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  1. TopTop #31
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Nancy,

    The business plan with financial projections is here:

    https://sonomawesthealth.org/wp-cont...04_09_2015.pdf

    Having two left feet, I have never been a good dancer (much to Joan's dismay) so I am not "dancing around the subject."

    We determined long ago that the US market for Electronic Medical Records is dominated by a number of Billion Dollar companies and would take much more money than we have to break into. (Having one implementation does not get you into a market.) Think of it like starting a new car company, you don't get there by building one car no matter how cool the car is. (The fact that Tesla has survived is a miracle that took many hundreds of millions and Elan Musk to lead.)

    I won't argue that there is no benefit to implementing at SWMC because we have already benefitted by getting to know the doctors requirements better and improving the software in some areas as a result. If we make 'a sh*t ton of $$$' will it be because of one implementation in the US, or all the work we have been doing around the world and the years of development? If SWMC fails, as some people believe it will, it will be a black eye for EHRI, not a big success so how does this work in our favor? I find it a bit humorous that the same people, who argue that SWMC can't possibly succeed, claim that EHRI will make a lot of money from the success.

    As to whether SWMC will be successful over the long term, we can all argue the hypothetical until we are blue in the face but time will soon tell the real story. No one has ever pretended that reopening our hospital was going to be easy and I can honestly say it has been extremely challenging on many fronts but the many people who have been engaged are making it happen.

    I heard there is a movie out with you as the star.
    Where can we see it?

    Dan
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb: View Post
    Dan, is there a place where the public can view the business plan, the proposed budget, projections, etc. This seems to be a battle between sales pitch vs. numbers. ...!
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  3. TopTop #32
    Dianala's Avatar
    Dianala
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    I have been reading the latest critiques with a heavy sigh, as few people get to see what is happening at the hospital to insure that it will open with a different model for success. Everyone there has been working above and beyond normal (what is normal anyway?), and it is a very complex project just to get through the many pieces that are building related, software development, team development, new programs and integrating new health models.

    I have been on the recruiting side of life at SWMC, and I tell candidates and new hires that we are dealing with a 5000 piece puzzle, not 500... During orientations, I say something like 'this is not for the faint of heart and it will take everyone's effort and commitment to open the hospital and keep it open'. The excitement from the new people hired, and soon to come, is strong and energizing. Aside from that, Dan has been there every day including weekends working tirelessly (sometimes I see the fatigue in his body, but his commitment remains strong).

    The truth is that even if Dan did make tons of $$ from software sales? (see his recent reply), he would probably give quite a bit of it to worthy charitable projects and organizations.

    Can we let this series of negative comments about the failure of the hospital rest for awhile? We need all the positive energy we can get to move through the final stages for opening the hospital. Come to a Board meeting if you want to know more. The schedule should be on the Web site: www.sonomawesthealth.org. We know this has never been done before and there are many risks, and the rewards will become apparent over time.
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  5. TopTop #33
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Dianna,

    The focus on me is just a distraction dreamed up by people who want to kill the hospital.
    Next week, they will be attacking someone/something else.

    Having said that, it creates an opportunity to dialogue with the community and provide useful information instead of rumors. Rusty, for example, had a lot of good questions about billing the uninsured that are complex, worthy of discussion and important for the community to know. The questions about up charges for private rooms and such are important to make clear as well. The questions about treating inmates were also important to address.

    If you cast the world into good guys and bad guys, it is easy to think you are among the good guys and that all good guys will think like you do. If, on the other hand, we all look like the imperfect beings that we are, life is a lot more interesting and the opportunity for dialogue is much more present. I like to remind myself that Nixon dialogued with Mao, Churchill with Stalin, Mandela with De Klerk and Martin Luther King with Bull Conner (though without much success.) I figure that if these leaders could talk to their adversaries and create breakthroughs, certainly we should be able to do the same right here in Mudville.

    I still believe that when the dust clears, we will all be working together...you may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. John Lennon said that. I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours...Bob Dylan said that. I have no intention of dying rich so the Infernal Revenue Service can fund more guns and bombs...I said that.

    Dan
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  7. TopTop #34
    nancypreb's Avatar
    nancypreb
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Thanks for the link, Dan. I think its very helpful for many of us who are interested and concerned but may not have the time to go to all the community and board meetings (busy being movie stars and all...). And I'd like to say that criticism and skepticism, "negativity" as it's called, is not necessarily a bad thing in my view. Much like your software development, it's the challenges that lead to better results, no?! Just like a positive attitude lends to good health, but false hope is never a good practice. Balance is everything- isn't that the "Sebastopol way?" So I hope that those with the abundance of optimism and energy can embrace the "negativity" so as to better our understanding and guide us all towards a realistic prognosis. (Alright, I'll get off my yoga mat now.)

    As for the business of medical advancements, all I can say is that I have a little (and I truly mean, just a little) familiarity with how difficult it can be to get important and necessary procedures and advancements approved in the US. I know this because of one Dr. Ruben Quintero who had to perform his case studies in Venezuela in order to expedite approval for his innovative procedures here in the US; a procedure that benefited my family (the first ever to have been performed on identical triplets). It is through the veil of this experience that I, like others, don't buy the purely philanthropic motive, but rather a smart business opportunity. And that's totally fine. Make $$$, a sh^t ton, in fact. I wish I had the brain to develop such software. Kuddos to you!

