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  1. TopTop #31
    sqb's Avatar
    sqb
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by bolacherries: View Post
    I don't think that well over 200 people are NIMBYS. As much as you don't seem to care yourself,.
    then what the hell are they? I doubt many even live near there. There has been more speculation of their own misguided interpretation of the reality of this issue and so much 'fake news' generated by inflation of the actual impact and fuzzy 'science' that proves nothing except these folks just like to complain about any CHANGE AT ALL.

    Just like the folks that are complaining about the new drug store on the corner. Or the stupid smart meters issues. Give me a break. Complaining just because they love to complain.


    Quote
    I would defer to one of Somoma County's authorized and published emergency channels: If KOWS gets added to these, that's great, but for now, here's what's listed:

    KZST 100.1 FM
    KSRO AM 1350
    KCBS AM 740
    KBBF 89.1 FM (Spanish)

    There is also KTVY - Channel 2
    NBC11 - Channnel 3
    KRON Channel 4
    KGO Channel 7
    Yes and it was clear in the KOWS mission and previous statements to the city that KOWS too would be on this list. It was in the plan. And as far as TV is concerned, the SF TV and radio stations in no way can cover the West county like locals can. They really don't have the resources or even care.

    TV isn't a valid medium at all for serious emergencies - reception in this area requires cable and that requires power. Both of which would cut out a lot of people. Many people don't even have a TV around here. 'the internet' is most vulnerable - without cable or power, there is no internet. Cell phones require a lot more energy than a cheap transistor radio anyone can get for practically nothing. And if you are in a car, it can be a lifesaver.

    Radio is the only medium to distribute information to people equally across all strata of society, but don't trust the Santa Rosa stations to meet the needs of West County - many are corporately run, programing beamed in via satellite, and in many cases there is no one but a transmitter operator . I thought you folks around here 'bought local'. You'd be horrified at who actually owns and runs the local commercial stations.

    Quote During an emergency National Weather Service interrupts programming for all types of weather hazards including earthquakes and man made disasters. NWR is an "all hazards radio network, making it the single source for the most comprehensive weather and emergency information."

    It is also my understanding that KOWS has continuously broadcast via radio from Occidental and via the internet which reaches anyone with a cell phone or computer.
    Really? You would trust the National Weather Service (most likely about to be trashed by incoming morons of the Trump administration) to give you data about your own neighborhood?

    The cell phone and internet 'solution' was already commented on and should not be considered relevant to this 'emergency' thread.

    And although the KOWS transmitter is still pitifully broadcasting from a tree in Occidental, the signal is useless in the city limits of Sebastopol, overwhelmed by a commercial station in the south bay and the background noise of all the computers and fluorescent lights around receivers. The KOWS offices, control room and all programming originate from downtown Sebastopol, in anticipation of a transmitter the citizens refuse to allow in their town. This should give you an indication of there dedication to their idea of a people's radio station.

    This is why they need a new transmitter location and frequency other than the Occidental assignment. The spectrum is filled with a lot of competition and although putting the KOWS rig on the city hall communications tower would be perfect, the FCC says it would interfere with another commercial station in Sacramento. Every request for a clear frequency is a painstaking, drawn out and expensive proposition.
    Everywhere they go, they're going to get a 'NOT IN MY BACK YARD' backlash.

    A pretty deplorable situation, I would say for a town that is reputed to be 'progressive'.


