 4 members:

  3. TopTop #2
    snake
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    Quote Moon wrote: View Post
    "I regret that President Trump is slandering our country in his attempts to find reasons for what he wants to do in closing off the United States. I suspect that his actual knowledge of the issue is extremely limited. If it were not for the massive turmoil that could ensue, I would urge him to skip one of his golfing weekends and come to us and see for himself."
    --Carl Bildt, former Prime Minister of
    Sweeden

    *Screw Carl Bildt...He is just another snobby, 'elite', weasel word, BSing politician who hasn't given a sh*t about Swedish immigrants, and immigrant assimilation for over 20 yrs. Therefore, he didn't give a crud about the safety of his own citizenry.

    Yes, there are big problems with mass immigration in Sweden, as well as other parts of Europe.

    "Trump is right about Immigrants"...

    *****

    ..."I am afraid of this place exploding"...
    ..."they can't calm us down with nice words"...
    --Residents of Rinkeby. '93

    ..."Rinkeby is nice"...
    --Carl Bildt. '93 (weasel word, Carl Bildt, after meeting with frustrated and angry Rinkeby residents at a town hall).

    "The no go zone of Rinkeby - Then and Now!"...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0SmKcdg5pQM

    *****

    An immigrant in Sweden posts about immigration in Sweden.

    "Welcome To Sweden"

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3KSJY0c8QWw

    *****

    "THE STATUS IN SWEDEN 2017 - By a Swede"
    "I, as a Swede, would say that Sweden is in a crisis."..

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UAWkTrtuhMw

    *****

    "Head of Swedish Ambulance Drivers Union...No Go Zones are Reality for Us."...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ta5a02MzWjE

    *****

    "Swedish reality today 55 no go zones for police and locals"...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oCsEqKjP9p0

    *****

    Swedish Mainstream Media Is "Hiding The Full Picture": Trump Is Right About Immigrants"...

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...out-immigrants

    *****

    "Swedish Feminists Leaving Stockholm Suburbs as Islamic Fundamentalists Now "Ruling" Those Areas"...

    https://newsline.com/swedish-feminis...-ruling-areas/

    *****

    "Swedish police were forced to run for their lives after being attacked by a mob of asylum seekers as they tried to relocate amid allegations a 10-year-old boy had been 'raped repeatedly' at a refugee centre. Read more:"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4czkLJ3HX ..

    (I am assuming you maybe know of the practice of Bacha Bazi in Afghanistan...culturally acceptable boy slave rape).

    *****

    "SWEDISH police are being attacked as they struggle to cope with crime in "no-go" areas of the country with high migrant populations, a report has revealed"...

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-crime-rockets

    *****

    "Sweden on the Brink" An interview with Dr. Tito Sanandaji

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/swede...matias-tavares

    *****

    Hand Grenades...Sweden

    "Along with a number of shootings, the summer of 2015 was dubbed "the summer of unrest" by Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven, who during a speech said the attacks would "not be tolerated".[74] Some hundred new police officers were set to be appointed in Malmö in the following months, after concerns were raised by the regional police union.[75] Police began work the same summer of attempting to thwart "mass hysteria" among terrified Malmö residents.[76]
    In 2017 the Swedish government has proposed harsher punishments for possession of grenades.[77]"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...acks_in_Sweden

    *****

    *Posting above was composed before terrorist attack in Stockholm, Sweden, on April 7, 2017.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/328925...-a-no-go-zone/

    http://narrative-collapse.com/2017/0...ce-riot-day-2/

    http://www.dn.se/sthlm/dn-fotograf-m...lad-i-rinkeby/

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...e-its-not-safe

    http://www.government.se/articles/20...ime-in-sweden/...
    Last edited by Barry; 04-11-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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  4. TopTop #3
    Moon's Avatar
    Moon
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweden.

