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  1. TopTop #31
    rossmen
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    This project is a bum rush, and the bums are our city leaders, in cahoots with local developers for the rich. Just look at the architect renderings. They show nothing of surrounding existing development, because this project is so massive it will dwarf cvs. You're fooling yourself if you think there has been sufficient outreach. This is a perfect example of government action which drives citizens into outrage, then apathy, onto despair :..(

    Quote 1104GT wrote: View Post
    I was responding to the number of people on this forum that were surprised by the development. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 09-24-2016 at 02:20 PM.
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  3. TopTop #32
    Hollyanna's Avatar
    Hollyanna
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    With regard to citizens being uninformed and the lack of attendance at events that organizers work very hard to set up and publicize, I’ve started another thread listing resources here.
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  5. TopTop #33
    kane's Avatar
    kane
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Thanks Rustie,
    I have mixed feelings for this project. I have personally seen surrounding commercial rents climb steeply(doubled) after the barlow opened, even with the barlow then only 60% occupied. It's tough to be a small business owner/commercial renter in Sebastopol. Wahhh. The hotel will certainly continue this trend, no doubt. Great for landowners, not so great for stability of small businesses who must rent.
    That this is proposed so near to the confluence of Hwy's 12 & 116 is, frankly, insane. As we all know, it takes 15 minutes to pass through downtown most days now, and this project will increase transit times even further, along with idling engines spewing diesel particulates at pedestrian level. If you work 9-5 in a street-level business downtown, you know what I mean; it's a serious health threat.
    I see no new on-street parking added, though current street parking spaces seem to be counted/sold as 30 'new' spaces.
    Tourism as it is practiced in wine country is unsustainable; how many Gallons of petrol are burnt to consume 6 liters of vino?
    Wow, hotels use LOTS of water....say no more; when you're on vacation or 'getaway', who can be bothered to conserve?
    It's great, for a few, that tourists will leave piles of money here, but our collective quality of life is suffering for it, seriously.
    I think a continuation of the sidewalk on said lot would have been a quite fine connector between barlow-ville and the plaza, no need for five stories of connector.
    Looking at the barlow, it's already short of parking many days, so the "Hotel Seb" may need to rethink and add a five-level parking garage. The city ought to require a basement parking level, with bike lockers, all open to the public! now that would be a fantastic public service.

    Having said all that, the images look pretty sweet. I have a love-hate relationship with what downtown Healdsburg has become; yeah, it's all beautiful design, nice plantings, old bones of buildings preserved, but what does it add to the community besides wealthy and/or beautiful people slinging dollars for stuff they probably don't really need?
    To me it's primarily wine-themed disneyfication of what once was a genuine working-class small town.
    We've long passed the tipping point where the Sebastopol area is either working class or affordable, so maybe it's too late, buck up and accept our fate written by the wine tourism boosters PR hacks.

    If it gets built, I'll probably visit, walk-through on the way to the theatre, but I don't have friends who would/could shell-out $200-400 for a room, so I'll just have to wonder how the jet-set lives 'up there' in those lofty quarters.
    Oh, and they'd better have free and strong public WiFi in that 'public' plaza, or should I say public piazza.

    To sum-up:
    • 5 stories is too high
    • alcohol-free is the new bartini; ban the bar; breathalyzers at each exit; spare the public air
    • god I'm tired of alcohol-related businesses in my home place
    • start backyard-breeding glassy-winged sharpshooters everyone
    • must include a 'skybridge' across 116 to the plaza; screw the connector, we want a skybridge
    • bright and direct lighting should be minimized
    • rooftop garden anti-cackling ordinance to be enacted pronto
    • more public parking will be needed and should be added at developers cost
    • hotel should have 10% "affordable" rooms @ $19.99/night; maybe in tents on the rooftop garden?
    • in lieu of 10% affordable rooms, rooms available for hourly rental; certainly needed downtown...
    • should be put on a severe water-conservation program; low-flow, low-flush, no-flush?
    • I bet this means lowly pedestrians will finally get a crossing light(see skybridge comment above)
    • bring on the bypasses/overpasses/underpasses; who cares, just get rid of some damn cars please

    that is all, over and out, they're coming for me now
    Kane
    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    Kitty,

    Thanks to respond. Maybe most folks around here agree with you, that's what I'm trying to find out.

    I would however like to respond to your comments, maybe we can get some dialogue going. To begin with a “tourist trap” is exactly what a boutique hotel is. ....
    Last edited by Barry; 09-24-2016 at 02:23 PM.
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  7. TopTop #34
    tommy's Avatar
    tommy
    Supporting member

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    The proposal for the new hotel sounds sounds eerily familiar to the process with the new CVS. Have an owner of a vital downtown parcel partner with a developer to build something no one wants. Go thru the Design Review,. Planning Commission, and City Council. Have them change the plan setbacks, height, parking, landscaping, to put pretty wrapping and a bow on a project that no one wants. After a lengthy give and take, that exhausts everyone, have the dog approved.

    It speaks to our economy, where money trumps everything else, including people.

