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  1. TopTop #211
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol - ADMISSION OF METERS SPYING FOR PROFIT

    Quote Jude Iam wrote: View Post
    OK, here we have the revelation from the horse's mouth: admission of the REAL reason for the hard, universal push for 'smart' (sic) meters. Wake up, America. ....
    In one fell swoop, every utility’s claim of “smart meters do not spy on you” is now dissolved.
    Their myth is now shattered. .... Watch Onzo’s rather jaw dropping 90-second marketing video:.
    that's a typically conspiratorial midset. First, there's no REAL REASON. There are lots of reasons. Sure, that's one of them, and without "Waking up, America" can disabuse itself of the myth. Oh yeah, shatter the myth. Whatever. Somehow my jaw didn't drop to learn that the modern connectivity can be used for data-collection.

    Personally, I'm kind of surprised at the level of legal restrictions that are imposed (I didn't say followed) on data collection of individuals. And if my jaw drops, it's that largely these companies seem reasonably willing to do some anonymizing since they are quite interested in the aggregate. This to me seems a sign that it's still an immature technology. There are too many advantages for "them" to know everything. You'll see it as a crime- or terrorist-prevention tool; if something shocking (in the real sense of shock) happens, it'll be more than just Trump voters who will support enabling of the surveillance capabilities that are already there. I think it was Brin who wrote that fighting for privacy gives tools to the privileged but won't really protect the rest of us.

    So bottom line, this seems a weird hill to plant your flag. Your phone knows so much more about you 'cuz you probably keep it with you a lot, and if anyone cares to do it they can use it as a microphone without you knowing. Fortunately we're a few years away from cheap & easy data processing on that level - despite the fears of several others on this board.

    as you can tell, it's not the overarching thesis I disagree with, it's the pearl-clutching over something really minor in both health hazard and risk to liberty.
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  3. TopTop #212
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Yes, Sieglinde, First Amendment; that one - and a few others. Protecting our diminishing CIVIL LIBERTIES is hardly "stupid", is it? Jude

    Constitutional rights

    The right to privacy often means the right to personal autonomy, or the right to choose whether or not to engage in certain acts or have certain experiences. Several amendments to the U.S. Constitution have been used in varying degrees of success in determining a right to personal autonomy:

    • The First Amendment protects the privacy of beliefs
    • The Third Amendment protects the privacy of the home against the use of it for housing soldiers
    • The Fourth Amendment protects privacy against unreasonable searches
    • The Fifth Amendment protects against self-incrimination, which in turn protects the privacy of personal information
    • The Ninth Amendment says that the "enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights retained by the people." This has been interpreted as justification for broadly reading the Bill of Rights to protect privacy in ways not specifically provided in the first eight amendments.
    The right to privacy is most often cited in the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment, which states:
    No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    However, the protections have been narrowly defined and usually only pertain to family, marriage, motherhood, procreation and child rearing.
    For example, the Supreme Court first recognized that the various Bill of Rights guarantees creates a "zone of privacy" in Griswold v. Connecticut, a 1965 ruling that upheld marital privacy and struck down bans on contraception.
    The court ruled in 1969 that the right to privacy protected a person's right to possess and view pornography in his own home. Justice Thurgood Marshall wrote in Stanley v. Georgia that, " If the First Amendment means anything, it means that a State has no business telling a man, sitting alone in his own house, what books he may read or what films he may watch."
    The controversial case Roe v. Wade in 1972 firmly established the right to privacy as fundamental, and required that any governmental infringement of that right to be justified by a compelling state interest. In Roe, the court ruled that the state's compelling interest in preventing abortion and protecting the life of the mother outweighs a mother's personal autonomy only after viability. Before viability, the mother's right to privacy limits state interference due to the lack of a compelling state interest.
    In 2003, the court, in Lawrence v. Texas, overturned an earlier ruling and found that Texas had violated the rights of two gay men when it enforced a law prohibiting sodomy. [Countdown: 10 Milestones in Gay Rights History]
    Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote, "The petitioners are entitled to respect for their private lives. The State cannot demean their existence or control their destiny by making their private sexual conduct a crime. Their right to liberty under the Due Process Clause gives them the full right to engage in their conduct without intervention of the government."
    Access to personal information