    All of our governments need to take in refugees and let them know, as soon as they apply and repeatedly therafter, that grossly brutal practices are illegal and will lead to years of imprisonment, followed by deportation. (Well, of course, good luck with that when, even in California, we can't keep our own cops from routinely carrying out grossly brutal practices.) Then we need to ride herd on the populations from regions where those practices are accepted and educate the public to be alert for the signs of such behavior. How to pay for that supervision? How about we do what the most senior generals and admirals have been requesting for years--mothballing nine-tenths of the nuclear arsenal--and fund it for the next 20 years?
    Last edited by Barry; 04-13-2017 at 12:29 PM.
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  6. TopTop #4
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    Quote snake wrote: View Post
    *Screw Carl Bildt...He is just another snobby, 'elite', weasel word, BSing politician who hasn't given a sh*t about Swedish immigrants, and immigrant assimilation for over 20 yrs. Therefore, he didn't give a crud about the safety of his own citizenry.
    right, 'cuz he's a politician, so he must be evil. And a snob. You know what they're all like - just the same as all immigrants are alike.

    I don't know enough about most of the sites you quoted to know if they're the equivalent of the New York Times (yeah, I know, a liberal rag) or something reliable like Breitbart. I do know the Sun, though, and for those of you who don't, here's the page referred to by the OP.


    Looks like a reputable source to me!

    I'm sure Sweeeden has problems with immigrants. It can't be easy for immigrants to fully assimilate. Even here, we have a lot of crime perpetrated by immigrants. Of course we have a lot more crime perpetrated by natural-born citizens. I don't know why the Sweeeedish experience would be all that different.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-14-2017 at 11:17 AM.
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  8. TopTop #5
    rossmen
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    What do we know about Sweden? Do you know anyone from there? I know three, yes they are rare, a great place too be, but they are here.

    Germany too, lots of immigrants there. The news is interesting, important for here.

    The point is open borders or no. We know how trump won. Shall we continue the self deception... how long is it possible? I'm a hands on man. I've benefited and suffered from our current policy. Where is the world going? Open borders or no, or continue the current confusing self deception?
    Last edited by Barry; 04-14-2017 at 11:17 AM.
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  9. TopTop #6
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    What do we know about Sweden?
    my point exactly. A lousy choice of boogeyman. A few anecdotes from questionable sources is good for entertainment value only. And to quote the queen, "I am NOT entertained".
    The point is open borders or no. We know how trump won. Shall we continue the self deception... how long is it possible? I'm a hands on man. I've benefited and suffered from our current policy. Where is the world going? Open borders or no, or continue the current confusing self deception?
    no, that's not the point. We've never had anything close to an open-border policy. This country's always been rough on immigrants. They're always demonized. Even when the native population had open borders, the European powers controlled immigration here.
    I don't get the 'self deception' part either. Nobody's being Pollyana, but there seem to be several with apocalyptic tendencies. The idea of keeping out all immigrants because some cause problems is on a par with getting all men out of the country because they're disproportionately violent. Actually, I know that idea resonates with some people.
    The key to living a humane life is to care about others, and to inconvenience yourself in order to benefit them. This whole 'America First' thing is so selfish I can't believe it. As I often have pointed out, it's not something you'd expect from a 'christian' nation. The whole ethical system of christianity is based on kindness and self-sacrifice. So even if in theory the immigrants are illegal and thus deserve whatever they get, in practice taking actions that harm so many people, or even neglecting to take action that could help people in need, is pretty evil.
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  11. TopTop #7
    rossmen
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    The problem with us is we don't think to learn from other nations. So do we want to go the way of Sweden or Canada? Both we can admire, with different immigrant policys. And as our current president ran on, neither choice is possible without stronger southern border. Myself, l'm for open borders, I'm comfortable with chaos and change.
    .
    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    my point exactly. A lousy choice of boogeyman. ....
    Last edited by Barry; 04-14-2017 at 11:19 AM.
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  13. TopTop #8
    snake
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweden.