    It's just that when we're talking about motives, up against a history that involved in-fighting and strife over a perceived "conflict of interest," that's what a huge segment of the community sees; not a bleeding heart millionaire in blue jeans painting walls, but rather a software developer who's at the helm again, and who stands to make significant personal financial gain, even despite the success/failure of the hospital itself. Truly, no judgement, just putting it out there... this is part of the problem in the public perception which leads to the skepticism in the long-term viability of the plan for the hospital. I'm only being this frank because I know you can handle it.

    And yes, it appears that I am in a movie, of which I guess you could call me the star. I think it's more accurate, though, to say I'm the star of my own life, about which a movie happens to have been made. Interestingly, in the first three minutes of the film, I talk about health care and how we didn't have it, and how significant that is for those of us who live in the rural outskirts of town. I know first hand how important this facility is for our rural community. I'll never forget driving my mother to Palm Drive as she was dying in the passenger seat of my truck. There was no point in calling 911. They weren't going to get to us any faster than I could get her into town. I can only imagine if I had to drive another 20 minutes to Santa Rosa. Instead of dropping off a dying woman with hope, I would have been dropping off a corpse in despair.

    I, like EVERYBODY, wants this hospital to succeed, because it needs to. But you do lose me when you pitch rooms with a view, Netflix, and an organic menu. I just want to know that the numbers work and that the hospital is going to be there the next time I find a loved one writhing on the bathroom floor in pain. And whether you make another couple million doing it, or are taking the position of a philanthropic saint, I don't care; as long as it works for the long term.

    And because you asked ... the film is called "On Her Own" and will be playing tomorrow at the Roxie in SF (part of SF Docfest), however it's sold out so they've scheduled an encore screening on July 2, then at the Arclight Theater in Hollywood on July 13th, then back here at the Rialto in August as part of the SCA's "Best of the Fest" series. We do have a distributor now, so probably in a year's time your patients will be able to watch it from the comfort of their hospital beds on Netflix.

    Good luck to all of you who have worked so hard to reopen our hospital! Even by virtue of criticism, you have our support.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan: View Post
    Nancy,
    The business plan with financial projections is here:
    https://sonomawesthealth.org/wp-cont...04_09_2015.pdf
    ...
    I heard there is a movie out with you as the star.
    Where can we see it?
    Dan
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  9. TopTop #35
    theindependenteye's Avatar
    theindependenteye
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    >>>my gut says it will fail again.<<<

    I'd have that checked. You're probably okay, but you never know.
    -Conrad
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  11. TopTop #36
    Dianala's Avatar
    Dianala
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    I appreciate that you keep the dialogue going, I am affected by the tone more than the questions. Also, I just want to provide a different perspective in this thread...
    Peace out,
    Diana

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan: View Post
    ...Having said that, it creates an opportunity to dialogue with the community and provide useful information instead of rumors. Rusty, for example, ...
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  13. TopTop #37
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Thanks for questioning the "money down the rat hole" part. I got sidetracked with the "busloads of prisoners" part.
    Good catch on the other mystery implication....



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by podfish: View Post
    sorry, that's baffling. There are implications I just don't understand. I'm not sure what you're objecting to - secret experiments on prisoners? caring for the indigent? laundering money?
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  14. TopTop #38
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Nancy,

    There are no guarantees of long term success with anything but the numbers look good and there is a bed shortage in the county now that we did not figure into the plan. If you want to stay out of hospitals I'd stay off that motorcycle. I gave up my 53 Indian Chief after too many near death experiences.

    Dan
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  16. TopTop #39
    Peacetown Jonathan's Avatar
    Investigative Reporter

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Responding to Nancy's comment below:

    A "huge segment" of our population does NOT see it this way.

    This is how a very small number of politically powerful and manipulative people see it, and these are the malicious falsehoods they continue to spread. They seem to have the ear of some vocal members of the community, including you.

    What is our collective reality is that this sacrifice of opening the SWMC, in dollars and time and effort, has earned and deserves a chance. And whether it succeeds or not, it will not cost taxpayers a single dime extra than if it was not attempted. Hence the mystery of why this vendetta against Dan Smith and the hospital continues. Someday, I hope, this will be revealed to the public, whose interest and support is clearly behind the hospital reopening.

    What a "huge segment" of us truly see, Nancy, is a group of hard working people and a dedicated philanthropic couple sacrificing a great deal of time and money to save lives in our community by restoring an emergency room and hospital service that will again serve us, our families, and our neighbors.

    And people like you complaining about it.

    Quote It's just that when we're talking about motives, up against a history that involved in-fighting and strife over a perceived "conflict of interest," that's what a huge segment of the community sees; not a bleeding heart millionaire in blue jeans painting walls, but rather a software developer who's at the helm again, and who stands to make significant personal financial gain, even despite the success/failure of the hospital itself. Truly, no judgement, just putting it out there.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2015 at 11:01 AM.
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  18. TopTop #40
    ywv's Avatar
    ywv
    Supporting Member

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Shandi: View Post
    As a researcher, I was compelled to track the validity of your statement about "Busloads of prisoners are imported from Marin county for procedures unknown to us. This was occurring at Palm Drive". and am unable to find any reference to it. I'm a bloodhound by nature, but this one has me stumped! Hope you can clear up the mystery of where to find the reference.
    FYI - Palm Drive Hospital had a contract with San Quentin prison, to provide outpatient/day surgery procedures on inmates. This was a money generator for the hospital.