    A person has the right to determine what sort of information about them is collected and how that information is used. In the marketplace, the FTC enforces this right through laws intended to prevent deceptive practices and unfair competition.
    The Privacy Act of 1974 prevents unauthorized disclosure of personal information held by the federal government. A person has the right to review their own personal information, ask for corrections and be informed of any disclosures.
    The Financial Monetization Act of 1999 requires financial institutions to provide customers with a privacy policy that explains what kind of information is being collected and how it is being used. Financial institutions are also required to have safeguards that protect the information they collect from customers.
    The Fair Credit Reporting Act protects personal financial information collected by credit reporting agencies. The act puts limits on who can access such information and requires agencies to have simple processes by which consumers can get their information, review it and make corrections.
    Online privacy

    Internet users can protect their privacy by taking actions that prevent the collection of information. Most people who use the Internet are familiar with tracking cookies. These small stores of data keep a log of your online activities and reports back to the tracker host. The information is usually for marketing purposes. To many Internet users, this is an invasion of privacy. But there are several ways to avoid tracking cookies.
    Browsers and social media platforms, such as Facebook and Twitter, allow users to choose levels of privacy settings, from share everything to only share with friends to share only the minimum, such as your name, gender and profile picture. Protecting personally identifiable information is important for preventing identity theft.
    The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA) enforces a parent's right to control what information websites collect about their children. Websites that target children younger than 13 or knowingly collect information from children must post privacy policies, get parental consent before collecting information from children, allow parents to decide how such information is used and provide an opt-out option for future collection of a child's information.
    Right of publicity

    Just as a person has the right to keep personal information private, he or she also has the right to control the use of his or her identity for commercial promotion. Unauthorized use of one's name or likeness is recognized as an invasion of privacy.
    There are four types of invasion of privacy: intrusion, appropriation of name or likeness, unreasonable publicity and false light. If a company uses a person's photo in an ad claiming that the person endorses a certain product, the person could file a lawsuit claiming misappropriation.
    Movable boundaries

    The Supreme Court approaches the right to privacy and personal autonomy on a case-by-case basis. As public opinion changes regarding relationships and activities, and the boundaries of personal privacy change, largely due to social media and an atmosphere of "sharing," the definition of the right to privacy is ever-changing.
    Related:

    Further reading:



    Quote Sieglinde wrote: View Post
    Reminds me of the old "America Love it or Leave it Slogan" I can live anywhere I want to and I assume that the First Admendment still applies. I see stupid, I call it out.
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  5. TopTop #213
    Sasu's Avatar
    Sasu
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    The CPUC will hold a voting meeting in Santa Rosa on Thursday April 6 at 9:30 am. This is a rare event, as these meetings are usually held in San Francisco. Sign up for public comments start at 9am till 9:30am. If you arrive after 9:30, you wait till all speakers finish and the President asks is there anyone else. Speakers likely get one minute.

    If you are getting higher bills because of PG&E’s bi-monthly estimated reading this is a chance to speak directly to the CPUC about it. See this http://emfsafetynetwork.org/are-pges...ting-you-more/
    Or talk about banning smart meters and why.

    Thursday April 6 at 9:30 am
    Santa Rosa City Hall Council Chambers
    100 Santa Rosa Ave., Santa Rosa
    More details: http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDoc.../182863586.PDF
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  7. TopTop #214
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: Speaking of PG&E Scam...Analogue Meter Users Heads-Up

    From this week's Sonoma West Times and News:



    PG&E SmartMeters installation on back burner

    By Bleys Rose, Sonoma West editor, [email protected] Apr 19, 2017

    PG&E appears to be in no rush to reignite the SmartMeter debate, despite having informed Sebastopol city officials they’d begin installing them in early 2017.

    For nearly two years, the gas and electric company has essentially halted concerted efforts to gain widespread consumer acceptance of the self-reading utility meters in Sebastopol after meeting with objections from some residents and encountering a legally dubious ban approved by the city council.

