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  1. TopTop #1
    Peacetown Jonathan's Avatar
    Investigative Reporter

    Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    By Jonathan Greenberg
    For WaccoBB.net
    May 25, 2015


    Ray Hino, the warm-spirited, highly accomplished new CEO of the soon-to-open Sonoma West Medical Center (SWMC), seems to relish his new role as tour guide. Every Saturday for the past few months Hino, with his signature welcoming smile, light blue suit and tie, has graciously guided area residents through the innovative steps and spaces that will make Sonoma County’s only “no-wait emergency room” possible.

    The tour begins in the renovated emergency room area. Visitors see a hospital waiting room that has been transformed into a staging area where patients will be seen almost immediately by a qualified medical professional. Hino next leads them through the hallway into some of the most thoughtfully designed patient recovery rooms ever seen in California.

    "Our goal at the SWMC,” Hino explains, “is to perfect the patient-centric experience. Our goal is to have an average wait time of 5 minutes from door to bed, and in most cases, if possible, immediate bedding.”

    The “patient-centric” experience is the key to what’s different, new, and exciting about Palm Drive. This approach of humanistic, quality local treatment is a welcome alternative to the institutional large city hospitals affiliated with multi-billion dollar bottom line-focused conglomerates (even non-profit ones) like the Kaiser and Sutter hospitals in Santa Rosa.

    In an era in which health care is driven to consolidation for “greater efficiencies,” many consumers of health care are feeling that these “efficiencies” are diminishing care and reducing human beings into depersonalized numbers. Because our system has never evolved into a Medicare-for-All insurance system that will let us choose our doctors, we have been driven to ever larger private insurance conglomerates that actually limit our choice of doctors—especially local ones.


    Ray Hino, CEO of Sonoma West Medical Center

    Nowadays, about the only provider choice that the vast majority of people with insurance can still make is which hospital we choose to go to when faced with a life-threatening emergency. That’s because insurers like Kaiser and Sutter and Blue Cross will always reimburse the hospital emergency rooms that save lives when treating things like heart attacks and sudden injuries.

    “Small hospitals can be much better at personalized, high quality care close to home," says Dan Smith, board chair and lead philanthropist of the SWMC. “Having close-by emergency care makes all the difference in the world when you have a life-threatening illness. It’s not just how close the hospital is; it’s how close the doctor is. If you go to a hospital and wait 4 hours and you have a heart condition, that’s not a good situation. You really need to be able to see a specialist immediately. The fact that you’re in a small hospital can mean you’re getting better care. It’s very personal, people pay a lot of attention to you, and you have more access to physicians.”

    Given the desire to “go local” for humanistic care, and the fact that the new SWMC will reopen with many of the same doctors who made Palm Drive the safest of more than 300 hospitals in the State of California (as rated by Consumer Reports), adding a no-wait emergency room and new patient-centric services make the reopening of the hospital the most important and exciting event in West County medical history.

    “I believe the new hospital will be successful,” says John Moise, a health care consultant who has held executive positions within California’s Health and Human Services Agency for 10 years. “Doing what it takes to become the hospital of choice makes the hospital much more desirable than before. Sonoma West Medical Center will be offering excellent medical and nursing care in a high quality personalized environment. Most of the people I know in Sonoma County prefer a smaller more personalized experience when the quality is equal to are higher than other alternatives.”

    “The North Bay’s patient-centric hospital of choice” might serve as the tagline for the Sonoma West Medical Center. Ray Hino observes that the SWMC is putting its money where its mouth is. “The premier in-hospital bed experience is going to include a private room with an exterior view,” Hino explains. “Most of our rooms have a view of a beautiful courtyard setting. In that private room there will be room for a guest chair. The guest chair can be folded out into a bed that guests will be able to sleep in, to allow them to be a comfort and a part of the healing process."

    In addition, Hino notes, guests will have a personalized mini iPad at their bedside, to be used not only for charting by the medical team, but also for Skyping with family members. Or even watching movies from Netflix.


    The dozens of hard working doctors, medical professionals and planners behind the SWMC have spent the past year thinking hard about what to keep from the Palm Drive tradition, and what needed improvement. The famous “pink ladies,” who have sadly been sidelined for a year, will certainly be back. They are retired local women who volunteer to connect with patients, on a personal and human level, during their time at the hospital. They will be augmented by new “patient navigator” personnel. These are trained professionals who will personally assist every patient through the complicated labyrinth of insurance billing and follow up care. Imagine such a helper presenting his or her card to you or a family member soon after arriving, with an email and phone number, saying, “Call me directly at this number so I can help you when you receive the bill.”

    Then there’s the food. The SWMC has hired Rob Hogencamp, the former lead chef of the CERES project, to run a cafeteria and restaurant that will offer patients and their guests organic, nutritious food from a menu carefully focused on health.

    Says Hino, “We intend to have the finest menu available with choices that are not normally found in a hospital setting and the opportunity for guests to be able to have a glass of wine if they choose. That’s what patient-centric means to us. It will be a complete experience unlike any that you will find in any other hospital in our region, if not the entire state.”

    The Sonoma West Medical center plans to open at the end of May. For most area residents who for the past year have had to go to Santa Rosa’s large city hospital emergency rooms, it will be a huge relief. “I’ve lived here for over 40 years, and for me, this is great,” said 88 year Rosie Bratton, a widow (and the neighbor of this reporter). Like thousands of seniors in the West County area, Bratton’s inconvenience and worry over accessing health care has increased significantly since Palm Drive closed. Recently, what had once been a simple request to a neighbor to drive five minutes and drop her off with the helpful “pink ladies” at Palm Drive Hopsital has become a major ordeal. Bratton recently needed to be driven more than 20 minutes to Kaiser, wait hours to be seen, then brought home to Sebastopol. It took her a half hour to find someone to help her: an 80-something retired friend who was able to commit the four hours that the trip and wait took for her.

    Rosy Bratton is relieved, and delighted that the Sonoma West Medical Center is reopening West County’s small hospital. She says, “I’m excited because there will be an emergency room again!”
    Last edited by Peacetown Jonathan; 05-27-2015 at 01:48 PM.
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    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    What a glowing review of our new hospital. You paint a picture of paradise. Are these the tricks of the trade that will keep our ER open and service our extensive community? I have my doubts. For instance, I can't help but wonder about all of the “patient-centric” benefits cited; private rooms with beautiful views, chairs converting to beds for overnight guests, organic menu meal choices, mini iPad's for Skyping and Netflix, just to name a few. Absolutely a fantastic improvement over efficiency-based large facilities serving the masses. But will these delightful homey & healthy upgrades be insurance approved line items or do they fall under the category of private pay? I suspect that precious few will have insurance coverage that will negotiate a higher rate of reimbursement to SWMC to account for the additional costs associated with these perks. That having been noted will these patient-centric benefits actually be optional extras available for a price? Where does that leave the average working class stiff who has trouble enough paying their insurance premiums? I don't know about you but if I'm in need of hospitalization I'm not looking to pony up extra cash so that my hospital experience will resemble a vacation at a 5 star hotel.

    Invoking the image of National Health Care you suggest that due to the continued refusal of a government funded “Medicare for All” system the only choices left to us regarding our health services are when we are in need of emergency care. This becomes an obvious segue demonstrating the value of SWMC's small but superior ER facility. While SWMC may in fact be the preferred ER destination the sad truth is that the limitations of our current health industry and the choices we have, or lack thereof, also apply to emergency treatment.