    They would arrive on Thursday afternoon on bus vans with guards. I was at the hospital in the outpatient/day surgery rooms on Thursday's and would watch their arrival. It was a aged population. I was impressed by the respect and gentleness the guards treated them with.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2015 at 11:02 AM.
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  20. TopTop #41
    Tinkerbell's Avatar
    Tinkerbell
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    I know from personal experience that inmates of San Quentin were regularly brought to Palm Drive Hospital for colonoscopies and various other procedures. My observation was that there were approximately 5 or 6 inmates at a time, and almost as many guards. These guards explained to me that San Quentin authorities brought inmates to different hospitals so that it could not be predicted where they were going to be transported, and therefore avoid a breakout. (I was a regular IV patient at Palm Drive, and on those days I was not permitted into the regular IV room by prison guards, who explained this procedure to me. On these occasions, I was sent to other, smaller rooms for my IV.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2015 at 11:03 AM.
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  22. TopTop #42
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan: View Post
    ...And whether it succeeds or not, it will not cost taxpayers a single dime extra than if it was not attempted. ...
    Jonathan,

    While I resent paying for Palm Drive with my property taxes, and I will never use the facility, I sincerely hope this current incarnation will succeed. If, after the appropriate amount of time, it fails to succeed, will you run up the white flag and say OK, enough? The price of failure should be failure. How many times do we have to fail?
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2015 at 11:04 AM.
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  24. TopTop #43
    nancypreb's Avatar
    nancypreb
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    As a child, I grew up with a someone who had a pretty severe case of aphasia. As his translator, whether at family dinners or at the DMV, I learned very early on in life to not clench onto solitary words too hard, but rather listen for whole thoughts and meaning. It helped to expedite what was otherwise a rather difficult and exhausting process. Here on Wacco, however, I'm learning that it is a skill that is either under-appreciated or simply not shared as multiple people seems to gloss over whole thoughts for the sake of identifying and macerating one single solitary word; elite, huge, poor (that's from a different thread).

    I don't know if you noticed Jonathan, but Dan and I actually have a very easy and respectable repartee, even in the face of dissent, because we know each other. We've been on the same and opposite sides of the table together. Both of us have been the subjects of villainization as much as we have been touted as pillars within our community; for very different reasons, but framed by public opinion, both good and bad, none-the-less. I admire your cheerleading for Dan, but it does seem to cloud your ability to listen beyond words and glean sensibility and valuable meaning. At least Dan has the capacity to validate concerns, interpretations, and general community feedback, even if he may disagree with it. You, however, appear to want to get into a quantitative pissing match over "who's huge is huger?!" If your finger was on the pulse of such a huge "huge," I'd like to think you'd be sitting on our city council right now. But maybe you're right, Jonathan. Maybe your huge is indeed that much bigger than my huge, so I'll go ahead and downgrade to "significant." Now, if my "huge" wasn't at least "significant," why there'd be no reason for you to have your speedos in a bunch, now would there?!

    You can't ask for community feedback, but then dismiss people as mere mouthpieces for a small faction of politically powerful mastermind manipulators. At the very least (especially considering all the cheerleading you seem to be doing), afford others autonomy over their own opinions and perceptions- right, wrong, aligned or misaligned. As someone who sought the role of community leadership, take these opportunities to provide clarity and understanding.

    You act like its a mystery why people are skeptical. I was simply pointing out that it's no mystery. Take a millionaire, add a software program, divide by a multi-million dollar investment in the field to which his software applies, subtract the philanthropic angle, and multiply by a history of conflict based on a "conflict of interest," and now you have the recipe for skepticism. Mystery is solved! Dan already knows this, so does a "significant" segment of this community. I just haven't seen it articulated in no-uncertain terms, so I just thought I'd go ahead and do the nasty myself. Dan can at least pick up the baton and give jovial advice on how to maintain a sound and healthy body. You on the other hand....

    And this idea that in order to be supportive you can't scrutinize or be critical is how we got here in the first place....and then AGAIN! It's like saying, just trust your government- the Congress only wants what's best for the people, there's no special interests....and everything would be just fine if only you'd people stop being so damn judgmental and critical. But now, in that context, it doesn't ring quite right to the liberal ear, now does it?!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan: View Post
    R...A "huge segment" of our population does NOT see it this way.

    This is how a very small number of politically powerful and manipulative people see it, ...

    What a "huge segment" of us truly see, Nancy, is a group of hard working people and a dedicated philanthropic couple sacrificing a great deal of time and money to save lives in our community ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2015 at 11:10 AM.
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  26. TopTop #44

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Hey Dan,

    I've been busy but I wanted to respond. You are correct to conclude that I wish Jim Horn had been elected to one of the two openings on the district board. Requesting a sound financial assessment and business plan in my opinion was very reasonable while running two insiders from the Foundation struck me as stacking the deck. That having been said how do you conclude that I wish the hospital had stayed closed? Is it the fact that I question the merits of your plan and that means I want the hospital closed? This is irrational. Further I don't understand why you think anyone would actually want the hospital to stay closed, what would be the point?

    We have both traversed the road of sarcasm in this thread. When coming from you I did not interpret it as a personal attack. Was I wrong, were you attacking me? To establish my position it is not necessary to attack you, my observations are clear and valid. If the language of truth is disturbing to you then I am sorry.

    There are many who still question the viability, the motives and the wisdom of this hospital plan as it has been presented. In the spirit of community I would think that the architects of the plan would want to do all they can to lay those concerns to rest.

    I appreciate your answering my questions and more importantly your doing so because it might be helpful to others. The truth is that is exactly why I have been asking these questions and presenting these various areas of concern, because I think the information is valuable to our community.

    Thank you for the explanation regarding the applicable rate that will be used for uninsured patients. That sounds reasonable and fair and is an important gesture in helping those in need.

    With respect to the “additional services”, I'm not following the logic.