    On Monday, April 17, the general counsel of the California Public Utilities Commission weighed into the fray with a legal opinion that said the state legislature had granted the power company the right to install meters and that no city or county government could usurp that regulatory authority. Referring to Sebastopol’s ban, called Ordinance 1057, the letter to city council members noted the City of Fairfax had previously unsuccessfully challenged PUC infrastructure programs.

    “It is our opinion, therefore, that the (Sebastopol) ordinance is unlawful and unenforceable,” said the letter from Arocles Aguilar, PUC general counsel.

    Last month, alarmed that the PG&E suspension of installations was about to be lifted, the city council fired off a letter to company officials that called for more discussion on the issue.

    “With the opposition to SmartMeters in Sebastopol, the city is concerned that any efforts to install SmartMeters in Sebastopol may cause public disturbances which will require involvement from our police department,” said a letter signed by Mayor Una Glass on March 21. “This would not be good media attention for PG&E.”

    PG&E officials wrote back saying “we appreciate the continuing dialogue we are having ...” and added “… we will respond to your request in the near future.”

    PG&E spokesperson Deanna Contreras characterized the company’s stance as agreeing to more discussion and as starting a very slow process of contacting customers.

    “As we are doing routine maintenance and installation work, we are finding customers who want them,” she said. “It is a two-year process and we are doing just a few customers at a time. We are taking it slow because we want to ensure customers are well informed.”

    She said PG&E on April 3 sent about 10 letters to residential customers who live outside Sebastopol city limits. Those letters informed customers that they could opt out of a SmartMeter with a one-time $75 fee and by paying a monthly $10 charge that would expire after 36 months.

    Contreras said there are about 5,350 PG&E customer meters in Sebastopol.

    Sebastopol city manager Larry McLaughlin said city offices have received hardly any inquiries about SmartMeter installations in recent months.

    “Right now, if somebody called, I would tell them that PG&E has announced they will start installing meters on a routine basis when they are performing service calls at a residence, but that they would first receive consumer information and be given the opportunity to opt out,” McLaughlin said. “I have not heard of anybody getting approached who would be resistant to the idea of a meter, but then I haven’t of anybody being approached who didn’t want one either.”
    Last edited by Barry; 04-21-2017 at 12:23 PM.
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  9. TopTop #215
    JimmyL's Avatar
    JimmyL
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    After reading Bley Roses article in the Sebastopol Times, I wonder how many smart meters are installed in Sebastopol already.
    I've walked around the Barlow, looks like all the businesses there have them.
    I had one installed at my home 5 years ago.
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  11. TopTop #216
    Sieglinde's Avatar
    Sieglinde
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Interesting question. I may stroll my neighborhood and see. We have 25 units. I know of two with Smart Meters.
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  12. TopTop #217
    diaba
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Thought I recalled Barry wanting some proof of smartmeters effects on symptoms. Here's a video that can shed some light on the subject.
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  14. TopTop #218
    barfly's Avatar
    barfly
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Thanks for posting this! It's gonna be fun...

    Rather than debunk the entire video in one go, I'll throw out the first volley.

    Why is it that the trace of the EKG being recorded during the "event" looks nothing at all like the static image in the later narrative?

    Quote diaba wrote: View Post
    Thought I recalled Barry wanting some proof of smartmeters effects on symptoms. Here's a video that can shed some light on the subject.
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  16. TopTop #219
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Quote barfly wrote: View Post
    ...Why is it that the trace of the EKG being recorded during the "event" looks nothing at all like the static image in the later narrative?
    Also those long wires may be good antennas, reacting to the change in power drawn through the meter. I make no claim that this is true, but I do claim that his test procedures are flawed and amateurish. This is why research gets peer-reviewed and replicated. Even when that's poorly done, it's still an improvement over these guy's single-blind test.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-19-2017 at 09:44 AM.
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  18. TopTop #220
    spam1's Avatar
    spam1
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Quote barfly wrote: View Post
    ...Why is it that the trace of the EKG being recorded during the "event" looks nothing at all like the static image in the later narrative?
    It is entirely possible that the EKG trace is as it is presented. BUT: an EKG is measuring very small electric currents in the body, and then you run feet of long cables back to the recorder? I would guess the most likely explanation is the EKG sensor or wires connecting it to the EKG recorder are very sensitive to electric fields and thus likely are picking up some change due the cycling smart meter.

