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  1. TopTop #61

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    Margot, I'm glad to hear that Barry helps you out, but that was not what my post was about.
    My sentiment is about how I'm being marginalized by old timers like Shepherd and Ross because I point out the fallacies in John's thinking and actions. That's seems to be a no-no, time to circle the wagons on this site.
    Shepherd identified me as a lone observer of WF problems, I knew I wasn't but Barry and others showed Gratitude for that post.
    Isn't it funny how Barry has now started a new thread with the title;
    Improving traffic flow by Whole Foods

    wonder were he got that idea, from Shepherd maybe....

    If you go to that thread, you'll see that John (who ignored my previous questions for him) responds, Shepherd responds and probably more of the old boys clan will.
    Quote thea71096 wrote: View Post
    What a bummer you feel that way. For a few years now Barry has politely and sincerely answered every idiotic question I asked and helped me maneuver this site. He's professional, personable and extremely fast to respond.
    Margot
    Last edited by Barry; 02-26-2017 at 09:46 AM.
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  2. TopTop #62

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    John, I know you wont reply to me but I'm writing this more for the greater good of Sebastopol.
    The way to solve the L-turn into CVS would be simple. Right now, John being the most active in bringing down CVS, is petitioning for a complete ban into CVS or any other future store. A physical barrier would make that feasible. The reason that it would make the traffic flow better is a fallacy. The problem that it doesn't address is the strange lane change that follows where you think you're going straight up Bodega, but then it turns out you're stuck in the L-turn lane onto Main. My proposal would make the traffic flow better in all lanes.
    By not allowing a right turn onto Petaluma ave, and directing the traffic to McKinley before Petaluma Ave via Morris or Depot or Barlow, It takes traffic off of 12 and the CVS intersection.
    You end up with TWO lanes, the right lane would be for straight to Bodega traffic, the left lane would be for left turns into Barnes AND Main street.
    To see CVS fail, would also mean other stores there will fail. Is that in the best interest of Sebastopol?
    Think about it John, are you interested in what's good for Sebastopol in the long run or what's good for you in the short run in getting back at CVS?

    Quote John Eder wrote: View Post
    Terriann,

    Regarding your question about left turns into/out of the CVS project from/on to Highway 12:

    The Mitigated Negative Declaration/Initial Study for the CVS project incorporates the AECOM (traffic engineering consultants) Transportation Impact Study, dated March 16, 2011. This study was commissioned and adopted by the Sebastopol City Council immediately preceding the one upon which I served.

    The report discusses the intersection of Barnes Avenue (herein referred to as “the driveway”) and Sebastopol Avenue (Highway 12), concluding on Page 32: “Thus, it is recommended that a right-in/right-out restriction for the Project driveway on Sebastopol Avenue be implemented.”

    It further states, “The recommended right-in/right-out restriction on Sebastopol Avenue driveway can be implemented through physical barriers and traffic channelizing devices such as barrier wall systems, wide raised medians, non-traversable curb islands, and traversable raised curb systems. For example, a barrier wall system can be implemented between opposing travel lanes on Sebastopol Avenue in order to restrict left turns into and out of the driveway. Barrier wall systems are effective for deterring violations, but the driveway can also be designed with a channelizing concrete island to further deter left-in/left-out turns.”

    It concludes that, “A barrier wall system would create a barrier between westbound and eastbound on Sebastopol Avenue, which would restrict westbound vehicles from crossing over to the eastbound travel lanes in order to make a left turn into the driveway. Similarly, the barrier would restrict northbound vehicles from making a left turn out of the driveway. The concrete island would restrict maneuverability to allow entry/exit from/to the eastbound direction.”

    Caltrans submitted a letter to the City of Sebastopol on September 20, 2012 that agreed with the need to place a restriction on left turns at this location. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 02-26-2017 at 09:48 AM.
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  3. TopTop #63
    rossmen
     

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    I think this is a terrible idea. Left turns on busy highways without a turn lane? And most local drivers coming west on 12 turning north already take the alternative routes.