    1) How do you expect to provide organic meals at no significant added cost? I can not go to a grocery store and buy any organic edibles without seeing a significant added cost over commercially grown food.

    2) Private rooms vs dual occupancy rooms - doesn't that reduce your potential revenues by half thereby indirectly adding a significant cost?

    3) Additional revenues generated through better care and patient experience, in theory, is a good strategy but it does not account for the obvious fly in the ointment – Kaiser, the number one insurer in the state. This single factor, Kaiser and its highly competitive edge, has been a huge player in the closure of many small community hospitals. How does SWMC expect to overcome this obstacle?


    Regarding all the chatter on the elite hot button issue – I was not the one who turned the single passing comment, ("creating a high-end elitist medical facility catering to the wealthy") into the focal point and ultimately a distraction from the objective of this thread, the hospital. You picked this up, incorrectly, as a personal swipe at you and from there the avalanche began.

    I have allowed myself to be taken down this rat hole only in an attempt to clarify to all of those who don't understand the concept, that you are in fact self-evidently an elite – period. You and your family and friends are the ones who have attached a negative, insulting connotation to that undeniable reality.

    You ask what does your superior wealth have to do with the hospital? That too is obvious and undeniable. It is in fact your elite position in this community that affords you the ability to influence, as you have, the reopening of our hospital. Would I want someone who has no money leading the effort? In my opinion that is the wrong question. Some people with no money have accomplished huge social change and community betterment. I think transparency and zero conflict of interest are more important than money.


    And while we're on the subject of transparency and conflict of interest I think it fair to address a few points that you have been reluctant to talk about. You said that you have “no way of knowing whether EHRI will ever benefit from the implementation of HarmoniMD at SWMC”. You are a smart businessman Dan and your words, taken literally to the letter are true. You certainly can't know for a fact what will or will not happen in the future, but you can surmise and project, and I suspect you did. Isn't that how the hospital plan was developed, by conjecture and projection?

    Your HarmoniMD software was federally certified in 2011 with OffSiteCare listed as the vendor. It appears that over 3 years later you still have not placed your product into one single U.S. medical facility. It's not uncommon or unscrupulous for a company to offer a give-away as a means to achieve market visibility and/or credibility, especially in a highly competitive industry. When viewed in this light the potential benefit to all HarmoniMD associated entities and persons is apparent.

    As per your assessment, start up costs of this system are well over one million dollars with ongoing maintenance and other services running at around $100,000 per year. There are currently over 5,000 hospitals in the U.S., I'm sure you've done the math. If several years down the road you captured only 1% of the market as a result of SWMC's testimony this would prove to have been a very effective and worthwhile R&D expenditure with or without the long term success of the hospital. Sure it's a tough nut to crack but well worth any and all efforts.


    So, is there a problem with this? Only if the success of the hospital was a secondary consideration behind the success of your private enterprise – that my friend is conflict of interest. We may never know for certain but it is your lack of transparency and obscurantism that is alarming to me and perhaps others as well. I realize that the hospital is a done deal and as the old saying goes, time will tell.

    If in the end we find ourselves once again without a hospital and functionally having subsidized your multimillion dollar private enterprise I hope that at the very least we as a community will be more discerning the next time a fast moving train mesmerizes us in its headlights. I for one will be keeping a close watch on the story that unfolds. I sincerely hope my concerns are unfounded.


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan: View Post
    Rustie,

    Rusty, I think you made clear that you wished Jim Horn got elected and the hospital stayed closed. ... Attacking me is a convenient method of trying to establish your position ...

    ...We don't believe that the 'additional services' will add significant cost and their value will be in better care and a more pleasant patient experience, which will in turn create additional revenue. ...

    OffSiteCare, Dr. Gude's telemedicine company will be paid for providing medical services to SWMC. ...

    I have no way of knowing whether EHRI will ever benefit from the implementation of HarmoniMD at SWMC ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2015 at 11:21 AM.
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  28. TopTop #45

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Gail,

    To begin with I would like you to point out exactly where and when I was dishonest, distorting the truth, providing wrong information or sowing seeds of confusion. These are rather slanderous accusations you have made and I expect you to be able to back them up with hard facts.

    Secondly, what gives you the insight to determine that I have “no real desire to create true clarity for anyone concerned about payment options at SWMC”? Did it come from the same wisdom you tapped into when you dredged up the concept of “elite envy”?

    Regarding your comments that I was “rude, cruel, demeaning or insulting”, that's your opinion, you're entitled to it. If you have the stones to attempt to back your opinion up with some examples I would be interested in hearing what you have to say. In the meantime I suggest you get a dictionary and look up the word elite – there's nothing inherently evil or demeaning about it. You might also want to look up the word vendetta.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Gail Raborn: View Post
    Jonathan - thanks so much for your careful and thorough reply to Rustie's vendetta to discredit Dan, Joan and the new hospital ...show her as the horsefly that she is, wanting to cause pain, with no real desire to create true clarity ...

    Rustie just seems to want to sow more seeds of confusion, wrong info, and argument. I wonder about her motives: and how much her "elite envy" plays into this? ...
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Gail Raborn: View Post
    ... it's also important to give feedback to those who are unkind, dishonest, and/or distorting the truth (....
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Gail Raborn: View Post
    ...I can understand those committed to being "above the fray" that this may sound bad. But turning one's back on rude, cruel, demeaning or insulting behavior/speech, or information that's simply not true, once more in my opinion, only increases the likelihood of more....
    Last edited by Barry; 06-14-2015 at 11:30 AM.
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  29. TopTop #46
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Apologies to poets everywhere...

