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  1. TopTop #1
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    By now you probably have seen this disturbing video originally posted on Facebook by Don McComas of Rohnert Park.

    According to the PD's article:

    Santa Rosa criminal defense attorney Paul Lozada said that the officer’s reason for visiting the neighborhood and talking with the man is essential to understanding whether police acted within the law.

    Lozada said that any officer can have a “consensual” contact with an individual whether the person is suspected of a crime or not and, for example, ask that person to remove a hand from a pocket.

    But the nature of the encounter changes once the officer begins demanding a person follow orders and pulls a gun. California law defines brandishing as drawing or exhibiting a deadly weapon or firearm in the presence of another person.

    “It becomes a problem when he draws his gun,” Lozada said.

    The officer “needs to have a reasonable suspicion that the person he’s talking to is engaged in some sort of criminal activity,” Lozada said. “If that man is not (suspected of a crime) this officer may have committed a misdemeanor brandishing offense.”

    Lozada said that he believed there were enough questions about the officer’s behavior and called for the Sonoma County District Attorney’s Office to review the incident.

    “The officer has to have a reasonable suspicion when he tries to detain or order someone to do something,” Lozada said.

    So I'd say the officer may well be guilty of "brandishing", but what about the citizen's behavior?? He sure seems antagonistic to me. If he had originally complied with the officer's reasonable (and I presume legal) request to remove his hand from his pocket, instead of resisting and then complying, it all would have gone differently.

    While I think it is true that there are many cases that the police create a problem or use excessive forces it's also true that citizens can provoke a problem unnecessarily. Police are people, too, and they are doing a very dangerous job. They have good reason to take lots of precautions, like asking someone to take their hand out of their pocket. Apparently drawing his gun when the citizen refuses is going too far, but only by a little, in my opinion. Where the officer really goes off the rails, IMO, is keeping his gun out after the citizen took his hand out of his pocket. But again, it was the citizen, that provoked this.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Barry; 08-05-2015 at 05:33 PM.

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  3. TopTop #2
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    I hadn't seen this video. It seems that the resident indicated previous problems with the police, so that may be why the officer acted like he did. It seems that there's more to be discovered about this incident that's made to look like an isolated intimidation of an innocent resident. More shall be revealed.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    By now you probably have seen this disturbing video originally posted on Facebook by Don McComas of Rohnert Park.

    According to the PD's article:

    Santa Rosa criminal defense attorney Paul Lozada said that the officer’s reason for visiting the neighborhood and talking with the man is essential to understanding whether police acted within the law.

    Lozada said that any officer can have a “consensual” contact with an individual whether the person is suspected of a crime or not and, for example, ask that person to remove a hand from a pocket.

    But the nature of the encounter changes once the officer begins demanding a person follow orders and pulls a gun. California law defines brandishing as drawing or exhibiting a deadly weapon or firearm in the presence of another person.

    “It becomes a problem when he draws his gun,” Lozada said.

    The officer “needs to have a reasonable suspicion that the person he’s talking to is engaged in some sort of criminal activity,” Lozada said. “If that man is not (suspected of a crime) this officer may have committed a misdemeanor brandishing offense.”

    Lozada said that he believed there were enough questions about the officer’s behavior and called for the Sonoma County District Attorney’s Office to review the incident.

    “The officer has to have a reasonable suspicion when he tries to detain or order someone to do something,” Lozada said.

    So I'd say the officer may well be guilty of "brandishing", but what about the citizen's behavior?? He sure seems antagonistic to me. If he had originally complied with the officer's reasonable (and I presume legal) request to remove his hand from his pocket, instead of resisting and then complying, it all would have gone differently.

    While I think it is true that there are many cases that the police create a problem or use excessive forces it's also true that citizens can provoke a problem unnecessarily. Police are people, too, and they are doing a very dangerous job. They have good reason to take lots of precautions, like asking someone to take their hand out of their pocket. Apparently drawing his gun when the citizen refuses is going too far, but only by a little, in my opinion. Where the officer really goes off the rails, IMO, is keeping his gun out after the citizen took his hand out of his pocket. But again, it was the citizen, that provoked this.