    This makes me remember the year that I lived in Sonoma, in the late 90s. It's beautiful town, beautiful square, with great restaurants. There's very little soul there. I moved back to Sebastopol as soon as I could, for the people here. Like Healdsburg, Sonoma has developed to be a tourist trap. Condos, B&Bs, wine shops. It's all high end. Very few average people there. No one can afford it. All the rich white people live in the City limits, hardly any middle income people, and all the servant/working class lives in the Sonoma Valley.

    The biggest need is for affordable housing. I'd hope that our City Council people and those running for office would have the vision of what people need, not what the property owner wants.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-24-2016 at 02:25 PM.
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  9. TopTop #35
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Tommy reminds us of an important history with respect to CVS--what a major disaster, which I hope many of us will boycott when it attempts to increase our already messed-up downtown traffic, to accumulate more wealth for outsiders, at our expenses.

    I have been following this debate on the new hotel + and must admit that I see good points on both sides. May the debate continue, in as cordial a way as possible.

    Quote tommy wrote: View Post
    The proposal for the new hotel sounds sounds eerily familiar to the process with the new CVS...
    Last edited by Barry; 09-24-2016 at 02:25 PM.
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  11. TopTop #36
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Quote kane wrote: View Post
    ...
    To sum-up:
    ...
    • in lieu of 10% affordable rooms, rooms available for hourly rental; certainly needed downtown...
    ....
    either you have a different experience with that style of hotel than I do, or I'm missing something about Sebastopol's underground economy. Last hotel I saw like that was next to Santa Anita raceway in LA. Although I hear that in the new economy with millennials living with their parents there's a new clientele forming for businesses like that. Still, that wasn't a feature request I saw coming!
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  13. TopTop #37
    KittyW's Avatar
    KittyW
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Hi Rustie, Kane, et al,

    My comment "perhaps if there were more boutique hotels perhaps there would be more affordable housing" is a wry comment on the effect Airbnb has on the rental market. Airbnb is devastating the rental markets in many areas by taking long-term rentals off the market and offering them for travelers and tourists.

    For $148 a night you can stay in an airbnb tent in in Sebastopol, so a boutique hotel room for $200 seems somewhat reasonable. As an avid traveler, I see rooms rates climbing everywhere. It's hard to find a decent guest house room in the outbacks of Southeast Asia these days for $19.99. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Motel 6 for less than $75 on the bleakest stretch of freeway here in CA.

    At the edge of the Bay area, Sebastopol is suffering the same soaring prices that are affecting the entirety of NorCal and just about everywhere. I know a number of people who dreamed of moving here to escape the intensity and over-heated pricing of the Bay Area. But their hopes were dashed by lack of affordable housing and lack of jobs.

    Where are these elusive developers of affordable and sustainable housing? Why aren't developers stepping up to invest millions in these kind of properties? Do you know any? I sure don't see many out there. What kind of civic campaign would it take to attract some?

    Look at Lyding Commons here in Sebastopol. A beautiful sustainable concept and thoughtful design, and so EXPENSIVE! Four years ago it was over $750,000 for a small live/work space with shared common areas. I have no idea what they might sell for now. But certainly not affordable for your average small business owner.

    Yes, there's some "disneyfication" going on. And there are also affluent people who genuinely desire to get away from their stressful lives and experience the beauty and bounty of Sonoma County. We're blessed with an explosion of organic wholesome artisan goodness going on around here (not just wine, and yes, there's a very dark side to some of the agriculture as well).

    People want to come taste and touch and feel it. It's a mixed bag of "progress."

    If the project goes through I hope that townspeople will work with the hotel's owners to encourage them to be good civic citizens and make positive contributions to the well-being of our town and its people.

    And Rustie, I agree that the public access and parking situation should be carefully scrutinized before it passes -- if it passes -- and potential new ideas brought forward that benefit the town, not just the hotel.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-25-2016 at 01:41 PM.
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  15. TopTop #38
    nancypreb's Avatar
    nancypreb
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Here's an interesting article that pertains to how we think about urbanization based on our values here in the states. It appeared on the same FB thread discussing Healdburg's housing crisis due to it's gentrification. Some interesting points to ponder I think....http://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/2016...landscape.html
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  16. TopTop #39
    1104GT's Avatar
    1104GT
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    One interesting aspect of this hotel proposal is the inclusion of 6 hostel style rooms over the maker spaces. The developer did add a qualifier that they had not tried this type of thing before, but they were willing to give it a try. I think this, plus the inclusion of maker spaces, public spaces and stepping up the massing away from the Plaza shows that the developer has listened to input and is actually trying to respond the community. That's a unique quality in a developer.

    I think the challenge with housing on this property is parking. Unlike a hotel which can have valet parking and an offsite lot and mechanized parking, housing needs onsite parking. Rent in this area is not high enough to justify structured or underground parking, so that means that over 1/2 the property would have to become a parking lot. When you do that math, I think housing is hard to get to pencil out in this location.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-25-2016 at 01:42 PM.
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  18. TopTop #40
    KittyW's Avatar
    KittyW
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    That's pretty cool that they are including 6 hostel rooms. I was just trying to make reservations for an event I'm attending in downtown San Diego early next year (yow - expensive!). I stumbled across a few hostel spaces in the midst of some very pricey real estate. This could be a good trend where developers are developing an improved sense of inclusiveness.