    Your hospital of choice must accept your insurance plan and more importantly your insurance plan must accept the hospital. Insurers such as Kaiser and Sutter are very specific regarding hospital facilities that are covered under their plans. No hospital will turn you away in an emergency but the question remains – if it is not an emergency that is life threatening to transport a given distance, who will pay the ER bill? Broken bones, stitches, even a severed limb are often not life threatening, particuarly when stabilized by the EMTs in route. One's insurance coverage frequently will dictate which ER facility is chosen in an emergency. SWMC may well be the cream of the crop but considering the fact that Kaiser is the number one health insurance provider in CA it seems unlikely that the vast majority of our West County residents will ever experience the bucolic health care heaven offered here. Which begs the question – in the working class world how will this sheik tag line and these non-covered patient-centric services keep the beds filled and the doors open?

    Currently the U.S. has an uninsured population of approximately 31 million, we pay double compared to any other industrialized nation for our healthcare and we are ranked number 37 in quality. Bottom line, I would have expected something with a little less of an aristocratic smell from this innovative conscientious community we are all so proud of belonging to and participating in. Rather than touting the added value puff products being offered why not note the high quality professional specialty medical services that will be available to everyone, regardless of economic means? Lacking any mention on this topic in your review of the facility and its services I went to SWMC's website. Unfortunately I could not find any information indicating whether or not this amazing team of assembled specialists will be accepting sliding scale and/or Medi-cal for all available services. Perhaps this is not a feature of SWMC. If so how sad for a community that gives so much lip-service to the concept of equality.

    So far it looks to me like Dan and his cronies have done a great job in creating a high-end elitist medical facility catering to the wealthy. If you have the cash to pay for the frills you certainly can get them at SWMC. Time will tell if this model is viable for the long haul or merely a wet dream ending in service of a small select few. Perhaps Sebastopol is in fact the perfect place for just such an experiment.


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan: View Post
    What’s New and Exciting About
    Sonoma West Hospital


    By Jonathan Greenberg
    For WaccoBB.net
    May 25, 2015


    ...
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  5. TopTop #3
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    What a glowing review of our new hospital. ...
    At least my tax dollars will benefit somebody, at least for a while.....Too bad I can't go there since I pay Kaiser $1587/mo.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-31-2015 at 09:58 AM.
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  6. TopTop #4
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    For god's sake lose the purple font if you want to be read.

    Hurts my eyes it does.

    Richard
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    What a glowing review of our new hospital. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 05-31-2015 at 09:57 AM.
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  8. TopTop #5
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    What a glowing review of our new hospital. You paint a picture of paradise. Are these the tricks of the trade that will keep our ER open and service our extensive community? I have my doubts....
    Rustie,

    We agree with everything you are saying about single payer and our #@%74# health system. It truly is a mess. Most doctors and hospitals spend tons of time and money trying to get paid instead of giving care.

    For the record, we are strong supporters of single payer Medicare for all. While there are definite shortcomings with Medicare, it functions at a much lower management cost than insurance companies (about 3%.) We also think that Medicare should be means tested so that the wealthy, who can, have to pay for it. We also support taxing capital gains as Medicare earnings just like wages and eliminating the cap on Medicare wages so that high earners pay more.

    "So far it looks to me like Dan and his cronies have done a great job in creating a high-end elitist medical facility catering to the wealthy. "

    Actually, all patients at Sonoma Medical Center will receive the same level of care regardless of insurance or ability to pay. From our perspective, private rooms, family sleep overs, beautiful gardens and nutritious food are not luxuries but basic necessities. What's more, SWMC will not bill patients who have no insurance any more than an insurance company would pay. SWMC is being opened to serve our community not the elite. We expect to accept all regional insurance but Kaiser and Sutter who have closed systems. This is not our choice, but theirs. (We will treat everyone and anyone in the Emergency Room and both Kaiser and Sutter will pay for emergencies.)

    "If you have the cash to pay for the frills you certainly can get them at SWMC."

    You apparently equate better hospital services with serving the wealthy but in reality, providing better services can be more cost effective when serving the entire community, here's how:

    a) It's easier to care for patients in private rooms. Patients can rest better when they have privacy and nurses can give them more individual attention, improving their transition to home.

    b) Having a family member (or two) stay with patients improves outcomes and helps monitor patients when nurses are not in the room. Patients are much more relaxed when they have loved ones close by and family members can get educated about how to care for loved ones when they return home.

    c) Providing great food costs a little more than the usual hospital crap but a lot of food goes to waste in hospitals because people aren't ready to eat at meal time or don't like what they get. So having patients order what they like is much more sensible.

    d) Good nutrition is directly related to wellness and patients who have had a major surgery or illness need to eat healthy food to recover. Serving them mac and cheese with green Jello really doesn’t cut it.

    e) Providing entertainment can also reduce stress and anxiety, conditions that trouble many patients when hospitalized. Next time you are ill, I highly recommend watching The Life of Brian, The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy or Charlie Chaplin flicks. It is hard to feel miserable when you are laughing.

    f) Providing easy access to loved ones far away can also be helpful for patients with serious health challenges who otherwise feel cut off from family and friends.

    One thing to be aware of is that hospitals are paid mostly based on the diagnosis, not how much care they provide. That means SWMC gets paid the same no matter who the patient is or how long they stay in the hospital. Hospitals are also penalized if patients are readmitted within 30 days (they don’t get paid for the readmission.) This means that helping people get well quickly and making sure they are ready to go home are important financial drivers for hospitals, not just something for the wealthy.

    What you also might not realize is that compensation from Medicare in the future will be partially based on patient satisfaction and clinical outcomes. That means that hospitals that provide better care and have happier patients will get paid better by Medicare and insurers. So it makes financial sense to deliver the best care possible in a patient centric environment to get paid better.

    All that being said, we do need to attract patients for elective surgery in order to support services like 24/7 ER. The best way to do this is to have great docs and excellent care both clinically and personally. So it makes sense to be the hospital of choice for the specialties that we can excel at.

    Here’s a few other points I’d like to make:

    1. If you have no insurance and go to a hospital, you get a bill that is grossly inflated, not what an insurance company or Medicare would pay for the same service. Sometimes you are told that the hospital will discount the bill if you pay early, but usually they do not discount down to the level an insurer would pay. SWMCs policy will be to bill cash payers the same rate an insurer would pay. We call this truth in billing.
    2. If you can’t pay your bill, most hospitals will sell your account to a collection agency, who will hassle you and ruin your credit. SWMC will not do this. We do not believe people should have their credit ruined because of illness or injury. SWMC will work with people to develop a payment plan or discount the bill. We call this humane.

    Before you assume that we are elitists who wish to serve the wealthy, I invite you to spend your weekend with us painting walls, scrubbing floors and working in the hospital gardens, which Joan and I did today and have done every weekend in recent times. We will be at the hospital all day Saturday and Sunday and there is plenty of work, so come and join us!