    What do you think?
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  4. TopTop #3
    jesswolfe's Avatar
    jesswolfe
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    First, I think its always best to be respectful to people. That being said, I didn't see the guy filming getting out of line or being combative till the gun came out. And stayed out. I would be freaked out if a police officer came and parked near me, came out of his car, and took his gun out just because the guy didn't take his hand out of his pocket. There was obviously no reason to do that, especially since apparently no crime was committed.

    I get it that police are people too. And we need to treat each other with respect. My expectation is that if a person is a police officer they are doing it to keep the peace. and that their FIRST action is to do what they can to keep the peace. I think that taking out a gun should always be the last resort. Unforunitely there are too many examples of police using their position and their weapons to express their power, not to keep the peace.

    I keep thinking that any time we are told to just be polite and nothing will happen, is just like saying to a woman, if you just dress correctly and act correctly you won't temp anyone to rape you. That is obviously false, and it does apply to any kind of situation where power is abused. The abuse of power doesn't care how you act or what you wear. Its only about power.

    This was an abuse of power. Last year I had a couple of situations where I needed to call the police. Every single time it scared me to death to do it because I could not be sure that the person I was calling about wasn't going to be killed. No one should be afraid of the police. No one should be afraid to call the police for fear they will hurt someone you love instead of help. I got lucky. That didn't happen. But the fear is still with me.

    Jess
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  6. TopTop #4
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by jesswolfe: View Post
    ...I didn't see the guy filming getting out of line or being combative till the gun came out. ...
    Around 2:15 minutes in, when the officer gets out of his car, he say "Sir(?) take your hand out of your pocket". The citizen replies "No sir, I've done nothing. I've done absolutely nothing. No." and then the gun comes out.

    I would count that as being "combative" and perhaps "out of line". If the office was asking/telling him to get on the ground, or even put both his hands up in the air, his response would have been warranted, if unwise, but taking your hand out of your pocket (that might contain a gun) is a fine request and I would call his response "combative". No?
    Last edited by Barry; 08-06-2015 at 12:21 PM.

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  8. TopTop #5
    rossmen
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    the officer's behavior was unnecessary and provocative. the guy pulled his hand out because he didn't want to get killed.

    i view this in the context of the current debate about police body cams. why are they being resisted fiercely by law enforcement? because the only time police get in trouble is when their actions are recorded. that's why violent enforcement goes down with body cams, our fellow citizens who are licensed to kill are accountable for their actions. the da will do nothing and our county sheriff will continue to delay on the bos request to carry cams.
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  10. TopTop #6
    Tinkerbell's Avatar
    Tinkerbell
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    This seems to me a childish testing of wills that could have turned dangerous and should be avoided by citizens, and especially by police.

    I facilitated a misdemeanor diversion class in Sonoma County a few years ago. It was my casual observation that Rohnert Park Police officers and Sebastopol Police officers detained and arrested citizens for the most minor offenses, I think because they didn't have enough to do.

    In one example, several college students walking across campus at midnight were stopped for no reason by a Rohnert Police officer. The officer asked to look in their backpacks and found they were carrying beer cans. They were charged with being minors in possession of alcohol, even though they had not been drinking at the time.

    I observed no such minor detentions or arrests by Santa Rosa or Petaluma Police, who seem to have more important things to do.
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  12. TopTop #7
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    More information is needed ...

    Why was the cop approaching this man? ... is there a history that provoked this? ... if not, then why is this scene happening? ...

    Though I would have taken my hand out of my pocket immediately, I have to agree with Paul Lozada when he says “It becomes a problem when he draws his gun, ... The officer “needs to have a reasonable suspicion that the person he’s talking to is engaged in some sort of criminal activity,” ...