    Please take critique of your ideas and people not responding to you a little less seriously. The only person with any real power here is barry, and the worst he can do is kick you off, not a big deal and some would say a badge of honor! I for one welcome your participation on waccobb.

    Quote Bob2 wrote: View Post
    John, I know you wont reply to me but I'm writing this more for the greater good of Sebastopol.
    The way to solve the L-turn into CVS would be simple. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 02-26-2017 at 09:49 AM.
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  5. TopTop #64

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    Ross, the lane would be the L-Turn lane, just like it it is right now turning onto Main.

    I'm irked by the hypocrisy of some lost sheep...
    Im just an Ol' Foole, Ross
    I thought this site was more for diversity, but me thinks it's more about follow the leader

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    I think this is a terrible idea. Left turns on busy highways without a turn lane? ....
    Last edited by Barry; 02-26-2017 at 09:49 AM.
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  6. TopTop #65

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    I rarely use 12 to get into town. I come down Healdsburg and go back on Petaluma or Bodega. So yesterday night I decided to check it out and see what the problem is. With the streets empty it is plain to see for everybody what the problem is!
    From John; "It should be noted that there is no center turn (or “refuge”) lane at this location, as there is serving the businesses immediately east of it. "
    Let me repeat that; It should be noted that there is no center (left) turn lane , as there is serving the businesses immediately east of it.
    WOW, go out there and see for yourself the hypocrisy from people blaming CVS for the traffic problems. If the L-turn (refuge) were to be extended only a few yards there would be no problem! Why should Benedetti and all the other businesses benefit from a refuge lane and CVS not? To focus only on putting up a barrier to Barnes is like spreading Trumpian, self-serving disinformation.
    Not only does it create a dangerous situation from people wondering how to get to CVS, it's a mockery of what is in the best interest and safety of Sebastopol in the long run.

    Quote John Eder wrote: View Post
    ...
    Caltrans submitted a letter to the City of Sebastopol on September 20, 2012 that agreed with the need to place a restriction on left turns at this location.

    At present, no indicators (signs, pavement markings, etc.) have been installed on westbound Highway 12 that left turns into the project are not allowed. A “No Left Turn” sign and a “Right Turn Only” pavement marking have been installed on Barnes Avenue where it intersects Highway 12.

    It should be noted that there is no center turn (or “refuge”) lane at this location, as there is serving the businesses immediately east of it. Therefore, all left turn movements into/out of Barnes Avenue are from/into the westbound traffic lanes....
    Last edited by Barry; 02-28-2017 at 11:43 AM.
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  8. TopTop #66
    photolite's Avatar
    photolite
     

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    Hmmm. Interesting observation indeed.
    Quote Bob2 wrote: View Post
    ...
    Let me repeat that; It should be noted that there is no center (left) turn lane , as there is serving the businesses immediately east of it.
    WOW, go out there and see for yourself the hypocrisy from people blaming CVS for the traffic problems. If the L-turn (refuge) were to be extended only a few yards there would be no problem! Why should Benedetti and all the other businesses benefit from a refuge lane and CVS not?....
    Last edited by Barry; 02-28-2017 at 12:21 PM.
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  10. TopTop #67
    rekarp's Avatar
    rekarp
     

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    It's not that simple. The current center turn lane stops far enough back for about 16 cars to be in a 2nd lane and be ready to turn left on Main street at the following intersection. If the center turn lane was extended so that people could turn left into CVS, there would be room for about 8 cars. Maybe Caltrans, or whoever is responsible for this intersection, thinks there is a capacity issue for traffic moving through the intersection. I can imagine gridlock where the cars wanting to turn left on Main back up through the Petaluma Avenue intersection and block the single lane that allows cars to go straight through or right on Petaluma Avenue.