    Best Regards,

    Dan and Joan
    Last edited by Barry; 05-31-2015 at 12:04 PM.
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  9. TopTop #6
    kpage9's Avatar
    kpage9
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    With thanks to Rustie for putting it so well and so thoroughly. I wondered too, when I read about the new version of the hospital, HOW ON GOD'S (formerly) GREEN EARTH will this be paid for! It does seem like a most conspicuous absence--a web page that does not mention sliding scale or Medi-Cal.

    I really hope this is an incorrect impression--the Sonoma Mission Inn of medical care, eagerly await further illumination.

    Kathy
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    What a glowing review of our new hospital. You paint a picture of paradise. Are these the tricks of the trade that will keep our ER open and service our extensive community? I have my doubts. ...
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    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Hi Dan,

    I appreciate your reply. Truthfully I would have preferred some direct responses to my questions and points rather than the abundance of information focused on selling the virtues of SWMC's healthy healing protocol, but thank you to take the time. For the sake of clarity I would like to readdress several points...

    First I feel it is important to mention that there is a subtle but important misrepresentation in your statement that both Kaiser & Sutter will pay for emergencies. Without defining the terms of emergencies allowable for reimbursement by Kaiser & Sutter you are implying that anyone with either of those plans may come through SWMC's ER doors for treatment and can rest assured that their insurers will pick up the associated costs. This in fact is not so and I suspect you are well aware of the distinctions. To imply that all ER services will unequivocally be reimbursed by these two insurance providers is negligent. In short, Sutter will cover “legitimate” emergent or urgent care at an outside facility regardless of the distance to a preferred provider. Reimbursement of ER services by a Kaiser plan will be determined by the severity of the emergency. Additionally, with either plan, once stabilized, coverage of hospitalization if needed, may likely require transport to the insurers' preferred facility if the patient expects the resultant hospitalization to be covered by their plan. These are important distinctions that should not be carelessly glossed over.

    On to overlooked questions. Will all services available at the medical center, hospital services as well as the “specialty institutes”, be accepting Medi-cal &/or sliding scale? You frequently mentioned Medicare but you neglected to address the direct question regarding Medi-cal and sliding scale. This of course is also relevant to your “truth in billing” policy.

    Kudos by the way for the decision to bill uninsured patients at the “insurance rate”. But the question remains, which insurance rate? Medi-cal for instance pays a much lower rate than Blue Cross. Which of these rates would you apply to a cash paying patient? As you can see the unanswered sliding scale question resurfaces.

    I agree with you, working with people to develop a payment plan or discount their bill is humane and I applaud you for the decision to include this in your billing policies. I do feel compelled however to point out that most hospitals have similar billing practices. When approached, hospitals would rather develop a payment plan than sell your account to a collection agency as you have suggested. Nonetheless this misleading comparison does not alter your humane, truth in billing intentions. One additional question on the subject, will these billing policies apply to all services and institutes at SWMC?

    Your comment that hospitals are paid based on diagnosis rather than quantity of care provided is not exactly the whole picture. While it is true that the diagnosis will dictate the parameters of allowable treatment including the number of in-patient days permitted for recovery, each and every service provided is a line item that is adjusted by the contracted rate of reimbursement. I can say with confidence, costs for private rooms, organic meals and Netflix will not be covered.

    That having been said it appears to me, after parsing through your eloquent promotional post, that you expect to take a loss on your “patient-centric” hospital and hope to make up the difference attracting wealthy elites to your “specialty institutes” for elective surgeries. If this is in fact your game plan I do not personally have a problem with this agenda. On the other hand I do have concerns regarding the viability over the long haul of this concept. Have you done a feasibility study and a budget analysis to determine if this model is sustainable beyond 3 to 5 years? As a taxpayer who will be funding this project to the collective tune of millions of dollars I think it fair that you provide us with your projected financial statements, the basis for your projections and all substantial data you have collected to demonstrate the soundness of your hospital plan as a long term model. I do see on the SWMC website the “business plan”. Unfortunately, in my opinion, it is primarily a talking points PR piece with several slick graphs on projections that appear to be pulled out of thin air.

    Obviously at this point the hospital is a done deal. That was clear when the only person asking for a sound financial assesment and business plan was voted off the Palm Drive District board and replaced by two insiders from the then named Foundation, aka SWMC. Regardless, if this plan has been adequately vetted and stands the test of time then we will all be winners. Of course if this is a short lived pet project built in service of a small few the test of time might not have been a consideration in moving forward. Under those circumstances I would expect the architects of such an ill conceived venture utilizing public funds to be held accountable.

    As an aside I find your attempt to remove yourself from association with “elitists who wish to serve the wealthy” as comical. Drawing attention to the fact that you and your wife have been scrubbing floors and painting walls at SWMC does not change the fact that you are one of Sonoma County's wealthier elites. Furthermore, the business plan for the facility that you are pridefully scrubbing and painting seems to be based primarily on revenues generated in service of the wealthy. What a shame that your hospital agenda is not as equally transparent.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan: View Post
    Rustie,

    We agree with everything you are saying about single payer and our #@%74# health system..............
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  13. TopTop #8
    gypsey's Avatar
    gypsey
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    I really wish I could have read through this post, but the tiny font and pale purple color made it impossible. Please post in a normal size font and easy to read color, so that we can learn from your posts and respond.
    Thank you.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    Hi Dan,

    I appreciate your reply. Truthfully I would have preferred some direct responses to my questions and points rather than ...
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  15. TopTop #9
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Rustie,

    Some answers (as best I can) to your questions:

    Will all services available at the medical center, hospital services as well as the “specialty institutes”, be accepting Medi-cal &/or sliding scale? You frequently mentioned Medicare but you neglected to address the direct question regarding Medi-cal and sliding scale. This of course is also relevant to your “truth in billing” policy.


    The hospital will accept Medi-Cal for all services. At present, there is not a 'sliding scale' policy in place but as stated earlier a policy to discount to insurance rates. More on that below.

    Kudos by the way for the decision to bill uninsured patients at the “insurance rate”. But the question remains, which insurance rate? Medi-cal for instance pays a much lower rate than Blue Cross. Which of these rates would you apply to a cash paying patient? As you can see the unanswered sliding scale question resurfaces.

    The policy will be to discount to average insurance rates including Medi-Cal and Medicare. This will be close to Medicare.

    One additional question on the subject, will these billing policies apply to all services and institutes at SWMC?

    The policy will apply to all hospital services.The institute physicians will be setting their own policies for their services. (SWMC is providing offices and other services for a fee from physicians but they will be managing their own practices.)

    I can say with confidence, costs for private rooms, organic meals and Netflix will not be covered.

    You may be confident but you are wrong for all of the reasons I explained previously. These and other services will be part of basic service for all patients. We will have two rooms that are doubles but these will be for short term observation, not overnight under normal circumstances.

    That having been said it appears to me, after parsing through your eloquent promotional post, that you expect to take a loss on your “patient-centric” hospital and hope to make up the difference attracting wealthy elites to your “specialty institutes” for elective surgeries.

    I don't think I have used the term 'wealthy elites' in any context or even implied it in any way. What I said was that we will be providing elective surgery for people from a broader region than west county. Those patients will come with the same insurance (or lack thereof) as everybody else so there is not a bias toward wealthy patients, this is only your assumption.

    As an aside I find your attempt to remove yourself from association with “elitists who wish to serve the wealthy” as comical.
    Drawing attention to the fact that you and your wife have been scrubbing floors and painting walls at SWMC does not change the fact that you are one of Sonoma County's wealthier elites.