    Once the gun is out it's a different situation ... one wrong movement and it could get ugly ... so, was the man involved in criminal activity? or is this just an innocent person suddenly being threatened with a gun?
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  14. TopTop #8
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    My thoughts exactly. It seems there is some history because of the man's own words which infer that.
    Would any of us turn our camera on a police car seen in our neighborhood? I would be curious, and maybe watch, but wouldn't think about recording it, unless.....?

    Also once a gun is drawn, I wouldn't do anything to provoke that person unless I knew I was in no danger. How would I assume this? Do I have hidden back up? Or do I just like risking my life, unarmed while having a "face off" with the law? Is this ego or stupidity? It could have ended quite differently.....and tragically....for what purpose?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    More information is needed ...
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  16. TopTop #9
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    this video illustrates the absolute need for Police Oversight. this is what many people are working towards in our county right now.

    Police do not have the right to brandish a weapon without a damn good reason. Unfortunately they do so and then all they have to say is "i felt my life was in danger" This is simply Not acceptable. Their jobs by the way, are not by any means the most dangerous jobs...there are many jobs more dangerous...and the police run about # 18 on the list..so let us not exaggerate.

    The Chief of RP will diminish this video and the actions of this officer and want this case to be closed. this is exactly why there is so little trust in law efforcement and there needs to be an honest dialog as to the enormous problems communities face all over this country around police brutality. When the Civil Rights Commission came here 15 years ago to report on the uptick of police killings in this county, their report stated that this was one of the most polarized smaller communities they have ever come to and they found it difficult to engage with the different departments and establish some real dialog about problems we have....it has now become worse and since then we have had 0ver 70 more deaths in this county directly at the hands of Law Enforcement or while in custody. this needs to change. The Task Force has been working diligently to bring recommendations to the Board for Oversight,but the bottom line is that this Sheriff does not have to listen.

    I think at least Chief Schreeder of the Santa Rosa Police department is trying create an atmosphere of reaching out to the communities they serve and listen to their needs...a good start. Can't say the same for Sheriff Steve Freitas.

    Anyway, we need oversight and this most recent video demonstrates this need. It could have gone much worse.
    besiva
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  18. TopTop #10
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    I have no judgement about this scenario, without more details. Something must have happened before this resident felt it was important to videotape the officer. If not, then I'd say the resident may have wanted to provoke a confrontation, again, for unknown reasons. Would any of you do this kind of thing when you see a police car in your neighborhood? Why? or Why not?

    Do you think the resident's confrontive response was good judgement? Would you do the same in similar circumstances? Do you think it was a risky action on his part, considering how it could have come down? Would you advise your children to follow this example when dealing with law enforcement?

    Do you believe that this officer targeted an innocent resident? If so, what might have been his reason?
    Do you think the officer acted irrationally? What about the resident?
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  19. TopTop #11
    jesswolfe's Avatar
    jesswolfe
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    Barry, to answer your question, I probably would have taken my hand out of my pocket. Did he overreact? I guess, given what transpired, I have to question the police officer's motives. He was already taunting the guy before he got out of his car. And they both knew it.

    A few have questioned whether there is history. Or there was some reason. That this guy must have been up to something because why record the encounter? But the guy wasn't arrested. There was no reason given for the encounter. The officer only asked about his political views while holding a gun.

    Given the question whether he provoked it again I'm going to bring up other violent acts of power. How often have we heard well she must have provoked him and that's why he hit her. Or that person did something to provoke rape. Or that black child was killed within seconds of an encounter with a police officer because they did something wrong, or their past somehow justifies being thrown to the ground with a knee on their back. If we keep allowing and excusing this behavior, either being disrespectful or using guns or violence to enforce power, it's not going to stop. We need to examine our reactions and realize that no one deserves violence. Even though this person wasn't shot, this was a violent encounter. Why is that being allowed and supported in our culture? Why is our first question "what did you do to cause that person to hurt you?"

    Jessica
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  21. TopTop #12
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    Whenever there is an encounter between two people, both have choices, if only in attitude. If one person "over-reacts" it likely sets up a "reaction" in the other person, unless that other person is highly evolved. We are not seeing two high evolved people in this scenario. Over-reaction is a kind of violence in itself, which can feed hidden feelings of anger, fear, mistrust, or general upset in the person receiving it. Both were over-reacting, and feeding into deeper feelings.