    Quote Moon wrote: View Post
    All of our governments need to take in refugees and let them know, as soon as they apply and repeatedly therafter, that grossly brutal practices are illegal and will lead to years of imprisonment, followed by deportation. ...
    In the U.S. at least, we are suppose to have a darn tough vetting system. I'd like it to be even tougher, in light of all the terrorist wannabees around. I don't know if any Governments 'need' to take more people in...Most countries including the U.S. can't handle what they already have. Several gruesome, evil terrorist attacks, and more to come.

    I'm for doing a lot better helping our own drugged-out, mentally-ill citizens living in tent cities first, among other things.

    Oh well. It's nice to help people out when we can...and people all over the world do need a whole heck of a lot of help...But, our intelligence agencies are already overloaded, and we already have enough yahoos wanting to be like those evil, sick IS bastards.

    Geez, a chef, and a guy who works in a cancer treatment center, how nice.

    2 Chicago men arrested for holding ISIS flag, threatening to throw homosexuals from Sears Tower

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  15. TopTop #9
    snake
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    podfish wrote:
    "right, 'cuz he's a politician, so he must be evil. And a snob. You know what they're all like - just the same as all immigrants are alike."
    "I do know the Sun, though, and for those of you who don't, here's the page referred to by the OP."
    ***********

    What kind of posting is that, podfish?

    I didn't state the guy was 'evil', but did state he was a snobby ahole, because he was, and so are other politicians. And who stated, "all politicians', and 'all immigrants' are alike"?

    Try to comprehend correctly please, because I really do not like it when people assume things, and pull assumptions out of thin air. It's a nasty human tendency when people don't like, or don't agree with what someone else is saying, or writing.

    I posted a variety of links...I can't help it if some sites have sleezy ads...So, since you made a big deal, and got a kick about some sleazy ads, and not on what some citizens, and an economist are talking about, I guess that is where your brain likes to go..
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  16. TopTop #10
    snake
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    rossman wrote:
    " The idea of keeping out all immigrants... This whole 'America First' thing is so selfish I can't believe it. As I often have pointed out, it's not something you'd expect from a 'christian' nation. The whole ethical system of christianity is based on kindness and self-sacrifice."...


    When has anyone of note recently stated something about keeping 'out all immigrants'?

    And why is 'America First' 'so 'selfish'?... We are one of the most generous countries in the world...And we've got Vets killing themselves every day, a lack of proper training for vocational jobs, many inner city kids and families not doing so good, and more needy homeless, and others on the streets than I have ever seen before, etc. etc.

    ..."The whole ethical system of christianity is based on kindness and self-sacrifice."...And how much 'kindness', and 'self-sacrifice' would that be?

    A Swedish family just lost their beautiful 12 year old daughter in this last terrorist attack. A mother with an 18 month old murdered and so mangled it took over two days to identify her, and who ironically helped rejected asylum seekers like the one who murdered her.

    Is that enough 'self-sacrifice' for you? How about you 'self-sacrificing' yourself?

    That rejected asylum seeker, and all the other terrorists, committed the ultimate 'self-sacrifice' for Allah, and believed they were going to paradise for their 'self-sacrifice.'

    Sometimes, maybe it's better to be 'selfish', if you are 'selfish' about the right things.
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  17. TopTop #11
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    Quote snake wrote: View Post
    I said: 'This whole 'America First' thing is so selfish I can't believe it. "

    your reply:
    And why is 'America First' 'so 'selfish'?... We are one of the most generous countries in the world...

    .. And I also said: "The whole ethical system of christianity is based on kindness and self-sacrifice.".
    your reply:

    ..And how much 'kindness', and 'self-sacrifice' would that be?
    ...
    Sometimes, maybe it's better to be 'selfish', if you are 'selfish' about the right things.
    I should probably insert a quote from some dictionary... The phrase "America First" is "Me first" spread around more widely. And a kid coming up to the teacher saying "me first" stops being cute after kindergarten. You're also not disputing my statement about christian ethics.