    A Salute to the Impossible.

    It would be easy to call it impossible.
    The pundits say so and the politicians hope it.
    (The former hate the tax and the latter grope for it.)

    The engineer has studied and declared it true.
    The consultants who closed it reported it too.
    How can they be wrong with all of their writs?

    The bureaucrats have given their blessing.
    To just let it die without even messing.
    It doesn’t hurt them so why would they care?

    It would be easier to let someone else do it.
    Giving up is clearly the most pleasant place to sit.
    We could sip chardonnay and dine on steak rare.

    And think of the money we’d all save.
    Enough for a yacht, or a villa in Cave.
    Quitting now is most fiscally sound.

    And then there are those who question our motive.
    We must be up to something bad they are sure.
    While declaring theirs purer than pure.

    And think of how happy they would all be if we quit.
    ‘We told you so! It never could work one bit!’
    (Quitting now is the most accommodating thing.)

    It failed twice before they all claim.
    Aren’t the past and the future always the same?
    ‘Certainly nothing changes ever’ we’ll sing.

    But wait just a moment, now how would we cope.
    When our neighbor collapsed or suffered a stroke.
    When the child next door died en route.

    When our doctor left town.
    Or closed her practice down.
    Or simply gave up after so many years.

    When we quit before even starting.
    When we could have, and should have, but didn’t.
    Just because of our fears.

    There really are things much worse than a failure.
    Not trying, not giving, not fighting for right.
    Giving up too soon and taking flight.

    We have to remember that everything good.
    Starts with intention, momentum and work.
    Nothing comes easy to something that’s new.

    Anything important will attract the detractors.
    So Something Wonderful can only be born.
    With effort and perseverance beyond the norm.

    So let’s do something new.
    That’s never been done.
    Certainly, we won’t be the only one.

    Let’s invent penicillin, sulfa and airplanes.
    And radio, radar, light bulbs and more.
    Let’s build a computer and a polio cure.

    Let’s climb El Capitan by the hardest route.
    And sail round the world in a tiny boat.
    Or dive to the bottom of every ocean.

    Let’s do the impossible while we still can.
    We’ll do it together, each woman and man.
    It won’t be easy, and it won’t happen fast.

    But maybe with effort.
    We can build something to last.
    Something to serve and care for us all.

    Something much better than all of our fears.
    Something that’s taller than previous years.
    For everyone living, let’s open our hospital!
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  30. TopTop #47
    Serendipity's Avatar
    Serendipity
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    It's so weird how when someone wants to do good tries and gets a backlash of energy in reply. I mean, how hard is it to try to understand and be tolerant?
    A: Very hard if it rubs you in the wrong way.

    I think it's a worthy endeavor even if it's not my thing.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan: View Post
    Responding to Nancy's comment below:...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-15-2015 at 11:53 AM.
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  32. TopTop #48

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Jonathan,

    I think it would be a good idea if you get your reading and language chops a little better honed. Whether you like it or not there is a clear distinction between elite and elitist. You can twist and turn all you want but the fact remains, as is evidenced in writing, that I did not refer to Dan, his cronies, or their efforts to reopen the hospital as elitist. I suggest you refer to your dictionary and understand what it is you are attempting to write about.

    I'm guessing that truth in journalism is not your forte. You state, “Then she complains that the non-ER facilities might make money for the hospital and doctors, to help subsidize the emergency room.” First of all you will find NO mention of doctors in any context in any of my posts on this thread. Secondly, I clearly stated that I have NO problem picking up the hospital losses via elective surgeries. My concern was questioning the viability of this as a successful long term business plan. Here's my quote: “it appears to me, after parsing through your eloquent promotional post, that you expect to take a loss on your “patient-centric” hospital and hope to make up the difference attracting wealthy elites to your “specialty institutes” for elective surgeries. If this is in fact your game plan I do not personally have a problem with this agenda. On the other hand I do have concerns regarding the viability over the long haul of this concept.” What is it that makes you incapable of getting the facts straight?

    Please Jonathan show me where I suggested that the new hospital will “squander our tax dollars”. What I said was that as one of many taxpayers who will be contributing to the funding of this project I think it fair that Dan provide us with his projected financial statements as well as the basis for those projections in an effort to demonstrate the soundness of the hospital plan as a long term model. How the hell do you get squandering our tax dollars out of that?

    Apparently in your world “prove the plan works” is a “bullshit” concept. I'm guessing you've been sold many bridges in your lifetime. For the sake of clarity no one can prove anything that has yet to happen. That having been said it is not unreasonable or bullshit to request basic documentation demonstrating how a plan was derived. I expect intelligent people to ask questions and request validation of claims made. More importantly however I never made a request to 'prove the plan works'. My concerns have been specifically focused on the long term vs short term objectives of the hospital. What study and analysis, if any, has been done to respond to the question of long term sustainability?

    I take particular offense at your conflict of interest perspective. According to you noticing a conflict of interest is “absurd and hateful”. Or is that your characterization only when applied to people you know? For instance if I were to point out the conflict of interest issue when Obama appointed a Monsanto executive as the FDA Deputy Commissioner for Foods would you slam me for being absurd and hateful? Conflict of interest is something that you can draw a clear and direct line to. If I'm in a position to exercise power &/or authority, and my primary interest may be influenced by my secondary interest, then that is a conflict of interest. The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of any occurrence of impropriety. Your disregard for the obvious presence of a conflict of interest in regards to Dan and the shaping of SWMC is no less negligent than it would be in the Monsanto/FDA example. If we allow ourselves to become indifferent and inattentive when conflicts of interest are present we undermine our ability to maintain our common interest as the primary motivating force over personal gain. The result, greater corruption and inequality.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan: View Post
    I appreciate Dan taking the time to provide a point by point response, and for his and Joan's generosity in sacrificing so much time and money to restore an emergency room for ALL of us in West County.