    Although no one deserves violence, our country is built on it. We justify it, glorify it, and honor killing that we do to the "enemy". This is the world we live in, and the question really is "what are we doing to shift this?" We need to look inside more than outside, where it's easy to blame and point the finger.

    How do we "over-react", and what are the consequences? In hindsight do we realize there may be been a better way to handle a situation?

    We are all part of this equation, not outside of it.
    Last edited by Barry; 08-07-2015 at 02:02 PM.
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  23. TopTop #13
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    I hope that the details of this case come out soon ... What was the cop doing in this neighborhood? and why did this man feel the need to film him? ... had he been harassed by the police before? ... he seems strangely defensive ...

    I have had similar experiences, though I have no history of violence or criminal behavior. The police seemed very interested in me after I reported criminal behavior in our county ... at one point it got so bad that I contacted our supervisor's office for help and I was sent a form to make a formal complaint ... I also attended the police meeting at the grange to question all of this ... I was told that if I was erroneously put on a "watch list" because of retaliation that I would be unable to verify this or question it ...

    Once again, if this is a case of harassment, then we need to enforce our laws about due process ...
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  25. TopTop #14
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    This is the note that this man put on this video on youtube ....

    "NOTE, I am not anti police however the lies and distrust I've encountered from the Rohnert Park & Petaluma Police over the last 15 months is something I wouldn't ever believe if I heard it from someone"

    Also, a comment from that video ...

    "Are you some kind of constitutionalist. cop forgot HE took an OATH to uphold and defend the Constitution"

    From this man's FaceBook page ...

    "I was hooking my boat to the truck, doing NOTHING else when he decides to once again (few dozen times over the past year) stop infront of my house and just look while acting like he's calling something in."
    Last edited by Barry; 08-07-2015 at 01:42 PM.
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  26. TopTop #15
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    Fear can provoke us to do things we wouldn't do if we felt confident.
    Last edited by Barry; 08-07-2015 at 01:14 PM.
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  28. TopTop #16
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    I think is sometimes must suck to be a cop. But he's at work and getting paid, while the dude he's dealing with presumably isn't there in a professional capacity. So he has nothing compelling him to cooperate in making the workplace pleasant. Whether it's smart to piss off someone with a gun is a different question. Unfortunately for the person on the job, they have to deal with the public in ways approved by their employers and the law, or they don't keep their job in the first case, and are subject to prosecution in the second.
    Last edited by Barry; 08-07-2015 at 01:15 PM.
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  30. TopTop #17
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    I think the citizen was acting like a provocative jerk! The cop was pretty mellow under the circumstances.
    Last edited by Barry; 08-07-2015 at 01:15 PM.
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  32. TopTop #18
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    I would count that as being "combative" and perhaps "out of line". If the office was asking/telling him to get on the ground, or even put both his hands up in the air, his response would have been warranted, if unwise, but taking your hand out of your pocket (that might contain a gun) is a fine request and I would call his response "combative". No?
    along the same lines as my other reply: just because sometimes people have guns, police can't force them to prove they don't. That's why it sometimes sucks to be a cop. I give them full respect for the fact that they're taking on a job where they're more likely to encounter people with guns than I am. (That being said, I actually have been forced to deal with a customer with a gun while I was working. They still wouldn't let me pat down future customers at gunpoint.) But dammit that's a big part of us being a free country and it's where I do have sympathy with those bewailing a nanny state. Total safety is a foolish goal, and the presence of risk doesn't mean giving up our right to be disrespectful to authority. It's a slippery slope to Egypt...
    Last edited by podfish; 08-06-2015 at 05:57 PM. Reason: missed my shot!
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  34. TopTop #19
    beshiva's Avatar
    beshiva
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shandi: View Post
    I hadn't seen this video. It seems that the resident indicated previous problems with the police, so that may be why the officer acted like he did. It seems that there's more to be discovered about this incident that's made to look like an isolated intimidation of an innocent resident. More shall be revealed.
    we should focus on what happened in "this" video and the behavior of "this" cop. People have rights, police have rights. the public has the right to film law enforcement and clearly this officer did not like that. And THEN the
    confrontation began. It was the responsibility of the officer to diffuse the situation. Asking the man to take his hand out of his pocket is reasonable and it's reasonable for a citizen to ask what do you want, am i accused of something, and what are you doing here? The problem arises when the police think just because they are driving up to a house somewhere that from there on in what they say and do is alright, it simply is Not.