    Of course people need to act in their own self-interest and that of their family and community. But that's not a blank check, and damning a whole class of people because of the actions of a few is indeed evil. So no, it's never better to be selfish. It might be smart to be careful, but callous disregard for the needs of others is shameful.
    Last edited by podfish; 04-15-2017 at 01:25 PM. Reason: I kan't spel
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  19. TopTop #12
    Moon's Avatar
    Moon
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweden.

    Could we all take a deep breath?
    The first c in waccobb.net stands for conscious, and I think what all of us mean by that is something beyond "not in coma." The flaming, sarcasm, ill-wishing (e.g., for someone to lose a loved one to terrorism) and just all-around uglymouth that have shown up in my Inbox have given me serious pause, though. Can everyone keep in mind that we're all trying to figure a way out of the same dilemma: how to keep the largest possible number of people safe (i.e., both people fleeing battle zone, starvation, etc., and those already living here)?
    Thank you.
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  21. TopTop #13
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweden.

    Quote Moon wrote: View Post
    Could we all take a deep breath?
    The first c in waccobb.net stands for conscious, and I think what all of us mean by that is something beyond "not in coma." The flaming, sarcasm, ill-wishing (e.g., for someone to lose a loved one to terrorism) and just all-around uglymouth that have shown up in my Inbox have given me serious pause, though. Can everyone keep in mind that we're all trying to figure a way out of the same dilemma: how to keep the largest possible number of people safe (i.e., both people fleeing battle zone, starvation, etc., and those already living here)?
    Thank you.
    you don't think sarcasm is appropriate??? I can't really imagine a reassuring "sure, that's a great point you have... let me maybe possibly disagree a little bit if you don't mind?? I don't think this site's particularly troubled by flaming or trolling. Obviously not all agree, but a public forum for debate can be civil even when it's not affirming. It's certainly conscious!!
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  23. TopTop #14
    snake
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    The problem with us is we don't think to learn from other nations. So do we want to go the way of Sweden or Canada? Both we can admire, with different immigrant policys. And as our current president ran on, neither choice is possible without stronger southern border. Myself, l'm for open borders, I'm comfortable with chaos and change.
    .
    In other words, you are fine with illegal people coming into the country and maiming, and murdering people.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-29-2017 at 10:44 AM.
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  24. TopTop #15
    snake
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.



    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    I should probably insert a quote from some dictionary... The phrase "America First" is "Me first" spread around more widely. And a kid coming up to the teacher saying "me first" stops being cute after kindergarten. You're also not disputing my statement about christian ethics.

    Of course people need to act in their own self-interest and that of their family and community. But that's not a blank check, and damning a whole class of people because of the actions of a few is indeed evil. So no, it's never better to be selfish. It might be smart to be careful, but callous disregard for the needs of others is shameful.

    Finally getting back to this posting...

    I think it depends on what a particular person means when they say, 'America First'. I don't automatically think of it as 'selfish' in a bad way like you do. Obviously, people have very different perceptions about such statements. The original "America First", was formed in 1941 as an isolationist group to stay out of the war, but the bombing of Pearl Harbor changed that. It would be absurd, of course, to try and be isolationist now, but I do understand the frustration and anger towards "Globalization" with the U.S. losing thousands of jobs, and the anger regards the apathy and demeaning attitudes towards the 'deplorables', towards those who don't think like many 'Liberals' on the West or East Coast.

    Feeling patriotic, and wanting to have a better life doesn't automatically mean you are a 'selfish' person. As an elder friend of mine use to ask, "What is wrong with taking care of your own first?" Having said that though, it is of utmost importance that the U.S. be the leader in the world, because we still are 'the best' in many ways. The more sane world looks to us to lead the way, so we better get our act together and stand up for those values our ancestors fought and died for, and stop being so cowardly, and PC., and listen to those suffering and facing death and torture in the oppressive Islamic world, and other places as well.

    So, what is 'selfish' and what is 'being careful' these days? Where is that balance between 'self, family, community preservation', and 'Christian ethics'? What does that look like? (The Western world as a whole, sure hasn't shown much interest in the suffering Christians, and Yazidis in the ME. See below).

