Bondage Discipline Domination Submission Sado Masochism

[Valley Oak]

BDSM: Bondage Discipline Domination Submission Sado Masochism

The initials D and S represent two words each.

[Thad]

For those wishing a more adult version and venue may find interest in this as it employs many of the safeguards and journeys into unexplored areas.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Psychodrama#/Organizations

[Sandy2y]

I find SM extremely dangerous, especially for women. It’s a political issue and it’s either allowed or not. You allow it. If I were running the board I’d censor it. As a radical Lesbian Feminist I cannot in good conscience be a part of any of it. I’ve been anti-SM since the 1970s. I’ve read and heard so much about it. I know there are women who think they have to work thru childhood sexual abuse by doing BDSM or some form of it. Agreeing to hurt or be hurt, even with a safe word is not my idea of how to deal with anything. There are safe female groups to deal with this kind of terror.

As for those who have not had the abuse and get off on pain…there’s something very wrong with that. It’s one step closer to the humiliation and denigration of pornography, which I am also against because it exists for rendering less than human women and children. if it were men humiliated, it would not be lucrative or popular.

I suggest you read a book called “Against Sadomasochism: A Radical Feminist Analysis,” Robin Ruth Linden (Editor) 1982. It’s a brilliant anthology.

[Thad]

You obviously didn't read any more than the first post on this thread, go ahead and continue with your original direction after viewing that first post.

People looking to exploit issues for righteous indignation is getting so old.

You might want to do some searching on Laci Green. She posts quite supportive things for your kind and was one of the commentators.

I find SM extremely dangerous, especially for women. It’s a political issue and it’s either allowed or not. You allow it. If I were running the board I’d censor it. As a radical Lesbian Feminist I cannot in good conscience be a part of any of it. ...

[Shandi]

I think the most dangerous practice starts with infants who grow up under the domination of religious fanatics who impose mental, physical, and emotional abuse on those who are vulnerable, with no way of escape. The "insult upon injury" is that this is condoned and encouraged by many religious sects.

Pain becomes associated with love or caring, especially when the abused is rewarded in some way. This reward may be as simple as a bit of food. Many children who live under this form of sanctioned torture become dis-associated or multiple personalities, which paves the way for extreme behaviors.

Both males and females exhibit an attraction to being hurt and humiliated through domination and control, although females may be more susceptible in a patriarchal culture.

These represent my personal thoughts, along with a tiny bit of experience in this realm, as an abused child and an adult who met people who were involved in the BDSM communities. I was invited, but it had no appeal. After escaping childhood abuse at 12, I had no desire to live with it as an adult. Fortunately for me, I didn't experience the common personality fractures that so often follow.

I try to refrain from judging mutually agreed upon behavior, although at times I do, especially when harm is inflicted on the vulnerable, where consent may be only a tool for survival.

I find SM extremely dangerous, especially for women. ...

[theindependenteye]

>>>I find SM extremely dangerous, especially for women. It’s a political issue and it’s either allowed or not. You allow it. If I were running the board I’d censor it. As a radical Lesbian Feminist I cannot in good conscience be a part of any of it. I’ve been anti-SM since the 1970s. I’ve read and heard so much about it. I know there are women who think they have to work thru childhood sexual abuse by doing BDSM or some form of it. Agreeing to hurt or be hurt, even with a safe word is not my idea of how to deal with anything. There are safe female groups to deal with this kind of terror. As for those who have not had the abuse and get off on pain…there’s something very wrong with that. It’s one step closer to the humiliation and denigration of pornography, which I am also against because it exists for rendering less than human women and children. if it were men humiliated, it would not be lucrative or popular.

I’ve never been a practitioner of any of the varieties of BDSM, but I have a number of friends who are. I won’t reiterate what you’ve likely read & rejected from pro-BDSM websites, as I wouldn’t be speaking from experience. But for what it’s worth…

I have no doubt that there are demeaning, dangerous, and humiliating relationships among practitioners of BDSM. I also have no doubt that there are similar abusive relationships within heterosexual couples, homosexual couples, and, I would venture, even among Radical Lesbian Feminists. (In my experience, at least, there are a number of people attracted to any otherwise-admirable utopian ideology who are desperately needful and consequently subvert that ideology.)