    Rustie appears to have taken on the baton for the marathon vendetta to malign Dan Smith ...

    Last edited by Barry; 06-15-2015 at 02:36 PM.
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  33. TopTop #49
    nancypreb's Avatar
    nancypreb
     

    Re: Article: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Really?! Seriously?!

    I'm glad you prefaced this with an apology. But whatever happened to "Think of it like starting a new car company, you don't get there by building one car no matter how cool the car is."

    Fine. I concede. Let's all hold hands now...."Kum ba yah, my lord, kum ba yah. Kum ba yah, my lord, kum ba yah...." Oh yeah, there it is.... I'm starting to feel the magic!!

    Namaste

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan: View Post
    Apologies to poets everywhere...

    A Salute to the Impossible....
    Last edited by Barry; 06-15-2015 at 02:36 PM.
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  34. TopTop #50
    Peacetown Jonathan's Avatar
    Investigative Reporter

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Rustie,

    Please spare us your absurd twists and turns to weasel out of speaking of "Dan and his cronies," and the "elite" new hospital and the tired rationales that we have heard for a year now about why the hospital should not be reopened.

    As you have a hard time understanding why people might object to terms like "cronies," then I would suggest that it is your "language chops" that need to get "a little better honed."

    I know quite a bit about journalism, and conflicts of interest. You can link to the JonathanGreenberg.com website with some of the articles and references to the books that I have published during my 35 year career as a professional journalist, Rustie. Please share with us a hyperlink to the work that you have published and let the public compare our public records on who has more experience reporting facts.

    Comparing Dan Smith to Monsanto's FDA appointee is ridiculous. As ridiculous as this charade that Dan Smith is doing this to make money. The argument that Dan Smith has any real conflict of interest is a central part of the deflective strategy started more than a year ago to make the reopening effort about Dan, and not about the urgent need to keep an emergency room in our community.

    To suggest that Dan's intention and motivation for writing checks for millions of dollars and spending thousands of hours of uncompensated time and neglecting his software business because he is planning to make money from reopening the hospital is ridiculous.

    It is an insult to a courageous community leader who has worked insanely hard to his neighbors have the emergency room and hospital that has served us for 70 years. And an insult to the scores of people who have volunteered time and energy and money to the Herculean effort of reopening this hospital.

    The second ridiculous charade that you perpetuate, echoing Jim Horn and the past Palm Drive Board members hell bent on keeping our hospital closed, is that the plan is incomplete. Or that it is flawed. Or that it in irresponsible. Or that it is too short on details. Or that it is a sketch of a plan. Or...or...whatever it takes to argue that it ought not be tried.

    Hundreds, and perhaps thousands of hours, have gone into preparing this plan and revising it many times. There have been negotiations and meetings with the public, and the elected members of our District, and revisions based upon comments and input made during that deliberative process. The license for the hospital had a one year suspension on it, which has been extended for a little longer recently due only to the imminent opening. Without approving of and proceeding with this plan, the hospital would never have reopened. This argument, that "of course we support reopening the hospital but the plan is flawed" was the strategy used by Jim Horn and the political bosses of our community to close the hospital and oppose its reopening. As I mentioned earlier, Jim Horn recently told the Board that he did not think the hospital should be reopened until the bankruptcy was fully repaid. Given the suspended licensing timing, this would have meant never. Thanks to hundreds of us who campaigned to reopen the hospital, the voting public saw through this deceptive rhetoric ("prove the plan works"), and voted for a change in the Board majority.

    Then there is the issue of your concern for how your tax dollars will be spent. Where was your concern a year ago, when the purpose this tax was created for was locked up and the emergency room that served 60,000 of us was closed down? Where was your concern for the suffering of the seniors and sick and injured people forced to wait hours at Santa Rosa's overcrowded emergency rooms? Where was your concern about the lives of our neighbors that will inevitably be lost if this hospital remains shuttered?

    No, Rustie, your concern, and Nancy's, is that Dan Smith's software is untested. It's that the plan failed to convince Jim Horn and you that reopening the hospital could be proven viable. That the hospital might actually reopen and our emergency room might be restored and thousands of members of our community might be served by it and then, and then, and then what Rustie?

    What exactly are you and Nancy concerned with, anyway?

    Because despite the personal attacks on me, or Dan, or whomever you perceive to be your enemies for daring to want to see this hospital reopened, despite the ridiculous excuses that have been trotted out and discredited again and again during the past year, few of us understand why the prospect of reopening a new hospital with a life saving emergency room is something that well-meaning people would fight against.

    What makes you oppose this effort?

    Nobody is asking you to do anything, to work on the reopening, or to spend a single additional tax dollar on this beyond what you, like all of us, would be spending anyway for a closed hospital. The worst case scenario is that the emergency room and hospital reopens and it serves people for some time and then runs out of money and we are back where we started from.

    While the best case scenario, which many informed folks like me believe more likely, is that it does succeed. That lives are saved, that humanistic care returns for us, our families, and our neighbors, and that the most innovative, caring, safest small hospital in our country is built in our hometown.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    Jonathan,

    I think it would be a good idea if you get your reading and language chops a little better honed. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-15-2015 at 02:41 PM.
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  36. TopTop #51
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Thank you, Jonathan....

