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  1. TopTop #1
    hanford
    Supporting Member

    roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    Does any one know why ,green valley rd,is closed with big concrete blocks.
    The issue with road has been not addressed by county for years 7or more.
    Creek next to road has not been properly cleared out for decades ,it is monitored
    by fish&game is a steel head stream .
    The issue is , the creek not routed by ditching in summer to keep it in its banks
    and fish not in creek in dry season,also the unlimited pollution of said creek by
    greedy wine industry grape vineyards,on both sides of road, one next to the road
    and others upstream ,I would name .the but they are known.
    And so Sonoma county again serves only the elite wealthy wine racket.
    You will notice wich roads actually got pavement past years. Boho grove,
    other tourism,wine,gambling dens of you name it.
    I strongly suggest taxpayers write call local reps ,Fix roads for family peoples.
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  3. TopTop #2
    csell
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    There have been numerous public meetings about the Green Valley Rd. flooding problem. The most recent one--last week--described an emergency "fixit" that was scheduled to start on Feb. 14th, but the permits were not issued in time. They are anticipating a 2-3 week delay for the permits, and then the dredging work will take a week, plus about 2 weeks of rebuilding the road (not just repaving, the whole thing is undermined). With any luck, the road will open around the beginning of April.

    The big issue on this particular piece of road is that 11 agencies/parties have to give approval to a long-term solution, and you can guess how long that is going to take...they estimate that we're still years away.

    Thank you to Gold Ridge RCD for staying on top of this issue. Brittany, John and Sierra in particular have been great at community outreach and keeping us informed.

    --Carolyn

    Quote hanford wrote: View Post
    Does any one know why ,green valley rd,is closed with big concrete blocks.....
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  5. TopTop #3
    spam1's Avatar
    spam1
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    Quote csell wrote: View Post
    There have been numerous public meetings about the Green Valley Rd. flooding problem. The most recent one--last week--described an emergency "fixit" that was scheduled to start on Feb. 14th, but the permits were not issued in time. They are anticipating a 2-3 week delay for the permits,
    --Carolyn
    Look to this to understand why Trump won.

    Clearly an emergency situation. clearly bad for the fish to be washed into the vineyard with no exit. Linda Hopkins expected an emergency permit issued in a day. Instead a faceless (but not nameless: Mr. Weightman, aptly named for the lethargy in responding to an emergency situation) refused to act swiftly on something very clearly needed. If it were up to him, Oroville would be washed away by now (where was the permit to release the extra water or dump boulders on the overflow?).

    No, it is mindless, soulless people in these government agencies that can't and don't care what happens as long as they can maintain their government job for life and pension after, and all they have to do is to follow a paper trail. And no way could they work an minute extra to get a permit approved faster. Surely, he could have raised this a supervisor, and on up, until it reached a level that could act responsibly and say something like "With administrative authority, acting in an emergency situation, I authorize work to be done, and please also file the proper papers so retroactive permits could be issued"; even if this authority had to be the governor. But no, we languish, the fish languish, and road washes further away. Higher costs, poorer outcomes, and you want all of our lives to be managed in this way?
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  7. TopTop #4
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    This is an unfair & gross generalization.

    I've worked w the County & City for a no of yrs … on a variety of projects … & been helped by many of their well-intentioned employees. They've often helped me to find the best solution, within the constraint of policies & laws.
    Quote spam1 wrote: View Post
    ...No, it is mindless, soulless people in these government agencies that can't and don't care what happens as long as they can maintain their government job for life and pension after, ...
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  9. TopTop #5
    spam1's Avatar
    spam1
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    Quote tommy wrote: View Post
    This is an unfair & gross generalization.
    I'm not sure what "This" refers to. If "This" means the kind of governmental response we see here to an emergency situation as one of the proximate causes of Trumps election, then no, I don't think it is unfair or a generalization.

    The negative impact of Government environmental regulations on rural communities, often with what to us mere mortals seems ridiculous over-reach, and than the lack of any sort of proportionality and reasonableness is exactly the kind of things that move many formally blue states into the red.