    This Polish priest speaking here (along with many of his compatriots) is quite clear where his 'balance' is between 'being careful' and 'Christian ethics'.

    ..."It's obvious to me the leftist propaganda does it's best to destroy us, destroy the Church, and destroy the Polish people"...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch
    *****

    "A few"? How many is 'a few'? And I never said anything about 'damning' a 'whole class of people', nor do I have a 'callous disregard' for the needs of other's, simply for thinking our citizen's needs and protections should come first. I do however know we need to be super-duper extra careful. All the Islamic terrorist attacks show us that there very much is a problem with violent fanaticism in Islam. Not to mention all the Muslims supporting it, support for Sharia law, underage marriage, polygamy, FGM, Jew hatred, homo hatred, etc. There is no such thing as 'free speech', or, 'freedom of religion' in the dominating Islamic countries of the world, and many carry that attitude with them.

    No-one is willing to print Mohammed cartoons now. Terrorism is working. You want that?

    The Islamic doctors being prosecuted for FGM in Michigan are going to use the 'religious freedom' defense. If that doesn't sicken every single sane western person, and make them realize many people wanting to come into our country DO NOT care about integrating, and upholding our good western values, and laws, I don't know what would.

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2017/0727/Michigan-FGM-case-could-test-bounds-of-religious-liberty
    *****

    I don't expect people to believe me about how serious these problems are, but after all the Islamic terrorist attacks happening (and thwarted) almost every day all over the world, including almost all western countries now, I don't understand people who still want to deny the reality of how much violent fanaticism, extremism, is within Islam. The perpetration of the term 'Islamophobia' to shut down critical discourse of Islam, failure of 'our own' to stand up to abuse and cruelty for fear of being called 'racist', or 'bigot' is particularly weak and shameful. Maybe some people will be willing to listen to those Muslims and ex-Muslims who live inside that culture, and others who have been harmed by it.

    "By The Numbers" (Raheel Raza narrates - A Sunni Canadian Muslim who has received death threats).

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pSPvnFDDQHk
    *****

    "Islam and the necessity of Liberal critique." (Sarah Haider, U.S. ex Muslim).

    ..."So, why is it so difficult for many on the left to criticize Islam? Why do they shy away from it? I believe that the primary reason is that many are simply incapable of separating the criticism of an idea with the hate directed towards the people, and immediately call the first, racism. That idea should not be entertained for very long"...

    ..."Islamophobia is a meaningless term. It serves to confuse and to muddle two very different forms of intolerance, based on two very different reasons towards which there should be two very different reactions"...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0plC24YuoJk
    *****

    Hamed Samad on Islamic 'Fascism'. (Egyptian Ex-Muslim under Fatwa)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJGD4bMw8o
    *****

    Zineb El Rhazoui (Charlie Hebdo Writer)

    "She leads a clandestine existence, on the move and under 24-hour guard as France’s most protected woman. Yet Zineb El Rhazoui, the Charlie Hebdo journalist who happened to be in Casablanca on January 7 last year, the day terrorists “avenging the Prophet” massacred nine people at the satirical magazine in Paris, believes she has a duty to defy Islamists desperate to silence her."...

    http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/10/18/zineb-el-rhazoui-charlie-hebdo-survivor-discusses-why-the-world-needs-to-destroy-islamic-fascism/
    *****

    Why did the U.S.Senate Ignore Aayan Hirsi Ali, and Sara Nomani?

    ..."She went on to make it even clearer, adding, “There is no point in denying that political Islam as an ideology has its foundation in Islamic doctrine.”