    They have to have a reason to question you and from what this video tells us there was NO reason to get out of the car and bug this guy, and he did so because it irritated him that the man was filming him. It is his RIGHT to film him and it's his First Amendment right to film the police engaged in his duties.(numerous laws on the books) .

    And what IF the man was a "constitutionalist"...what has THAT got to do with anything! Officer was out of line,
    inappropriate, intimidating, and lacked insight in how to make things go smoother. I believe it's a lack of training.
    beshiva
    Last edited by Barry; 08-07-2015 at 01:18 PM.
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  35. TopTop #20
    sharingwisdom's Avatar
    sharingwisdom
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    Many INNOCENT individuals have been imprisoned, or otherwise harmed, merely because they chose to answer questions asked by some Law Enforcement Officer or government official, agent, representative, tribunal, or employee.
    It is very important to understand that the 5th Amendment protects the innocent more than the guilty.

    Knowing how to assert your rights is not only a good idea to prevent from being unlawfully kidnapped or caged, but it is also a successful catalyst for change when applied on a large enough scale.
    In the video below, activist Kenny Suitter, shows how to properly remain silent during police interactions. It is as simple as stating, “I do not answer questions.”

    Because of the SCOTUS ruling in Salinas v. Texas, you are now expected to know that you have a right against self-incrimination, and unless you specifically and clearly invoke this right, anything you say or do not say, including your mannerisms at the time you stop talking, can be used against you. You actually have to say, “I do not answer questions.”


    Don’t concern yourself with what kind of interrogation you’re in. Don’t worry about whether Salinas applies in your particular situation. Just invoke your 5th Amendment right immediately, verbally, and clearly.


    Being stopped by police can be a particularly stressful experience. An innocent individual can easily get tricked into self-incriminating themselves as the police officer badgers and pries for information.


    Memorizing laws and and statutes can go a long way, however, having a business card handy, that states your rights for you, is much more convenient, especially when under the stress of a police stop.

    https://thefreethoughtproject.com/video-i-answer-questions-witness-power-remaining-silent/#ebWz8Ij1rTAEl5qM.01


    Police Specific Questions to ASK they dont want you to know (Revised)

    Question's To Always Ask Police Before Answering Their's!
    1) Am I legally obligated?
    2) Am I being detained?
    3) Am I free to go?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QftAHTB5qMg
    Last edited by Barry; 08-07-2015 at 01:19 PM.
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  37. TopTop #21
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    This is excellent information to know. In the current situation, the resident wasn't initially asked a question, but given an order to remove his hand from his pocket. This seems like a simple request, especially if the officer had some reason to want this. Actually having a hand in a pocket would seem to make us more vulnerable.

    I was stopped a few years ago for a missing rear bumper on a vehicle I'd just purchased. It had been ordered, but not received yet. The officer asked where I was headed, and although I thought it was a strange question, I didn't hesitate to answer. He said "O.K." and didn't give me a ticket, which he could have. If I had said "I don't answer questions", it seems that would have set up a reaction where he may have given me a fix it ticket.

    Being in law enforcement is a position of power over others, and many choose to use it for ego gratification, racism, fear, stress, or any personal reason. Fortunately, I haven't had many encounters during my lifetime, except for a few traffic stops.

    I appreciate having this information about not answering questions, and would use it if the situation seemed to warrant it.