    Here in our enlightened enclave, we might not recognize it, but it is really true. Just take one look at Green Valley creek flowing through Green Valley road, a real-life specific example, and you can see that the lack of urgent response, meaning working nights and weekends even for a bureaucrat, to alleviate the emergency situation is a clear example of what people are sick of. The response "well you have to get all the proper permits first" does not make sense in an EMERGENCY SITUATION! How is it that you cannot understand that? Adding 20-40 minutes to an ambulance or fire call is life and death. But not to Mr. Weightman. It's just another day at the office.
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  11. TopTop #6
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.



    Quote spam1 wrote: View Post
    Look to this to understand why Trump won.

    Clearly an emergency situation. clearly bad for the fish to be washed into the vineyard with no exit. Linda Hopkins expected an emergency permit issued in a day.?...

    No, it is mindless, soulless people in these government agencies that can't and don't care what happens as long as they can maintain their government job for life and pension after, and all they have to do is to follow a paper trail.
    I agree with you about the Trump part. People feel that regulations get in the way of things they think are perfectly harmless or obviously no one else's business. Unfortunately on many of their parts that means things like throwing old tires and car parts in the creek below their fields (one of my favorite features of old farms). You can easily come up with more current equivalents. Your point of view only works if people fully understand the situation, are of pure motive and that there are no reasonable dissenters. Seems like a rare situation to me. At best you risk unintended side effects. As I've posted before Trump is giving me a new respect for regulations.

    Plus, the cliché "no good deed goes unpunished" applies. Bureaucracies aren't typically set up to reward independent actions from their members - that's why they made it a bureau in the first place
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  13. TopTop #7
    spam1's Avatar
    spam1
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    Your point of view only works if people fully understand the situation, are of pure motive...
    Yes, in the normal course of events regulations are needed to prevent individuals from defiling the environs, however when the regulations or their implementation become the end, rather than the means toward a goal, then we arrive at our situation.

    But to the specific point: this is not the case of a farmer wanting to dump tractor tires; here the county supervisor, the county roads manager, the Gold Ridge RCD AND the Sonoma County Water Agency all agree it is an emergency situation and the best course of action is immediate action. And a State Wildlife bureaucrat refuses to act expeditiously. The first (and last) recourse of a bureaucrat is: "well if we make an exception this time....". Exceptional circumstances demand exceptions. The goal is to provide a safe environment for people and fish. The current situation does nothing toward that goal, and EACH DAY it goes on it gets worse for both. Clearly this is a case where the regulations are followed as an end, not as a means to reach a goal, which is protection of people and fish.

    The greatest benefit of Trump being president is the certain recognition that accreting power to the highest pinnacle of the national level is a very bad idea. The concept of devolving federal control to the states, and state control to the local regions, which is what the move of California seceding embodies; and is a good thing.
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  15. TopTop #8
    Dorothy Friberg's Avatar
    Dorothy Friberg
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    I am not sure why everyone is getting so excited about Green Valley Creek, I've used that road for 42 years and it has always flooded in heavy rains. WE are encroaching on a natural watershed (which used to house salmon smolts).

    Sometimes watersheds redirect themselves. A number of years ago the county wanted to repave the whole of Green Valley Road and a few schoolchildren petitioned them to leave it alone because they thought that it would create some kind of raceway for road users and in their opinion endangering kids leaving school buses.

    That road was first a deer trail, then the Pomo used it to go to pocket canyon to gather hazelnuts (and probably gather vegetation and hunt deer) Then when Sullivan settled just above the flooding (Sullivan road) in the late 1800s it became what we know of as a road. Finally (probably in mid-20th century the county tarred it. That road had no proper roadbed, it is 8 miles of patches.

    If you want to worry about Green Valley Creek, pay attention to how many marshes and meanders have been filled or straightened for the convenience. And such desecration continues to this day.
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  17. TopTop #9
    SonomaPatientsCoop's Avatar
    SonomaPatientsCoop
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    Hmm. Pot meet kettle. Look in the mirror... The government does not regulate for the thrill of it, nor because "they can".

    Government regulates because people- and their corporations, are selfish a*****s.