    But Democratic senators on the committee didn’t want to hear it."...

    https://clarionproject.org/senate-ayaan-asra/
    *****

    The Betrayed Girls: The Rochdale Scandal

    How British police and others allowed Pakistani male 'gangs' to continue raping white, underage vulnerable girls. Aka, 'Sex Grooming'.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9srYOqHIrbk
    *****

    "Muslim children attending mosques and Islamic schools are being taught to hate America, our government, our military personnel and its non Muslim population. In this article I will identify three significant mosques in America that are leading the way in teaching Muslim children to hate and influencing them to commit violent acts inside our country."

    https://clarionproject.org/american-muslim-children-taught-hate/
    *****

    "East London mosque has filed formal complaint about CEMB to Pride."

    ..."The East London Mosque has a long history of hosting hate preachers who incite against blasphemers, apostates and homosexuals so we felt naming and shaming them was very apt."...

    ..."Self-appointed “Muslim leaders” say our placards were “Islamophobic”. But in our point of view, Islam, like all religions, is homophobic. Why is it not possible to say this without accusations of Islamophobia?"...

    ..."The only reasons our signs are seen to be “provocative” are because criticism of Islam is deemed to be impermissible, because there is the constant threat of violence by Islamists against ex-Muslims but also dissenting Muslims and others in order to silence and censor, and because criticism of Islam and Islamism is erroneously conflated with an attack on Muslims."...

    https://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/east-london-mosque-has-filed-formal-complaint-about-cemb-to-pride/
    *****

    Tarek Fatah (Muslim under Fatwa). Muslims against M-103 Canada. (Unfortunately, after this speech, M103 passed ). Tarek speaks passionately about the hypocrisy of elected Muslims wanting to pass an 'Islamophobia' bill in Canada. (If you don't want to watch all of it, the last ten minutes is worth it).

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GB1Dx5NplxY
    *****

    "Dr Rifi and Tawhidi condemned the attack. Tawhidi went further, saying young people were being radicalised, even in Australia, “because of the Islamic scriptures that we have”

    “They push the Muslim youth to believe that if you go out there and you kill the infidel that’s how you will gain paradise.""

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/islam-infested-by-extremists-moderate-muslim-cleric-says/news-story/e4020668bba6c222d83141f10e58070a
    *****

    Arabic writer Shtiwi Al-Ghithi on ISIS/Arabic ideology

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QKhu4jBZDd0
    *****

    Exclusive interview with Yazidi Leader: West to Blame for Our Genocide.

    ..."“We are peaceful people that just want to live how God created us. If God didn’t want us, he would not create us. There are many different faiths that suffered genocide by the Muslims. The Mandeans, the Zoroastrians, the Assyrians, etc. The region used to belong to them. The West knows that the Muslims came via genocidal forces. There were Jewish people in many parts of the Middle East. Where are they now? Where are the Zoroastrians? They were all killed or converted to Islam.”...

    https://clarionproject.org/exclusive-interview-yazidi-leader-west-blame-genocide/
    *****

    And KRBC shows it's cowardly face by cancelling Richard Dawkins Interview because he criticizes Islam...Wow, imagine that...Mr. Atheist criticizing a religion. Maybe, they were afraid of getting blown up?

    Complete cowardice by KRCB along with Universities like Berkeley for not supporting free speech...Shame on them.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/us/richard-dawkins-speech-canceled-berkeley.html
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  25. TopTop #16
    Moon's Avatar
    Moon
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    Just to distinguish between Islam and certain Muslims, as one might distinguish between Christianity and certain Paulists: Not only does the Q'ran not prescribe FGM, it explicitly forbids child abuse in any form, as well as anything that would tend to interfere with the bond between husband and wife.

    Quote snake wrote: View Post
    Finally getting back to this posting...
    Last edited by Barry; 07-30-2017 at 11:19 AM.
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  27. TopTop #17
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    boy, I thought I made long posts...