    Glad to see you have a sense of humor. Your attempt to characterize us as 'elitists who wish to serve the wealthy' is one of the funniest things I have heard in a long time.

    e·lit·ist noun
    a person who believes that a system or society should be ruled or dominated by an elite.
    synonyms: aristocrat, blue blood; snob

    I have been called a lot of things, but this is the first time for being called an elitist. I suppose if I am I should buy a yacht instead of reopening our hospital, it would be much cheaper anyway. Or perhaps a villa on the Riviera, it must be very nice there this time of year.

    Seems out of character to be scrubbing floors and painting walls now that you mention it. And funny wearing old worn out jeans and driving a 13 year old car and living in our funky little house we built in 1970 with savings from my $400 monthly paycheck. And, my God, we must be missing all those elite gatherings of the wealthy at the golf course or wherever they meet.

    In the meantime, I would advise giving up on the mind reading, especially from a distance. I have never met anyone who was good at it and it does tend to distort your reality some. When you want to know someone's motivations, the best test I have found is to ask them and listen to the answer. It's not perfect but comes as close as you can get.

    Best Regards

    Dan
    Last edited by Barry; 06-03-2015 at 10:58 AM.
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  16. TopTop #10
    Gail Raborn's Avatar
    Gail Raborn
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by gypsey: View Post
    I really wish I could have read through this post, but the tiny font and pale purple color made it impossible. Please post in a normal size font and easy to read color, so that we can learn from your posts and respond.
    Thank you.


    Hi Rusty: you make a lot of good points - but - I also want to suggest LARGER FONT if not a darker ink. It is hard to read, truly; perhaps put out the same letter in a more legible way? Still - you're bringing up a lot of important concerns about money/insurance/etc. that I'm curious about, too.

    But I am also curious why you insist that Dan Smith and Joan Marler are part of the local "elites"? what does that mean exactly? there are a lot of folks around here with money - is everyone who's well-to-do automatically part of some special "elite" group that's different than you and me? or you think, they think they are superior to us lesser mortals? Sounds like you don't know these two folks: if you ever got to know them and visited their home, you'd realize they live a rather simple life-style - no grandeur, nothing fancy, nothing outrageous...and their lives are very busy with their passions of a lovely restaurant, Dan's work with telemedicine, Joan's Phd studies with archeomythology, their gardens - and of course, helping create our new hospital! As people, other than both being two of the most kind, brilliant and selfless folks I've ever met, they're amazingly down to earth and not at all pretentious. So please drop the "elitist" bit. You don't know what you're talking about.
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  17. TopTop #11

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Dan

    Thank you for your response. It sounds like the specialty institutes will establish their own insurance acceptance parameters just as they will be setting their own billing policies - correct? Am I also accurately interpreting that the hospital discount rates for uninsured cash paying patients will be determined by averaging the different insurance reimbursement rates and billing that average to those uninsured cash payers? Will the cash discount be applied to uninsured patients who are also in need of a payment plan? And finally on this topic, why not just bill uninsured patients the Medi-Cal rate, which of course would be the least expensive?

    I understood you the first time regarding basic service for all patients. It is clear that you intend to accept as payment in full, for all patient-centric hospital services, the allowable insurance reimbursement rate. My point is only that the additional costs to provide these services will not be accounted for in the insurers reimbursement to you. This brings us to the salient point, you expect to take a loss on these services, at least when provided in connection with insurance covered procedures, and make up the difference via the specialty institutes.

    It appears that these specialty institutes will be independent renters whose patients provide no direct economic benefit to the hospital, except to the extent that they utilize hospital services. Under that arrangement it would seem that your intent to cover your expected hospital losses via these specialty services would be from full charge, full pay, non-insurance claimable services. You know the ones, those provided to all the non-elite folks without much money who will come from a broader region for elective surgeries that are usually very expensive and typically not covered by health insurance. Am I on track? You did say in your first post that “we do need to attract patients for elective surgery in order to support services like 24/7 ER.” So I ask you, would the above be an accurate interpretation of the workings of that plan or am I not framing it allusively enough for you?

    Dan, you are obviously a very educated and intelligent person This elite issue has become absurd. To begin with, I never categorized you as an “elitist who wishes to serve the wealthy”. That was your quote in your first post. My first use of the word elitist was not ascribed to you, “looks to me like Dan and his cronies have done a great job in creating a high-end elitist medical facility catering to the wealthy.” In this context I have clearly used the word elitist in reference to the facility not you or your cronies. You misrepresented my use of the word elitist in ascribing it to yourself, a subtle but important distinction. In my second post, I was quoting you, as should have been understood by the use of quotation marks. It was evident that you had taken the leap from my comment about the facility and associated yourself with the term. Further it was evident that you were attempting to remove yourself from that self-ascribed association by letting us know that you scrub & paint. My comment that scrubbing & painting does not alter the fact that “you are one of Sonoma County's wealthier elites”, is the only reference I have made associating you as a person in a group or class of persons who enjoy superior intellectual, social or economic status, which is the definition of elite.

    Personally I have no knowledge of your social status and I can only guess by your use of language and writing skills as to your intellectual status. Your economic status however is apparent. Considering the multimillion dollar investments you have made into the hospital, both past and present incarnations, the fact that you are the primary investor in E-Health Records International, your cloud-based medical records company marketing your HarmoniMD software, your 30 acre West County farm, your elegant high-end restaurant and your bio statement which references you as an angel investor, a group of people that comprise as little as 1% of the US population and maintain a net worth in excess of one million dollars, I think it fair to ascribe to you the term elite. I'm sorry if reality offends you.

    I do not profess to be a mind reader nor do I attempt to practice the art form as you have suggested, I simply take note of the facts and connect the dots. For instance, your comment regarding distortion of reality, perhaps it's self reflective. Distortion is seemingly something you are familiar with as evidenced, in this thread, by your numerous misleading and misrepresented presentations of several key pieces of information. As a final observation I would recommend that when you are making suggestions about asking questions and listening as a method of ascertaining one's motivations, you consider answering questions when asked. I am still waiting to hear a response from you regarding the study and analysis used to determine the long term viability of your hospital plan. Is there a reason you have not addressed this point? I have brought it up on two separate occasions. Perhaps your idea of simply asking to obtain information is not as effective as you would like us to believe. But since you're appearing to be requesting direct questions, here's another one: What benefits can EHRI, OffSiteCare and yourself personally, expect to see by the first U.S. implementation of your HarmoniMD software in SWMC?



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan: View Post
    Rustie,

    Some answers (as best I can) to your questions:

    Will all services available at the medical center, hospital services as well as the “specialty institutes”, be accepting Medi-cal &/or sliding scale? You frequently mentioned Medicare but you neglected to address the direct question regarding Medi-cal and sliding scale. This of course is also relevant to your “truth in billing” policy.


    The hospital will accept Medi-Cal for all services. At present, there is not a 'sliding scale' policy in place but as stated earlier a policy to discount to insurance rates. More on that below.

    Kudos by the way for the decision to bill uninsured patients at the “insurance rate”. But the question remains, which insurance rate? Medi-cal for instance pays a much lower rate than Blue Cross. Which of these rates would you apply to a cash paying patient? As you can see the unanswered sliding scale question resurfaces.

