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  1. TopTop #1
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    It is not the guns that are the biggest problem; no, it is the 'hatred'.

    Getting 'rid' of all the guns in the world will not solve the underline issue of the hatred which is the fuel for the violence that some of the perpetrators have wreaked onto society at large by some who use guns to mass kill.

    In some cases, but, not all;'mass' killings are by way of 'gun violence', however that could be and IMHO, is likely to be statistically lower than several other forms of 'killing'.

    I fact, I believe that the hatred of “the other” has more to do with the huge majority of 'intentional' killings, mass or otherwise, world-wide, and in the USA than all the 'gun' related killings because (IMHO) it is the deeply embedded societal 'norm' (all across the globe) to ostracize 'the other' who is so different or the 'other' who lives and acts in “defiance” of particular societal structures: IE: religion, casteetc... etc...

    ...It (the 'absolutists' and the cultural violence, and (whereas) the inevitable conclusion some come to that lead to the infamous “mass killings” which I am referring to here as the status quo of the intolerant 'hate mongers') (It) is a condition that feeds into the vitriol attitudes of (the) 'intolerance' of those who are so different that for some who hold onto their intolerance, (and) for them it is unfathomable to think of how, why, or even that 'the other/s' could (possibly) have any rights to do and be what they do and are, or would 'choose' to do or (to) be.

    Guns are not the root of the problem, they are but one of many tools of the hate mongers and intolerant.

    If we 'get rid of all the guns in the world and do not vastly reduce and put a virtual end to the the hatred and intolerance at the roots of the violence that inevitably erupts into 'mass killings' it won't make all that much difference.

    Get rid of the hatred and intolerance of 'the other' and for the most part the 'problem” will be greatly reduced.

    Guns are 'tools' and the thing with human kind is that when one tool becomes obsolete, but the 'job' it does is still a to do thing then the 'tools' will be modified or changed into something easier to use and would just morph into even more “effective” 'tools' and, well; we all can see clearly where that leads to.

    Read and seriously consider the following:
    https://stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdf
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  3. TopTop #2
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    we must deal w. brain chemistry imbalance (mental health issues). we can cut our prison population in 1/2, reduce all kinds of violence, reduce drug use/abuse by 60% or more, yet we continue to ignore "prevention".
    can not think of one thing that would make more improvements in the health of this country. mental health is not separate from physical health. the brain is one of the most important organs in the body, we need to put at least as many resources into dealing with brain chemistry imbalances as we do to heart disease and cancer combined.
    we would solve so many problems.
    (yes, i do believe assault style weapons are weapons for war & should be banned....& yes would be great if we weren't involved in wars...finding peace at home should be high on our agenda).


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44: View Post
    My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    It is not the guns that are the biggest problem; no, it is the 'hatred'....

    Read and seriously consider the following:
    https://stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdf
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2016 at 02:33 PM.
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  5. TopTop #3
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Mental health is not the underlying reason why the gun violence and mass murderers using guns occurs per se.

    I do agree with the general principle of healthcare for all being a constitutional issue, as in a constitutional right like Bernie Sanders has been stating throughout his campaign and of course, the healthcare would include psychological not just the physical.

    I am quite concerned that the masses of society (we) is (are) overlooking the vitriol hatred and discrimination of which I briefly described as causative in my original post that started this thread.

    Contrary to what the mass media has been doing, whether intentional or not by way of how they have been covering it;
    It has been pointing the finger (incorrectly I might add) towards people with mental illness as being more likely of mass murdering when in fact the sinister nature of intolerance and hatred is not at all considered a mental illness (nor in a literal sense do I think it is;a mental illness).

    It is so very unfortunate that intolerance and hatred of 'the other', so to speak is such a common reality within so many societies around the world, whereas the nurturing of such “hatred and intolerance” by the vast majority of political and power structures worldwide, which is what I was alluding to in my first post that started at is the essence of my not so short rant as is this thread.

    Mental illness in this case, IMHO, is all too easy to use as a scapegoat for what really needs to be investigated deeper within all societies, particularly, in the United States, for us anyway .

    Of course when terrible tragic things happen and mass murder occurs like what happened in Florida the other day, people would rather point the finger at “radical Islamist extremism”, or the 'mentally ill” being the ones to concentrate our energies on to prevent such tragedies in the future; I suppose that should be part of the prevention plan, but only part of it and not the biggest part of it either.