    Quote 1104GT wrote: View Post
    One interesting aspect of this hotel proposal is the inclusion of 6 hostel style rooms over the maker spaces.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-25-2016 at 01:42 PM.
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  20. TopTop #41
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Sebastopol Planning Commission Public Hearing
    on proposed HOTEL SEBASTOPOL


    Tuesday, September 27, 2016Youth Annex, 425 Morris St.7:00 p.m.

    More info here.

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  22. TopTop #42
    JayS
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    I've been involved in my own little priviate Idaho and did not know about the proposed hotel until I read it here on wacco.

    This hotel is going to be 5 freakin stories high??!!! Really? Holy smokes. What's so attractive about a 5 story building in my/our town? Right at two major intersections that have already become a mess thanks to CVS?? And it's been determined that this monstrosity WON"T negatively impact traffic?

    What a crock, what a stupid location, and what a stupid use of the space. One more idea, if brought to fruition, that will drive out the last of the long time sebastopol residents because they won't be able to afford to live here anymore. Heck, they can't afford to live here now.

    This is very disappointing and discouraging news. Where's the protest? Where's the outrage?

    arrgghh!
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  24. TopTop #43
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Quote JayS wrote: View Post
    ...This hotel is going to be 5 freakin stories high??!!! Really?...
    Not really. They are requesting 4 stories.

    From the staff report:
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  25. TopTop #44
    1104GT's Avatar
    1104GT
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Quote JayS wrote: View Post
    I've been involved in my own little priviate Idaho and did not know about the proposed hotel until I read it here on wacco.

    This hotel is going to be 5 freakin stories high??!!! Really? Holy smokes. What's so attractive about a 5 story building in my/our town? ... Where's the outrage?
    Before proceeding with outrage, have a better look at the drawings. Here's a link: http://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/def...et_revised.pdf

    The proposed hotel is a tall single story at the corner of Petaluma and McKinley, 2 stories along Petaluma stepping up to 3 stories along Depot and McKinley. The only 4 story section is about 1/2 the length of The Brown Street side, the least visible side. 3 stories is the maximum allowed by code. The frontage facing the Plaza is the lowest section and also the most open. There are wide sidewalks and a lot of space at the corner. Splitting the project is a pedestrian connector through to Brown Street. I don't think it's going to feel massing or overbearing at all. Have a good look at the drawings and you might be surprised at how nice it's going to be.

    Ted
    Last edited by Barry; 09-26-2016 at 04:39 PM.
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  27. TopTop #45
    rossmen
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    The drawings show nothing of surrounding existing buildings. That makes it difficult to visualize the scale and community impact of the proposed development. This isn't difficult to do. Clearly a choice was made.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-26-2016 at 04:41 PM.
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  28. TopTop #46
    Hollyanna's Avatar
    Hollyanna
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    A.15, A.20 & A.21 show elevations with existing buildings.


    You can see the full size elevations here:

    A20:
    http://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccob...6_22-09-09.png

    A21:
    http://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccob...6_22-10-23.png



    a20:



    a21:

    Last edited by Barry; 09-26-2016 at 10:12 PM.
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  30. TopTop #47
    rossmen
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Thank you, 20 and 21 do show how massive this project is compared to mimis and the movie theater. Why is this info not displayed in the pretty 3d perspectives which are always front and center on both the developers and city's presentation? Why only in a few limited elevations at the end of a really big pdf? I was at play in the courtyard of the same developers set up in healdsburg a few weeks ago. Puny compared to this monster!

    Quote Hollyanna wrote: View Post
    A.15, A.20 & A.21 show elevations with existing buildings.
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  31. TopTop #48
    jerichsalud's Avatar
    jerichsalud
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    As someone born in Sebastopol struggling to be able to stay here like so many other young West County people, this hotel project seems to not meet the needs of the residents of Sebastopol. Sebastopol has very limited plans for housing and has done little for housing in the past couple years. When you add more jobs without increased housing supply that means increase in housing costs. Of course, I also think the hotel will bring more wealthy out of towners with interest in living in our area or purchasing a getaway home which will also of course impact housing costs.

    Here's what I think might be a relevant article about the changes that have come to Healdsburg that I'd like to avoid. -- How wealth is making Healdsburg a miniature San Francisco

    From the article-- "In a little more than two decades, the Wine Country city of Healdsburg has transformed from the fading buckle on California’s prune belt into what Fodor’s Travel calls “one of the best small towns in America.” Ringing its picturesque town square are caviar-tart-serving restaurants, a couple dozen wine tasting venues and $400-per-night hotel rooms that draw international jet-setters.But for a growing number of residents — the ones who can’t afford $35 lobster risotto entrees — Healdsburg’s turnaround has been too successful. Its fading affordability has turned this 11,000-person city into a cautionary tale for how a regional economic boom can reshape even the towns on its fringes.