    The policy will be to discount to average insurance rates including Medi-Cal and Medicare. This will be close to Medicare.

    One additional question on the subject, will these billing policies apply to all services and institutes at SWMC?

    The policy will apply to all hospital services.The institute physicians will be setting their own policies for their services. (SWMC is providing offices and other services for a fee from physicians but they will be managing their own practices.)

    I can say with confidence, costs for private rooms, organic meals and Netflix will not be covered.

    You may be confident but you are wrong for all of the reasons I explained previously. These and other services will be part of basic service for all patients. We will have two rooms that are doubles but these will be for short term observation, not overnight under normal circumstances.

    That having been said it appears to me, after parsing through your eloquent promotional post, that you expect to take a loss on your “patient-centric” hospital and hope to make up the difference attracting wealthy elites to your “specialty institutes” for elective surgeries.

    I don't think I have used the term 'wealthy elites' in any context or even implied it in any way. What I said was that we will be providing elective surgery for people from a broader region than west county. Those patients will come with the same insurance (or lack thereof) as everybody else so there is not a bias toward wealthy patients, this is only your assumption.

    As an aside I find your attempt to remove yourself from association with “elitists who wish to serve the wealthy” as comical.
    Drawing attention to the fact that you and your wife have been scrubbing floors and painting walls at SWMC does not change the fact that you are one of Sonoma County's wealthier elites.

    Glad to see you have a sense of humor. Your attempt to characterize us as 'elitists who wish to serve the wealthy' is one of the funniest things I have heard in a long time.

    e·lit·ist noun
    a person who believes that a system or society should be ruled or dominated by an elite.
    synonyms: aristocrat, blue blood; snob

    I have been called a lot of things, but this is the first time for being called an elitist. I suppose if I am I should buy a yacht instead of reopening our hospital, it would be much cheaper anyway. Or perhaps a villa on the Riviera, it must be very nice there this time of year.

    Seems out of character to be scrubbing floors and painting walls now that you mention it. And funny wearing old worn out jeans and driving a 13 year old car and living in our funky little house we built in 1970 with savings from my $400 monthly paycheck. And, my God, we must be missing all those elite gatherings of the wealthy at the golf course or wherever they meet.

    In the meantime, I would advise giving up on the mind reading, especially from a distance. I have never met anyone who was good at it and it does tend to distort your reality some. When you want to know someone's motivations, the best test I have found is to ask them and listen to the answer. It's not perfect but comes as close as you can get.

    Best Regards

    Dan
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  18. TopTop #12
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Rustie,

    Rusty, I think you made clear that you wished Jim Horn got elected and the hospital stayed closed. You are certainly welcome to this opinion but at this point, it is not terribly relevant. Attacking me is a convenient method of trying to establish your position but we are not opening the Dan Smith Memorial Hospital, we are opening Sonoma West Medical Center, our community hospital with the help of hundreds of people from all walks of life, rich and poor, young and old. I am only a small part of the puzzle and becoming less important every day. What happens next is up to the doctors, nurses, the hospital board and the administration, not me.

    Because it might be useful to others here are answers to some of your questions:

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    Thank you for your response. It sounds like the specialty institutes will establish their own insurance acceptance parameters just as they will be setting their own billing policies - correct? Am I also accurately interpreting that the hospital discount rates for uninsured cash paying patients will be determined by averaging the different insurance reimbursement rates and billing that average to those uninsured cash payers? Will the cash discount be applied to uninsured patients who are also in need of a payment plan? And finally on this topic, why not just bill uninsured patients the Medi-Cal rate, which of course would be the least expensive?

    It is important to understand that Medi-Cal reimbursements in general do not cover the cost of care. The other thing to understand is that not all uninsured are poor and unable to pay for the cost of their care. Medicare rates come close to covering the cost of care and are therefore a more appropriate billing rate for the uninsured.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    I understood you the first time regarding basic service for all patients. It is clear that you intend to accept as payment in full, for all patient-centric hospital services, the allowable insurance reimbursement rate. My point is only that the additional costs to provide these services will not be accounted for in the insurers reimbursement to you. This brings us to the salient point, you expect to take a loss on these services, at least when provided in connection with insurance covered procedures, and make up the difference via the specialty institutes.
    We don't believe that the 'additional services' will add significant cost and their value will be in better care and a more pleasant patient experience, which will in turn create additional revenue.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    It appears that these specialty institutes will be independent renters whose patients provide no direct economic benefit to the hospital, except to the extent that they utilize hospital services. Under that arrangement it would seem that your intent to cover your expected hospital losses via these specialty services would be from full charge, full pay, non-insurance claimable services. You know the ones, those provided to all the non-elite folks without much money who will come from a broader region for elective surgeries that are usually very expensive and typically not covered by health insurance. Am I on track? You did say in your first post that “we do need to attract patients for elective surgery in order to support services like 24/7 ER.” So I ask you, would the above be an accurate interpretation of the workings of that plan or am I not framing it allusively enough for you?
    I can't answer this because I don't understand what "full charge, full pay, non-insurance claimable services" are.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    Dan, you are obviously a very educated and intelligent person This elite issue has become absurd. To begin with, I never categorized you as an “elitist who wishes to serve the wealthy”. That was your quote in your first post. My first use of the word elitist was not ascribed to you, “looks to me like Dan and his cronies have done a great job in creating a high-end elitist medical facility catering to the wealthy.” In this context I have clearly used the word elitist in reference to the facility not you or your cronies. You misrepresented my use of the word elitist in ascribing it to yourself, a subtle but important distinction. In my second post, I was quoting you, as should have been understood by the use of quotation marks. It was evident that you had taken the leap from my comment about the facility and associated yourself with the term. Further it was evident that you were attempting to remove yourself from that self-ascribed association by letting us know that you scrub & paint. My comment that scrubbing & painting does not alter the fact that “you are one of Sonoma County's wealthier elites”, is the only reference I have made associating you as a person in a group or class of persons who enjoy superior intellectual, social or economic status, which is the definition of elite.

    Personally I have no knowledge of your social status and I can only guess by your use of language and writing skills as to your intellectual status. Your economic status however is apparent. Considering the multimillion dollar investments you have made into the hospital, both past and present incarnations, the fact that you are the primary investor in E-Health Records International, your cloud-based medical records company marketing your HarmoniMD software, your 30 acre West County farm, your elegant high-end restaurant and your bio statement which references you as an angel investor, a group of people that comprise as little as 1% of the US population and maintain a net worth in excess of one million dollars, I think it fair to ascribe to you the term elite. I'm sorry if reality offends you.


    I do not profess to be a mind reader nor do I attempt to practice the art form as you have suggested, I simply take note of the facts and connect the dots. For instance, your comment regarding distortion of reality, perhaps it's self reflective. Distortion is seemingly something you are familiar with as evidenced, in this thread, by your numerous misleading and misrepresented presentations of several key pieces of information. As a final observation I would recommend that when you are making suggestions about asking questions and listening as a method of ascertaining one's motivations, you consider answering questions when asked. I am still waiting to hear a response from you regarding the study and analysis used to determine the long term viability of your hospital plan. Is there a reason you have not addressed this point? I have brought it up on two separate occasions. Perhaps your idea of simply asking to obtain information is not as effective as you would like us to believe.
    And your point is what?
    Dan Smith is an imperfect being with money?
    Not sure what this has to do with our hospital but I admit it!
    I don't always jump when Rusty says jump? Also agree to that!
    (I think the business plan speaks for itself so I saw no reason to respond to this.)
    You want someone who is has no money leading the effort to reopen the hospital?
    (Actually, there are LOTS of people involved in this effort, many who are volunteering their time, a resource more precious than money.)