    Gauss' law tells us that whenever you make a change in an electric circuit, turning it on or off, you will create a large EMF. Notice that you will always see a spark at the plug if you unplug an active device. In fact, the faster you unplug it the bigger the spark. So, where is the control where they have a crash dummy on the bed, and repeat the experiment. A DC electric motor with a commutator creates tremendous EMF in such a way, which is why we like AC motors. Marconi's original radio operated on this principle.

    When I see this repeated at a UC health or engineering lab, with proper controls, then I'll find it a lot more credulous.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-19-2017 at 09:45 AM.
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  20. TopTop #221
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Can anyone point to similar testing done by the smart meter industry? Why are citizens having to do this?

    The next two links will show that the concern for consumer safety is widespread

    http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/9th-gr...nal-attention/

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?sns=fb&v=uVosw_v-odw
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  22. TopTop #222
    barfly's Avatar
    barfly
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Quote arthunter wrote: View Post
    Why are citizens having to do this?
    Great question. It's because only lay people with an agenda conduct junk science.

    Regarding the kid's plant experiment, I have a high power wifi access point in the window of my bedroom to provide connectivity for the treehouse. It's set for 1W output and transmits 24/7. It has various plants around it with (surprise, surprise) no ill effects. Considering the incidence of home wifi routers, and the widespread use of houseplants, don't you think any detrimental effect would already be commonly observed and reported?
    Last edited by Barry; 05-21-2017 at 12:40 PM.
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  24. TopTop #223
    Sasu's Avatar
    Sasu
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    The man who made this EKG video has spent the past 4 years and many hundreds, likely thousands of volunteer hours challenging the Arizona Utility and regulators to be accountable for the smart meters they have forced AZ customers to pay for. He understands in depth the problems with smart meters, including the harm they can cause. Not one naysayer on this thread knows anything even remotely close about the issue of smart meters like he does.
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  26. TopTop #224
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Quote Sasu wrote: View Post
    ... He understands in depth the problems with smart meters, including the harm they can cause. Not one naysayer on this thread knows anything even remotely close about the issue of smart meters like he does.
    you have no way to know whether that's true or not. There are people who spend their lives hunting for sasquatch, too, and they know a lot more than I do about the hunt for sasquatch. I think that they actually know less about sasquatch himself, since they believe it exists and I don't. Their 'knowledge' is essentially junk science - which your amateur expert (oxymoron intended) is being accused of presenting.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-21-2017 at 12:42 PM.
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  28. TopTop #225
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Quote arthunter wrote: View Post
    Can anyone point to similar testing done by the smart meter industry? Why are citizens having to do this?...
    you've answered your own question. People are concerned for their safety. That can be a survival characteristic but it also opens the door for misinformation and fearmongering. It's demonstrably true that corporations frequently act in ways that are in their own interest at the expense of the general population. But there's no direct connection from that fact to the one in question.