    Now Healdsburg leaders are trying to figure out how to keep the vineyard workers, teachers and waiters that made the city such an attractive food and wine mecca in the first place."



    http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/...an-6392920.php
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  32. TopTop #49
    kane's Avatar
    kane
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    I just wanted to mention that we are not alone in this quagmire; Maui comes immediately to mind, where many local native Hawaiians work two or three jobs to pay their rent, and a growing number are now homeless in their own homeland. There are now more Hawaiians on the mainland than in Hawai'i.

    Oh, and I was just kidding about adding hourly room rentals!

    And what is a "Hostel" room anyway? Too-soft mattresses on too-short bunk beds, with no privacy or security? Been to plenty hostels, just none in boutique hotels?

    See you Tuesday night everyone!

    Over and out
    Last edited by Barry; 09-26-2016 at 09:35 PM.
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  34. TopTop #50
    rossmen
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Yeah i love hostels! Its where i stay when travelling to cities far away. Though airbnb has made a play. My understanding is the seb hotel offers these rooms as a sop to community feedback with no commitment. Anyone who knows please correct me. I won't make it to the meeting cause its 4 yr old bedtime, and since i don't live in town, my opinion matters less. About the hourly rates, sebastopol wouldn't need them if chief hen weaver was less committed to puritanical laws.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-26-2016 at 09:36 PM.
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  35. TopTop #51
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    You can see the full size elevations that compare the proposed hotel to the nearby building here:

    A20:
    http://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccob...6_22-09-09.png

    A21:
    http://www.waccobb.net/forums/waccob...6_22-10-23.png
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  37. TopTop #52
    KittyW's Avatar
    KittyW
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Very interesting article about Healdsburg that jerichsalud posted (link below) .

    According to the article, it doesn't seem like boutique hotels had much to do with soaring rents ....

    Here's what the article discusses as the true root cause:

    "Much like San Francisco, Healdsburg has been altered by restrictive land use rules that were intended to preserve the city’s character, but have instead calcified its wealth gap.

    Voters’ restrictions
    In 2000, Healdsburg voters passed a growth-management ordinance — colloquially known as the GMO — restricting the city from issuing more than 30 residential building permits a year. It has worked too well. Since 2007, the city has approved an average of 20 units a year; nearly none for low-income residents. Due to the cap on development, many builders choose more lucrative and easy-to-finance single-family homes instead of multifamily dwellings."

    I was just listening to a story on NPR/KQED this morning. Lack of affordable housing is EPIDEMIC across the entire Bay Area and beyond. I sadly know many displaced renters. There are larger macroeconomic forces at work beyond boutique hotels.

    It is interesting to note that the Healdsburg voters were trying to preserve the character of their town but instead saw unintended consequences years later of over-gentrification.

    Here's what I think might be a relevant article about the changes that have come to Healdsburg that I'd like to avoid. -- How wealth is making Healdsburg a miniature San Francisco

    http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/...an-6392920.php
    Last edited by Barry; 09-27-2016 at 06:34 PM.
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  39. TopTop #53
    nancypreb's Avatar
    nancypreb
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Well then let's talk about Land Use! I'm sure you've looked up this property. It's current Land Use designation is "Downtown Core." The intention of Downtown Core is described as...
    "...to implementthe “Industrial” land use category of the GeneralPlan and to provide areas for the manufacture,assembly, packaging, or storage of products which,in the opinion of the Planning Commission, are notharmful, injurious, or detrimental to property or thegeneral welfare of the City and its residents; andother general commercial uses that are compatiblewith the industrial uses. This district is applicableto light and general industrial areas of the City."

    It's zoning under that Land Use is "M/Industrial." The purpose of "M/ Industrial" is:
    "to implementthe “Industrial” land use category of the GeneralPlan and to provide areas for the manufacture,assembly, packaging, or storage of products which,in the opinion of the Planning Commission, are notharmful, injurious, or detrimental to property or thegeneral welfare of the City and its residents; andother general commercial uses that are compatiblewith the industrial uses. This district is applicableto light and general industrial areas of the City."

    It's permitted uses are:


    A. Commercial Use Types.
    1. General wholesale sales.
    2. Commercial manufacturing.
    3. Transport and warehousing.
    4. Automotive repair and service.
    5. Food sales and service, except as provided
    in SMC 17.72.030.
    6. Office use on second floors existing as of
    May 21, 2013, within the area bounded by Sebas-topol Avenue, Petaluma Avenue, McKinley Street,and Morris Street.
    7. Barber and beauty shops if associated witha transient habitation use.
    8. Florists within the area bounded byLaguna Park Way, Morris Street, Sebastopol Ave-nue, and Petaluma Avenue.
    B. Industrial Use Types.
    1. Custom industrial.
    2. Light industrial.
    3. Artist work studios and arts-related fabri-cation.