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    But since you're appearing to be requesting direct questions, here's another one: What benefits can EHRI, OffSiteCare and yourself personally, expect to see by the first U.S. implementation of your HarmoniMD software in SWMC?
    OffSiteCare, Dr. Gude's telemedicine company will be paid for providing medical services to SWMC. I don't know the details of this since I was not involved in the process, only Dr. Gude and the OffSiteCare CEO were . I receive no compensation from OffSiteCare, which has barely covered its cost of providing telemedicine services to rural hospitals in recent years.

    I have no way of knowing whether EHRI will ever benefit from the implementation of HarmoniMD at SWMC or even how one would measure the benefit if one occurred. EHRI has been building the HarmoniMD system for years and is already working in a number of countries around the world so the business is not dependent on SWMC. As the CEO for EHRI, I receive a salary of $2 a year (up from $1 a year). I suppose the board might give me a raise to $3 a year if the SWMC implementation goes well but then I might get fired if it doesn't.

    But for the sake of argument, let's assume that EHRI does benefit from implementing its software for free at SWMC in much the same way that companies all over the US benefit by supporting public radio and other charities. Would this be a problem or would it create more opportunity for capital for our hospital?

    What I do know is that EHRI is providing a free service that normally costs well over $1M in startup and at least $100,000 a year in maintenance and other services and that SWMC simply does not have the money to pay for these services, at least at present. You can look at the Palm Drive financials to see that the McKesson implementation (which was basically a disaster) cost well over $2M and basically drove the hospital into the ground.

    Another thing I know is that there is an incalculable benefit to the community to have a hospital both in dollars and lives and that many people and businesses are already benefitting from our efforts. We have already spent $2.5 million on preparing to open the hospital, much of it with local businesses and hiring local people. All of them have benefitted as have the many lunch places near the hospital, the local motels, and the city itself.

    Best Regards,

    Dan
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  20. TopTop #13
    Peacetown Jonathan's Avatar
    Investigative Reporter

    Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprising

    I appreciate Dan taking the time to provide a point by point response, and for his and Joan's generosity in sacrificing so much time and money to restore an emergency room for ALL of us in West County.

    Rustie appears to have taken on the baton for the marathon vendetta to malign Dan Smith and his partner in philanthropy Joan Marler. I have written about this vendetta here on Wacco before.

    Rustie does a great qualifying round for the Jim Horn deception team with this dandy: My first use of the word elitist was not ascribed to you, “looks to me like Dan and his cronies have done a great job in creating a high-end elitist medical facility catering to the wealthy.” In this context I have clearly used the word elitist in reference to the facility not you or your cronies. You misrepresented my use of the word elitist in ascribing it to yourself, a subtle but important distinction.

    A subtle but important distinction? Really?

    There is nothing elitist about reopening an emergency room to serve the people of Sonoma County. What was elitist was the legally questionable closed door decision, without public debate as clearly required by the Brown Act, made by Nancy Dobbs and the past Palm Drive Board majority (Chris Dawson, Sandra Bodley and Marsha Sue Lustig), to close the emergency room. This decision was made without consulting a single doctor, community member, or business leader. Without a public meeting advising those of us whose tax dollars have paid for this hospital for years, and whose health and indeed very lives were jeopardized by this decision. As advised by a secretly selected cadre of out of town $4,000 dollar a day health industry consultants so elitist that they also never spoke to a hopspital employee, doctor, local hospital expert or member of the community. Along with a $500 an hour attorney whose law firm, though not disclosed to the public at the time, also conveniently represented bond trustee Wells Fargo Bank--as I reported here last year.

    Rustie, it seems, has also chosen to pick up the tired "prove the plan works" bullshit, perhaps because the other "keep it closed" boosters in our community who have repeated it in the past have been so thoroughly discredited. As I have noted in the past, it is impossible to "prove" any plan, because by nature, all plans are hypothetical, about something that is planned for the future. Rustie writes that the plan, with its extensive and persuasive projections that took hospital finance experts months to complete,
    "is primarily a talking points PR piece with several slick graphs on projections that appear to be pulled out of thin air."

    On one hand, Rustie complains that the non-ER facilities might make money for the hospital, to help subsidize the emergency room, and then professes to worry how our tax dollars will be used (a worry she apparently did not have when those same tax dollars would have been used to NOT provide us with the emergency room and hospital they were created to fund).

    Rustie trots out the absurd, hateful Dan Smith "conflict of interest" diatribe that I first heard Nancy Dobbs, then chair of the Palm Drive District Board, voice at the April, 2014 meeting in which she led a vote to close the hospital and reject a plan to keep it open. To continue to suggest that the person who, with his wife, is responsible for sacrificing thousands of hours of time and millions of dollars of cash to reopen OUR PUBLIC hospital, is doing it for personal financial gain is an insult to the intelligence of our community.

    Former Palm Drive District Board Chair Dobbs and three other members of that Board endorsed Jim Horn's candidacy not because he would help reopen the hospital. But because they knew that he was committed to their misguided and irresponsible choice to close it, and to keep it closed.

    Jim Horn stated at a public District Health Board meeting earlier in the year that he did not think the hospital should reopen until the bankruptcy had been fully paid off. Given that the hospital's license suspension expired after one year, this would have meant never. Even though under Chapter 9 federal bankruptcy law for municipalities, judges have no authority to force hospitals to close to pay creditors. Or to garnish tax revenues required to provide municipal services, like hospitals.

    Unfortunately, neither Jim Horn, nor his political supporters (who, sadly, included all five of Sebastopol's current City Council members), had the integrity to share this "no reopening until the creditors are paid off" opinion with voters before the election. Rustie endorses Horn's excuses when she notes that "the only person asking for a sound financial assesment and business plan was voted off the Palm Drive District board," seeking to perpetuate the deception that Jim Horn was voted off the Board because he wanted to do the responsible thing--which, to Horn and Rustie, was to drain our tax dollars while refusing to reopen the emergency room.

    Thankfully, We, the People of West Sonoma County, saw through this deception. And voted for the Doc and the Cop last November, to reopen our hospital.

    Last edited by Barry; 06-09-2015 at 03:02 PM.
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  22. TopTop #14
    Gail Raborn's Avatar
    Gail Raborn
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Jonathan - thanks so much for your careful and thorough reply to Rustie's vendetta to discredit Dan, Joan and the new hospital that's a-birthing at this very moment in Sebastopol. You put together many vital points that show her as the horsefly that she is, wanting to cause pain, with no real desire to create true clarity for anyone concerned about payment options at SWMC.

    Rustie just seems to want to sow more seeds of confusion, wrong info, and argument. I wonder about her motives: and how much her "elite envy" plays into this? for I know that when "The lady doth protest too much", it can be a cover for what that person desires for themself, but lack...hmmmm.....I wonder what is HER financial situation? and HER insurance coverage?

    Or is she a landowner in the Russian River Corridor unhappy about her parcel taxes?