    I think the media has done great harm and its lack of investigative reporting in regards to a lot of things but particularly the way in which it focuses on mass killings on one hand, but does not say much about other types of mass killings that happen overseas in which our country does have some culpability, but of course it is “the other/s” whom we decided we have to be at combat with and of course the so-called unintended victims of our military actions overseas, etc.
    I'm not trying to legitimize any violence here. I am just saying that the media ignores a lot which should not be ignored. If it is going to be a part of the solution and not part of perpetuating the problem of hatred, intolerance, and the ensuing violence as a result of.

    By the way, just a note on what people who have professionally studied mental illness and its connection to mass murder and extreme violent acts; there is an article titled: Study: People with mental illnesses rarely commit violent acts which I think has within it mentioned how the media by the methods of which it highlights certain happenings it makes convoluted the issue between mental illness and extreme violence to the point where too many people believe the untrue stereotypes, whereas the root of the problem that I am referring to here which is intolerance and hatred that is fueled by societal power structures worldwide. Whether it be political, religion, or just plain cultural it is too much ignored by the so-called "news media".

    I too think it would be absolutely wonderful if there was not any need for police to prevent or at least be a deterrent to people that would otherwise commit violent crimes against someone, but the world is not that wonderful unfortunately, and those who are sworn to serve and protect so to speak, do need the ability to defeat the ones with the with intent (and the ability) who would otherwise carry it through or continue with more of the same as they (have already) committed extreme violence, etc... ...and there is the individual's 'right' to defend one's self from a direct assault on one's person; there is not always a cop there when you 'need' one.

    I don't think we can or even should expect psychologists and psychiatrists to be able to even so much as mitigate the hatred and intolerance; if we are going to rid ourselves of such, then it is society which has to evolve enough to change that.

    Can we get rid of all the guns?… … Should we even try to get rid of all the guns?… … Well, in my opinion, no, and no.... ... Because doing either would not in one iota. Change the existing underlying hatred and intolerance which is at the root of the violence.

    I could go on but I think this is already gone a little bit far, but I'm gonna keep it up anyway... ... And, at least ask this question:
    To what degree of: ignorance, denial, indifference, and the lack of empathy could exist in someone or any society at large be considered “mental illness”?...
    ... For now, I will leave that unanswered and hope for the best.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    we must deal w. brain chemistry imbalance (mental health issues)....
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2016 at 02:36 PM.
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  7. TopTop #4
    Thad's Avatar
    Thad
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    If you want to solve hatred you catch it while its just irritation but how many have the benefit of close people that attentive and wise.

    An honest summation of everything says it has to get worse before it gets better.

    Until its so bad people will not yield their fantasy's of private domains where the crazy lives on the outside. Evolution shows many dead ends and this will be one of them.

    The cracker jack housing built to formula for maximum monetary gain is still the dominant style of development where people grow their crazy in isolation.

    No security cameras will save us

    control the guns another method will be devised

    Its return to tribe where people grow in enough attention that crazy is caught before it becomes wrote in stone, while its

    still just an unformed animosity and not left to a solitary interpretation

    It will get worse until people out of desperation for some sense of shared strength will create their own tribes together

    perhaps they will be wise tribes and inclusive

    otherwise

    just another mound of fire ants
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2016 at 02:38 PM.
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  9. TopTop #5
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    I strongly disagree.

    As an aside, the Orlando shooting cannot be pinned down to just one or even two factors. There is homophobia (hate), 2nd Amendment, "mental illness" (whatever that is), religion, etc. Heck, it's even possible that the shooter himself was gay or bi and had what the mental health field calls a "reaction formation."

    Mental illness is only one factor but even if that was completely put under control, it would not solve most of the shootings.

    As you have already talked about hate, I'm going to interpret that as the homophobia angle. And I agree with you for the most part with what you said about the root being hatred, etc.

    Then there is the need to repeal the 2nd Amendment. After the US Constitution is modified in this way, then we can let the states decide. This is a common strategy with many contentious issues, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.