    It's "Conditional Uses" are:

    A. Affordable housing projects.
    B. Permanent residential uses permitted in theRM-H District in a mixed-use development.
    C. Live-work dwelling units in a mixed-usedevelopment.
    D. Transient habitation in buildings existing asof July 23, 2013, within the area bounded byMcKinley Street, Morris Street, Sebastopol Ave-nue, and Depot Street.
    E. Commercial Use Types.
    1. General retail sales.
    2. Specialty retail sales.
    3. Walk-up food sales and service.
    4. Animal hospitals and kennels.
    5. Plant nurseries.

    F. The following civic use types:
    1. Community assembly.
    2. Community nonassembly.
    3. Community education.

    4. Health care civic.
    5. Utility civic uses.
    6. Extensive impact civic.

    G. Industrial Use Types.
    1. General industrial uses.
    2. Heavy industrial uses.
    3. Wineries and brewing facilities.

    Now don't be confused by the language "
    within the area bounded by McKinley Street, Morris Street, Sebastopol Avenue, and Depot Street." because THAT, my friend, was an adjustment made (and seen repeatedly, applying to a number of other specific business type exceptions) so that the Barlow could proceed with THEIR proposal of Hotel Barlow.

    If you look, you will see that it IS indeed the same story as Healdsburg's; we have a City that keeps making exceptions to suit the urge to capture quick and easy money from the 1%. And CURRENTLY, it appears as though the present Land Use/Zoning is not in keeping with this proposal. I surely must be wrong, though. Someone please correct me. I mean, the new GPU has yet to be adopted. Maybe the plan to make an exception for "transient habitation" at this location is being made now as we speak. Who knows. What I do know is that according to what exists right now, it appears as though….1) this project does not comply and 2) this City Council has now established a history of rewriting the rules to suit their immediate desires. Just look at the Barlow!!!!!

    Would you prefer to also just wait for a few years down the road before we admit… we too sold out?! Why not fight when there is still a chance?!
    Last edited by Barry; 09-27-2016 at 06:36 PM.
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  41. TopTop #54
    1104GT's Avatar
    1104GT
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    You are correct that the zoning is "Downtown Core", but the section you quoted is from the M-Industrial zone. The correct allowable uses for the Downtown Core are below.

    Hotels "Transient Occupancy" uses are allowed in the DC, but need a Conditional Use Permit if over 50 units.

    Ted

    17.64.020 Permitted uses.

    The following uses are permitted:
    A. The following commercial uses:
    1. Convenience sales and service.
    2. General retail sales.
    3. Food sales and service, except as provided in SMC 17.64.030.
    4. Office uses.
    5. Specialty retail sales.
    B. Home occupations.
    C. Homeless shelters.
    D. Small community education civic.
    E. Affordable housing projects.
    F. The following residential use type when part of a mixed-use development:
    1. Permanent residential uses permitted in the RM-H District.
    2. Live-work dwelling units, except that live-work units are not permitted along the street frontage on Sebastopol Avenue, Healdsburg Avenue/Gravenstein Highway North, or Gravenstein Highway South, except by use permit.
    G. Noncommercial minor antennas that meet the requirements of SMC 17.100.020 through 17.100.060 and comply with the following, as appropriate:
    H. Noncommercial minor antennas that meet the requirements of SMC 17.100.020 through 17.100.060, obtain site plan approval from the Planning Director, and comply with the following, as appropriate:
    I. Minor telecommunications facilities and commercial minor antennas, not exceeding 35 feet in height, provided the requirements of SMC 17.100.010 through 17.100.240 are met, as appropriate, as determined by the Planning Director.
    J. Transient habitation involving less than 50 rooms.

    17.64.030 Conditionally permitted uses.

    The followings uses may be permitted, upon the granting of a use permit in each case:
    A. The following civic use types:
    1. Community assembly.
    2. Community nonassembly.
    3. Large community education civic.
    4. Health care civic.
    5. Utility civic uses.
    B. Parking lots and freestanding parking structures.
    C. The following commercial uses:
    1. Extensive commercial.
    2. Automobile repair, sales and service.
    D. Transient habitation involving 50 or more rooms.
    E. Noncommercial minor antennas that do not meet all of the requirements of SMC 17.100.020 through 17.100.060.
    F. Commercial and noncommercial minor antennas that exceed the permitted heights for ground-mounted or building-mounted antennas, except that they may not exceed 100 feet in height.
    G. Major telecommunications facilities, provided the requirements of SMC 17.100.010 through 17.100.230 are met, as determined by the Planning Commission.
    H. Outdoor farm market.
    I. New developments comprising 25,000 square feet or greater of floor area.

    Quote nancypreb wrote: View Post
    Well then let's talk about Land Use!...

    It's zoning under that Land Use is "M/Industrial." ...
    SaveSave
    Last edited by Barry; 09-27-2016 at 06:38 PM.
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  42. TopTop #55
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Thanks, Ted, for these important details. We are all getting educated in this process and therefore becoming better citizens regarding how to support the town that we love so much.
    Last edited by Barry; 09-27-2016 at 06:38 PM.
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  44. TopTop #56
    1104GT's Avatar
    1104GT
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Quote jerichsalud wrote: View Post
    As someone born in Sebastopol struggling to be able to stay here like so many other young West County people...
    I agree with a lot of the concern about Sonoma County (and most of coastal California) becoming increasing expensive. Increasing property values, rents and gentrification are subjects I've been struggling to figure out. We discussed this a lot during the General Plan meetings and I've done a lot of reading, thinking, and continue to talk to people who know more than I do, but I can't put my finger on a workable solution.