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan: View Post
    Rustie,

    Please spare us your absurd twists and turns ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-15-2015 at 02:42 PM.
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  38. TopTop #52
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Rustie,

    This response and others that you've made seem to show intelligent and rational thinking. Even those who don't agree on some levels, have to see the wisdom in your questions and requests. To me, it represents the kind of thinking that any substantial business would do, and as a local business, these findings/reports would be obviously available to the community that's supporting it. It's not brain surgery...


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    Jonathan,

    I think it would be a good idea if you get your reading and language chops a little better honed. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-15-2015 at 02:43 PM.
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  40. TopTop #53
    nancypreb's Avatar
    nancypreb
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    The other person I grew up with was a grandmother who'd smack you up side the back of the head for talking stupid! Then she'd hollar "DO YOU NEED YOUR HEAD CHECKED?!" Quickly followed by "BECAUSE I THINK YOU GOT A SCREW LOOSE!" You obviously did not grow up with someone of that influence, Jonathan. Thank god the hospital is opening because an MRI might be in order.

    Nobody on this thread is opposed to opening the hospital. Nobody has advocated for keeping it closed. It's very difficult to take you seriously, Jonathan, despite your self-proclamated intelligence, when you ask ridiculous rhetorical questions, only to answer them yourself with the actual response.

    "The worst case scenario is that the emergency room and hospital reopens and it serves people for some time and then runs out of money and we are back where we started from."

    THIS!!! THIS IS WHAT WE'RE OPPOSE TO!!!! Not success, not Herculean effort, not good-will, not the presence of a hospital or an emergency room that's going to serves 60,000 people, not any of the other ridiculousness you blather on about. And I won't speak on behalf of all the Wacco's who are PMing me saying "THANK YOU, NANCY! We're exhausted by the Jonathan and the Dan, and while I don't always agree with you... on this one, I totally do!!" No, I'll only speak for myself.... I'm opposed to the carte blanche pass you seem to advocate for; no scrutiny, no criticism, no skepticism, no inquiry. You ask questions and I'll dance (albeit, poorly) in circles and tell you just to think positive! I'm oppose to the "Who knows what the future holds? Here, here's a poem!" kind of responses. I'm oppose to "I'm smarter than you! Don't believe me?! Here's my curriculum vitae!" kind of journalism.

    Opening the hospital is the easy part, Jonathan.... keeping it open has proven to be the challenge. I support the opening of SWMC 1,000%!! The problem for me is not in the WHAT, but in the HOW. I'm guessing that's other people's objection too. I'm very excited to see the hospital open!! But God help you, Jonathan, should we indeed run out of money, and Dan fails to pull out his check book, and we're back where we started. And if I'm still here 40 years from now, still wasting my time on Wacco, I will gladly....GLADLY.... advocate for a bronze bust of you and Dan to be set in the lobby. I promise.

    Is it clear now, Jonathan? Have I made myself PERFECTLY clear?! Now, from here on out, can we please just have normal, measured responses to the skepticism, criticism, inquiries, and the like?! Because doubt is normal....VERY NORMAL! If this is new news to you, check with your doctors who deal with fear and doubt from their patients every day, and YET still manage to maintain better bed-side manners than what you are displaying. You're role, Jonathan/Dan, is to ease those fears, have answers for the questions, not propagate dissent. And acknowledge that it is only the fool-hearty that will permit you to lead blindly.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan: View Post
    Rustie,

    ...why the hospital should not be reopened... the past Palm Drive Board members hell bent on keeping our hospital closed...

    No, Rustie, your concern, and Nancy's, is that Dan Smith's software is untested. It's that the plan failed to convince Jim Horn and you that reopening the hospital could be proven viable. That the hospital might actually reopen and our emergency room might be restored and thousands of members of our community might be served by it and then, and then, and then what Rustie?

    What exactly are you and Nancy concerned with, anyway?

    ... despite the personal attacks on me, or Dan, or whomever you perceive to be your enemies for daring to want to see this hospital reopened, despite the ridiculous excuses that have been trotted out and discredited again and again during the past year, few of us understand why the prospect of reopening a new hospital with a life saving emergency room is something that well-meaning people would fight against....

    What makes you oppose this effort?

    The worst case scenario is that the emergency room and hospital reopens and it serves people for some time and then runs out of money and we are back where we started from.

    Last edited by Barry; 06-15-2015 at 03:32 PM.
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  41. TopTop #54

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Once again Jonathan get out your dictionary – Crony: a long time close friend or companion.

    [Edit: Although Rustie's definition above matches the definition at Dictionary.com, Mirriam-Webster defines it as: " a close friend of someone; especially : a friend of someone powerful (such as a politician) who is unfairly given special treatment or favors". If we can't even get the dictionaries to agree, no wonder these two are fussing so much! Barry]

    Additionally, I have never suggested that the hospital should not be reopened. I don't believe I read that sentiment in anything that Nancy wrote either.

    Why do you keep positing the same accusations and asking the same questions that have already been addressed? One more time Jonathan, the facts, not that you seem to care much about those, are simply that I have questioned the long term viability of the current plan as it has been presented. I have also been very clear as to what I see the primary problem is – Kaiser. I didn't just make this up. In case you hadn't noticed this place actually exists and is the number one insurer in CA, number two in the nation. It appeared to me, by simply reading Nancy's posts, that her concern was also regarding the long haul. This reasonable question is complicated by the obvious conflict of interest that you and others seem to be blind to.