    Finally, there is the religious angle, which many people seem to feel touchy about, even more so than the mental health factor but not more than the 2nd Amendment solution. The father of the shooter came out and stated something along the lines of, "It is up to god to punish homosexuality." Now that is pretty fucked up and you can tell right away where that scumbag mass murderer got his homophobic education from--his dad! There is no mystery here.

    But the most important factor are the American people themselves and their values. Nothing substantial will change regarding gun violence until most people decide that action must be taken, and then and only then will the social illness of gun violence begin to come under control. And for that, most Americans will have to accept the several reforms/issues I mentioned above. US citizens will have to come to terms and embrace things that right now they bitterly refuse to accept. The current attitudes of most Americans regarding guns is the problem. Nothing will change until American opinions change.

    The gun control problem is a problem, first and foremost, with the American people themselves. Just like with the issue of gay marriage, it wasn't until the majority of Americans (51%) decided that gay marriage was a right that it finally began to be so.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44: View Post
    Can we get rid of all the guns?… … Should we even try to get rid of all the guns?… … Well, in my opinion, no, and no.... ... Because doing either would not in one iota. Change the existing underlying hatred and intolerance which is at the root of the violence.

    I could go on but I think this is already gone a little bit far, but I'm gonna keep it up anyway... ... And, at least ask this question:
    To what degree of: ignorance, denial, indifference, and the lack of empathy could exist in someone or any society at large be considered “mental illness”?...
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  11. TopTop #6
    Thad's Avatar
    Thad
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Isaac Asimov saw this coming and wrote the Foundation series to indicate the collapse of an Empire as a result of technology outpacing humane society.

    As so much of our society depends more and more on electronics, what happens when the sun burps or the poles shift where's the human society to stand in.

    Should there be a great depression like there was not so long ago, how many will pull together or become marauding forces?

    keep the guns for then

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza: View Post
    I strongly disagree....
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2016 at 02:39 PM.
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  13. TopTop #7
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza: View Post
    I strongly disagree.
    ... ...

    Quote The current attitudes of most Americans regarding guns is the problem.
    I strongly disagree.
    It is the intolerance, and hatred, of which are the most significant problems, guns without the hatred and intolerance would be collecting dust and naturally, in time become museum pieces.
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  15. TopTop #8
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    How dare you disagree with me! Grrr.
    :0)

    Guns will never collect dust because there are too many uses for them. Ranchers and farmers, hunters, police, military, have too much need for them. Sure, maybe someday we can eliminate the need for armies and also have a police like the UK where their 'bobbies' don't have guns, but that's speculative.

    Australia succeeded in enacting tough gun laws after an American style mass shooting and they have not had another one since! It worked for the Aussies and it will work for the US as well.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44: View Post
    ... ...

    I strongly disagree.
    It is the intolerance, and hatred, of which are the most significant problems, guns without the hatred and intolerance would be collecting dust and naturally, in time become museum pieces.
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  16. TopTop #9
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    No, we don't need to elaborate science fiction hypotheticals in order to justify something that is unjustifiable.

    We do need, however, to repeal the 2nd Amendment yesterday.

    Let the states decide (after the repeal). This is something I don't say lightly because I usually consider the whole states' rights argument a bunch of Confederate, racist hooey that dates back to slavery and the civil war.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Thad: View Post
    Isaac Asimov saw this coming and wrote the Foundation series ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2016 at 02:40 PM.
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  17. TopTop #10
    Thad's Avatar
    Thad
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Coming from the history of it when the document was written, life was more rustic than urban.
    Guns were a necessity of life and not expected to be needed to be writ in, a small lack of foresight.

    Everyone needs the ability to stop an attacking force.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2016 at 02:41 PM.
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  19. TopTop #11
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

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  21. TopTop #12
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Why?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Thad: View Post
    Everyone needs the ability to stop an attacking force.
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  22. TopTop #13
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    To stay alive, maybe? I'd rather have that ability than not....
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza: View Post
    Why?
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2016 at 02:41 PM.
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  24. TopTop #14
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Who is going to attack you?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sara S: View Post
    To stay alive, maybe? I'd rather have that ability than not....
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  25. TopTop #15
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Who knows? Could be anybody.....and I'm sort of a "gun" person, since I tagged along with my brother many years ago, and took an NRA class on how to shoot a 22 rifle. And I own a couple of guns....
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza: View Post
    Who is going to attack you?
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2016 at 02:42 PM.
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  27. TopTop #16
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    But that's precisely the attitude that is the obstacle to a solution to shootings like in Florida, Colorado, California, etc, etc, etc.