    Quote And as an aside, don't you think that if any entity branded themselves as being all about the local community, that they should mean it? Shouldn't they at least to pretend to care just a little about the 200+ local community families that didn't want a tower in their neighborhood? Particularly when there were other options that would bother absolutely no-one and give KOWS equal broadcast range? It works both ways.
    No anger or hate here. Just trying to keep it real. Thanks.
    Not real. Delusional.
    Very wrong and disingenuous... false equivalency. And the hate and blame is still there.
    My statements are true and I stand behind them. I'm not going away.
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  3. TopTop #32
    american dream's Avatar
    american dream
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    KOWS radio is an all-volunteer group of people who give their time, money, expertise and love to the project of providing excellent public (i.e. not bought,sold, or owned by anybody) radio to the community, including great music, interviews, public service announcements, and other educational programs. I am reminded here again of what Claire Booth Luce so famously said: 'No good deed goes unpunished'.
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  5. TopTop #33
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by sqb: View Post
    ... I doubt many even live near there. ... these folks just like to complain about any CHANGE AT ALL. ...
    hey, that's some nice passion expressed here. This debate's "entertaining" (kind of the wrong word, since it's about real things, I guess) but it sure looks like partisans on both sides happily wield whatever cudgel comes to hand. And make unwarranted overgeneralized accusations. Sure would have been simpler if KOWS admitted that they (or their contractor) screwed up. But that doesn't really have anything directly to do with the controversy over the dangerous or unsightly towers (as the opponents see them) vs. the benefits of community radio. I don't think that whacking away at each other over incidental details has a hell of a lot of effect in swaying general opinion. It's certainly not contributing to informed discussion, though.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-15-2017 at 11:00 AM.
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  7. TopTop #34
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by robert777: View Post
    ... the anti-antenna group pulled their Trump card. They threw high-rent lawyers at ....
    oh no, is this going to be a trend? we're losing classic cliches and turns of phrase at an ever-increasing rate!
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  9. TopTop #35
    franjoy's Avatar
    franjoy
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    First world problems!
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  11. TopTop #36
    sqb's Avatar
    sqb
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    Really? Calling community radio ELITIST?

    Hilarious attitude contrasted by it's arrogance.
    The uninformed are killing this country.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by franjoy: View Post
    First world problems!
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  13. TopTop #37
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    thanks for saying this.
    i have felt this so much this year--we begin to sound like marin county.

    the bernie stuff (oh no hillary!).
    then switch to hillary (oh no the donald!).
    the bike path, the hospital, noreen vs. linda.
    kows is so much smaller, seemingly obvious. can we assume people make mistakes & move on.
    KOWS might be the only chance we have at honest communication not surrounded by corporate lies (npr crushed me with sad political commentary & added little to the research & intelligent discourse, like the washington post, & the new york times who said "pay attention to the HUGE stuff". (people who fell into the crooked hillary, were as much pawns in the trump plan as anyone. (no one runs for president, except perhaps jimmy carter, who hasn't trader their soul a little bit. bernie on health care when he opposed the best one we have ever seen in our lifetime (hillary's plan). he had to oppose it, like "sensible" gun legislation, because he represents vermont, and vermont wasn't ready. so much more. as quasi enlightened adults, we have to have our eyes open).
    we need to come to the table with tremendous gratitude for food, shelter, & education-- few here don't have those basics met. we are ridiculously privileged to have these "lst world discussions ad infinitum'.
    we may disagree on what defines the most important issues [climate change, the health of the earth, w. our w. out earthlings, health care, & the integration of total health, including brain chemistry imbalance, (likely the primary cause of the class differentials in terms of incarceration, substance abuse, homelessness, ability to keep a job), the lack of justice in our criminal justice system, citizens united/corporate dominance as our world power, the oppressive regimes in our world--most of the issues addressed by amnesty international, avass, having healthy drinking water (waterbearers/dapl/fracking), torture for beings of the planet. some of these issues on the agenda in the US by SCLP (southern center on law in poverty) & sometimes the aclu].
    wished we could have had a civil discourse w. a "trump isn't so bad" person, so we could see what was so appealing, aside from white men loosing privilege.
    would love to have intelligent discussions here, & spend the rest of our time helping each other, our planet, doing good (& knowing how others see good, might be a bit different) but knowing we all want to work for good (i think we do).
    how refreshing to no longer "beat the dead horse" (a better way to say that is not coming to mind immediately--options please).
    everyday let's do good in the world for others in greater need, while taking care of our little corner of the planet.
    would love that to happen here.
    lots of river folks need help. have a friend in forestville & one in healdsburg, & haven't seen links for people to participate.
    thank you.
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  15. TopTop #38
    spam1's Avatar
    spam1
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    Loosing? (grammar national socialist, I admit).