    This is a really beautiful, desirable place that has become increasingly easy to access over the past 50 years. We also are not in a bubble and our next door neighbor (the SF Bay Area) is home to some of the wealthiest people on the planet. Wealthy people can get here easily and find property relatively affordable when they arrive. So, there is demand that I don't think we can do anything about.

    Every regulatory solution seems to have some kind of negative impact and all roads seem to lead to increasing property values and rent. Limiting or restricting growth reduces supply and leads to increased property values and rents. Loosening the restrictions on growth increases supply, so rents and values stabilize in the short term, but then this area becomes more affordable relative to the rest of the Bay Area. When that happens, people start moving here because they can afford it. Demand increases and that makes rents and values rise again.

    I'm becoming convinced that higher population, increasing property values and rising rents are inevitable and something we can't do anything about. Can we stop people from moving here or coming to visit? I don't think so. What I do think we can control is the design of our community. That's why I support Urban Growth Boundaries and increasing density in the center of all our towns. I would love to see more housing and jobs in Sebastopol and would prefer to have tourists staying in town instead of in some other town or out in an AirBnb in the country.

    If anyone knows of proven ways that we can manage the challenges we face, I would love to hear about them.

    Ted
    Last edited by Barry; 09-27-2016 at 06:44 PM.
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  46. TopTop #57
    nancypreb's Avatar
    nancypreb
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Quote 1104GT wrote: View Post
    I agree with a lot of the concern about Sonoma County (and most of coastal California) becoming increasing expensive. ...

    If anyone knows of proven ways that we can manage the challenges we face, I would love to hear about them.
    First, to ask for a "proven way" is the first misstep, especially considering that you've established that there is no workable solution found in all of your research, that the housing crisis is inevitable, and nothing we can do anything about. Once again, you've eliminated the potential for innovation and true progressive creative solutions.

    The next misstep is placating to the notion that centrally located industry is either ill-suited and/or an eye-sore, a term many people have used when referring to the property. The "eyesore" is on Basso, not the existence of tractors and parts. Would Napa Auto Parts be the next "eyesore" that will need to be resolved? Then what, the deli…. and it goes on.

    If we are making revitalization improvements, we have to be clear WHO we are making the improvements for. Right now, we're making the improvements for the folks who have their weekend home, their investment property, their retirement home here (once they're ready to cash in on the City life). We're making the improvements for the tourist industry and the dollars we're soliciting from the 1%ers. We're NOT making the improvements for the construction workers, the teachers, the accountants, the bank tellers, the people who (few as they are) LIVE and WORK here and raise their FAMILIES here.

    That's not to say that improvements aren't needed, it's just to say THOSE are not the people on who's behalf we're looking for solutions. When I sat through the PHG's workshop and listened to a woman say we needed the hotel because her friends needed a place to stay when she throws her birthday party, not recognizing her, I made it a point to find out more about her. You see, her house was too small to accommodate all her friends, because all her friends were from SF, because THAT'S WHERE SHE RESIDES! This is her weekend home. Now, how someone like that knew about this workshop while nobody who walks their dog on a daily basis down Leland St. knew anything about a hotel, is beyond me!

    Bottom line- we are conflating a supposed need for additional transient accommodations with a full-fledged investment into the fastest growing industry of the century- TOURISM. Do we have nothing else to stem revitalization and/or improve access to supposedly much-needed accommodations?

    Well….here's some thoughts which stem from investing in our AGRICULTURE and investing in industry and manufacturing:
    1) Just like Spring Hill Cheese bought and fully restore the old Petaluma Creamery, let's get a creamery in there and increase our artisanal cheese production.

    2) Perhaps Ace hardware would like to move downtown for all of their garden/housekeeping wares so they can expand their tool and lumber where they are now.

    3) Get a small electric car dealership to go in

    4) I believe if we actually solicited for development proposals besides just tourist-oriented hotel developers, we would have some interesting and viable options.
    If more accommodations are a real need for this town, then lets talk about the airbnb. There are several already in town and more that could be incentivised. Right now, our home/farm stay ordinances require that the accommodation be a room in an occupant's home, you know, where one keeps their jewelry and guns and heirlooms and children and, and, and… It's ludicrous that we don't allow for granny units, converted garages, and other detached dwelling for OWNER OCCUPIED properties, especially if the process was incentivized by reduced permit fees and a local administrative association. You don't think we could create 40-60 accommodations in people's backyards in this town, what with all the residents who could use the additional income?! That would dissipate incoming traffic and eliminate influx of low-salary employee traffic coming in from surrounding areas adding to congestion.

    One of the main reasons why the CVS development was such a fiasco is because we failed to implement policy that could mitigate/eliminate their proposal. Much like still not having Glass-Steagall reinstated this long after the 2008, nobody should be shocked when it all comes crashing down again. Now, this town did pass the formula chain ordinance, but there's SO much more to do instead of fear-mongering people with the notion that this project HAS to be done now and here lest some much worse developer decides to throw $$ Basso's way and he pulls a Pellini maneuver on us!