This, to me, is a universal, and the same objection could be made to virtually any form of sexual practice: some people get hurt, exploited, damaged. One could make exactly the same argument against abortion: a pregnant woman might be forced to abort against her will. Or against contraception: a girl might be coerced into intercourse on the grounds that “it’s safe.” One might equally argue against the legalization of marijuana, beer, or cough syrup on the grounds that people may abuse it. How far do you want to go with this kind of reasoning?

I have Pagan friends who mock Christians for “celebrating death” and cannibalizing a body in communion. They tend to be refugees from fundamentalist upbringings, but it’s not remotely connected to the inner life of many/most practicing Christians (I’m not one, but I know many.). I feel that your generalization is of the same order, combining (a) awareness of some true cases, most likely, of people who have been exploited and damaged, (b) an ideological corollary, and (c) a personal ICK! Factor. To me, that doesn’t support the generalization you make.

I’m not a proselytizer for any specific sex practice or lifestyle, other than the one I think, in the abstract, both of us share: don’t mess people up, be kind, etc. etc. But we’re an enormously diverse species, and I’m dubious about broad claims that “there’s something very wrong with that.” Are you ready to claim that women should have no self-determination because there are some—and I surely agree that there are some—who would let themselves be abused? That they require the same degree of protection that we give to minors? Well, that could be, but it’s a double-edged blade.

One last point: You say “if it were men humiliated” (in BDSM? in pornography? I’m not sure which you mean) But I’ve known as many men as women involved as “bottoms.” Is it okay for a man to be flogged but not a woman? Some women would disagree rather vehemently, and the ones I know are not sick or weak individuals.

It’s an issue with strong feelings on all sides. I certainly respect you for coming forward with your thoughts.

-Conrad

[Valley Oak]

Bondage Discipline Domination Submission Sado Masochism

BDSM is a variety of often erotic practices or roleplaying involving bondage, discipline, dominance and submission, sadomasochism, and other interpersonal dynamics. Given the wide range of practices, some of which may be engaged in by people who do not consider themselves as practicing BDSM, inclusion in the BDSM community or subculture is usually dependent on self-identification and shared experience...

[Shandi]

Thanks for expanding knowledge on this topic, that may rarely enter our consciousness, and if it does, we may immediately react with disgust, judgement and condemnation.

What we all tend to forget is that there may be extreme sexual variation, (besides the "missionary" position) even among our friends, family, neighbors, professional providers (banker, realtor, attorney, priest/minister. etc). I was once invited to a bank manager's party, and was shocked at what was happening. He would have lost his job if I'd reported it. He only knew me as a bank customer, so he was pretty trusting to even invite me.

Consider how well you know the sexual practices of anyone, unless you're involved in a group sex community. But even then, you may not see BDSM, since this would be reserved for places where this is acceptable behavior.

Many years ago, I had occasion to accompany a cross dresser (a person I had counseled about his wardrobe and make up) to a venue in SF called The POWER EXCHANGE. Talk about "eyes open wide"...... I'd never experienced anything in my life like this. I had only seen one Dominatrix who'd been hired by a man to hurt and humiliate him. I didn't even know this about her, until she brought her "date" to my house, where she proceeded to perform her well paid service. She invited me to watch, but I declined. This is not my style of loving sex. I cut off all communication with her. This showed me that you can't know anyone from an initial contact. And she was a"RADICAL LESBIAN FEMINIST".

I've had lesbian couples as roommates, and witnessed abuse that I didn't realize existed between women who claim to love each other. It shattered my naive stereotype notions of people, and gave my consciousness a peek into the complexity of humanity.

I have friends who are gay, transgender, CD, hetero, bi-sexual, and many who don't label themselves, but may experiment with sexual variation. The topic of their personal sexual habits is never discussed.

Do you know what goes on in your best friend's bedroom? Yeah, I thought so.

Bondage Discipline Domination Submission Sado Masochism

BDSM is a variety of often erotic practices or roleplaying involving bondage, discipline, dominance and submission, sadomasochism, and other interpersonal dynamics. Given the wide range of practices, some of which may be engaged in by people who do not consider themselves as practicing BDSM, inclusion in the BDSM community or subculture is usually dependent on self-identification and shared experience...