    Whatever: I wish Rustie would drop the elite garbage and realize we're all just people trying to do the best we can to make the world a better place, regardless of income levels. We're incredibly fortunate in this area to have a few folks with the money to invest in saving lives through their donations of money, time, and energy to create a new hospital with a state-of-the-art emergency room! After all, someday the life that new hospital saves may be Rustie's own, her kids, family or friends....

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan;192180...[SIZE=4:
    Rustie appears to have taken on the baton for the marathon vendetta to malign Dan Smith and his partner in philanthropy Joan Marler. I have written about this vendetta here on Wacco before. ...[/SIZE]
    Last edited by Barry; 06-10-2015 at 01:17 PM.
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  24. TopTop #15
    Goat Rock Ukulele's Avatar
    Goat Rock Ukulele
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    My brother Dan and his wife Joan elitist and building a hospital for their elite friends?

    I've know Dan since the day I was born 62 years ago and Joan close to 40. Elitist they are not. Our parents where hard working working class people who lived in a tent for two years while building their own home because they couldn't afford a home any other way. You had to go into the closet to turn on my bedroom light when I was a kid, our mother did the wiring, at least the house didn't burn down. During the leanest times our mother scavenged discarded food behind the local market.

    Our parents were involved in civil rights, keeping PGE from building a reactor at Bodega Head and many other community betterment issues. I see Dan and Joan as continuing that tradition of public involvement . They are certainly not elitist. I don't think either one of them could stand to be in the same room with the wealthy elite for more than five minutes unless they are trying to get them to pony up for the hospital. My brother Dan and Joan would likely consider it the height of vulgarity to lavish their wealth on themselves when it could be spent enriching the community, In this case a life saving hospital.
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  26. TopTop #16
    rossmen
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    you are shooting the messenger. lots of good well intentioned people disagree about a complicated effort. a sebastopol hospital supported by the current healthcare district is geographically elitist. nobody knows if the effort will succeed and history does not bode well. truth hurts when high on hope.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Gail Raborn: View Post
    Jonathan - thanks so much for your careful and thorough reply to Rustie's vendetta to discredit Dan, Joan and the new hospital that's a-birthing at this very moment in Sebastopol. You put together many vital points that show her as the horsefly that she is, wanting to cause pain, with no real desire to create true clarity for anyone concerned about payment options at SWMC.

    Rustie just seems to want to sow more seeds of confusion, wrong info, and argument. I wonder about her motives: and how much her "elite envy" plays into this? for I know that when "The lady doth protest too much", it can be a cover for what that person desires for themself, but lack...hmmmm.....I wonder what is HER financial situation? and HER insurance coverage?

    Or is she a landowner in the Russian River Corridor unhappy about her parcel taxes?

    Whatever: I wish Rustie would drop the elite garbage and realize we're all just people trying to do the best we can to make the world a better place, regardless of income levels. We're incredibly fortunate in this area to have a few folks with the money to invest in saving lives through their donations of money, time, and energy to create a new hospital with a state-of-the-art emergency room! After all, someday the life that new hospital saves may be Rustie's own, her kids, family or friends....
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  28. TopTop #17
    Gail Raborn's Avatar
    Gail Raborn
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rossmen: View Post
    you are shooting the messenger. lots of good well intentioned people disagree about a complicated effort. a sebastopol hospital supported by the current healthcare district is geographically elitist. nobody knows if the effort will succeed and history does not bode well. truth hurts when high on hope.
    When the messenger is insulting, makes personal attacks intended to cause pain, and gives distorted or simply wrong information, perhaps it's time for them to be shot. Or at the least, stood up to.

    I fully support fair, polite discussion and argument about the hospital; I'm well aware of the dismal past history of the old Palm Drive Hospital. But this is a new endeavor with a very new approach, new leaders (there are many highly skilled people involved in the creation and management of SWMC than Dan Smith, though folks seem to forget this), new business plan - don't judge SWMC by the history of Palm Drive.

    Sure, no one can guarantee success - but trying to destroy it without giving it a chance seems to me not only very negative, but silly. Why kill it before it's had a chance to prove itself? What can be possibly lost by supporting it? I'm a very pragmatic person: it's not blind hope that makes me an enthusiastic supporter of SWMC. It's my awareness of the outrageous talent and skills of the new medical staff (and amazingly talented old staff that have been rehired), plus the clear minded business leaders/organizers that will run the business part of the new hospital. Believe me, the folks putting all this together are VERY aware of the dangers of failure, and would be very blind not to have learned from the mistakes that caused Palm Drive to fall into bankruptcy twice. I trust the people I've talked to over the past year who are determined not to fail.

    What I see, in truth, is a Phoenix rising from the ashes! And my gut intuition says it will fly, both well, and high. If you don't see the same, I'm very sad for you. Just don't try to kill it before it's even born.
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  30. TopTop #18
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Gail Raborn: View Post
    When the messenger is insulting, makes personal attacks intended to cause pain, and gives distorted or simply wrong information, perhaps it's time for them to be shot. Or at the least, stood up to.
    Gail,

    Please no shooting!
    I am a pacifist.

    Dan
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  32. TopTop #19
    Icssoma's Avatar
    Icssoma
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    i think your post would be more readable if you just enforced the positive about someone's post, & the facts, or your opinions re specifics.
    if you love the hospital & think its great talk about the specifics.
    if you don't like how others are criticizing it, how about abstaining from the tactics you find offensive.
    wouldn't it be better to be above the fray, & make the conversation a healthier one?
    i have opted out from the hospital discussion as it seems full of campaigning, & attacks if one doesn't agree. would love to see constructive discussion.
    have heard from a number of business people who are afraid to speak out against it.
    does anyone really want to be a part of a diatribe, on either side? let's be "really west county", talk about the issues, agreements & disagreements.
    i believe we can do so much better.


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Gail Raborn: View Post
    Jonathan - thanks so much for your careful and thorough reply to Rustie's vendetta to discredit Dan, Joan and the new hospital that's a-birthing at this very moment in Sebastopol. You put together many vital points that show her as the horsefly that she is, wanting to cause pain, with no real desire to create true clarity for anyone concerned about payment options at SWMC.

    Rustie just seems to want to sow more seeds of confusion, wrong info, and argument. I wonder about her motives: and how much her "elite envy" plays into this? for I know that when "The lady doth protest too much", it can be a cover for what that person desires for themself, but lack...hmmmm.....I wonder what is HER financial situation? and HER insurance coverage?

    Or is she a landowner in the Russian River Corridor unhappy about her parcel taxes?

    Whatever: I wish Rustie would drop the elite garbage and realize we're all just people trying to do the best we can to make the world a better place, regardless of income levels. We're incredibly fortunate in this area to have a few folks with the money to invest in saving lives through their donations of money, time, and energy to create a new hospital with a state-of-the-art emergency room! After all, someday the life that new hospital saves may be Rustie's own, her kids, family or friends....
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  33. Gratitude expressed by 4 members:

  34. TopTop #20
    Gail Raborn's Avatar
    Gail Raborn
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma: View Post
    i think your post would be more readable if you just enforced the positive about someone's post, & the facts, or your opinions re specifics....
    Thanks for your measured reply. I'd love to see more polite discourse/argument about SWMC. And I would agree with you normally - except - in my opinion, it's also important to give feedback to those who are unkind, dishonest, and/or distorting the truth (See Jonathan's very polite commentary to Rustie).