    You can yell, rant and rave all you want Jonathan but it doesn't change the fact; Dan has a conflict of interest, and by the way, so does Dr. Gude. Here's how this works:

    1) Dan & Dr. Gude were both on the Foundation Board and are currently on SWMC board.

    2) They were both architects of the hospital plan, inclusive of decisions regarding equipment and services that will be used at the facility.

    3) They both have companies that will be providing equipment and services to SWMC which in turn will provide them personal gain.

    Without a doubt this is a relationship where their secondary interest may influence their primary interest – period. Break out that dictionary Jonathan, this is a classic “conflict of interest” example.

    Like it or not there is in fact a very “real” conflict of interest here. Remember what I explained in my previous post to you: “the presence of a conflict of interest is independent of any occurrence of impropriety”? So as I see it there are a few areas of possible impropriety.

    1) if the software in question is inappropriate or inadequate – I don't believe anyone has raised this issue.

    2) if the hospital plan was short-sited thereby not providing the intended public service – hence our questioning of the long term model.

    Truth is if it weren't for this glaring conflict of interest and continued lack of transparency I would be more likely to “quietly” wait and see. That's what you want isn't it Jonathan – for that “substantial” faction of our community who has doubts to just be quiet? Problem is, as Nancy so eloquently put it, that's how we got here in the first place.

    You can scream as loud as you want Jonathan but that doesn't make your distortions of the facts suddenly become reality. I don't recall suggesting that Dan's sole purpose to reopen the hospital was to sell his software. That's your distortion. I personally believe that he genuinely wants to help his community and make wise investments of his time and money in the process. Is there a problem with that? No, the problem is lack of transparency. Dan is no fool, he sees the entire picture before you even get out of bed in the morning. Perhaps the outcome of all this contention is that Dan will realize that he might well garner the support of that “significant” faction as well if he were more transparent in his future ventures.

    I don't need a link to a website with my published works – I have never claimed to be a journalist or a published writer. The question here is not how much experience you have had reporting facts but rather how accurately you report them? When called upon to substantiate your inaccurate reporting and/or misuse of language you merely repeat your same diatribe with all the same inaccurate commentary, ramped up with more venom. Here are a few rules about ethical journalism:

    1) Respond quickly to questions about accuracy, clarity and fairness

    2) Acknowledge mistakes and correct them promptly and prominently.

    3) Avoid stereotyping, journalists should examine the ways their values and experiences may shape their reporting.

    4) Be vigilant and courageous about holding those with power accountable. Give voice to the voiceless.

    5) Support the open and civil exchange of views, even views they find repugnant.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan: View Post
    Rustie,

    Please spare us your absurd twists and turns to weasel out of speaking of "Dan and his cronies," ...
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  43. TopTop #55
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Closing the hospital was elitist! Opening it has taken generosity & a populist uprisi

    Nancy, you're another intelligent woman with rational statements. You and Rustie say things that need to be said. So, I appreciate your insights to help us see what's not being said in "what's wrong with this picture?".

    I'm working with an new organization that plans to get funding for a group home for the disadvantaged. The first item on their agenda is to get a realtor to check out land/properties that might be suitable. When I heard this, I had to force myself to remain calm, and not re-act. Instead, I did what I've done with clients when I had a business, and it was necessary to bridge the gap between their fantasy and reality. So, I said "O.K. let's say I'm a realtor, and I've just found an ideal spot for your project." What's the next step? That's all it took to get the message across, that some vital things were missing, like funds!, and a business plan for the group home. From what I understand, many realtors won't even show properties unless potential buyers are qualified. What was shocking is that the people who are involved in this are educated and intelligent, but have never been in business, or written a grant proposal. Their next step is to approach a bank for "seed money". I'm watching to see how far this gets without a well researched plan to detail expenses.

    Getting seed money for a local hospital may not need a well researched, and public business plan to get resident support, but it seems like a reasonable request from those who know the importance of it.


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb: View Post
    The other person I grew up with was a grandmother who'd smack you up side the back ...
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  44. TopTop #56
    Dustyg's Avatar
    Dustyg
     

    Sonoma West Hospital opening?

    I can't help but ask, is the hospital going to open or not? dustyg
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  45. TopTop #57
    Dorothy Friberg's Avatar
    Dorothy Friberg
     

    Re: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Well, perhaps you aren't paying $300/year in property taxes to support this fantasy.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Serendipity: View Post
    It's so weird how when someone wants to do good tries and gets a backlash of energy in reply. I mean, how hard is it to try to understand and be tolerant?
    A: Very hard if it rubs you in the wrong way.

    I think it's a worthy endeavor even if it's not my thing.
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  46. TopTop #58
    Dorothy Friberg's Avatar
    Dorothy Friberg
     

    Re: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    The object of language is communication, not semantics.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Rustie: View Post
    Jonathan,

    I think it would be a good idea if you get your reading and language chops a little better honed. ...
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  47. TopTop #59
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg: View Post
    The object of language is communication, not semantics.
    And the object of this thread is to discuss the re-opening of the hospital and the various considerations, which Rustie's questions and Dan's answers have been helpful to explore.

    Let's leave the various personal attacks and defenses go and return to the discussion of the hospital, including what was asked on another thread that I have merged into this one: What's the current thinking about when it will open? I heard a rumor of sometime in July...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-17-2015 at 12:40 PM.

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  48. TopTop #60
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: What’s New and Exciting About Sonoma West Hospital

    Last I looked, the hospital tax was $155.00 per parcel.

    Richard

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg: View Post
    Well, perhaps you aren't paying $300/year in property taxes to support this fantasy.
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