    Caltrans might have guidelines, but a traffic engineer could figure it out.
    Quote Bob2 wrote: View Post
    ...Let me repeat that; It should be noted that there is no center (left) turn lane , as there is serving the businesses immediately east of it.
    WOW, go out there and see for yourself the hypocrisy from people blaming CVS for the traffic problems. If the L-turn (refuge) were to be extended only a few yards there would be no problem! ...
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  12. TopTop #68

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    Rekarp, I have to refer you to my previous post, where I suggested to prohibit a right turn onto Petaluma.
    If you watch the traffic flow coming from 12, you'll see that the right turn onto Petaluma is what's causing most of the delays NOT the L turn!

    "My proposal would make the traffic flow better in all lanes.
    By not allowing a right turn onto Petaluma ave, and directing the traffic to McKinley before Petaluma Ave via Morris or Depot or Barlow, It takes traffic off of 12 and the CVS intersection.
    You end up with TWO lanes, the right lane would be for straight to Bodega traffic, the left lane would be for left turns into Barnes AND Main street."


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    Quote rekarp wrote: View Post
    It's not that simple. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 03-01-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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  13. TopTop #69
    rekarp's Avatar
    rekarp
     

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    Are you suggesting that traffic be routed through the Barlow?

    Quote Bob2 wrote: View Post
    ...
    By not allowing a right turn onto Petaluma ave, and directing the traffic to McKinley before Petaluma Ave via Morris or Depot or Barlow, It takes traffic off of 12 and the CVS intersection....
    Last edited by Barry; 03-02-2017 at 01:38 PM.
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  15. TopTop #70

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    Karp, Traffic for the Barlow through the Barlow, it was so wonderfully designed for that.....
    Traffic for Whole Foods/downtown could be diverted through Morris.
    Traffic for the Hotel/ Mimi could use Depot or maybe Brown
    This would take a lot of traffic of that intersection and make it safer too.
    What is your suggestion, Rekarp?

    Quote rekarp wrote: View Post
    Are you suggesting that traffic be routed through the Barlow?
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  17. TopTop #71
    rekarp's Avatar
    rekarp
     

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    So Barlow traffic can already use Morris. If Whole Foods and downtown traffic turns right on Morris, would they go through the Barlow, or go Laguna Park Way past the police station and take a right at Whole Foods?

    Quote Bob2 wrote: View Post
    ...Traffic for Whole Foods/downtown could be diverted through Morris....
    Last edited by Barry; 03-02-2017 at 01:39 PM.
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  19. TopTop #72

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    What is your suggestion rekarp?
    Quote rekarp wrote: View Post
    So Barlow traffic can already use Morris. If Whole Foods and downtown traffic turns right on Morris, would they go through the Barlow, or go Laguna Park Way past the police station and take a right at Whole Foods?
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  20. TopTop #73
    rekarp's Avatar
    rekarp
     

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    I'm just trying to figure out if your idea is better than what we have right now. I don't think it's a good idea to route non-Barlow traffic through the Barlow.

    Until the bridge is complete, it's hard to say exactly how bad the traffic problem will be.

    Quote Bob2 wrote: View Post
    What is your suggestion rekarp?
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  22. TopTop #74

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    If you look at a Google map, you'll see hat there is an actual street after Morris and before Depot. It has no name but is on the map. It looks like the Barlow has confiscated this public thoroughfare, maybe John can educate us on the history. This would be my ideal entrance to WF if it is public domain. I remember it as a wide back alley for trucks back in the days . It really is all in the sign posting and the Barlow should welcome traffic through there, it's good for business!
    Quote rekarp wrote: View Post
    I'm just trying to figure out if your idea is better than what we have right now. I don't think it's a good idea to route non-Barlow traffic through the Barlow.

    Until the bridge is complete, it's hard to say exactly how bad the traffic problem will be.
    Last edited by Barry; 03-05-2017 at 01:36 PM.
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  23. TopTop #75
    scamperwillow's Avatar
    scamperwillow
     

    Re: How CVS Conned Sebastopol

    I frequently turn right on Morris to go to Whole foods - misses all the town center congestion.

    Quote rekarp wrote: View Post
    So Barlow traffic can already use Morris. If Whole Foods and downtown traffic turns right on Morris, would they go through the Barlow, or go Laguna Park Way past the police station and take a right at Whole Foods?
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