    I can understand those committed to being "above the fray" that this may sound bad. But turning one's back on rude, cruel, demeaning or insulting behavior/speech, or information that's simply not true, once more in my opinion, only increases the likelihood of more.

    And describing such words/behavior, and wondering about the origin of it, is not the same as being unkind oneself...having been walked on, verbally, far too many times in my life, at this time in my life I refuse to stand by and watch mean behavior go unchallenged anymore whether it's towards me - or someone/or something I admire. If more people stood up against such behavior in the kind of non-violent way I have, I think we'd have a better world...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-12-2015 at 05:56 PM.
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  36. TopTop #21
    Goat Rock Ukulele's Avatar
    Goat Rock Ukulele
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    I really like the idea of direct email to a patient and Netflix. There were times this year I had friends in the hospital that I wanted to support and get information to that when I went to see them were sleeping so I left rather them waking them. It would have been wonderful to be able to send them supportive messages and pass on information that they could access when they wanted. Netflix seems like a small thing, it certainly doesn't cost much. Watching an old movie like Guys and Dolls can really be a restful settling experience. I'm sure we all have movies like that.

    I'm wondering since the patients room will have internet access if it could be worked out with the Sonoma County Library to access their online book library from patients rooms. They have thousands of books that can be downloaded if you have a library card. Sometimes it's easier to listen with eyes closed if you are wiped out. My family members who were in the hospital really benefited from audio books.
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  38. TopTop #22
    Dorothy Friberg's Avatar
    Dorothy Friberg
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Well, not entirely elitist. Busloads of prisoners are imported from Marin county for procedures unknown to us. This was occurring at Palm Drive. In my opinion, this new/old hospital is "pouring money down a rat hole" and unfortunately it is OUR money. Who are the rats?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rossmen: View Post
    you are shooting the messenger. lots of good well intentioned people disagree about a complicated effort. a sebastopol hospital supported by the current healthcare district is geographically elitist. nobody knows if the effort will succeed and history does not bode well. truth hurts when high on hope.
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  39. TopTop #23
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Could you tell us where the information is on imported prisoners from Marin County for unknown procedures? Seems like there should be details on this somewhere. And why we'd have to import prisoners when we have plenty right here in Sonoma County jail is a mystery to me.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg: View Post
    Well, not entirely elitist. Busloads of prisoners are imported from Marin county for procedures unknown to us. This was occurring at Palm Drive. In my opinion, this new/old hospital is "pouring money down a rat hole" and unfortunately it is OUR money. Who are the rats?
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  41. TopTop #24
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    As a researcher, I was compelled to track the validity of your statement about "Busloads of prisoners are imported from Marin county for procedures unknown to us. This was occurring at Palm Drive". and am unable to find any reference to it. I'm a bloodhound by nature, but this one has me stumped! Hope you can clear up the mystery of where to find the reference.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg: View Post
    Well, not entirely elitist. Busloads of prisoners are imported from Marin county for procedures unknown to us. This was occurring at Palm Drive. In my opinion, this new/old hospital is "pouring money down a rat hole" and unfortunately it is OUR money. Who are the rats?
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  43. TopTop #25
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shandi: View Post
    As a researcher, I was compelled to track the validity of your statement about "Busloads of prisoners are imported from Marin county for procedures unknown to us. This was occurring at Palm Drive". and am unable to find any reference to it. I'm a bloodhound by nature, but this one has me stumped! Hope you can clear up the mystery of where to find the reference.
    Shandi,

    In the past, Palm Drive had a contract with San Quentin for certain diagnostic procedures. This contract lapsed well before the hospital closed and SWMC does not anticipate providing care to San Quentin inmates in the future. I believe that Marin General is now providing these services.

    Having said this, almost all hospitals provide care to incarcerated patients at one time or another with security being provided by the jail and I believe that Sutter currently has a contract to serve Sonoma County jail inmates. Some hospitals even create special wards with higher security for this purpose when they are close to a major jail or prison.

    I will add that to my knowledge, there was never a single incident with inmates in the hospital, which is not something we can say about the general public.

    As with a lot of things, this rumor is based partly on fact and mostly on fiction.

    Dan
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  45. TopTop #26
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Thanks Dan, I really appreciate your response. It makes sense that prisoners would be seen in hospitals for things that their infirmary couldn't provide. My concern was that the prisoners might be "used" for procedures they hadn't given permission for. What is the "rumor" you speak of that's based partly on fact, but mostly fiction?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan: View Post
    In the past, Palm Drive had a contract with San Quentin for certain diagnostic procedures. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-13-2015 at 12:57 PM.
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  46. TopTop #27
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shandi: View Post
    ... My concern was that the prisoners might be "used" for procedures they hadn't given permission for. What is the "rumor" you speak of that's based partly on fact, but mostly fiction?
    I can assure you that no one would ever have been "used" for procedures they hadn't given permission for. I have heard from nurses that inmates were universally grateful for the care they received.

    The rumor you responded to was that 'busloads' of prisoners were being treated. This was only an occasional event with a few inmates.

    Dan
    Last edited by Barry; 06-13-2015 at 12:58 PM.
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  48. TopTop #28
    rossmen
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    my gut says it will fail again. logic also has powerful warnings. what we lose is more money. swmc has its chance thanks to a democratic process, and the fundraising seems to be slowing short of the initial goal. cheer lead all you want, i enjoy throwing pie in the face of fools, being the most foolish one of all ; )


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Gail Raborn: View Post
    ...Sure, no one can guarantee success - but trying to destroy it without giving it a chance seems to me not only very negative, but silly. Why kill it before it's had a chance to prove itself?...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-13-2015 at 12:59 PM.
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  50. TopTop #29
    nancypreb's Avatar
    nancypreb
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Dan, is there a place where the public can view the business plan, the proposed budget, projections, etc. This seems to be a battle between sales pitch vs. numbers. And lets not pretend that an American/western market for your software is not going to be an extremely lucrative return on your philanthropic investment, compared to a medical center in the Philippines. Just tell everyone that you're planning to make a sh*t ton of $$$ as a result of SCMC using your software as a beta test for the American marketplace. You've already made money on your software, but you stand to make a whole bunch more via SCMC. That's fair, so long as the business plan for SCMC works. It's not that you HAVE to, but what does it hurt to just fess up? Why is everyone dancing around this?! And you'll probably tell me I'm way off base and totally wrong, but that's what this all smells like to me- if nothing else, know that this is the perception that is standing in the way of your sales pitch....anyone else?!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rossmen: View Post
    my gut says it will fail again. logic also has powerful warnings. what we lose is more money. swmc has its chance thanks to a democratic process, and the fundraising seems to be slowing short of the initial goal. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-13-2015 at 12:59 PM.
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  51. TopTop #30
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg: View Post
    Well, not entirely elitist. Busloads of prisoners are imported from Marin county for procedures unknown to us. This was occurring at Palm Drive. In my opinion, this new/old hospital is "pouring money down a rat hole" and unfortunately it is OUR money. Who are the rats?
    sorry, that's baffling. There are implications I just don't understand. I'm not sure what you're objecting to - secret experiments on prisoners? caring for the indigent? laundering money?
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