    I know that many innocent people have been terrorized and imprisoned by those in law enforcement. I'm glad to see that cell phones have been useful in recording unlawful actions by both citizens, and police. Body cams are yet another level of proof.
    Last edited by Barry; 08-07-2015 at 01:21 PM.
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  39. TopTop #22
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    I find the situation that we find ourselves in heart breaking .... all of these reactions and fears are the results of the police state .... we never used to feel like this ....

    My uncle was a cop and I have lived with an ex-cop so I've never feared the police ... I always saw it as a tough job and I wondered why anyone would want to do it ... my ex-roommate told me that he became a cop because he wanted to stop the "bad guys" ... a simple statement but something tells me that it's not that simple ...

    Many credible sources have reported that our country is now an oligarchy controlled by bankers and corporations ... there are verifiable reports that some of our police are now being trained in Israel ... an oligarchy doesn't care about justice, it's only concerned with profits ... let that sink in for a moment ...

    Today I had a sheriff's car riding up and down my street ... I live on a country road and this is unusual ... I was in Lucky's and a man came up to me and said that the same people who had been harassing me killed his wife ... I took it as yet another death threat, the consequences of telling the truth about this story perhaps ...

    Either a community rises up against these threats together or we all lose our freedoms ... I'm not seeing this unity and courage anymore in America ... people are scared ...

    I hope to leave America soon and 35 percent of the population have expressed the desire to do the same ... it's all very sad ...
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  41. TopTop #23
    Attic
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    The officer is a danger to himself and the public. The officer acknowledged, that his actions were all because the guy filmed him, which he actually has a legal right to do. This officer is a disgrace. The officer didn't like being videotaped, pulling his gun out of the holster is why he's being investigated & why he's on leave.
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  43. TopTop #24
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    I hate thuggy cops as much as anybody, but the existence of badge-carrying bullies should not blind us to the fact that the profession of policing itself is an absolutely essential and honorable social necessity. Without this institution it would be a wild-west kind of world where anarchy reigned, and citizen militias would become our only protection against criminality.

    Think of what it takes to be a good cop. You have to be courageous and assertive enough to deal with the most violent and dangerous criminals, yet remain a basically kind and reasonable human being. That's a tough combination of qualities to find in a person. I don't know about you, but while I have the latter qualities I sure don't have the former, nor do I know anyone else who does. If you do, maybe you should volunteer for the job. The pay is good.

    The guy that shot that video behaved in a very belligerent and provocative manner. If I had been that cop I too would have been uneasy about the hand in the pocket. That cop took a lot of abuse from the guy. A less mellow cop would have busted the guy immediately instead of indulging in lengthy back and forth conversation with an angry, insulting jerk and then backing off and leaving.
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  45. TopTop #25
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    Your words that express uncommon wisdom and compassion.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by occihoff: View Post
    I hate thuggy cops as much as anybody, but...
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  46. TopTop #26
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    I think that the man filming this video was motivated by fear ... and to be fair, perhaps the cop was also motivated by fear ... but come on folks, we have a serious problem in this country .... we should not be afraid of our police and we should not be afraid to call our police .... we should be working together to keep our communities safe ....

    this interview touches upon the problem ...

    https://www.ora.tv/offthegrid/articl...-they-might-do
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  48. TopTop #27
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    This story is now going to the courts as civil rights violations are being challenged by the man who filmed this video ... regardless of where you stand on this issue, the story has received a great deal of national publicity which is probably a good thing as we, the citizens of this country, strive to understand and react to the changes going on in our police force ...

    This is an old article but it illustrates some of the realities of our modern world ( which need to be questioned ) ... we should add "non-lethal" weapons to this list, a wonderful array of electronic weapons which can stop any crowd of protesters from a distance ... have we become so unruly that all of this has become necessary? ... actually, crime statistics prove that the opposite is happening so what's going on here?