    Bad guys aren't always out to get you. There's a psychological term for that feeling. If anyone made a compelling case against smart meters you'd find more credible researchers agreeing. 'course if you distrust anyone who doesn't support the accusation, thinking of them as tools for the industry, you are indulging in emotional reaction rather than reason. If there's a specific case of a specific researcher faking results, that's one thing - but the blanket condemnation I see is not a demonstration critical thinking.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-21-2017 at 12:43 PM.
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  30. TopTop #226
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    you've answered your own question. ...
    Pretty words but I don't buy the idea that inquiring about industry testing to soothe concerns about this hotly debated subject suggests some kind of psychological dysfunction. Really?
    Last edited by Barry; 05-21-2017 at 12:43 PM.
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  31. TopTop #227
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Quote arthunter wrote: View Post
    Pretty words but I don't buy the idea that inquiring about industry testing to soothe concerns about this hotly debated subject suggests some kind of psychological dysfunction. Really?
    l
    sorry, I don't mean to imply there was anything wrong with that question. It's the second part - why is it left to citizens to do this? and not even all of them fit my characterization. As Trump said, some of them, I assume, are good people. But I don't see much legitimate debate over the science. Instead, I see a lot of anti-EMF folks being dismissive of who seem to me to be professional scientists, because of their complicity with some imagined plot. Instead, many seem to prefer amateurish tests or anecdotal evidence that feed their fears. So as to your question, many of the 'citizens' believe this because it fits a paranoid world view. Of course there's real debate, too, but it's not considered particularly compelling in absence of well-founded, well-documented evidence that EMF is harmful.
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  33. TopTop #228
    Sieglinde's Avatar
    Sieglinde
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    What are his scientific credentials?

    Quote Sasu wrote: View Post
    The man who made this EKG video has spent the past 4 years ...
    Last edited by Barry; 05-21-2017 at 12:45 PM.
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  35. TopTop #229
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    So there's nothing on this thread but paranoid delusion? Does that diagnosis include the country of France?
    https://ehtrust.org/france-new-natio...ursery-school/
    And what about all of this? Just more junk science?
    proceedings_(15)_sage_2.pdf
    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    sorry, I don't mean to imply there was anything wrong with that question. ...
    r
    Last edited by Barry; 05-21-2017 at 12:45 PM.
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  37. TopTop #230
    Sieglinde's Avatar
    Sieglinde
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    It would take more research than I am willing to do at this time but I would love to know what the French were basing this on.

    Quote arthunter wrote: View Post
    So there's nothing on this thread but paranoid delusion? Does that diagnosis include the country of France?
    https://ehtrust.org/france-new-natio...ursery-school/
    ...
    Last edited by Barry; 05-21-2017 at 12:46 PM.
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  39. TopTop #231
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Quote arthunter wrote: View Post
    So there's nothing on this thread but paranoid delusion? Does that diagnosis include the country of France?...
    that's a willful misreading, and exemplifies the type of thinking that actually inhibits any efforts to set reasonable policy. Only a few things are all-or-nothing, and my post wasn't. I even quoted our president to help make that clear.

    Anyone indulging in advocacy should keep in mind that mixing questionable information indiscriminately with more credible ones calls into question their judgment. Sasu's posts have often been to sources that are intriguing. Even the one from EHTrust is interesting, though claiming that a government's passing laws about an issue is obviously (or should be obviously) not any real evidence on its own. How 'bout marijuana as a Schedule A drug?? Its deadly nature is well established by the decades of laws prohibiting its use.

    Despite that many articles on HuffPo seem interesting to me, I shy away from it the same way I wish people with conservative bents would shy away from Fox. You don't learn much from people you agree with - and it's too easy to see only the parts that reinforce your pre-existing opinions. In many of this type of issue, whether it's flouridation, smartmeters, or chemtrails, you see that the people raising the alarm almost never look for anything that refutes their point of view, while those making the opposite side of the argument at least make the pro-forma declaration that their views are subject to change given enough compelling evidence. In real science, the people producing a claim usually have already attacked it themselves to ensure that their ideas will hold up when exposed to a wider audience.
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  41. TopTop #232
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    What concerns me most is that we keep the discussion open regarding these issues which are clearly the subject of international debate. That is not accomplished by suggesting that those opinions that differ from our own are paranoid. This kind of discrediting is in wide use in our world and it is counter productive in my opinion.
    Quote podfisha wrote: View Post
    that's a willful misreading, and exemplifies the type of thinking that actually inhibits any efforts to set reasonable policy. ...
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  43. TopTop #233
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    This site contains a great deal of information and might explain why France and other countries are concerned about this technology.
    http://www.bioinitiative.org/
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  45. TopTop #234
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Quote arthunter wrote: View Post
    What concerns me most is that we keep the discussion open regarding these issues which are clearly the subject of international debate. That is not accomplished by suggesting that those opinions that differ from our own are paranoid. This kind of discrediting is in wide use in our world and it is counter productive in my opinion.
    to keep beating that dead horse: no-one on this thread has claimed that anyone who expresses concern about smartmeters is paranoid. I've claimed that some of the people providing 'evidence' of their harm seem to be demonstrating paranoid thinking. I keep referring to Sasu, because she clearly takes this seriously - more than most advocates of restricting smartmeters. That seems to be to be atypical of many posters on this subject and others that are related (on Wacco but even more on other sites).