    Lastly, to be true progressives, we need to be leaders in changing our society from one of consumerism based on desire to consumerism based of NEED. The city keeps asking us what we WANT, not what we NEED- and that's a much different approach. Do we NEED a wellness center in the downtown core when we have a failing hospital up the street?! No we need a wellness center that can partner with our hospital so it stays open and viable. Do we NEED more cafes?! HELL NO. I have yet to want for coffee in this town. Do we NEED more fancy restaurants? I hear it's hard for the ones existing.

    What we NEED is for our city officials to stop making caveats to Land Use and Zoning, putting hair salons and real estate offices and fitness clubs in Industrial zoned locations. If you're going to do that, then we need our own kind of Cap-n-Trade and you find places like the old lumber yard to take on the industrial needs of this town. We NEED to be a town that produces and exports goods, not imports tourists. What we need is to not worry so much about the eyesore if the business is thriving and providing jobs that are more than entry-level hospitality jobs.

    What we NEED is our special subcommittee to host more than ONE workshop, in a room that is only prepared to hold maybe 50 people, talking to themselves and the same tiny handful of people in order to find out what we NEED!!!!!!! We need our city representatives to NOT put their spouses on special subcommittees, but rather REACH OUT- there's more than one person with planning/development/marketing/workshop experience. We need our city representatives to show up to these workshops and talk with folks and NOT put their own dots on the wall, because that's just listening to yourselves, not your community. We need workshops hosted at the library, school gym, take a day and go into some classrooms- YES, it's TOTALLY reasonable to expect the city representatives to "come to us" on something like this, when what you claim you want is "community input." In moments like this, they DO need to make their job to campaign for our future as a town and a community, not just the next upcoming election!
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  48. TopTop #58
    KittyW's Avatar
    KittyW
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Some great ideas there, Nancy! I particularly like your idea of supporting agriculture. What about an artisan food company incubator? There's LaCocina in SF, Forage Kitchen in Oakland, and KitchenTown in San Mateo/Silicon Valley.

    The farmers are here. The creativity is here. An incubator would trump a hotel any day for value to the community and to the local economy. Why not one here?

    There was once an effort called Preserve Sonoma which I believe started in Sebastopol some years ago. It was a food processing and preservation company whose mission is to help local farmers utilize produce that might otherwise end up as compost. I don't know if it ever found a home. (see https://www.gardentribe.com/merrilee-olson/ )

    There was also an artisan food incubator considered for Petaluma - I don't know if it ever materialized - http://www.northbaybusinessjournal.c...id=778&fid=181

    The Napa-Sonoma Small Business Development Center teaches courses on taking your concept from Kitchen to Market. I think they were involved with the Petaluma and Preserve Sonoma efforts, and could be a good resource.

    Is anyone interested in working together to launch an effort to examine this possibility? I would kick some effort in on that. (I just made 2 phone calls to investigate what happened to the aforementioned projects...would do much more if there was a coalition) Is it too late for such an effort or just-in-time?


    From Nancy: "We're NOT making the improvements for the construction workers, the teachers, the accountants, the bank tellers, the people who (few as they are) LIVE and WORK here and raise their FAMILIES here......

    Well….here's some thoughts which stem from investing in our AGRICULTURE and investing in industry and manufacturing: 1) Just like Spring Hill Cheese bought and fully restore the old Petaluma Creamery, let's get a creamery in there and increase our artisinal cheese production."
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  50. TopTop #59
    jerichsalud's Avatar
    jerichsalud
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    I disagree. My interpretation is that the problem may be exacerbated by the GMO [growth-management ordinance ] but the article focuses on the growth as a tourism hub as the main contributing factor. Also, there is a measure on the ballot to change the GMO in Healdsburg to raise the cap.

    From the article- "
    But in the early 1980s, the city commissioned a study from the American Institute of Architects. It suggested taking advantage of the Wine Country location to become a hub for “destination tourism.”City leaders followed the prescient advice and their timing couldn’t have been better. California’s $25 billion wine industry has doubled in sales since 1998, and Healdsburg — located near three top growing regions — was ready to be a base camp for upscale tourists. The $400-per-night Healdsburg Hotel, which opened in 2001, became a beachhead for dozens of San Francisco-quality restaurants and shops to follow. A recent study said the city could easily fill double its 300 hotel rooms.

    “Healdsburg has done a very good job of moving from a very slow-moving, agricultural hub into a place that is a worldwide mecca,” said Robert Eyler, a professor of economics at Sonoma State University and director of the Center for Regional Economic Analysis. “But now it is dealing with the pains of that.”"

    Quote KittyW wrote: View Post
    ...According to the article, it doesn't seem like boutique hotels had much to do with soaring rents ....

    Here's what the article discusses as the true root cause:

    "Much like San Francisco, Healdsburg has been altered by restrictive land use rules that were intended to preserve the city’s character, but have instead calcified its wealth gap.