    Only 62 Members of Congress Voted Against Police Militarization Last Night

    "During the amendment voting for "defense" appropriations last night, Alan Grayson (FL-09) introduced an amendment to prohibit the use of funds to transfer aircraft (including unmanned aerial vehicles), armored vehicles, grenade launchers, silencers, toxicological agents, launch vehicles, guided missiles, ballistic missiles, rockets, torpedoes, bombs, mines, or nuclear weapons through the DOD Excess Personal Property Program established pursuant to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1997."

    https://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/06...ion-Last-Night
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  50. TopTop #28
    rossmen
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    i don't think recording police on duty is belligerent or provocative. and i've never heard of a cop killer who videoed the victim before acting. this officer is an idiot, obviously triggered by a careful and fearful citizens action. the whole interaction could be resolved by an apology and follow up question, why do you think the rppd are corrupt? i have heard many stories of corruption in sonoma county law enforcement agencys, and my own experience is that "good" officers will cover for "bad officers", right here in sebtown. and then there is the fact that courts have ruled that being too intelligent is reason to disqualify a law enforcement applicant. i also name white privilege, i can challenge law enforcement action and policy with far less risk because of my blue eyes and pink skin. so could you.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by occihoff: View Post
    ...
    The guy that shot that video behaved in a very belligerent and provocative manner. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 08-12-2015 at 10:45 AM.
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  52. TopTop #29
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    I have my own videos of abuse ... and witnesses too ... it's good to see this man getting legal help ... perhaps I should follow his lead ...

    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/4...g-civil-rights
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  53. TopTop #30
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: Rohnert Park Policeman pulls gun out - Video

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    ...But again, it was the citizen, that provoked this.
    ...What do you think?
    Based on what that video shows, I am not so fast to pass judgment... ...Because:

    1- It seems to me that the police officer did not like being videoed; I think it made him feel uncomfortable, maybe even a little intimidated or challenged in some way maybe?.

    2- then the police officer for reasons not clear (to us); for one reason that that I am saying it is not clear to us is we have not been privy to what was said on the police radio between the officer and dispatch, another reason is what the history is, (if any) there is between the police (or the individual officer in the video or whatever other like situations that may exist) and the person and / or his “family” which was eluded to in the video by the person doing the video...
    ...So I think that we can only make assumptions on those unknown to us aspects which may if we did know, would be more informative... ...Whatever on that, I don't know, do you?

    ...Anyway, what do we reasonably actually know about what was on that video?...

    ...We, I think, can say:
    ...We “reasonably” know that:

    A- the 'videographer' (as I will call him from this point on) was videoing the police car at some point and the officer became aware of that at some point.

    B- the officer stopped the police car in the middle of the street, and was closely watching the 'videographer', and appeared to be calling to someone, somewhere on the police radio,

    C- After some moments went by after the (first known of) 'police radio contact' (we are lead to believe; but I could not see inside the officer's patrol car well enough in the video to say I “know for sure” that he was 1- actually communicating on that radio though or, 2- if there had been previous radio contact about the 'situation'),

    D- Then, after that the officer appeared to use a camera to photograph the 'videographer'.

    D- Next, the police officer got out of the patrol car and confronted the 'videographer'.. ...I don't know exactly why nor do I think anyone here does either.

    E- Other than pointing something out that I may have missed, the video 'speaks' for itself well enough and everything else we can say about it (for the most part) is opinions and assumptions, based on bias in one way or the other.

    That being said:
    I do agree with arthunter that:
    Quote “More information is needed ...
    and I agree with the reasoning that jesswolfe uses saying:
    Quote How often have we heard well she must have provoked him and that's why he hit her. Or that person did something to provoke rape. Or that black child was killed within seconds of an encounter with a police officer because they did something wrong, or their past somehow justifies being thrown to the ground with a knee on their back. If we keep allowing and excusing this behavior, either being disrespectful or using guns or violence to enforce power, it's not going to stop. We need to examine our reactions and realize that no one deserves violence. Even though this person wasn't shot, this was a violent encounter. Why is that being allowed and supported in our culture? Why is our first question "what did you do to cause that person to hurt you?"
    Last edited by Hotspring 44; 08-12-2015 at 07:13 PM. Reason: added minor detail for clarity
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