    But you shouldn't keep seeing everything as black & white, criticism of one faction as if it were applied to all. That's actually one of the points I try, however clumsily, to get across: the quality of the citations varies wildly; many seem to be uninterested in challenges to their point of view (which is different than finding evidence being presented as unconvincing), and as your post is showing, aren't interested in seeing what to me aren't particularly subtle distinctions being made. Not all advocates are paranoids, and not all skeptics are corporate-owned sheeple.
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  47. TopTop #235
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    I do understand Podfish but in my opinion all of the posters on this thread deserve respect. If you wish to challenge their posts then please do so by publishing scientific information which backs up your point of view. This is a collaborative community effort to come to conclusions about this technology.
    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    to keep beating that dead horse: ...
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  49. TopTop #236
    Milgram Experiment's Avatar
    Milgram Experiment
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Hello list, my name is Paul Harding and the person responsible for the test.

    I have been monitoring health issues and man made EMF for the last 6 years. This started after a smart meter was placed on my bedroom wall right behind my head. Fortunately I was at home and put two and two together after the second night of waking up around 3am (smart grid data dump). I purchased thousands of dollars worth of equipment and with a little help from an Aerospace Engineer (my brother), started on my quest to fully understand what myself and so many others were experiencing. Literally it almost killed me.

    Point 1.
    The camera man was not quite there (very frustrating)

    Point 2 We did this filming on Mother's Day for a deadline three days later. Coordinated a doctor, homeowner, and video guy last minute. Lots of mistakes!

    Point 3 The heart did not react 100 percent of the time to the smart meter transmissions.

    Point 4 We also used a GSR (galvanic skin response) to correlate stress. This responded for seconds every time even though the bursts of energy were much quicker.

    Point 5 This isn't the first science ever published. It is the first time a smart meter was involved.

    Point 6 This test was ran quite a few times before we scheduled everyone to show up on Mothers Day for a video shoot.

    Point 7 I have no doubt this test is accurate as so many are experiencing heart palpitations after a smart meter installation.
    Quote barfly wrote: View Post
    Thanks for posting this! It's gonna be fun...

    Rather than debunk the entire video in one go, I'll throw out the first volley.

    Why is it that the trace of the EKG being recorded during the "event" looks nothing at all like the static image in the later narrative?
    Last edited by Barry; 05-22-2017 at 11:33 AM.
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  51. TopTop #237
    Sasu's Avatar
    Sasu
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    I have been an intervenor on smart meters at the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) since 2010. I have written and filed 2 dozen + legal documents http://emfsafetynetwork.org/emf-safe...rk-legal-work/ and have been financially compensated for my work, attorney and expert costs by the CPUC. I caught the head of PG&E's smart meter program falsifying his identity to get into our organizing list that I maintained for six years for EMF activists throughout California, the US, Canada, UK and Australia. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/sc...h/10meter.html I am committed to the issue of EMF harm because I have been injured by EMFs and I believe the science is strong enough to warrant community precautions.

    The "junk science" and paranoid theory perpetrated here is another false truth, that is promoted by industry and government who have money to be made and addictive technology to sell. Here's a great recent example: The California Department of Public Health (CDPH) created a cell phone advisory in 2009. They revised it 27 times and never published it till Joel M. Moskowitz, Ph.D., Director School of Public Health at UC Berkeley sued CDPH and they released the advisory: http://bit.ly/CDPHsafer

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    ...I keep referring to Sasu, because she clearly takes this seriously - more than most advocates of restricting smartmeters. ...
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  53. TopTop #238
    Milgram Experiment's Avatar
    Milgram Experiment
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    Actually, I often see 33.3 kilo Hertz present, riding on the 60 Hertz waveform, when people are paranoid. All it takes is shorting it from the voltage field radiating from the wiring in the ceiling, walls, and sometimes floor. So yes I do meet lots of paranoid people at first.