    I'm sure every single person here whining about the inneficency of regulations has also whined about individuals or corporations violating regulations. Or about the lack of regulations on some big evil industry.

    We are seeing a microcosm of this in the local cannabis industry- an industry that has caused more then its fair share of problems due to zero regulation. And while I'll be the first to admit- the coming regulations are harsher then any other industry has to put up with, I'll also admit... it is whats coming for your industry as well. For better or worse the regulations are a needed evil to curb the basic human conditions of greed and selfisheness.

    If people- and the industries they control were good and pure- we wouldn't have these issues. Sadly, a lot of those that go farthest in this world do so by being as****s with no concern but for themselves and their supporters.
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  19. TopTop #10
    spam1's Avatar
    spam1
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    Quote Dorothy Friberg wrote: View Post
    I am not sure why everyone is getting so excited about Green Valley Creek, y.
    I've only used the road for 14 years, so a relative newcomer. But in 2000 the distance from the creek bed to the roadbed was about 7-10 feet. Now it is about 3 feet. Up until the '90's the creek in that area was regularly dredged and the long term plan is to dredge back a ways (1/4 mile) up from the cemetery to create a change in flow so that sediment will settle far from the bridge and close to where it can be periodically removed.

    The creek used to flood a few times a year, up during heavy rains, down in a day. Now the creek does not substantially flow under the bridge at all. There is a channel through Green Valley road. The creek flows through the road 2 weeks after the rains stop. This is completely unsustainable, has to be fixed, unfair to the vineyard owner for sure, and was the plan by Supervisor Hopkins, and all the local agencies. Then the state refused to act on emergency permits. That's what the fuss is about. Having the road closed for weeks is not usual; having the road destroyed is not usual, having the fish migrated to the middle of the vineyard is not usual and is not good. Have Mr. Weightman in State Wildlife do nothing while Rome floods, now that's usual. But should not be.
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  21. TopTop #11
    spam1's Avatar
    spam1
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    Quote SonomaPatientsCoop wrote: View Post
    Hmm. Pot meet kettle. Look in the mirror... The government does not regulate for the thrill of it, nor because "they can".
    Well, I'm not sure that's entirely true. Bureaucracies increase because the first rule of bureaucracies is to protect and increase the bureaucracy. Many start out with good intentions, but those with good intentions, regulating to meet some goal, leave and what is left is those to whom the regulations are goal.

    I cite a specific instance where all bad is happening from the regulations; bad for people, bad for road, bad for fish. No commercial interests are involved; the participants include all the local agencies and local government officials. How is it that one cannot point out a complete failure of the state government agency to respond, with clear, unambiguous evidence of harm, and yet there are still apologists for the state agency position?
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  23. TopTop #12
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    Quote spam1 wrote: View Post
    Bureaucracies increase because the first rule of bureaucracies is to protect and increase the bureaucracy. ..... How is it that one cannot point out a complete failure of the state government agency to respond, with clear, unambiguous evidence of harm, and yet there are still apologists for the state agency position?
    because your first premise is too glib. Anyway I thought the first rule was don’t talk about the bureaucracy but probably I'm confusing that with something else. I agree it's a failure but the explanation you give for it is unconvincing and insulting. Maybe he deserves to be insulted but your initial statement makes me think not.
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  24. TopTop #13
    Dorothy Friberg's Avatar
    Dorothy Friberg
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    Sorry, I don't eat spam-too salty. Are you an apologist for that vineyard owner ("unfair?") They recently brought rows of grapevines right down into the natural watershed (greed). And on the other side of the road (where "distance from the creek is now 3 feet") we have witnessed a familiar sight in these here parts - disposal of waste and trash by the roadside. In this case huge stumps, with the effect of diverting the creek closer to the road. Last year there was some work there but more work remains to be done. Sign me Dorothy Friberg, fish lover
    Quote spam1 wrote: View Post
    I've only used the road for 14 years, so a relative newcomer. But ...
    Last edited by Barry; 02-22-2017 at 10:54 AM.
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  26. TopTop #14
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    The SonomWest did an article recently about several local closed roads. Here's the bit about Green Valley Road:

    Don’t expect to drive from Guerneville to Graton on Green Valley Road any time soon.