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by podfish: View Post
    oh no, is this going to be a trend? we're losing classic cliches and turns of phrase at an ever-increasing rate!
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  16. TopTop #39
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by spam1: View Post
    Loosing? (grammar national socialist, I admit).
    it says 'losing' now.. did someone edit to fix it, or maybe its possible that your saying it backward?


    (edit: I went back and checked the confirmation email after I posted the original. This definitely can't be used as evidence that I'm loosing it generally... I had it right!)
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  17. TopTop #40
    bolacherries
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    Hola Podfish,
    Thank you for your statement about the discussion being about an unsightly tower versus the benefits of community radio. It goes to the very heart of the confusion and incorrect assumptions.

    Unknown truths: The 200 to 300 + people who signed a petition against the tower at Pleasant Hill Road did not sign a petition against KOWS – just against their choice of tower location. There were other options for the location of the tower and people didn’t realize that.

    The Pleasant Hill Road option was opposed because:
    1) That land happens to be immediately adjacent to a Sonoma County scenic view corridor and we believe strongly in the preservation of those view sheds – once the land is gone, its gone for us, its gone for future generations, its gone forever and it can’t be gotten back;
    2) Yes, it is in several people’s back yards. We care about individuals. We think individuals are important. We don’t believe that its right to ask individual families to sacrifice the enjoyment of the view from their homes and yes, the value of their homes. When the federal government infringes on people’s property its eminent domain and its paid for.
    3) The health risks of EMF’s are largely disputed in the scientific community. Other countries – even China and Russia -home of Chernobyl, are more stringent that we are about EMFs. A whole lot of people vehemently oppose PGE smart meters. How would those same people feel about a radio tower in their back yard and within a few feet of where they work and walk?

    The Sebastopol Hills Alliance for Rural Preservation (SHARP -location opposition group) offered several alternatives locations for KOWS’ antennae at considerable effort on the part of their communications technology expert. The last was at a fire station, which offered equal or better range and would have bothered no-one. Charts were presented which showed overlapping coverage of the two areas so that the benefits of that location were easily visible. That location was almost summarily dismissed and received no evaluation because KOWS’ expert was in Germany at the time. It was an excellent option, offered for free and was thrown out the window.

    To summarize, this discussion should never have been about the value of community radio versus the location of an unsightly tower. That would have been correct IF there had there been just one location option.
    The discussion should have been about the onus on a community radio station to search for a location in good faith that does not disrupt, anger and cause real or perceived health risk to the community that they live in. It should have been about community radio caring about the community that they live in more than caring about free rent and easy access.

    And, to someone else's very good point, if we’re talking about bigger things, how about the entire KOWS community caring about a neighborhood? Just an idea. We can care about all of our community without sacrificing the few. We can do good without hurting anyone.
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  19. TopTop #41
    robert777's Avatar
    robert777
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    Most people view bad losers negatively. Now, we’re dealing with bad winners. A post I included in this thread already mentioned this.The antenna issue at this site is DEAD, killed by BIG MONEY AND BIG LAWYERS. What part of that don’t you get? Who are you arguing with?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by bolacherries: View Post
    Hola Podfish,
    Thank you for your statement about the discussion being about an unsightly tower versus the benefits of community radio. It goes to the very heart of the confusion and incorrect assumptions.