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    ...Not all advocates are paranoids, and not all skeptics are corporate-owned sheeple.
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  54. TopTop #239
    barfly's Avatar
    barfly
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    @spam1: YES!

    This video wants you to believe that the noise source that is picked up by the little field strength meter is affecting the man's heart, which in turn is shown on the ECG.

    TLDR: That is *not* what's happening, the noise source is clearly direct coupling to the ECG instrument. The presence of the smart meter appears to have no effect on his heart at all. This video is nothing more than yet another propaganda piece intended to elicit emotional response from non-technical people.

    Long version:
    The ECG is measuring extremely small electric potential changes across the surface of the body. These are in the range of 1-2mV. Voltages of this magnitude are actually pretty difficult to measure. The most common instrument for graphically showing voltage vs time is an oscilloscope. Most oscilloscopes are not capable (in a practical sense) of measuring signals this tiny. That's approaching the lowest levels I can see with my $12,000 Agilent 'scope, but that still requires careful technique to isolate the desired signal from noise sources.

    What this explains is that ECG are *very* susceptible to EMI (electromagnetic interference). For reference, refer to: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1.../clc.20459/pdf

    "Electrocardiograms (ECGs) are recorded in many health care settings and often represent the first-line of testing undertaken by ECG technicians, nurses, physicians, and personnel under training to establish a diagnosis. Although ECG recordings are frequently done, the quality of recording is essential for proper interpretation. Artifact due to EMI on ECG recordings may lead to interpretation mistakes, unnecessary medical treatment, and potentially dramatic medical errors."

    It's difficult to provide a detailed analysis of errors in the demonstration (I can't use the word "experiment" in good conscience) because few details of testing method are provided. As noted in my prior post, the ECG data shown being collected does not even match that used later in the narrative.

    The ECG plot shown being collected concurrent with the field strength meter reading clearly shows a noise pulse. The large negative going deflection is far outside the 1-2mV signals generated by the heart muscle.

    What is the noise source? Again, lacking details of the demonstration, I can only guess. If the data collection shown in the video covered a longer period of time to show repetitive bursts of wifi transmission and related ECG instrument response, it would be more clear. It is quite possible that the one time event shown was while energizing the smart meter. Smart meters contain a small switching power supply, similar to the little wall warts that power home electronics. These power supplies have a bulk storage capacitor which when first energized cause a very brief but large current surge while it charges. This current surge will cause an EMI spike. Connecting the switch or plug which energizes the meter will also produce an arc which radiates EMI (think spark gap transmitter).

    Anecdotally, it has happened so many times in our lab that anomalous readings are caused by someone inadvertently leaving a smartphone on a bench or in their pocket, that it has become quite funny. Yeah, engineers have a 'different' sense of humor. You might be more surprised to know that the noise source is not the phone transmitting, but more often radiating when the display is energized.

    I hope this is clear. Any questions, feel free to ask!

    Quote spam1 wrote: View Post
    ...I would guess the most likely explanation is the EKG sensor or wires connecting it to the EKG recorder are very sensitive to electric fields and thus likely are picking up some change due the cycling smart meter...where is the control where they have a crash dummy on the bed, and repeat the experiment.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-22-2017 at 11:34 AM.
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  56. TopTop #240
    barfly's Avatar
    barfly
     

    Re: Enforce the Smart Meter Ban in Sebastopol

    If you stand by your demonstration, then provide all detail of your test methods and collected data so it is available for public scrutiny.

    Without further info, this demonstration has no credibility and gives the appearance of being concocted as nothing more than a parlor trick to further your cause.

    Quote Milgram Experiment wrote: View Post
    Hello list, my name is Paul Harding and the person responsible for the test.
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