    The local thoroughfare and favored scenic route for river residents heading to Sebastopol or Santa Rosa remains closed owing to the rain-swollen Green Valley Creek jumping its banks, crossing the road and meandering through an adjacent vineyard.

    Not even locals with all-terrain trucks can get through since county road crews installed concrete barricades two weeks ago and chained them together last week to prevent their removal.

    “People who live around here pushed them out of the way and drove through,” said one long-time Green Valley Road resident checking out the creek crossing last Saturday.

    The barricade is not popular with local residents accustomed to crossing the creek when it’s shallow enough to ford where it flows across Green Valley Road.

    “It makes no sense,” said the resident checking the blockade last weekend. “You could drive a Prius across there now.”

    The 40-year resident said he’s frustrated not knowing when work on the blocked road will commence after Sonoma County officials postponed starting the repair last week. “They keep changing the story,” he said.

    “We’re waiting for an incidental take permit from the state Department of Fish and Wildlife,” to protect species of concern in Green Valley Creek including Coho salmon and freshwater shrimp, said Sonoma County Water Agency spokeswoman Ann DuBay. “We hope to have that permit in one to two weeks.”

    State officials have been “really cooperative” in trying to expedite the permitting processes, said DuBay. “Normally it takes several months to get those kinds of permits.”

    With Green Valley Road closed drivers heading east must detour up the narrow twisty section of Harrison Grade Road to get to Graton or Occidental roads and over to Highway 116, an approximately 25 minute trip.

    “Harrison Grade is twice as dangerous” as Green Valley Road, even with the creek flowing over it, said an onlooker on the Forestville side of the barricade last weekend.

    Repairing and re-opening Green Valley Road looks weeks away, at best, depending on the weather, say county officials. And it’s not the only west county thoroughfare staying closed for now.


    Continues here with coverage about Old Cazadero Road, Cazadero Highway, Duncan Road and Old Monte Rio Road.

    Last edited by Barry; 02-23-2017 at 12:09 PM.
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  28. TopTop #15
    heresbruce's Avatar
    heresbruce
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    2/23/2017 2:06 PM
    Green Valley Road is open to one lane with signed traffic control - please travel slowly through this area
    http://roadconditions.sonoma-county.org/
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  30. TopTop #16
    csell
     

    Re: roads of importance,some are created more equal.

    From Gold Ridge RCD:

    Hello,

    This morning, water levels on the road receded enough to allow Transportation and Public Works (TPW - the folks who fix the roads) to do a preliminary evaluation of the segment of Green Valley Road that has been inundated with water. TPW staff are working to open the road to one lane by the end of the day on Thursday, 2/23, with stop controls for alternating traffic.

    The water is currently running at about 3” deep. TPW staff believe that a normal vehicle, driven cautiously, can now ford the creek that is running across the road. There is only one-lane of good pavement right now, as well as a large pothole at one end. TPW crews are filling the pothole as best they can, and will move the barrier to the side at each end such that it channels people into the one passable lane (the upstream lane). TPW staff will monitor the situation to make sure the road stays passable through the weekend.

    While we know the community has been navigating the road under flood conditions for years, we would like to remind people to drive very slowly, be extremely cautious, stick to the upstream lane, and that everyone is fording at their own risk.

    TPW staff will follow up with local emergency response to make sure they know the route will have a single lane open and be accessible.

    In regard to work on the creek itself, the Water Agency and County staff are working on the permitting issue daily, are in constant communication with CDFW, and have committed $32,500 to the permit application process. At this point, all involved parties are actively working together to obtain the permit. We don’t have a firm date for issuance of the permit, but anticipate 1-2 weeks, and will let you know when it is received and work in the creek can begin.

    The Water Agency will start work in the creek as soon as they have the permit (weather permitting!). Construction equipment and activities related to creek work will require the full use of the road. To allow for this work, the road will be closed during construction. Construction will last approximately one week, and will result in increased access to Green Valley Road in future rain events.
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