    Quote snake wrote: View Post
    Finally getting back to this posting... (rebuttals of some of my/podfish comments follow...)I think it depends on what a particular person means when they say, 'America First'. I don't automatically think of it as 'selfish' in a bad way like you do....Feeling patriotic, and wanting to have a better life doesn't automatically mean you are a 'selfish' person...." Having said that though, it is of utmost importance that the U.S. be the leader in the world, because we still are 'the best' in many ways. The more sane world looks to us to lead the way, so we better get our act together and stand up for those values our ancestors fought and died for, and stop being so cowardly, and PC., and listen to those suffering and facing death and torture in the oppressive Islamic world, and other places as well.

    .....I don't understand people who still want to deny the reality of how much violent fanaticism, extremism, is within Islam. The perpetration of the term 'Islamophobia' to shut down critical discourse of Islam, failure of 'our own' to stand up to abuse and cruelty for fear of being called 'racist', or 'bigot' is particularly weak and shameful
    (followed by a litany of bad things associated with some muslim people/groups - including these lovely ones: )

    How British police and others allowed Pakistani male 'gangs' to continue raping white, underage vulnerable girls. Aka, 'Sex Grooming'.
    ...

    "Muslim children attending mosques and Islamic schools are being taught to hate America, our government, our military personnel and its non Muslim population.
    That's what's wrong with the selfish 'America first'. As you prove in your post, it leads toward disregard of or hostility to those in groups that are not-us. It asserts that it's fine to treat individuals primarily as members of some group. That's the definition of acting from racism or bigotry. Just because some individuals of that group somehow manage to sneak through and become honorary 'ones of us' doesn't make people who think that way non-racists or non-bigots. Also, claiming that many people deny that there's any violent fanatics who follow Islam is ridiculous. It's ground to tread carefully, because it so easily slides into Islamophobia, but sure, you can compare religious traditions to find some more peaceful and others more accepting of violence. Christianity and Islam both fall into the second group. If this country was close to becoming an Islamic state, maybe it would be a discussion worth having, but currently we're fighting against being controlled by Christian fundamentalist views instead.
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  29. TopTop #18
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    Quote snake wrote: View Post
    In other words, you are fine with illegal people coming into the country and maiming, and murdering people.
    no, I insist only legal people get to do that.

    what a weird thing to draw from his post....
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  31. TopTop #19
    kpage9's Avatar
    kpage9
    Co-Creating Member

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    podfish, i think i love you.
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  33. TopTop #20
    rossmen
     

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    Snake is focused on potential violence and deep cultural difference. My experience is that our immigration policy, which is an open back door, suppresses working class wages. This is a big factor in income inequality.

    And the alienating experience in second class noncitizen communities contributes to criminality. The policy is by design, the last two two term presidents tried reform and failed.

    Fortunately in the us most backdoor immigrants are from latin america so cultural difference is minor. Europe not so, time will keep telling. This is important, the trend is for more desperate immigration.


    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    no, I insist only legal people get to do that.

    what a weird thing to draw from his post....
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  34. TopTop #21
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    Snake is focused on potential violence and deep cultural difference. ...
    I completely agree. Maybe addressing income inequality and not treating some communities as 'second class' would be a good idea. How you phrase an issue dictates how you deal with it. Seeing this as 'them' hurting 'us' implies that keeping 'them' away would make everything hunky-dory again. But hmm... there's still income inequality, and still second-class citizen communities. That's not so great. And maybe those are more important issues after all. Maybe addressing those issues would lessen the impact of illegal immigration a lot more than directly attacking the immigrants.
    Last edited by Barry; 08-02-2017 at 02:04 PM.
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  36. TopTop #22
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: Immigrants improve Sweeden.

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    Snake is focused on potential violence and deep cultural difference. My experience is that our immigration policy, which is an open back door, suppresses working class wages. ...
    Our immigration policy is not "an open back door." As a farmer, I would like to report that California ag. would not be possible without immigrants. Most white people would not take the really hard work, especially since the corporate wineries and others pay such low wages.

    Immigrants are not nearly as criminal as billionaires and the rest of the 1%. My family immigrated, as most of yours did. Let's honor the Statue of Liberty.
    Last edited by Barry; 08-02-2017 at 02:05 PM.
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