    It's time to have a change of heart to stop the cadavers from piling up any further.

    What do you think is the solution to the gun violence epidemic? How do we stop these mass shootings? Because they will continue to come.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sara S: View Post
    Who knows? Could be anybody.....and I'm sort of a "gun" person, since I tagged along with my brother many years ago, and took an NRA class on how to shoot a 22 rifle. And I own a couple of guns....
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  29. TopTop #17
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    could you live with an important start like banning assault style weapons?
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  31. TopTop #18
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Me personally? Yes, absolutely!

    I'd like to ask that exact same question of pro gun folks, like the ones right here on this thread and the rest of the Wacco community.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    could you live with an important start like banning assault style weapons?
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  33. TopTop #19
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    I have no idea; banning assault rifles would be a start, I guess.....and I'd be all for that.
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  35. TopTop #20
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Would be thrilled. an important start.
    (the few "gun friends" i have believe they need to arm themselves against the gov't. one likes the "fun" factor.
    don't believe this was what the framers had in mind. regardless, an important step in stopping "mass" shootings.)
    so many other factors. if we as a community & a country could get behind this one piece, it would be an important beginning.
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  37. TopTop #21
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    I agree.

    I remember how, as a child, we were brainwashed by teachers at school with these absurd narratives and made to believe that it was up to us, the general public, to stand up to our government with our guns and put democracy right again and to overthrow it. Well, that might have been an accurate narrative in the early days of our Republic but it hasn't been for more than a century and a half, at least.

    One of the lesser reasons that the slaveholding South seceded and then attacked the North was because of this mistaken narrative. The most important reason for the Civil War, of course, was slavery. The Confederacy believed that the US Constitution did not prohibit slavery and that it was a states' rights issue to be dealt with exclusively at the state level, without any interference from the evil federal government. Well, the sore losers throughout the South have been whining ever since and continue to wave that shameful Confederate flag and constantly tossing around the phrase, "states' rights," which Republicans parrot.

    Personally, I don't own a gun. Never have, never will. No need.

    We as a nation will be infinitely better off without guns and without the 2nd Amendment.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    Would be thrilled. an important start...
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  39. TopTop #22
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    from Mark Morford, SFGate.com:

    America: Drunk on hate, dying for love

    By Mark Morford
    on June 13, 201

    When facing horror or tragedy, the country lights up even more for peace. It's never the other way around.

    From Jesus to Buddha, the Dalai Lama to MLK, the LGBT community to President Obama himself, in the face of horrendous violence, in the face of relentless stabs of blind hate, homophobia, racism, fear and death and a savage ignorance of God, the simple, but profoundly felt, call to love.

    “As we come together, we will draw inspiration from heroic and selfless acts. Friends who helped friends, took care of each other and saved lives in the face of hate and violence. We’ll love one another. We will not give in to fear or turn against each other,” said a deeply somber Obama, in the wake of yet another mass shooting, the 176th this year alone and the sixth in recent history where the shooter used the AR-15 assault rifle, the same one the NRA refuses to allow to be banned, because what’s hundreds of murdered men, women and schoolchildren when it might lead to slightly more strict gun licensing laws, or restrictions on bringing a handgun to church or Walmart or college?

    From ISIS to al Qaeda, from the American Family Association to the Family Research Council, from the NRA to Donald Trump to Republican members of congress, in the face of brutish violence, in the face of blind hate and moral destruction, religious extremism and the calculated poisoning of the human soul, the call to… hate even more.

    “If you had guns in that room, if you had — even if you had a number of people having them strapped to their ankle or strapped to their waist, where bullets could have flown in the other direction right at him, you wouldn’t have had the same kind of a tragedy,” oozed Trump, a gleeful sneer ever at his lips, as he went on to reiterate his call for even more severe crackdowns, bigger walls, sharper intolerance, an even more racist response to Muslims – a truly terrifying speech and all, of course, very much to the delight of ISIS itself, even though the Orlando shooter had no real ties to any terrorist organization, even though he was an American citizen, born in Trump’s very own beloved NYC, worked for US companies, bought a house and wasn’t mentally ill, was merely another morally warped, hated-filled homophobe with NRA-blessed access to all the guns he wanted.