    Voters’ restrictions
    In 2000, Healdsburg voters passed a growth-management ordinance...
    ...
    http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/...an-6392920.php
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  52. TopTop #60
    1104GT's Avatar
    1104GT
     

    Re: Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

    Quote nancypreb wrote: View Post
    First, to ask for a "proven way" is the first misstep, especially considering that you've established that there is no workable solution found in all of your research, that the housing crisis is inevitable, and nothing we can do anything about. Once again, you've eliminated the potential for innovation and true progressive creative solutions.
    I haven't eliminated the potential for anything. I would love to see a real example of "true progressive creative solutions". Do you actually know of any?

    Quote nancypreb wrote: View Post
    The next misstep is placating to the notion that centrally located industry is either ill-suited and/or an eye-sore, a term many people have used when referring to the property. The "eyesore" is on Basso, not the existence of tractors and parts. Would Napa Auto Parts be the next "eyesore" that will need to be resolved? Then what, the deli…. and it goes on.
    I am a huge supporter of centrally located industry, but the ones we still have are only there because they make financial sense for the property owner. If we're talking about rethinking property rights, that's an entirely different conversation.

    Quote nancypreb wrote: View Post
    ... because all her friends were from SF, because THAT'S WHERE SHE RESIDES! This is her weekend home. Now, how someone like that knew about this workshop while nobody who walks their dog on a daily basis down Leland St. knew anything about a hotel, is beyond me!
    So, how do we keep people from out of town from buying second or third homes? How do we keep tourists from coming? Build a wall?

    BTW, you make a great point about how she knew about the workshop when so many locals did not. Why do you think that is?

    Quote nancypreb wrote: View Post
    1) Just like Spring Hill Cheese bought and fully restore the old Petaluma Creamery, let's get a creamery in there and increase our artisinal cheese production. 2) Perhaps Ace hardware would like to move downtown for all of their garden/housekeeping wares so they can expand their tool and lumber where they are now. 3) Get a small electric car dealership to go in 4) I believe if we actually solicited for development proposals besides just tourist-oriented hotel developers, we would have some interesting and viable options.
    Spring Hill Cheese restored the building because it made financial sense for them to do so. Plain and simple. All your ideas are great, but those businesses are not stepping forward. Where are they? This lot has been available for decades.

    There are empty and underutilized parcels all over town. Why are your favorite businesses and progressive thinkers not acting?

    Quote nancypreb wrote: View Post
    If more accommodations are a real need for this town, then lets talk about the airbnb. There are several already in town and more that could be incetivised.
    Really? Won't that drive prices up even more as investors pour in to buy all our single family homes to turn into vacation rentals? No, thank you!

    Quote nancypreb wrote: View Post
    Lastly, to be true progressives, we need to be leaders in changing our society from one of consumerism based on desire to consumerism based of NEED.
    I agree with that idea, but how? Who's done it before? How does it work?

    Quote nancypreb wrote: View Post
    No we need a wellness center that can partner with our hospital so it stays open and viable. Do we NEED more cafes?! HELL NO. I have yet to want for coffee in this town. Do we NEED more fancy restaurants? I hear it's hard for the ones existing.
    So, who decides what we "need"? Then, who goes out and finds the business or service we need? Who's land does the needed business go on? Who tells the cafe owner that they can't open a shop? Who tells the restaurant to close because we don't "need" them? Might they some day tell me they "need" my house for some other purpose other than me living in it? I just don't get how this works. Please explain.

    Quote nancypreb wrote: View Post
    What we need is to not worry so much about the eye-sore if the business is thriving and providing jobs that are more than entry-level hospitality jobs.
    Let's be honest, the tractor company is there because Ron didn't want to spend a dime on the property and they were the only ones who would rent it as-is. I like the tractor business, but it's hardly a boon to local employment, industrial production or had much positive impact on the local economy. Maybe its on the "need" list?

    Quote nancypreb wrote: View Post
    What we NEED is our special subcommittee to host more than ONE workshop, in a room that is only prepared to hold maybe 50 people, talking to themselves and the same tiny handful of people in order to find out what we NEED!!!!!!! We need our city representatives to NOT put their spouses on special subcommittees, but rather REACH OUT- there's more than one person with planning/development/marketing/workshop experience. We need our city representatives to show up to these workshops and talk with folks and NOT put their own dots on the wall, because that's just listening to yourselves, not your community. We need workshops hosted at the library, school gym, take a day and go into some classrooms- YES, it's TOTALLY reasonable to expect the city representatives to "come to us" on something like this, when what you claim you want is "community input." In moments like this, they DO need to make their job to campaign for our future as a town and a community, not just the next upcoming election!
    What we really need is for people to pay attention, step up and take responsibility for being members of the community. There are two seats on the council open and only three people stepped up to run in time to actually be printed on the ballot. (One more joined in as a write in candidate). The General Plan meetings were attended by a handful of people. People don't show up to workshops, then complain about being left out.

    Things only change when people with real ideas take action. Talk is plentiful but actions and real actionable ideas seem to be few.

    Ted
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