    Unknown truths: ...
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  21. TopTop #42
    sqb's Avatar
    sqb
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by bolacherries: View Post

    3) The health risks of EMF’s are largely disputed in the scientific community. Other countries – even China and Russia -home of Chernobyl, are more stringent that we are about EMFs. A whole lot of people vehemently oppose PGE smart meters. How would those same people feel about a radio tower in their back yard and within a few feet of where they work and walk?
    Sorry, this is the bad science I've been talking about. A 35-watt transmitter at 35 feet in the air puts out less radiation than that cell phone in your pocket. It would have been even less at the original 65 feet

    Quote The Sebastopol Hills Alliance for Rural Preservation (SHARP -location opposition group) offered several alternatives locations for KOWS’ antennae at considerable effort on the part of their communications technology expert. The last was at a fire station, which offered equal or better range and would have bothered no-one. Charts were presented which showed overlapping coverage of the two areas so that the benefits of that location were easily visible. That location was almost summarily dismissed and received no evaluation because KOWS’ expert was in Germany at the time. It was an excellent option, offered for free and was thrown out the window.

    And, to someone else's very good point, if we’re talking about bigger things, how about the entire KOWS community caring about a neighborhood? Just an idea. We can care about all of our community without sacrificing the few. We can do good without hurting anyone.
    You may have had some charts but those 'other locations' were not researched for FCC approval or were already rejected in a field report as INTERFERING WITH OTHER STATIONS. Please stop using these red herrings, they just can't stick that transmitter just anywhere. You are showing your ignorance about the process. Do you think they love being stressed out by and arguing with the NIMBYs? If they could have used those locations, they would have. Stop using the 'irresponsibility card' with these folks.

    AND AGAIN, you are attributing, without any proof, that these folks have ill-will against the people. They would have just stayed in Occidental if they didn't care about joining this community.

    Sometimes I wonder why they bother, with so many luddites and so much ignorance.

    No, all of this is really about real estate values, so when the finally sell their land to a developer they can get top dollar. Millions are at stake here. Think about it.

    Talk about disingenuous and anti-community.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-17-2017 at 08:49 PM.
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  23. TopTop #43
    SebTownRaised's Avatar
    SebTownRaised
     

    Re: KOWS Antenna Tower Update: Illegal Trenching Destroys Mature Tree Roots

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by robert777: View Post
    Most people view bad losers negatively. Now, we’re dealing with bad winners. A post I included in this thread already mentioned this.The antenna issue at this site is DEAD, killed by BIG MONEY AND BIG LAWYERS. What part of that don’t you get? Who are you arguing with?
    Here's what killed the project:

    KOWS staff misleading the public on many key points,
    A KOWS broadcaster being arrested for assaulting a citizen at City Council meeting,
    The inability to compromise and find a Win-Win for everyone,
    No lease agreement with the city,
    No encroachment permit,
    No building permit,
    No insurance,
    No building department official present,
    No approved trench route by the building department
    Trespassing and destruction of City property

    That's what killed the project.

    ***

    Winners? NOBODY won. Nobody.

    I liked KOWS radio! I wanted to see it succeed!
    I wanted to see the antenna erected at a new location that everyone would approve of and like.

    But no. The project was mismanaged from beginning to end with the final actions putting a contractor's license at risk (the guy who trenched without a permit).

    But sure, learn nothing and blame everyone else - that seems to be the repeating theme of your posts.

    Continue to blame and yell while trying to convince the public that you "care about people".

    ****

    On a personal note:
    I used to like KOWS radio. I have 3 friends who are have been broadcasters on KOWS radio in the past.
    I was interview on that station (back in the day when it was operated out of Occidental) for a Sustainability program.
    And I'm saddened beyond belief to see this once-great community service and radio station managed the way it has been for the last year or more.

    We can only hope the rest of the KOWS supporters and financial contributors hold someone responsible for the laws that have been broken and the damage that has been done.

    ****

    If it takes a lawyer to defend the land, then so be it.
    Robert, I'm sure if you were ever arrested you would not refuse the lawyer assigned to your case.
    So don't blame lawyers for doing their jobs and helping people.
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