    Not all that different than Trump’s core supporter base, really.

    Can it be any more plain? ISIS loves Donald Trump, and Trump can barely contain his gratitude for ISIS. They are bizarre brethren, a closed loop of inbred hate: The more ultra-violence that can be even remotely linked to radical Islam, the more Trump’s toxic brand of moral panic can flourish. And the more Trump spouts anti-Islamic bigotry and hints at some sort of gruesome conspiracy, the more ISIS sees its vile master plan as unfolding exactly as it hopes.

    Continues here
    Last edited by Barry; 06-15-2016 at 01:59 PM.
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  41. TopTop #23
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    this is a rant from FB .... I can't verify a lot of the facts, but I do wonder about all of this ... because when you look at all of the realities of our country right now it's hard to ignore these feelings that something strange is going on ... citizens complaining of extreme harassment, whistle blowers destroyed, press gagged, some police going a bit beserk, election fraud suspected, ranchers complaining of land grabs, vaccines mandated, chemtrails debated, and the list goes on and on ... what the hell is happening to our country?

    "This Country of Ours needs to be shut down and fumigated for Parasites! Seriously, the reports are coming out, yet again! How long are we going to tolerate this relentless play on America? How many times have we seen and heard evidence that we are being played politically with these events... These diabolical false flag events are going to be the catalyst to disarm America, but only some of us are giving thought. This play is particularly bottom line treasonous, and the way America accepts this, completely asinine. Think about it for one minute... We have constant Attacks by Guns on our soil and all these innocent people being killed...

    We have these Crisis unfold with outrageous oddities in those attending both as victims and the so called troubled participants. We have seen reports that the killers parents have ties set to testify against big bankers twice, once at the Colorado theater (the father said to be warned) and the other at Sandy Hook (The Shooters Mother Killed). Both shooters were said to have attended mind control studies... As a matter of fact, it has also been reported that some of the others, such as Jared Lee Loughner (The Tuscan Killer of a Judge that was said to be a thorn in Bush)...From the Oklahoma City Bombing, from which Eric Holder was said to have played a part in setting it up, to 911 that smells with overwhelming evidence of wholesale murder, conspiracy against the United States, and Treason... to all of the boutique controlled drills, crisis, shootings, bombings... in the name of first Al Qaeda and than ISIS, who were both CIA startups... What is America turning a blind eye on? What are we buying in to? What is the real agenda? Is it really taking away our guns?


    And, if that is even what it is, why would we give them up? After all they wage illegal and senseless and never ending wars on the so called threat who went from riding camels to military vehicles and jet planes that the USA and Britain has given them. Our government officials from congress to Obama, including the old criminal regime of Bush and Cheney, report daily that ISIS is here and going to take us out... our GRID is not safe, they are fearing nukes... and we are targets... They should be handing out guns to every household like Israel has been mandated to do decades ago.


    None of it adds up. It doesn't make sense. It is like we are living our lives from a bad comic book... featuring absurd, diabolical, and whacked out characters... that continue to go on and on with one episode after another, while the innocent people just sit and look on in either fear, ignorance, or outright complacency... So again, look at this story, and tell me it is all just a coincidence and nothing to consider. If this is true, Where is our anger? What will it take to address the problem of Parasites in this God Forsaken Country? Do you honestly care about your children and grand Children? Is that what keeps us in check? Just what will come of all of it, should we continue to blindly accept what they are giving us?


    On the other side of the coin, It won't be long that this regularly Scheduled Programming, steps up within society, on it's own steam... distrust, disdain, hatred, discrimination, like a cancer growing on the masses... just like they did in the middle east and other war torn theaters... have you noticed costco is selling ammo containers?"
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  43. TopTop #24
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Oh, and the above rant was written in reaction to this story ... honestly, I don't know what to think ...

    https://www.madcowprod.com/2016/06/1...ime-cia-asset/
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  44. TopTop #25
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Lots of comments and posts to reply to here, so I will try to keep each reply as short as I can and reply to some statements in separate posts.

    Using Australia as an example to compare with USA in regards to guns is like comparing apples-to-oranges because Australia never had anything like the American 2nd amendment.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza: View Post
    ...Australia succeeded in enacting tough gun laws after an American style mass shooting and they have not had another one since! It worked for the Aussies and it will work for the US as well.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-15-2016 at 02:01 PM.
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  46. TopTop #26
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Depends what it is a “start” to.
    If it is a start to forcibly confiscating all guns, than it is at best a misnomer for real acceptance, tolerance, and 'peaceful' co-existence etc.. ...which is the real 'goal'... ...isn't it?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    could you live with an important start like banning assault style weapons?
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  48. TopTop #27
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    For an answer to that please refer to: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...177#post203177

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza: View Post
    Me personally? Yes, absolutely!

    I'd like to ask that exact same question of pro gun folks, like the ones right here on this thread and the rest of the Wacco community.
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  50. TopTop #28
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Not so sure what to make of the rest of it but I do agree with:

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Sara S: View Post
    | Love or hate? It's ALWAYS your choice.
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  52. TopTop #29
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    That is a very legitimate and most valuable question to be asking. Answering it involves realizing a very complex set of existing circumstances which, without prejudice, all of have to be considered and none of them should be rejected as to not investigate.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza: View Post
    ...What do you think is the solution to the gun violence epidemic? How do we stop these mass shootings? Because they will continue to come.
    Yes (obviously), if no one had any guns, then no one would get shot or killed by any guns; but, no; we all know that eliminating so much as 'most' guns won't happen in any of our lifetimes... ...But if it did happen, without ridding ourselves of the underlying reasons for the gunfire caused killings, then as I stated previously, there would just be a replacement 'tool' to do the killing, unfortunately.

    Secondly, the term "gun violence epidemic" may not (I think does not) accurately describe what the real underlying 'epidemic' is all coming from (causation).

    Eliminating the 2nd amendment as has been suggested may not (Very unlikely to, {IMHO}) come anywhere near to the what really has to be done (primarily, in the first place) to effectively; IE; put an end to the actual "epidemic" (hate, intolerance, fear, and dehumanization of the 'other', etc.)...
    ...It (Eliminating the 2nd amendment) is, IMHO:
    A- going after a symptom,
    B- is a waste of valuable time, energy and resources, and,
    C- almost inevitable to cause further societal conflict... ...(yes, bloody violence);
    D- furthermore has high potential to make matters much worse than they are now;
    E- would prove to be ineffectual to accomplish 'stated' goal; (ending the actual cause of the "epidemic").
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  54. TopTop #30
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: My (not so) short “rant” against an Incorrect so-called “gun control”...

    Another good reason why we need to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

    Regarding Australia, I beg to differ. For starters, simply because the US does have a 2nd Amendment does not mean that we cannot enact sensible gun control laws. Some of the best legislation on gun control has been eliminated by the Republican Congress since the year 2001. Bill Clinton favored gun control and his second term ended in January 2001.

    I don't see such a big difference between Australia and the US. Some of the biggest differences include the delusional fantasy about you, me and our neighbors using our pea shooters to overthrow the US Armed Forces. Second, we don't need to fear our government in that way. Do you honestly believe that the US military is ready to pounce on us at any moment? Firstly, most of the people who feel that way are right wing nuts who have already voted for Trump in the primaries. Secondly, it is just plain absurd.

    Another big difference is that the gun lobby, arms manufacturers, NRA, and other powerful special interests have a strong upper hand in the gun debate and in politics. This also helps to fuel the fantasies born with the US as a nation and making sure, like Thomas Jefferson warned, that the government stays democratic.

    And finally, there is AN OCEAN of weapons in the US that has never existed in Australia.

    None of those things that I mentioned are roadblocks for sensible and effective gun control legislation in the US. Most, if not all, of the laws passed by the Australian government can also be implemented here. If not in the short run then in the long run.

    There are many things that can be done, prohibition of automatic weapons such as assault rifles (machine guns), government buy back programs, public outreach and education, and much, much more.


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44: View Post
    Lots of comments and posts to reply to here, so I will try to keep each reply as short as I can and reply to some statements in separate posts.

    Using Australia as an example to compare with USA in regards to guns is like comparing apples-to-oranges because Australia never had anything like the American 2nd amendment.
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